How automated authenticity and communication efficiency can level up your noticeability.

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. My name is Jim James, and today I'm joined by Chris Larson, who's in Asheville, North Carolina. Chris, welcome.

Thank you. I'm excited to be here, Jim. I love— we're so far apart, yet we're right here together. It's wonderful.

Yeah, I'm loving podcasts. It's bringing people from around the world together. Uh, it's kind of an audio tourism, isn't it? We're getting to wander around and meet wonderful people. Chris, you run a company called Next Level Income. You know, this is a show about how entrepreneurs get noticed. So we really want to hear obviously about your business, but what we really want to hear is how have you got noticed? And interestingly, you're talking about automating authenticity. So let's talk about how do you automate authenticity, especially in something as sensitive as financial industry?

Yeah. So I've, I've been in sales since I was about 12 years old, 12 years old, Jim. I spent 18 years in the medical device industry, so I was working with surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons going in the OR, and the outcomes that we sought were for patients. So it was very important, you know, so I think obviously finances are important, a very sensitive topic, but I would say, you know, my pedigree is coming out of the OR where you're dealing with something that's even more important, which is health. Back then it was working one-on-one with a very small group of quote unquote customers. You know, I was working with like 5 to 10. And it was very easy to be authentic and to have these one-on-one conversations. But during that process, I was always, I'm an engineer by training. I was always seeking to systematize different parts of the process so that we could have the best outcomes possible, the most consistent outcomes possible, make sure the equipment's there, all that. So I took that, take that same structure and I say, okay, how, you know, how can we apply that to an audience, you know, for financial, you know, in the financial realm, investing in those sorts of things. And as you mentioned, one of, one of the things we talk about is automating authenticity. Now, this doesn't mean being inauthentic, but it, if you're working with 10 people, 100 people, 1,000 people, how do you remember special occasions? How do you make sure that you are impacting someone's life In a way that is important to them. First things first, communication. So you have to start out with communication. I start every relationship with an investor with a one-on-one call. I had a call just a couple of weeks ago and, you know, this investor and her husband said, wow, like you still do these calls, like with every single person that you bring on board? I said, yeah, I'm still doing that. And that's about 2 a day, just to give you a perspective. I take notes. So I use HubSpot, which is a CRM, and I make sure that I have different things. Who referred that person? You know, are they, you know, are they married? Do they have children? You know, what, what is the why? Why are we having these phone calls so that I can go back and remember, you know, what, what is important to that person so that we focus on that. And again, the system being inauthentic. If, you know, if, if you step onto a used car lot and the, or a car lot and the salesperson is trying to sell you a sports car and, you know, you're like my wife and I 10 years ago, when we were looking for a minivan, it's not— that salesperson's not going to be successful because he doesn't know the why for the reasons that we're there. So that's how we, that's how we start out with communication, making sure that we pinpoint those things that are important and then having systems to make sure that we're communicating consistently on an effective basis after that.

Okay. So let's break that down. So first of all, you've got, presumably you've got a A set of questions? Have you got sort of a template? So can anyone answer those questions or is it only you, Chris, that kind of does the onboarding with clients?

Yeah, great question. So I have, I have kind of a funnel that I've built at this point. So anyone that comes into our community, whether that's, you know, they, they join the podcast list, whether they're interested in our coaching, whether they're interested in learning more about our investment opportunities, there's a separate form that they fill out. You know, just a very short form, typically takes a couple minutes. So that we have that information so that when we get on a phone call, we're already there. They're also provided with information before we get on that phone call as well. But for instance, you know, for, for a strategy session that I might have with a coaching client, it might ask what their number one goal is for the, for the year, you know, any obstacles that they're facing and, you know, also talking about any, anything that's working or not working for them so we can start to figure those things out.

If we can just move up the funnel for a moment though, Chris, because you've talked about, you know, once you're on the call with them, these are the things you want to find out. Most of us have a problem putting leads into the funnel. How are you getting those primary leads into your business?

