The Go-Rilla in the Room with Sebastian Jimenez

Hey, everybody, it's Jim Johnson here, the host of Contractor Radio, founder of Contractor Coach Pro, and the guy that just wants to see you do better. And I am pumped up. I actually have a guest on that's been a person that came into my life a little more than a year ago, about a year and a half ago. And I instantly liked him. Like, this was just one of those guys that comes along and you go.

I like that guy.

And the reason for that is he's hard driving. He's got a great idea. He's working more hours than anybody I know. I don't know if I could work for him at my age today, but when I was 20s and maybe early 30s, I'd be like, man, let's go. Let's get this. He brings in an immense amount of energy. He is the founder of Rilla Voice on the Forbes Next 1000. Listen. His name is Sebastian Jimenez. Welcome aboard, brother. Good to see you.

Hey, man, nice to see you.

Every single time I talk to you, I just get energized. I get, like, pumped up about things because you just have this way about you. Why is that? Like, why are you so excited about things?

My mom dropped me in the head as a baby. That screwed us some of the wiring, and nobody came to fix it. So now the wires are screwed up forever. So thank you, Mom.

That's pretty much my story. Same. My mom always said I must have dropped you on your head because you're not like any of the rest of them.

The way my mom tells the story is that I. I was like a little insane little baby Sebastian, right? Imagine just like insane Sebastian, but little baby Sebastian. And she walks into the room, and I'm like, standing on top of the crib. I, like, parkoured my way on top of the crib thing. And I looked at my mom, like, straight in the face. I looked at her. I was standing in front of the crib. I looked at her, and I looked at the floor. I looked at her and then I just jumped and kamikaze my head into the floor.

I wonder if you'll catch me.

And then my mother. But she says I did it to myself. I blame her. Still. Perfect.

Good. So, Sebastian, we don't interview too many people twice. We may have had three or four in the whole history of our show. But I wanted to bring you back in because it's been like a year since we interviewed you. Those of you that have not seen it, go back and look at it. It was like late June, early July sometime. And you can get the original story. But you've created this piece of software that analyzes the conversations that happen in the home between a salesperson and the homeowner.

Yes.

So bring us up to speed on what's happened with the last year with real a voice because there's been a lot that's gone on.

Wow. So, yeah, man. So we, at the time I did the interview, we just started. We just getting started with like the growth and just, just seeing the flywheel start cranking. And that was like June last year. And this year we've. We've basically, we've grown with like hundreds of customers. We have thousands of salespeople now using rela voice. That's like, you know, that's like some metrics, but the real thing that's happened and we feel this like, we feel this like very, you know, viscerally like, like we have become one of the fastest growing startups in the world right now. And by historical standards. And the reason why that's happened is that, you know, we cross a million dollars of annual recurring revenue, which is, you know, difficult for any business. But then we've been growing like 30% month over month, which is insane. Right? Like, just imagine like 30% month over month. It's just means that you're. You're doubling your business every three months, essentially. And so. And we see that. And so like, we see this. We raised some funding. It's like almost $4 million in funding from some really good funds. And. But, but what's like, yeah, investors are now like, everybody's like wanting to invest in Rilla. We literally. I was at an event that I was invited to speak at a panel as a panelist, and this investor showed up that I've been trying to get a meeting with me. He had a question from the crowd. He was like, hey, I had a question for Sebastian. Hey, Sebastian. This is so and so for so and so fun. We've been trying to give you money, man. Why don't you take our money? Everybody in the car was like, oh my God. And this was in. This was in habit. This was in habit. And so they got kicked out. This is very funny. And I went to meet with. I was like, okay, man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you guys. I'm gonna meet. It was so funny. So that's happening. It's. It's a, it's a. It's been a fun, fun time. Just a lot of growth. We're growing the team. I don't know if you guys See the other interview, I think I was at my apartment still, and we got a big office. And so, yeah, man, it's going good.

It's like the American dream story, right? Like, hey, I got something new, I got something innovative. It's different, it works and people want to get behind it. And we started in our apartment, now we've got like, you're in New York, right? Offices in New York are really cheap, I've heard.

