Entrepreneurship with Environmental Heart | Startups with a Green Heart

Many of us would like to make a contribution to the environment, but we've got day jobs and bills to pay. And so it's not always quite so easy. You know, I personally have been catching sycamore seeds and planting them out. And in a very small way, I'm trying to grow back some good foliage here in Wiltshire. But my guest today has managed on a different scale to balance what he does for work with what he does for the environment. So we're going to talk to my guest today who's all the way over in New Zealand, a place called Rotorua. And we're going to talk about how he's managing to work with environmental agencies and use that to fund his work actually in the environment and environmental development itself. So if you're interested in how you can get involved and play a part in improving the environment, but still keeping your day job, Callum Armstrong is going to be the man that you're going to want to listen to. Callum, welcome to the show.

Hello, Jim, and thanks for having me here. It's such a pleasure to be here.

It's a pleasure to have you join us. And Rotorua actually has a fond memory for me because I went there for the New Year of 2000, if I recall, and enjoyed it greatly. did a helicopter ride around the lake. It's a beautiful, beautiful part of the world you live in, but also you've got some environmental challenges that you're involved with down there. So let's talk a little bit about what you're doing at your company, Paste and Publish, and then we can talk about the work you are doing with the environment, how you're balancing the two. So Callum, tell us about Paste and Publish first.

Yeah, great. So Paste and Publish, uh, Started out of a need for income, essentially. It was a very simple need. I was about to go on, we call it an OE or go backpacking through Asia, maybe in about late 2017. And I said to a friend who had just started a marketing agency at the time, I could do some work for you on the side. It would be maybe a bit of fun and it might help you, but no pressure. And a few weeks later, he came to me with work and that evolved into my career of the last 6 years, which has been content marketing, B2B marketing, and coaching and building teams. So a few months later, I started a business that was designed to help the environment by creating demand for native plant extracts. And we were selling skincare products in this specific company. And while I was building that, I used marketing contracting to pay my bills as I built it. Lockdown hit and there was excessive demand for our services that turned into an agency. We got to about 9 people and I realized that it wasn't quite my place in the world. And so I evolved that into a coaching business. And so these days I work with B2B services and environmental companies and essentially come in and help them to build their internal capabilities so that instead of just getting the bread from the bakery, they can own the bakery. They can run their marketing team, they can produce content, they can lead the market, their industry. their sector, and they can own the results to do that over time. So that's the promise we make. And these days it's nice and boutique and small, which means that I can create the space to earn my income, to do my business, to get really good results for clients, but also to have time to help the environment in a number of different ways.

Callum, I love how you've managed to transition from agency into providing guidance for people to learn those skills, recognizing what you did and didn't want to do, which is a really important part of the entrepreneur's sort of growth story as well, isn't it? Because then if you're in the zone of what you want to do, then you're going to be much, much more successful. And you're successful now helping your clients develop— you call them customer-getting machines.

Yeah.

So tell us, how do you do that? What, what What is the basis or the foundation of a customer-getting machine?

Well, I think we need to take a step back and look at what is a business, a B2B service business. Essentially, a B2B service is a company that solves problems for other companies. That can be an accountant, a lawyer, a commercial cleaner, a consultant, a coach, a number of other service providers. But in essence, there's a painful problem that's causing hassle and cost. to a, and risk to a business, and you're in there to solve it. So we are building and working with companies to build, you might call it a funnel, you might call it a way of getting customers in one way or another. But I think to really put into context what we're doing, we need to take a step back and look at how does their business function as a whole. And any B2B service is serving customers. So first we make sure that their fulfillment is working. So they're solving an important problem. Customers are happy, they're getting results. They're either sticking around or coming back. They're referring people. They've got capacity to grow. They've got the right sales processes to turn leads into customers. And then a customer getting machine is essentially the lead generation engine that you put on top of it. That can be marketing, it can be content, it can be ads, it can be outbound sales, a lot of different things depending on the situation of the business at hand. But yeah, I think it's just whenever we talk about creating this automated or scalable way of getting customers, we just need to put it into context of where in the growth journey does that fit for the business. And that's essentially how it fits in.

