Using CompanyCam to Make and Save Money with Michael Gogan

Hey, everybody, is Jim Johnson here? The head coach at Contractor Coach Pro with this week's episode of Contractor Radio and Contractors Radio is designed to help you with the strategies for your business to help you succeed out there in the field. And we have a special guest today that is not only pretty amazing at what he does for his company as a representative and really like all everything for Company Cam, as a face goes, but he's got a pretty good history, too. School teacher, coach, all kinds of things like that. Understand he's a halfway decent basketball player and he's got some pretty cool kids doing that kind of stuff. He sent me some videos of his kids playing basketball and I was like, wow, man, I couldn't do that at that age. So that was pretty cool to see. Michael Gogan from Company Cam, welcome aboard. Today, Contractor Radio.

Hey, thanks for having me, Jim. When. When you said, you know, wanted me on the show, I was super pumped and so excited to be here and just chat with you for a little bit.

Yeah, that's kind of what we do here. We chat a little bit, we find out a little bit about you and maybe what makes you tick, and we also find about a little bit about your company and then why does it fit the strategy of Contractors Today and Company Cam? I, you know, I have an affinity for you guys. I was one of the first guys in our industry to find out who you were other than the company that was actually created from this tool. And when I saw it, I was like, oh, my God, I'm so mad. I am so angry. That is so brilliant. Why didn't I think of was frustrating? But I was like, hey, that's a really cool tool. And literally just about every customer I have uses CompanyCam. And I thought I wanted to get you to a broader audience out there. We have a lot of contractors that listen to this that aren't just roofing companies. They do a lot of different things. And so we thought we'd bring you on today and talk about why CompanyCam is such a great tool for our strategies when it comes not just a presentation, but so many other things that we do in our business. So first off, just give us a little background on you, like, who's Michael Gogan?

Yeah, absolutely. So born and raised in Nebraska. I went to University of Nebraska Kearney, like you said. I was. I went to school to be a teacher. I played a season of football and then was injured. And that injury kind of. So I grew up a coach's kid. And that injury, the one of my offensive coordinator Actually helped me get a volunteer coaching job there close to, close to Kearney. So I got into coaching there as a sophomore in college, graduated, started teaching, coached football and basketball in my first school that I was at. Actually met my wife right before I got my first job and she's actually a teacher as well. So she got a job in the same small town in Nebraska. We've since migrated to Lincoln, have a seven and a four year old boy both they love their sports and they are 100% boy through and through. Our house, we got, built a new house and you would never believe it because they play a lot of sports inside. Did a little entrepreneur venture there with a donut company for a couple years. Realized that as much as I love donuts, that's not my, that wasn't my place I wanted to be. And then ended up by God's grace with Company Cam and been here for about three and a half years now.

So how'd you get in with companycam? What happened there was, it was like an interview traditional type thing or did somebody know you?

Oh, absolutely. Not at all. So I was the donut thing. I, you know, had a great general manager, was kind of running the day to day, which I was doing. So I was starting to see that I could maybe free up some of my time. And a guy that I had played high school sports against and gotten to know decently well was friends on Facebook, posted that Company Cam was looking to start trying to sell companycam. They didn't have any salespeople yet. And I said, well, I wouldn't mind maybe trying to do that for a few hours a week. And they wanted somebody full time. And I said, ah, I'd probably do 10 to 20 hours right away and talked on the phone. They said, let's give it a shot. And I think it was either day one or day two. I said, I can sell this because it truly works. And so I'll do this 40 hours, I can get my general manager to do the donuts, I'll do this and the rest is history.

You didn't really quite know what you had until you started talking to contractors and showing them what it was. And they were going, wow, this is amazing.

Yeah, yeah, because the donut end of things, you know, we, we do a ton of wholesale there. And so I, you know, had those meetings where I'm trying to get into with a decision maker and pitching them on why you need our product. And I knew how difficult it was. And you know, once I was getting to the decision maker in the contracting world, it was so easy to get them to check out the product and love the product. I was like, I can do this.

Yeah, that's one of the things I've noticed about this industry and really kind of all contractors, it's still a little dark ages. Technology is not the most important thing in the world to a lot of. They like hammers and screwdrivers and stuff like that. Keyboards and computers and cloud based stuff isn't necessarily their bag of tricks, but they're starting to take hold of it at this point and really have for the last two or three years. I have some experience in the software side of this before this coaching thing with Accu Links and talking to people in 2009 about putting everything on the cloud and boy, you're going to be able to communicate. They're like, I don't understand that. I don't want anything off of my server. What are you talking about? You're going to break into my stuff, you're going to get. And so today it's a little bit different. They're starting to see the value in it. Before we get into more about that, how did cummincam come about, what drove it? I know nobody really knows what it is yet, so maybe give it a little brief description like the 50,000 foot view and then what made it actually come about.

