8 seconds is all you have, so learn to pitch from this crocodile wrestler.

Excellent.

Hello and welcome to this episode of Speak PR. Today I am absolutely delighted to invite Martin Barnes, who's joining me from Somerset. Martin, welcome.

Hello, Jim, how are you doing? Lovely to see you.

Yeah, lovely to see you too. Now, you and I know each other, Martin, from Beijing, so I'd expected that we would be speaking across the planet, but you're back due to COVID. Now, Martin, I've always admired what you've been working on, which is helping people and companies to communicate. Tell us, uh, what are you doing now and how can you help business founders to get noticed and to tell their story?

So thank you. Yes, I focus on helping people enjoy pitching and presenting, and specifically founders who are at the very beginning of their entrepreneurial journey, their business journey. So people who have amazing ideas that keep them awake at night, who have seen a problem And have a solution. And my job is to come in and help people enjoy telling the story of how their business can potentially grow.

And how do you do that? Because lots of people have got value locked up in their business and they're just so focused on what they're building that they haven't got the confidence or the skillset to tell people. How do you help them unlock that, Martin? Because that's really the number one secret, isn't it?

Absolutely. I think it's a really interesting question. From my perspective, and having spoken to other people, presenting and pitching is what we do, but we've kind of forgotten that. And I have this story that I tell myself that cave paintings are really the world's first ever pitch, and the cave painting is the slide for that pitch. And so I imagine the cave people in the cave with a torch, with a cave painting, and the community of tribe people is there and they're telling each other how to survive. And that was 65,000 years ago. We are storytelling creatures. That's how we communicate. And we kind of forgot that. And now we are so empowered with opportunities and technology and tools to start telling stories that we kind of need to remember or be reminded how to do that.

So what would be a process that you take people through then, Martin? And you mentioned tools. I'm all into sharing cool technology for people to use.

I love tools, and I go from a whiteboard to a laptop and even a smartphone for pitching. And I believe that you develop your ideas on paper, on a whiteboard, on Post-it notes, where you are thinking freely and you can get into a creative flow state. And then through a process of digitization, organization, editing, you can then choose PPT, Keynote, Prezi, whatever software you want to then share that message. But it's very much process-driven and it goes from analog to digital. And the major problem I see is people jumping into PowerPoint with half an idea and then trying to let PowerPoint help them organize their thinking.

But just before that, before you get into the kind of writing it down, How do you help people distill the essence of the story? Because that's often, for many people, the kind of the first place to start. That's the hardest to articulate what it is that makes them special. How do you help with that?

That's a great question. So it's all about discovery and listening and questions. And so I have a sort of big list of maybe 80 discovery questions that I go through when I'm working with my clients. And they're sort of clustered within very tangible mechanical questions about what it is you're doing. And then there's more emotive questions. Why are you doing it? Who are you helping? And so kind of going through this discovery phase where you explore the questions from end to end and you're just encouraging people to talk. And our job as communication people is to, to listen and then to identify where the story is. And another mutual friend of ours from Beijing, Jade from Gung Ho Pizza, I worked with him developing his brand story as he was developing his latest enterprise business. And I asked him afterwards, I said, what is it that— why did you choose to work with me? And he said, you're very good at helping people understand what they know, but packaging it in a new way. And my experience is that it's often the thing that someone will say on the edge, which is the most important. And my job is to keep my ears open and collect the edges because that's where the real insights are.

And you talk about founders because often if it's the founder who's so busy inside that the edges are almost out of focus for them. So what do you think are the sort of challenges that founders face, say, compared to marketing director of a large company? Because it sounds as though you're really helping the founders to find their voice and their narrative.

A founder is in the eye of the storm, as well as being in the hot air balloon. So they know that all the grains of sand, they know what all those do. But they also have the bigger picture of seeing the potential and the growth and the reason why they have this amazing idea. And their job is tough because they go from The big picture to the small details, the big picture to the small details all the time, like a roller coaster. And I think for other team members of an organization, they have their job, they have their goals, they have their KPIs, but the founder's on the front of the ship with a compass and a map and a destination and figuring out how to get there.

And in terms of the sort of tools you mentioned before, Are there some ways that people can kind of use some tools to help them to articulate? Because not everybody is even comfortable or has the vocabulary to build the story, right? And that's one of these we find why companies go to an agency is to say, will you write this for me? But are there some tools that people can use that can help them to kind of explore the edges of their story?

