Your Secret Sauce - Bringing Your Culture to Life

Foreign. Hey everybody, it's Jim Johnson here and your host with Contractor Radio, also a head coach at Contractor Coach Pro. And we're here with another episode of Contractor Radio and we're going to talk about something that is super passionate for me, I think it's actually the key and the difference between a good business and a great business. I think it's the key between achieving something that we have pride in versus just filling our bank account. I think it's something that impacts the lives of others in a way that is so palpable, like you can just feel it, that it impacts people beyond them. It changes them from that time forward. And what we're talking about is this idea of what we call the secret Sauce, how we bring our culture to life. Like we do this, you know, culture exercises and like we write down a bunch of things, we put words up on a wall, but does it actually mean anything? And is it real? And I have an awesome guest today to talk about this. He has done an amazing podcast on culture. It's actually our most listened to podcast. We're going to bring our coach, Nathan Thibodeau in here. We're going to talk about this. I'm going to do it a little bit different than a conversation between him and I. We're going to actually do a little interview because he's had some outside experiences beyond Contractor Coach Pro with with culture that wanted to kind of dig into and get some insight from him that we think might be helpful for you in bringing your culture alive. But before we go, there is Atlas and Atlas is culture. They understand the value. They have brought their culture to life. And so just take a few seconds here, a word from our sponsor and we'll be right back.

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All right, everybody, welcome back to our show, Contractor Radio. And today we are talking about Secret sauce. The thing, hey, I'm gonna put all the spices in and I'm gonna make things like super tasty and I'm gonna have people try it and they go, oh, that's Terrible or oh, that's wonderful. Right. Like, what are the different things, things that we need to do to actually bring? Because we hear culture all the time. I think a lot of people talk about culture. They know about, you know, this idea of what culture is and, and the components of it and all the other good stuff. But I never hear anybody talking about making it real. Never talk about, like, what are the practical steps we've got to take to truly have this living, breathing culture that everybody believes in and are in our company. So I've got our special guest today. Nathan has been a part of a variety of different cultures, good and bad. We're going to talk about some of those and what the key components were with getting those things into their world to be a culture that they're proud of and people want to be a part of and they're drawn to it. So welcome aboard. Nathan. Good to have you on board. I'm going to put us in this little view right here. Yeah, there we go.

All right.

To have you on board.

Hello. How are you? It.

It's weird to do like a podcast with one of our coaches. Like, it's just.

It feels a little strange.

Yeah. Like, but this one is. Is going to be. You know, I've been thinking hard about this. Like, who should I interview on culture? There's a lot of good cultures out there. Avco comes to mind with Heath Hicks, Linear roofing with Kurt Linington, crest exteriors with St. Sam and Logan and their crest hustle. You know, there's a lot of good cultures out there that you see the roofing company, another one, their approach to culture, and I thought those guys would be great. But there's this guy that's been a part of a bunch of different cultures and coaches, this culture thing, and has done the most listened to podcast on culture that we have and, and overall, like, it's our overall number one. Listen to. If you have not listened to the hero sales culture, go listen to it and out to your sales team. It will make a massive difference in how they perceive what it is that they do. But Nathan, this idea of the secret sauce, right, like you've coached a lot of people, we go through this exercise, dream, vision, focus, core values and mission. Right. Like getting that and defining our culture. I don't believe it is our culture. I believe it's a definition of what we want our culture to be. Right. Like, there's this idea of what we. We want our culture to actually come to life and be like, it's like a plan but it's not the actual culture itself. And so what do you see that's different between the ones that put it down on paper and the ones that actually you see the results of it? What, what are some of the key components?

Well, I like, I was thinking about while as you were using the term sauce, right, And I was thinking about like different sauces that you eat. I don't like every sauce that I eat. Like every now and then I eat a sauce. I'm like, yeah, didn't, didn't dig that one. We both like barbecue, right? And so a lot of people love those, like sweet and tangy barbecue sauces, right? And they're pretty mild and they're, they're, they have a real sweetness to them. They. A lot of sugar in there. I, I'm not a big fan of those, honestly. I like spicy. I like some heat. I like it to have a little punch. I even like kind of vinegary or mustard type barbecue sauces. I like those. So I think your culture is very similar. Like some cultures, some cultures are kind of spicy. Like people are a little. I've seen cultures where there's a lot of sarcasm in the office, right? But nobody really got their feelings hurt. They just made jokes and they jabbed at each other and they would like, they would make each other laugh is really what they were after. But if you're, if you're not really that kind of a person and you were to get into that environment, you'd be like, man, these people are. I feel like I'm gonna get made fun of while I'm in. And you'd feel uncomfortable, right? You might try to fit in a little bit. You're like, and you might make a joke and you might land it might not, but you're gonna feel a little off, right? And then you're either going to adapt to that or you're gonna have to find a different sauce, right? Because that, that one just doesn't taste good to you. And so I think that the, the key things that make a culture, I think prolific. And by prolific I mean like, it's like, wow, like this is a tangible thing. It starts with the leadership having the strongest understanding of who they are. Because the better they know who they are, the easier it is for them to identify the people that are going to fit in their environment. And I know it's like we talk about the culture being like a company wide thing, but here's the thing. If the leader doesn't know it and drive it, then nobody's really going to follow that culture. They'll follow the leader. Right. And so leaders need to be wholly engaged with that culture because if they are, they will attract people that fit into that culture, and then that culture is so much more natural. We're not trying to, we're not trying to give a bunch of spicy sauce to people who like sweet and mild, right?

