Joint venture to success in 6 simple steps; with Mac Attram

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur with me, Jim James, and Mac Attram, who's joining us from West London today. Mac, welcome to the show.

Hey, Jim, thank you very much for inviting me on. It's a pleasure to be on your show.

It's a pleasure to have you on the show because we're going to talk about how you've helped companies to create partnerships to the value of over $25 million in the last couple of years. Partnerships and ventures are a key way that entrepreneurs can build a business now. Tell us, Mac, in your experience, how can an entrepreneur use partnerships and joint ventures to get noticed?

That's a great question there, Jim. You know, many years ago, I didn't really understand the power of joint ventures and collaborations and partnerships until there was a situation where someone in my networking organization said, hey, Mac, I've got these clients. They need help. Can you help them out? And I thought, You're giving me all these clients. I'm not marketing. I'm not paying for any Google ads. I'm not paying for any social media. That's fantastic. And so I started learning about partnerships and in the last 8 years alone, personally, and with my joint venture partners generated over $25 million. Now, how can people do it? First of all, you need to understand when it comes to joint ventures, you have to have the mindset that it's got to be a win-win process. If it's not a win for you and it's not a win for them, then there is no point because at some point there will be some element of resentment. And so the way to look at partnerships and collaborations, what I would say is this, some people, you know, they want to understand what the definition is. And the definition that I say is a joint venture is a win-win strategic partnership between 2 or more people or companies who agree to leverage each other's resources in order to make more money or save money. And for me, it's the fastest, most lucrative, least competitive form of marketing that I've found.

Yeah, it's a really great way of explaining that. And that actually, rather than just marketing yourself in general, if you market yourself to some strategic partners, you can get access to their customer base, to their resources. Now, Mac, I know you've written books on the subject. So can you just take us through, do you have a methodology that you can share with me and my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs on how you can make a successful joint venture work?

Sure. Yeah. When we're teaching our clients on how to really make joint ventures work, there's something we call the Million Dollar Joint Venture Process. And quickly, I can go through that with you, Jim, if you like. It's 6 steps. So the first step. Very quickly is learning to identify who your ideal joint venture partner is or could be. So it might seem easy and you think, well, which company? But the way to look at it, especially if you understand that you can use joint ventures for different things, either to make more money, to save money, or use other people's resources, leverage other people's resources. Let's take one element. One element for most small businesses would be, I want to use joint ventures to grow my sales, to attract more clients. Okay. So let's start with that notion. And that notion says, okay, now I've got to identify who that potential joint venture partner is. And the easiest way to do that is ask yourself, who are my ideal clients? Who already has my ideal clients that is in front of my ideal clients? And I'm speaking to them, they want to hear more from me. So number one, identify your ideal joint venture partners. Number 2 is now you identify who they are and make a list of 10, 20 different potential joint venture partners, companies that you want to collaborate with. Number 2, once you've made that list, is to contact them. So you've got to, you've got to know how to contact them. Whether you're going to contact them on phone, whether you're going to go to their office, whether you're going to go to the same networking organization they belong to, you've got to have a way. So we, I've got this in our training program, but very quickly I'm going through it. Once you've contacted them, now all you are going to do is not to sell them anything, but to build rapport with them. So in this case, if I feel Jim James is the right joint venture partner for me, And now I'm in conversation with Jim. I want to really build rapport. I want to understand who Jim is, his business, what the business does. I've already done my own original research, my initial research, but now I want to get a bit deeper in terms of, is there an opportunity here? What are the challenges they have? What is Jim trying to do? How can I support Jim in that? And you've got to have that win-win mentality. Number 4, sorry, number 3, once you build that rapport, understand to create a compelling joint venture proposal. You've got to create a proposal. And I say, put it in writing. And then number 4 is to present that proposal to Jim. In other words, having a follow-up call or a follow-up meetup to say, hey Jim, remember the last time we talked and I mentioned something about how we could work and collaborate together. Person's going to say yes. Well, I've gone away and I've created this thing. And I think here's a possibility for you to make more money or save more money. And this is how we can work together. You've got to know how to present that very succinctly so that person understands it and they want to work with you. Number 5 is to close the deal. With Jim, it's an agreement. It's a sales process. You're going to close the deal. In other words, put things in writing. Get it signed. And so that everyone understands how the joint venture is going to work and how both parties are going to win. And number 6 is the most interesting because if it works once, number 6 is just now maximize what you've already done. How can you do it again and again and again and again? So for a lot of my joint venture partners, every single year we may do 2 or 3 joint venture collaboration thing, and we both win because that relationship has already been built. I hope that made sense, Jim.