It's a great, great question again. I mean, I listened to your podcast a while ago and you were talking about the hero, who is the hero? And you had a great set of insights where a lot of people think that they're the hero, when actually it's their customers and their teammates who are the heroes. And that really resonated with me because I remember when I worked in advertising and a lot of the senior people would say, what's the story? What's the story? And I was like, how do I tell a story? And It's only when you sort of go into a little bit of the previous framework of storytelling and, for example, the 3-act play and the protagonist, the antagonist, the climax. I mean, you've outlined it in other podcasts that I think people should listen to. And once you have a basic understanding of storytelling structure, you can then see the map. And I've developed a process called the 3 Beat Mountain. which is a pitch structure, and it's very loosely based on the 3-act play. And so whether it's Star Wars, Romeo and Juliet, Monkey King, Spider-Man, all stories are generally told in the same way on a structural basis, but it's the details of the characters and the drama that make it compelling. And so my structure, the 3 Beat Mountain, is a way of saying, what do you want to say first? What do you want to say second? What do you want to say third? And what's your call to action? And don't say any more than that.

How do you then make sure that, if you like, it's different for each company? Because one of the problems with this kind of formula approach seems to be that there's a danger that everyone's ending up with the same story. Because this is the problem with possibly AI-generated content is that It can all end up looking kind of vanilla, really. So Martin, how do you help the founder to stand out? Because that's really what they want to be doing, right?

Exactly. I mean, very, very good insight and understanding is that a structure is a tool. It's like a screwdriver. So it does the same job. But the carpenter makes the chair. And the founder makes the pitch. And so I'm I always, as well as talking about structures and tools, I talk about your goals and your audience. Because you pitch to the audience in front of you. And the biggest mistake I see founders making is they make their pitch, they go, gosh, I've finished that. Now I can just pitch it at everybody. And then you're watching audiences going, why am I listening to this? This is not about me. I'm, you know, you're the hero of your story. I'm supposed to be the hero of your story. And so a pitch needs to change for every single audience, and you can do that once you understand how the structure works. So the, the audience and what you're trying to achieve with the audience is really important, and then once you know that, you can put that thinking into the structure, and that helps you get to the end.

So here's a question then for you, Martin, as the storytelling genius. If you're creating a different set of messages and a different pitch for each audience, how do you as the CEO, the founder, kind of remain a consistent personality? Because if you think about, for example, you mentioned Star Wars and Obi-Wan, right? You're a mentor, aren't you? If you're the CEO, you're creating a facility or a structure for people to become a hero, move on their journey. But how do you, as the founder, then remain, if you like, consistent in your own personality and your own impression in the eyes of these different audiences?

Absolutely. Then we're now opening Pandora's box and realizing there's another box inside. Because if you have to essentially pitch to every audience, you need to then step back a moment and go, What are my values? What is my mission? What is my vision? And once those high-level concepts are really clearly understood, then you can cherry-pick from that tree of vision the right fruit for the audience in front of you. And again, it's, it's not about sharing everything. It's about sharing what matters to the audience in front of you that's going to move you closer to your goals. And I, I, I'm not an expert in this, but I have an understanding because through failure, I used to overpitch because I felt it was important to get as much information transferred down as possible. But then I overpitched and failed because people were just like, timeout, too much. You've knocked me over. You've hit me with a truck. And I wanted to get in a Lamborghini. And so— Again, once you've, as a leader, a CEO or a leader founder, you develop your mission and vision and then you can pitch the key points of that to your different groups.

You've got a new website called 8secondstocconnect.com. Tell us, is that the window of opportunity that we've got to convince someone to either buy from us or invest in our business?

In a sense, yes. I think I was doing some research recently and I read some academic papers. That talked about attention, talked about message, talked about audience. And there was a lot of ideas that people were coming up with saying, you need to pitch your pitch. You need to have a hook that grabs people's attention really quickly so you know that they're listening before you deliver the main meal, for example, to continue the food analogy. So for example, you go to a restaurant, you look at the menu, that's part of your experience. You choose an entrée that warms up your taste buds. you have your main meal. And the same thing with a pitch is if you jump in with the best bit first, people may have not tuned in yet. And so I came up with this concept of kind of you have this 8 seconds to connect because I was also hearing about TikTok and social media attention span and YouTube video duration. We tune out very quickly. And so I wanted to sort of focus on building on this Harvard-based research to then say, well, how can founders hook attention when they know they've got attention because they can see head nodding and eyes and smiles? Then they can deliver the main message.

