Triple Your B2B Growth in Under a Year | Insider Secrets from the CEO of Do Good Work

I want to read something to you from my next guest's website because it kind of summarizes where we're going to go with this conversation. It says, we have almost tripled in growth in one year. More importantly, it's given me my time and my sanity back. And that is just one client, Aaron Parkinson, the CEO of a company called Seven Mile Media. And he is the client of my guest today, who is Raul Hernandez, who's joining us.

Hi, Jim.

all the way from San Diego, has a company called Do Good Work. Raul's website has got a long list of clients who have increased revenue, increased their profits by a special secret formula that Raul is going to share with us today. Raul, welcome to the show.

Jim, thanks for having me.

It's my pleasure. Well, with a website full of testimonials like this, how could I not want to hand the mic to you? And I kind of let you take it away. So we're going to talk about how you're helping clients predominantly in the B2B space to increase revenue without increasing the workload. And that's the key, isn't it? Often people are in service businesses kind of increasing revenue and the overhead increases commensurately, really, especially if you're in a service-based business. You're hiring more people to serve more clients. But you seem to have got some approach methodologies that you're going to share with us that really help people to break out of that cycle. So, Ro, tell us what Aaron and Jimmy Coleman and AJ Wilcox and Regina, just to name a few, what are they getting when they work with you?

They're getting the experience of getting kicked in the teeth and punched in the face. So knowing what not to do the hard way. No. So with Aaron, I primarily helped him as a COO within his agency growing. I was, it was like a merger acquisition and I helped him grow. We were almost nearly 3x in less than a year. Given maybe another 30 days, we would've done it. But the key thing there is around creating frameworks around growth and scalability. And this is just, This is not just for hypergrowth. A lot of the principles that I developed working with Aaron and that I worked and implemented with Jimmy and AJ and Arujit and others as well is a 3-pronged approach of looking at growth from a holistic point of view. So I'm gonna give away like all the frameworks because I think I'm a framework system thinker applying that to specific areas and segments of a company. So every single company has 3 different components. They have operations, they have marketing, sales, and product. Marketing is, I call that marketing and sales, but it's operations, marketing, and product. Around those 3, you want to dive into and getting clear of where you're at, where do you want to go? And then from there, once you have a plan and a strategy to do that, you want to be able to build what I call evergreen workflows or habits, because in a company, everything is an action and it's a habit if you're doing it correctly over time, consistently over time, because you're not just wanting to be successful in a year, 3 years. You want this to, you wanna be looking at the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And how do you do that? Through consistency. How do you do that? Through endurance. So the habits are actions that either you as the founder perform, someone else on your team performs, or a machine performs. And now with the rise of AI, machines can be more prevalent, but they're not gonna fully replace 100% of humans. But they can replace a lot of the mundane or support a lot of the research or support a lot of the backend automations and things that you don't need to be doing. So step 1 again was clarity. Step 2 was building the evergreen Flows, and then step three is synchronizing that, synchronizing that with yourself, with your team, with others, with the marketplace, and through communication. Because the one true thing that stands apart from a business that's going to be sustainable for the years to come is the level of the leadership that runs within that business, and that does stem limited or maxed out by the founder. And if you're the limiting cap, then the company can only be as good as you. But if you invert it and you support build others up and the company can be greater than you. So there's a key and an art. It's not a simple science of capturing that, but that's the leadership portion. But that's the framework and methodology that I've worked on, developed, and compounded on. Wrote a book about it. So if you want to get access to that, you can. But from there, we look at different areas of the company for lead to optimize leadership, lead to optimize operations, lead to optimize LTV, and then keeping clients on longer, or if you need to optimize sales and revenue, which predominantly is probably where we're going to spend this conversation, you use that framework approach. And then from there, we dissect each area to help you reach whatever goal you're trying to reach.

Wonderful. You dropped in LTV, which is lifetime value, I think. Is that right? That's the—

Correct.

The term that you just, you just learned. Yeah. So the, this is sort of winning business, delivering business, and managing business maybe is a, another way of of breaking down those 3 elements of any company, isn't it?

I love that. Yeah, that's, that's a really simple way of putting it. That's brilliant.

Yeah, I think that's when I sort of built my businesses. I really sort of clarified it with those 3 because it helps people to figure out which, which role they might be playing. Let's, let's go through, Raul, a case. Let's say, you know, you— if we can talk to that first company and you, you talk about putting in Evergreen systems. What do you mean by an evergreen system? Is that, you mean it's eco-friendly or?