And I think you've also mentioned something in there which often doesn't get talked about, which is fulfillment, because many companies are focused on the marketing and are losing as many clients as they're winning because the fulfillment hasn't all been taken care of. Callum, you're in New Zealand, you're a long way from, from, from many places, uh, so how important Is the fulfillment for your clients and what do you help them to deliver? Or is it all virtual that you're delivering, your clients are delivering?

So it really depends on the client and their business. I've got one example as an accountant that serves a particular niche. Another one's a special type of commercial cleaner that serves a particular sector within the market. I've got others that have different specific problems they solve. A2X was an example. We wrapped up that arrangement after we helped them bring their team in-house. But, you know, different businesses solve different problems. But when it comes to getting customers, they, you find yourself in this funny situation where you might be good at your fulfillment. You might be good at doing the service that your business is there for. But it's a specific skill set to grow your business in terms of marketing. And when a lot of companies get to the stage, they might outsource it to an agency, but there still needs to be someone within your company to manage that agency, to hold them accountable, to give them the right briefs and context to be present. You know, any agency worth their salt will tell you that they need someone in the company like that to work with to get the best results. If you hire an employee, you've got to manage them. You've got to actually be able to talk with context of what they're doing. You need to know that they're going to do a good job. If you outsource it to a contractor or bring in a VA, you still need someone to lead and manage it to grow the program of your marketing. Otherwise, you're throwing good money after bad, essentially. So yeah, what we do is we'll come in and help them to build that capability because it's not what people have necessarily learned or known naturally in most businesses.

Yeah, and I think that your skills going into the different companies, as you're learning from each company, of course you're bringing received wisdom, aren't you, from the other clients into the new client. So each client that you have is benefiting from the experience that you've gained collectively, which is really, really valuable for them.

Absolutely.

Let's just talk a little bit about The environmental work you're doing, Callum, because you've built a very clever arrangement, haven't you, where you can earn some money from, if you like, the traditional side of the business to do another kind of work. Do you want to share with us the model, the structure that you've got and what it means you can accomplish?

Yeah, for sure. So I think just one note I wanted to add to your last point was the joy of coaching is that you get to compound the learnings from one client to the next. And sometimes, you know, I'll say to a client, will say to me, I've learned and grown so much from you. But what they don't see is how much I've learned and grown from them, even if I don't expect that at the outset. I think there's a certain level of personal fulfillment beyond the financial gain and beyond the value you deliver that comes from coaching. But to look at the business model, I've always run my business like this. I've never intentionally done it, but maybe there is something to be said for it. Essentially, I always have 10 to 20 hours a week of client work, whether that's billed hourly or monthly or however that looks. I've got 10 to 20 hours of consulting coaching work and that finances my life. It pays my salary. I have a, um, pay my salary from my business and the client service Pays my salary. So it's a really simple operating structure. And then that creates the time and the finance to pursue environmental goals. So within my company, I provide subsidized rates to environmental groups where they have funding and they're able to hire a marketing or comms person, but they don't have maybe the skillset to deliver on their promises or they don't know what they want. We'll come in and help them build their capabilities. So we do that for a few clients. And then we also have a charity, my partner Anna and I, it's called Conservation Amplified. And the whole aim of Conservation Amplified is to make environmental biodiversity conservation mainstream. So I think we've lost our connection with nature as a people. You know, we used to be much more connected to our wild places and as we've developed, our technology's improved, all these different areas of our life have changed.

Yeah.

