What are the 4 stages of podcast production and key considerations.

And then, okay, now this looks like a nice clean screen. Let me see if I just make it a little bit bigger. Bigger than that. Okay, can you see on my screen? Pre-production and production. So I'm going to just take you through the stages. And Craig, I'm recording this, I'm filming it and doing Otter. So, you know, take notes by all means, but, um, I'm gonna give you this anyway. So basically what I'm going to do is I'm going to show you this pre-production, production, and there's also post-production, and then distribution. Okay, so I'm going to show you the mind map as we go through here. Okay, um, under pre-production, let's take this first. Okay, now can you still see that okay?

Yes.

I'm quite a fan of— it's called Simple Minds, this mind map software from Germany. It's really nice. So basically, what we need to think about first, and Craig, you've already got a show, but we need to think about the concept of the show. But I'm gonna take you through the different branches of this. Okay? So if we think of, first of all, the purpose of the show, okay, then What I mean by that is, are you trying to make a show that you make money from, or do you want to have a show that is part of something else? So for example, it could be for a cause, you know, like, uh, maybe you're promoting a town like where I live that we're talking about creating a show for the town to promote the town, or it could be because you've got a particular interest area. It could be a social, a social cause, for example. So what's the purpose is really key. Actually, that's really where you wanna start, actually. Okay. So when you've sorted the purpose, you can then think about whether you're gonna try and monetize the show or not, or whether you're gonna create money at all from it. That can impact a number of things later on. And if you are gonna create a business around the show, we'll look at that a bit later on. But the purpose is really, really key. And I suggest that what you do is you think about, is it for money? Is it not for money? That's probably a fundamental question because if it's for money, then it's an investment, it's a business and goes down one particular route. If it's not for money and it's for other purposes, it goes down another route. So the next thing then is to think about the audience. And here I'd break that down as B2C or B2B. Okay. Or even I guess C2C, consumer to consumer, you could have here. So if it's a nonprofit podcast, you might consider that to be a C2C podcast, right? Consumer to consumer. So maybe if you're doing something for the community and other people in the community are the audience, or if you are selling something, you're a consultant and you wanna have a podcast, then obviously you're kind of looking at how you make it into something profitable. The next thing you want to look at— if I close that, make it a little less confusing— the next thing that you want to look at is going to be the schedule, okay? And You actually need to look at all of these things and the order you look at them in will depend in a way how you like to approach it. But schedule is, I think, one of the most important aspects to look at in a podcast. The reason for that is that to succeed at podcasting either, you know, on your own terms and also for the market, you need to have a a consistency of production. If you don't know how much time you can invest in this show, then it goes horribly, horribly wrong later. And if you don't know how often you need to produce the show, then that's when people get podcast fade. So if you schedule— by that I mean, how often do you want to produce a show and how often do you want to air the show? Okay, so some people do batch processing, for example, where they take a full day and process 8 shows. Some people do a live once a week. There isn't a right or wrong, but you want to assume that to do podcasting successfully, you're going to do this for at least 12 to 24, even 36 months. The next is format. Okay, so Basically, the 2 real sort of central format types are the interview, could be one-on-one or one with many guests, or are you gonna go a solo route or are you gonna do blended? Okay. And then the next thing you're gonna look at is the content. Are you gonna do audio? Or video or both. Technically, a podcast is audio. But now more and more people are doing video with the podcast. And because YouTube is the world's second largest search engine, having video is good because it can be found more easily. The problem with an audio-only podcast is that search in the podcast players is very, very difficult. Okay, so people find it very hard. So if you have video content, it's much easier. But also, now you can put video onto Spotify, for example, and Google and YouTube now has a podcast player.

As well.