Yeah, absolutely. So we were born out of Lincoln, Nebraska here and a forward thinking roofing company. They were on top of their game in terms of knowing how important it is to document what's going on on their job sites. They were taking pictures, taking notes and they were trying to then get those pictures from the field back to a central location. Texting, emailing, digital cameras. They're bringing in the chips and uploading photos at the end of days and it took a lost photo and one of the sons of the roofing company knowing that he had that photo somewhere and not being able to find it for him to look for a solution that got all of his pictures, notes and communication in one place. He didn't find anything that he felt would do that and so hired a developer and created CompanyCam. So it was initially created for his family's roofing company and then as it started going organically, got a few people, other people using it. And then I came into the picture when they said, I think we can start selling this to people.

Yeah, I can remember when you came on because I was like their salesman before that I was the guy telling everybody about it. So I was grateful and thankful that I Wasn't doing as much that I could just say, call Mike.

He's got it.

That's really a cool story. I love software that happens that way. This way where you go, that thing doesn't exist. I really need it. I see a need for. I'm going to build it. I'm just building it for me. That's the way I'm going to do it. And somebody finds out about it, like, hey, could I use it? It just naturally, organically grows, and then it gets a little bit of a wave behind it, and it really kind of becomes this thing. And you guys are well on your way there. You were kind of like that startup thing, and now there was like this push. Like, wow, man, this is really cool. I see it just keeping on picking up steam. Because now it's not just for roofing companies. It's for all kinds of contracting. Like, name a few of the contractors that use coming again.

Yeah. So we've got H vac, plumbing, electrical, landscaping, interior, you know, remodelers. We've got GCs. We've got a large GC here in Nebraska that uses us. Really? Anybody that's coming to your house or your place of business to fix anything. Painters, We're a great tool for because it's just so easy to use. So I think we've got 20 plus verticals that we're in.

That's amazing.

Lots of different contractors.

That is super cool. All right, before we go any further, I always like to ask our guests this. We like to know a little bit about you, too. And so to this point, how old are you now, Mike? Can I ask you?

Yeah, yeah. I'm 34.

34 years old. You still just a kid in my world. So up to this point, what's been your greatest achievement? And not including getting married or kids, that's the easy stuff. We all know those are your greatest achievements. We'll make sure to tell your wife. Other than that, what's been your greatest achievement?

Yeah. So, you know, I think obviously, wife and kids, that that is that achievement. And I think that, you know, if I. If I go elsewhere, I would say making the decision to pivot from what I was doing and into this life of entrepreneur and jumping into a startup company, that's really was my defining moment. Because as a kid, I was an entrepreneur. I was going out after I lived on a golf course. After league night and tournaments, I'm going out and I knew where people were losing golf balls. And I'm hunting for golf balls. I'm cleaning them up. And then I'm setting up a stand during the league night and tournaments and selling these golf balls right back to the, the guys that were losing them. I ended up with so many. I traded for my first set of golf clubs that, you know, I purchased myself with golf balls, 1400 golf balls. Got me a $700 set of golf clubs. So I was an entrepreneur at heart. I loved coaching. I grew up an educator's kid. And so I thought that was the route for me was teaching. And I love teaching. I still am teaching all the time with what I do now, but where I said, hey, I want to go out and create my own destiny, do some of these things. So I would say that's probably my biggest achievement because hopefully my wife and my kids see that and they say, yeah, we can go and chase things we can do. It wasn't an easy decision. It was kind of a scary decision to do it. And it's proven to be a great decision. So hopefully by me making that decision and completely pivoting what I was doing, my kids see it, my wife sees it, and they say we can make those scary decisions as well.

We're going to come back to that little piece right there. Let's talk a little bit about coming camp, but you had a lot there that I want to kind of dig into if I can. There's a reason I like you that we have a lot of similarities there that you were mentioning. So let's talk a little bit about CompanyCam. So this thing takes pictures, houses them centrally for a business to use in presentations to keep themselves out of trouble. Like, hey, we didn't do that. That was already there. That kind of stuff. What else does it do? Like, that's kind of real general, high level thing. But yeah, what else does company camp do for a contractor?

