Unlocking the Secret Sauce: Confident Messaging and Authentic Connections in PR & Content Creatio...

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. And today, really excited because we're going all the way to Hong Kong, to Lantau Island, to talk to Karen Gamba. Karen, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me on the show, Jim. I love your work, so I appreciate it.

Well, look, we're loving your work. Thank you for the kind words. And well, you're going to tell us about the EXV Agency that you've built and its Atlanta, New York, and Hong Kong. And you're integrating unscripted TV. You've got a production business that's helping people to create content and events and also traditional PR and content creation through digital. So Karen, we've got a lot to cover today, including how you've built this business. So let's first start. Tell us about EXV Agency. know, and the kind of clients that you're serving, the services that you're providing?

Sure. So I am a recovering corporate American person. I worked in content marketing, client development for law firms and financial firms for most of my career. I realized that whenever I was attending events for these corporations, the thought leaders that were being displayed or that were speaking always had this idea that they wanted a little more. So, if they were behind a big company, they were still looking for opportunities to brand themselves and kind of tell people their stories behind why they work for Nike or why they work for UBS. So, I realized there was an opportunity there. I left corporate America and started Ellipsis LLC, which was my first company in 2015. And I was mostly representing Law firm clients, law firms themselves, individual attorneys and people within law firms, financial institutions, international ones like UBS and Morgan Stanley and Deutsche Bank, and also the individuals within. And so I had created a pretty robust network of people within those corporate industries. I met my business partner a few years later who was focused a bit more on social clients. Very big bar mitzvahs and weddings and bat mitzvahs for very high-profile clients. He was with a company called Ventus Global, and his name is Frank Carlisi. We had a conversation. I was going to say over coffee, but we actually had it over margaritas. And he said to me, why don't we marry these companies? That way we can cater to both social and business clients. And it really worked well because in integrating our expertise together, we were able to really connect and grow. And this is the thing that I will tell people over and over again. Yes, if you shine, you can shine well on your own, but through great collaborations and partnerships, you can just shine so much brighter. It's a quicker way to get PR and visibility for yourself. And it's a simple trick. So, we were offered the opportunity to do this very big event at an iconic venue in New York City. City. We sold it out. And the way our names were displayed on the marquee were the 2 names of our previous companies, which was Ellipsis and Ventus. And because they didn't have an ampersand for the marquee, they used an X. And it was the first time we actually saw the potential of our partnership, Ellipsis x Ventus. And that's how EXV was actually born. And the side note, background inside joke we have is that we both love the X-Men. So, we love the fact that there's an X in our name. We're both comic book nerds. And so, it's just something that we enjoy seeing on our logo. And I believe you have to enjoy what you do every day. And if you look at your logo and smile, that's a good start.

Yeah, that's wonderful. And that's really, as an entrepreneur, what you have to get up every day believing in what you're doing, don't you? It's fantastic. So, now you've moved to Hong Kong and set up EXV over there. If you were to meet an unnoticed entrepreneur, Karen, what would be some of the guidance and advice you'd give them to get started? Because, you know, you've mentioned that we're all on a journey to getting noticed. How do you help people that are taking those first steps?

I believe in approaching every single person with vulnerability. One of the things I have learned in my career is that sometimes the most senior executives in the world are the ones who are most afraid of putting themselves out there. They are the ones who are afraid of asking the question in the room because they are the one that people look up to. And they feel like, oh, I don't want people to think I don't know what I'm talking about or I don't know something about anything. And what I try to do when I'm speaking with a client, whether it's a CEO of a huge company or someone just starting their business, is kind of put them at ease and let them know that every entrepreneur has to start somewhere. Mark Cuban started somewhere. And that the best way to move yourself forward is to really start creating an imprint for yourself by connecting with others authentically. I always lead with that because at the end of the day, your product, your book, your company, whatever it is that you are putting out into the world has to be drilled down to your personal core values. Your core values are going to impact the way you connect with others, the way you connect with your employees, and how you scale. So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you're selling. You have to stay true to yourself and you have to really learn how to be confident about that messaging because that is the thing when it comes to PR and visibility that makes you stand out. That is the outlier concept that any PR person is going to drill down into. And sometimes it's a difficult conversation to have, especially if someone is particular particularly introverted, or as I mentioned, a senior person who's afraid to show a little bit of humility or vulnerability. So, the way I honestly do it and the way we do it with our team is we have conversations with people like people. Our firm, our agency is— it includes psychology. It includes therapy. It includes encouragement. And it includes Letting people know what the process is. If someone isn't ready, we, we let them know that, okay, this is going to take a little bit more time. Maybe you need a bit of media training. Maybe you need to look into something like this. But not one client is the same as another. And so each one needs to be approached very differently. And we have to do the work to realize that each business and each individual He's a unique story and find a way to connect. That is the first thing you need to do.

