What can this Mexican-German millennial tell you to do with 20 minutes of passion on a podcast?

Welcome, or should I say hola, to Sabrina Skolkowski. Hola.

Hi, everyone.

Now, if you're wondering why I'm saying hola to someone who has a German-Polish sounding name, it's because Sabrina is actually in Mexico joining us today.

Yeah, so I'm actually half Mexican, half German, but last name, like you just said, is originally Polish. So it's a very interesting background story.

On your LinkedIn, it says that actually you live in Paris as a podcast coach and speaker. So you're here today to share with us some of the tools and the tips about podcasting because you actually run a course, don't you, on podcasting? So tell us, how do people look at getting a podcast going?

Yeah, I definitely do. So it's actually a funny story. I only started being a podcast coach because people kept asking me for free advice when I was doing my own podcast. And I decided, you know what, I might just make a business out of it. And then I think the fact that I do have a podcast actually gives me more credibility because I walk the talk. You know, it's not just like, oh, do this and then I don't do it. What I've seen a lot of people and all of my past clients that I've worked with have as struggles when they first start is first of all, a lack of confidence because as podcasting is fairly new, I would say in like mainstream culture, even though it's been around for like over 10 years, I wanna say it's become in the past 2, 3 years very mainstream. A lot of people are starting podcasts. And I think people feel, oh my God, but I'm no one. Like, why would I start a podcast, right? Like, I'm no different than the guy next to me or the girl next to me. I don't have this fantastic business idea. I'm not an influencer. Who would listen to my podcast? And then the second thing is, but there are so many podcasts out there. Why would anyone listen to mine? And when people say that, I actually have this surprising fact where everyone's just shocked. So there are about 1.5 million podcasts out there. Which sounds very intimidating. But if you compare it to blogs, there are 500 million blogs out there. And yet, people every day are still launching blogs. But that's not even the most surprising part about this fact. So if you're ready, only half of those podcasts are actually active, which blows my mind. Literally, it means half of the podcasts that are out there stop producing content at about like 10 episodes, 5 episodes. They just get bored and they're like, peace out, I'm not going to record anything. So really, you don't have that much competition because eventually people don't start podcasts for the right reasons. And so they get bored of it and then less competition, right?

Sabrina, I think it's a really good point that it's very few. And what I've also noticed is that often it's the big companies that start with the most investment and actually tail off the most quickly. And the podcast hosts that are most successful are often the, the people that have a passion for it, that keep it going, not the ones that decide it's part of a corporate strategy. So why do you think that is? Why do you think that big companies have not been on the whole that successful?

So it's very interesting that you say that and that you mentioned passion specifically, because that's one of the things that I'm very passionate about as well. So whenever someone comes to me, I always ask them, you know, what topic can you talk about for 20 minutes without getting bored? Write those down. And then we'll, you know, like, I'll help you decide which one's best, because people can tell if you're passionate about things, people can tell if you actually care about what you're talking. So the best example is, for example, if you're, if you're a marketing person, right? If you work in marketing or are a marketing agency owner, whatever it is, you would think you should start a podcast about marketing, right? Because that's what you do. So that's what you're good at. But maybe that's not necessarily your passion. Maybe you're passionate about sports. Instead of talking about podcasts about sports, you talk about marketing where you're just like, well, that's my job. So you put less passion into it, you put less drive, you put less effort, and then at some you're like, well, why isn't this working? Well, the answer is because people can know that you don't have a passion. Now, there are ways, for example, to get around this. So let's say again, your passion is sports, but you work as a marketing person. So what you could do is you can actually merge both and maybe interview people that work in sports or talk about sports marketing or stuff like that. So that way you can merge both things, still use it to get ahead in business, but still talk about things that you're passionate about. And then that way, Doesn't matter if you feel like if it's a chore talking about marketing, the passion of sports comes out. So this is something that I really urge people to do. Don't start a podcast just because, oh, this is what I'm good at, because you'll get bored. And I think that's what happens to companies, right? They think, oh, we have to talk about the super corporatey thing. We have to talk about how it is that we run our business. Whereas, you know, they could interview people in their own companies. They could let them show passion about their job. They could let them, you know, talk about their products, talk about everything. Where they can just humanize their CEO, right? Like, if an agency or a company does everything for the CEO, and the CEO only has to sit down, let's say an hour every week, 40 minutes, whatever it is you want to do, and they get to interview people, people get to know who they are, then obviously that podcast is going to be more successful than just like a random corporate podcast.

