How Heidi Dugan of Arete crossed the chasm from obscurity to recognition in China with her own TV...

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Should I say ni hao? Today we're going to Shanghai in China to talk to Heidi Dugan, who has a multimedia wellness and food business in China. Heidi, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

It's a pleasure to have you. And you know, you've been in China for 13 years. And what I'd love for you to talk to us about today is how you've managed to cross the chasm as an entrepreneur, how you've managed to go from obscurity to recognition and fame in China. So let's just start off first of all and just give us a, you know, the overview of Aret, your business, and you as an entrepreneur.

Sure. So actually I've been in China for 26 years. And so majority of that time has actually been on TV actually. So I started, I was the first foreign TV host and I have my own show, You Are the Chef, which became incredibly famous because it was me going into the hotels and restaurants and speaking with the chefs, going to the shopping centers and buying food, teaching people how to really love and understand Western food. And then it became more about Chinese food as well and all cuisines. And then through that, because I was working so much in the industry, then we had a lot of brands reaching out to me, asking me to work with them, and then started importing brands. And of course, my love, my personal love of health and wellness expanded. So from food and beverage, bridge to then health and wellness and has put me pretty much where I am today.

Well, Heidi, and I'm going to apologize for my Chinese accent when I said ni hao as well. So you're plainly both qualified as an expat and a China hand. You know, it's not easy to start a business anywhere. I know from personal experience starting a business in China, you know, has its own set of challenges. We're going to focus today on the getting noticed aspects and how you've gone from, you know, starting a business to building a brand, Aret. Do you want to just tell us a little bit about some of the challenges that you've faced in building Aret into the business that it is today?

Yeah, I think that for me, the challenges that I've faced have been the things that have actually made me become who I am. So naturally, as a foreigner in China, one of the most difficult things when I first arrived was that I couldn't speak very good Chinese. And the biggest restriction was that I wasn't able to be a TV host. So I was guest host on quite a lot of shows, which actually got me well known into a much bigger audience. And then when I got the license to be the first foreign host on Chinese TV, it really attracted so much attention. But when I look back, the show has been aired for over 20 years on Chinese TV, and that's a daily show. What really reminds me, you know, when we look at Instagram and all of these other platforms, The real success was that we did one show for so many years, and the method we used and the format that we used was exactly the same every single day. We just changed the recipes, but the format was the same. So I now realize that, you know, although at the time I sort of would have loved a little bit more of a challenge, something a little bit different, it was because people were used to the show and they were lulled into it and then they enjoyed the years of just learning the recipes, but they knew what they were going to get.

Well, Heidi, that's a really good lesson about, as you say, sort of consistency in communication. And of course, Zelensky is doing that currently with his nightly address, isn't it? So consistency is a core part of anybody's strategy. Now, you threw in slightly casually that, you know, you got a license to be a host on TV in China. How difficult was that? And is that something that you think other entrepreneurs could do to try and position themselves in mainstream media?

To be honest, I think that China is a very difficult place and I was at the right place at the right time to be able to be fortunate enough to get that. I'm highly aware that being able to live broadcast on national TV is something that has only been permitted me because of the years of trust that I've built up with the government, with the Chinese consumer and the public. So I don't think that national TV always has to be the best way, and especially having your own show doesn't have to be the best way, but you can replicate what we did on other platforms, for instance, on Instagram, or even be a guest and talk about whatever it is that you're an expert in. on those shows. And that's what my show was, a cooking show, but that's not why people love me. People started to love me because I was on a cooking show and then they became fascinated with my life and who am I. And that's why I got onto a lot of other shows because they wanted to ask me about how do I parent? How did I build my business? How do I stay fit and healthy? So it naturally, after that, people want to delve a little bit deeper when they know that sort of, they've got that basic structure there.

Heidi, that's really interesting. And why don't you just share with us, you know, about Aret now? Because you've had a fabulous journey, which you've obviously now built a business. And I'm interested in, you know, how you crossed the chasm from obscurity to recognition. So tell us about Aret then and what it's doing.

So Aret was really based on the fact that I have a lot of publicity. I'm noticed by a lot of people, plus I have incredible relationships. And those relationships I've continued to maintain. We talk about about being, you know, visible. I suppose I use the word visible more than anything because that could be TV, it could be social media, but it could also be socially making sure the right people can see you. And, you know, it could be an event, it could be on a podcast. So the visibility, I suppose, is the one core thing for me that I'm always thinking of. And so as a result, Areté was really a way of companies coming into the market, what they want is for their brand to have what I have, and that's visibility. So they connected with me, and through me, they access my followers. It's actually a really cool technique because you can do the same if you want more visibility, is you can access someone else's visibility network and be part of that, like we're doing today. You know, I'm on your show and I'm becoming visible to your followers. So there are so many different ways. And for me, I think the big thing is really not thinking about it from publicity, or do you do social media or TV or anything like that, is that visibility, how and where you get it. Just take it and just pursue all the different avenues.

