Richard Robinson, Beijing based Bostonian entrepreneur and professor

Welcome to this episode of the Silver Fox Entrepreneurs. Today I've got the pleasure of introducing an old friend, Richard Robinson.

Rich Robinson's based in Beijing, although he is originally from Boston. Richard and I first met back in '97 when he was running a mobile games business in Hong Kong and I was running an internet business out of Singapore. So welcome, Richard, to talk today about China and about health and where he sees the greatest source of wealth in his life.

So welcome, Richard. Thank you very much for joining us from Beijing. And Rich Robinson, share a little bit about yourself, your background, and why you're a Silver Fox Entrepreneur.

Jim James, ladies and gentlemen, such a pleasure and honor. My old friend, we both have alliterative names, Jim James, Rich Robinson. Clark Kent, Peter Parker. I guess we are the aging superheroes of the startup world, although I definitely feel more like a supervillain that's been beaten up over the last few decades as a serial entrepreneur. So I've been here for 25 years here in the Middle Kingdom as a serial entrepreneur, and I love the art of the start. I've been part of 8 startups, 3 as an exec in private companies that went public, and 5 as a founder, sold 3 to publicly listed companies. And I've been involved with hundreds of others as a mentor through 500 Startups or China Accelerator or HAX or Stanford Ignite, and dozens of others as a board member, advisor, angel investor, in the war room, so to speak. I teach entrepreneurship at Peking University here in Beijing. I teach executives about innovation and going global. I also teach at Alibaba University down in Hangzhou about the spirit of entrepreneurship. I have 3 kids, entrepreneurial wife, and all my chips on red here in the Middle Kingdom.

Great, Richard. You and I have known each other since 2007 when you convinced me to go to Dubai. And, uh, and we learned about EO and the entrepreneurs.

I think— I think— yeah, sorry, we've known each other since the late '90s in Hong Kong.

Oh, that's right. My word, there's a whole part of my life that just evaporated from my mind from when I had my dot-com back in '98 in Singapore.

That's right.

So you and I have known each other for, wow, 20-odd years now. Um, so tell me, I mean, you and I have been doing entrepreneurship for, for long time now. So tell me, what's your view on why it's the best to be an entrepreneur later on in life, you know, as a maturepreneur? What have you found is different to when you were younger, and why is it better?

I think both subjectively and objectively and qualitatively and quantitatively, there's no doubt that it is the Entrepreneur that is on the wrong side of 40 or the wrong side of 50 that is much better suited to the entrepreneurial pursuits. There is a narrative that it's about the young naive optimist who lives on ramen noodles and is like maybe Daffy Duck, you know, I'm so crazy, I don't know, this is impossible. And once in a while, those entrepreneurs like a Zuckerberg will hit it big, and the press loves those stories. But I think the true best-suited person for entrepreneur is somebody who's not a naive optimist, but I would say an informed realist. So you've been working in an industry You have the experience, you have the skills, you have the network, and you have probably like an insider secret. You see that something is broken, you know that you can create a solution to that problem, but more importantly, you know that you can exploit that opportunity. It's not just about creating a solution to a problem, it's really about exploiting an opportunity in that really takes the skills and the network and the industry know-how to be able to get that done.

I think you're right. One minor comment, you said being on the wrong side of 50. For those of us on the other side of 50, I might argue it's the better side of 50.

Sure.

When you talk about exploit, there's a big chasm between having the idea, seeing the opportunity, And making that into a sustainable business. Now, you've done that multiple times. Do you want to just take us through some of the learning, some of the steps, some of the things that you kind of know how to do when you start a new business? What's your kind of toolkit and your checklist? Just walk us through that, can you, Richard?

Certainly.

I think there are very learnable skills around the foundation of entrepreneurship, you know, the ideation and team building and product development and marketing, and then, you know, raising capital and the expansion of that.

And I think that a lot of those skills are already internalized by people who have had a career, whether it's You know, it doesn't have to be entrepreneurial. It could be in the— even in the, you know, government or corporate or some sort of, you know, nonprofit organization. There are a lot of team building skills around that. But I think probably more importantly, it's being resilient and having the desire to be a continuous learner. And to cross the river by feeling the stones, so to speak. There's an expression in Chinese which is "摸着石头过河," which means to cross like a rushing river, but you can't see what's underneath. You have to kind of use your toes to kind of deftly find the right footing, touch the rocks by going across. And I think it's a mix of those skills of that. fundamental basis of doing business, but also the ability to not be discouraged and to be relentlessly resourceful and find your way across. I think that wisdom that comes with age is very helpful around that.