I think you've hit on a really good point there about podcasts essentially are a human medium, right? It's a very intimate medium. listening to somebody because your imagination gets to portray what that person looks like and to get involved in the train of thought. So that's a great piece of advice. Do something that you're passionate about. Now, what about this idea then of quantity? Because I think that another challenge that people have is how much content to create, because it can become quite a burden, can't it, to tie yourself to a particular production schedule? What do you advise, Sabrina, to people that are thinking about it but go, I don't have the time?

Yeah, well, it really depends on what you wanna create because I have seen successful podcasts that literally talk 5 minutes every day. Or I've also seen podcasts, you know, there's Joe Rogan whose podcasts are 3 hours. Like, I don't know who has the time to listen to 3 hours, but apparently a lot of people do. But, you know, there's a wide range in between. And also there's many podcasts that are successful doing daily shows as there are podcasts that do once a month or once every 15 days. Or once every week. So it really just depends on coming up with a schedule that is manageable for you and also something that you can upkeep. So an example for myself is I started with one episode a week last year, and I continued that unless I had like a specific event, like maybe it was Social Media Week, maybe it was Mental Health Week, and so I did 2 that week. And then randomly it exploded for me. I had like 100 guests basically. And I was like, you know what, I'm not going to be able to launch podcasts once a week if I want to keep up with like having guests, right? Because at the end, it's going to be December and I'm still going to be uploading the podcasts that I recorded in January. So at this point, I was like, okay, what is it that you want, Sabrina? And that's like a really good question you can ask yourself once you've been doing it for a while is, okay, do I have the bandwidth? Do I have the energy to actually release more than one episode? Do I have the capacity to hire a team member, for example, or outsource production or outsource guest booking or whatever it is? If the answer is yes to both, or if the answer is, you know what, I can do it by myself, then you can bump it up. And now I'm doing 2 episodes a week, sometimes even 3. So it really just depends on the goals that you have for your podcast, the speed that you want to grow at, and just what you want to do with it. But at the same time, I always advise people, like you said, you know, don't start it just because you want to grow your business, but start it because you actually want to connect people. You want to, you know, interview other people, hear their stories, give advice. Like, there always has to be a deeper why than just, oh, I want to grow my podcast, because then again, you get bored.

Well, and you've raised an interesting thing there about format, that you're doing interviews. I have done a lot where it's me explaining the Speak PR program that we've developed, which is a 5-stage methodology for companies to use technology to grow their brand. Is there a view that it should be interviews or a single speaker or multiple? Or can you mix that up and make it interesting? Or sounds like there's no hard and fast formula really.

Yeah, there isn't. That's the cool thing about podcasting. And especially with, you know, metrics and all of those things, no one really knows how many actual listeners you have. I was reading this this super interesting article the other day that says all of that data, you can actually fake it, you know, because some Spotify or social media or whatever it is that you use to promote your podcast, they record one view as one person logging in or actually seeing it. So there's like ways to tweak it that I was reading, which is really unethical. But the point being, metrics and everything else about podcasting is not really regulated and it's not really well established. So it's kind of like a double It's good for people because it allows it to be less of a pressure thing, whereas compared to Instagram, you're like, oh my God, people can see how many likes I have, people can see how many followers I have. Podcasting, you really can't, so people just trust you. So that's the good side. But basically, in format levels, again, it really depends on you and kind of like your personality. So I know a lot of people don't like talking to themselves, so they need a co-host so that they can vibe off the energy. There are a lot of people that just talk about themselves and do only solo episodes about their lives. There's people that only do interviews. For me, I do a mix. And funnily enough, it's good that you mentioned that because this season, I actually got people saying, we want to hear more from you. And it kind of like raised this question of, okay, Sabrina, why are you holding back? Like, why are you focusing more on people? Because I thought, you know, again, who am I to tell all these stories? Like, I'm sure people must be tired about my dating problems or like my life as a nomad, whatever it is. Well, in turn, people just really want to hear about you as much as they wanna hear about your guests. So it's really about the level of comfort you have and the amount of things you wanna talk about, right?