So let's just, if we can, drill down in that. You talk about all the different avenues, and obviously you're prolific, you know, over 20 years on TV. And I love the way you say it's consistency in the same format. Can you just tell us, you know, I've got this idea about consistency over channels and repurposing content. Heidi, can you just tell us, how have you been taking, you know, the Arete content and repurposing it across— in China, of course, you've got things like, you know, WeChat as well, haven't you? And Weibo, you've got your own set of channels.

Yeah, so I definitely have 2 different markets. One is the international brands and what we do globally and how we get visibility from that. And that's very much all the social media platforms, but it also means that if there are banks or law firms outside the country, how I connect with them and how I can come and speak on behalf of, you know, my company to help their clients. So that's one type of customer. And then I flip it around and I look inwards towards China and they're my personal followers. And that's really about the Chinese consumer. And the way that I do that is everything from working with the Women's Association, working with the government, working on all my WeChat, Douyin, Weibo, WeChat Hongshu, and also all the TV shows. So, you know, I love using traditional media too now because not as many people are using it. So it means that, you know, it really makes a mark on and leaves a really good impression on people too.

So Heidi, is it the case that, you know, you started off with a passion and through that repetition, you know, you became an influencer? Would it be fair to say that?

Yeah. Yeah. And definitely it's just about the repetition. You start getting noticed. And I really didn't know that there were so many people watching the show. Like we have 6 million viewers every single day. So for me, I think the way I become visible is really being very authentic to myself. And I always have this thing in mind. If I can just help one person or if I can reach out to one person, then I'm okay with who and, you know, when someone watches it or what they think about it. So I think that if you've got something that you want to share and you're authentic about that and you're consistent with that, people will naturally start to follow and they'll be fascinated with that journey.

That's a really wonderful and positive message as well. And what about, you know, confidence? I mean, you're plainly someone who laps up the camera and the camera laps you up. So, you know, and you've got a personality for that. Is that something that you've learned to do or is that something that you just had naturally? Because for many business owners, you know, the idea of being in front of a camera and doing it consistently can be, you know, frankly quite daunting, can't it?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, clearly I love doing it. You put a camera on, there's a smile on my face. I love it. But I think that anyone can actually do that. The whole thing is that they just need to be true to themselves. And when anyone is really goes deep in and is passionate about what they're talking about, it doesn't matter the style or their personality. People naturally will want to listen to it. It's about their connection to the topic that they're talking about. So if someone is talking about a topic that someone else has given them and that they're not connected, you can tell from, you know, a mile away. But if you are talking about something personal and you know, explaining it, you naturally will do a good job. I mean, you can ask anyone to talk about their kids and suddenly, you know, they can talk for hours and hours. And that's the thing is that when you connect with your topic, it doesn't matter if there's a camera in front of you. It doesn't matter if there are 5,000 people in front of you. You're always able to talk because it's something you know.

Yeah, Heidi, that's really actually really encouraging, right? And I've been doing this podcast, I'm really trying to connect to sharing with my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs how other entrepreneurs have managed to cross the chasm and get noticed. And, you know, what would you say though, Heidi, to some of the challenges that you face? Because, you know, we're seeing the successes now. Have there been any obstacles? Yeah, you know, notwithstanding you're doing this in a foreign language, that you could share and how you solved those problems?

My biggest obstacle is the complete opposite to everything I've said, is consistency, is that I want to do everything. And I think this is the problem with a lot of entrepreneurs is that, you know, doing the same video over and over and over again is boring for an entrepreneur, but it's not for the person that's watching. And so for me, oh my God, I've got such a good idea. Shall we do this? Shall we do that? And so the only way that I could actually overcome that was to bring in an awesome COO that goes, nope, No, no, no, we're going to do it this way and you're going to continue doing it. You're just going to get better at it. How can we be better at it? So that for me is my biggest challenge is instead of going, ooh, bright shiny lights, I'd like to do this, I now need to focus on how can I do this better? How can I reach more people doing this one thing?

You know, the mastery issue is such a classic, isn't it, for entrepreneurs? So many of us get to a certain level of mastery and then go, great, I've done that. I'll do something else and be a sort of semi-master at something else. And that's fantastic that you've had the maturity and the insight to bring someone in to kind of create some guide rails because commercially, I imagine that's very effective for you.