Oh yeah. Yeah, no detergents and no dyes. No, so I look at coming from a holistic point of view and I hate these trendy words, but I have no other word that I can use that actually is all-encompassing around the company. Looking at How do you go to market? How are you currently selling? Who are you selling to? What happens when you close the sale? Who hands it off? Who executes it? How is it being executed? What tools do you use? What are the systems behind that? How do you keep the client or the account longer? How do you upsell, cross-sell, downsell from there? What happens during offboarding? How do you manage the team? How do you think about the team? How do you think about yourself and your opportunity? And the marketplace as a whole. So I look at all those key things and I have a proprietary like audit process that I work with clients with. But once we do that and we identify, cool, now I know where you're at and I know the heartbeat of your organization through sales, through numbers, KPIs, as well as communications, then you gotta tell me, well, where do you want to go? Because growth is not a black and white binary thing. Growth is actually very relative and I'll explain why. Sometimes growth means the same number of team and a higher profit margin and less stress. I mean, who wouldn't? I mean, I personally am a fan of that, like same profitability or higher profitability, no more like overhead and less stress. I mean, if we're looking at optimizing for quality of life, it's not a bad deal. Others want real tangible growth in terms of top line revenue. At times that could harm the profit margin, but that's okay because it's a temporary season because you're increasing the number of people. And then from there, that also increases the leadership level of growth that you have to have. So there's different ways to approach growth. So whatever that means for the founder that I'm working with, and I typically tend to attract a certain type of founder through my marketing and through my conversations and just who I am. It's something to also know as you're listening to this, that you will attract a certain type of people because of who you are, frankly, and how you communicate to other people. And that's not a bad thing. You just have to have the humility of knowing who you actually are and who you're attracting. And if there's a disconnect between who you're serving and who you're wanting to serve, gotta look in the mirror first. But that's a different conversation. But then once you identify where do you want to go, then it's building a game plan around, like you mentioned, and I think I'm gonna use that moving forward cuz it was really helpful, how you're getting the clients, how you're servicing them and keeping them on longer, and how you're servicing the team to keep them on longer so that the business can actually run and you have a business, not an offering. Or a lifestyle. You have something that can run without you. And I think that's the best way to create, and not to sound again like a trendy word, but it's the best way to create wealth, to be able to have an asset that builds assets for you and you can support others to make life-changing money. That's kind of the reason of why I'm in business.

So, well, you've talked through frameworks and my experience with frameworks and systems is they make a business more efficient. and they improve net margin, and you can replace people for systems quite often, especially now with, with technology. But that, that gets to a certain level of incremental growth within the margin. But I think you've also been able to get quantum growth, haven't you, for your clients? I— you've kind of moved to another line on the P&L. How have you done that? Because that's not an efficiency issue. There's another level of gain, isn't there, for a company selling the same thing, but maybe to different customers in a different way? Can you just take us through that, Raul?