Okay, just started in the last 2 months. So if you think about the format type now, so that's in pre-production. Once you've made those decisions, then you move into things like the naming of the show and the podcast cover design. Then you can think about who's gonna host the show. And if you're gonna go for the interview type, you think about the guesting. Okay. Now, under podcast design, you've got a couple of choices. One is to outsource that. The other is to do DIY. Podcast cover design is a whole art in itself. And each of these top line, excuse me, areas can lead into more and more detail. But today I didn't want to, you know, overwhelm you with, with that. But each of these decisions lead on to other decisions. Excuse me. But once you've got your concept and your format, you can decide on the design. So, for example, if it's a solo show, some people have got the picture of the guest on the front. For example, sorry, a picture of the host on the front. I, for my show, I have a very simple The Unnoticed Entrepreneur podcast cover. But then for each individual episode, I have myself and my guest on the show, on the, on the episode artwork. Okay. That takes more work to do. So I do that because I have a VA. But if you don't have any support, Then you wanna have one simple recurring art cover. Okay? And then if you've got guests coming on your show, there's a whole body of work on who you're going to get to be a guest on the show, and then how you get inquiries for them to become on your show. And again, you can use a matchmaker, as we said before. Um, or you can reach out to people. And this is a real area where as your show gets bigger, you want to think about automating it. So I have inquiries every day for people to come on my show from podcast booking agencies and other people. So I've automated it. So I have an inquiry page. And then they fill out a form, and then I approve the inquiry. And then if they, if they are approved by me because they fit the show remit, then I send them to a preparation page. Can you see how if you choose to have a guest show, there's a body of work there? If you have a solo show, you don't need to worry about that.

Okay.

Okay, so far, this is useful.

Yep.

Okay, so these are the decisions that you take in pre-production. If we look at the— there are more levels to those things, but this is— these are the top-line decisions. So if we look at production, um, and sorry, that one, I— if I close this, you don't see those. Well, I need to change the, the, the the mind map a little bit. But basically here under production, you need to look at the studio. Okay, and I say studio because what you need to think about is an environment, a place where you're going to do your recording. What some people do is they do it in their home, but the setup of your home means that you need to have some equipment. And I haven't tried to overwhelm you here, but here we need to think about microphones, cameras, and lighting. Okay, and again, if this is useful, then I can start to fill more of these out. But you need a good microphone, Plainly. You need a camera because even if you're only going to do audio, you still want to see your guest.

Okay.

And you need lighting because if you— if I turn off my lighting, you see the difference in my background. I have lights on here. You can see the difference. And the reason you want to do lighting is because sometimes you're shooting in the daytime, sometimes in the evening, sometimes but you want the consistency for all of your shows, so you need to control the lighting. Okay, and then under the production, you need to think about the sessions. So the reason beforehand I asked you about the format, like interview or guest, interview or solo, the duration, the content, is because your sessions will all be determined by those decisions you've taken in the pre-production. And then scheduling is another part of this because some people like to interview guests, at which point you need to schedule all those guests and then you can automate that process. So you can use Calendly, You can use Zoho Bookings, for example. The more guests you have, the more scheduling you need because otherwise you spend a lot of time just going back and forth on emails with people about when they can make it, when they can't make it. So what I then found is that I schedule people, I use a tool Zoho Bookings, but Calendly as well, then I set up SMS alerts to remind people. Okay. Because that reduces the number of no-shows. And then the sessions, you need to decide where you're gonna hold those sessions. So for example, some people host them on Zoom. It's low cost, but what happens is that the audio and video quality is not as good as it is using one of the professional platforms like Squadcast and Riverside. Okay, so those ones have costs to them, but what happens is that you get better quality recordings. Because the technology is that Zoom records by uploading your, your audio or video to Zoom. So however good your internet connection is going to impact the quality of your recording. But the professional-grade Riverside, StreamYard, they record locally. Okay, and so what happens is they record onto your computer, then they upload 2 files for you to then download the files. Okay, so to give you an idea, if you have it on Zoom, you might end up with a file of 150 megabytes, for example, right? But when I do recordings on Riverside, I'll have 800, 900 megabytes. Okay, so that's in the production process that you've got some things to think about there. In the post-production, this is where a lot of the time gets taken up, okay, because this is where the editing takes place. In my experience, having, uh, you know, produced now 700 episodes. If you get the pre-production right, your post-production will be much quicker. It's when people have not organized, for example, the, the kind of questions, the technology, the outcomes that they want, that their post-production is difficult, because what they're trying to do is they're trying to make something good out of bad materials. So it's a, you know, just as if you were building something at home, you know, if you got everything from the, from the DIY store pre-cut, and all the equipment and all the tools were the right ones, When you went to building that garden shed or making whatever it was at home, you'd have everything ready. So it's more like IKEA, I suppose, is sort of easy assembly. What's hard is if you're trying to fashion it out of short bits of timber with the wrong kind of screwdriver. So under editing, there are whole number of different considerations. The first one is the tools actually that you're gonna use. Actually, no, before that, the first one is if you're gonna do it yourself or not, are you gonna outsource it? Because there are lots of people that will edit for you anything from $15 to $50 to $200 per episode. The more organized you are in your pre-production and in your, um, recording sessions, the cheaper it will be and the quicker it will be in post-production. Okay, so I didn't put this down, but actually one option in post-production is to outsource. Okay. Lots and lots of people do that. My solution has been to get my pre-production process and format so tight that I don't need to do any post-production. Okay, so what I mean by that is that because I, I have my guests so well prepared, for the 20-minute interview, and my technology infrastructure is such that it's all going to produce the content quality that I need in terms of what we call the rushes, that actually the software that I use auto-assembles my show for me. Okay, that's been my solution. So I've basically engineered the workflow So I have to do almost no post-production. Most people edit their, their content. So what they do is they have to think about if you've got video, the video editing, if you've got text, the text editing, and if you've got audio, the audio editing. Now there are some tools out there that are very good for doing all one or more of those formats. And it's another, again, whole new topic. And what I can do is I can share with you on another, you know, another, in another time, another place, some of the tools that you can use. But there are some really, really good tools. But they all have a bit of a learning curve.