Yeah.

Well, that's where like, like everybody's got to participate. But in order to have everybody participate, they gotta fit. In order for them to fit, they need to be hired. And in order for them to be hired in a place they fit, they need to be identified. And that all starts with the leaders.

Yeah. So like, for, for me, you know, you saying that I look back kind of on my career and one of the things I am is I'm very competitive. Competitive. I knew that about me. And I love sports. Like, I just absolutely love sports. Think that it's awesome enough, whatever sport is. My plan is to beat the crap out of you at it. Right. Like, that's. And so I knew that about myself, and if I knew that about myself, I knew that other people that were competitive and sports minded would align with me. So I was very strategic in who I brought into my company because I know that our culture would align. Right. And so that was one of my ingredients. It was. I look at a sauce as having a base with these ingredients that you add to it that makes it spicy or sweeter or vinegary or like whatever. And you know, like looking at barbecue sauce again, you got a tomato base barbecue sauce, you got mustard based barbecue sauce, you got vinegar based barbecue sauces. But that's not the end of the sauce. That's just the, that's the base structure, which is what I really look at as your vision, your purpose, core values and mission. Like, that's, that's your base. Like, I, I got my tomato sauce right there, but then I got to add these ingredients to it to actually make it who we are and what we're about that makes us unique. And so I knew that part of my vision was to have a competitive company. What little ingredient did I add to that to make it a competitive company? We put scoreboards up on the wall. Like, hey, there was a score. Like, I'm not talking like a, a whiteboard with people's names and a number next to them. I'm talking a freaking scoreboard. Like digital scoreboard, had your name on it. You move up and down on it, your totals were on it like the.

Monitor at a bowling alley. Right?

Everybody and I. What I really wanted to do is I wanted to put one of those big scoreboards up that was like, in the center of the room. You could see it from all four sides. Basketball stadium like that I was headed. But that was just to sing. I know who I want to be and what I'm about. In my vision, I want to be a competitive company. I need to add an ingredient to that to actually make that come to life. And so scoreboard was one of those. We had. We had a basketball hoop in the back of the office, and from 2 o' clock to 3 o' clock every day, like before, we're gonna go out and knock doors and do all those basketball game. And so we had a little hot and sweaty first before you go and everything, man. Like, we like what we were.

Oh, see, a locker room.

Yeah. We had ingredients that were part of what we did, and we did everything around that. But it doesn't have to be competitive. It has to be you. And then what. Who are you? And you know, I'm professional. Okay, so if you're professional, how do you. What ingredients do you need to add to that to be professional?

We had this conversation a little bit with Chuck Toki. I remember, because I think you two would get along in a similar culture. Like, you two would compete with each other and you two would get after it. Right. And that would work. And we have this conversation. You also know, because you are the way you are, you know how to inspire and just grab somebody who's like you when you go, okay, hey, we're gonna go do this, and I'm gonna beat you. And you know that when you say that to somebody like you, that person immediately goes, oh, the hell you are. Right. And they're very inspired by that.

And.

And like, you and Chuck were both talking about that, and you were like, yeah, I understand that. And I get that thing. I'm not like you and Chuck. And so it was interesting that when we had that. That conversation and you had asked Chuck, he says, well, how would you hire somebody like Nathan? And Chuck literally was like, hiring somebody like Nathan is really difficult. And he said, because Chuck and I aren't the same, so Chuck's ability to grab somebody like me is going to be a little trickier for him because he doesn't quite understand me the same way that he understands somebody like you. Right. And so not to say that we wouldn't work inside a similar culture, but being a leader and understanding that allows you to understand your people better, especially if you hire the ones that are like you.

So, yeah, 100% like, we need to be aligned and they're like us. And then we're adding these ingredients. How do we figure out what the ingredients are? Are, like what, what do we. Like we got this vision, who our company is going to be. We've got, you know, this reason of why we're doing it. We've maybe even got a mission kind of plan to accomplish this thing or something at the end of the year. And maybe some behaviors that we want people to have core values and things like that. And then we think about those and we start to say, hey, ingredients. But what's some. One of the things I found that's really helpful in this is to think about the different. Different things that are going to be impacted by your culture. An industry is impacted by your culture. Your team is impacted by your culture. Your vendors, your partners are impacted by your culture. And so when you consider those folks. One of the things I like to do is consider what their problems are. What are their problems, whatever it may be. What's the problems in the industry? What's the problems with people wanting to be in our industry? Teammates that we might have? What are the problems that our vendors face? What are problems that partners that we might align with face, and then coming up with solutions for them, thinking about what those innovative, creative, unique, programmatic type solutions for them. Those help me start to create some of those ingredients, because then I can say, okay, for vendors, we're going to do this thing that aligns with our competitive or family or whatever culture. And you have this thing that now is this ingredient that you're adding to your sauce and saying, okay, and we do that, we do that thing, and everybody starts to realize who you are and what you're about. Have you ever seen anything like that? Like this critical thinking between problem and. And solution, helping with any of those ingredients?

