Why Comcast offered this fmcg start up a free 30-minute advert; Karen Frame, CEO of Makeena

The Unnoticed Entrepreneur podcast is sponsored by Prowly, the all-in-one tool for PR experts.

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Today we're going to go to a place where it's -14 degrees, not England. We're going to Boulder, Colorado to talk to Karen Frame, who's the founder and CEO of a company called Makina. Welcome to the show, Karen.

Well, thank you for having me on. I'm delighted.

Karen, you're on the show because I noticed that you have been highlighted in books, magazines. You've been an adjunct professor over at the Colorado University there, and you've been building Makina, which is a hub. You're going to tell us about natural products, but we're going to talk about how you've been building, for example, a game show for your product, how you've been using PR, how you've been using books. So we've got a lot to pack in. So thank you for joining me and sharing with my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs. First of all, tell us about Makina. What is Makina? And also, what's the name stand for?

So Makina is a discovery hub that helps these better for you, better for the planet brands connect with consumers no matter where the consumers shop, whether online or at a store. So it could be Amazon, Thrive Market, The brand's own website, or it could be a Kroger store or a Piggly Wiggly store. We really don't care. We just want the consumer to buy better. And then what we do is collect this first-party data and provide it to brands so they understand who the consumer is, where they're shopping, and what's in their basket so that they can become a little bit more efficient and effective with their marketing dollar. So that's Makina. And then the other Makina really means happiness in Swahili, abundance in Hawaiian, and machine in Arabic. So we're a happy abundant machine.

Wow. Okay. There's a lot in there. And I love the way you've managed to get Makina to do so much work. So Makina, is it a loyalty program? Just explain, is it a loyalty program that someone signs up for and you encounter brands that have gone through your 3-part filter, your 3 goodness filter?

Yeah. So we're a loyalty program for every brand that comes on Makina. We really want that consumer to engage and learn about the brand, what it's doing, how they're making the world a better place, and then obviously about their different products. And the more that a consumer— and by the way, it's free for the consumer. It's available on iOS or Android. But the more the consumer engages with the brand, the more they earn. It could be cash. Free product, it could be swag. And so it's more, we're building a community, we're building a community of brands, we're building a community of consumers. And then with that comes like even more. It's just people that really truly care about living healthier lives on a cleaner planet.

Can you give us maybe one or two brands that are inside the store for those people that are not familiar with it? And it's spelled Makina, M-A-K-E-E-N-A. Of course, I'll put that in the show notes, but can you give us one or two brands, Karen, that are on the platform?

Yeah. So one incredible brand is Ocean's Halo. It was founded by 4 dads. It's a seaweed company and there really hadn't been anything like that out there before. They're growing, they've raised a bunch of money and they have seaweed snacks and they have bras and they're actually doing something really cool right now. They have these little pods. That you can put in a Keurig, and now you can have soup through the Keurig. So we have brands on our platform that are super duper innovative. We have another brand like Pipcorn; they use heirloom organic non-GMO corn kernels, and they're little. They were on Shark Tank, so that was kind of cool. And Barbara Corcoran invested in them. So we have this really interesting variety of. Food, beverage, household goods, supplements, beauty, just like kind of all over the place that you would typically consider to be in the natural products industry. And all of them have at least 3 attributes. It could be that they're organic, or it could be that they're fair trade, or it could be that they are using sustainable farming practices, but they're all focused on this better. And while we curate these brands, the interesting thing is we're kind of leaving it up to the consumer as to what is truly better for them, because there may be a brand on there that does have sugar in it, right? But it's organic. So we're trying not to force this on somebody, but we want them to be able to make educated choices about what they're putting in and on their bodies.

Karen, that's wonderful. So it's almost like it used to be when I lived in Boulder, Colorado, where you are, we were discussing earlier on, amazingly enough, I lived just 3 blocks away from where you are now, but there used to be like Whole Foods stores and you'd go and everything in there could be trusted by the person who walked in the store to have had some pre-selection. Would that be kind of like the offline equivalent?