Karen, you've mentioned there about people being sort of reticent, shy about being vulnerable. Why do you think that is? What are people afraid of? And why should they then, if you like, have faith that it's okay to face that?

Honestly, a lot of the time people will come to us and want to retain us and then say, I'm afraid of boasting about myself. I'm afraid of the PR and having people think I'm bragging about this book I wrote or this new company I'm launching. And people are afraid of things that you would be surprised by usually. They're afraid to tell people about what they did. And I think it's because so many of us were raised in a world where, you know, you don't go out there beating your chest and saying, oh, look how wonderful I am. Some people do it very well. Other people, most people are the ones who prefer to keep their heads down and kind of fly under the radar and hope someone else will give them visibility. So again, it's about connecting with that person and finding a way to uncover what that outlier concept is and connecting with a comfortability that is going to allow them and coax them out of their shells. Some people are easier to deal with than others. Some people come to the table with a fully fledged media kit headshots on the top of the pyramids, a beautiful bio that was written by Malcolm Gladwell. You know, some of the people come to the table like that. But for the most part, whether we're dealing with corporations that are global or as we mentioned, emerging people, the mom-and-pop shop that's just starting, it's about finding a way that is their level of comfortability and real— and understanding what it is they're going to need. To make them as successful as possible. And that's really what it's about.

Karen, you've touched on a couple of, if you like, building blocks. Could you just maybe give us a kit list as, you know, EXV, if you found a new client, an unnoticed entrepreneur that was launching something? Could you just give us maybe, you know, that list of things that you'd ask them to build or you'd help them to create, of course?

Right. So, we're very— we're as full-service as I think most PR companies can be. We're actually trying to scale back some of the services because I think there's a kitchen sink in here somewhere. But honestly, the way we approach this is we've created a client intake form that really starts with simple questions. And one of the simplest questions we ask people is, are you ready for PR? Because that's a question that stumps people. They think because they wrote a book or they have a product or a business that the PR is going to flow. So being able to educate clients about the process, even people who are like, oh, I've worked in PR, I know how it works, sometimes don't know how it works. Because when you're on the other side of the table, it's a very different thing. So what we try to do very initially, if we have a potential new client at the table, is really educate them about the process. We go through what this process looks like for them, and it's very transparent about how this is going to work for them and how we're holding their hand through this process. But the other thing we tell clients right off the bat is no matter how much money is on the table or how little money is on the table, you cannot depend on a PR agency to make you famous. You have to do the work as well. PR is collaborative. You cannot pay someone and then walk away and hope for the best. And the reason why I say this is we have clients who in the past have retained us and said, okay, let me know. I'm exaggerating here. Let me know when I have a spot on CNN. And it's like, no, that's not how it works. We need to, from you, draw out your thought leadership. We need to let people know why they should be connecting you. And therefore, you need to start working on your own visibility. PR, once you hire the agency, That's when the work begins for the client. You know, we're there in the periphery supporting it, offering strategy and a campaign and how you're— this is going to work. But I think too many people are not educated about the process. So we as EXV, from the intake form, let them know exactly what they can expect. And also let them know that, listen, just because you're an attorney and we have this success story with this other attorney, Doesn't mean your stories are going to be the same. You have very different things. Some people are litigators in a courtroom. Some people are corporate attorneys who work behind a desk with a door shut. So it's a completely different thing.