We have become much more urbanized and through losing that connection with nature, we lose the awareness of the needs of nature and really the appreciation and value for the people that are helping nature. And so what we do is we run a podcast called the People Helping Nature Podcast. See you are on screen. And it, in that podcast, we get people on that are doing good things to help the environment and we tell their stories. We interview them and then we turn them into social media content, which then gets them out further. further into the world. So it's quite a nice combination of bringing content marketing skills to helping the environment. And then I also do a bit of work for another company that essentially, it's called Carbon Invoice and they make it easy for small to medium businesses to plant native trees to mitigate their carbon impact. So it connects to your accounting system. Within 3 minutes, it tells you how many native trees you need to plant in your local community to— to mitigate your carbon emissions. And then it manages the whole entire thing for you. You can bring your team to planting days locally, and then you, um, they, they provide all the reports and procurement info and marketing materials, et cetera. So I guess between those 3 angles, my business, the work I do with, with private clients finances everything I do. And it means that I don't have to raise millions of dollars to do this. I don't have to hit a specific target. And if it's better or worse than that target, that's inconsequential because I've made a commitment to do this. The model's worked for 6 years now and it just keeps getting more and more effective. So I think it's definitely a viable way of doing what you want with your life, living with purpose, but also having a foot in the business world and doing that as well.

I love how you've managed to get that balance, Callum, because It's not good. Most of us, yeah, not easy, I know. But this, that you're getting the balance of generated income, because from a practical point of view, most of us need to do that still, but making a contribution and using the same skill sets actually across the different profit and nonprofit parts of your, of your life, as it were, with the Um, conserve— it's conservationamplified.org for anyone that is listening that would like to find out. This is People Helping Nature, the People Helping Nature podcast. Kind of, you know, why did you choose to do a podcast for, for this as opposed to, say, media relations, as opposed to Instagram or TikTok or, or Facebook? Well, why, why did you choose to use a podcast?

It's a really good question. At the start of this year, I started podcasting as a guest. Initially, I did it to promote my marketing services, but then I found out I just love podcasting. It's, you get to meet fun people like yourself, Jim. And, and it also kind of keeps you sharp because if you say silly stuff on a podcast, the world sees it. So you kind of, you get smarter in the process. And it's a fun way to network as well. I was doing networking before that and I just found it was a lot more effective to spend those few hours a week talking to people online. than in a group. There's benefits to both for the record. But when we, so we used to be called the Reforestation Fund and we rebranded our charity to Conservation Amplified. Now, the first few years of our life as a charity, we were partnering with brands, raising money on a per product sold basis and using that to plant native forests. But we found that in a lot of the conversations we were having that it was actually a lack of awareness that was the barrier, not a lack of funding. So awareness comes before you're willing to put your money on the line. And a lot of people we spoke to weren't really aware that there were even problems or that they were pressing or that the solutions were right there and they just needed funding. So we decided that we needed to raise the profile of the environmental space. That started off by making a mini documentary. We are about to publish it in the next month or month and a half. And it's on how Campbell Island in the sub-Antarctic Island group of New Zealand was eradicated from rats and how that changed how they eradicated rats all over the world. However, it's been a few hundred hours of work for a 30-minute documentary. It was the first documentary we ever made. So learning, learning headfirst. But That's not really scalable. We can't feature many projects unless we have a substantial team to do this. So yeah, we decided that through running a podcast, we can get more people's stories out there and we can do more to promote it. And it just means that it's also a format that people tend to listen to more in their day-to-day lives. So in a podcast, you can do it while commuting, while you're at the gym, while you're cooking dinner, while you're going for your daily run. Whereas, you know, to sit down and watch a documentary, you need to actually set aside time. So that was a big decision factor. And then by that point, I'd done maybe 10 or 15 podcasts as a guest. And I just had so much fun. I said to Ana, we need to do this. Turns out there was no environmental conservation podcast in New Zealand apart from one that was started by our government department. And there was one that I think had 3 or 4 episodes and stopped. And so we landed on quite a good model and we've just had all different people wanting to be a guest since we started. So it was quite a lucky stroke, but I think it's just a nice format to create content in and it's heavy enough of a lift that you get good, interesting, insightful conversations, but it's not so heavy of a lift that you have like 6 months production on a piece.

Yeah, and I think that you've Got a couple of things in there, haven't you? One is that the conversations you have with podcasts could be quite easy, and from a post-production point of view, they're much less demanding. You do screen share, for example, if you want to share a video but you're not in the field.

