How is doing good things good for your business, with Jill Poet

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Today I'm delighted to have Jill Poet, who's joining me, and Jill is the co-founder and CEO of the Organization for Responsible Business. Jill, welcome to the show.

Hello, Jim. Thank you very much for having me here today. It's delighted to, to be on my podcast.

Well, it's fantastic because you're doing a lot of great work on really helping companies to be responsible and to play their part in society. So Tell us, how does it matter? Why does it matter for a company to be responsible when it comes to getting noticed?

Well, we always use the phrase, doing good is, is good for business. And it was true 12 years ago, but oh my goodness, it's so much truer today. Because whoever your client is, or your potential client, they are, whether that's a consumer, private sector, public sector, they are increasingly wanting to buy products and services from businesses that care about people and care about the environment. So you not only need to be doing those things, but actually you need to be talking about them. I've come across loads of businesses that do really good stuff, but if I look at their website or their LinkedIn profile or whatever, it doesn't tell me. So you've got to do the stuff. But you need to talk about it because people want to know. And if they have to make a decision between buying from your competitor and you're talking about the good things, you're getting yourself noticed and they will want to come to you.

Okay. So Jill, that's fantastic. So doing good is good for business. What, what about the danger of being accused of, you know, greenwashing is one of the big ones now, or Making a comment just for the sake of making a comment, but not really taking action as a result. What do you think about that?

That's absolutely true, Jim. And we totally support the new Green Claims Act in the UK. That is, it's not new legislation, but they're just enforcing it. So the word that we use all the time, and I bore people with it terribly, it's got to be authentic. And it's a good thing. You need to be careful as well, because Sometimes small businesses can say things that maybe the advertising people don't like, which they've said with no intention of misleading. So you do have to be careful. But if you're authentic and if you have core values at the heart of what you are doing, and you can evidence anything you say, that's the big thing with the advertising authorities. If you say anything, think about if anyone questions this, Can I have evidence to prove what I've said is true? And if you have, then you're absolutely fine.

So Jill, being authentic is obviously important and being genuine. And I've read about how in America now brands have to take a position on certain issues, for example, like Black Lives Matter. How do you help a company to understand what opportunities there are that are, if you like, within their core values? But are also ways that they can demonstrate that they're socially responsible as a business.

Absolutely. One of the things that we have that is a really useful tool to be for businesses of any size, it's designed for small businesses, but actually even a CEO of a big corporate would benefit from using it. Not that they're likely to, but they would benefit. We've got an online course and it really helps you to focus on what you are doing, if you're doing it well enough, and what more can you do. We talk about people supporting their people, you know, if you've got employees. And we work with a lot of sole proprietors who haven't got any people, but they collaborate with other businesses. So your people, if you've got people, your local community, that sort of supply chain impact where you might impact the lives of, I don't know, maybe indigenous people that you'll never meet. But you still need to be thinking about it. And of course, your environmental footprint and supporting your local community. So all of those things. And if you're a small business, you have to be aware and thinking about these things. So you can't necessarily do a lot in every area. Small businesses have only got a limited amount of capacity. But the course is designed to help you to think about what's appropriate for your There isn't a one-size-fits-all benchmark. We call it ASFI, appropriate for the size, type, and impact of your business. So you can think about what you are doing, what you are really doing well, what you can improve on, and the things that you are doing well, then obviously that gives you the opportunity to really talk about those and expand on them and get yourself noticed for those good things. And people will like that honesty as well. If you are just in the process of thinking about a more sustainable approach. And when I use that word, I mean sustainability in its broadest holistic sense. You know, if these things aren't necessarily been on your agenda before, but suddenly you've had this lightbulb moment and you're thinking, God, I need to really change what I'm doing. People are quite happy for you to say, we are looking at our business process, processes. We're thinking how we can change. And it's the beginning of a journey for us, but we are committed to doing X, Y, Z, which is very different from, you sort of alluded to this corporate world earlier on. And for years, they've had CSR departments and the focus of the majority of those, some of them have been really good, but the focus of the majority of those departments have been CSR projects, and they're bright, shiny projects that are designed to catch the attention of the outside world. Now, they might be doing those bright, shiny things, not thinking about their local community, not even engaging their employees, not caring very much about their employees, not caring about diversity, wellbeing, all those things. And they used to be able to get away with it. But they can't anymore because of social media, because of NGOs, because everything is so much out in the open. And it's back to this word being authentic. So people aren't interested in you doing bright, shiny things unless those bright, shiny things also equate to those core values in your business, whether you're a big corporate or a Small business. They want it to be real.