Well, now they are because there's. Nobody wants the office space. So like everybody works from home. No. Yeah, nobody wants the office space. So we want it because you know how saying our culture is so like we, you know, have a pretty, you know, clear standards of operation. So yeah, it's actually, we got a really good deal on our office because it's like literally nobody's New York is popping. There's a lot of people in New York, but nobody wants to go back to the office except for crazy, crazy Sebastian here.

So. So let's talk about that a little bit. I get to hang around you quite a bit, whether you're at our top rep events or we. We cross paths at another event. And I've noticed it about you, but I want to hear you kind of talk about it. Like, how would you define the culture of Rilla voice?

The standard operating principle at Rilla is that we try to operate Rilla like a high speed reinforcement learner. Reinforcement learner is a machine learning algorithm that learns how to play a game by, you know, trying and failing millions of times and learning what not to do. And that's how a lot of the AI algorithms that, that, that are very popular, like GPT Chat has some sort of reinforcement learner built into it. Like when people say if they like the response or not. And so, and so this is. And the key about the algorithm is that it's very stupid. It actually doesn't know what the hell it's doing. It's not very talented, it's not very smart, a priori. So it doesn't have like a high iq. It actually has the IQ of like a, like a hot potato. It's like very dumb. But then what it does is.

Hold on a second, we gotta stop you for. Did you just say that like the company Real Voice has the IQ of a hot potato, but it's getting better?

Yes, but. Yes, exactly. So this goes into that. So it goes into how we think about intelligence. Right? And so what we try to do. So the reinforcement learner learns by just literally failing. And this, like, this is essentially this moron who doesn't know anything about anything starts playing a game and you see it like if you look UP Reinforcement Learner OpenAI video game, you'll see that at the first few times that it plays a game, it's like an idiot. It just like it just jumps out and it dies and it's like it's an idiot. It just doesn't know what it's doing. And then the millionth tribe that it plays, it's like, God damn, shit this, you know, wow. And then eventually it comes to a point that it actually becomes unbeatable and no human being can actually beat the thing at playing that game. Smarter human beings, more talented, cannot beat this thing. That's just like trying to optimize for failing and for learning from those failures and learning what not to do. And it just finds the optimal outcome to every. And it's ruthless. And sometimes it finds weird things that the human being would never think about because it's unafraid. It doesn't care about, about failing. It just, it doesn't feel shame. It doesn't feel it's ruthless. It just keeps failing and just starts and it fails again. And so the whole operating principle of real is we try to operate really like a high speed reinforcement learner. True intelligence is not in your head. It's in the world. Only find it.

But how does your team feel when you use the word ruthless?

Amazing. The people here, a lot of the people who interview, they say like, no, no, no, I don't want to work there. But the people who hear, I mean, they're, they're, they're all excited.

Yeah, yeah. You almost have to be in software. I mean, back in the day, I was in that, in that world and you had to have this attitude that our stuff and the way we think and the way we do things, the people we get are going to absolutely be the best and we won't. And they'll be the best when we bring them in. And they're not even anything yet. They haven't become what they're really going to be.

Yes.

I think that's super cool. So just so everybody's caught up, catch them up. What does real of voice do? We haven't even talked about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let me pull out my phone here. So when, if you're a roofing company, home services company, home remodeling company, if you're a company who has salespeople that go out and talk to customers or homeowners in their home, they're going to be going out here and recording their conversations from the Rilla Voice mobile app. And then we're going to be using AI to automatically transcribe, analyze and give them feedback to help them improve their sales and their conversations. And to help you as a business owner or a sales manager, do what we call virtual ride alongs, which essentially are 100 times more faster, better, cheaper than doing the traditional physical ride alongs where you can only coach one person at a time. With relay, you get to coach your entire team at the same time because you're basically everywhere at once without actually having to be there.

So we've got this app. I click a button and I can do it in a variety of different ways. Like I could just do it in the Rilla Voice app. I believe you guys have a lot of integrations as well.