Yeah, absolutely. So, Mac, I love that you've got 6 stages. In there are a number of opportunities to communicate with the potential partner. Any guidance on things like formats of materials, or are you using particular language, for example, because the language of communication around joint ventures is also very sensitive, isn't it? Because for a start, you have to overcome maybe some distrust or some inertia between the 2 partners. What guidance do you have on what works, Mac, from a communications perspective?

Right. Very, very good. That's a great question there, Jim. And yes, You know, initially there is distrust because they don't know you and you really don't know them apart from some initial research you've done. And so the communication has to be in a way that they need to understand that you're coming with an opportunity where they can win and you can win. So this is why I mentioned about building rapport and then building rapport, as most entrepreneurs will know, is really about Asking more questions, listening a lot more, and talking less. So it's a sales process where I'm going to ask questions, I'm going to identify opportunities, and I'm going to listen to see where that potential partner may have some challenges, how I can support them in that, what can we do together in order to create a win-win situation. So from a communication point of view, it's all about Listening more, asking questions, and identifying a need.

Well, it's really interesting, as you say. So it's less talking and selling and more listening and responding. And Matt, once you've done that process with the other side and you've got agreement, what's your experience in terms of communicating to partners and customers and internal staff About the joint venture because it creates organizational change. It creates new possibilities. So what's your experience and guidance in terms of communicating after your stage 6?

Awesome. That's a great question as well. So what we teach our clients and in our own organization is this. Once we have created a new joint venture, then I communicate that to our salespeople, our marketing people. And to our operational people, then they know exactly what's going to happen going forward. So they may be contacted by the companies or the company's clients or the company's operational staff. And we have processes to deal with that. And so this is critical because this is where things can fall apart. Because if joint venture partner clients are calling the office or emailing the office and nobody knows where this lead or potential businesses come from, then we can't really service them. So that communication is clear. The communication between the joint venture partner and yourself has to be clear. Who's the contact point? Who are the people who are going to be talking in order to make sure this is smooth and delivered in the way that we intended? So communication internally and externally is paramount.

Yeah. I'm so glad you said that because I was a part of an organization that did a merger and there was no communication except for at a trade show about the merger and it created absolute chaos. So starting it early and making it comprehensive seems to be really important. Mac, when you've done all these joint ventures, you mentioned, you know, over $25 million worth of revenue generated over the last 8 years. Can you give us some case studies of maybe a couple of really successful case studies? And then maybe we can talk about some ones that you say, can be some danger points for people in joint ventures. So let's start with the positive case studies, Mac, of good joint ventures.

I mean, I think a good starting point, I'm going to give you some case studies of our own clients in a moment, but I want to paint the picture for those people who are thinking really big. Now, joint ventures for most large corporations is nothing new. They do it all the time. If you look at some of the large corporations in the airline business, They do it. So take British Airways. Why are they in Oneworld Alliance, which is a strategic partnership of airlines, including Sri Lanka Airlines, Qatar Airways, Qantas, many more? Because they can utilize each other's resources, coach fares, logistics, et cetera. There was not too long ago, I think it's in 2015, Uber and Volvo came together in a strategic partnership. And what they wanted to do, Jim, was to create driverless cars. Now they got together within 2 years, that business, that joint venture itself was worth over $350 million. 2 companies who the concept was driverless cars. They couldn't do it alone, but together they could make it work. So when we think about any time Pixar or Disney launch a new animation, you'll notice that Coca-Cola, McDonald's come up with packaging communication that, hey, this is a joint venture where both are going to win because of this new animation movie that's been launched. In the personal development space, personal growth space, which I am in, some of the thought leaders are people like Anthony Robbins. And Dean Graziosi. 2 years ago, they launched, they did a joint venture called Knowledge Business Blueprint and Knowledge Business Blueprint. By the time they created everything and presented it and launched it, generated $33 million in just a 2-week window. 2 parties who are great at what they do. Dean Graziosi, amazing what he does. Anthony Robbins the same, but together they launched this product that served thousands of people around the world. I have a client in Indonesia who use our joint venture process and use our systems that we teach through our business, including joint ventures. And in 2020, sorry, from 2019 to 2021, tripled their business from $15 million to $45 million. She's in real estate, but did the right joint venture process and collaborations and sold the right way, the way we teach. And so I have some clients who don't do as much as that, but they do grow exponentially. I'll give you an example of one of our clients, Anna, who's a coach. Now, Anna, she wanted to speak internationally, but she wasn't pulling the trigger. She wasn't going for it because she didn't know how to build Partnerships internationally. So we showed her and in a 10-minute phone call using our process, was able to do a joint venture deal worth $40,000 in that agreement. So yes, you can, you know, there are traditional ways of marketing, but there are also faster, more effective ways to reach your clients and make a lot more money. So I hope this gives a flavor of— Yeah.