Yeah, exactly. So we use kind of a Natural Grocers as our standard. So Natural Grocers has very strict guidelines as to what they put on their shelves. And again, it can be anything and everything, but if you could get into a Whole Foods Market or a Natural Grocers, or even the healthier aisles at a Kroger, that brand could get onto Makina. The other thing is, and we're really, really make sure that our brands can be bought. So they have to be able to be distributed throughout the United States. So while they may not be in a thousand-serve 5,000 stores, at least you can buy them online as well, because we want to give the consumer a choice, if that makes sense.

It does, Karen, it does. Now, this show's about how you get a business noticed. So I think, love the concept and a trusted place to buy products that are good for me and my family, for the planet. You've got in that hub sort of 2 marketing challenges, haven't you? First of all, how do you get those brands to come on to Makina? Because it's another channel for them, isn't it, to be managed and another maybe shopfront to deal with. So first of all, let's talk about that. And then we'll talk about how you get consumers to come to Makina, which is the other half of the success equation, isn't it? So first of all, Karen, how do you get the brands to come?

So lots of different ways. So word of mouth. I have been in the industry for a really long time. I started a very similar company back in 1994. It was an interactive touchscreen kiosk company. that was called Natural Interactions. And we had a partnership with Wild Oats Markets, which is now Whole Foods and Amazon, of course. But, you know, I started to just get known in the industry itself as one of the early innovators, I guess, is the way you could say it. So we sponsor different groups like Naturally Boulder and Colorado Food Works. We've launched a game show where it basically focuses on getting the brand word out there. So every episode is about a brand. We're, oh my gosh, we're publishing a weekly newsletter called Roots to Results on LinkedIn. We've just gotten a ton of people signing up because they're starting to see this weekly newsletter with tips about how to market your CPG in an effective and efficient way. Gosh, I have been on podcasts. I go to trade shows. I've been on TV talking about our brands. So there's a lot going on to get the brands on board. They have to know and trust the founder, and they have to be part of this community. And so we're getting there, which is great. They're learning about us through LinkedIn. They're learning about us through these different sponsorships that we do. They're learning about us through me, my team, and the newsletter.

Okay, yeah, really interesting that you're using LinkedIn. You haven't mentioned trade shows though, Karen, which traditionally Or notwithstanding COVID, I used to work in the food industry. We used to go to a big trade show called the IFE, International Food Expo. Are expositions no longer necessary, do you think?

Oh no, I briefly mentioned trade shows, I think. So we do go to trade shows. I went to Plant-Based World Expo recently. I went to Expo West, Natural Products Expo West, that's sponsored by New Hope. I went to East. I mean, we've had booths. I've walked the shows. Met people at events at those shows. When I go, investors a lot of times hold get-togethers, so I meet a ton of brands there. But yeah, exactly. Trade shows are a big part of it too.

So it really is a well-rounded approach. You talked then about your direct contact, but also you're doing things like LinkedIn. As a founder, and you've been a serial entrepreneur, at what stage are you as the founder less important to the brand and the brand starts to carry itself? Because to some degree, as we're seeing with Elon Musk at the moment, the founder can be both an asset and a liability to a brand. At what stage do you think the brand can fly without the CEO?

That's a really good question. So as a founder, I'm always looking for really great people to join Makena on its vision and mission. And the right person in the right seat at the right time. And hopefully they just basically glow Makina is probably the better way to say it. And so it doesn't matter if it's me or somebody else, but as the founder of the company, I think that obviously brands need to know and trust me. And then they need to know and trust my team. And once that happens, once, I don't know, we have about 14 people on our team right now, but once we hit that chasm and you and I talked about that a little bit earlier.

Yeah. Jeffrey Moore crossing the chasm, right? Yeah.

Right. I mean, I'm going to become hopefully less important, but maybe not because to a certain extent, not to our customers, but to the brand itself. I mean, we, You still, as a founder, have to have the vision and the mission in place and make sure you have great people surrounding you and grow with that in mind. And just like you said, you could be helpful to your company or to your brand or not.

