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You should see a countdown and we're off. Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Today we're going to Chicago, the Windy City, where we're going to be talking to Jonathan Rosenfeld, who's built a personal injury lawyer practice with over $250 million recovered for his clients. He's got about 4,000+ files open at the moment. In America, it's all on contingency only, and he's managed to build this brand. And we're going to learn from Jonathan how he's managing to build such a wonderful and magnetic brand for his practice. Jonathan, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me.

Jonathan, look, you've got an inspirational story. I'm really looking forward to hearing. We don't normally talk to lawyers, um, but we're not gonna really dwell too much on, on having litigation, but about how you've been building this practice. So tell us, how have you built a practice that's so successful in a really quite a hard market?

It is a, it is a tough— it's a very, very competitive market. If you look at the, the cost per click on Google, most of the legal terms, and in, uh, specifically personal injury terms, are some of the most expensive terms on the internet. So there's a lot of money and effort getting thrown into this space. And what I've, you know, always tried to do is just try to stay, you know, half a step ahead of people. Um, and, and a lot of times that means, you know, basically carving out your niche online.

Tell us how you've done that, because when I go to your website, there's a lot of great tech There, of course, we'll put a link to it, but why don't you just talk us through some of your strategy? Because it's omnichannel and it's instant. So just take us through what's been your, your strategy and the core philosophy behind, uh, getting the business noticed.

Yeah, I think the number one thing is, is really content creation. And when I say content creation, I'm not necessarily talking about creating content that's sells. I'm talking about creating content that actually solves a problem or answers a question for a prospective client. In today's world, I think people are much, much more sophisticated than, you know, a lot of times we give them credit for. By the time someone, you know, actually picks up the phone or, you know, fills out a form for a contact, they've done quite a bit of research on the particular topic. And what I want to do is I want to educate people on that, that subject. You know, if someone was in an auto accident and they've got questions about, you know, the insurance involved, they've got questions about their injuries, they got questions about the value of their case, I want to give them information on all those different angles. So, you know, number one, they're informed, but number two, You know, they're gonna— they may not remember the, the person who just tries selling them everything, but at the end of the day, what I hear consistently is, you know what, I, I just had to call you. I, I kept seeing your information every search I was doing on whatever it was, and I, I wanted to reach out to you because you seem very knowledgeable on the topic. And so that's really what we try to do front and center.

Okay, that's wonderful. Um, And you've raised a couple of issues there. First of all, perhaps we can talk about speed because most people when they've been in an injury, they're ringing up in a state of some distress, maybe some panic, certainly some stress. First of all, just address how quickly you think it's necessary to respond to clients.

Speed is the key. Um, you know, when people have a situation, you know, a lot of times we've got clients who've, you know, no one can plan for, for an accident or for an injury involving themselves or their loved one or whatever it is. And we recognize that, you know, they've got questions that, you know, their mind is racing. They've got questions about their, their injuries. They have questions about the financial aspect if they're unable to work. They've got questions about how to deal with the insurance companies. There's so many different aspects to these cases that move so quickly that we realize— we've heard this time and time again— realize that, you know, we have to answer these questions because if we don't, they're going to go to the person down the street. So when someone contacts our office, you know, we are available 24/7. Um, obviously some of us do sleep. Periodically. But, uh, you know, we will respond very quickly because we realize that time is both of the essence, both from a, uh, an intake perspective in terms of answering their questions, but also in terms of if it's a new client. Um, we're, you know, we're available on weekends because, you know, people get in accidents on the weekends. So, you know, we found that if, you know, there's some statistics out there that if we respond within a couple minutes, our rate of signing the case increases drastically than if we wait. If someone contacts us, you know, at 6 or 7 o'clock at night and we don't respond to that case till the next morning, more often than not that case is going to be gone and someone else is going to get that case.

Wow. So really is real time. Do you want to just take us through what you've done on your website, um, to facilitate this, um, getting in touch with you? Because not everyone gets your mobile phone number on the internet, right? I mean, that would be unmanageable.

Right. So, you know, we do have— we've got, you know, in my office we do have a team of intake people who do take live calls, you know, almost, you know, almost 24 hours a day. Um, and they will basically do triage on the case. They'll get some information and we can get it to attorneys to review and, and, you know, go through cases like that. But we also have You know, contact forms. A lot of times if people have, you know, if they're in the hospital or something, they may not have the ability to make a phone call or to text, but they may want to, you know, maybe they're more comfortable filling out a contact form. And then we also do a live chat feature where people can talk with, you know, a live person via chat. Again, this is something that people are sort of increasingly comfortable doing. But what we want to do is, regardless of if you're, you know, comfortable or uncomfortable doing a contact one way or another, we want to be available to people in a manner that maybe they are comfortable with. So we try to tailor to everyone's, you know, level of technology and how they like to communicate. You know, some people don't like to talk on the phone. They just want to text. They don't want to do that. So we try to tailor our services to really what people want and need.