That's really interesting, Gillian. Presumably along with authentic, people are now becoming accountable, aren't they, for what they're doing in their supply chain or in their community or in their workforce?

Yeah, not so much small businesses, in fairness. Larger businesses quite definitely are. The hot topic in terms of larger businesses now is ESG. It might be a term that you are familiar with, which stands for environment, society, And, and governance. And interestingly enough, although it's not a phrase that I use, it's been our approach since we launched because we define a responsible business as one that operates ethically and responsibly, sorry, ethically and efficiently, always meets and exceeds legislation, and cares about people and the environment. So to be a responsible business, yeah, absolutely, you need to be proactively trying to make a positive difference in terms of people and the environment. But you need the right systems in place. You need to be efficient. You need to meet legislation. And unless you are doing all those things, you're not a responsible business. And that package together actually is pretty much what ESG is. So we've been doing it for 12 years, long before it was sexy or had a specific name. It's just good business. And it's what we say, you know, it's just good business for doing all these things. And again, you know, doing good is good for business. So you're a responsible business, you're operating efficiently, responsibly, you're going to be a really profitable business and people are going to like what you're doing. You're going to get noticed. They're going to want to work with you.

Okay. So you've mentioned there being good business. Do you think that ESG, or used to be called the triple bottom line in big companies as well years ago, impacts profits? Is it expensive, Jill, to be a responsible business? Because it used to be that it was really sort of a PR budget item, CSR. Do you see it changing in terms of affordability?

First, for small businesses, it's not an expense. It absolutely isn't an expense. I had a conversation once, I was giving a training session and there was a lady that worked with, I won't name the organization, but it was a charity that did the same sort of thing, but in the corporate world. And I said to this group, now, if you were going into a small business, suppose they were, I don't know, 8 or 10 people, and you wanted to talk about corporate social responsibility, what sort of budget do you think they would need to have? And this was several years ago. We went around the table. And there were various budgets, and there's always a budget. And I said, well, no, actually, you do not need any budget at all when you are doing corporate social responsibility as a small business properly, because it's about core values. It's not necessarily about those projects. Yes, of course, if you have some funds that you want to put into that and to do things, that's great. Or if you want to do things such as cause marketing, where you'd be involved with an organization such as B1G1 or Work for Good, where a percentage of your turnover or profits, whatever way you want to do it, goes to a good cause. That's great if you could do that, but actually you don't need a budget. You don't need to think of it in terms of what you can do. And even on environmental things, you can start by doing no-cost, low-cost things. And then ring-fence the money that you are saving if you want to maybe consider buying new equipment or something like that, that is going to be more environmentally friendly. And quite often as well, there are ad hoc schemes across the country where you might get some funding to support any purchases that will help you be more environmentally friendly. I will just add with that, It can be complicated because we've all heard the big drive for things like, you know, buy an electric car, buy an electric car. If you're going to change your car or your business vehicle anyway, it needs changing, then yes, absolutely. But if you have a car that hasn't got particularly high emission impact, reasonable miles per gallon, and you don't do a lot of mileage, the most environmentally friendly car that you can have is the one that you have already got, because people don't understand the carbon that's embodied in the building of such vehicles and such equipment. So you have to be very careful that you have to do the right things, but don't just get carried along the sexy wave and the, you know, stuff that's out there that makes you think, yep, gotta do that. You better think about it sometimes. That's a really good point.

But really, uh, very interesting. I say in the same way, I suppose, that kindness doesn't cost anything, does it, to other people? Responsible business doesn't have to cost anything. It's a mindset and approach. And can I ask you, Jill, about how you think that impacts the employees and getting new people to work for you? Because one part is the sales angle, but what about in terms of getting engagement with potential and new employees?