Yeah, no, exactly. So there's an interesting point around when a brand gets critical mass for the founder to no longer be the daily trumpeter for it. But I wanted to move on to the next audience, which is the people that come to Makina to find products, because as you're a hub, got all the products, there's no consumers on there, then the brands eventually will tire of that, right? The servicing of that platform. Consumers come, if there are not enough brands, then they won't find enough value from participating. So how, Karen, are you getting people to come to Mykina?

So that's really interesting. I've been on TV. I've been interviewed about the rising grocery prices. Anytime that happens, a ton of people just sign up. Because they're very concerned about rising grocery prices, both here in the States and in the UK and beyond. So anytime that happens, sometimes a media outlet will just pick us up. We were on The List, which is super cool. It's a standard TV show, kind of like Entertainment Tonight. All of a sudden my husband came into my office one evening. He's like, you're on The List, you're on The List. I'm like, what? So we win grants. We won a grant from Comcast and there's like a little, 30-second video running about Makina. Sometimes it's all free for us. It's pretty amazing.

Yeah. And how did that happen? You say Comcast is a broadcast company, isn't it? If I'm not mistaken. So just tell us, how did you get a 30-second free spot on Comcast? Is that cable TV?

Yeah, it is. And Xfinity TV or whatever they call it now. But we applied for a grant and we won a grant from Comcast is a rising founder and company. And so there's lots and lots of opportunity out there. You just have to keep open to it. For example, this podcast is great, right?

Thank you.

You can't say yes to everybody, but you mostly have to say yes.

Well, you know how to make someone feel special, Karen. There you go. I'm just someone you said no. I'm joking apart. So when I reached out to you, Karen, through LinkedIn, because I saw you're also in a book, What you haven't mentioned though is the obvious sort of Google, Facebook, Instagram. Are you not using those, what most people would consider to be sort of essential channels?

So we do have them. So we have TikTok, it's called makina.app. We have Insta, it's Go Makina. We have Twitter, Go Makina. We have Facebook, Go Makina. We have now a YouTube channel where we're starting to publish our game. We're going to get more and more out there. It's called What's in Your So it's both consumer-focused and brand-focused. So we have influencers that play that game show and they win a prize, but we're going to have the consumers be able to play along with us. We're actually building it into our platform, which is getting even more gamified. Our shoppers are super sticky. They love what we're doing. They want to be able to go to the store and instead of buying a Snickers bar, nothing wrong with a Snickers bar occasionally, buy a Kind bar or go to the store instead of buying Wonder bread, which is so much less expensive than Food for Life or Oodie's. They want to be able to do that for themselves and their family and the planet. So I get off— I'm off point a little bit. You asked me about other ways that we're reaching consumers. We have a referral program built into our app. Brands love to share Makina with their existing fan base. There's a lot of fans for every single brand that's on our platform. We have big partners that we are currently talking with, which will get our company and our platform in front of the app itself, right in front of millions upon millions of consumers. We're super excited about that. I think I mentioned influencers, you know, we've done some interesting trials and we know that does make a difference, but it all has to be really authentic. Is what I'm going to say. Like, the reason why I founded the company is because of my personal experience, my personal why. And I think that that why needs to shine. And if you have a very authentic brand, people will come to it. And so that's kind of where I'm going to leave it.

No, hey, look, that's wonderful. No, I think that authenticity and that you're partnering and doing it across so many different ways. If someone has Makina, do they get a discount them when they buy something? Is that how that works? Or they're getting cash back because you mentioned that it was maybe a bit cheaper if they use Makina. Is that how that's bridging the gap between buying maybe an unhealthy product and a better-for-you product? But by using Makina, you're arbitraging the difference and getting a reward. Is that how that works?