Yeah, absolutely. And one of my best friends is an accountant. So I'll say this tongue in cheek is that you can't just cut costs to grow, but he also does jiu-jitsu. So I might get knocked out by saying that. Uh, but you, you're completely right. You can't, you can cut to grow, but that's only gonna take you so far. The way that I look at it, and again, I have a simplistic point of view of like, here's just what I know has worked. So it's not the only answer, but I primarily focus on around the sales process and the go-to-market process. Um, in every organization, specifically in B2B, if you have a service or you have a product, we're gonna compartmentalize these things in 3 areas. So you have your product. Your business case, and then the customers that you serve. And we're gonna dissect that. This is a framework. The product that you have, let's put that off to the side. Let's talk about the customers that you serve first. Right now, typically either you're a niche company where you're working with one industry, one particular client, and one clear outcome. That's great, but not to be a thought leader. You don't have to do that to be successful. As a matter of fact, I speak to people and like clients that are not. Niched down. They're generalists, but they have customer segments. So within your organization, identifying who are the customers that I can serve at the highest level, who get the most value from our work, as well as that fit our business model. And finally, this is a nuanced approach that fit our culture, because there has to be a marriage between the culture, the team, the operations, the fulfillment to the actual clientele, how they operate, how they think. What the beliefs that you have to have together in terms of values. So that's one key thing in your customer segment. Per customer segment, you have to have a business case because people don't hire you just because of the work you do. Yes, they do. They can, but that's not really the real reason people hire you. This is a reason why some great, amazing companies with great offerings, beautiful websites do not make more revenue and like suffer with profit. And this is, it's a brutal reality, but you have to have a real business case. Like, why are you actually here? Like, what are you gonna do for me? And that's the question that they ask. I always do this, this thought experiment. I even do it on, on LinkedIn Sales Nav. You open up LinkedIn Sales Nav and you type in, let's just say for example, marketing agency. You type that up, you'll come up, I don't know, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 results. You skim through, and I kid you not, I've actually done that. You skim through 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, every single website is nearly the same. We'll do this for you, we'll do that for you. I have yet to see, we'll do your dry cleaning, pet your dog, and water your plants. But if I did, then it would be the same thing. They'll do X, Y, and Z for me. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. You don't sell services, you don't sell what you're selling. And that's the key thing. So when we talk about business cases is what is the actual area of transformation? What is the pain point the customer that you're serving, the customer segment is facing? What does that transformation look like? What is that end outcome? And do you have— Case studies or testimonials or examples or stories to share, to show and back up proof for that one core area of transformation. And that's just the first thing, because you need to also be able to communicate that in a way that it's timely and relevant to them. And then we finally get to your product or your offering, your service. And here it's less about I can fulfill on that. It's more about we have to imagine that every single one of us runs a product. Even if you do services, you run a product-based business. What does that mean? That means that for every service that you deliver, you have everything quote unquote productized, not templatized in videos and trainings and checklists, because the higher dollar amounts, you'll sell that, but you won't sell that for like the high value that you really can. It means that your team has a process to execute that on repeat. On speed dial when needed. You know the deliverables, the timelines, the cost, the profitability per offering, and the team is confident to fulfill it. So if you have, let's say, 5 core offerings and they're all productized, meaning that they have clear deadlines, clear scopes, clear ownership, clear communication lines, clear profit margins, and when you start creating offerings to the marketplace that are quote unquote bespoke, Or custom. It's just combining 1 or 2 or 3 of the 5 together to create this new offering, which the perceived value can be higher, which serves your customer segment at the right level. We can dive more into that, but that's what I'm looking at when we're looking at increasing incrementally with the business model, the team, and the sales process.

Raul, I'm interested that you differentiate between if you like, having systems and templates, and that you have a productized service. Because for many people, that would be one and the same, a sort of a system of templates and like an offering that's repeatable would be considered a product. So I don't want to labor too long, but I'd love to get your view on what, what makes it then into a product where you can Give it a tangible value that the client will pay more for it than seeing a service that's just efficiently delivered.

I'll give you a story in a real, in a real example. One of my guys used to do the done for you and now sells the done with you, the training, the coaching, and then from there, the execution. Both are successful. And as a matter of fact, I've built teams in-house for coaching coaching, training, and made significant amount of top-line revenue. However, in the business-to-business service side, A-players really don't always want to buy a template. They did like—

I—

they want to buy the outcome. So internally for you, you can have those templates, you can have those systems and everything ironed out, but when you're selling it, you're not selling, hey, I'm going to give you access to these templates. Typically that devalues it because that's more work on the other person's side. And the key thing of perception of value is a perceived level of effort. And if you have the other person do more effort and exertion of energy to get the results, and it's going to be like, oh, well, that's the reason why gym memberships are so cheap versus this dopamine pill supplement thing that is super expensive, more than a gym membership.

I see. So you've got a product and then you're really, you say, helping the the client with a transformation there. And as you say, then they're seeing actually a shorter path to profit themselves, aren't they? Because you're helping them to get, get through that. Well, when you go in and work with people and entrepreneurs, tell us about the mindset change that has to happen within the entrepreneur. Because, you know, entrepreneurs start a business on the whole on their own, or maybe with a partner. It grows, they get more customers, they, they get you in who puts in systems. But what work needs to be done, if you like, through the entire process? Because there's— it has to cascade, doesn't it, into the whole organization? You referenced this earlier on as well in our conversation about sort of the, the mindset of the Of the founder changing. How do you help when you do good work, as your company's called? How do you help the whole business elevate itself?