That is correct, yes.

So I can click it there and this thing listens to me.

Yes.

And so it's, it's listening as if I was there as a sales manager.

That is correct. And it's actually a little bit better now, but yes, essentially.

So what does that mean? Like, what does that mean is better than the sales manager?

Well, with, with GPT Chat, when it came out, it basically revolute like it really. People, most people don't like, they don't.

Put in context what happened, what it is.

Yeah, yeah, like, like, like, like what, what just happened is like people are saying like, you know, there's like a quote that some Altman, the, the, the CEO of OpenAI, he said that one of his friends told him like essentially you just built a general artificial intelligence. And I just went about my day like, like we, we're now talking seriously, not like science fiction about like a new species that we created or whatever the hell we're going to call it, but like a new thing that's like, like smarter than, than Homo sapiens, which has never existed on, on planet Earth. Right. And so that's like really like it's probably, you know, the Internet. Everything that happened before this pales in comparison to the amount of disruption and, and the amount of, you know, and the risk and, and the reward that we're facing today with AI, it's, it's really powerful.

Should we be scared of it?

Anybody who's working on it, who's not a little bit scared of it, it's just full of shit, we should be a little bit scared of it. I mean, if we get it wrong, it's basically like we're playing with nuclear weapons at this point. It's like really we do ourselves. Yeah, yeah. And we should get it right. I think at the end we will get it right because the products that will come out will be to enhance the human experience and enhance the human purpose. And that's what's been happening so far. And I think we as human beings want that. So that's what we will pay for. So I think we're going to be fine in the event. It's just a risk, you know. But anyways, going back to the point, like you now have this super. Now that I scared everybody. So you're welcome.

I think that's important though. I think people understand the responsibility and consequence that comes with this thing.

Yes. It's not a coincidence that all the people working on like the people that really know what's going on, it's like, you know, like Elon Musk has been talking about this and like even Sam Altman, not a coincidence that they're like really concerned about getting it right. Because we're, you know, it's, it's the blessing and the curse of human beings. We're very curious and we place with the laws of the universe and it could be amazing, you know, or it could be very destructive. Right, so. So we should get this one right.

So yeah, let's just take all the nuclear weapons off of any kind of connectivity to the Internet.

Like, I mean you don't. For the bad things to happen, you don't need nuclear weapons. That's the problem.

It could be a lot worse.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so I mean like nuclear weapons, right. The chances are not high. But you know, if there's even a 1% chance of wiping out humanity, you want to be very, very, very clear about that. So it's the same thing with this. You want to be very cautious about how you do things. And not to say, but it has, but like, you know, it has massive, massive potential to just elevate the human condition so much. So it's, it's. Yeah, it's really powerful.

I think it has this, you know, I said this to somebody the other day and they go, I hadn't really thought about it that way. But there's this concept of the 99% and the 1%. Right. 1% has all the money, 99% are giving it to them most of the time or trying to figure out how to get some of it. And I think that AI has the potential as long as the 99% understands how to use it to shift that financial windfall 1000% to a different percentage perspective. Dramatic. Like it could actually flip it.

I mean. Yeah, yeah, like 1,000%. 1,000%. I mean, like what you. Essentially one of the. I mean, you see, a lot of academics are really scared of AI and rightly so, because they're at the forefront of things that are going to get entirely disrupted if not replaced with this new technology. Because it's similar to what happened with the Lutheran kind of Reformation movement. It was powered by the printing press, right? There was no Reformation without the printing press. Because the whole Reformation was like, I. I'm going to print the Bible in my own language. I don't need these scribes. Sponsored by the church that, you know, gets all this money, like the medieval Catholic Church that, you know, takes all this money. What is it that people, like, used to pay the church to get their sins removed or whatever the hell that was called?

What were those called? I know what you're talking about.

Starts with an A. Indulgences.

