If you would like to know how to get over 1.5m views on your social media content then listen to Lu

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Show. If you've got something that you'd really like to share and you're just struggling with the boring old formats of text, for example, you might want to listen to this podcast because we're going to talk about how one enterprising lady created avatars and edumercials that have had over 1.5 million views in just 30 days. I'm going to introduce you to Dr. Shelley James, who created the Luna Go Lightly series, which has raised sponsorship from major lighting industry players and has led Shelley to be featured on the BBC and created a commercial opportunity enterprise, all based around a passion and a skill that she's got around light. And yes, Dr. Shelley James is my sister, but I think you're going to love the story that she's got to share.

Shelley, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Now you're here not just because you're my amazing sister, but also you've managed to create a set of avatars that have got over 1.5 million views of some edumercials for kids. Tell us about Luna Go Lightly and the problem that you're solving and how other people can learn from it.

I started this project, in fact, during lockdown because I found myself really struck by how the young people around me were locked down, locked inside, and I could see them really struggling. And I realized that there were some very simple things that they could do and that their parents could do to make a massive difference. And it was all about light. And so what I did to begin with was simply to reach out to experts because I felt that there were so many people around the world doing some brilliant work in this field. And so I spoke to scientists, I spoke to education specialists, and I spoke to some manufacturers and I recorded a series of interviews initially to find things out myself, but also then to share that with other people. And that started to build an audience, in fact. And at the end of that, I invited these world experts to come together for a panel debate because I thought, what can I offer them back for their time? And what I realized when I asked them whether they were free was they suddenly all wanted to be together in the same room. People in the same— in different disciplines very often don't get a chance to meet each other. So we had a panel debate and At the end of that, we all agreed that this information was so precious and so powerful, but there was nowhere for ordinary folk to find this stuff out. And so I reached out to— and they said, Shelley, why don't you have a go at doing that? And so I took down the— took on the challenge. And in fact, 3 of the manufacturers who were in— who had connected through this process of making interviews, they agreed to sponsor this initial this initial foundation series. And we came up with the idea of Luna Golightly and her dad and the Beam and Spectrum the cat and the fireflies as a little sort of unit who would be the host for this conversation. And we also realized that the audience that we wanted to connect with were teens because they're the ones that, that really get— they're starting to make their own decisions and they're really affected by this. And we realized, I'm certainly, I'm inspired by the teens around me including your amazing daughters, Jim, about how when they know about why they should do something, they get on and do it. They are absolutely remarkable. As long as we are there telling them to do stuff, they go, whatever. If they really get why, then they really take it on. And in fact, they're always ready to share. So we developed this thing and this initial concept, and the sponsors came on board for this foundation series. And when I realized that what I needed to do was to make sure it was independent, And so I made sure all these— I chose many, I chose sponsors from different sectors so there was no competition. They were all absolutely in it for the same thing, which is to put the humans back at the center of human-centered lighting. And what I also did was to bring scientists in so that it wasn't just about selling products, it was actually about solutions. It was about what really makes a difference. And the third thing I did was to bring in a focus group of teens so that I, because I don't have kids myself, I spend as much time as I can learning what they're interested in, but I don't have kids myself. And so I invited a small group of teens to help me to make this work in a way that, to deliver the information in a way that they work, that would work for them. And it was an interesting journey. And we were, I felt as if I was in a hurry really. I decided that I wanted to launch this soon after Christmas, early January time, because I could see these kids suffering. And I knew that by the time the spring came on, who knew everything's moving so fast. I came up with an initial concept and I did some cartoons, I did some drawing, and I showed that with the guys and they went, well, whatever. Yeah, it's okay, but whatever. And actually it was your idea, Jim, to come up to use a tool which was much closer to a TikTok style. And so I came back with that using an online platform. I created some free avatars using an online design platform. I'd used some graphics using an online design platform, and I showed And I saw their eyes light up. They went, ah, now that's more like it.