Jonathan, it leads me to a question about CRM. I know this may sound a little bit geeky, but if you've got all these people contacting you by all these different ways, you've got an 888 number on your website, you've got the chat. Can you just take us through how you're managing that on the systems side so that you've got some consistency in the relationship once that they've first been in contact with you?

Sure. Um, we use the software that basically, depending on how they contact us, some of it is actually input directly into our case management software. So for example, if If they contact us via phone, that phone call, we, you know, if it's— especially if it's done after hours and we have a call service who does it, that call with their— with the client's name, telephone number, email, if they have a— give out a physical address, as well as the case type, that goes into a case management system right away. And even if it's a case that we do not accept, we have that data. And if someone contacts us later on, we can track, you know, how they got to our office. A lot of times we get referrals from, you know, from other clients, from old clients, and we are able to track that. So I'd like to— I love having data. I love having that ability to track things. And it's really, really crucial as a business owner.

Yeah.

to track where your business is coming from so you can, you know, know what's working and what's not. But we do everything.

Okay, wonderful. And is there a hero system that you've got at the back end? What CRM? Can you give us a name of a platform you use?

We use a platform called Captura, which You know, it's a legal platform, but I'm sure there's others out there. And then that actually feeds into a case management system, which, um, if, you know, for example, if someone does contact us, we do sign the case up there. There's another platform that we use which actually transfers that to, um, a case management system. So it's actually— it's the, the legal sphere has gotten very, very sophisticated from a technical perspective, really over the past 5+ years. But, um, it's made our lives a lot easier. And, you know, when you're dealing with these, you know, serious accident cases, you— it's super important that you do things the right way. So it's really, it's really been very helpful.

No, they're wonderful. And it sounds as though, um, Having a system is central to that. But the other part that you mentioned at the beginning was about content. You, you know, you mentioned before we started recording your background, actually you had a journalism major before you then studied law and passed the bar. Can you share with us what's your content strategy? You've mentioned about answering questions, but where are you putting these answers? And also importantly, what formats Are you creating these answers?

Um, it depends, you know, things always are constantly evolving online, you know, if there's no such thing as, you know, um, being stagnant or being complacent when it comes to websites and, and online marketing. So what I do in terms of developing content is, is really 2 different things. A lot of times, you know, you and I were talking earlier that there's a huge disconnect, or there can be a huge disconnect between what business owners think their customers may be looking for and what they actually are looking for. And, you know, I've— it's been— sometimes I'm a slow learner and stubborn person, but it's taken me a while to sort of figure that out. But at the end of the day, you know, you have to develop content to what satisfies what people are looking for online. And the way you can locate that, the way I locate that, is I do a couple different things. But if you look at You know, if you do a Google search, and depending on what the terms are and where you are located, it'll say people also ask. And right there is just— that's taken on search data, and that's information that you can take as a marketer or business owner and develop content around that. Now, the other tool that I use is, uh, you know, it's a subscription service called Ahrefs, and Ahrefs will basically— it just takes that to the, to the next level. It'll show you what the keyword search volume is for a particular term or a particular phrase, and then you can see who's ranking for that term or that phrase. And, you know, it does take some legwork, but there, you know, you can look and see how long, you know, your competitors are writing content. Is it, you know, 500 words or is it 5,000 words? And that changes also quite a bit. So that's how I develop content, you know, initially. But the truth is, is that it's constantly getting changed and tweaked.

Yeah, as you say, it's such a dynamic process, isn't it? The algorithms change, but the need to educate rather than to sell sounds as though that's kind of the consistent long-term trend though, Jonathan.

Absolutely. You know, people today are much, much more sophisticated than a lot of people give them credit for. By the time someone contacts my office, typically they've done research on their particular case. They've done research on maybe their injuries. Maybe they're looking for information about the case value, maybe the insurance companies involved. All these different things people are really, you know, it's so easy for people to go out and just, you know, pick up their phone and start searching, um, which it really has changed the dynamic because, you know, before, or maybe 10 years ago, I, I'd be, you know, educating someone about their, their rights. Um, and again, I'm not saying that doesn't happen anymore, but today A lot of times, by the time someone comes into my office, they know quite a bit about their situation. They know quite a bit about what their rights are, and it's just changed, you know, drastically. So, you know, obviously I have to, you know, still present that to them, and I still have to, you know, educate them about their rights and their options. But it's just people. more sophisticated. And I think as a business owner, you have to realize that and start preparing information that is structured in that way.

Yeah. And I guess there's almost sort of a global sort of education process taking place through the content that people like yourself, Jonathan, are putting out, isn't there? There's every day more and more education-based content going online. And it's creating this amazing university for people. Jonathan, what about format? I noticed on your website you've got, for example, a YouTube video of you talking about why you are an injury lawyer. What's been your experience? Is video key, or is it text? Is it images? Any guidance you can give there?