Yeah.

And the very recording setup with you and me both sitting here capturing it on Riverside, all the, all the footage is already in one place. All the rushes, as they call them, are already in one one platform ready for post-production, aren't they? Whereas if you're out filming, you've got all of that work and things like sound levels and lighting and logistics. So the podcast is really, really flexible that way. And also, of course, that it's global, isn't it? You know, you can be in New Zealand, but podcasts are available to be heard around the world. Simultaneously. So any Kiwis living overseas that are interested in what you're doing back in New Zealand can be in touch with you there, which is amazing.

Absolutely. I love podcasting. The only regret I have is I didn't find out about it 5 years ago. It's, um, with all the AI content coming out, I do believe that, you know, my background is in written content and I do believe that it's just a lot harder to perform there. Whereas in podcasting, you're essentially taking the essence of humanity and you're putting it into a distilled version. Like we're talking, you've got a unique personality, Jim. I've got a unique personality. We've got stories and insights and we're talking about them. And if you think about what's going to be the most compatible with AI as we go forward is how do we bring our own context and bring our own insights into the content we create. And by instead of distilling that into a really nicely polished article, Which has its place, by the way. But instead of doing that, if you create your content through a podcast, it just means that that post-production editing and promotion and turning it into socials and clips and mid-length videos, all these different facets of how you can use technology is just well set up because the initial content or the initial footage or context you've created is so human and so in-depth on a particular aspect.

Yeah, and I think the other thing about a podcast is that you're co-authoring some content. You and I are co-authoring the show, but if you ever tried to write something with someone, even a Christmas card is quite hard to co-author with somebody, right? No, I want to write this, I want to write that. Who, who physically writes the next line, right? So podcasting is essentially a really good collaboration Medium, I think. So that's another, another great aspect of it as well. So, Callum, with the content and the conservation, where do you see yourself going to, if you like, get maybe more partnership between Conservation Amplified and either government agencies or corporates? Or the, if you like, the general public to help you to pursue the goal of planting out more trees, more native woodland in New Zealand?

So planting out native woodland is part of it. Um, but what we're looking at is the whole ecosystem. So in some areas, you need, in a lot of places, you need predator control because we've got all these introduced possums and rats and stoats and wallabies and stuff. So The specific work you do in different places will depend on what's needed on the ground. Now, there are a lot of good groups out there that are doing that work on the ground and they need awareness and they need funding and they might be in your backyard and most people don't even know they exist. So the, I guess the main goal is getting their awareness in the forefront of people's lives, making them a bigger part of the conversation daily because They're the heroes of our generation, not us. We're just the ones telling their stories. Um, as far as where do we go next, I'm one to jump to answers. Being an entrepreneur, I want to get to the strategy. I want to take the action. I want to launch the business. I want to bring things to life. And I'm really holding myself back from doing that in Conservation Amplified because, you know, I could tell you here's an operating model that's going to generate revenue. We'll get funding from over here. We'll grow it in this way. But we're just taking it a bit Slower and taking a few steps back so that we can really get the podcast down pat, like make it the best content in our space. And so that we can have the space to really listen and lean into more about what does our sector need? What are the opportunities? I think to summarize, we don't know where we're going. And I think that's a good thing because we can drive direction and we can chase it. at, you know, with extra turbo in the car and no brakes. But if we want to make this last, I think it's important that we just take it a bit more methodically. And that's what we're doing.

But it sounds as well that you're using the podcast as the platform for those conversations to happen so that you're listening as much as talking. And in a way, that's the essence of Good business development as well, isn't it?

