How targeting these pilots made block chain powered flight simulator take off.

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Today you're going to get really warmed up because we are going to Southeast Asia. We're going to Bali, actually. But amazingly, we're going to talk about not just Bali. Actually, we're going to talk about blockchain and Web 3.0 and how a group of people have found an amazingly lucrative niche. So if you're running a business, you're not sure that niching is the right thing to do, then today's episode is definitely for you because my guest today is going to explain how niching in the simulation flying business has proven to be worth its weight in gold. We're also going to talk about the influencers and the power of YouTubers, and Roberto is also going to share his experiences about what he did wrong when he tried to build his brand. Roberto Capodietti is joining me today from Ubud. Roberto, welcome.

Ciao.

Thank you. Hello, and thank you for having me.

Well, you know, I'd love to say I could fly over to Ubud in Bali with you, Claudio. It's a beautiful, beautiful place. I used to go there when I lived in Singapore. But you've been in Bali for, I think you said, 19 years now. So tell us a little bit about you, and then we're going to talk about SimFly, which is a business that's just launched and was cash flow positive almost from the get-go. So Introduce yourself, Roberto.

Sure. Sorry. Hello everybody. My name is Roberto Capodici. I'm Italian because nobody's perfect. And I've been living now in Southeast Asia, mostly in Bali. I've been spending time in Singapore as well for the past 2 decades. Before I spent decades in the United States, in Florida, because I like hot places. And originally I'm from Italy, Venice, a city that many people may know for as a tourist destination. And I ran business in all these places, in Italy, in other countries of Europe, in the States, and in Southeast Asia. So I really had a mix of experience in what it means to deal with employees, partners, clients in different countries.

Yeah, Roberto, you've got a wealth of experience and, you know, lived in some beautiful places too, moving from Venice to Ubud as well. You've got a lot of experiences which we could talk about, but I think Because I like to talk about the unnoticed entrepreneur and how you build a business. And people like you have been building businesses that people aren't aware of. Tell us about SimFly. And there's a whole area, whole business, whole community worldwide that's enjoying flying planes virtually. Tell us about that. And tell us about the business that it represents and why it's an amazing niche.

Yeah, I think that's been an incredible experience for me. And now it's short of 2 years that we're working on this project. And it's something that it took me like by surprise as I was taking a little bit of sabbatical time. I was helping startup and I was mentoring startup. And I ended up mentoring this startup that came out to be something that I initially thought was not really good. no really straightforward idea. But I had to really change my mind and understand how powerful it is to target a niche, even a huge niche, because in the world of flight simulators, Microsoft themselves has celebrated 10 million of active users. And in this particular niche is also a target audience that has the capacity to spend, has the passion to stay in the subject. So Even though it includes a lot of people, is a lot of people that have a very particular profile. So this is an interesting aspect that helps a business grow. If I can think to a parallel, many years, 30 years ago, a business that sells locally needs to connect to the community and needs to be part of those channels that brings the business to people. So really like the religious congregation rather than the school and the other things. Now that we are international, thanks to the internet, we are talking to each other now from one side to the other of the planet, then the means of the community are more close to what is a niche. So the community grows around a common interest, a specific interest. So that's the channel to get to a lot of people.

Yeah, and I think that's a really, really good observation that the That the niche is no longer by geography, but by area of interest, and then can be a global. Even if there are just a few people in each country, for example, collectively you've got a business. And Roberto Simfly, which is simfly.io. Can you share with us what do people get do? when they sign up for SimFly?

Yeah, absolutely. So SimFly targets people that love to fly with a simulator, with a flight simulator. Okay. And these people really like the idea of the simulation as is part of the core name, right? So they love the idea of simulating the flight of an airplane, but all the things that are around it. So there is people that are in the control tower coordinating the traffic and they sit there at home and they coordinate traffic Because if you think about the Web3 metaverse or something like this, while years ago, and it's more than 30 years that Flight Simulator exists by Microsoft, for example, it was obviously really ugly and not much functional. Now you don't realize if it's a flight simulator or if it's real life, so much the graphic is good. But the idea is really they want to simulate reality as much as possible. So They organize also what they are called like virtual airlines. So they have a job. So these people in front of their simulator, they need to be on time to board the people, to fly from Venice to New York in the scheduled hours. So they want to feel they are the pilot and they are in fact the pilot because— The important things to say, the flight simulator is not a game. It's not that you sit down and start playing. You need to really learn. So there are schools that teach you how to fly, which are very similar. You know, it doesn't give you a license to fly an actual airplane, but the knowledge goes so close to what is needed for an actual flying an actual airplane because they're identical, the simulation. So what SimFly does, add another layer of the simulation. So in all the simulation, adds a layer of economy. So this pilot that can fly they can also earn some tokens. Okay. And at the same time, they collect experience points. With experience points, they can upgrade the level of their license. They can participate in certain missions. They give certain rewards. And there is all a logic, all an economy around it. So they can build a career, but they can start also from an advanced level if they're already advanced. So it's really empowering the community to live to the extreme, the pleasure of the simulation with this touch of reality, which has been a challenge to communicate to this community. Because as soon as people heard NFT tokens, blockchain, the reaction has been very mixed. Some people understood and appreciate, other people immediately pointed the finger, say scam, Ponzi scheme. So it's been something where we had to build trust. We have to show that we are there for real, that we are working hard and we deliver a product. So it's, it's been interesting.