I have. But in my experience, the problems that your culture solves is actually a little further down the river than quite like, you're talking about the base of your culture that's like the headwaters of the river. Right. What, what your culture turns into has to be something that everybody enjoys. Like, it's almost. It's got to be kind of fun. Right. And it's got to be attractive to the people who are going to be participating in it. And so.

And so fun is different for different people.

Yes, 100%.

Fun for an engineer is a completely different thing than fun for a salesperson.

Right. I mean, those are. Those are different things. And so, and so when we need to start adding these additional ingredients to our base, it's almost like we need to have this somewhat creative session. Okay. And I remember one. One company in particular where that we both worked at. It was at Accu Links. I have no problem saying this. When we were working on building out the culture at Accu Links, okay. They got a bunch of us together. These ingredients weren't determined by two or three people at the top. They had a bunch of us together in a room. And you remember this. And we just started brainstorming about what does our culture look like and what would make this a. An enjoyable place to work. Okay. Now, because the room was. Wasn't full. Full. Because there wasn't really that many of us. There were enough of us in there that were different to throw these ideas out. One of them was about. One of them was about maybe the colors that we would have and incorporate. Right. Would our office be pretty plain, Jane? Or is our office gonna have big giant walls painted in orange and then, you know, a carpet that has, like, those colors to it, like beanbags. We had a couple of bean bags on the floors. We had a whole section with a couch area. There was a pool table. We had a. What do they call it? It was a bob. Like one of those punching bags. It was like, you know, and so that. That those components were ideas that came from other people. And so that creativity component is what started to add some character. And so I think involving your other people, right? And then creating a creative environment where those ideas start to flow. We just had this conversation on Monday. We were talking with John, and we were spitballing around how we were going to do the next Top Rep event, right? And a couple of little ideas got thrown out there by some people, and it started to spark more and more ideas. And next thing you know, we're like, ooh, this next one is going to be really good. Okay. Because of that creativity, I think your culture has to work in the same way.

So going back to the secret sauce thing, right? You're. You're over there, you got the vat sitting there and ever. And you're throwing in these different ingredients. And like, that didn't taste good. I don't like that. So we'll pull that one out and we'll try again. And. And you keep adding to. You get just that. Right. Taste that right. Feel to it. But you said something. It creates the character, right? And character is determined, and not by what you think or what you put on paper, but by your Actions. And that's what the ingredients are. Those are the actions that. Yeah, it's. It's the do part of. It's not the what part. It's the what are we doing aspect of your business that gives it its character. And that character becomes. Becomes magnetic to people that are aligned with it. And so we can write it down on a piece of paper all we want to. It doesn't mean a hill of beans. It's a. All that is a dream without any action. And so that, like, that's. That's nothing. You can put a bunch of walls. It's words on the wall. I say teamwork and, and integrity and all the other stuff, but if you don't create actions that align with those words, are they truly your core values? Who you are?

You're. Yeah, the. The behavior. So, like, having the scoreboard is super cool, right? But the scoreboard is a result of your culture, not a. Like, it's a result of your culture that helps to. To. To drive it, but it is not. It is not the thing that creates the culture. Right? So having a scoreboard is a result of having a competitive culture. Right? It's kind of like people who are like, I want my culture to be fun, so I paint a bunch of wacky stuff on the walls, and we have, you know, joke Monday or something like that. Right? But then the office is constantly serious, and people don't really smile that much, and people aren't really laughing that much, and they don't really enjoy themselves, and it's pretty stressful. Well, okay, like, we say we have a fun culture, but. And we've got this. We've got a bunch of wacky crap on the wall, but this place is fun. Right? So. So the question is, okay, well, then is either either a, is fun really a core value, okay. Or, Or. Or B, we're failing to do things that make it fun, and people are feeling that stress. And. And it's. And it's reinforcing a lack of fun inside the office.

Well, the action, the actions you're taking, if there is that stress and that feel of pressure, whatever actions you did that caused that were not in alignment with this culture, core value and something you need to assess like, hey, I want my company to be fun, but it's not fun, what am I doing? Action wise, that's creating. Because you're out of character at that point.

Right? And so that comes in a couple of different ways. And I saw it demonstrated this week in an incredibly powerful way. So when you go to hire people, right? Coming up with questions that allow you to find out if they're going to fit. Now, that's not. That's a tall order. Okay. That's not always an easy. How do you ask a question like, would you consider yourself a fun person? Like, people. Some people I've met people who are honest enough to say, actually, I'm like, I enjoy fun, but I'm generally not the person creating it. Like, I get to participate in it, but I'm not the one who drives fun, right? A lot of people are not going to say that. You know, they would. So asking questions like a question that you. If you're trying to figure out if somebody is a fun person. Okay. A good question to ask them when you're interviewing, because once again, we want to hire people to share these values.

You.

You might ask a question like, what's the most enjoyable time you remember, right? If they answer something like, oh, man, me and a bunch of people tubed a river all day, right? And we got a little bit sunburned, but then we went back to the boss's house and he had something on the smoker all day. And so we hung out in the shade after tubing the river, and we did that, and then we played horseshoes and stuff, and it was just. And you're thinking, wow, that was a lot of fun. If somebody says, oh, man, I had a blast one day because I went on a hike by myself and then I sat in red all day, like, okay, like, it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. That person may or may not fit. So there's that interview process component, right? Then there's also the enforcement of our culture through our reviews. So this is where we start to analyze people's behavior. Once again, I'm assuming that leadership is living out the culture, because if they're not, none of this works. So that's also part of your baseline. So if leadership is living out this culture, then the way to make it real is enforcement. And the way that it's enforced, typically, is through reviews and relationship. We need to be able to have a safe space to analyze people's behaviors and say, hey, Jack, like, I know you're doing a pretty good job over here. You're doing an okay job over here, and this. But I want to talk to you a little bit about some of these behaviors. And some of these things don't really jive with what we do, and some of them do, right? And then lastly, in the most negative component about the culture, Piece is when somebody doesn't fit, you gotta let them go.

This is that whole going back to the secret sauce of this are the ingredients and actions that give you your character. And when we compromise our character, character to the benefit of an individual over the team, we compromise everything about who we are. Our character is. It's hard to earn trust. It's hard to be consistent. Whenever we have one of those things that isn't consistent, it causes people to question our character, whether that's as an individual or as a business. And it's the hardest, like one of the worst and best situation. I'll come back with this. We got to take a break real quick.

We.

We do have these sponsors. We want to make sure that you.

Guys absolutely love those.

Their cultures are amazing. There's a reason we work with the companies that we work with. So we're going to take a break here for one of our sponsors. We'll be right back, and we're going to talk about some of the hardest decisions we've ever had to make because of our culture. All right, we're back from that message from our sponsor. Hope you guys take time to check out all of our sponsors. They are amazing. They do a great job for our clients. The results that they get have been astounding. And on top of that, the reason that we are aligned with these sponsors is because we know we can trust them. We know that we can trust them to deliver for you and stand behind their product. And that isn't always the case in a very tough industry. So. So take some time. Reach out to them if there's some benefit from any of our sponsors for your business. So coming back to this, I have this character, like, this is who my business is and what we're all about. But, man, I got this guy over here, he's selling two and a half million dollars worth of business, but he doesn't fit the character. He's not behaving the way we need it. He's making it tough on our salespeople or on our administrative staff. He's not filling out the paperwork right, but he's living in this world of ego. This is your hero sales culture thing that, hey, I can do whatever I want because I sell the most. I'm the top dog, right? I think many of us are held hostage by that individual going, I mean, I can't let go. I gotta lose two and a half million dollars. And some of the biggest moves I've ever made has been because that. But why does that happen? How does that even happen in the first place? How did that guy get to there? What did we allow to happen?

Well, there's a. There's a number of different. There's a number of different things that could be going on. Generally, I think when it comes down to a salesperson and that two and a half million in revenue, what's holding you hostage isn't that salesperson. It's your own fear. That's what's like. You're afraid. You're afraid that if we let this person go, that two and a half million is gone. Okay? But one thing you have to keep in mind is that the longer you hold on to that person doesn't fit your culture. The more you're compromising, the more you're compromising your own character in the eyes of the rest of your team. So you should be afraid of that more than afraid of losing that revenue. Because what happens is, is now I'm enforcing different rules for different people. And that. And that will cause your people to. To start resenting. It'll cause them to feel a little jaded. You'll start getting a little bit of back talk amongst each other, right? Because here's what'll happen. Your people now are going to start bitching about this salesperson, but they won't do it to you, okay? They're not going to do it to you now because you know, you'll protect them. So what did you just create? You created drama inside your own business because now people are talking amongst each other about this person, which is not cool, okay? But they're not going to.

They don't feel. They're in a safe place.

They can't say anything to you because they know you know, and you're not doing anything about it. So there's that thing that could be going on. The other thing.

Hey, one more thing about. Want to see a dysfunctional family have a favorite child?

Parents do anyway. Come on, Jim.

Kids the same, like, they have the same rules and say, like, we have the same parameters for each one of them. And it, It's. That's how you create dysfunction in a company is by applying different rules to different people and not holding accountable to the character of who you're planning to be. All right, continue. Sorry.

So. So the other thing that could be going on, and this is something that's pretty near and dear to me, that I dealt with not that long ago, was having, like, having such a desire to love and care for somebody that. That was overriding your judgment. Like, like, I can really, like I can really like a person a lot personally and them not be a good fit for my company. And I. And, and, and so there's. There's some of that. Right. And, and, and then also wanting to be liked. Right. But the problem is, is, like, you got to remember, like, not everybody's going to be your. Your friend or your best friend. And when you're working inside of a team, you do not want to sacrifice the relationship you have with the rest of your team because you're afraid of what might happen with this other person. Okay? And so like I said, I dealt with that not that long ago where I just, you know, really have a desire to love and care for people and then find that that might be compromising things that it shouldn't. And so not only could you have an issue where maybe you're afraid of losing that revenue, but you might also be somebody who's. You're struggling with that people pleaser part of you, and you don't want to have that conflict and you don't want this person not to like you. Okay? But that you're in that person's relationship inside that company are not inside a vacuum. It impacts other people. And so. And the reason why. And the reason why I think the, the. This concept of letting somebody go who doesn't fit your culture is so like, we hammer on it and it's negative. It's because. It's. Because it's. It's the. It's the largest single thing that will impact your culture. Hiring people. People get excited when you hire people. We do reviews and we come up with strategies to improve and, and all that kind of stuff. We talk about our behaviors, and that's all great, but where the rubber meets the road is what happens when things aren't being done according to your culture. And all this other stuff is fine and great, but what happens when there's a conflict with your culture? If that conflict is allowed, then your culture doesn't really matter. But when you stand up for your culture, that is one of those things that really drives that. Like, it's like. It's like liquid nails. You know, like taking liquid nails and just spraying that all over your culture, and it just really starts to. And what sucks is that it comes through letting people go that don't fit.