Well, there's no better timing than to be on contractor radio a couple days after. So Sunday, which would have been Thursday. Five days ago, video went live. So you can now capture video in CompanyCam, which is really cool because, you know, we've got ways to communicate with your clients. We've got a timeline feature that you can share to any stakeholder, property owner, homeowner, whoever it is. And you can say, hey, we're gonna take some pictures. We're now gonna take video and we're gonna keep you in the loop of what's going on on your project. I think that if done correctly, that's going to be a really, really awesome tool, especially on projects that maybe are more than one day you could give just a quick little 20 second recap video at the end of the day. Here you go, Mr. Mrs. Homeowner leaves them with something that many other contractors are doing and gives them something to tell their friends about. You know, if you're getting a pool installed, man, our contractor, look at this, he sent us this little video update of what's going on with the pool. Just so. The timeline feature is a really cool feature, like you said, keeping yourself out of trouble. There's so much value to that because a lot of these contractors are living on razor thin margins. It's like, hey, we've got to hit these numbers. And a cracked driveway or a damaged garage door or something like that, that can take a profitable job and turn it, you know, into the red in a hurry. And so, you know, being able to document and have timestamp photos showing what the property looked like before you started doing any work, very, very valuable.

Yeah, like that broken window on your house. No, no, that was already there. We didn't do that. I don't know. I know it was just a crack, so you may have missed it, but here's the picture, here's the timestamp. We hadn't even been here yet. So yeah, I see a whole lot of value in that. I sit here and go, man, when I was a contractor, I wish company cam was around. I think that thing would have saved me hundreds of thousands of dollars and probably made me that much and more just in being creative in the use of it. Like, one of the features that you have is you have this ability to share a link to whoever's home you're at and say, hey, while I'm doing my inspection or doing my thing, I'll be taking pictures. You can see them right at this URL as I do them. Now, is that also video? Like, could I do the video that way too if I want? You like minute long video? Yeah, that's super. As like especially right now, I mean, with coronavirus and Covid, all the stuff that's going on. Hey, Mrs. Jones, you don't have to worry about it. Have a seat on your couch. I'm not gonna have to show you my phone or anything like that. I'm gonna give you this link. You'll be able to see it as I go. There'll be explanations and everything with it and. And then we'll reconvene whenever I get done with my inspection. For me, when it comes to being a contractor, it's all about being different. How do I gain an edge on my competition. I can't think of a better way at this point in time. Till everybody else is using companycam, I've got this big, huge advantage. And then being creative and those type of things with how you use it will still give you an advantage for a very long time to come. What's the most creative way you've seen somebody use Company Cam?

So I've got a couple. One is simple, but it just makes so much sense. They do either a quick little action shot in a neighborhood or they'll wait till they get a job in the neighborhood complete and do a before and after. They thank those homeowners, but then they run a sponsored ad targeted at that neighborhood. And it really creates, especially if you're doing something on the exterior of a home, pool, deck, roof, siding, any of the landscaping. It almost creates that keeping up with the Joneses type of mentality. And you're targeting that just that neighborhood of hey, thanks to Mr. And Mrs. Smith for letting us completely make over their home. Doesn't it look like a night and day difference? You have the before and after. You run targeted ads just in that area. That's one that's super simple. I've got a contractor using those before and afters as postcards that he writes thank yous on. I think that's creative. But I think my biggest winner, the winner has to be. I've got a contractor up in the Dakotas and they take all of their trailers and they inventory exactly what's on the trailer so that all times they should be able to tell you exactly what tools and equipment are in the trailer. Anytime they replace something, they take pictures of the new serial numbers, receipts that they have, all of that stuff, they tag it. So from like a creative, like we're saving ourselves with Company Cam, that's a huge one. I don't know if the testimonial or the case study's live yet, but they actually had a trailer stolen and we're able to recover like 90 plus percent of all the tools on there just because they had it in companycam got it through the proper channel. So from a covering yourself, that's probably the most creative from a sales perspective. We have project labels and this is a new one contractor was telling me about. He's like, man, we three months of the year, we can't be doing any work or an exterior contractor. So what we do is anytime we're on a job site, if something is maybe going to need updated in the near future, we create a label with the Year, we think it will be needing to be done and then space whatever project it is, windows, siding, gutters. And then we let the homeowner know, hey, you could. We can do this today. You probably still have two or three years left on the life of it, so it's not a pressing thing. Try to get the sale today, but if we don't, we've already set that tone of we are not going to pressure you into it, but we're going to label it in company cam. So then whenever that year 2021, 2022 rolls around, we filter all of our projects and there they are waiting for me to be able to say, oh, I need to call the Smiths, because we told them we'd do their. Maybe need to do their windows this year. Give them a call. You're setting your pipeline up with documentation you've already been doing.