Was this the first ones we did with Doodly and Toonly, or is this the Lumen5 version?

So the first ones are hand-drawn and then put through Doodly, and then I tried Toonly with their own, but they were— it was always a little bit too— yeah, it's like the kind of thing we'd get at school. It's all right. When we started to use Lumen5, which gave us a completely different aesthetic, it was poppy and actually Luna, the initial idea was there was a story about Luna and the kids were saying, that's honestly, it's just taking too long to get into this. And when we went right back to core message, we came up with a formula actually, which with their help really lands very quickly. And Luna simply becomes the host with the sponsors. So the idea was to listen to what the teens needed and give them that in a way that they would get and not keep on pushing our own agenda, whether it be to promote Luna or to promote a product.

One of the key elements of the Speak PR program is that you're creating content in the format that the audience already is comfortable with, you know, rather than creating what were initially sort of PowerPoint presentations for children, right? And that missed the mark. The content was interesting, but the format was not. That was a big lesson too, the medium being the message.

McLuhan's right there. It's true. And I think the other thing that was interesting was that one of the reasons I was very glad to have a set of sponsors who were passionate about this topic too is that When we asked the kids what they needed to know, some of the topics that these manufacturers are very proud of in their products, they went, well, whatever. It just wasn't on the agenda. So that's something else we were able to— so we used a language, a visual language, and a timing that the kids are used to. And we also met them where they were in terms of their interests. So that was something else that we learned very quickly and actually has meant that we were able to create content which, which we really landed. And what's interesting is that the original idea, the, the, the, we, we created a, a series so that people could, it's almost like a funnel of information for different dimensions or different parts of their relationship. So we have a 40-second quick hit, and then we have a, a, a minute and a half up to 2-minute longer dive with some practical solutions like light meters and things. And then we have an interview with a scientist about the underlying science and This toolkit is starting to be used by schools, and we'd expected that the information, or that they would only watch the 40-second, maybe that's enough. But actually what we're finding, particularly for a couple of the more technical topics like flicker and headaches, the 2-minute version is getting 49% watch. So That's a 2-minute video about Flickr, and you'd think that's— so we were able to use social media platforms to really— we fed it out week by week, and we just, we were able to adjust things like the titles. We were able to adjust where things were delivered in a way that over time our scores have gone— on one particular video, we simply changed the title. It went from 7.5% click-through Up to 13%. You can really be super agile and super quick by creating this, by monitoring the spend and the kind of feedback very quickly.

That's what we call amplification in the Speak PR program, Shelley. Just tell us then, you've got these different video formats, sort of 40 to 2 minutes. Which platforms then have you been able to send them out to, Shelley?

So we simply went to where our audience is, which is Facebook and Instagram. We looked at TikTok, we looked at Twitter, but neither of those have really taken off in the way that we thought they might. And so what we've done is simply to focus. And it's been interesting because we initially placed the ads through Instagram and through Facebook separately. And because we were adjusting the titles, we were sort of playing, well, playing around, fine-tuning. Instagram actually blocked us briefly from putting the ads up. And so what we were able to do, in fact, thanks to my amazing VA, we were able to do was to place the Instagram ads via Facebook. And what we'd seen was that the Instagram engagement, we were getting many more, the reach was much bigger, but the engagement was relatively low. So on Facebook, I was getting 12, 15, 20% engagement. Click and watch, whereas on Instagram we were getting 6, 7, 8, up to 9%. So what we found is in fact by placing the ads via Facebook onto Instagram, we're getting a lower reach. I mean, they're still in the thousands a day, but we're getting lower reach but higher click-through, higher engagement.

Why do you think that is?

Honestly, I don't know, but what's interesting is that just fine-tuning things like changing the title, changing the COVID image, changing the pathway for play, even just replacing that ad seems to make a massive difference.