Now you raise an interesting point there about having feedback from your listeners. How do you do that, Sabrina? Because only on Apple iTunes can people leave a review. But apart from that, you could be publishing and not really have any feedback.

I rely heavily on Instagram and other platforms. So I constantly post, you know, I have 2 accounts on Instagram, a business one And my podcast one. And on the podcast one, I'm constantly doing stories. I have live interviews as well. I do every Thursday. I do all of these things. And I try to poll people a lot. So I try to ask people like, what do you want to hear? Are you liking this? Or I just urge people on my episodes and be like, if you have any questions, if you have any comments, feel free to message me on Instagram. I always respond. And so far, some listeners that I've had, even if they're friends or acquaintances, They text me and they're like, oh, I really love this episode, or like, I would really love to hear more about this, or I would love to hear more about that. So I guess it's more about letting them know that you're open to having communication and also using other platforms to get feedback.

Yeah, that's really useful insight there is about having other platforms to get the feedback. What about the cost, Sabrina? Because, you know, during lockdown, people have got time. If I started the Speak PR podcast in, in May of last year, lockdown came upon us. And there are many people with podcasts who have done the same. What about the amount of time that it's taking you to produce, for example, a 20-minute show? How much time should someone allocate to creating a 20-minute show?

Yeah, so 20 minutes is actually very easy because there's this rule that says for every minute that you do, that the podcast has, so like let's say 20 minutes, for every 20 minutes you have to allocate at double to produce, only because you have to account time where you listen and you edit at the same time, you make sure, and then you listen again and all of those things. So at least double the amount, which gives you, let's say, 40 minutes to an hour minimum every week for editing. And then let's say you need another hour to come up with a topic, to really figure out, okay, is this what I'm going to talk about? Would my listeners like it? You know, plan it and do all of those things. So that's 2 hours.

Okay.

And then maybe you spend 30 to 40 minutes a week promoting, right? Between Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever it is that you will use. You don't have to be on all. I would just say choose 2 and then stick to those. But you can allocate 30 to 40 minutes, which puts you at almost 3 hours. And then the rest is just doing other things, right? Like maybe looking for guests. You take an hour a week where you talk to people, you kind of like see if they're a good fit. You schedule that, you check your schedule, you do all of those things. So really the Bare minimum you need to start a 20-minute podcast would be 4 to 5 hours. That's a week, like not even a day, which means you can allocate 30, 40 minutes to an hour every single day. And then you're done. Like you don't even have to put that much effort into it in terms of time.

Now, you've made that sound like quite a large amount of time for most people that are working. That's time that's hard to find. So next question, Sabrina, most people are trying to earn a living at the same time. Obviously, some people have different circumstances. How can people monetize the content? Or is it really just a passion project?

No, and I'm glad you asked that question because it's one of my favorites. So again, there's a lot of misconceptions with podcasting. Even myself, I used to think, oh, the only way I can make money through podcasting is by getting sponsorships, by placing ads, and by getting picked up by a network. And while these are 3 very good options, they're actually the hardest ones because getting a network to pick you up means you have to have certain downloads. They have to see something in you. And it's very subjective. Sometimes it's even about contacts. So that one, let's say, would be the main goal, but not the easiest one to achieve. So I really just want to let people know, if you're counting on that, go back to the drawing board and think about another idea. Now, the second one, which means sponsorships. There are many ways you can go about this. And again, there's a misconception that you need 10,000 downloads to get sponsorships. Well, the truth is you kind of just need to have your things together. You have to have like maybe a media kit talking about who your ideal audience is, some results you've had, if you've been on the charts, what type of people listen to you. And then you have to go out and look for those. So you contact brands and you tell them, listen, I love your product. I would love to talk about it. You can even start for free. You can say, I would love to talk about it. Send me a product that I can review. And then that way you get in good standing with them. Other brands see that you've actually done sponsorships before, and then you can start charging. The amount really is up to you. You can start, I think, with $150 per episode, and then that way you kind of like get traction. Another way which is not talked about enough is if you have a business, if you're a coach, if you're a service provider, if you sell a product, you can monetize through your podcast by including it into your podcast. So like, let's say again you're in marketing and then you're talking— doesn't matter what podcast topic you're talking about— you can say, you know, I'm going to do a about marketing. And then you're going to talk about the one thing you've learned in your 10 years of marketing or 5 years of marketing or whatever it is. And then within that episode, you're giving free value about what you do. And you can also include and say, if you want more information, you know, you can hire me or I have this course, I have this project, I have this service that will help you. Look in my description for the link. And then that way people can actually go see what you do, find you, and purchase stuff from you. So that's like a great way to monetize.

