Why you should focus on building authority, not an audience, on LinkedIn; with Dina Calakovic

Hello and welcome to a special edition of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Today I'm joined by Dina Chalakovich. I'm hoping that I've said her name correctly. Thank you very much indeed. We're not famous, us British, for our ability to pronounce things. Dina, let's talk about you and LinkedIn. You're an expert on LinkedIn. You have over 23,000 followers. You've got over 100,000 engagements in the last month, just on one post.

In the last week.

Oh, in the last week. Okay. So even better than that. What's the difference between audience building and authority building on LinkedIn? And how do entrepreneurs leverage LinkedIn? Over to you, Dina.

Thank you so much. First of all, thanks for having me. And this is a great question to start with because many entrepreneurs nowadays don't know how to position themselves on LinkedIn. So what we teach. Business owners to do is that they need to position themselves as an authority in their industry. That will be ideal because when you manage to position yourself as an authority in your industry, then you'll be able to easily generate inbound leads, which is a very good position to be in for every business. So to be able to position yourself as an authority on LinkedIn, you need to create quality content, which means that you asked me earlier, like, what should people create in their posts? Should they post, I don't know, selfies? Should they post about their personal things? Should they post, I don't know, random quotes or whatever it is, or they should post something else? So here comes the difference between audience and authority building. Audience building is relatively easy, so anybody can build an audience. If you're, for example, a good-looking woman and you post half naked pictures or, you know, your selfies, of course your content will have a lot of likes, right? A lot of engagement as well as let's assume that you're some funny guy who has very good jokes and you post jokes on LinkedIn. Of course, again, you will have a lot of engagement. People will love to read that and so on. But now I just took 2 random examples. There are many.

Yes.

What I'm trying to say is that you can build a following like that, quite a large following, but you won't build authority. So nobody will come to you and say, oh, like, can you help me build a new prototype, you know, for my product or whatever it is? So you won't be positioned as an expert in their mind. So that's the difference between authority building and audience building. If you truly wanna generate inbound leads and if you want your LinkedIn to serve your business, then you want to be positioned as an expert in your ideal client's mind, right? And to be positioned as an expert, of course, you need to put out quality content. What I mean by quality content is that you need to solve your target audience's problems via your content. I'm talking too much. Be free to interrupt me.

No, not at all. I mean, the mic is for you, not for me, Dina. This is fantastic.

Thank you.

So a really great distinction between being an authority and having a large following. I think that's a really key distinction there. Some people are talking about groups and being in your niche. What's your view then, Dina? Should people be focusing on just being in a group to build authority or within the main, if you like, feed?

No, we don't use groups. Groups don't have any power on LinkedIn. So you solely focus on creating posts for your audience. So you focus on creating valuable posts. How do you know that the post is valuable? So the ideal post should have actionable advice for your audience. So when somebody reads your post, they can apply your advice immediately after they read it so that it's not vague advice. For example, oh, I don't know, build a brand on LinkedIn. Okay, great, but how? Like show me a 5-step process. Tell me something that I should do versus what I shouldn't do. The advice shouldn't be vague. The advice should be specific and it should be actionable. So each time you write the post, you go back and think, okay, if somebody reads that, can they apply it immediately after they read my post? If the answer is yes, then you're good to go. If not, Then you obviously need to rewrite it.

Wow, Dina, that's really, really good advice because I think a lot of people just sort of repost, for example, articles that they've read. I know I've been guilty of that as well. So actionable advice there that one needs to share, which you're doing with us now. Do you have a framework or a methodology that you can share with me and the other unnoticed entrepreneurs that would give us some guidance?

Yes, sure. So the post usually consists of 3 main areas. That is the hook, the body, and the summary. So the hook of the post is your first 2 or 3 sentences, is the part of the post before your reader clicks on, you know, where the see more part is, right? So that is the hook. Why is it called the hook? Your job with the hook is to hook the reader to click on see more and keep on reading. So what you want to accomplish with that hook is that the reader stops scrolling because currently if you open your LinkedIn app, you will see thousands of posts on your newsfeed, right? And you will just scroll and scroll and scroll. So your job with the hook is to interest reader enough to stop the scroll and continue reading your post. Let's say that if you have a good hook already Already 70% of your job is done here. We even made a product, a digital product, 67 hookbooks that you can just copy paste and apply to your industry. So the whole hook creation is way easier for you that way. So that is the first—

Wow.

Yes, that is the first part of the post. And let's say the most important one. Now, when you manage to hook the reader, you need to deliver that promise. Okay, so if you said, I don't know, how to create high engaging posts on LinkedIn, for example, you really wanna give good advice how to create a good engaging post on LinkedIn because otherwise it'll be just empty, like clickbaity stuff, and probably the reader won't open your post the next time it shows in their feed, right? So your job in the body of the post is to deliver that promise. And really give people some actionable advice, like I mentioned before. And then the last part of your post is either some call to action or it's just like a short summary, some like short punchline that summarizes everything you've said previously. So these are the 3 main parts of the post, how it should look like.