Okay.

So then when you come to editing, you're going to create some short-form edits, 30-second, 1-minute, and some longer-form pieces. Okay, if you do text, you can create social posts, you can create articles, and you can create books. Okay, so what I do is I, I take the video, and I make short and long form. Okay, short videos and long form. I then make articles, which I then make into books. And I also have audio. Okay, so you really want to leverage that time you spend with your guest or with yourself into being as many different formats as you can. Okay, post-production is a huge art, and there's a whole business in post-production, uh, in the TV world and the radio world. But it's very, very possible, and you can make post-production less painful, almost painless, if you prepare the production and the pre-production. Okay, so then under distribution We've got hosting, and hosting is in a, in a way the easiest part because you can choose a host and there are a number of them. There's Captivate out of the UK, for example. There's Buzzsprout, there's Libsyn, and they all offer the same thing, which is you basically put your content online. There's also Anchor FM, which is free, which is now being bought by Spotify. But you put your show on these platforms and they will then send your show to the, what we call the players. So all the directories, Google, Spotify, Apple, Stitcher, right? There's a whole bunch of players out there. Okay. And what these hosting companies will also do is they will have an RSS feed, stands for Really Simple Syndication. And it's the RSS that you use to send it to your website, for example. Okay. So you can embed that show somewhere else. So the players are kind of the simplest part, but they'll all do audio for you. Okay, they're not doing video, they're doing audio. And then here we've got the social channels like X, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, TikTok. Now you can do that manually, post them one at a time, or you can use some tools like Zoho Social, for example. There's another one called repurpose.io where you basically have your content come from one of those players and you can then repurpose it for the different social channels. Again, there are people that will do that for you and there are tools that you can use as well. And then under promotion, there's a whole new category of sites like GoodPods where they just promote podcasts through sort of social proof and social recommendation. And promotion, of course, then you can use things like, you know, Google Ads, you can, um, promote it on your own Facebook and so on. So in each of these stages, which is pre-production, you know, production, post-production, distribution, what I've tried to do, it just top line is to give you an idea of some of the top line decisions and workflow. And each one of them warrants, you know, more detail. But that, Craig, it's you and me now. So that's great. You sort of get a one-on-one.

Brilliant.

Any questions or any thoughts? Because I obviously each one of these has another bunch of layers, but I also didn't wanna make on the first outing this to be more complicated than it needs to be.

No, I've dabbled around with the majority of them. But I found with my last interview, the way that I structured the interview made it a lot easier to create the separate different episodes. So, I think it was 90 minutes, and we've got about 5 or 6 different short videos out of that on different topics, which will be different episodes, which works well. So that aligns with what you've said. But it's just getting that pre-production sorted to, to help resolve some of the sort of the lengthy issues that you can have in post-production, which Sometimes you'll get to a point where you just stop and think, I'll come back to that in a couple of days' time because it can be a little bit overwhelming sometimes.

I think that's absolutely right. And so with your show, Craig, are you doing interviews?

Yeah, I'll do, I'm doing interviews, but I'm gonna start doing some solo episodes as well. And Which will, because I thought about it, it's around mental health, men's mental health, and it's around sort of peeking behind the curtains at what makes men tick.

All right.