It does, Max. So let's just look at that. So if you were a company and you've mentioned, for example, Volvo and Uber, what would be some of the pitfalls? Because, you know, it sounds all great, but like marriages, many of them don't last, right? So there's the initial flush and then the reality of living together may not be quite so fantastic. Can you give us some warning signs?

Yeah, I can offer you a few warning signs because Hence, and the reason why I want to give you that is when anyone's working with us, we say, look, here are all the templates. Here are all the agreements. Here's all the contracts we have created. Make sure you use them because otherwise you could succumb to this. Now, one of the dangers is that, let me keep it clean, non-payments. So joint venture has been successful. Payments have come in, whether it's from clients or otherwise. But you are not getting the commission that you're due because the other party is keeping all the money. So that's one danger. We don't want that. That's why we create these legal agreements. Number 2 could be skipping agreements so that if you've only done a joint venture and it's only been through verbal, you've only verbally agreed, then there is no comebacks because then someone can say, oh no, I didn't say that, Mac. I said this. And so they skipped the agreement that you created. And so now you lose out. It's not a win. It's not a win-win any longer. Number 3 is you could do a joint venture launch. And then after a period of time, there becomes 2 different agendas. You know, you have an agenda which you set out in the beginning. Now the other party now has a totally different agenda. Maybe they've got what they wanted initially. Now they're retracting because now they can see the power of that and they've set their agenda differently. Then you lose out. The other thing we found is you could end up unfortunately with the wrong joint venture partner in the sense that initially you thought it was the right joint venture partner. Everything proceeded well and realized that after a period of time, actually it's not the right joint venture partner. What they promised or what they said they have, it's not the reality. So number 4, wrong joint venture partner. And there'll be another one as well, which could be just growing apart. You know, the 2 joint venture partners have decided that actually initially everything was good. Now they've decided to go their separate ways. And so you've got to watch out for that. So you don't, you're not tied in to something that you can't get out of.

Right, Mac. So, and you've got, as you say, over 20-odd years of being an entrepreneur in your own right, and creating a time limit to these relationships can be a really nice way to safeguard for both parties a responsible exit. Now, Mac, as an entrepreneur in your own right, how have you been getting your own business noticed? The Mac Hatram coaching business. How have you been doing that?

Right.

Good.

My business, MindSpace Coaching, for the past 17 years, I've had the privilege to train and coach hundreds of thousands of people in over 50 countries. Now, when people say, have I been noticed? Yes, we do the social media. People find me on social media and Google, but the biggest thing has been through joint ventures where I've been invited to come and speak on some major platforms around the world where my ideal clients are in the business development and personal development space. I've had the Absolute pleasure to speak on the same stages as Anthony Robbins, Brian Tracy, if you've ever heard of Brian Tracy, Les Brown, Robert Kiyosaki from the Rich Dad Poor Dad series. And so that's where a lot of people find me or see me and podcasts like this and then various other places just by speaking and adding value is where I've been noticed most.

Matt, that's fantastic. You've added a lot of value today, even as you know, we try and get such a huge topic into such a short amount of time. If you want to find out more about you, Mac, where can they find you?

I think the easiest way is macattram.com, M-A-C-A-T-T-R-A-M.com. Go there and that's my website. You can find me there. So yeah, I look forward to helping anyone I can. Thank you, Jim.

Mac, thank you for sharing all of, well, what's 20-odd years worth of multimillion-dollar experience with The Unnoticed Entrepreneur and myself in this podcast today. We've been listening to Mac Attram, who's based in England in the West of London, and me, Jim James, your host on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur Show today. So thank you so much for listening. And if you like it, please do share it with a fellow entrepreneur and review it and rate it on your player. So until we meet again, I wish you all the best and think about some partnerships and look out Mac Attram's website to get the very latest in how you can benefit most from joint ventures and partnerships.