Okay, Karen, so great. You get people on board and you've given them, if you like, a kit list of things that they need to build, which is really, really useful. So when you help clients, you know, you've got offices in Atlanta and New York and Hong Kong. As an entrepreneur, I'd love to hear from you. How have you faced any challenges that you faced from building a global agency?

There were many challenges because first of all, New York was our hub where we had our familiarity, our family, friends, and our network. And during COVID when everything kind of shifted for everyone on the planet, that's when we actually had opportunities to move. My business partner is a native New Yorker from the Bronx. That's when he had an opportunity to move to Atlanta. During COVID I had the opportunity to move to Hong Kong. So, we moved at a very interesting/volatile time. And that being said, we had to quickly understand the nuances of being not just in Los Angeles and New York, but being 12, sometimes 13 hours apart, and then dealing with clients within the United States and other parts of the world. that were scattered across time zones. So, the first thing that came to play was realizing losing the luxury of working in the same time zone, working a 9 to 5 or a 9 to 9 or a 9 to midnight. You know, as a small business owner, you never stop working. I have a friend who made a joke once that says, oh, you run your own business, you can choose the hours you work. You can choose which 24 hours a day you're going to work. So, this is something entrepreneurs have to know. And it's really true because the way we have managed this, even to this day, as we have scaled, as our success has grown, I still have to hop on calls at 11 o'clock at night. I still sometimes have to do that obligatory podcast at 2 o'clock in the morning. I still have to deal with a client who needs a little handholding at a very challenging time. Then, I have my business partner in the United States who is dealing with all of the United States clients that are all kind of going for him and our team there because they're on the same hours. So, finding a way to navigate this is what has been most important to us. And the way we've navigated that is really getting some apps that have helped us get organized. Being organized is something that is a constant evolution. We use an app called Monday. Mm-hmm. Which is a task list which we use for every client. We create different boards and we can see no matter which time zone we're in, what needs to be done for that client. We have actually harnessed the power of the different time zones by knowing that when the United States team is sleeping, the Hong Kong team is going to be working on those things that are left over. So, in the beginning, it felt like a great detriment to the company. But until we got organized through these apps, we use an app called Keep, which helps with all our bookkeeping and our newsletters and our mailings and CRM systems all under one umbrella. And then Monday is another thing we use. We use Slack. So, we really try and work around finding ways to be a little bit leaner about how we do things. We still, we can still evolve and we can still do things better. But every single day, every single week, we're finding ways to work smarter and not harder around the clock and really find a way to make this an opportunity instead of, oh my gosh, I just wish we were in the same time zone, for heaven's sakes. Yeah.

No, I hear you, Karen, having run a Singapore, you know, UK business with clients in the US, that sort of global time zone issue. Now, although you're in Hong Kong and you were in New York before, you've written a white paper called Network Like a New Yorker. How does that translate into Asia? Because, you know, you've taken, if you like, a city in America and you've launched a white paper in Hong Kong. That might be a bit counterintuitive. Why is it not called LinkedIn Like Someone on Lantau, for example?

Because I believe that you should always kind of swim against the current a little bit. That's what catches people's attention. Find a way for people to say, how dare she? And then read it and go, oh. So I like, and our team likes to do things, and we encourage our clients, you know, go rogue a little bit. Do something that's going to make people take a second look. Click on the button. You know, of course, be respectful about what you're doing. But there's a reason behind it. Not only to capture people's attention because I am building out the business in Asia and other parts of the world. I just returned from Dubai. There's a big opportunity for business to grow up in it, grow out our business in the UAE. So I chose it in particular, that name, because New York was the playground where I built my business, where as a South African and someone who traveled around the world, that's where I went to the school of hard knocks and learned what I needed to learn. And the thing about New York is everyone is from somewhere else in New York. There are those few New Yorkers who are from New York. So, the lessons I learned, good, bad, ugly, were in New York. And what I was trying to share with the story was that the way I built my business and my success and our agency's business started here. But here's how you translate it into something global. Use the network like a New Yorker formula no matter where you live. So, it was really a personal perspective that came to play. But also, I was trying to be a little bit tricky with people, which is what good PR is.

