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Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur with me, Jim James. And today we're going to Bangkok, Thailand to talk to Darshan Mehta, who is the CEO and founder of a company called iResearch and also the author of a book called Getting to Aha. Darshan, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Jim. Pleasure to be here.

Well, I know you're with us from Thailand, but normally based in the US. So thanks for taking time out of your busy travel schedule to join me on the show. Now tell us, with all of your experience, How do you help entrepreneurs to get noticed?

I help them gain insights because I truly believe today's insights are tomorrow's facts. If you look at the world around you, the things that we take for everyday, you know, part of our lives at one point was an insight that someone came up with and now they become a fact. I mean, a perfect example is look at our smartphones. If you think about it, it wasn't that long ago that we didn't have these smartphones. that did all the things that they did. And they've even evolved, you know, since the first portable phones. But that all resulted as an insight that was developed. And if you think about it, these insights are the real key to differentiate, to innovate, and ultimately to build loyalty.

Yeah, look, I think that's fantastic. And as you rightly say about the iPhone, that was someone's insight first. But one of the challenges for entrepreneurs is that we tend to be quite product-focused. We think we've got an insight into what the market wants. And yet, actually, most companies fail because they develop something that people don't really want to buy. So how does iResearch help? Because research itself can be quite expensive, can't it? And quite slow to gather. So how can you help with your innovation?

Well, you know, sometimes a lot of times people see research as ivory tower and costly, expensive. But if you think about it, let's just simplify it. Research is actually structured curiosity. What you want to do is you want to probe into the mind of the consumer. And find out what they think, feel, and what are their triggers. If I was to go back and give you an— let's talk about the iPod that came out. When the iPod came out, there were plenty of MP3 players on the market, but Steve Jobs was in a position to see that the price of hard drives was coming down to the point that you could fit a lot of content on there, but also to the point where it could actually fit in your pocket. And he was a big music fan, but I think he shared a frustration that a lot of other people did, And that was that, you know, you had to take your CDs and you couldn't take your entire music album, all of them with you. And so that was a frustration. But knowing the technology that could solve that helped him solve a problem that he could see in the real world. Now, you know, they talk about that they never really did focus groups, but Apple actually does a lot of research. But they don't necessarily do a focus group to find out what people think is the solution. It's often finding out what are their pain points and the things that really drive them crazy. It's really up to you as a person who knows your industry and the products to come up with a solution. So I think sometimes research gets a bad rap because it's like customers aren't going to tell you to build a, you know, faster car, better, you know, more horses, whatever, but they will truly tell you their problems. And that's something you should really believe in and trust. But that's where you come in with the insights from your industry or your product knowledge and say, you know, I think I can solve that pain point.

Yeah, I think it's a really great insight that research isn't looking for the answer to the problem, it's identifying the problem, right? That's actually a really critical difference, I think, in the way to look at research. But research can be very expensive, Darshan.

Yeah.

And I know that having tried to do that for clients in the past, getting the dataset, getting the questions right, and then getting the number of people to answer that makes a representative sample. What's been your solution to that with iResearch?

So there's 2 methodologies when it comes to research. One is quantitative and the other is qualitative. And so most of you now are familiar that there's many tools out there available to do online surveys. And the cost for those have come down tremendously to actually create the survey. But there is still a little bit of work to do a good survey with good questions. And that requires really more than anything is having more conversations and you'll learn to have better questions. But having done this for many years for clients, you know, I've been doing research for many clients, I found that they often want to get at the why, but they often think surveys are the way to go because one, they're familiar with it or it's been more affordable. But then they often get frustrated with the research because they still can't get at the why. And to get at the why, you actually need conversations with your customers. And it can be as simple as just having conversations one-on-one with customers or actually doing focus groups. And that's where iResearch is trying to introduce a platform so you can do them on a regular basis, anytime, anywhere, and make it much more affordable. You know, basically a cost per session would be having a very nice lunch for 2 people. And so that makes it much more affordable and reasonable. But the key is really simple, is just having more conversations so you can tap into these insights. And I would even argue that if you were to do focus groups or have these conversations first, you will actually end up with better surveys because then your questions are going to be more relevant as well as your answer choices. And that's going to allow you to get more into a survey and more useful data on the back end. Oftentimes people get into a survey and they don't realize how they can actually use the data, and what they end up with are lots of questions that would be nice to know but at the end are not very helpful. to get at their ultimate goal or objective. And that's where I think having conversations first could result in better surveys and then get at exactly what it is you're trying to achieve.

So with iResearch, how do you solve that problem of actually having dialogue before, if you like, you do a broader scale survey then?

It's just not a survey, it's really a conversation that you're having online with maybe 10 to 15 customers. And what you're doing is really Unlike surveys, we don't need a random sample. If anything, I'd actually argue to have a more homogeneous sample for the focus group. And the reason is your goal is to actually do a deep dive in people who have similar backgrounds, interests, and maybe even purchase behavior, because you want to find out what really motivates and triggers them to actually act or not act. That's what you're really trying to do. But once you get those insights and a deeper understanding, now you have a better, I think, foundation upon which to build the survey questions and the answer choices.

Right. So with the platform, how does that differ from just, say, inviting a number of people to a Zoom call?

Sure, you can do that.

To discuss an issue.

But a true focus group really involves managing 3 different roles. One is the moderator, the other are the participants, and a third of the clients. And what our facility does allows you to have direct conversations between the moderator and client during the session. So imagine yourself in the real world, we do focus groups behind a mirror of the clients, and if they want to pass notes or give feedback, they have to send somebody around and interrupt the session to actually do that, whereas online you can do that very easily and quickly. And then the other is we have a set of tools that makes it very easy for the moderator to show images, video, and so on. And I've done— I've found an interesting thing. I started doing online focus groups back in '98, and I wasn't sure if it was going to be, you know, really something that you could do online. And I've tried, you know, from audio to telephone to video and everything, but I've actually come around to really appreciating, like, chat-based focus groups. And I'll tell you why. Because right now only one of us can talk at a time, but imagine having 10, 12, 15 people And, you know, when you pose a question, there's always someone who's going to be more talkative or more willing to come out with an opinion out of the gate faster. But often you don't hear from the other people as much. But with a chat-based, when you pose a question, I found a couple interesting things. One, you hear from everybody, but then they can still react to what others are saying. So as a result, you end up with a much deeper, more richer transcript in the end. And I also found an interesting dynamic is that when people have to answer questions in writing, there's just an extra step of thinking and articulating that really comes through. Again, we tell people, don't worry about your grammar, having perfect, you know, English, or as long as we can understand what you're saying. But I still find that extra step of articulating and, you know, writing it down, you actually get some more deeper insights as a result of that.

I will ask you, because you're in Thailand today, and, you know, having spent 25 years myself in Asia, language can be a barrier too, especially if maybe the moderator is not a native speaker in the local language. Is your platform iResearch multilingual? How are you covering off what is just a structural issue in a group session?

Well, you can do it in any language, but you would need to have a native-speaking moderator that can do that. But, you know, there's many people nowadays that are multilingual. So let's just say, for example, you happen to be in the US, And you wanted to do research in China and you spoke Chinese, you could do that focus group from the US in Chinese with an audience in China. And that's quite different than, you know, trying to do it in person because you'd have to go there, fly there, all the expense and cost. And, you know, if you really think about it, a lot of times in focus groups— I know you're from the world of PR, so I know you're familiar with focus groups, Jim— a lot of the costs related to that type of research really went into structural costs, you know, logistics, videotaping, transcription, all these things that were not related directly to the research but necessary. And so with the online, you eliminate a lot of those costs from travel to transcripts, and it just really makes it much more affordable. And as a result, I think if focus groups become more affordable as surveys have, the two really complement each other, and that's what's going to help entrepreneurs get to better product-market fit sooner, faster, and more affordably, but then also continue those methodologies and conversations to continue to differentiate and innovate.