That's an easier answer than execution, as most things are. I'll tell you a personal story and then as well, like when working with different clients, some of their shared stories. When I have a client that comes to me and they tell me their particular goals and their personality and who they are and the work, like what When we reach their goal, it's like, wow, I need to become a better person. I always think about that, like, I need to become a better person to continue to serve this person, because like, I can't lower my, my self-expectations. Because once you start playing at a different level, it becomes daunting. Like, a parallel to that was like, I'm training right now for an Ironman, like a half Ironman, and some days I really just don't want to do it because every training session is very— it's a real training session.

It is.

So you just can't hide from it. But I know that that's the level that I've set myself to play at. Same thing in business. When you flip that and you work with clients, and when I'm working with clients directly, there's a few things that need to change. Number one is that they already have to have the belief that they need the support to get to the next level. So I'm not convincing them of anything. So that's the first belief is that the humility of knowing, yo, I need some support. Like I can actually benefit from someone else who's done that and helped me. So that's the first thing. So it's almost like a humility mindset, not like I'm so terrible, I'm the worst, more about like, hey, I can't— I'm excellent at what I do. I know that I have areas of growth. That's the growth mindset. The second approach is around knowing that the more that you dive into leadership and the more that you grow in terms of people, if you're adding 5 more people to the staff or you're from 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 employees, you start becoming a coach for them as well. And the same thing that I just mentioned earlier happens to them. It's like, oh crap, I have to become a better person. Like, I have to focus on my habits, which is why I like to focus on daily habits because you can control the future by controlling your habits today. And if you're focusing on the right things and taking the right actions, it's gonna be over time, you will get the right results. Like it's inevitable. Like, it's like, I think that's a law of nature. I'm not too sure, but to dive into that realm of philosophy, but same thing happens with the founders that they have to become a, almost like a coach leader. As Tom Ziegler puts it, is that you have to be able to lead effectively But have other people's intentions and intuition have them lead themselves. And you have to participate in that. The other thing is around sales. When we start working on, hey, the value of your work is actually higher. We may have to increase pricing by, I don't know, 100%, 50%, 200%. Like, that's not unrealistic because in the beginning you were selling by yourself. Now that you have a team or you're growing 10 people or 20 people, you have to play at a different level. You're selling at a different level. And I literally had clients tell me like, I feel like I'm going to get laughed out of the room when I make this offer. And I have to get on coaching calls with them and say, no, you're not. Here's why. And just logically show them, even though emotionally, like it still feels like, oh, I'm nervous about this. And I've done that myself too. And the key thing is when you're trying to shoot home runs or hit home runs, you can hit them. The key thing is to always making sure that you tie it back to value and tying it back to who you are and what you stand for. 'Cause a lot of it also is self-worth reflection. And I don't want to dive too much in that mindset, but do you really believe in the worth of the work that you do? Do you really believe in the wins and the stuff that you've done in the past? Because I think entrepreneurs, we get stuck in our minds around this isn't valuable. I'm actually worse than I actually am. And sometimes that cycle can put you down. And I think that's part of the emotional rollercoaster of entrepreneurship.

Raul, I think you're absolutely right. I do want to pick you up on the term values. You talked about value, and then you went down the path of talking about your own values. But let's just talk for a moment about how you coach that person to position the value in the mind of the client, because this is the key, isn't it, to increasing the, the value, the, the invoice value?

Yes, yes, it is.

It is interpreting for the client How this is going to make them money, right? In B2B settings. So how do you do that? What would be your coach, with your coach hat on, what would you be saying for them to—

You can see them beaming up because they just love, I love doing this. I love making deals and I love helping people win deals. I don't know. It's like a passion of mine.

Right?

So—

Yeah.

That's good.

It's exciting.

You don't always help people make more money. You got to find out who they are first. What point of view do they come from? And this sounds weird, but like, And this, in this client in particular, when we went to market and analyzed their particular ideal clients, because we want to optimize for the best, you can't optimize for, for not the best. We identified that the key clients that they want to serve are 2 types of people. Ones need to feel important and ones need to be right. The others are supportive of the ones that actually give them the opportunity or the donations or the funds to actually execute the work. So at the end of the day, the offer isn't, we're going to help you make more money. Sometimes it's, hey, we're going to help you deploy this effectively. We're going to help you make most of the funds that you have, or we're going to help you increase your perception in the marketplace. And that to them is valuable. And that's really interesting because once you identify who you're selling to, their personality style, their beliefs about themselves, how they view the world, how they like to be communicated, as well as the work that they're in and how does that correlate, then you just tie the sales process to that. And the sales process that I use is fairly Fairly simple. But the key, I mean, everyone probably follows this and I'm not a particular sales trainer here around it, but you'd find out where they're at, where they want to go, and then why they want to get there, what's stopping them, et cetera, et cetera. But when you present, and this could be in the second call, the third call, probably around the second or third call, once you have all the information, the way that I present it and teach clients to present is to not share any slides, to have a real human connection in the beginning. Saying, Jim, I wanna recap what I heard in the first conversation. Can we go through that? Like, yeah, absolutely. I wanna make sure that I heard you correctly. Again, this is all communication. It's from one mind to the other.