Richard, I love that, and your Chinese is much, much better than my Mandarin. How do you think it's different starting a business away from where you live? I mean, you started businesses in China, I started them in Singapore and China. How do you see it as being different if you're not in your home country?

Yeah, it's both a risk multiplier, as well as an ability to dip into new opportunities. I think the risk multiplier, of course, someone once told me, you don't have to necessarily understand Chinese to be successful in China, but you have to understand Chinese. Even if you don't speak the language super well, you have to really understand the local culture to be able to get things moving, and maybe you have a lack of a network and That's the risk multiplier, but you can also bring in Western sensibilities, and you can bring in global connections and your approach that can give you perhaps a competitive advantage in that market. It's not always guaranteed. I think these days, China is much more difficult for foreigners. Probably a place like Indonesia, which has got $3,800 in GDP per capita, hits $4,000 in GDP per capita, and then there's a lot of things that are unlocked in the digital economy and other opportunities, a little more chaotic and raw, so more opportunities there. So I think there's certainly that. And I think also, What do I know? You know, it's that old saw of like the fish that's swimming in the ocean and older fish and he sees 2 younger fish and, good morning, sir. Good morning, guys. Hey guys, how's the water? Oh, the water's great. And then he swims away and they said, what the hell is water? So I don't even know. I've had my entire career out here, so I'm not even sure what it is like to work in the West versus working in the working here in China, so I'm kind of, uh, broken in that regard.

Well, it's interesting you say that. I mean, one of the aspects of running a business is differentiation, that, you know, you need to be different. And one of the things I found working both in Singapore and China was that by being a foreigner, I was already differentiated, and I didn't have to do that part of the work. You know, you had to build systems and brand, but you, you're very your very nature meant that you stood out in the market. And that can also sometimes just be a massive, massive win without having to do anything extra. You mentioned China, Richard, and you mentioned it's getting harder. Can you share your insights? Why is it getting harder, do you think? Is it political? Is it economic? Or is it just that the competition in China from domestic entrepreneurs is getting stronger?

Certainly all of the above. I mean, I think it was much more Wild West when we first got here 20 years ago. And I like to say that in China, everything is possible, but nothing is easy. That's certainly still the case. And, you know, the natural progression and evolution of the country has made things a little more buttoned up and a little more Challenging to just comply, but then at the same time, in my business, which is the business of doing innovation-driven enterprises, I think there's 2 distinct types of entrepreneurship. One is we know exactly what the business model is. We know exactly what the product and service is. For instance? I'm going to start a consulting service, or I'm going to open a restaurant, or I'm going to open a clothing boutique. Like, those business models have existed for centuries even.

But the kind of innovation-driven stuff that I've been doing, which is let's create an app or a service where it's not quite been done before, that's sort of Silicon Valley type innovation, There are many, many ecosystems, the Silicon Roundabout in London, Berlin, my hometown of Boston, Los Angeles, Singapore, but unquestionably, qualitatively and quantitatively, the only ecosystem that is anywhere near close and in some ways rivals and even exceeds Silicon Valley is Beijing. One measure is the number of unicorns, number of companies valued at over $1 billion. Beijing actually has more than Silicon Valley and is actually producing more now than Silicon Valley, has actually exceeded it. So here in Beijing, if you're an internet entrepreneur, the ecosystem is highly evolved and extremely well-funded, and there's just gladiatorial-type competition. That's the world that I live in here. There's a big perception previously that China was a copycat culture and that Big Brother protected everything, but what I live and breathe every day is innovation and competition.

Richard, how do you compete as a foreigner and experienced and seasoned, of course, but how do you succeed in that gladiatorial ring? I know you're a great fighter, but any secrets? Because starting a business in a foreign market has got to be, for me anyway, one of the hardest things. So how do you get up every day and go back into battle?

Indeed, indeed. So I think I focus on my strengths, which is I bridge companies going abroad. The last startup I founded, I was president. Co-founder, but I was all about taking this kung fu ball of power, if you will, that was generated vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom here in China, and then pushing that out around the rest of the world. There's a lot more of that happening these days. A lot of companies have global ambitions and global footprints, and they need that. And then these days I do a lot of investing and advising, and I help companies bridge into China as well too. That gives me a defensible position these days.