Yeah, I use a tool called Headline Analyzer, and it's amazing the difference in discoverability just by changing a few words can make. You can have a score of 50 to 60 through up to about 84 is the highest I've ever got out of 100. Just by changing the titles. So that's a really great learning as well.

So just one other thing that made a big difference to the way, I think, not only to the way that Facebook and Instagram have been promoting and sort of helping us to reach those amazing numbers, but also we were very careful about the landing image. The way into the piece really made a massive difference. One of them has a picture of a dad on the front, and that has done very— that's one of our best.

Yes. I like that one as a dad, Shelley. So the thumbnail, as I think it's called, right, is also making a difference. So it really is a science, but also an iterative one. That's also been a really good learning from this.

What—

can we just talk a little bit about the content? Initially, you went— well, we went to a big agency. What was the original sort of idea of cost? Because I think that was one of the bottlenecks originally, wasn't it?

Absolutely, Jim. So I mean, I've worked in big agencies myself, and you sort of think that the only way to really make an impact, to make a difference, is to use a giant agency, probably in Soho or in New York, because they all look so cool and they do amazing, amazing work. But we went out to a couple of them, and in fact, some of them are so grand, they— it felt like a privilege they would even talk to us. And they said, oh well, it could be 3 months, so a couple of months. Of course, you've got Christmas. It'll be a couple of months to do the concept, and that'll be £5,000 to just do the concept because we like you, that's cheap for us, and the copyright for the things that we create. And then if you want to make some more, for every— if you wanted to make 5, um, that'll be £75,000 plus the initial plus the buyout of the rights. So I was thinking, shall I mortgage a house? What— how does that work? Um, and also sort of worried that if I Went for something. I also went to some smaller agencies and that was sort of 25 grand, which was sort of pretty much all the budget. So, and that's without paying myself. So I thought, I thought, well, if I, I don't feel like I'm going for something that's sort of cheap and cheerful because actually hiring those cheap ones, I mean, there wasn't that cheap. Um, and it was still gonna take ages and I was gonna have to kind of explain to the designer all the time what I wanted. So. I decided that either I went sort of top dollar or I just went for it. And because I had the choice of going top dollar, I just went for it. And that's been a brilliant lesson, I suppose, having confidence in your own ideas, but also using the tools that are out there. Because when we— when, when, when I share what I've done with these giant— I mean, some of my sponsors are biggest in the world and they are responding.

Yeah, well, let's give them a shout. So some budget, but not Not really a huge amount, but enough to get it started, right? So it created a real limitation on the production.

Which I think is, in a way, is a benefit. I mean, again, one of the lessons is to stay agile, and that sort of a £5,000 ceiling for a little sort of— it's about the price of a Transit-like tick glass, or, you know, we're not— you're in the realm of things that they can actually— in fact, one of the clients suggested that he pay on his Amex card, you know. So you're in the realm of things they can They can make a— take a punt above level. You start to go into committees and then your idea sort of just runs into the sand. I think the other thing that really helped the process of moving quickly is that it was the end of the— it was the year end, sort of Noctober, November, and they'd got a little bit of money to mop up. So, well, a couple of them had, particularly because the pandemic meant that they weren't able to do some of the trade shows and things that they were doing. So, uh, and they were sort of looking for ways to pivot. And so she, choosing your moment can really help in that zone as well.

So I think that's one learning in there, and that you focused on the children really made a big difference, didn't it? That it wasn't a hero piece. And I think we had that decision about focusing on spending on the promotion, not on the production, and that was also a key moment in terms of the the response. Can you talk a little bit about the sort of the engagement on the client side? What have you had to do to sort of negotiate and get them from— because the way that you've got it financed is a new model really, to get 3 sponsors for 1 piece of content. Just tell us a little bit about how you negotiated that because that's some pretty clever footwork.