Yeah, we actually have a contractor that we coach that does that. And he said he makes about 15% of his sales a year just off of that. One little thing of naming those things and knowing to go back to them because nobody else knows about that project and that it's going to need to be done. So he's kind of got first shot at it. That is cool. Everything about this thing is just exciting to me. From a contract, I keep putting myself in a contractor's perspective and going, hey, man, how would I use this thing? There's some other things that it does. Annotation. Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, so there's all sorts of apps out there where you can already download and markup photos, or you've got Snapchat you can try to draw on them. We've got that all built into the app. So when you take a photo, you can go in, you can add drawings, numbers, text right on top of the photos. If used correctly, you know, your sales guys can really create a blueprint for your installation team so they know exactly what they're walking into when they go out to do that job. You can add notes underneath of the photos as well. If you, you know, you want to go in and make a little longer note. You can add paragraphs if you want on a photo describing what it is. Again, some of those annotations are really nice. When to get a sale. I can go in and I can annotate something and say, hey, this is. This rose bush is, you know, it's really important. Let's make sure that we, you know, take these steps to properly protect it. Just a really nice thing that you can do. And you can, you know, Mrs. Smith says, watch out. Here you go.

Look at this.

Mrs. Smith, I made notes for our installation team. They're going to see these. They're going to make sure that we don't do any damage to that rose bush. So you can sell with it. You can inform your installation team lots of really nice things you can do with those annotations.

Yeah. One of the ones I saw that I thought was, like, ingenious. It was a mason chimney on a house downslope. Right. It's not up near the top. It was downslope, and there was no cricket on it. And those guys that are roofers know what a cricket is, and there was no cricket on it. And he drew a little drawing of what the cricket would look like. He used that to sell a cricket to that homeowner and then also used it with the crew to give the description of what needed to be done. I thought that was brilliant. It was just like, here's an issue. There's a problem. This is why you have a leak here, and this is what we need to do to resolve it. And they could see, like, telling somebody what a cricket is. They have no idea. You might have to go look up a picture somewhere else, which I'm assuming you could probably do in Company. I don't know. Can I do a search for cricket and pull up pictures of crickets?

Yeah, absolutely. So I could. Any cricut that I've ever installed, I could tag that cricket and then I could pull those up. So now. Yeah, dead on. So I've got the homeowner. I say, this is what we're gonna install. My drawing may not be the greatest quick filter. Here's one we've actually installed. You know, I don't know that I even have a contractor doing this, but I would make sure that I had everything cataloged in Company. Came with at least one tag of everything we could possibly do to your roof. Just so we can go and show. Here's one we've actually done. You know, I can do it with my shingle colors, siding colors, window types. You know, here it is in a catalog, but here it is actually on someone's house, and we did it.

Yeah. So I don't have to go and, like, create 100 different albums on my phone and try and remember which one's where and what. All that other good stuff. Yeah. That's just so much benefit to what technology can do for a contractor. What else should we know about companycam? What are we missing? Is there Anything like some great wisdom with companycam that I haven't hit on yet?

Yeah, I mean, the tagging, like you just said, I think is a very valuable thing. We talked about covering your backside there earlier. I would be tagging preexisting damage on every job. Really, you know, get that into your process of, guys, we're there to fix a problem, but let's look at the full picture of what's going on on this property so that we don't miss damage that we're maybe not going to fix, but that we don't want to have to pay for fixing because we didn't do. So tagging is huge. I talked a little bit about those before and afters.

Can we dig in there for just a second?

Yeah, let's dig in.

Because I don't know if, like, if you're listening to this on the podcast, I don't know if you can picture it in your mind what that look like, but it's not like two pictures side by side like this before and this after. It's one picture of the home that's superimposed over each other. And you can actually slide that as much as you want to, I think. Right? Yep. And you can make it a curved line or a straight line. And half of the house is the before and half of the house is the after. So you can really see it all in one picture. And I think in the app, I could actually show it to a homeowner and slide that thing back and forth. Is that the way that works?