So what sort of tools or technologies, perhaps even a little bit off from PowerPoint and Visme, those ones we know, do you have any kind of niche storytelling tools that you think people should know about?

Absolutely. There's a new one that's just come out this year It has a fantastic name. It's called mmhmm. So it's like a gesture.

Mmhmm.

It's an add-on or it's a tool for making Zoom calls more interactive because what it does is it allows the speaker or the presenter to be bigger in the frame of their online pitch. And therefore they're no longer like a little side postcard stamp-sized image, but they're actually part of the presentation. And I've started using it. I got on board with the beta version, so I'm in the beta testing group. I've used it a couple of times and I can feel the higher levels of engagement through using this tool. And this is just one of many tools which I think has been developed as a reaction to COVID and the fact that we're now pitching, presenting, and telling stories in very different ways. But that's really a tool that we use at the end. At the beginning, for example, when we talk about connecting, I recently worked on my pitch. And when people ask me what I do now, I tell them I'm a crocodile wrestler. And I get a smile and a confused look. And then I explain that I have twins under 3, and my life feels like wrestling crocodiles. But when I'm not wrestling crocodiles, I'm a pitch coach, and I help you enjoy pitching. And I've used this with the British Chamber of Commerce in Beijing, with groups in the southwest of England. And I always get a smile. And so I'm sharing this story because my 8 Seconds to Connect is talking about crocodiles, but I'm painting an incredibly vivid picture in the mind of my audience that they will remember. And that is the key. And so I'm working on an online course where I want to help people create their opening pitch that catches attention. So the whole reason of 8 Seconds to Connect is once you've got that attention, Then you have a runway to sell. If you don't have that attention, you're going to drive off a cliff.

You talk about the oral part. How important is, say, the graphic part or the video part of storytelling?

In my mind, there are 3 things that a presenter controls as they pitch. They present what they say as their story. They control how they say it with their performance, their tonality, their eye contact. And then there's their slide design. And to me, the most important is story, then it's performance, and then finally it's your slides. And being able to visualize and tell visual stories where the image that is your background is amplifying your main message and it's not conflicting. So a lot of people will make the mistake of having too many images on a slide Because they want to show everything, but then what they say doesn't really sync up with what they're showing. And so reducing the visuals and choosing one emotive image that really resonates is way more powerful.

What do you say to people who are worried about leaving things out? Because we always have clients that say, I want to put this into the release, oh, and this and this, and they need to know that as well. You know, how do you deal with the anxiety of Kind of leaving something out, people missing something important?

Another great question. I mean, a pitch in a presentation is an incredibly high-value moment because you have somebody's attention. And so a lot of people will pitch the same information they have on their website, and I'm like, don't use someone's attention for what they could read much quicker on your website. use their attention to really start building rapport. And you have to have the confidence and the trust and the bravery to say, I do have more to say, but I don't have to say it now. And you are allowed to leave things out. It's like if you're meeting someone at a networking event and they don't let you enter the conversation, you just back off. Same rules.

And I suppose the point of it is if you've got your hook right, You created a level of interest, which means you don't have to dump everything because you're really starting a relationship, not trying to close a deal in the first 30 seconds, 30 minutes, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I learned this the hard way. I have made so many mistakes of overpitching, overspeaking, being too keen, all of those things I've done. And now I'm like, patience is a virtue.

Well, I think as you say as well, if you identify what your customer is looking for, then actually the narrative is what would it take to make them into a hero? Then it's not about you and sharing everything. It's about what would be the one solution that you could provide to them, right?

Exactly. Absolutely. And it's one piece at a time so that they can have a sense of ownership over what we're sharing.

Now, Martin, you've been sharing wonderfully with us today. If people want to find out more about you, How can they do that?

They can visit our website, which is 8secondstoconnect.com, and here we introduce our methodology, we share some really early insights, and there's also a free PDF which shares how to pitch online. Because again, with our 2020 situation, the change of work, the change of opportunities, people need to really be confident when they're pitching.

Martin Barnes joining me all the way from Somerset to talk story. Thanks so much for joining me today.

Excellent. Thank you, Jim. It's been really great to talk with you.

So you've been listening to Martin Barnes, who's a storyteller extraordinaire. We knew each other from Beijing where he was living for 16 years and has now come back to the UK. So hope you found this of great interest as I have. And if you'd like more of this kind of information, you come to our website at speakpr.co. And until we talk to you again, we wish you the best of health, a profitable business, and that you keep on telling stories and presenting, but trying to get them all within that magic 8 seconds.