You know, you've raised so many big issues there, Darshan. I do want to ask you one final question about your platform. Do users need to bring their own audience, or do you have people available and you can help bring them? Because that's sometimes the other problem in a focus group is getting the audience, isn't it, to take part?

Well, you still have to do recruiting. I mean, we don't really offer that. And the reason is because there's so many different audiences that people are looking for, it would be hard to just offer all that, especially on a platform that can be used internationally. But the good news is there are companies out there that will get you sample. There are survey tools out there that also get you sample. But nowadays with social media, you can build list or compile users of your product or similar products pretty easily and pretty quickly.

Okay, that's wonderful. That, as you say, then that people focus on their core competence. Now, Darshan, you've also written a book, Getting to Aha. Let's talk about that because you've got your own business, but also you're a thought leader in this area too. So what's the premise of Getting to Aha?

Well, it's interesting because I've been doing market research for quite some time and brand advertising work. And I find there's lots of consistent things that are happening. And oftentimes the clients just weren't having enough conversations with their customers. And I find that, you know, there's insights laying all around us. And if you're able to really have these conversations, you can tap into tremendous insights. And those are the insights that really help you innovate. Because nowadays you're no longer competing with the person next to you or down the street or in the next state. You're often competing with someone around the world. And so the way to really, I think, excel is to gain insights that help you differentiate. So then the question is, how do you gain those insights? And that's where those conversations really come into play. And I think the more conversations people have, the more they'll be able to better understand at a deeper level what their customers want or don't want.

So having more conversations, that's great. In the book, Are you helping people to understand how they can get those conversations then, Darshan?

Yeah, I actually really tried to have— the book is really having a conversation as well with the reader. So I try to make it very conversational, but also give lots of examples of how companies have succeeded and failed by having these conversations and getting these insights. Because if you think about it, we're all as a business owner or entrepreneur looking for ways to make a difference and to stand out because there's lots of competition. And the good news is there's so many ways to stand out now. It's not just having an innovative product. It can be sometimes the experience. One of the examples I talk in my book are shavers for men, right? So Gillette has been the market leader for many, many years in the shaving business. And their innovation was to come from 1 blade, 2 blades, 3 blades, 5 blades. That was an innovation. But what they neglected to realize is as that increased the number of blades, the cost for those cartridges increased to the point where they were locked behind a cabinet and you had to get the store clerk to go do it. And so, that took away from the experience. So, here comes an upstart and basically changes the experience and learned to innovate and took away the market share.

Yeah, absolutely. And the price point as well, you know, the price point of those razors.

Yeah, that's just— there's lots of different ways to innovate. It's not just the product. A lot of times, because I think nowadays people are no longer just buying products, they're buying experiences. And there's so many ways to differentiate from the product to the experience that entrepreneurs and companies can really have an advantage.

So when you say people are marketing to the experience, how can a conversation with your customers lead to an insight that would help you to create an experience and differentiate yourself? Can you give us an example of that? You've mentioned Gillette. But they were kind of not having a conversation.

I'll give you an example of a retailer that basically was a children's retail clothing. And they were looking for ways to improve their sales. And so after the focus group, or during the focus group, we realized that a lot of the women that came to shop at the store, their morning routine was to go drop off their kids. And then they'd go to the nearby bagel shop. But the store didn't open until 10. But they were done at the bagel shop around 9:00, 9:15, but they didn't want to wait another 45 minutes. And so, as a result of the focus group, they started opening at 9:30. And within a week, they more than increased their sales to pay for all the research and more. And it was just a simple conversation that they had. And they realized that basically, what are the pain points and what is their lifestyle? What do they do? What could be done to make it a little bit easier? And it's as simple as that oftentimes.

Darshan, I love that example. Do you have another example of a business that's listened to customers and it's impacted their business?