Absolutely. I think one of the— and the insights that we're getting from guests are changing our view on the world, on the podcast, on the environmental space in so many ways. And we are talking to the leaders in our sector. So it's, you know, we're getting very refined insights over many decades of these people operating. But one of the things that keeps coming back is It needs to be joyful. It needs to spark your curiosity. And I think a lot of what we do in our work, we don't necessarily want to do, but it pays the bills. So we do it and that's okay. But what I'm finding is that some of the most successful projects, some of the most, I don't want to say viral, but the most conducive community initiatives to getting people involved are the ones that bring joy, that that really make people interested. And so, yeah, I think a big part of listening is listening to what makes you curious because what you find curious, Jim, I might not and vice versa. And that can influence the fact that if you were running this charity and I was, we might develop it in 2 different ways. And that's going to depend on our interests. But ultimately, like, I plan to lead this for quite a while. And so it's important that for us, it's really interesting because then we'll give our best effort for a lot longer than if it just becomes an obligation.

Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds as though podcasting has also become sort of a strategic platform as much as it may have started off as a sort of a content outlet. It sounds as though the very nature of the platform has changed the way that you're using it as well.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, um, it does become part of your identity, doesn't it? As you go through it.

Yeah.

I find it's, it's, uh, yeah, you get content, you build relationships, um, that grows your audience because your guests, uh, they share it with their audience and vice Versa, so everybody wins. But yeah, I think those relationships then result in you hearing about things that you wouldn't have heard about otherwise. You meet new people that have connections of other connections, et cetera. But how about you, Jim? Because you've done podcasting for a lot longer than I have. How have you found it changed the way you operate?

I think that, I mean, obviously there's an interview with Callum Armstrong. He's turning the tables on me there. Turning the mics on me. Um, I think that the, the initial part of a podcast is that you have something that you'd like to, you know, maybe share. Uh, certainly I started off sharing my, my knowledge on the podcast, and then after 200 episodes, I was, I was kind of bored of my own voice, and I thought I need to ask other people what they Think. And then that's sort of phase 2. And then phase 3 is when you start to see the podcast as a way to answer questions, bigger questions that are facing you, them, and everybody. Um, and so now, certainly with The Unnoticed Entrepreneur, I'm having conversations with guests that are looking at bigger issues rather than it being seen as just a marketing platform. The podcast becomes the forum for conversation rather than being the means, you know, the means to an end. It actually becomes the platform. Um, and it's almost like the podcast is transparent. I don't think about it as a podcast anymore. I think of this as a, a way to have really interesting conversations with people in, in parts of the world I never would have otherwise got to, um, to discuss what people are doing and where the trends are happening in the world and how we can maybe influence things for the better. So that, that for me, the, the— my relationship with the podcast and podcasting has evolved. Actually, I'm getting up to nearly 900 episodes.

Wow.

Um, and yet each one— yeah, but each one is a joy, you know. I really don't think, oh, I've got another one to do, I wonder how I'll finish. It's another opportunity to have another interesting conversation with someone. And I think that was unexpected. And in a way, the final point on that is, you know, when you do running, I'm sure you know, I've done a couple of marathons. And when you first train and you get to 5, 10K, you think, how am I ever going to do 42? But actually the second marathon was much easier because you're not wondering whether you can finish the marathon. You're thinking, oh, how can I improve how I run the marathon? And, and I think that's the same with podcasting. After a while, you feel so comfortable with all the technology and stuff that actually you can focus on the conversation and what's coming through the microphone and, and trying to listen to what you're sharing with me in a way that's not filtered by the technology, but just enabled by the technology.

Right. Yeah, I see what you mean. What, when you were talking, I was just thinking about how Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan's podcasts have evolved over time. And there was a video I watched on it a while back, and a point they made was that they quite often use the podcast as a way to answer questions that they're not sure about. And by answering those questions, it makes the content so much more interesting, which comes back to your point about it being a forum for insightful conversation. You know, if you, um, yeah. And I find that when I'm bringing guests onto our podcast, as I've quite often, we've invited them on partly because we have 20 different questions we want to ask them and we may as well record it than pick up the phone.