Yeah. So first off, I wish I could say that I knew what I know today when I built this funnel out 3 years ago, because I kind of just piecemealed everything together. I came up with my book and the podcast and I didn't do this consciously to create like a quote unquote sales funnel or a lead funnel. I did it because I wanted to curate information to help people shortcut the process that I took towards, towards financial independence and learning the things that I know. But now today, you know, the key is building, you need to build a platform. So, you know, depending on what your business is, you know, obviously social media is a great, very inexpensive way to build a platform. You know, we use LinkedIn because we're working largely with a lot of professionals, high-income earners, those sorts of people. Some people prefer Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. That's not, I don't, I don't really know much about TikTok, but I know it's out there. So you need, you need people to notice you. First off, you have to have a platform. Number 2, you need to provide value to people on that platform. So you need to provide content and information. Every day I'm putting up native content, you know, content that I've created either on my podcast, I've written. It's going up there. But then I also, I'm reading, I love to read. I read a ton of articles. I'm kind of a data guy because I'm an engineering nerd from school. And I share that information with some commentary. So hopefully I'm providing that value. Richard Wilson, who is the second guest on our podcast, he said, hey, give away 80% of what you do. And, you know, he says, give away 80%, charge for 20%. So again, if you go on our website, you know, people are like, how do you make money? You know, with your website. I mean, it largely doesn't, it's not there to generate a profit. It's largely there to provide value. Once you have a platform, once you're providing value, you need a way to engage people. A lot of people call this a lead magnet. So again, I did this kind of backwards, but I wrote my book. If you're listening, go to nextlevelincome.com, click on the book link. You can download a free copy if you're overseas. I'm in the United States here. You get a free audiobook, a free ebook. If you're here in the continental US, I'll send you a book. After you, after you put your information, you can see my process. You're going to get a daily email talking about what we do and inviting you to have a call with me at the end of that. So now we get to the process of people engaging and self-selecting and saying, hey, this is something that makes sense for me to take my time and have a call with Chris.

Wow. Okay. Yes. You say you've built this and frankly, it sounds very organized. HubSpot is the platform of choice. Are you able then to have all these different pieces of content, your ebook, your podcast, your newsletters, are they all hosted, if you like, on HubSpot? Is that your hero platform?

They're not. So HubSpot, so everything is hosted on the website. So, you know, HubSpot is Our, our, our client resource management software, right? So we have all our information. So we know, you know, I have my assistant. So as soon as we make contact with someone, she's going to input their email, their name, you know, what they do. And then I'm also, you know, I'm going to take that input from their initial questionnaire. I'm going to put that in there as well. So I'll be able to do that. I'm also going to be able to see, did they get a copy of my book? You know, have they, were they referred to me from somebody? So all that information is there, but everything is really hosted on the website. And then I have, I also have a database where I keep track of, you know, any articles and certain things that I put up there as well.

So it's interesting, Chris, that you, you haven't just gone to one hero platform to do CRM, newsletter, and everything. What, why is that? Why have you used presumably maybe a WordPress website? Is it? With plugins?

Yeah, it's a Squarespace with plugins, but yeah, I haven't, I mean, and maybe that's an area of opportunity for us here, Jim, but yeah. So we've been using HubSpot for 7 years, almost 6 and a half years. So we've continued with that platform because we have over 6,000 contacts that are in there now. But yeah, certainly there's, there's more comprehensive platforms that could be used as well.

Okay. And you raise an interesting point there, which we were touching on before we started recording, which is about You know, personalization at scale. And what you are doing is, you know, automating authenticity. Chris, how do you manage if you've got 6,000 people in your database to remain authentic? Because you're obviously providing a very personal service because each person needs their own financial plan, don't they?