Yeah, really, really fascinating that there are people in the world that are spending their time flying planes. But I guess there are people doing gaming, there are people learning musical instruments online, playing chess online. So there's a whole world. But you've enabled it with blockchain, haven't you? So that's distributing the ledger and people are getting paid with— With NFTs, is that, is that right? Or with—

Well, practically what's important to understand for people before we go into these technical things of blockchain is that blockchain is a technology. So technology doesn't have any fault on its own. So technology cannot be a scam. Technology is just a tool and can be used for many things. So I stay away from what is the world of cryptocurrencies and what has been used to You know, the fraud people, also for many good things, but that's a planet that is on its own. In this context, the blockchain is necessary because the biggest revolution the blockchain brings is the singularity of digital assets, which means that before I could have an MP3 file, make 10 copies, give it to 10 friends, and we don't know which is the original because they're identical. Now I cannot make a copy of my Bitcoin. Because if I could make a copy of Bitcoin, Bitcoin would, would worth zero, right? So if we translate this capacity to other things, I can create a digital asset, which is the ownership of an airplane, a pilot license, the ownership of an airport, and represent it through the blockchain as an NFT. Not because I want to have the monkey that sells for half a million dollars, but because I want to guarantee the person that purchased this asset, Mm-hmm. that is unique and belongs to this person and nobody else because it is supported by this technology. So this is the goal of the technology. People can invest in airplanes, rent the airplanes out and earn, can invest in an airport. And every time an airplane lands and take off, they also earn. And with what they earn, they can buy more airports and increase. You consider that they can start with an airport that costs $50. Or 50 packs tokens earned through the game and end up with the airport like Dubai that costs $100,000. But we don't put it there hoping that somebody arrives with a credit card and buys $100,000 airport. This is a goal of a career. It's a goal of a group of people that comes together and make the purchase because this is the idea of simulating the reality, the game, what it comes for the entertainment of playing. I fly, make money, invest my money, and I have an active income that is my work of a pilot and a passive income that is My purchase of an airport.

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Roberto Capodietri, we're speaking to in Ubud, talking about global flight simulators powered by blockchain and NFT. So we're definitely in a whole new area here on the show. Brilliant. Thank you for introducing this, Roberto. You mentioned about the issue of trust and building trust in the community. And as you said also, you can't see all of these people that are littered and dotted around the world. How have you been building trust amongst this community? Because you've got the people that are maybe already au fait with NFTs or crypto, or maybe younger generation, but presumably many people taking on some of the, some of the roles are maybe, you know, not of that domain. I mean, my, my generation haven't grown up with this. So how do you deal with the trust issue, um, around this whole concept?

Yeah, this is what, when you bring something outside this context, you're gonna always face some, because people is afraid of the unknown, right? It's human, it's there for survival. So in the context of Web3, so you talk about Web3 to Web3 people, they already know and they accept it with no problem. But as soon as you take it out and you bring to people flying the flight simulator, they are all a completely different kind of people. They are going to look with suspect to whatever is brought to them. Also because being a very strong community, they also defend correctly their parameters. So they pay attention to what is coming in. I mean, to the point that we tried to make a one-page advertisement in a very important website and they took it down the day after because we were mentioning blockchain, because they were afraid that they were associated with something that was bad. Comes out that one year later, the opinion of many people has changed. So if at the beginning we had to go there and respond to tons of comments that were insinuating things without the knowledge base of what they were saying. And we were actually telling them, look, thank you for your comment. We can explain to you, but pay attention what you say. Take responsibility for what you say at the same time, right?

Yeah. So this is interesting, Roberto, because we really, part of this show is about crossing the chasm, you know, and, you know, Michael Moore's concept that, you know, new technologies have got to get from the early adopters across to the late adopters and get market maturity. Or they fall into the chasm and never get out. And, you know, back in, well, the late '90s, I was launching predictive text, intelligent text entry for mobile phones in Singapore. And the technology was from California, but it was being introduced through South Korean mobile phones because they were the only people that were willing to try this technology first, right? So now, of course, it's ubiquitous. So, so it sounds as though you were having to do education in the same way that we were back in the day with predictive text. So education is a big part of getting people to embrace the new technology? Is that the takeaway from that?