Yes. So a consumer downloads the app, as I said, it's free. They can search for products that meet either their dietary needs, like maybe gluten-free, or lifestyle preferences like vegan or not tested on animals. We show the consumer where you can buy the product. Again, anywhere, pretty much. We try to meet the consumer where they already buy products. And then once they get the product in hand, all they have to do is scan the barcode and submit the receipt through the app. And they either get points for doing things like that or actual cash. It goes into their balance. And when the balance gets to $20, they can cash out through PayPal or Venmo. The other thing that Makina does is you can do other things as a consumer. You can take a photo of the display in the store and you get points for that. You can share with your friends, get points for that, watch a video, try a recipe, share on Instagram. All of those things will total points that can again be converted to cash or swag or free product. And it's up to the brand. Again, it's a loyalty program for every brand that's on Makina. So a brand could even, if they wanted to, have a trip to Hawaii for a consumer.

Well, if I buy enough things, I could get a trip back to Boulder, Colorado, which would be fantastic. Although I know that in the UK, the app's not available. I think now the app is available for Canada and America, and you've got sort of plans for global rollout. Karen, wonderful. If there's one piece of advice— you've been an entrepreneur for many years, multiple companies— What would be the one key piece of advice you'd give to an unnoticed entrepreneur that you found has worked in terms of getting noticed?

Well, it was really interesting. During COVID I became more noticed. And the reason why was because my network opened up. I got onto Clubhouse and there I met a ton of people that I wouldn't have normally met. I have been a lawyer for 33 years and I was a general counsel. And as you mentioned, I taught at CU Boulder. So I had my little world, but that world was a different world than being a founder. And even though I had been a founder before, I'd been a founder in the '90s and things were very different. And so one of the people that I met on Clubhouse said to me, you really need to get out there because people aren't going to learn about Makina just because of Makina. They're going to learn about you initially. They're going to Learn how to trust and know you, right? And that's going to help you move the needle on the company. But she said, just be your authentic self. Tell everybody your story and why you're doing this and be present. Pick one or two platforms to be present on. I chose LinkedIn because I'm a lawyer and a former CPA, and I feel super comfortable with the professionalism of that platform. And we have other— you'll notice on our Instagram, we really mostly talk about what McKinnon can do for a consumer. Consumer. It's not about me, right? There are a lot of influencers out there, their Instagrams or TikToks are about them. Ours are about the brands that we work with and about how those brands can help these consumers lead a healthier life on a cleaner planet. So hopefully that's just getting out there and talking, being available and being authentic about what you're building.

And Karen, you've been absolutely authentic and absolutely engaging with me today. And look, I appreciate you did accept my invitation to come on this show and I'm glad that I made that. If you want to find out about you, where can they go, Karen? Give them maybe just one place you'd like people to come and track you down.

Yeah, so you can just email me at karen.frame@makina.com. I'll answer. Or you can just go to LinkedIn and message me through LinkedIn. Although I have to say, LinkedIn is becoming a little bit unwieldy these days. There's just, I get so many DMs or messages on LinkedIn. Really have to pick my channel because sometimes you get DMs on Instagram and TikTok, and I have interns that are helping me work on those right now, so I don't always see those. So just email me.

Okay, email now, and I'll put Karen's details in the show notes because actually, although we pronounce it Karen, it's K-A-R-E-N. So I don't want you to fall foul of mispronunciation there. Karen, thanks so much for joining me from the -14. You've been very warm although you're in a cold place, so thank you. I appreciate that.

Well, thanks so much for having me on. It's great to meet you.

Yeah, it's been really my pleasure and inspirational too. And I really love what you're doing. So that's just what this show is about, finding unnoticed entrepreneurs who are trying to make a difference and doing it really without a budget, but with a lot of grit, persistence, and creativity. So looking forward to watching the game show. And obviously I'll put links to this show and to Karen in the show notes. And in the meantime, if you enjoyed this, please do share it with a fellow entrepreneur. And if you've enjoyed the show, please do review it. It really, really helps. With the rankings. And until we meet again, I do encourage you to just keep on communicating. Now I'd just like to mention our sponsor for this show. The Unnoticed Entrepreneur podcast is sponsored by a company called Prowly. Prowly is an all-in-one software for leveraging your public relations activities. You can boost the media relations game for your business, find media contacts, to send out press releases and get more coverage while saving time and money on everyday tasks. Check it out, prowly.com.