Building a personal brand in the dreaded world of wealth management in Shanghai.

Hello and welcome to this episode of Speak PR. My name is Jim James and this is the podcast for everybody that's got value inside their organization and is just looking for creative and low-cost ways to communicate that with their prospective audiences. And today I'm delighted to have an old friend Howard Whitson who's joining me from Shanghai. Howard, ni hao.

Hi James, ni hao. Hello, it's very good to be with you today.

Now Howard is a senior wealth manager of the DeVere Group and also the founder of the Wealth Without Borders initiative. And he's on the show because I've known Howard for many, many years while I was living in Beijing. And he's someone who struck me as knows how to build a brand, not just for the company, but for himself. Howard, tell us what you're doing now and how have you been building a brand around wealth?

Thank you, Jim. So for me, I'm a senior wealth manager in the dreaded realm of financial services. And when I say dreaded realm, for most people, when you say 2 words together guaranteed to make them run in the other direction, it's financial and services. So generally speaking, you know, we don't really get great PR, and many people are very skeptical of our industry as a whole and think it's greed-ridden, think it's full of immoral advisors, etc. And that really is a great pity because like most industries, the majority of people who work within it are honest, upright folk. So my aim in building Wealth Without Borders and indeed in working with the de Vere Group is to build a globally recognized brand known for its value that it brings to people, its life-transforming value, and its integrity, and also to some degree a bit of humor. Because the world of finance, I wouldn't say it could be boring, but I have a background, as you know, Jim, in long ago as a professional actor, and I'm a big believer— yes, we want to talk about the wonderful world of retirement, no, we don't want to put you to sleep while we're doing it. So I would say honesty, integrity, and a little bit of fun are key ingredients for me.

Howard, how are you doing this from a practical point of view? What do you do as a representative of a big brand, a British brand, in China. How have you gone about building the brand for De'VIA and for yourself and this new initiative?

That's a great question. So I've done a lot of investigating really since pre-COVID, since 2019, into ways to fairly represent the brand. And on one level, I'm a big believer in partnerships. We first met through that association in Beijing. And so if we can all fly flags for one another and we belong to members of valued communities, I think we all strengthen each other as a result. And then I'm very much a believer in not sitting in an ivory tower and honing the perfect marketing message, but rather going out to my existing clients to people I trust, to intelligent, capable expats in my case, and asking them, you know, what are the challenges they face, what are the problems, what are the opportunities, what are their goals, and then trying, as the phrase goes, to meet them where they are rather than coming up with glorious messaging that really meets stony indifference. And I have done a fair amount of that. So I think really being humble in a— and listening to one's clients in an open fashion is probably the best place to begin, and to work with trusted partners. I think those two together have been extremely helpful for me.

Howard, you identified at the outset the kind of cynicism that financial planners and wealth managers are met with. How do you get over that first hurdle? Because you talk about, you know, having a conversation with your existing clients, but upstream from that, how did you get them? You talk about being communities, but how do you get across that original divide?

So for me, one of the best ways to approach people is sideways on, and I've built many different assets, if you want to call them that. So I have a podcast myself where I hope to have you as a guest, Jim, if we can work out our schedule. You're looking forward to that? Yes, I'm writing a book based on my experience of expats, and so I will approach people on the basis perhaps of interviewing them. As a potential guest for my podcast, potentially to supply or help with material for the book. I'm also doing lots of educational work where I'm simply providing value with no expectation of reward. Giving, as, as many people recognize, is the most powerful form of, of receiving. We're deeply programmed to be reciprocal in our nature. So I think those things have all worked very well. Just give you one example through LinkedIn. So I have many people I'm connected to on LinkedIn. Rather than saying, I'm a wealth manager and I can save you money, etc., where I would meet with silence, I will often approach them and say, I noticed you're in the automotive industry. There's a great deal of controversy and excitement about Tesla. Where do you stand with regards to electric vehicles as a manufacturer in China? And simply go into a conversation that is really about them and not have an expectation of making a sale, but building a relationship. I only— I'm fortunate, I only work with people I really like and who really like me because Life is too short for conflict, and there's enough conflict in the world. So for me, forming a good relationship with someone, building trust, is not necessarily going to result in business. But if I have a very strong network of people, we all get on, business comes as a result of that. And so I try to reflect that in my approach. Having said that, at certain times I will be much more direct if I really feel that there's enough trust for us. But in the initial stages, I think the sideways approach works very well.