Yeah, and I think, Callum, we're, you know, we're sort of diverging a little bit off the original topic, but I think what's interesting is that as you're doing content creation as a way to build the brand and to communicate and to fulfill this ambition around Conservation Amplified. We've, we've kind of come across this, this point that, you know, the podcast is, is not necessarily a medium to sell, although people are using it for that, but it is a, it is a medium for dialogue. And, and in, in that sense, that's the ultimate content, isn't it? Because it is thought leadership, um, and, and collaboration. So I think that's absolutely fantastic. I never would have had the chance to hear about Conservation Amplified. If I didn't have this podcast, you wouldn't have reached out to me. And I think that's the joy. And as I've got the third book now, and I've got people on LinkedIn posting that they're in the book and they're excited about their stories being in print, that's another level of excitement that one can get from, from, you know, having these conversations, is you can curate those and make them into Platforms to share what's important to you with, with audiences on a greater scale than you could on your own.

Oh, absolutely.

But Callum, this is about you, not about me.

For sure, for sure. I've taken off, I've turned it around.

But Callum, let's— no, you have, which is very clever of you. But now, um, if people want to find out about you— before I get to how people find out about you, I do want you to answer 2 questions. One is your number one tip for people Um, that are trying to balance their desire to work in something meaningful for them— conservation, wellness, whatever that looks like for them— how— what's your, your tip for someone that wants to balance what's important to them with what they need to do financially?

I think you need to ask what your priorities are and what you really need. We get told a lot of messages from society about what we need to be successful, to be happy. And quite often what we need is a lot less. So, I would happily run my business with triple the income. But the fact is that if I go for triple the income, I don't have the time to spend on my charity. So, I'd rather earn a little bit less and do that. Do I need a fancy car or is that going to mean that I have a lot more income requirements that is meaning that I'm taking time away from doing what I want to do? That's a question to ask. And I think the other tip I would just keep in mind is if you look after your customers and you're in the right industry, they're going to stick around for years to come. If you deliver value and deliver results for them, you don't have to have 10,000 customers. You can actually do this with a small number of customers if they feel like you are such an important part of their business that they want to keep you around. So coming back to what I was saying earlier in the podcast, we should focus on fulfillment. We should focus on delivering value, solving real meaningful problems, and making sure that we do that extremely well before looking at anything else. Because if you've got that, you can choose to focus on purpose. You can choose to focus on your business. You can choose to just do the bare minimum to run your business, but you can stay self-employed for as long as you like, as long as you do that.

Callum, thank you. That's really reassuring for everybody listening that it is possible, but it is about making the decision about what you need, not necessarily what you want. Right. And deciding what your higher purpose is. Callum, a book or a podcast from you, please.

Um, you've probably heard this book before, but one that really changed my life was The Secret by Rhonda Byrne. Just framing your mind around looking at what you want and going for it. I've read, read that probably 5 or 6 times and it always comes out with new wisdom. About how to create the life you want.

The Secret by Rhonda Byrne. Thank you for that. No, that's been a secret that you've, you've now shared, so thank you. I hadn't heard of that, Callum, so I should look into that one. Thank you.

It's worth reading.

I thought you were going to talk about the, uh—

It's definitely worth reading.

On the Christmas list, on the Christmas list. Callum Armstrong, if you want to find out About you, where, where can they get you?

So if you'd like to connect for a chat, LinkedIn, Callum Armstrong, I think is my LinkedIn handle. Uh, for our charitable side of things, go to conservationamplified.org. The People Helping Nature podcast is currently on Spotify and YouTube, coming to other platforms soon. And if you would like to talk about marketing and marketing coaching support, go to pasteandpublish.com.

Callum, I'm glad that we've been able to cover a lot of topics in a short amount of time. Thank you for joining me on the show.

Thank you, Jim. It's been great to chat.

So Callum Armstrong in New Zealand, Rotorua. Say, one of the joys of podcasting is that one gets to meet people from all over the world living very different lives, but who have a common thread about a desire to share openly and in a way that is giving to others. And Callum is giving on lots of levels. And so thank you to him for coming on the show. If you've enjoyed this, do please share it with a fellow unnoticed entrepreneur and do review it because it helps me to know what you think of the show. And until we meet again, I just encourage you to keep on communicating.