You know, I have something very interesting on this topic because they used to say, talk well, talk bad about me, but just keep talking about me because it's an important thing. This is true and not really true in business because a lot of people talking bad is not a good thing. But the person putting a lot of energy even to attack somebody can be easily converted in a super loyal, person and a promoter. They still use the same quantity of energy was using to attack you to actually promote you. So the psychology behind people behaving a certain way is something that is worth analyzing because sometimes it's really little. They want the little attention. They want to, you know, and once you can get this person, you can really reverse the role. And, you know, so that's something Taking care sometimes one by one, showing the attention to one person, single person. And then when you create community, the next person that attacks, there's going to be 10 other members of the community that comes in front to actually explain or do the— so it solves by itself the problem with time, but it's important to build the core of this community, this client base, whatever we want to say.

Yeah, that's a really, really good point, presumably as well, because As you talk about people being in a niche, they have some common interests and some common profiles. So once you get people from dislike or distrust across to like and trust, they become your ambassadors too. With SimFly, how do you run the community? Do you have that on a platform like Mighty Networks or is it inside simfly.io's website?

Actually, we have a nice channel in Discord. We have a newsletter. We have other means, but the community is spread among these things. Like out of 8,000 people that register as users in the website, only a few thousand have subscribed to the newsletter. Only a few thousand are in Discord. I myself never use Discord. You know, I have a hard time to understand all the mechanics. So sometimes It depends on who you talk to. There are different channels. We have a subset of users that are beta testers. They send us a lot of feedback. But the most important thing, I think, is to show the love, appreciate and reward. Let's say even transform it in something completely different. I'm making lipsticks. I have a factory to make lipsticks. You will have those loyal clients that come back to you with feedback and you want to send them the new test package to give a review or something. So these apply in all the directions. So you need to find those leaders between the community, have the channel that they prefer, stay in those channels and help them help you, practically.

Yeah, Roberto, I feel slightly reassured that you also find Discord difficult because you're a tech guy. and a whiz. And I'm a member of Discord with a few.

I know I look 25 years old, but I'm 50 years old next year. So I am also—

Yeah, Roberto is a youngster at 50. I won't disclose how old I am. Roberto, you've been an entrepreneur though since your teens, as you shared before we started recording. But as you've been building SimFly, is there a mistake from a marketing point of view that you don't mind to share just to help me, you know, learn something that I should not do myself?

Right. I would say that never enter in a channel that you cannot afford the continuity of. So whatever is marketing is never a one-off. There is no such thing like you do send one email and the people are going to come and buy from you, or you put an advertisement and suddenly Everybody's there. Marketing goes together with branding and is a slow and long process. So never be in a rush to see results. Never spend too much money at day zero. Make it grow with time and then collect the results. Now we have a return on Facebook that is incredible, like spending $20 of advertisement bring a few thousand dollars of sales, but it's not something that happened day one, right? It's something that grows. And, you know, people need to have the patience to go and see what people like, what people don't like, not be afraid to modify things. It's important when you have a website, people need to purchase, how many clicks they need to do in order to be able to make a purchase. So all these things need to be monitored and, you know, and done properly. If somebody is a one-man show, I suggest to go to a consultant. Those are money well spent. Thinking that you know everything is the biggest mistake because we don't.

Yeah. And often, Roberto, the challenge if you're on your own is you directly translate the money you could be spending with the money you could be making, right? And often the consultant costs at least the same as you or more than you're making. And so it's often a kind of an expensive decision. Very expensive if you don't take the decision to hire an expert, isn't it? Right.

Yeah. It can end up being indeed more expensive than people think to waste money, to throw them out. Something that is going to happen to everybody during the business, making wrong decisions. Don't be depressed. Don't give up and catch up with the—

yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But Roberto Capodietti, and I'm working on the Capodietti I am waving my hands around. I know those of you that are listening can't hear this, but I'm waving my hands around to try and sound more Italian. Roberto, what about something that you say, you know, either from SimFly or from your many, many years of running businesses that does work? What would you recommend to me in terms of a strategy when it comes to getting noticed?