Yep. And I've got my logo right there on there. So when I say this is the before and after, so essentially, I can move. When you're talking sliding, I can move that picture around to where I get that exact same shot. So, you know, I can see the. The ridge. And that ridge goes from the old to the new in the picture, and it looks like one seamless shot. There it is. My logo is right there on that. I tell every contractor you need to be making, you're already taking those pictures. We make it so easy to get them together that you need to be doing before and afters on every job you complete.

Yeah, I'm going to bets the stuff to differentiate yourself. Right. Like, how do I set myself apart? I know those guys over there aren't doing it. They're just too lazy. They're not going to take the time to do that stuff to make sure they take a picture from the same spot. And so I'm going to. And I'm going to Have a tool that nobody else does. I can post all over Facebook and show how much we can make over a home and pictures are worth. You know, I say it all the time. Worth a thousand words, sometimes even more. So I think that would be something that would be a massive thing I would push if I was the owner of a company and I was going to invest in company camp. Speaking of investing in companycam as one of the other things that makes it one of my favorites, it's the most affordable app out there in the world that probably makes you the most money. This return on investment far outweighs anything else that I've seen. What are we doing nowadays? Like, I don't know what you're charging exactly at this point. Where are we at with that?

Yeah, so we are with video. We've got some really cool stuff going. We've rolled out what we call freemium. I won't get too into the weeds on what freemium is.

I like the first four letters.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's what it is. We give CompanyCam for free for a certain number of users and a certain number of projects because we know that if you use it, you're gonna see the value in it. Once you decide, hey, I want to go to that Pro tier of CompanyCam. We add in the video. We add in all of our integration partners. That tier is $19 a user. It's super easy. There's no contract with it. There's no. I call them the I gotcha fees of. Well, it was $19, but now you wanna tie it to your job Nimbus. So it's $24. Oh, you want to tie it to hover as well. It's 30 now. It's $19 a user. No contract. Add and subtract your users as you need to. We prorate everything, so we try to keep our pricing as simple as the app is to use. So 19 bucks a user, they want to go to companycam.com CCP. I think they'll find some nice savings there as well.

Yeah, we got a little special deal for everybody. We'll put that in the link with this podcast. So if you listen to podcast, go check the link out. It'll be in there, and you can get hooked up with companycam there. So you mentioned a couple of things earlier in our conversation, more about you than company cam and this entrepreneurial thing.

Right.

Like. And that you were kind of wired for that. I was the same kid like this every time there was a contest, like, you know, you selling magazines or Candy or whatever it was. It was like, I got to go do that. And it was not about the selling part of it or whatever I would get out of it or any of that. Kind of like the reward. It was like winning. Like somebody is going to sell the most. Who's going to be the one that sells the most? Then I got into mowing lawns. My neighbor kind of talked me into it and said, hey, if you mow my lawn, I'll pay you, and I'll pay you in this motorcycle. I wanted that motorcycle really bad. And he knew my parents didn't want me to have a motorcycle. So he said, earn it yourself. They can't say much about it. He was an instigator. And so I mowed his lawn for the entire summer. Very first time I mowed his lawn, it was like, complete failure. He took me around to all the places where I missed a blade of grass or I didn't trim this right or clean out his landscaping, pulled out weeds. I was a lot more than mowing a lawn. It's, like, super detailed. And so I got about halfway through the summer, he's like, you know, have you thought about asking any of the other neighbors? I said, yeah, you know, I haven't really. Just kind of after that motorcycle, he just, I don't know. You like money? Yeah, I like money. That's great. Really neat stuff. I can do lots of cool things with it. He's like, well, maybe you should go ask a few neighbors. And sure enough, I did. I asked a bunch of neighbors, and it went on from there and there and ended up having quite a good little business going. In my second year, I was 15 years old and I had more than I could do. And he goes, what are you gonna do about that? And I said, well, I guess I gotta hire somebody. He goes, well, what about those jobs that you couldn't get to? Like, what are you talking about? He goes, well, I got all these commercial properties. You can come mow those. Well, I'd be great, but I can't get there. I'm 15 years old. I would solve the problem. Like, okay, how do I. Oh, ask somebody who's 16 years old if they want to come to work for me. Found a guy, had a truck. This is 16 years old. And I said, hey, I got a job for you. I bought all the trailer and equipment and everything. And we ended up growing that thing into something pretty significant that I actually sold at the end of my senior year. And he saw that in me. He saw that entrepreneurial spirit in me and entrepreneurial spirit is about taking risk. So what made you take the risk? That's the thing. Why do we take those risks as entrepreneurs when some people don't?