Right. That's right. And there's, yeah, and there's different levels, Jim. So I think about my stepfather. Okay. So he's, he's older. He's, you know, struggles with some memory issues and certain things. And we were talking earlier this week and it's my son's birthday on Monday. And he's, he was looking at his calendar. He's like, oh, I need to get a card for, for your son's birthday. So it's no different, right? You need a system in place so that you remember to go through the process of, of contact, of communication with individuals. So at some point you can't do it all. Like I can't have all the emails, all the conversations. So we put systems in place. This may be my assistant that's reaching out, that's following up with somebody from LinkedIn. You know, they're sending an email, like a template. This may be, so let's say somebody gets my book and they don't respond. My assistant's going to get a reminder a month after they received the book to reach out and offer them a free consultation with me and do that. So, you know, these are somebody that obviously has some interest in the platform and wants to do that. And I've had a lot of really wonderful conversations from those emails with people that are getting started. You know, I've, a young man, he called me, he said, look, that conversation changed the life of me and my wife, you know, my life with, for my wife and I. So, you know, having those conversations are, you know, very enriching from a personal perspective. So part of our business is providing investment opportunities. So when we have an investment that goes out, people are busy, right? You know, if you're working and you're a business owner that's listening today and you work with successful people, those people are busy. They have priorities. They have families. They're trying to stay healthy. They're working out. You know, they have their own kids' birthdays like I do on Monday. It's like, all right, I got to remember to get this and do that. And then they have their clients and they're running around. They have different opportunities. They're busy. So if I send an email out, And somebody doesn't respond. And I'm like, well, man, I remember Jim was really interested in this. I'm going to have my assistant send you a message and say, hey, Jim, did you get this? Did you see this? I know you're busy. I just wanted to make sure you got this. And then I also send a physical mailing out as well. So I'm trying to hit people with all these things. And it's interesting because some people say, don't waste your time and money sending me that. And other people say, wow, I really like the fact that you do that. So You know, you have to recognize that, you know, to be, to be authentic and to meet people where they are, sometimes you need to use different mediums and that's not always consistent across demographics.

Yes. You've raised a couple of really interesting points there, Chris. One of the issues that I talk about because I have clients all over the world is sending information to people at the time that they are open to receive it rather than when it's ready. And you in the sort of personal finance business, you're probably offering people something they do on the weekends or the evenings, as opposed to during their main days. So how are you scheduling that content and how do you know when is best for which people?

Yeah. So we, we put stuff up in the morning, midday, sometimes, you know, in the afternoon emails, they'll go out sometimes again in the morning, sometimes in the evening, depending. You know, we also do recordings. So if somebody misses something, They can access it on their own time. We also, we have short-form video, we have longer-form video, like webinars, and different things like that. Personally, I like to read, like, I don't like to watch a video, it's too slow for me. You know, if I can't, if I can't listen to something at 1.5 or 2 times the speed, like I prefer to read it because I can get through it a lot quicker and do that. So people are different. My marketing guy is a millennial. And he said, hey, Chris, you know, I listen to YouTube all the time. I'm like, you listen to YouTube? He like, yeah, like, we listened to like, we, my generation listens to YouTube. And I thought like, YouTube's for video. So you have to constantly be learning about different types of medium that are out there, even if it's not something that you think is important. That doesn't mean it's not something that's important to a large subset of your customers. And you have to understand that, especially when your customers and clients are like mine, They could be in their mid-20s and they could also be in their mid-70s. That's a big difference.

Chris, you've raised a couple of really interesting points there about the avatar. You talk about timing. What about adapting the message then? Because the 20-year-old got a long period of time to be saving up. The 70-year-old is maybe already dipping into savings. How are you tailoring your messaging along with the content?

Great question. So when you start out, what I did, I worked with a coach and we came up with 3 different avatars. Okay. So we came up with the avatar that may be the young, high-income professional, the avatar that is, you know, middle-aged, that is— so let's, let's start the young, high-income professional, not a lot of savings, maybe, maybe single, maybe not married yet, you know, just getting started. They're looking for information and they're looking for a strategy that they can Kind of start putting together, you know, number 2, you know, middle-aged individual, somebody that has high income, lots of savings, maybe not a lot of debt. You know, they're looking to accelerate, for instance, in this case, their financial independence. And then the 3rd avatar that we came up with was the retiree, the high net worth, low income retiree, right? So my messaging and my articles always for all 3 of those avatars, So you cycle through and do that. If you look at our podcast, we have young people on the podcast, 23-year-olds, 23-year-old women. We have, you know, 70-some-year-old men on the podcast and everything in between. So, you know, you have to be conscious again, you know, what you're putting out there. And when somebody looks at a podcast and says, well, hey, I can relate to this person, that can be very powerful. If you're always having the same types of You know, content, the same types of guests that you're speaking with, and you're missing a subset, you're also losing out on the opportunity to create a lot of value for certain people.