So the first couple of episodes have been, you know, I said it's guys who may be struggling or vulnerable who will share their stories or guys who are in a really good place who will share their stories as well. So I thought the proper episode will be me actually showing you a bit of vulnerability. around a few things that have happened recently. And, uh, so probably this weekend will be the weekend that I record that. But I'm thinking of actually just jumping straight into the deep end and doing it as a live session and just throwing everything out there, which will be quite interesting to see how it goes.

So what tool are you using for editing?

So I, I was, I fiddled around with Descript for a little bit, but I didn't really know how to use that.

Okay.

I did purchase some software called NCH Software and it does, it's different applications. So there's video, there's audio, But I purchased the video part and I can download and record audio on that.

Okay. Is that text to, is that text to audio and video editing as well?

I think it can be, but I haven't utilized it. I've just used the audio and video that I can separate the audio out to put as into different bits and pieces. Yeah, it's hard when you're not sure You're sort of, you know, having a go and figuring things out as you go along. Yes.

No, for sure. And then are there any things that I've covered in here that are new to you or that you would, you'd like me to try and help with or think about?

I think the, so I suppose from a person who's starting a new podcast and Is sort of doing it part-time. The scheduling part is, is a bit of, you know, is a challenge to get people to, let's say they wanna do it, you know, you, you ask when is a good time. I don't have the number of people that you'll inquiries to who want to come onto the show because social proof is minimal to start with. So it's probably just a matter of when you say you've got your pre-production pretty much tied down, could you just cover a little bit more depth in what that looks like?

Yeah. So I think, you know, pre-production is about laying out what the show is going to stand for. And what I haven't put here, but I could have done and should have done, is talk about, for example, the, um, the website and so on for the show.

Yes.

Because under pre-production, I built out a website. Maybe what I do is if I share with you What I've built. I'm not sure whether you've done this, Craig, or not, but, you know, when you talk about pre-production, part of that here is about being upfront, you know, about what this— what the the show is gonna do, who it's for and why. Do you currently have a website, for example, for your—

No, I don't. I have bought the, purchased the domain.

Right.

So that's, but again, that's the other thing. It's like, do I outsource it or do I try and fudge it? To get the webpage.

Well, this, so this is a company called podcast.io, podcastpage.io. I think I have a link on it I can send to you here. Okay. Yeah, podcast.io. If you go to my unnoticed.cc under apps, I put that here for you. Okay. It's a really good podcast page builder. I think I pay £8 a month. I think it is, it's not free, but to be honest, it's fabulous. It's really drag and drop.

Yeah, that looks great.

Yeah, it's really good. And he's got things like, you know, you can take a feed for the show. So I'm just, I don't wanna, so I think in that pre-production, when you know what you want the show to do and stand for, to get people to take part, you have to demonstrate that that's what it's for. Because once you've got that in your own mind, that's great.

Yeah.

I will tell you, I had to go and ask people to be on the show at the beginning.

Yeah.

Okay. It doesn't happen overnight, right? I mean, in that sense. And, um, but can you see what, what I did was I built out, um, a profile of the show. And when I started this, by the way, I didn't have a guest page because I didn't have any guests yet.

Yeah.

So I didn't have the, uh, participants page even though in the Podcast Pages platform. He has that. It's really good. So if you don't already have a website, Craig, I would really encourage you to do that because also what it does, it helps, you know, helps me, reminds me of what I'm doing. I mean, I've been doing this a couple of years now, right? So, but, so what happened in pre-production is that, for example, I have I have an application page which I've built out. And actually this now is from Zoho Forms, but in Podcast Pages, he has a guest application form, which is really good. And in fact, I have that now as a hidden page because I want the automation, but because I want them in my CRM, but actually his website builder has that already. If I could remember the page, I guess, yes, here you go. I now have this as a hidden page. But can you see he has this as a Already.

That makes it a lot easier, doesn't it?

Yeah. So what happens is you send this to somebody. Okay. And what happens, Craig, is in your pre-production because you know your purpose and I'll share that with you in a minute. But can you see then I've embedded here a calendar booking?

Okay.

Yeah. So I'm using Zoho Bookings, but you can use Calendly. So this is really a stage that you want to automate. Because A, it takes time, but B, also just makes you look more professional.

Yeah, it does.