Hmm.

And I dive in, Jim, you told me that this is where you're at. These are some of the things that's struggling here. It's causing these frustrations. Is that right? And then from there, you'll either accept it and say, yes, that's right. I've had, when I've done this personally in my calls, where the other person receiving it, not because I'm some sort of manipulative, I'm just Having empathy, they literally drop down their shoulders and say, "Yeah, that's right. That's where we're at right now." And again, I'm not here to. I'm not here to manipulate or sell anything that they don't need. I'm here to serve them. I the first principle of sales. If we are going to do sales training, I follow the Norwegian translation, which means "sellja," which means to serve. Like you're here to serve that other person. Anything else out of that? Like don't listen to this process. But this process. It's like a hammer. You can do really good with it.

Um, this is interesting, this idea that you're, you're getting into the same frame of mind as the person who's sitting on the other side of the table.

Yeah, that's the beginning. And then from there you say, okay, cool. And what I like to do is metaphorically move on their side of the table and address the problem on the other side of the table. And this, this may not always work depending on who you're working with. Some people are more objective and less, uh, emotional, empathetic. But regardless, you want to make sure that they feel heard because depending on where they are in the personality style, that makes them feel important or that makes them feel supported or that makes them feel, uh, you know, cared for or loved. Again, depending on who they are, or if they're super analytical, it makes them know like, hey, this person paid attention. Like, it depends on who they are. But once you move on their side of the table and you address the problem, I like to say, okay, cool. You told me this is your goal. Is that correct?

Okay.

Here's what needs to be true to reach that goal. Not, here's what I'm gonna do for you. Not, here's what we can do for you. Not, here's how awesome my product is. It's more, here's what needs to be true, because that's saying silently, irregardless if you work with me or some other person, here's what needs to be true. And you go down the list of what needs to be true, and here you scope out the top of the top, best of the best, everything that you would dish out for them. Going back to your productized services, it's like you're not making up anything new here. You're just combining the things that they need, but you're presenting it like, here's the red carpet, here's what needs to be true. Do you agree? Yeah, I feel like that's, that's true. Awesome. Here's how we can work together, and then present them options. Which path do you want to take? You can do 2 options, 3 options, no more than 3 options. And this is pricing psychology. I don't know who invented this, but Price anchor the highest on the left, mid in the middle, and then the low on the lowest. And the lowest has to be above your profitability numbers. So you'll never sell under profit. And this isn't some secret manipulative way so people can go ahead and choose the middle. I usually have people choose the top. Are we underpricing? Maybe. I don't think so. But the whole point of presenting options is number one, you're not forcing them. They self-select and close themselves. And the beauty of this process is it opens up the door for negotiation. That's all you wanna have. You wanna have a conversation. Here's what needs to be true. We both agreed this is the suck state. This is the future state. Here's what needs to happen to actually execute this. There's no ifs, buts, or whats. Like, this is like the laws of nature. Like, you have to do these things to get to that output. Like, you can't defy this. Okay, cool. How do you want us to help you reach that? Which vehicle do you want to get in?

Yeah.

And that's where the negotiation, the conversation starts, and your higher probability of winning the deal because you've given them options. You've done it from a strategic point of view, not as a vendor, not as a freelancer or like an agency freelancer. You've done it from a place of partnership and strategy because that's what people secretly want. They want leadership. They want someone that's going to get it done. done right, but someone that I can work with.