So I always relate that, like the picture I have in my mind of that is Young Frankenstein. Ever see the movie Young Frankenstein?

One of my favorites.

And, and he flips the switch and the lightning hits and boom, it shocks the monster. And any and he goes, it's alive. Like, those hard decisions, like. And you see the result of it because, like, letting that guy go, that does two and a half million dollars, he was a virus. He was causing all the drama, the backbiting, that everybody seeing dysfunction in your business. And you. You do hold to your character. You do let the guy go. It's amazing, like, what everybody else rises up to.

That's the electricity.

And that leader, that leader sitting back there going, it's alive. It is so great. This is like. You see it happen. You're like, wow. I didn't actually believe it until I did it. And it's been cool to watch that with a lot of our clients. I've actually gone through that experience myself, and I'm not willing to compromise our culture for anything. We have to have that. If we. We have that, we'll be in alignment with each other. So we're talking about these ingredients. We're talking about bringing our culture to life. I'm a firm believer that that happens in the beginning, the very beginning of your business. It's one of the first considerations. I don't care what stage you're like, if you're just by yourself, like, here's my vision. This is what I want my company to be. Here's some of my first ingredients. These.

Well, before. Before we move on to that, can I touch on something else real quick? Just so I know we were talking about a little bit about this negative component. Okay. Where you're about to go, I'm in. Let's talk about that. But I want to talk about a positive. A positive behavior that helps to generate and build this culture. Okay. That isn't, you know, firing somebody. You gotta talk about it.

Recognition.

Well, recognition, like, so talking recognition is part of it identifying people who did something. I worked at a company once where they had a. Like a box of names. Okay. And people would get put into that box of names because somebody else identified the fact that they did something that was in line with their culture. So somebody on the customer service department and somebody in the customer service department saw somebody else do something really great. They emailed in this person's name and what they saw them do, and it went into a box of names. And then once a month, they kind of had a company. I think it was once a month, we did a state of the company meeting with the whole team. It's pretty short, but those names would get printed, thrown into a hat, mixed around, and when they pulled name out, they would say, ooh, so. And so was being identified as being called out for doing this thing. And we all just want to acknowledge you and say thank you. And here's that. You can pick from this list of this little thing of gift cards. Like there were gift cards to different restaurants and stuff, or Visa gift card, whatever. And so they got a little prize so that recognition. The other thing I saw, I had a client send me a link to a YouTube video of they recorded their sales meeting. Okay. Now they sent me the link because they happened to mention me in their meeting, which was kind of cool. It was a 35 minute meeting. And I listened to the whole thing, the entirety of the meeting. The sales manager and the owner talked about one of the core values of that company. One of their core values is generosity. And they sat and did a sales meeting about generosity. And it was, it was probably today's Wednesday. And so that was, that was the most impactful thing on me, at least to this point in this week. Week's not up yet, so I don't know what else could happen. But they literally had a meeting and they talked about the concept of generosity and it's one of their core values. It was incredible.

Yeah, if you don't talk, if you don't talk about it, it doesn't exist.

And so, and their guys, and their guys were like, I mean, some of their, like they have these sales guys on there, right? Some of those sales guys are doing pretty great. Some of those sales guys probably aren't doing so great. And so they really, they really were trying to amplify why it's a core value, how it can be demonstrated, what's important about it. And so that, that is the positive side. So like letting people go, okay, I know it's negative, it's huge, it's impactful. But the opposite end of that spectrum is really congratulating, recognizing, identifying, meeting about, defining, talking about, and putting these things into the open. And you know what, if that means sacrificing a sales meeting where we talk about what we got cooking, then that's what it means. We sit down, we talk about one or two of our core values and what it looks like and how we're doing as a team to exemplify that. I just wanted to like throw that.

And I think, I think a leader should, like, he knows the pulse, right? Like, he knows the pulse of his business if he's engaged in his business. And people don't seem like they're being really generous. It's one of our core, let's have a meeting let's talk about it. Bring that home and bring it back to top of mind so people are aware of it. I kind of look at as like basic human behavior. You want somebody to do this thing that you think is important to your business or their result or their achievement or whatever. Reinforce the positive side of that, not the negative. Hey, I noticed you're doing this. I noticed that you cleaned up after the job to help out the crew. That was really generous. That's one of my core values. And I'll tell you what, that'll go way more than telling somebody, hey, man, why didn't you pick up after the crew on that job? You left a bunch of stuff. Yeah. It's a different sound, it's a different feel. And I go, well, screw you, man. Quit calling me out on that stuff. But, man, that positive.