Yeah. Yeah. It's something that I really needed and it's created the structure to build the business and it also has removed me from that decision-making And it's meant that I can get creative on areas that are not going to slow the business down so that there are, you know, I get creative on the partnership on, you know, doing the same sort of thing, but what partnership can we do with this time? So I think that that's the structure that I've needed and has really made all the difference.

That's really fantastic guidance and advice there. And can I switch topics slightly? And that's on the technical side because you've got your, you know, your content and you talk about repurposing it across the multiple channels, both international channels and your domestic ones in China. Are you outsourcing all of that or can you give us some guidance of how you're managing, you know, what is basically sort of multiple audiences on multiple platforms? Technically, that's quite a challenge.

Yeah, so definitely it is 2 different audiences and my philosophy with my business is to keep it super lean and it's been fantastic over these last few years has meant what I do is that I partner with amazing companies that have the ability to do everything that I need them to do. And then I don't spend the time having to work with, you know, a huge amount of employees and employee issues. So it means that I find the best company and that they've got a team that works in all the different areas. And that partnership that I have is generally something where not only am I benefiting from it, but having them working with us, they are actually benefiting massively because we will bring in other brands and give them to them too. So my feeling is, that's why I always say partnership, is that anyone that I work with, even if we're paying them for the job that they're doing, is that I want to make sure that they are better off when we leave or when, as we continue. So whether it's structure that we can help them with or guidance, we make sure that we do that because I know that sort of partnership is meaning that they're going to be better as we go along and as we grow. And it means that, you know, it's beautiful. So that's how I do it. Keep nice and lean, work with the best that I can afford at the time, and then just help them get better and better. And it means that I can have a team of hundreds, right? We can all have teams.

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And I love the way that you outsource the bits that are not within your core competence. And then you can focus on this content creation with your COO, if you like, keeping you channeled and you get better and better at the core content that people, the audience really want from you. I didn't— obviously they're asking for more and more things. What's next for Arete?

So I'm super excited because we are launching our new brand, Rise. This is living and it's about wellness course. It's a global brand, but we're launching it in China. And it's to give people the confidence to take back their health and wellness and happiness and to be able to control it, but also create it as their life moves along and as things change. So that's what we're doing. And we're launching it in December here in China. And we're working with so many fantastic health and wellness brands. And we've got a lot of media and amazing people that will be coming along to it.

Heidi, one final question. You're obviously managing to market across, you know, China and internationally. Is there one key takeaway that you can give us about how you sort of cross the chasm, actually sounding like across 2 cultures?

Yeah, I think adding value to whoever it is that you're working with. You know, we use the same structure for whoever it is that we're working, whether it is the international market or the on this market. Structure is there, it's just the tone of voice that we use. And so, you know, I really think that, you know, as long as we're thinking about who it is we're talking to, then we're always going to be on the mark with the message that we're sending out there. And I will say also, when you're on the mark and that you're in the forefront of these things, you get picked up by media as well. So we've been picked up by a lot of TV shows and newspapers and things like that are interested in these stories. The more interesting stories, the more interesting partnerships you create, people want to be part of it or they want to review it. They want to put it in the news.

Hi, it's a really good point that your initiatives actually create a momentum, don't they? That the media come to you rather than you having to proactively pitch to them because of how genuine your content and your mission is.

Yeah, yeah. But with that in mind, I just, you know, I don't want anyone to think that we just sit back. We work our Butts off with media. I'm constantly, you know, our team is out there letting people know what we do. It's one of my team members who's in-house. That's all she does is reach out to different people. So we work really hard. And this is the one thing I think entrepreneurs sometimes forget is that you have to ask for things. And I find that journalists and that they're just dying for a good story, something interesting, someone else to write the story for them. Just yesterday, I wrote a story. For a journalist here in China, so you know there's a lot of that kind of thing going on. You have to ask, and then you will also receive it.

I love that message, Heidi. Thank you. Yeah, we asked you to be on the show. You kindly said yes. I can't promise six million viewers on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur, but you're going to reach out and touch a lot of people on the show. So thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

So you've been listening to Heidi Dugan, who's in Shanghai, and of course. We will put all of the amazing ideas and thoughts in the show notes and the transcripts. If you've enjoyed this, do please share this show with a fellow unnoticed entrepreneur. Also, if you've got a chance to rate review the show, that would really help you. But listen to me, Jim James here in England and Heidi Dugan in Shanghai. I'm going to just say再见。再见。