And I think, Raul, what you've done there is beautifully really annotate the process of, you know, physically probably, but certainly figuratively speaking, being on the same side of the table as the person you're selling to. And as you say, looking at the same problem from the same place rather than A tug of war over, you know, I'm going to sell you this and you're gonna negotiate for the most you can get from me for the least you can pay from me, right? Which is where that normally ends up in, in, in tears, right? Because the, the agency walks out of the room going, we, we gave away too much, and the client ends up not getting what they want because they—

Exactly. Or you oversell and then fulfillment can't fulfill, or you're fulfilling at a loss. All these different scenarios. And also the way that I present it, I literally present those as slides, but I don't put, here's who we are, here's what we've done. Like, no one cares. They only care, what are you gonna do for me?

Yeah.

Like, no one cares about your— I mean, I know listening to this, I'm not non-empathetic about your experience. You're superiorly unique in who you are and the experience that you have. There's no one else like you. But when you're talking to the client, They care about themselves only. So you have to mirror that to them. And the way that I present this is, here's what needs to be true. Here are the options. Making it superiorly easy to make a decision. You want to not— I've seen these proposals where it's like 8 pages and it's like bullet point, bullet point. And I'm like drowning. I'm like, what the— what are we doing? Like, I just wanna know.

Yeah.

It's super overwhelming. And these could be great companies. I've also had Chinese menus sent to me from, from different service providers where we're gonna do this, this, this, and this. email. These emails cost $500 apiece. And I'm like, $500? What are you doing for me for $500 for an email? Like, I can do that with like—

Yeah, so it gets overcomplicated, doesn't it? And, um, the, the person whose book you might be referring to is Hermann Simon, who has a great book called— yeah, it's a great book. He's a German chap, and he wrote a book called Confessions of a Pricing Man. And, uh, yeah, he wrote it in the 1960s, I think it was, and really talks about how they use pricing to impact the psychological, um, impact of products. And they used it like getting people to take trains and stuff like that. Yeah, Herman Simon. It's an old book, but a really, a really interesting book if you're into, into pricing theory. Um, well, you're plainly someone who thinks a great deal, and, you know, you're active on lots of levels, and you've got 2 young kids as well as doing an Ironman. When it comes to learning for you, where do you go in terms of podcasts and, or books? What would be your go-to or one that struck you recently?

For learning, I probably read, I'm always reading either 2 or 3 books at a time. It's just, I don't know who I am and books are the most golden pieces of information that we could ever put our hands on, life experience for $30. $20. It's like, that's invaluable.

Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? You get someone's life experience for $20, right?

It's fascinating. Or any topic really. So I usually do audiobooks and I'm always on the go. I'm always listening on 2, 3x speed. That's how I can down 2, 3 books every week or 2 or over a weekend. The best book that has influenced me. So I've actually kept a library because I've, I read, I'm not going to say how many books I read because that's the egotistical thing, but it's a lot of books a year. Like, here are the books that I would want my son to read, or I need to buy the physical version. I have some of them on my shelf over here. The one book that has influenced a lot of me to date would be Ziglar's See Up Top. Reason being is that if you change the way that you approach your thinking, and then the book is great, the book is really insightful, but it's the ideas that you get from listening to that kind of material. And the key thing here is The way that you change your view and your lens and the glasses that you wear for the same reality that you're in, the same experience that you have, the same everyday-to-day things, and you see new opportunity. I think that's the golden nugget from that book is to see the new opportunities in the plain existence that you're in. And that's part of what I do here with sales. It's like I look at a company, I look at what they're doing, I find the valuable thing that no one else has seen because everyone is sitting on gold. Like the clients that I'm serving right now, the prospective clients that I'm working to serve, they're literally sitting on gold. They just need someone to help extract it, shine it off, and then present it to the marketplace.

Raul Hernandez, if someone wanted to find you that piece of gold and have you help shine their gold, where would they find you?

Uh, the best place would be the website at dogoodwork.io or LinkedIn. You can just search for me at Raul Hernandez Ochoa.

And of course, I'll put Raul's details in the show notes. Raul, thank you so much for joining me all the way from San Diego. And we've really gone very deep into some really interesting areas. And whoever's been listening to this, I'm sure will better look at their existing negotiations from an entirely different perspective. So thank you so much for sharing that today.

It's a pleasure. Thank you, Jim.

So we've been listening to Raul Hernandez Ocoa, who is in San Diego, runs Do Good Work. And it's dogoodwork.io, by the way, if you're looking for his website. And I'll put his website details in the show notes. And as always, thank you for listening to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur with me, your host, Jim James. And until we meet again, I just do encourage you to keep on communicating.

Thank you.