Yeah. And then the other thing that I have, so I have a workflow behind here, but if you're starting, don't worry about that at this stage. It's just, I get 5 or 6, 7 a week applications. So, you know, got to a stage where it was taking more, more time to manage people than I, than I wanted to. Also, I wanted to get them into my newsletter and so on, but that's not really a concern for you at the beginning, right? So then what I have created here is a guest prep page. Okay, so here, who we're talking to what we're talking about, the equipment that you're gonna need, my setup. Okay. The studio details. Okay. So by doing this, I'm basically solving that problem. Remember under the show concept?

Yeah.

I've written it down. And what that means is that guests that I invite, They, they get sent that page. And when they come to me on the show, they've already been prepared. That's what I mean about the, the pre-production.

Yeah.

Because you can see how much time that saves you because, A, you, you get rid of people that aren't correct. But also those that come, they, they kind of already know what they're going to talk about. Yeah. So it saves that um and ah. And what happens then is by doing that, the interview is much more focused. So you don't have to do so much post-production.

Yeah, that makes sense. For some inquiries, I'm just back and forth with people over either email or WhatsApp or, you know, Messenger to date, time, topic. What's their availability? But that makes so much more sense.

Yeah. So you don't wanna do, frankly, you don't wanna do any of that because it's really not adding any value to you. Okay. And then I also have here about the show. Okay. So I mean, you could use my website and podcast pages. Tom's great and he's super, super quick at answering questions. I'm a huge fan. So then I put about the show. So you could put about you, you know, I take this from Buzzsprout.

Okay.

Because I was writing to people, they're going, can you tell me about the show? Right? You're going, anything that you do 2 or 3 times in a row.

Yeah.

Can be all, can be a format and an automation.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Okay.

So, this is right, it saves time.

If I show you, this is podcastpage.io. So you can get started for free. Look. Okay. And then know, if I just show you here, you can log in and you can see the different pages. Can you see?

Yeah.

And it's really, so that's what I mean about the pre-production. You get the architecture. What's your show called, Craig?

Quintessentially You.

Oh, okay. Nice, right? So, You could see here if you wanna edit this, can you see how you can add in video? That's my next job actually is to put video of me welcoming people to the show. But, you know, can you see how much great content you could put in here?

Yeah, definitely.

So with his tools, you'll be able to, with this platform rather, You could then, for example, you could create a guest application page and he's got templates here. He's done it honestly, he's done a great job. Can you see here? You can, for example, put here a widget intake form. Yep. So if you put that in, it'll ask, you know, it'll get people to, um, tell you those things, you know, about your— so if I do, I don't want to— like, you can see you can add anything in here, right? You can, you can add an intake form in here, for example.

Because there's been a lot of thought put into creating the whole format, all of you, hasn't there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, that's the wrong one. So, so that's, I think what you wanna think about next, if you've got the quintessentially you, Then you can then start to, you know, share all the different things that you've got. Yeah. Yeah. And then what I do, for example, is I put, you know, and as you get more guests, you can start to post your guests on it.

Oh yeah, that's cool.

It's very nice, right?

Yeah, very nice.

And you see, you can imagine what that does. That helps new guests.

Yeah.

Because in a new show, the big issue is why come on your show?

Yeah.

Okay. So, you know, then you can start. So these are some people that actually we've approved. They haven't come on the show yet. So it shows them, then I need to— but so you can see here, then you can link the show episode and related posts. So we have the blog post as well. Okay. So if you, if you wanted to think about that, maybe Craig, in terms of pre-production, there's a little bit of a mess, but then it also helps you feel like, wow, I've got something.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And it looks professional and it's easy to look, it's easy to read, it's easy to navigate.

Yeah. So is that, so then you could all those things about, you know, what your format is, your purpose, who you're interviewing, you kind of, you're kind of literally encoding them into a website.

Yeah, definitely. Now that makes complete sense.

Okay. And who are you hosting with?

I've used Spreaker this time.

Okay. I don't know. Are they good?

Yeah, but I'm quite surprised actually. It was just only sort of one click to get the episodes loaded up to sort of Apple, Google, Spotify. The only challenge I found is that for YouTube, and I probably need to go on and have a look at the settings, it will take whatever length video is that you're sending across, or whether it's audio or video, and it will split into 15-minute segments. So if it's 25-minute audio or video, it will split into 15 minutes and 5 minutes.

Oh, yeah, I see. Yeah, it's, and it's sort of, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So for iHeart, yeah, they've also bought Captivate. I mean, it's also good. One thing I will share with you, I use one called Buzzsprout, and then I'm mindful of the time, but I use one called Buzzsprout. And I'm gonna share with you why I use Buzzsprout.