Oh, it is?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Indulgences. It's like the church was like, they were like, accumulating all these funds from people, and then all of a sudden, you know, Mr. Gutenberg comes out with the printing press. You know, everybody's able to print, and then kind of like knowledge and information becomes commoditized, right, with the printing press. It became more so with the Internet. When happened. Now, I think it's like colleges, like, you know, these colleges that kind of monopolize intelligence. And then, you know, like, the consulting companies and the. And the I banking companies and the law firms, and, like, all these big companies hire out of colleges, like their big recruiting pipeline. And, you know, like, everybody knows that, you know, it's like, harder to get into Harvard than do well at Harvard. You know what I mean? Like, the value of getting into Harvard and like, getting into all these, like, big schools is that you are there. So people already know that you're really intelligent because you had a good SAT score and so on and so forth. So what's happening now is you're essentially commoditizing intelligence. You're commoditizing intelligence. Everybody has a supercomputer that's smarter than anybody in the planet in their pocket.

I've been using it because I'm a big dummy. I'm like, I'm. I'm dumb, so I want to use this thing to make me smart, right?

So, yes. So then it's like a similar thing's gonna happen. It's gonna be a bigger disruption than the printing press to the Catholics, there's gonna be a big disruption to college, to education and to many other industries. Because essentially what you're doing is you're commoditizing intelligence. Intelligence now is a commodity that you have in your phone. So yes, it'll like no longer the smart people are gonna control society.

I hearken it to like the radical change. Like you pointed out, a good one, the printing press, that was such a big radical change. The industrial revolution, a big radical change. The smartphone. Like, each one of those things, the computer before the Internet, each one of those things disrupted the way humans act and do. All of them, to me, seem to not have slowed things down. Like, the idea has always been to make things easier so we don't have to work as hard.

Right, right.

That didn't actually happen with any of them. All they did was afford more capacity to do more in the same amount of time.

Right.

Do you think AI is going to be like that?

Yeah, I mean, I mean like, yes, 1,000%. So there are jobs that are going to be entirely replaced. Like, like, you know how the car replaced a lot of, you know, the chariot riders who would, you know, drive chariots.

There were a bunch of horseshoe people out there.

So. So this is, this is going to replace some jobs. Right? Like some people, I mean, there's. I see companies, not only mine, that are like working on. And this is something that's probably going to get replaced, I think in the next two years. It's like the call center. With the technology that exists now, you can kind of replace simple, kind of like, you know, call center conversations probably. Like that's something I know a company that's working on it. It's called Avocado AI. They're literally working on replacing the call centers. Like, you know, you talk and it's a machine, it sounds like a human. It's just like the technology is there for the machine to be like literally able to answer you in real time because speech to text is really accurate. So you talk to it, the machine transcribes it, then it feeds it to ChatGPT. ChatGPT comes up with a response in real time and then it uses text to speech to answer. And you can use a deep fake to make it sound like any human being that you want or, you know, and with the intonation and everything, basically you just replace the call center. So technology is there to do that.

I've seen some of the digital door knocking stuff too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

These guys out knocking doors are like. And you sit there go, wow, this Replacing all these jobs, right?

Yes, it will replace a lot of jobs, but there are some jobs.

A whole bunch of jobs. Yes, a whole bunch of jobs for the people that actually know how to use it.

So like, perfect example, Perfect example. I'll talk about Rilla since I know a lot about it. So, so, so Rilla, right? A sales manager with rilla. The number one answer to the question of how many ride alongs are you currently doing today? Like when we talk about in our sales calls to a sales manager, what's the number one answer that we get.

To that, Jim per day?

No, no, like, just like in general, how many write ons are you doing in general, what do you think is the number one answer that we get from a sales manager?

None.

None. But they say, they say it in a way they say or what? I can not enough as I should. I said they know they should do it because they don't want to do it because it's so time consuming. I was like, oh my God. And so with real life. So for instance, like we had. I always use Chad from storm guard. He was one of our first customers. I love Chad. Wherever you are now, Chad. Hi, Chad.

I'll make sure Chad gets this.