My job.

Yeah. Not my job. Right. All right, so stages of a business.

How do we start?

Yeah, like, how do you start it? Like, I'm a brand new business, or I'm a small business, just me, maybe a couple of people. It sounds a lot easier to build a culture with a big group of people than it is to build it with just me. But if we don't approach it from day one knowing that someday I'm going to have all these people working for me, and I want this to have this feel to it, because this is more than just making money to me. So what do I want that to look like?

And.

And I can remember doing that with any business I've ever started. I've always sat down and put pen to paper. This is what I think this is going to look like in the end. And I'll tell you this right now, it's never that. That vision that I wrote that very first day is never that in the end, it's usually something better, different. But I had to start with an end in mind before I could actually start to add ingredients to it. Because whenever you started adding the ingredients to that thing, you're like, hey, let's put this in. And nobody bought into it. Nobody. Like, that tasted bad. Okay, we're not putting that ingredient in. Let's try a different one, dude. Everybody clicked to it. That was awesome. I remember on the competitive side of thing with the roofing deal, it was so important to me that every little thing, I was looking for a way to compete. And so we had one of our sales guys sitting at his locker. He's sitting at his workstation, and he crumpled up a piece of paper and he threw it across the Room at the wastebasket. And missed.

I see where this is going.

And I saw it. I saw him throw. And I run out there. I'm like, all right, everybody, right now, here's the deal. I just watched Billy throw his piece of paper, and he missed that basket. Everybody's shooting from right here. Everybody that makes it in that basket. 100, Bill, right now. And there was 20 guys in the office. Two people made it. And it wasn't just to show how competitive we were. The idea, the core of that, what I wanted to do to bring that to life was the consequences of being under pressure. If it would have been just shoot it at it and let's see who makes it, that's no big deal.

Well, I mean, like, first thing came to my mind was, that's fun. And I'll bet your guys, like, if somebody just hit the rim, they were really rooting for each other.

They're like.

Like they did. They want. They all wanted 100 bucks, right? But, man, if that thing just hit the room and bounced out, everybody felt the pain of the guy who just missed that.

Oohs and oz and, you know, all that stuff. And. And it was great. And I loved giving out the money. But then I held him for a second. I said, so. The reason I did that is every day that you are involved with this company and this business and our customers, our vendors, our partners, and it's a competition, and there's something on the line that causes pressure. We have to operate well under pressure. We have to be prepared for it. Anytime you weren't prepared for it today, we'll come back next week. We're going to shoot baskets from the exact same spot. There's going to be $100bill on the line. I want you to see the difference that there's going to be between now and then. Same 20 guys gave away $1700 that day. You know what they did the whole week? They practiced. They, like, balled it up the right way, you know, made it tight, practiced from distance, put arch on it, shot it flat, tried to use a backboard. Like, they did all these different things that were really practice so that they could be prepared for the moment. And that was part of our culture, is me driving that depth of knowledge of why we're doing what we're doing to really bring it home. And. And I've had guys come to me since that day and go, that was one of the most important things ever learned at your company. That was like a power moment for us, and that's cool. And so it's top of mind for the leader. Like, where do I see this opportunity to go? Oh, like today with my secret sauce, I'm throwing a new ingredient. Let's throw that in there, see if it tastes good, right? But it's because I know that this sauce, sauce is always cooking, it's always mixing up.

So how do we start that? Right? Is what we're. So, I mean, I, I think. Well, it starts with you, right? So if you're a one man show or one woman show, right? There's nobody else. It's just you, okay? Now if it's you and maybe a couple other people, the first question you got to ask yourself is what's most important to you? Is it honesty? Is it loyalty? Is it, Is it confidence? Is it like, what are some of your personal core values? Like that you look for. Yeah, like that you look for in other people, right? Like if I'm hanging out with a new person I've never really met before, and I'm already picking up that, like they basically much of what they say is kind of bs like that's, that's a turn off for me. Now if you're a salesperson, you're probably like, oh, yeah, oh yeah. Like, you're probably getting sold on their. They're whatever, right? So for me, like, I know that, that, that's going to kind of start to turn me off a little bit. Okay? So you got to start to ask yourself, what are your own personal core values, Your own personal guiding principles, first of all. Then the next thing you got to ask yourself is, what's the kind of place you would like to work? Because here's the thing. If you try to create something based on somebody else, right? Or you something you think other people would like but isn't necessarily you, you're going to hate working there. And then a couple years down the road, if you're halfway successful at it, which probably. Which you might be able to be, some people are very successful at not being themselves, right? Like we call them liars and charlatans, right? But if you, if you do that, you're going to find yourself a few years down the road looking around your office going, I don't like any of these people and I really don't like this place. And I don't want to be here anymore. Now nobody wants that. So here's the thing. Personally, I know that I'm not really into quilting.

Me neither.