Okay.

Because remember I mentioned about the outsourcing and the post-production?

Yep.

Okay. So the cool thing, there's a very cool thing, a new thing in Buzzsprout because post-production, writing show notes and so on takes time, right? They have this new thing here. called Co-Host AI. You pay for it. I pay $20 a month. That's 15 quid a month, right? This is, this is the really cool thing, Craig. When I upload a show, guess what it does? It creates all this content for me automatically. This is a game changer.

Yeah.

A game changer, right? So I also use the Magic Mastering because it auto-levels up my content. Okay, right. So it's very nice. But so if I look at, um, for example, let's take here what you can do. This content has been written by Cohost AI. Can you see they offer me different titles and they give me— so I could just tweet from here. Wow, mate, that's crazy. This is quite new. They just launched this 3 months ago, um, but it's a game changer in my view because what you don't want to be doing is spending your time talking about writing this stuff. So, and then what they do is, you see, this is already done, but it's also creating a blog post for me. I was paying someone $25 an article, but look, it's created a blog post. So you can literally cut and paste that and put that into your podcast pages website.

Yeah, definitely.

That's what I'm doing, right? And it gives me a transcript as well. Okay, so, um, then you can change, you know, it gives you— otherwise you pay money for that as well. Okay, it gives you a transcript, and you want the transcript that makes your show discoverable.

Yes.

Right. And also the other thing that I like about this is I've got the ability to do monetization. So I can add brand. So I have a number of people that I've signed up to their affiliate program.

Okay. Wow.

Okay. And this then shows when people see the episode on their player.

Okay.

So that's why I remember I said at the very beginning, your purpose. If it's, you know, a hobby, something like you want anything that's free, right? Spreaker, I guess, is free. Is it?

Yeah, it's got a pricing plan, but you can upgrade to, but at the moment it's free.

Yeah. So but you get what you pay for. They make money by putting ads in your content for you.

Yeah.

Right. That's not what I, I, I wanna run this as a business, right? So I've got a subscriber, then I've got here, can you see these affiliates? So I sign up for affiliates. There's some platforms, a lot of these people have been on my show, by the way.

Okay.

So they come on my show and they've got an affiliate program. So I sign up for that. So I can make money if people buy these. So can you, can you see how the decision that you take about at the beginning impacts the decision?

Yeah.

I decided to invest, I think, £35 a month. I think I invest Um, in it. Um, for me, this is one of the best. Uh, there's also Captivate, also very good, but I, I particularly like where these guys are going with. And the co— honestly, for you, Craig, Co-Host AI is a game changer, right? Because you, you don't have the time to— I don't have the time to write all that stuff, right?

No, that's just amazing.

It started about, they launched it about 2 months ago and I signed up straight away just because, look.

Yeah. Yeah. The amount of time that you'd spend trying to put that together in a way that makes sense. That's cool.

It's very cool, right? Again, I'm, Full disclosure, I'm a, I think I'm an affiliate, but just because it's really damn good. Yeah, I'm an affiliate there. So it's just really good, you know.

I'll jump through your affiliate link because I'm quite happy to change where I am, especially if it's gonna give me that kind, that level of support and that information coming back through.

And it, you know, it does all these things as well, right? So, and there's your RSS feed. Yeah, so these guys have also a very good podcast. So Craig, I— if you were to use— you don't even need to use the podcast pages necessarily because you can— these guys will have a player for you, and you could even just, you know, you— they'll give you a website. Here you go, look. So you could even just use this to start with if you want to, but that doesn't have your purpose, your booking. So this is kind of like hobby level. That's why it's all about your intent. If you intend to do something proper, my personal view is there is no point doing 3 or 4 podcasts on the cheap. You either do it or you don't do it. Yeah. It's my personal view in the same way with anything, it's not worth doing otherwise.

Yeah, exactly. No, that's a long-term plan is to do it and do it well.

And can you see, you know, I got 600 episodes. Yeah. So does that, is that helping mindful of again the time because it's been nearly an hour. But Craig, is that giving you sort of a bit more It's been brilliant.

Yeah.

Okay. Thank you.

I appreciate that. Uh, there's loads to that. That's given me a better insight into what I'm wanting to do as opposed to obviously seeing it from your point of view, uh, what you've done as opposed to just thinking that's what I wanna do, but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm not sure what I am looking at, but that's given me a really good framework to work with.

Okay, great. Well, look, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna stop recording now and