Yeah, Chad Arnold, he used to be a sales manager for the storm guard Appalachia franchise. He was a really cool guy and he used to manage like a team of five, six reps. And I asked him, how do you go your first week of using? Really? Chad said, listen, last week it took me, you know, I went on one ride along with one rep. And today with real, I was able to ride along with all my six reps. And I said, holy crap, that's amazing. That's a six times improvement. And chat said, no. Last week it took me six hours to watch two appointments for this one guy. Today with rilla, I was able to coach all of my six reps, watch four of their appointments, 24 appointments total. I was able to see all their analytics, how they're talking, what they're saying, what they're doing right, what they're doing wrong in the home. I was able to do all of that in less than 50 minutes. So we're talking six hours to 50 minutes, one person to six. That's a 30 times increase in the productivity of your sales managers. And one of the things that we've seen with rilla, we have some of our customers, they've literally. There's one of our customers in Washington, a roofing company that you guys know as well. They literally hired a Remote sales coach. Right. That's not in their area. And the remote sales coach like lives. I don't think he even live in the country. They don't live in the United States. They hired a remote sales coach that can coach their reps. And now we're seeing this almost like remote sales trainer become a job.

I thought about that whenever we first talked to you guys. I'm like, holy cow, you're going to be able to coach these guys just like you would like a golf coach where you record your video, you send it to him, there's apps like that all day and he watches your video, gives you your coaching advice back, like I don't have to be with you.

Yes. And so, so then that's, that's a new thing that we've seen being created. I mean that's what we have with, with you guys with the partnership with the, with the top rep. You know, you guys get to coach people remotely wherever they are in the country. World class coaches, always at your disposal. So. And that's a, that's a different kind of job, right? It's a different kind of job than the, in the traditional sales manager role. So, so yeah, while, while people are maybe hiring less. Like people ask us like is this going to replace the sales manager? And we say not really a sales manager using. This is going to replace the sales manager. Right. And so, so yeah, so you're going.

To see those replace the, the need to connect motivation, of course to the need. So every single person on this planet is motivated by something. They have incentive to go do whatever it is they do. And the actual value of a real sales manager, somebody that knows what they're doing, is being able to connect with whoever's working for them, whatever it is they want with proper incentive to.

Yes, yes.

Motivation, which is what ends up getting the results that you're looking for now. Coaching them on what to say and how to say it. I can see that, like taking that off of my plate. So I can then totally focus, right?

Yes.

Hey, let's get you to where you want to be. Let's talk about your work ethic. Let's talk about some of your skill set. Let's talk about some of that because we already know what the problem is.

Yeah, yeah. Like I think that's an awesome thing that you entered the motivation side of the equation because there was just read this book by Andy Grove who's the CEO. He was the CEO of Intel and he wrote this book called High Output Management and he says like if you have a player in your team who's not performing well or can't get the job done. There's only two reasons for it. One, he can't do it. Two, they won't do it. And if he can't do it, it's because you need to coach him on how to do it properly because he doesn't the proper training, or if he won't do it, it's because he's not properly motivated. So you have to motivate. And those are the two kind of inputs that you have as a manager of anything, as a coach of anything, is just to motivate and to coach. And so we help a lot, a lot with the coaching side. And, and we think that sales managers become bionic when they're using something like relative coaching. You still can't replace the coaching. Like the sales manager has to go and, and coach you and, and, and gives you that feedback where AI is still not there, where you can have like, even if you can replace the call center, you still can't replace, like sales managers identifying the key areas of opportunities and like finding that black swan in a conversation and saying, like, oh, you should have done this better. But a tool like realist certainly, certainly helps the sales managers become bionic and super powerful at their job. So you're going to see those two things with AI where it's going to replace a lot of jobs. It's going to create a lot of jobs, but it's also going to make certain jobs. It's just going to supercharge them. I see it with my own engineers. It hasn't replaced engineers, but our own engineers are five to ten times more productive by just having chat access to ChatGPT. It's, it's insane what it's doing to elevate the productivity of human beings right now.

Well, I'm not gonna lie. It's supercharging our coaching. We're using it. We're like, okay, so we've got this tool out there now. It does this thing. And early on when we started first kind of getting into it, the output wasn't what, like, it was accurate?