Chris, that's really interesting hearing you say that. Are you kind of going counterculture where you're saying it's not about going into niches? Because one of the main sort of themes in marketing is choose one avatar and drill, you know, a mile deep and an inch wide. But it sounds as though you are choosing sort of several avatar verticals at the same time.

Well, I think you have to be also conscious, like we have, we have different pieces of our business. So our coaching business is gonna appeal more towards one avatar, whereas our investment opportunities are gonna appeal towards a different type of avatar, if that makes sense. So I think, you know, if I, if I just pulled out one of those business silos, if you will, then it's probably going to be more directed towards one avatar over the other, to your point. So I'm kind of, I'm talking about my business, you know, specifically. So you have to look at your own and say, so for instance, we just, we just, I co-wrote a book with my business partners. This book is called Money Insights for Sales Professionals. Okay. For sales professionals. This is a, this is to your point, Jim, this is a hyper-focused, niche book written specifically for people like myself, high-income earning sales professionals that are 25 to 45 years old. And it talks about a specific strategy that we call the Investment Optimizer that uses a specific life insurance contract to allow people to increase 10 to 20% the rate of return on their investments. But it is called Money Insights for Sales Professionals.

Chris, that's fantastic. And I love the way you're taking different content types and avatar types and blending those. Tell us about your podcast because you've got the book and the podcast. What role is the podcast playing in your strategy?

Yeah. So the podcast, again, it is there to curate content for people that are learning ways to achieve financial independence. And Next Level Income strategy is how to make more money, Keep more money and then ultimately grow your money. So we talk about those 3 subjects on the podcast, which are pretty broad, right? You know, people like yourself that can help business owners, that can help professionals increase their earning capacity. You know, people that are a certain part of their career. We have, for instance, tax professionals that come on that talk about how to keep more money, insurance professionals, estate planning professionals that talk about, you know, techniques. So you don't, you don't give up your money in taxes. You don't give your money away in, you you know, as part of a legal or a lawsuit, or you don't give your money up because you were uninsured, for instance. And then we also talk about different ways that you can grow your money. We talk about cryptocurrency, we talk about, you know, people call them alternative, but they're really traditional investments like real estate and those sorts of things as well. So, you know, if it falls into one of those 3 buckets, then we're probably going to explore it on the show.

So you've got your own show and then you're sharing as well. You've got a strategy for being on other people's show, which I'm grateful you've come on The Unnoticed Entrepreneur today, Chris. What's your strategy then for having both being a host and a guest?

Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for asking about that. Cause I think this is interesting. You, you need to, you know, if you look at David Priestley, we were talking about this before we started today, he talks about you need 1,000 like raving fans. You only really need 1,000 really loyal clients or customers to have a very successful lifestyle or small business. So you can have a podcast, like I have, say, you know, 2,000, 2,500 listeners on my podcast that are consistent. Okay. That's great. How do you grow that audience? And, you know, this is where it's important, I think, to cross-pollinate. One of my passions is helping teach children about financial independence. So I go on parenting podcasts, for instance, and I do things like that. My goal is to be, is to produce 100 podcasts a year. either of my own or other people's. So I usually do about one a week. I do one my own. I'm usually on one like we are today, Jim, to do that. Look, it's wonderful. I learn things from my guests and I try, you know, I learn things from the shows that I'm on as well.

I think, you know, Chris, you and I could be talking for hours, both about business and about money. I'm probably with, you know, at the end of my life, 55 with 2 young daughters and still school fees to pay. So I'm a different demographic. All together, Chris. So I need lots of help on your, on the things that you know how to do. But Chris, if people want to find out more about you, how can they find you?

Yes, you can kill two birds with one stone. If you go to nextlevelincome.com, not only can you see examples of everything that we've been talking about, but if you get a copy of my book, you also see the email chain. I mean, you can check out kind of the way I built my sales funnel and follow it. You can also reach out to me directly. chris@nextlevelincome.com. That's chris@nextlevelincome.com.

Chris Larsen joining me all the way from Asheville, North Carolina, where I have very fond memories having been to university there in Chapel Hill. Chris, thank you for joining me today on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur Show.

Oh, it's been absolutely my pleasure, Jim. Thank you.