I think it comes down to when you talk about winning. I think entrepreneurs, at the end of the day, they want to, they want to achieve like the money and those things are great, but it's. You want to achieve something more than just that. I think back, I think probably the defining moment for when I decided I needed to take the risk. I didn't take the risk at this time was I was an athletic director. And when I the school, I got the job at his first year and the wrestling tournament, wrestling team was great. And the wrestling tournament I think had seven other teams involved with it. And I said, that's kind of, kind of cool, but this is our invite. We only have seven other teams, they're all local. The school I'd come from was a huge wrestling powerhouse and they were about three and a half hours away from this new school. And I said, well, they'll travel, let me see if I can get them in. And then one thing led to another and next thing you know, we're hosting 16 team wrestling tournament. We got schools from all over the state coming to it. And, you know, it was a ton of work. And, you know, hospitality room went from this little thing to now I've got to throw a huge hospitality room. The concession stand had to be completely different. I need more ticket takers, referees. And at the end of the day, I said, man, that was a ton of work. It was. I was pumped that we did it, but my paycheck didn't change at all. Like the number of spectators and entry fees, it was a big spectacle. And I said, I want to do that, but I want to do that somewhere where when I do this, I control my own destiny, both from a financial and from, hey, let's see what I can do for this company. Did the donuts for a little bit and then company came with just such a perfect fit. Right away I got an uncle that's in. He's indirectly in contracting. He works to protect companies from OSHA with safety programs, those kind of things. And so I ran the idea by him just because he was probably my closest connection to the contracting world. I'm not a contractor at all. And he's like, man, this thing's got a lot of value to it, just from a safety perspective. And I'm like, I'm going to give this a shot now. It's like, you know, what can I do for this company? Like, where can we go with the business development of this company? And so yeah, I think it's the winning of it is like, you know, just that satisfaction of saying like, man, I had a hand in something pretty special.

What's the culture like at Company Cam?

It's pretty awesome. So I'm still coming down to the office mainly because my wife's a saint and she's teaching and I've got a seven year old that's in first grade and I've got a four year old that's into everything. He's not in school yet. And so for me to be, you know, get anything accomplished, I come down here but the office is empty right now. Everyone's working from home and it's, it's almost like depressing being here because you know, usually you can just make the rounds and you just, everybody's got, you know, everybody's a little obviously different but just such a close knit group. And you know, I probably get more accomplished because people aren't stopping in to chat. But that, that camaraderie and that friendship is, it's so valuable. And I very close company. I think, I think I was employee 8 or 9 and I think we're pushing 50 now, so.

Wow, 50 really growing, man, I didn't realize that's, that's awesome. I get giddy every time I think about it because I'm like, man, this was just a really cool idea. So from the leadership of Company Cam, what are they trying to accomplish? What's the goal?

You know, our ultimate goal, and this is, you know, been that way since I came on, is we want to, we want to give contractors more time at home with their family. So when you talk culture, family is family first is always been the motto. You know, if you need, we've got unlimited time off. If you need to go do something with your family, you go do that with your family. And that, you know, you see that in our objective as well. Like you do whatever you want with the extra time, but we want to save people time. We want to give people more time in their day to go home with their kids, to spend time with their wives or husbands. If you don't have those things, you want to go knock an extra hour of doors, hey, you're going to make more money and that's going to be great. But overall the objective is finding ways to make companies more efficient so that they can spend more time, time at home.

That's a, that's really cool. I like that. Like, I could do something else with that. But your focus is that, like, we want you to spend more time with your family. That's. That's pretty powerful, man. That's awesome. So from everything that you've told me to this point, entrepreneur. Yeah, I get that, like, you knew that you wanted to take risks, try stuff. You had a few different things that you did. The sales side of it isn't necessarily entrepreneur. I know that there's some entrepreneurial instinct to salespeople and that kind of stuff, but from a skill and ability and that kind of stuff, did it come natural? Is it. Is it something where you're still learning? Are you studying it and getting better at it? Like, how's that going for you?

Yeah, I'm studying from afar. You know, there's people that, you know, you being one of them, that I see be successful, and I see, hey, what are these people doing that makes them successful at their craft? And so I'm definitely always, you know, I think that's the athlete in me of, you know, hey, that move was pretty cool. I'm not going to get beat by that move again, but I'm actually going to learn how to put that move into my arsenal. So I'm always trying to, you know, hone my craft. I don't see myself as a salesperson because to me, if I'm selling you something, it's maybe something you.