Not my deal. Not my deal. Now, I know your wife Michelle does, right? And she does some beautiful stuff with that. And I've actually known people that were in trying to say this with a straight face because I won't offend anybody. There are people that are in quilting clubs, okay? And they enjoy that. Stop it, Jim. They enjoy that, okay? And so that's part of something that's important and special to them. So if they went to build a business and we'll just use this quilting thing, right? They probably want people around them who enjoy quilting, but you got to know that about yourself. So if you're a one man operation or you're just a person with a small team, okay, the first place you start are your own personal core values and guiding principles, okay? Because if those aren't reinforced, you're going to hate where you are. And then you want to start next with what kind of, what do you want the place to look like that you would work where you're like, okay, I'm getting up in the morning, I'm having my coffee, and I can't wait to go into the office because we're going to talk about this hunting trip that we got coming up. And all my guys like hunting and fishing, right? And we're going to talk about that. Or I can't wait to get into the office and razz my boys about our fantasy football team, right? And how I stomped on these people, right? Or I can't wait to get into the office, talk about this book that we're all reading because we meet about that today and talk about this book. Or I can't wait to get into the office and figure out how we're going to compete today. All right, guys, what's the competition? Okay, we're all going to get out, knock some doors, close some deals. How are we going to do this? What are we trying to get right? So that if you can figure out what that environment is that you want to participate in as a leader. So if you're that small operation, start with that. You don't necessarily need to get super deep. Like, if I'm a one or two man show, I'm probably not gonna go buy a giant scoreboard and put on my wall just yet, right?

Because I'll start with something. I'll start with something. I have my own, right? My first competition, my first competition is to beat what I did last week. I'm gonna. I'm gonna start competing now. I'm gonna start making that a recipe of what I do. I'm going to compete against myself. Next guy that comes in, he's going to compete against me. The next guy that comes in, they're gonna. We're all gonna compete against each. And it just slowly builds up to that. But it would never happen if you didn't start here first, saying, hey, I want to be a part of it. I. I love what you said, that you said something really key there, and I want everybody to hear it. I can't wait to get into the office, too. That thing is how it should feel. We're talking about barbecue sauce, right? Like, we brought that up as one of the metaphors here. We want it to be sticky. And barbecue sauce is sticky. Yeah. And. And it tastes good. Like, how many of you, like, have had barbecue and you eat ribs and you, like, lick your fingers when you're done because the sauce is so good. Right. And you want more of it. And the next time you have barbecue, you're like, I go back to that place because I like that sauce. It's sticky. Your. Your culture, the character of your business should feel like that to the point that I can't wait to get in the office. And, like, it should feel like that. And so knowing who you are, I think, was huge. Like, what do you like to do that's big. I think knowing your strengths and weaknesses, super important, too. Like that to what your culture is going to end up being. Your guiding principles are the start of your core values that your company will probably have someday. I think you saying, hey, this is where I'd like to be at a certain time with kind of a mission and a little plan to. It is important to that culture. But then we start adding these ingredients, and they can be very small ingredients. Just. Just a little salt. I'm going to add a little salt. I'm going to compete against myself this week.

And you got to remember, too, that a lot of those ideas aren't going to come from you. That's why it's so critical that when you're small and you're making those first few hires, you know, because when you're making. You're making those first few hires because you probably hit your capacity and you're like, I can't. I need. I need to hire some people. Right. But I also want to keep in mind that down the road, If I've got 20 or 30 people working for me, I want a really super cool culture. So those first few hires are going to be really key that they fit in with who you are and the culture that you're kind of seeing inside your mind. And then those little Those little ingredients you're talking about that you throw in the vat, a lot of those aren't going to come from you. So, yeah, it might come from that next person that you hire. So that's why it's so critical that you hire that. Those first couple hires really fit in with that. And if you make a mistake, you make a mistake. I mean, so you're not gonna. Let me just put it this way. Let me guarantee that you're going to make a mistake. Let's just get that off the table right now. Not every hire you hit, you. You make is going to be a grand slam. You're going to swing and miss on. On some hires. And that's. That's just the nature of the beat. So let yourself off the hook for that one.

I think that's. I think that's one of the ingredients. Who we hire and how we hire them. Like, I think that's an ingredient of your culture. I'm going to hire people that align with this because that's what I believe. And these are the guiding principles and the vision I'm after. So I'm going to hire those people. It becomes a lot more calculated than that dude can breathe and fog a mirror.

So I had this idea, and I haven't really shared this with anybody. And I was just trying to figure out whether or not I wanted to share it publicly, publicly, or I wanted to try and do it first. My little brothers and I all get along pretty well. We all. We're all very different, and we click pretty well. And we've been trying to figure out, since we all live pretty close to one another, what kind of business we could go into together. Like, what kind of. What could we do, right? And Jim, I'm not leaving. So this would be what. This would be something maybe like on the side or something. But we were thinking, like, if we were to start a business together. And the point wasn't. And here's what's interesting. The point of these conversations wasn't so that we could start a business. The business was important, and we would love to do something that would make us some money. We'd love to do, like, a little side hustle of some kind, make some money. The bigger point was so that we could hang out together with. Hang out together with a purpose. And that got my brain thinking. I got to thinking about this idea because we do all kinds of things as people. We play volleyball, we play softball, we go do brewery tours, we do book clubs, we do quilting clubs. And why Are we doing this because we want to spend time together and kind of have a purpose to that time we spent together? Sometimes it's tasting beer, sometimes it's competing against another team, sometimes it's creating a quilt, whatever that is. Right. And so this idea came to my mind was like, if I was to create a list of the top five people that I would love to spend a bunch of time with, who would they be and what would be the purpose behind spending time with them? How could I create a thing that would make us get to spend a bunch of time together? See, this idea came to my mind is that I'm actually starting with culture before the business even exists. And so I don't even know if I can do that yet. So I've got this idea in my head, like, what if I assembled a group of people who I love spending time with and I got them together and we said, hey, we want to spend time together, but we also want to make it productive time and accomplish something cool. What should be that thing that we do?