That's an interesting point. One of the things that you and I discussed before is that we both started companies for many, many years, and then moving into more of a mentorship and in your case, teaching role, how are you redefining and reinventing yourself? in the market from a positioning point of view? What are you doing to let people know that you're playing a new role?

Yeah, great question. My wife, Em, who you know well, really helped me to really define who I am, like really, really figure out my purpose. I think if I could Summarize myself in 2 words, I would say curious connector. So I love learning and I love— I'm an extroverted extrovert, so I love connecting people to people, but also people with ideas and opportunities and companies. And I love to be a continuous learner. I love this exercise by Tim Ferriss. He talks not about goal setting, but about fear setting.

What's your fear?

And my biggest fear unquestionably is stagnation. I don't want to become irrelevant. I want to stay in the game. And I think I never want to retire. I have a 30-year plan. I'm 52. I want to stay engaged well into my 80s. And I think as a person who can connect and cajole and counsel, That's really where I fit. And so teaching, I've found, is a fantastic way for me to sharpen the axe. I'm forced to learn by teaching. I have to keep it fresh and I have to bring in, use my connecting powers to bring in amazing guest speakers, young and old entrepreneurs and people in the ecosystem.

And my advisory work, the same.

I get to harvest but also refresh and expand my network. And expand my knowledge into new verticals like edtech. I wasn't involved in education technology a couple of years ago, but now I've helped 3 companies do that.

And now I have a pretty good network and pretty good view of that. So I found that definitely as I age, I can really focus on my strengths, but harvest my my wisdom and my connections. And then I found the real sweet spot is where I have an intersection of multiple verticals. So to be able to, for instance, say right now I'm helping a company that's doing mobility, but also leveraging artificial intelligence and also leveraging electronic vehicles.

And like, you know, that's—

those are like an intersection of a new industry that I can quickly build up my connections around.

Great. Richard, you've always been an amazing connector and an amazing originator of ideas too. And one of the things that you've always inspired in me is around fitness. You talk about being 50, but if anyone was to meet you, they would not think you're 50. You look amazing, and you're super fit. How do you do that? You want to talk about how— because when I met you originally, that was not the case. So you want to tell us about the physical journey? Because staying young is also a physical issue as well as an intellectual one. So can you share what you've learned and your wisdom, your practices there?

Yeah, nice.

Good question.

So I crumbled. I literally crumbled in my 30s.

I was always fit.

I was always Very keen exerciser, and then I subscribe to the SAD, the Standard American Diet, which is eat whatever you want, whenever you want, however much you want. And so, I think diet is absolutely unquestionably the pillar, and there's 3 levers that I pull. There is the diet lever. You know, what I eat. There's the time lever, when I eat, and there is the caloric lever, how much I eat. And I'm always pulling the first 2. So for diet, it's really simple. I try to get 10 different colors of vegetables into my body every day. Data really shows that, you know, if you just jam a lot of different colorful vegetables into your body, then that's an amazing building block. And then the other one is I really try to eliminate sugar. It's really just poison. And then for timing, I subscribe to a 16:8 or an 18:6. So, if you eat within a time-restricted window, it's hugely beneficial for a number of reasons. You can look at circadian rhythms and look at Dr. Satchin Panda or Rhonda Patrick or Dr. Peter Attia.

And then the third lever of caloric restriction, I pull that once a month.

I do a 1-day fast every month, 24 to 36 hours.

And then once a quarter, I do 3 to 7 days of water-only fasting, which is perhaps the number one thing that we can do as we're aging.

For health, it has insanely beneficial outcomes by having an extended fast for more than 48 hours. It basically eats— autophagy eats all damaged cells and boosts your immune system and probably kills cancer cells. So, that's diet.

And for exercise?

I basically do strength, cardio, and flexibility, and I put that into my schedule. It's basically become part of the fabric of my life. And then sleep, there's this book called Why We Sleep that just came out, and it is, Jeff Bezos says I get 8 hours of sleep a night because it's good for my shareholders. Sleep is the ultimate You know, sort of superpower to be showing up as the best version of yourself. And the other 2 things that I do is I meditate and I also do a lot of sauna use.

There are incredible benefits for doing 4+ days in the sauna. And, you know, who knows?

I could get hit by a bus or I have some sort of genetic disposition. I mean, what is wealth if you don't have your health?