Absolutely. Let's talk about Airbnb, something I think many of us are familiar with and a very modern brand and service. When they first started out, they actually were not having much success. And they started out in Texas, they'd gone to California, but they were having some success. They saw traction in New York. And so, they were told, don't sit here in a conference room trying to figure this out. Go to New York, talk to your customers. And so, they did. And one of the things they found out in the first series of conversations they had is that a lot of these people didn't know how to take good pictures of their properties and of their homes. And so, they actually helped them and took better pictures, better lighting. Within a week, their sales doubled. And so that was a huge insight that they got, but it made a tremendous difference. And again, those are the kind of things we talked earlier about. Entrepreneurs are very product focused and that's okay because they have a passion, but sometimes it's just a little tweak or a better understanding that can make the difference from being here to jumping to here.

Yeah, I love that. That's a really great example to make it practical as well for us, Darshan. And, you know, you're an entrepreneur, obviously a globetrotting entrepreneur, and you've written books and you've also got some guest Lecturing work. As an entrepreneur, changing the subject slightly, how do you get yourself noticed?

Well, the good news is you have so many tools nowadays with the digital world to do that. But I think more importantly, it's not just all the different ways you can do it. It's really how you approach doing it. I think if you are in the mindset of you're trying to sell, it's going to be much harder in today's world because That's not getting as noticed as those who are really trying to help. And you know, when you're trying to help, you're going to truly then find the people who truly want your help and are willing to pay for it. And some may just you know find it interesting, but in the back of their mind they say, you know, Jim was really helpful. That's something they might even recommend to others because that's really what the internet and the digital world is all about—is connecting people. And what people are looking for more than anything is someone. who authentically wants to help. But hey, everybody knows we live in a world where you need to survive and make money. But more than anything, if you have the approach you're trying to help, then that makes the other part much easier to even facilitate or talk about. But if you're just out to sell, it's just, I think, going to be harder in today's world where everybody's looking for much more genuine, authentic help from people.

Okay.

Yeah.

Very interesting being of service. Now, I will ask you a question because specifically here it says that you yourself have taught at George Washington in DC. The University of Gothenburg in Sweden, the Thammasat University in Thailand, and the Sciences Po in France, and the Franklin University in Switzerland. Now, you haven't mentioned that, but I am going to ask you, how have you got not just one speaking and lecturing at multiple universities? Because that is also a unique way of building a brand for yourself, isn't it?

Yeah, but I actually did it more than that because you just learn a lot. You know, when you're working with young minds and people, you're just exposed to different things. And the one thing I've learned, it's one thing to be a student, but it's a whole nother thing when you have to teach it to somebody else. You get a much more 3D perspective around it. I just find that personally enriching. And then, you know, one thing leads to another. So then there's referrals and things. And, you know, it's just something that I think has been personally valuable, enriching, and it's helped me grow personally.

Yeah. And how did you get that? Just sorry to interrupt from a practical point of view for any of, you know, my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs who've got something to give back to the community at university level or college level. How did you go about doing that?

From contacts and getting referrals and just really trying to, you know, talk to people in the academic sphere and working with them. And, you know, just really And at some point, making some connections, starting with guest lectures and so on. And so that's actually why I'm also in Thailand, is to try to work with the university here to really develop a more robust ecosystem for startups. Because again, the startups internationally are having the same challenges, and a lot of them need to get to product-market fit to then ultimately get to funding, to get traction, to then get it to a point that they can say, now we can scale it. There's just, I think, a lot of opportunity that's in Asia and coming up. And I just really enjoy working with students in these challenges.

Well, I've enjoyed listening to you and being a student of all of your great thoughts as CEO and founder of iResearch, the author of Getting to Aha, and also listening about your lecturing where you're very generously giving your time and your knowledge. If people want to find out more about you, where can they do that?

They can come to iResearch or just send me an email directly at dm@iresearch.com.

Great, and of course I will include Darshan's details in the show notes as always. So thank you very much. I say sawadee krap to Darshan. Thank you for joining us today.

Sawadee krap and krap khun krap since you speak Thai so well.

Well, that's the limits of my Thai, but I had to put that in there. And you've been listening to me, Jim James, here in the UK, where the only way that we say goodbye is cheers. And thank you for listening. Thank you, Jim.

Appreciate it. My pleasure. My pleasure, Rob.