As with everything, it's to do with Building a relationship. I didn't know these guys to begin with, and what I did first was to offer them a platform using the interviews essentially as an excuse to speak to them and as a way otherwise. So I went in there with a give. At all. So I'd say that's the first lesson, is that you meet people as human beings who are passionate about their topic and you give them the benefit of the doubt about that. You kind of, you set the expectation that we're all in this for the right reasons. So, and the interview is a great, or the podcast or something, it's a great excuse. So I'd say that was the first thing. I'd say the next thing was to be clear that we were in a kind of, we're in a team where there wasn't any sort of, nobody was getting their names in as sales. So there was, it was completely open for the same reason and so that they could use their sales team and in trade fairs and in other situations where they just need to bring presentation. So I was offering them some tools that they were clear where they could use, but they weren't— but they were also clear that they weren't entirely in charge of the— they weren't commissioning me to make something. We were all together on a journey to shift the language about human-centered lighting. So, and I think, I mean, the other thing was that—

Yeah, yeah.

It was great was that I I got an anchor tenant in there first. I mean, Seoul Semicon is giant and the guy who is my sponsor, and in fact, we're talking about the next level of, he's quite a, he's an unusual man and ready to take, ready to try stuff out. And he's got from head office and he does interesting stuff in the bag. I could say, well, these guys are doing it. Even one of them, I said, look, I'll give you a discount so that I just have you on there. So, but I'd already got a couple of anchor tenants and he wanted to be in, but he hadn't— couldn't work out how to make it work. Having a triad in these different sectors will just really ramp it up for all of us. So, okay, you can come in. So I think, yeah, anchor tenants are ready to take a risk and delivering them. Mark, who from Seoul Semicon, who took the risk, he was my anchor tenant, that his boss over in Korea, I mean, in Korea, myopia and the problem of bad lighting in kids is just massive. I mean, there's just a whole generation of kids who are on the verge of you know, really struggling with their eyesight, particularly into later years. And he was— he got noticed, boss, the head of sort of— and they never do that. And we were— when we decided to launch Luna on LinkedIn and, you know, other platforms, his boss, his CEO, got his weight behind it and did a— and we got 1,200 views on LinkedIn in 4 hours. So, you know, I was able to give him something back, um, in terms of his own kind of association with the project which is seen to be— it's in line with their positioning and in line with his own positioning as a kind of an innovator.

Yes, so you've really taken care of a number of different stakeholders really, haven't you, Shelley? Both the young people who are the primary stakeholders, the sponsors, and what about for you now? You're being approached by the media, you've been on the BBC Radio talking about light, you've been approached by a PR firm to you know, they'd like to work with you, which is a nice turn of events. Next, one last sentence then, Shelley. What's next for Luna Go Lightly and the Age of Light Innovations Group?

Well, it's exciting times. I think who I spoke to before Luna started have come back and want to— it's the full restaurant thing. I'm now looking at how to bring that closer to specifiers and architects and people who can actually make those sorts of decisions. So I'm working, I'm in conversations with, um, one of the very— a couple of large organizations in the States, particularly about bringing this message to the people who are starting to make the decisions as part of the, the well-building standards. So that's the next part of this project.

Shelley James, if they want to find out about you, where can they go?

The website ageoflightinnovations.com, and you'll find my contact details there. I'm also on LinkedIn, and that's probably where you'll find me most easily. So thank you very much indeed.

Shelley, thank you so much for joining me. Obviously a double pleasure for me because I get to have my amazing sister. It's actually Dr. Shelley James, let's not forget. She actually has a doctorate. So there you go, I told you that she's amazing. Not only is she my sister, but she's doing amazing work for young people in this world about the power of light. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Unnoticed, and lots of great learnings from Shelley here, not least of which is to focus on, on the end, on the goal, and to find the solutions to It's about being resourceful rather than having a lot of resources. So wonderful inspiration from Shelley James. So wishing you the best of health, a safe lockdown, and that if you've got children, check out the Luna Go Lightly videos. I think you'll find them really informative and inspiring. I know that I have. Thanks for listening.

Be well.