Absolutely. And more so than ever with the millennials that are coming into the workplace. They're now the biggest force in the workplace. And they are far more concerned about who they are working for and what their values are. And we have got several of our more recent members in the last couple of years have actually walked away from really good careers with a good salary, all the perks, et cetera, et cetera. Because the company's ethos doesn't feed their souls. And they've come away and they've started their own business to do things the way they want to. And several of them, which I absolutely love, it excites me so much, front and center of, you know, you look at their websites and they'll be saying, we will only work with ethical businesses, values-based businesses, whatever phraseology they use. But they talk about their own values and we want to work with like-minded people. And that is really driving this whole agenda forward. And do you know what? Several of them have been, and I haven't, you know, this has come from them. We have these conversations in some of their networking events, but I haven't said to anyone ever, you have to do this because it's a business decision they have to make. And some of them have been a bit wary of doing it. It's a big step to take to really niche down your potential client. profile, and every single one of them, they're absolutely flourishing. And the really nice thing is, not only is their business doing well, but they're working with really nice people. So yeah, again, you know, doing good is good for business. It gets boring, I keep saying that, but it's just so true.

Well, Jill, you are poet by name and poet by nature. I can see this. Now, you started This business from 12 years ago with your partner, now your husband, how are you getting the Organisation for Responsible Businesses noticed as an entrepreneur in your own right?

It's very much like any other business, to be fair. We have to talk about what we're doing, the purpose behind it, our values. Opportunities like coming on a podcast with you, Jim, are always very welcome. Social media is a big part to play. I personally like LinkedIn, so I'm quite happy on LinkedIn, but I've got someone else who does the rest of our social media because I hate it. But it is important, so you have to know what platforms are there for you. And things like blogs. Look at your website on the About Us page. Don't have the ubiquitous, we've been in business for 20 years and can provide the best ever service and products, because everyone can say that. What makes you different? What makes you stand out? What makes you get noticed? Your values will help you get noticed. And these are all the things that every business needs to think about and drive forward. And it's the old story, isn't it? Sometimes when you're really busy, or 2 things, when you're really busy, you forget to do that because you're too busy. Or conversely, if trade is really bad, you haven't got much money, so you don't do some of the things that you should do. But you need to get that going permanently. Always make sure that you are out there and you've got the focus. Apply for awards. We won an award recently, which we were absolutely thrilled with. And it's, yeah, whatever you can do that works for your business, that fits in well with your business. I would just say, be very careful. Certifications are great. We offer Obviously membership of all is a good way to get yourself noticed. We have also got course and certification options, starting from something quite basic to a really robust evidence-based certification. But when you are looking at any sort of certification or membership, don't just go badge collecting. Make sure that it has real value, because if it hasn't, if you've just collected something where you've ticked a box, people can see through that. So authentic.

Come back to being authentic. Do you have one example, Jill, of, let's say, your favorite responsible business activity from maybe one of your members? Do you like to share?

My favorite responsible business activity. Do you know, that's really so hard to say because We have so many great members doing so many interesting things. So many of the millennials have got a particular focus on the environment, and we've got a lot of copywriters. And of course, because they write and they're passionate about the environment, they're knowledgeable as well. And there's stuff that they write about the environment on LinkedIn, several of them. So that's probably one of my favorite things, just seeing these businesses Not just promoting themselves as a business, but talking with purpose about what they believe in, what they're passionate in. I will give you a big example of one of such ladies. She's more of a marketer, general marketeer than a copywriter. And she'd made the decision to not so much come out of the corporate world. She'd already got her own business, but change her client base. So she wasn't so much focusing on corporate clients. And she was writing a lot of articles again on the environment. Superb writer. And all of a sudden, these corporate businesses were coming to her and asking her to do work for them. And they were businesses that previously would never have wanted her in the door because she'd been saying, no, I'm not gonna, you know, you've gotta do this, you've got to do that. I'm not gonna talk about this because that's not genuine. And then now they're saying to her, I want you to work for us because we want you to show us what we need to do so that we're doing it properly. We really want to be sustainable, but we know the message has got to be authentic. So yeah, that's probably a good example. So it's a bit of a generalization, but that's a real business that had that experience.

Jill Poet, the co-founder of the Organization for Responsible Businesses here in the UK. Thank you so much for sharing your passion. And for what is a genuinely great course. Thank you for coming with me, Jim James, on The Entrepreneur Show today.

Thank you, Jim. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for your time.

It's been a pleasure and inspiring. Thank you. You've been listening to Jill Poet. And of course, as always, I will put all of the details of Jill in our show notes. You've been listening to me, Jim James, on The Unnoticed Entrepreneur Show. Thank you so much for listening. And in the meantime, keep on communicating.