Yes, yes.

It had zero personality. There was no personality to it. It didn't sound like us, any of those kinds of things. Things. And as we put more time and more effort into it, we started to find the different tools that were out there. And we use a tool now that actually allows us to incorporate our brand voice into it. So we took my book and input my entire book into it. We took all of our 7,000 documents and content and videos and all that other stuff, we put that into it. So now whenever we chat with it, it sounds like us coming back.

Yeah.

Wildest thing. I'm like, okay, this is going to be good because it allows us to put out more content that's valuable and free to the industry to raise the bar. And I'm all about raising the bar. How high can we go?

Right? Yeah.

So let's switch gears a little bit here. We've been talking a lot about AI and its impact and a lot of scary stuff, a lot of cool stuff. Let's talk about real of voice specifically. I'm going to remind everybody what it does. It records your in home sales presentation, which there isn't anything out there that does it like what RealVoice does. Yeah, it takes that information, transcribes it, but it also says, hey, this is the piece or the thing that this guy's saying, who's being successful Here it is. You should try that.

Right.

Like, it parses out those things that are being successful. What are you finding that tends to be uniform across all the companies out there? We won't have to like, pick one specifically, because I don't think that's fair. But what are you finding that's uniform? That's like maybe eye opening or, hey, I kind of thought that. And we proved it.

So we analyzed 500,000 sales conversations with our A.I. right. That's all, just 500,000. We're going to tell our team to do more. Just, you know, they made Jim disappointed. We're going to do more. So we analyze 500,000 sales conversations with AI and we kind of. We looked at what the top performers across the country, across different industries, what is it that they're doing differently in that home with those homeowners? What is it that they're saying specifically? And how is it that they're saying it so that they can close more deals? And we're talking people that are bringing in more than $3 million in revenue to their businesses every single year. Right. So we're talking about absolute top, you know, 1% of performers across the country. What is it that that makes them special scientifically? Right. You know, that's one of the things. Like, not, yes, there's personality and yes, there's an art, but there's also a science to sales. Right. And so we kind of ran the numbers and we found some pretty interesting things. Right. One of the first things that we found that was common across industries, especially when it's in home sales, it's like talk ratio. One of the things we measure is how long is the salesperson talking versus the customer. And you probably didn't need AI to figure this out, but now we have the numbers. The numbers are in, ladies and gentlemen. And the numbers are in. And they say that the top performers talk 20% less than the average performers. The average rep spends 75% of the time talking in the home versus the homeowner. And average performers, consistently they're between 45 and 65% of the time they spend. It's basically like 50, 50 with the top performers and the homeowners, they elicit open ended questions, which I can talk about in a little bit. They listed more open ended questions. They're able to get the homeowner talking for just a longer amount of time than the average reps and not 20%. If you just talk less, you increase your chances of selling by a lot. So that's one of the things we.

Thought first off, that's pretty incredible. And you're right. It proves what we thought. You got two ears to listen with one mouth to speak all the time. Open ended questions to gather information. But in sales, the training that exists out there in most places doesn't talk about that very much. They talk about order and format, they talk about how to beat objections. They talk about those kinds of things.

Yeah.

But they don't talk about the investigative side of it. And really what we are, if you, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, we as salespeople are detectives trying to solve a case. That's what, that's what we're doing. And so the more information we have and we can compile together, we can put it together and go, oh, down the path. And there's the actual. We solved the case for you, Mr. And Mrs. Homeowner.

Yes.

Pretty cool to see that that is proven to be accurate. Yes, that's cool. What else have you found?