And to really, really—

I spend at least an hour a week reading about new studies of health, and I really become an avid student of that, and it's paid incredible dividends.

Could you just explain a little bit about your approach to keeping relationships going? Because you travel a lot. Your wife, Em, travels a lot. You have children from one marriage and you're building a new family. If you're comfortable sharing, because I think a lot of people are in that position.

Yeah, I'm glad you asked that question. I think as I get longer in the tooth, I'm convinced that it's important to be vulnerable and to be authentic. And I'd started a company in '07 with my Then ex-wife, then wife, now ex-wife. And, you know, she moved in with the COO and got pregnant. And, you know, we had 2 boys together. But now we have this messy, manageable modern family. I've remarried. You were at our lovely wedding. I've really met the amazing love of my life, 15 years younger, and we have a little 3-year-old girl. And my ex has a little 7-year-old girl, and then we share these, you know, 2 half-Chinese kids.

And it's a big, messy, manageable modern family, but it all works in love, joy, forgiveness.

And I'm the godfather of, you know, that little girl. And yeah, what's the point to be grumpy about it? You know, the universe rewarded, and I have this beautiful daughter in my life and this, you know, little goddaughter who we call them sisters, right? So I think that's one thing, but I think also I ask my students, like, why are you here? Like, what's the point of being in an MBA class? And there's wealth and status and power and impact, and all of those things are important, but the one thing that trumps all of those things are relationships. And I think The great news is that there's this amazing TED Talk, TEDxBeaconHill, set in Boston, in my hometown, where they followed these men for 80, 90 years. Now they're following their children, and they asked them the predictor of their happiness in the future, and it turns out it was all about relationships. It's all about relationships. So that's really the good news is that relationships are the The ultimate sort of metric for success, right? Warren Buffett says happiness or success is when the people you love love you back. That's great. The downside is that a bigger predictor of ill health, more than a sedentary or obese lifestyle, is isolationism. And a lot of people are lonely and isolated, especially men, because They're not as great at maintaining relationships as women, and they kind of let relationships go to the wayside. And you have to be really intentional, like you and I did with the Entrepreneurs Organization, and meet on a monthly basis and maintain and keep these relationships and work with people. And that's why I love teaching. That's why I love mentoring, being with younger people, adding value around that, learning from them. That's super powerful, giving my time. I always like to have a plus, equal, and a minus, where I have a person older than me, more experienced, that I have as a mentor. Then I have an equal, which is somebody who's a peer mentor, and we really kick each other's asses.

Then I have minus, somebody at least 7 or maybe even 20 years younger than me, 30 years younger than me, that I can mentor and guide.

Richard, that's a wonderful and articulate answer, and obviously a really sensitive one, which is what I'd Come to know and love about you too as a man. Richard, thank you for sharing. And if people want to find out more about you, where can they go to find out about you as a man, what you've learned, what you're doing in China, and as an entrepreneur, as a dad?

Sure, yeah, Richard Robinson, you know, at Twitter, and also Richard Robinson on LinkedIn. as well, as well too. And I guess you can just Google, Google that and see New York Times piece and China Daily piece and other stuff about my entrepreneurial journey and my life. And yeah, it's a pleasure and honor to be on your podcast, my friend, and all the best.

Thank you, Richard. And obviously, we'll put links to you and everything you shared in the show notes as well. So thanks to everybody for listening in. And the reason why I'm working on Silver Fox Entrepreneurs is precisely what Richard was talking about, is men later on in life, we lose connection. And actually, it's the relationships and the learning from one another that actually will keep us happy and healthy into our later lives. So thanks so much for listening. And Richard, as always, I don't know whether I'm in the younger or the plus or the negative or the equal sign on your relationships, but I'm just proud to be at least one of those.

You're the equal, my friend. Jim James, ladies and gentlemen, give it up.

Thank you to Richard for spending his time with us today, and really useful, especially some of the healthcare tips and his view on relationships being perhaps the most important source of wealth. If you'd like to find out more about Richard, you can find him on LinkedIn, Richard Robinson China. He's the only one there, and he is a superstar on LinkedIn. You can also just Google him, Richard Robertson China. That's us for Silver Fox Entrepreneurs for this week. Thank you very much for listening. Again, if you like it, please subscribe under the Apple iTunes and leave us a rating. Look forward to tuning in with you next time. Bye-bye.