And you're working with a big brand in De'Veer. How do you leverage that? Because what you've explained is a very personal approach. What's the role of the De Vere umbrella brand then, Howard?

So De Vere is a global group and it has tremendous amount of power that I simply don't possess as an individual. So one of the responses to 2020 has been a plethora of webinars, seminars, delivered by the CEO on downwards, an increase in their own marketing materials. So I will post those into my LinkedIn, I will comment on them, I will like and share them. I will— we use an app in China called WeChat, which is, as you know, Jim, is a combination, a monster app combination of WhatsApp, Facebook, and everything else you can think of, Apple Pay and Wallet and God knows what. And so I'll post little excerpts about both De Vere and my own branch within the bigger tree, if you like. One of the challenges, one of the difficulties of that is there's a danger that people will get confused about, well, who do you actually represent, Howard? And so it's important that I keep the flag of independence flying. So De Vere is an independent advisor. I'm an independent manager within that organization, so it does become congruent. And I think, like all of us in life, we all want a measure of independence, and I'm very fortunate to work for a company that smiles upon that and allows my own expression. So Right now, you know, I trained as a professional actor. I've looked at something called lightboard presentations. I don't know if you've ever heard of those. They come out of academia. I think it was Northwestern University in America where professors who were delivering very abstruse concepts to their students like chemical engineering diagrams, rather than turning their back on the students and writing on a whiteboard, basically face the camera, and between them and the camera is a pane of glass, and it's lit in such a way that when they write on the glass, it looks as though they're writing in the air. I had a look at that because I thought, wow, that is a great way to bring my drama skills into the world of numbers. And the only way I could find to do it was to buy a kit from America for $22,000. Well, I don't have $22,000 to spend, So being in China, I went on YouTube, how to build a light board for zero budget, and I had actually, funnily enough, the guy, the handyman who mended our baby's high chair, I said, would you like a project that's a little bit more interesting? And he's built a homemade light board for me for probably a couple of hundred quid, and I've so far done 5 or 6 videos, people can check those out if they want, and I'm now working with another chap called Hollywood Eddie. I can leave you to guess where he worked. So he's applying now Disney production levels to my lightboard, and I just find if you start with something that feels very intrinsic to your own nature, whether you're an extrovert, an introvert, whether you're charismatic or, you know, quite private. As long as it feels like it's an integral part, you know, you can pretty much YouTube whatever you want to do and add the word free, low budget, and you'll probably find ways to start that at very, very low cost. And then if it works, people like it, you then go back to your customer base, see if they like it, improve it, polish it. And then some business comes from that, you can afford then to perhaps reinvest and raise the quality of it.

So let's say you've got these presentations, just talk us through how you're building your funnel. You've got the Devere brand and you've got membership, for example, at the British Chamber of Commerce. Can you just take us through what are some of the technologies that you're using? Is it a CRM from Devere or you've got your own? And how are you scheduling those appointments, for example?