Dina, when you set the hook down to more, can you give us an idea of word count? Are we talking about? 10 to 15 words, 30 words. Give us some guidance there.

I'm not exactly sure what's the exact word count, but it's, let's say, 2 sentences, like 2 sentences before, before the rest of your post.

Okay. So really you've got to get right in there. Okay. So you mentioned a post that I got wrong, but you said you got over 100,000 impressions in a week. Can you just give us an example then? What would be the opening hook in that post?

Okay. So for example, one of the posts 2 days ago, I said, good marketing has very little to do with algorithms, tools, and tricks, and a whole lot with— and now you can see more. So, okay. Why is this a good hook? Because a lot of people actually do think that marketing is consisted of chasing the algorithms, like tools, doing the tricks, hacks, using hacks and so on, which is not true, right? So you are here breaking the common belief. That's why it's a good hook. So you say good marketing has very little to do with this and a whole lot with— now people want to click on see more because they wanna see, okay, now, you know, I thought it has to do a lot with algorithms, tools, tricks, hacks, whatever. You said it's not the way it is. So now I want to see what do you have to, like, what do you have to say? What does good marketing consist of? So of course people will click and read more. This is just like one example.

That's very clever. Well, that's a great example. Thank you. And Dean, you've talked about brand authority and I believe you've also got a 3-step sort of 3 phases as well. Do you wanna just take us through those? Because I think that's also really illustrative and educational for people.

Oh, okay. You mean, so you mean the, our process I was talking about earlier in our conversation? Okay. So basically every business needs to have the PAC framework. So every business needs the whole framework. It's P stands for positioning. So that's your brand strategy, how you position yourself in your ideal customer's mind. Then A is for attract. Here is where this content part comes in. So you need to attract your ideal clients through your content. That's the job of the content. And C stands for convert. You convert with the power of copywriting. So you need good copy to be able to convert. So you need a good LinkedIn profile, for example, if you have, if you're trying to attract leads on LinkedIn. Then of course you need to have a good copy on your LinkedIn, or if you drive traffic to your website, then you need to have a good copy on your website to convert. Or if you drive traffic to some landing page, of course you need a good copy on that landing page. So that will be the whole framework.

Okay. So you've got the 3 steps, positioning, attracting, and converting you've talked about there, right? And then there's a general view, although you said it It's not affected by algorithms, but there is a general view that if you put something to LinkedIn, it may or may not fly and it's dependent on the algorithm. So take us through, Dina, do you think that the algorithm does impact how post flies or are you saying just that if it's written well, it will carry and it'll get impressions?

Yes. Well, basically quality is primary. So You won't completely ignore the algorithm, but you won't focus on the algorithm. So many people focus on it, which is wrong because algorithms change often. They change on every platform. There is no point in chasing the algorithms. On the other hand, human psychology never changes. Okay? So you want to invest your attention accordingly. You want to invest your attention in good copywriting, in good hooks, in providing value. So this is where your attention should go because value will always win in the end. Of course, it's good to follow some tips, let's say algorithms best practice. So for example, if you are based in the States and your audience is in Europe, of course you will be careful that you don't post when it's 3:00 AM in Europe because nobody will see your post, right?

Right.

So some things like that, okay, you will follow these principles, but this is it. Like, this is where it stops. Everything else is about quality. I will also give you an example. Recently, LinkedIn in the past X amount of months, I don't know how long has been this torture going on, is LinkedIn put a big emphasis on polls. And a lot of people, if you noticed in your feed, were creating shitty polls. I would say 99% of them were. Pure crap, no value, just because people knew, okay, LinkedIn is now pushing hard polls, I'm gonna post polls as well. So the truth about it is you can post that poll, people will vote, you won't use these votes for anything probably.

Yeah.

And you will just damage your reputation. I mean, is it worth it to damage your reputation and post crap just because that one post will be seen? I mean, you will get nothing from it. Nobody will reach out to you later. And say, oh, Jim had a great poll on what's better to eat for breakfast, pancakes or waffles. By the way, I saw that poll. This is not something I'm making up. So what I'm trying to say here, if you're trying to position yourself as an expert, you can't build yourself as an expert through algorithms. You can only build yourself through quality and sharing advice to people.

Okay. Just to clarify, that wasn't my poll about pancakes, by the way, because I call them crepes.

I know I gave an example.

Okay.

But I read it. I read it for real.