Yeah, I, you know, it's everything. I think people today, they want, they expect to see you know, video. They expect to see graphics. They expect everything. Um, you know, if you go— if people are— people today are— they're accustomed to getting on Amazon and seeing pictures of the product, your reviews of the product. They're, they're used to every single thing. So as a, as a business owner, you have to— again, you have to cater to that need. Um, is everyone going to look at your video? No. Is everyone going to look at your graphics with the, you know, spend time, you know, reviewing the graphic that you spent a lot of time and money preparing? No. Uh, is everyone gonna read every single, you know, word on your, on your fantastic webpage that, you know, you spent hours and hours doing? No. But at the end of the day, it's, it's sort of the combination of those things which really helps. And also, again, just from a trust perspective, You know, when you have all these different elements on the page or on your website, it builds trust with your prospective client. And that goes a long way, not even necessarily towards, um, uh, you know, selling them, but it goes a long way towards converting them because they feel like, you know, hey, this person has really done the work. They're clearly serious about this, this topic. I'm going to contact them.

Wonderful, wonderful points there, Jonathan, about leading to trust. You've mentioned about content creation. Can you give us a guidance of, you know, how much is enough? You talked about putting content out and this really portfolio of, you know, video, images, text, and you have a podcast as well, I know. For most people, most business owners, that seems quite a daunting task. Can you give us an idea of sort of almost like a minimum viable content feed?

It really just depends on the business, the vertical and what your competitors are doing. You know, if I could say, you know, if I don't know if you're selling shoes, you know, and you're going against Zappos, you're gonna be hard pressed to to compete, you know, in the absence of doing something different. You know, may not be, you know, you're probably never going to create the content that a mega brand like that can do. But what you can do is maybe you can do videos about, you know, if you sell special running shoes, you know, maybe do videos about that, differentiate yourself that way. So, you know, what's enough? I don't know. It's whatever is enough, you know, I guess, You know, it's enough when your phone, you know, either starts ringing or stops ringing. You know, that's the beginning and endpoint. But no, it's just a constant process that you just have to invest time into long-term.

I guess a bit like getting fit, right? You know, the more exercise you do, the more fit you'll become. Now, you've got so many cases coming in because You're so successful at this, you must be getting more work than you can handle, Jonathan. How, how do you deal with that? Well, nice problem to have, of course.

Uh, you know, it, it ebbs and flows, but, you know, in the States, you know, we have a, you know, um, world of personal injury. You're, uh, in the legal world, you are allowed to give and take referrals and give and take referral fees. So, you know, for example, I have, you you know, content about, you know, rear-end car accidents on my website. And if someone— you know, I practice in Illinois, I'm licensed in Illinois, but if someone contacts me from a different state, what I can do is I have relationships with other attorneys in other states and maybe other, um, who practice other types of law. I can send them the case, refer them the case, and I can get a referral fee on the back end. So there's, you know, I always find that there's plenty of very skilled, very smart, very, um, capable attorneys out there. Um, some of them don't have time, they don't have the interest really in, um, looking at the marketing side of things. And, you know, when I— if I can refer them business, it's frankly, it's a win-win situation for everyone. It's a win for number one, it's a win for the client. Because at the end of the day, you know, my job is really— despite, you know, the fact that I'm a business owner, my job is really dependent on my success, the reputation I have, and the success I have with the client. So I want first and foremost to get the client to the most capable person that I know who can really help them. But also, you know, secondary as a business person, Um, you know, when I refer that person, uh, you know, it's great business. I get a referral fee. It's a— the person who's handling the case also makes money. So it's a— it's really a win-win situation for all.

And what's nice about that is the message that if you do create great content and invest in that, actually it generates revenue, kind of incremental revenue over and above your core business. Jonathan, one final question. If there's one piece of advice you'd give to our fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs on how to get noticed, what would it be?

Be consistent and just keep going. I, I think a lot of times, um, I, I've talked with many, many people, attorneys, non-attorneys out there. Maybe they started a website or a blog or something and they said, oh, I blogged for a month and I spend a lot of time doing it and I never got any contacts. And my response is, so, uh, the truth is who have success, um, it, it's not the first— it's not the first time they, uh, they have success, you know. They— it's, it's just the constant, you know, tinkering, the constant grinding, and the long-term, uh, viability of their business is really dependent on how they're putting that energy out there consistently. So just keep going, be persistent, and, uh Some things will happen.

And more things will happen having learned what you shared today, Jonathan Rosenfeld from Chicago. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with me today and my fellow Unnoticed Entrepreneurs on the show.

Thank you.

So you've been listening to me, Jim James, your host here in the UK and Jonathan in Chicago. We'll put all those show notes next to the podcast. If you've enjoyed it, do please share this with with a fellow entrepreneur who you think can benefit. And if you've got time, it really helps if you can review the show on your player. And until we meet again, just to do encourage you to keep on communicating.