We have a global CRM to ensure that there's no conflict between people. And then I use, for my personal brand, I use Mailchimp for my subscriber list. So I'm building up subscribers for my podcast. That's one way I'm generating leads. I'm taking people from LinkedIn into Mailchimp using what's called a squeeze page. So, or an opt-in page or a landing page, depending where you're from, there's different terminology. So I will offer them something of value. For example, I'll put together a quiz. How do you measure up against other executive expats when it comes to creating and protecting your wealth? I'll incentivize that. I'll offer a free copy of my book, or I'll offer some free consulting for those who take part. And then I will usually have the questions first, and then if they want to receive the results, they put in their email to get that. I found that more effective than asking for an email at the beginning because people are protective of emails. They don't want to get spammed. Once they've seen that the questions are actually quite useful and interesting, they're more likely to do that. And then you're quite right, I belong to the British Chamber, so we're very fortunate in China that normal life is being resumed. And so what I will do is the old-fashioned going out, pressing flesh, and talking to people, meeting them. Nothing quite beats that in the digital world that I've discovered. And we will exchange business cards, and then I'll simply Tell them about my podcast or something else that's going on, and if they'd like to be notified of that, they then go on to that subscriber list. And then I will make offers into that subscriber list. So in my podcast, for example, it's often the case that both my guests and myself are looking at ways to grow our businesses. So we will effectively Go to our list, and I would say, for example, for you, Jim, if you want a master of PR and you want someone who can help you to master it for yourself, then there's no one better than Jim James. Here's his link. And those people then who opt into your page become part of your list and vice versa. So again, I'm, I'm very cognizant of the fact that In a group, there's exponential leverage possible in a way that I can't do when I'm in the British Chamber of Commerce on a one-to-one basis.

Are you doing this all yourself, or are you— you mentioned Hollywood Eddie, I think it was— you built a network of people, and Mr. Zhao or Mr. Chen is helping you build your own technology at home?

Correct.

So are you building teams around you? How are you doing that?

So I'm a big believer in focusing on what I do best, and what I can't do very well, I delegate. So De Vere offers support administratively globally from Europe, and that takes care of a lot of the paperwork. In my office here in downtown Shanghai, I've got 2 people in my team who also help me with ordering lighting from cheap websites in China and making sure they actually work because I'm completely lost in that realm in China. Then I've got 2 assistants in Hong Kong who help me to reach out. I run Facebook campaigns and they will reach out. And then I also hire freelancers through 2 websites. One is Fiverr, Fiverr with 2 Rs at the end, and the other is a website called Upwork. And I have various criteria for making sure those people are, are good and enthusiastic, so I will effectively interview them, I'll give them a test, I will make sure we get on and they get it. And I've got someone, for example, who's actively searching for podcast guests for me. I have a marketing manager who's based in the Philippines. I have a podcast manager. And, you know, I'm paying what I think is a very reasonable rate, and for them also it's very reasonable. And I think it's also very important that I, I reward them. So I give them bonuses when they achieve results, and I take very good care of them because To me, getting good people to work with is a very precious thing. And, you know, I'm in a fortunate position that I'm generating a fair amount of income. Many people have been adversely affected by 2020, and I don't think it's fair to take advantage of those people.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, I hire someone from the Philippines and, you know, I might be paying her $7, $8 an hour, and for her that's a great, great amount of money, and for me that's very affordable. Yeah.

And Howard, just briefly then about your Wealth Without Borders, a couple of moments. How are you building that brand? How does that play into the Howard Whitson brand?

So I, as I was sort of circling back to the beginning here, I went to my clients with 4 or 5 different marketing statements, and Wealth Without Borders, they felt, really represented what I did for them. Expats are faced with the challenges of growing their wealth, protecting it, but also many of them will have lived in different countries. They may be concerned about compliance issues of moving their money around. So that Wealth Without Borders was initially used to describe what I do. And then I realised that wealth is not simply about what I do, but wealth is much more broad. And so the podcast is called Wealth Without Borders Podcast, where I'm interviewing people who simply offer a wealth of advice of whatever type, partially or wholly, to the expat community. And then my book, Wealth Without Borders, unsurprisingly, is the title. And, um, you know, I've now trademarked it in both the UK and China, funnily enough. And so I think it, it just becomes a brand because for me it represents the heart of what I do. And I'm very interested in helping people to be wealthy by aligning their inner selves with their financial goals. And I, I believe that's not unique, but it's very rare. Most of the people I find in my space are very much focused on product. I'm really focused on meaning. And so for me, Wealth Without Borders is a meaningful statement that operates on a number of levels for a number of people.

Wonderful. Now, Howard, if people want to find out about you, where can they find you?

So they can go to wealthwithoutborders, all one word, .net.

Howard Whiten, thank you so much for joining us today on the Speak PR Podcast, all the way from Shanghai.

Thank you for having me, Jim. It's been a pleasure.