No, I'm just joking there. So, okay. So we've got our authority building. We've got to solve the problem for our reader, our audience in the post with some actionable advice. Dina, what's your view on some of the other formats? For example, like uploading a video, using audiograms. Is it worth the effort or not to use multi-format content in LinkedIn?

I mean, of course it is. We always suggest our clients to do what works best for them. So as you can see, I'm not the greatest person for a video. This is why I write. But if you're a great person on a video, if you're a charismatic person, I have a client, for example, right now who is voice communication coach. Okay, so he teaches people how to communicate effectively, how to speak in public. So of course he needs to use videos, right? That's the nature of his business. So we always say whatever makes most sense for your business and whatever you're the most comfortable with, go with that. Because you need to remember that posting on LinkedIn and building brand authority takes time and consistency. And it'll take a lot of your energy, especially in the beginning.

Okay.

So you don't want to create something that will create, that will demand even more of your energy. So you will give up very easily. You know, let's say that you hate doing videos. I hate doing videos. For example, if I had to do videos each time, I would give up a long time ago.

Okay.

So while on the other hand, I enjoy writing. Okay. So each time I need to write the post. It's not a bore for me. Like I enjoy doing it. So that's the whole philosophy, you know, do whatever works best for you.

Dean, that's great advice there. What about frequency? You've mentioned that a couple of times. Is there a rule how often one should be posting?

There is not a strict rule. I would say, of course, if you post more, it's better, but I would suggest that in the beginning, you solely need to focus on quality always. So never sacrifice quality for quantity. So don't write 5 posts per week just to tick the box. Oh, I posted today, you know? So only post the amount of posts that you can really write quality posts. So if you can write 4 quality posts a week, stop there. Don't post more. Funny fact is that in the beginning I started with only 1 post a week. Then I realized, okay, this is really not enough. Then after a month, I started with only 2 posts a week, and for the whole year I had only 2 posts a week. And then I started with 4 posts. So with these 2 posts a week, but they were super quality posts, I had 9,000 followers in 9 months. Yeah, it was from 700 to 9,000 followers in 9 months.

Yeah.

Only with 2 posts a week because they were really quality posts. So what I'm trying to say is, of course, more is better, but never sacrifice the quality.

Yeah, that's a really good point, Dina. What about some of the other formats? For example, the articles in LinkedIn. You're talking about posts. What's your view on putting articles into LinkedIn?

Yeah, articles, they just don't perform well. And I don't know, the audience is simply doesn't favor articles on LinkedIn. So I wouldn't suggest posting, like if you want to post articles, rather post it on your website or on Medium or somewhere else or in your newsletter. The best way to do it would be through your newsletter, but LinkedIn, no. LinkedIn favors posts way more.

What about newsletters in LinkedIn, which is a new feature, which I have to confess I've just turned off because I've been invited to so many. What's your view on the Newsletters in LinkedIn?

Yeah, I wouldn't use them. We are planning to launch a newsletter soon and I wouldn't use them just because it's not clever to not own your audience, you know, to be again connected to strictly to the platform, right? So what you're trying to achieve is that you have audience on the platform, but as well outside of the platform where you can own that audience. Because if sometimes, if something happens with the platform, You know, you won't be in a good position. So you don't want to put all eggs in one basket. This is the point.

Right. Okay. So using great content, quality content, which is a superb point, quality content to lead them, for example, to a lead magnet on your own website.

Yes.

So that they become part of your own newsletter in your own environment, right?

Yes, exactly like that. Yes.

Okay. And Dina, With your company, just tell us how could people get in touch with you so they can learn more about you and how you help people to become an authority, presumably with a big audience as well as you've done on LinkedIn?

Yes, thank you. Well, the best way would be to reach out to me on LinkedIn because our website is currently in the making. It will be out soon, but still the best way is to just to shoot me a DM on LinkedIn.

Okay. And what sort of services do you offer, Dina, to help people?

So yes, at the moment we offer LinkedIn coaching, personalized LinkedIn coaching one-on-one. We'll also have a LinkedIn cohort course out soon. Then we offer Content Matrix. So it's a framework for personalized framework for your content that saves you 70% of your time on creating the content. And we also offer copywriting. So copywriting of your LinkedIn profile, of your website, sales or landing pages. So this is what we are focused on, LinkedIn and copy.

Great. And of course, Dina, I will put all of your contact details in the show notes now. Dina Čalaković. I've attempted to pronounce that correctly a second time, actually originally from Croatia, but here in Scarborough. Thank you so much for joining me today on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur Show.

Thank you for having me, Jim.

It's been my pleasure. And just for the record, I actually reached out to Dina through LinkedIn because I read a post and thought she knows what she's talking about. So thank you to Dina for sharing with us unnoticed entrepreneurs on how to get noticed on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for joining me, Jim James.

You're most welcome. Thank you.

On this episode.