Right.

And something that is also, you know, PR currency, right? Which is very on brand with your topic. So PR currency is basically, you don't know who's going to listen to your podcast and what opportunities it's going to bring. So maybe it brings you speaking opportunities, like maybe you do a summit or an online event, or you teach a masterclass in someone's course or something like that. And then that kind of has like this ripple effect where another person there finds you, maybe you go on another speaking, or maybe they hire you, or They have a cousin, a loved one, a friend that needs that service. They tell them about it and then they hire you. So really it's both monetization, you make money from it, you sell things, and then you also get PR currency, which is like word of mouth.

And what about the kit one needs, Sabrina? Because there's an investment at the beginning too, isn't there? How expensive is it all?

Yeah, so that's also a very interesting question because you can start with as little as $0. And this is very controversial because, you know, there's Anchor, which is a free hosting platform. I personally don't like it because I like more metrics, but to begin with, it's very user-friendly. It's literally free. It's bought by Spotify, so you know it's quality. You can just use that. You can start with your headphones. You know, you can start with like these headphones. I'm connected with a mic right now. You can't really see. I'm just gonna randomly show it. Like, yeah, so I'm connected to a microphone, but you can really just start with your headphones from your phone, and you can use those to record because you know, it's a lie that high-end microphones will do everything for you because in the end you still have to edit. So while those high-end microphones help you, really it's your skills as an editor that can produce a high-quality podcast with just headphones. So you can start with $0. Then the next tier, I would say you can start with about $300 maybe. That includes, like you mentioned, like $100 or $200 a year for hosting and then $100 for a microphone, which you can get, you know, there's like a Samson Q4U or something like that. That's your basic long microphone. You can connect it to your computer and you're done. And then you can go as high as you want from there because there are podcast microphones that are like $300, $400, $500, $1,000, whatever it is. It just depends again what your goals are. So So if you have the money to spend and you're like, I want to spend this, I want to get my return of investment, go big. Like, buy all the things, buy, you know, sound protection for your room, buy everything. Yeah. But if not, really just with $0, you can start.

And I think especially if you have a Mac, you can use GarageBand, or I've been using Hindenburg and recently Descript software. Can you recommend a software for editing?

Yeah, there's Audacity. I haven't used it, but all my clients use it because I recommend they start with a free one. And then if they like editing, editing, they can actually invest. If they don't like editing, then they can outsource rather than pay a program. I personally use Adobe Audition because I'm used to all of the Adobe systems. You know, I was a magazine editor, I used InDesign, graphic design, I use Photoshop, and so I'm pretty well— like, I'm pretty comfortable with those. And so I use Adobe Audition, which is really user-friendly. Like, you don't have to be scared about it. And if you're a student, you know, you can buy the student program, which is, I believe, $20 a month, $19 a So very affordable.

Now, if people want to get guidance from you, Sabrina, how do they find you?

So I recently revamped my website, so you can find me at www.sabrinasc.com. All my info is there, all my programs.

Okay, Sabrina, thank you so much for joining me all the way from Mexico.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you. You've been listening to Sabrina Skolkowski all the way over in Mexico. And we've been talking about podcasting today. So thank you for listening and we wish you the best of health, a sustainable business, if not a profitable one. And that if you're thinking about podcasting, make it your own and have fun with it. I know that I have been, and so has Sabrina. Thank you so much for listening.