So one of the things we found like talking about like all these things of how to talk is that when the top performers. Right. So talking about open ended questions, the top performers, if you look at the, at the rate of open ended questions, they ask more open ended questions than usual. You know, they're usually averaging like, you know, 5 to 10 when. Whereas average performers are asking 1 to 5. Right. And so it's like almost twice. But then what you also see is that the rate at which top. And again, these are averages. Right. So there's conversations where there's more, more, there's conversations where there's less. But you know, one of the things we saw is that the rate at which top performers ask open ended questions during the conversation with a homeowner, it, it basically stays static. It's not that they ask all the like average reps are asking open ended questions and it's mostly like if you were to see it in a graph, it'd be like the, the average reps would be like this many open ended questions at the beginning and then it kind of dies throughout the rest of the conversation. The top performers, they ask a lot of open end questions at the beginning but it kind of, they keep doing it towards the end of the conversation. So it's a graph that's not like skewed to the right. It's a graph that's like kind of pretty consistent, right.

And so that's really get more, more in depth and maybe even almost more aggressive because there's comfort now and trust between the two parties. And so you can ask more, you can ask a question later in the conversation that you couldn't ask earlier in the conversation. Are you finding any of that?

Well, what we think and it just goes with another thing that we found is that typically it's that the top reps are always in discovery mode and they're always in discovery mode. So they do their discovery, their qualification at the beginning. Maybe you're doing an inspection and you're trying to figure out if this homeowner has any experience with a contractor before. You're trying to figure out how long they've been living in this home. This is standard questions that you're asking, asking. Tell me a little bit about you. You called us here, right? But then when they get into the, you know, let's say you get the company story into the product demo, they, they see that the homeowner, you know, the homeowner's not, you know, reacting well to their presentation or to their demo. They stop and say, hey, I'm sorry, I must be doing something wrong. What about what I'm doing is not resident. There's something that's not resonating here. What, what's, what's going on? They stop. They literally stop and they see that it's not resonating and they literally say what's going on? And there's an open ended question, what's going on? Or if they see that it's really res. Like oh my God, this person. Hey, it sounds like you really like, you really like this part. Like what, what about this just resonated yeah.

What is it specifically that you like about it? Yeah. Yes.

And so that's. And then when they deal with objections, this is another thing that I'm going to into. They tend to, they tend to answer objections with questions. So even at the end when they're, you know, dealing like Miselle, the price is $15,000 to do this roof. Oh my God. Jesus. I don't got $15,000 in the bank. That's, that's just not something we can. That that price is too high. And then instead of saying so the.

Answer that is, what do you mean?

What do you mean? What do you mean exactly? What do you mean?

And so a lot of times we don't know as salespeople what they mean by that. $50,000 is too high. Does it, does it mean that they don't have the money? Does they, does it mean that they don't know how they're going to pay for it, but they think it's worth it? Does it mean that they're waiting on some money to come in later so they can actually do it?

Like.

Yeah, we've got to get that clarity.

Yes.

Because we make assumptions and they all know what, we all know what they say about that.

Right.

It makes the ass out of you and me to make. Yeah. That they're just saying it's too much. When they're not saying it's too much.

They'Re saying, you don't know what they're.

Right this second.

That's just like the thing that they're saying. But you don't know what it is that they're actually thinking and what they actually mean by that. So it's like, what do you mean the price is too high? Help me understand, what do you mean by that?

Yeah, I bet you you don't answer that question ever, do you? Right. What, what do you mean this is too high?

I think I say back to. I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean?

That's super funny. So we've talked about, and we've talked about a few of the like what I would call skills and they're soft skills. Really. There's soft skills of a salesperson who usually has some experience or some really good coaching that through that experience or good coaching, he's learned when to ask questions, when not to. He's learned how much he should talk and how much he shouldn't. If he asks open ended questions, he's automatically going to talk to less than the other person.

Yes.

What, what have you seen about order of operation.

Yeah. That's interesting.

So you, you, you hear these Things like this 10 step sales process or even us with our like our flight plan and that type of thing that we teach.

Yes.

Has there been, has there been proof that that stuff works? Number one and secondly, has there been anything that was like that actually happens before this and that kind of surprised us?

Yeah, so totally. So we did find evidence that these, these critical things that, you know, in the ten step process, they do work. And some have, like, really clear evidence more than others. So one of the things we found is that the top performers in overall, from our analysis, they talk about company story, qualifying sequence and financing terms, two, three, even seven times more on average than But I hear it's not important to talk about.