Well, you've got me to read it. And of course, what we'll do is put a link in the show notes to that, Karen. Now, I've got to ask you, is there something that doesn't work, something that you've tried for EXV that has not got you noticed or got you noticed for the wrong reason? Always useful to find that out as well.

This transcends PR agencies. This is something that small businesses face around the world. And I will tell you, what this growing pain is, is that when you are a small business, you take on every piece of business you can get. Doesn't matter if the client is horrible and taking up 24 hours a day of your time and paying you nothing for it. You will take on as many clients as possible because of desperation and wanting to grow and wanting to be the best you can be. Our personal growing pains and where we failed and really burnt ourselves out was we were doing too much. We have extensive capabilities. There are many things we can do. We are triple threats. We could win EGOTs, right? But that doesn't mean we should. And so, what we did was we scaled back from telling people, yes, we will build your media kit. We will do this. We'll build your website. We'll design your logo. And we partnered with third-party vendors to do so and outsourced that and built that into pricing. It helped us not only grow our network and collaborative partnerships. But it also helped us really build an ecosystem of really great vendors. And taking less— taking more off our plate and filtering it to people where that was their expertise really changed the game for us. So, one of the things I will always share with people is this was one of those try, try, fail, fail, fail things. We didn't learn this the first time. We just kept feeling that offering as much value as possible was the way to go. But often what happens by offering a client too much, they expect more and more and more, and you find yourself doing more and more and more to keep the client happy. So what we did was we had to push the brakes, end a couple of client contracts that had come to an end, and realize that by the next contract, instead of offering 10 bullet points in the proposal, we're offering 5. And maybe the next time we're offering 3 and then having that 4th bullet point where it's a consultation and saying, listen, you need a website. We have someone for that. You need SEO optimization. We have an expert for that. Here's their metrics. You need a social media team. That's what we do. We focus on telling people stories through PR, helping them create very bespoke, high-level events. And working in unscripted television concepts. That is enough work. It's what we do well. We are playing to our strengths, and that is what's helping us scale. Doing the other stuff or trying to learn stuff to keep clients happy will hinder your business. So try and be a bit more selective. Really drill down to the things you do well, because when you do things well, you're more passionate about it. You become frustrated when you're focusing on things you cannot do well. I hated mathematics at school. I never wanted to focus on it. I use the right side of my brain. I love to write. When I write, I'm happy. When I have to figure out how much tip I should leave on a check, I'm sad. So it's a simple translation of how this works. Focus on what you love and keeps you creative, and everything else will flow from that.

Karen Gamba joining me from Lan Tan, Hong Kong. I was going to ask you for one last piece of advice, but you've kind of put together the thing that didn't go well into the one piece of advice. So thank you. You kind of put the— saved me a job there of asking an extra question because you've said really to focus on what you do offer and then you can really add the most value. So Karen Gamba, if you want to find out more about you, where can they do that?

I really encourage anyone who's interested in connecting with me personally to go to my LinkedIn page. It's just Karen Gamba, or the EXV Agency is on LinkedIn. Please visit our website at exv-agency.com. That's where you can actually— at exv-agency.com/whitepapers, you can see an array of the white papers we've done, some of the clients we represent, and some of the fun projects we have worked The way we have scaled our business was through partnerships and collaboration. So that's what I'm most proud of.

Karen Gamba, and rightly so. And it's been a wonderful experience to have you on the show. So I'm very proud that you were willing to come on today. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you for having me, Jim.

So you've been listening to Karen Gamba over there in Hong Kong, all the way in the Far East with me here in the UK, Jim James. I will of course include Karen's details in the show notes. And if you've enjoyed this, do please share this with another fellow unnoticed entrepreneur and review it on the player of your choice. And until we meet again, I just do encourage you to keep on communicating. Thank you for listening.