You just. You just started with culture. And. And I think a lot of businesses, at least the ones I see that are really successful, I think a lot.

Of breweries start that way. I like beer and I like hanging out.

Let's sell some beer. Right. Like, I think the culture came before the actual business. And you can see a lot of stuff like that. And I see more and more of it all the time, kind of this lifestyle type business thing that you see going on. And I like being on YouTube and playing video games and doing video games with other people and wow, you know what? People actually like to watch that. And I can get paid for it. That's cool. It started out playing video games and hanging out with other people that play video games. I think that would be a great exercise for people. Like, who are the five people I would want to hang out with and do something with? Not necessarily to go into business or any of that kind of stuff, but for you to think about who your first hires are going to be, they need to be like, these people. They need to be somebody that I want to hang out with. Nathan, that was really good today. I know that we're on a time limit, so we're going to have to wrap this.

Oh, yeah, we are.

But. But the. The key point I want to make culture isn't in writing and just in your desk drawer or up on a wall. It's a living, breathing thing that we have to add ingredients to remind people of and truthfully have that be the focus of our business. Everything else of the business from a practical standpoint will probably take care of itself pretty well if we understand our culture and lead it. Key point leaders got a lead on that.

Do we want to hear from our last sponsor and then throw a couple parting shots at the end?

Yeah, let's do it real quick. We'll take a quick break. I know we got to do one at the end, so. But we want everybody to watch that sponsor, so we're going to give the takeaways. I got to have a hook party shot. All right, just two seconds here. We'll be right back. You're not using Hell Trace. It's definitely worth the money. That money invested was one cell was already bought. We've got from deny or declined two acts of being bought just because of Hell Trace and the storm reports that they give us. Not only do I know where the storm's at sometimes as they're happening and I can already head right there to the storm, but also after the fact, when I'm out here knocking on doors, I could show homeowners the map and what kind of hail was in that area. We've seen a huge return in our investment, and I have no doubt that you will, too. All right, everybody, we're back here. Thank you for taking time out to listen to one of our sponsors and checking out, really, how we execute this podcast and making sure that it's something that is valuable to you guys. We've been talking about culture today, and Nathan has a couple of, like, I think he hooked you in. If you're still here, he hooked you in. You want to hear what he has to say, Nathan? Go ahead. What are your takeaways on culture and its importance?

So my parting shots here, okay, are to know yourself. Know yourself. Like, it's. It's the. It's the key. It's the key to personal growth. It's the key to being honest with others. There's a quote, right? Be true unto thyself. And that was a Shakespeare quote. Most people don't remember the second half. It's so that you can be true to others.

Well, here's a great example that, for example, you know, because you've seen other companies and their competitive cultures have been successful, and so part of your plan is you want a competitive culture, but you're not a competitive person, and you're going to bring in a bunch of people that you don't align with, and.

You might not like them.

You probably will hate working at your business. Like, it Sounds like it's going to suck for you. Know who you are first. Because once you know who you are, you can align with people that you're going to enjoy hanging out with.

Yeah, that's my. That's my parting shot is know who you are because it's easier to be you than somebody else. And if your company reflects that, you're gonna love that place. And if you hire people that are like you, they're gonna love that place, too.

Here's my parting shot. If your culture isn't defined and it's not alive, stop today and do it no matter what stage of your business you're in. I don't care if you're under a million, at 10 million, over 50 million, if that's not something that is palpable and you can call it out for what it is, it's time to stop and get that done. Because when you do, everything else becomes so much more enjoyable. You're all headed in the same direction. You're all loving working with each other. You're all defending each other, which I think is super cool. And it changes the trajectory of your business in a way that you can't even imagine. I can't even put it into words. It's something you have to do and actually see yourself. Think about those ingredients. Just add a couple to start with. Nothing major or crazy. What could I do? Could I add an ingredient to what we do that's aligned with real estate brokers? And we got this cool program that we want. We want to be a professional company. We want to find professional brokers. This is our professional program that we can build for them. It's a part of our culture. And just start with one little thing. Nothing too major.

Yeah.

Awesome job today, Nathan. That went kind of how I was hoping it would go, so that's good. We will be back next week. Nathan, I will cut you loose and let you out of here, and I'll wrap up the show today for everybody I know. Nathan's gonna go help a company with culture and growing their business today. So go do your thing, man. All right, everybody. That was our episode this week on contractor radio. Our whole goal here is to give you guys the strategies, tactics, tools, information that you need to be successful with your business.