Like I was saying, I mean, the important thing is to be there. But when you have a product, there are many different things. There is not such a generic answer that covers all because who's the product? Is the product the person because he's doing consultancy? So the person needs to be noticed. The product is something we are selling. The product needs to be noticed. I noticed that YouTubers are a perfect channel to promote something, right? In the terms that those that have a good followership, like hundreds of thousands plus, ideally millions, but even those that have 10,000 only followers, but they are consistent. You see, many people cheat on their YouTube channels. You need to see that the videos have views and comments and there is interaction. So those people endorsing a product, which they will do only if they believe they're doing the right things, they're not just, you know, at the You cannot purchase their voice like this, but if they like your product and endorse it, the power of an influencer is very, very, very strong. So a lot of people that follow them really listen like they're listening to the law.

Yeah, I think, and certainly my children watch YouTubers more than the mainstream media. Do you have an experience, Roberto, specifically with a YouTuber that you can share?

Well, we did this for SimFly as well. When you're in a niche, the YouTubers that cover the niche are also not expensive because generalistic YouTubers, in order to have any view, they need to do a lot of work and they cover a lot. And so they're very expensive. People that go to a niche, they have less followers, they're cheaper, but those followers listen to them much more attentively because they're talking about something that they like. So if he's a, you know, a YouTuber that just tell things anybody can be interested is even harder to make it effective. So it's important to do something that— to go to somebody that talks about the topics that the niche likes. So those are, to me, the most effective channels that I've used to do, that we did use to promote SimFly.

Well, that's fascinating. Yeah, and actually, you're one of the only guests I've had that's talked about influencers fondly, if you like, as being a valuable part of the marketing mix. But also, I love your point that if it's a very sort of well-known and generic, if you like, sort of almost celebrity, their impact actually almost reduces. Whereas if they're in a niche, they have a certain integrity and credibility and it increases their standing amongst their audience.

Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes having effect on a little amount of people is better than having effect in the big quantity, even if it's the smaller total. But, you know, what is important is at the end of the day, we want to make sales. So what brings the sales? That's compared to—

You know what we used to call effective demand in economics, right? That it's one thing to have demand with people that want what you have, but don't have the money to pay for it. But effective demand is actually they They've got the demand and the means to pay for it. Roberto, you know, I'm now asking, you know, learned entrepreneurs like you, and if you're in Ubud, you've presumably got some lovely long evenings out looking over the coast there. A book or a podcast you'd recommend for us?

Well, I will start with the podcast, which I have a conflict of interest because I'm one of the hosts, but it's called Breaking Banks. It talks about finance. I host Breaking Banks Europe, which is the European division. There's also localized content. And I have a series that is called Conquest, which is educating not to fall for online scams or phone scams. So the con artist, the quest is what we do to take them. Another book, there is a book written by a friend of mine, which is very interesting for people working In corporate, sorry, which is called Talents and Rebels. Talents and Rebels. So it's dealing with these misfits inside the corporate world. So if somebody runs a company, a business that is large as several employees or is managing, his book is worth checking. That's my suggestion.

That's wonderful. Put that in the show notes as well. Roberto Capodietti. In Ubud, but a member of the management team and shareholder at Simfly.io. If you want to find out more about you, because you've plainly got a huge amount of experience, and this whole area of blockchain and NFT in a sort of a global sort of virtual simulation environment sounds fascinating. How can people contact you?

All right, so if people can remember how to spell my family name, just Google Roberto Capodieci, which is C-A-O-P-I-E-C-I. But doesn't matter. Just go to rcx.it, and there's a shortcut to go to my website. So rcx.it, and you visit my website. There you find the links for everything else.

Great. That's rcx.it, both for Italy and also for information technology, isn't it? So you can definitely get that one there. Roberto, thank you so much. Grazie mille, I should say, I think. For coming on the show today.

It's been a pleasure being in the show. And thank you very much again for having me.

Well, thank you for coming on the show. You know, when I met Roberto using a platform called Matchmaker, actually, and we talked about coming on the show, I was just taken away because I haven't interviewed anybody that's involved in something of this scale and quality as SimFly. So really fascinated to hear how they built this. Amazingly profitable and very scalable business in what would be for me an invisible niche. Um, but there are people out there living and enjoying and spending on a hobby that's kind of semi-professional. So it just goes to show that there really are businesses everywhere, and there are unnoticed entrepreneurs living great lives in interesting and fabulous tropical places as well. So Thank you for joining me, Roberto Cabadiocci.

Thank you.

And thank you for listening to Roberto and I chatting about getting noticed and really focusing on a niche. And his words about not spending money you can't afford to continue on, really sage words. And for those people thinking about a niche, maybe that YouTube influencer is a more affordable channel and way to bring, bring in some leads than you might have thought of before. So thank you for joining me, Jim James. I'm here just still in fairly cold and damp Wiltshire, nowhere near as nice in Southeast Asia, but I hope that where you are is nice and warm and sunny, and, and you will enjoy joining me again next time on this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur.