Jimmy Butler joins Knuckleheads with Quentin Richardson and Darius Miles | The Players' Tribune

Buckets, the nickname. You had Buckets, the nickname, before you got to Chicago or—

Man, hell no. It came when he started getting all the buckets.

Yo, relax, man, why you gotta do that?

The city, the city.

Try getting all the buckets.

'Cause I know—

I wasn't gonna lie and say I had it beforehand, no, it was Stacey King.

Yeah, I know like the—

Sky King.

In Chicago, the Pro-Am, you know, I didn't hear Jimmy Butler, I was like, man, I'm like, he nice and all that stuff, and then, you know, I hear the homies in Chicago and they be like, yeah, You talking about Jimmy Buckets from the program? And I'm like, is this the same dude? They like, nah, that's his name, Jimmy Buckets. So Chi-Town gave you that name?

Yeah.

That's what's up.

And it stuck with me a little bit ever since. I'll take it.

Nah, that's a dope nickname. That's a dope nickname. Never stop, never settle. What I wanna know, especially since you a defender, I was a defender, Who's the first, when you first got to the league, who was the first?

I was the first of the two.

Stop it. No, you wasn't.

Don't do that.

No, you wasn't.

You're the scorer, shooter at that.

3-point shooter, he used to post up.

You could dunk a little bit, but—

In the second, later part of my career, I was a defender.

No, you used to break people.

First off, you're a defender first, and then you start to lose your mobility, so then you become a 3-point, it's not the other way around.

No, you did not.

Exactly, exactly what I said.

Disrespectful.

Us being defenders, you know.

Stay over there, stay in your lane.

Us being defenders. You just like him 'cause he wore number 21.

Ain't no one like you.

Hey bro, we'll get into that later. Who's the first person that bust your ass in the league and you was like, ooh, this is the league, this where it's at. Like some of the shit he was hitting, like, ooh, I ain't know.

And then you realize like it's the league for you. That can happen on any certain night.

Yeah. Who was the first person that got in your ass? Like he was like—

Who probably you wasn't expecting though. Not like one of the big name dudes where it was like—

It's never who I'm not expecting. 'Cause every time I played, I always had to guard the big name guys.

Right.

So whether it was Kobe or whoever it was, damn, man. I would say KD the first time that I lined up against him, man. Just 'cause to me, he's so disrespectful with his game 'cause he's 7 feet and he can like shoot over anybody. You know what I mean? So he'd be like, yo, good D. Like, what can you do? He's shooting fadeaways off one leg.

Dribbling.

Hey, all you can do is look over at the bench and be like, nah, yo, guard him.

Look at him crazy. Like you wanna come try to—

I said, I say the same shit.

Okay. Hey, you, we like, you 6'7", I'm 6'5", 6'6".

Okay.

Don't look at me like that. But when he's 7 feet, once he get to his spot and raise up, it's over with.

You just gotta hope he miss.

And he just like, yeah, I don't really see none of that.

Yeah.

You gotta hope he miss.

I committed to St. John's, Q committed to DePaul, and I got sucked in by Midnight Madness. What was the reason that you chose Marquette?

I wasn't as good as y'all. Be quiet, see, look, you was gonna say some bullshit. I wasn't about to say— Yes, you was.

He know how I'm gonna hate on Marquette, but I wasn't going there yet. I was about to say, you know, speak on not only that, you know, you went JUCO first, so you went a different route totally. I wasn't about to get the hate on you just yet.

But you was though, you speaking.

It's coming, it's definitely coming. I wasn't going there yet, I was gonna say, Explain your JUCO too. Yeah, I want you to explain that whole—

It's a long story, but to cut it all down, when I went to JUCO, I played with this guy named Joe Foles, who had already committed to Marquette.

Okay.

In November. So when I get there, I went to Town Ball right outside of Houston, I shot the ball every time. And I was like, man, can I really compete with the best of these guys? JUCO was tough, like dog eat dog, Man, if you pass the ball, you might not get the ball. Everybody trying to get to the next level. So me and this Joe Foles, we ended up being roommates. Later on down the story, we ended up being the two best players on the team. But I come out the first game and I score 33. I was like, damn, I scored 33 in college, JUCO but college. I was like, shit, man, maybe it's not a fluke. I come out the next game, I was like, man, all right, let's see if last game was a fluke.

Right.

37, and I was just like, oh, you know, maybe I can hold my own. Buzz came in, he was assistant at Marquette under Crean at the time, and I was always around Joe, so he always would speak to me, be nice to me, yada, yada, yada, yada.

Mm-hmm.

And then one day, you know, I'm playing well, so I got all of these schools talking to me, offering me now. He comes up to me, he's like, you know what, if I ever had a head coaching job, like, you would be a player that I would wanna come you to come play for me. I'm like, man, get outta here, man. Kareem ain't going nowhere. Like Kareem had D-Wade. Shout out Coach Kareem. You know what I'm saying?

He recruited me when he was in Michigan State in school, back when I was in school, he was under Izzo. He got all the other—

See, see.

Yeah, so we go way back.

And so I'm like, man, good dude, but I mean, Kareem is there, like you assistant coach? Dude, Kareem leaves, go to Indiana, Buzz gets the job. I'm the first person he calls, like he would always, he always had told me the truth and all of this, so. You know, without even visiting, I went to Marquette. I didn't even know that shit.

That's crazy.

I didn't know where—

Marquette was?

I didn't know where Milwaukee was, let alone where Marquette was. I didn't know where Milwaukee was. I didn't know what state it was in. I didn't know it snowed.

That's crazy.

So I went to Marquette.

You was in for a rude awakening.

Like I was in Houston, basketball shorts and tees. So when I got there, I was like, shit. I was in Wesley Matthews' closet, stealing all his jackets, bro. Like, 'cause I didn't have nothing. Didn't have nothing. I went in literally slippers, basketball shorts, white tees.

That Hulk got hold too. You had to wake up.

You had to walk. Oh, terrible. So that's how I ended up over there. Crazy, but.

That's what's up.

Juco days.

That's cool. So when you got to school, what was that like for you? Like when you started, how was that maturation process?

The absolute fucking worst. Fucking worse.

So, so wait, Buzz was loving you. He was the one who was keeping it real with you. How did it go to the worst?

He kept it real with me. He did. He said, hey, when you get the ball, throw it to one of the fucking good players, throw it to fucking Dominique James, Wesley Matthews, Azhar Harrod, Jerell McNeil. And so when I got in, he played me 'cause I played hard. And like when the ball went up, I was going to get the ball.

Right.

Now when I got the ball, you could fucking just go to anybody 'cause I wasn't gonna shoot it. I was just gonna turn around and find one of the good players.

Right.

So that's how I made my mark in Marquette basketball and that's how he kept me on the floor. He was like, Jimmy will go get us extra possessions. He'll take a charge here and there, offensive rebound, he gonna get it. You don't gotta worry about him shooting it 'cause he gonna give it to one of those four guys.

Yeah.

And then, you know, I started, they call it Jamie's Bunch. He was the GA at the time so I had to go in with him early, work on all of this stuff fundamentals, da da da da. I was like, man, and this motherfucker Buzz used to dip, cuss me out, like dip all in my fucking face.

Oh.

Throwing balls like, Jimmy, what the fuck was that? I was like, yo, but then again, I'd be looking, I'd be like, man, Dominique James just did the same shit and you didn't say nothing to that motherfucker. But that's when I started to realize that there's levels and there's roles. Like, I mean, hell, That's Dominic James. At that point in time, I was just me. So I was like, shit, I would yell at me too. I'm not yelling at Dominic James. You know what I mean? But Buzz was a real one, man. He taught me so much. Honest since day one, still is that way now, probably to a fault. Like he got something to say about everything. Like, yo, I saw what that, that, I'm like, Buzz, relax, man. Just relax. I'm not a kid no more, but that's my guy. I love how he plays though. Man, that's my, I love him. I love him to death. That's my guy.

So how did you get from there, like going from being the guy like, all right, give everybody the ball to like when you getting ready to get up out of there now, you like figuring shit out, I could hoop, you know what I'm saying? You coming into your own, you figuring out like, man, I could hold my own, I could do this.

My role changed, my role changed. Like, you know, my junior year when all of those guys left, I got the ability to be able to just, you know, shoot a couple bad shots, attack at any point in time.

He trusted you.

That's what it was.

You put the work and time.

And he put confidence in me to add to the confidence that I already had. That's what the game is. It's all mental. That shit's 90% mental. And the other 10% is like, man, you gotta be able to go out and do it.

You gotta be physically be able to do it.

But if you think that you can do that, man, you can. And so he was giving me the ball, boom, boom. I never forget my junior year in the tournament, Quincy Pondexter, game, drove right by my sorry ass, game. And I was like, man.

QP.

Man, I was like, that shit's not happening again. So all we focused in on was like, how can you guard somebody? So the next year coming back, I guarded Marshawn Brooks in college.

Ooh, that was a bucket.

A bucket and a half.

He was a bucket.

Man, Cardiac Kemba guarded him in college, all of those guys. That's a problem. That's when Big East was real too. Yeah, for real. It was real. And that's when I started to take defense a lot more seriously than offense as well. But my offense was always just behind my defense 'cause I locked in on a defensive end. I never forget Wesley Matthews came back and was like, "Yo, you can play in the league." I was like, "Word." And that's when I really started to take basketball for real, for real.

So like being able to be getting—

To go on a higher level.

Yeah.

For real to go on a higher level.

That's when I was like, you know what? Maybe I can be a pro at the highest level. Not Europe pro, nothing's wrong with that. But like the NBA, like that's where you wanna be at. That's the best of the best. And he came back and told me that and I was like, shit, why not?

People don't understand how that changed when you get a chance to go out there and be given that freedom to make mistakes and not be worried about if I'm about to get pulled out. Yeah, like you ain't getting pulled out or just getting somebody going crazy on you for one little, Like when you get that little freedom, it's like, all right, I could loosen up now, I could try, I could kind of go explore this game a little bit.

I had Rip as one of my vets, right?

OG Rip, hold that.

That's my family, come on.

Rip.

He used to come to me and then like he would be injured, Ronnie Brewer be nicked up, Lou Alldane would be nicked up, so I gotta start. But I would play the same way, Tizz was my coach, so I would play the same way if they was in the game. Like when I get in, like try not to make a mistake, like do what's right. Don't fuck up so you don't gotta come out the game. So I was playing like that. Timeout came, Rip pissed off. Jimmy, get your dumb ass over here. Come here.

What?

He was like, why are you playing like that? And I was like, man, I'm just trying not to fuck up. He was like, I hope you do fuck up just so you can see Nobody else can come in for you. You the only one. Like if you fuck up, nobody's gonna come in for you.

It's your time to shine.

And then I was like, damn, that motherfucker right. Then I just went out there and started hooping and I started playing well.

I can remember that. I can remember that whole change in like playing. Cause you know, I was still in the league playing at that time and it was like, I'm watching. I'm like, he went from like struggling, making mistakes. You could see it physically on your face. You'd be like trying to figure things out. Then it's like, he just started to make plays, play a little more freely and like figure it out. Then it was like, now he like, his confidence going through the roof and now he's starting to figure things out and like, hoop, hoop.

I want you to talk about like, 'cause I know you was defensive-minded, but when you put your imprint on the game of, oh, I can score on this level too. Like you started off, you was playing defense and then all of a sudden there's like, they tiers depending on you to score now. You taking more shots and it's like, oh, I can, I can average 20 in this league just with the best of them.

First off, that's hard to do.

It is.

Averaging 20 in the league, man. Knowing that you probably the number 1 or 2 guy on the scouting report. So they're like, yo, we gotta stop this guy. It's hard to do. So, you know, for James to be able to do what he do and Steph and knowing that like we gotta lock in and we gotta try to stop these guys, that's tough.

And the team to need that. Exactly.

Every single night.

Every night.

And then you gotta go down there and do it on defensive end too. But I just started working on my game. I never worked on my game as much whenever I was in college, in junior college or in high school, because I was like, man, I ain't finna be a pro. Like I'm from Tomball, I'm not a McDonald's All-American, I had to go to JUCO, like I doubted myself. That's why it's funny whenever you hear people say, oh, I knew Jimmy was gonna be that. Stop fucking lying.

Right.

I didn't even know that I would be that, you know what I mean? When people say that, I just be like, yeah, it sounds good, it sounds good.

Was you a hooper? Like, because I didn't work on my game, me coming out. I just played with adults and played a lot.

Yeah, that's what I did.

I used to go, anybody hooping? Are they over there hooping? I'm going to hoop. Are they playing in that tournament? I want to play in that. I just got the experience like that. Indoor, outdoor.

I was hooping.

Started out on crates.

That's how my experience got up, you know what I'm saying?

And I just, I just, I didn't know too much about game. So whenever I got to Juco, they taught me a little bit about the fundamentals of the game, footwork, got to college, they, Marquette, they did the same thing. And then I started, you know, working with a trainer, Chris Johnson outta Houston, my guy. And he started teaching me about the game and how I could be effective in my skillset. You know, I'm not Steph, so I'm not finna go out there and try to play like Steph, but I can be me and be effective in that way.

Be the best you.

That's it. And we did that, became All-Star, boom. I like to think that I've still been playing that way since.

Yeah, you see your points of where you can get your easy buckets, you learn the game. I see you do a lot of sealing, you and Ben Simmons, and I love that. Me being a big small forward, I used to always, if I got somebody small or so forth, I'm gonna run right under the goal and just seal them under there. You give me the ball, that's easy layup.

Easy, yeah.

—but you can get—

You don't know nothing about that. What you saying yeah for? Come on.

Stop it.

Stop it. You're a shooter.

Stop it. Everybody know I had the lunch pail. First of all, I was a rebounding guard and I put somebody inside the bucket.

I agree with that.

Underneath and inside the bucket.

In transition, you move the bucket.

No, no. He know he dropped that thing down there to me plenty of times and watched me abuse. Ask Rip, ask the OG.

But like Lil Bunny.

Good game. My bad.

Lil Bunny's like that, that help you. People don't know that goes into averaging 20. Knowing how to get the Lil Bunny's.

That starts your confidence.

A quick back and forth. Seeing the ball go through the basket or get to the line.

Exactly.

Oh man. If that jumper not working, you need that one right next to the rim to go for you or get you a foul and get to the free throw line and vice versa.

Gotta see the ball go in, man. That's how the scorers do it. Get you a couple easy ones. Now you're not pressing, you're not thinking about nothing. Ball going to basket and you're like, okay, I'm feeling it. I'm in a rhythm. Then you get a jumper or two. Oh, 'cause you gonna have one of them nights.

Like as a defender and you know, basically a two-way player, but somebody who's known as a defender, like how you feel about how the league is just slowly but steadily just crippling the defender? —and like just completely putting the guard, like, okay, like for Harden, he can travel now. He can do a double step back, step back, and just like, as if he ain't frying people and ain't gifted and talented enough, like we gonna take some stuff away from the defender and we gonna allow them to start doing illegal stuff. Like, how do you feel like as somebody who hangs their hat on that?

I don't give a fuck if a man travels or not. That's still a tough-ass shot to hit. Let's just get that out the way.

That's a problem.

That's what I'm saying. It's doubles, triples, step backs. I don't care. A step back from 3, as far as he be shooting anyways, shit's tough. But it's just like, man, you can't really be physical with nobody no more.

I'm done right there.

And that's where the game is.

Can't touch him.

What I'm gonna do? I'm done. If I can't be physical, I'm over with.

They let a little bit go during the playoffs, a little bit more, but— A little bit, a little bit.

But just think about, I look at it this way. Think of the way that y'all used to foul motherfuckers back in the day.

That's what I'm saying.

Think about that. They be like, "Oh, personal foul on you." Now you hit somebody like that, you're for sure getting a flagrant. Let's just get that out the way. Now you just gonna choose if it's a flagrant 1 or flagrant 2.

Oh, they gonna get you outta there, yeah.

Man, y'all used to fuck people up back in the troops.

I used to have so many whips. So many whips on.

Man, no layups. We not giving you no fucking layups.

That's why when I used to come, I'm coming. With all my might trying to dunk it hard as possible. Cause I know they coming, they'll fire you before they let you get it. Yeah. Another question I wanted to ask you, your competitive edge. Like when we got to the league, we was real competitive cause we was so young and we wanted to prove ourselves playing with these grown men. And it's like, it's 5 of us, 21 and under playing against these grown men with kids. Yeah. I want to, it's like two parts of this question. I want to know where you got your competitive edge to always compete every night, no matter if he give you 60 or 50, you made him earn everything he got.

Exactly.

And to continue to keep that competitive edge everywhere you go.

First off, I'm not going back to Tomball. Like that's how I keep looking at it. And why people ask like, why you keep doing what you doing? Yo, look, let me tell you something. I'm not going back to the life that I used to live. That shit is out. That shit's out. But my competitive edge, that shit comes from the fact that nothing was given to me, man. Nothing. I had to go to junior college. I had nowhere else to go. Right. And then when I got to Marquette, they was like, "Yo, this motherfucker ain't gonna make it." So I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna show you." That's where it come from. Like, I wasn't that good, so I know what the work can get you. So that's where my competitive edge come from. Like, I don't care. If you was a McDonald's All-American or a tradition, we all bleed the same.

Fact.

We all gotta tie our shoes up the same unless you wear Velcro, then you can slide the shit on and pull the strap over. But other than that, man, we gonna go at it. You don't scare me none. I don't care how big your name is, what your contract is. At the end of the day, you gonna have to, man, that motherfucker was playing out there today.

Like it's a price on his head. When you see him, it'd be like, man, I see him, I want to play against him.

But that's why I play the game as I tell everybody, like I don't do it for the fame. I don't do it for the money. I don't do it for nothing. The only reason that I do it is so when I go up against the guys that you could call out, they're gonna be like, that motherfucker go.

That's the respect factor. You want to respect your peers. Like everybody could say whatever, but like people don't even know. It's just like when you beat through, like the media could say whatever. As long as when you see that dude, he shoots you that look and he like, here we go. I gotta, I got something. I gotta bring my lunch pill tonight. Like that's the respect that we all want as hoopers and competitors like it don't matter what the outside world think, their opinion. Like we all know when they see, when just in that battle, how they reacting, they like, you know that they getting pushed to their limit. That's the respect you want.

I'm telling you, you know, before the game you doubt somebody up and you look across there, whether it Russ, PG, Bron, and they hit you with the—

Yeah.

Let's go.

Yeah, it's on. You already know.

Say it up, say it up.

That's why I play the game. Like I don't play it for no other reason, man. And you know, guys talk, guys know when they be like, oh man, he a fucking clown. Nobody fucking with him. Like motherfuckers know, you know.

We know who you are.

You know what I'm saying?

We know who you are. Shut up.

Like, come on. Like, I just want you to be like, yo, I respect him, but he play hard. I know he gonna be in here, he gonna make it tough for me tonight. That's why I play the game.

That's the one thing that translate all in, you know what I'm saying? Generations from, you know, I don't care when you play. And that's one thing that we respect about you and the way you play. We feel like you cut from the same cloth. I think that's why you brought up the story about how we came in and the way we competed and winning whoever, however, it wasn't no disrespect. It wasn't personal. We ready to fight if we gotta fight, but we coming, we trying to make a splash. Like, yo, them boys cold, them boys out there. We want everybody to know and we want everybody to see that we ain't scared, we ain't running from it, but hey, we here, you know what I'm saying? And like, we ain't backing down, like whatever.

I like that. I just told this story the other day, whenever I came into the league, MVP D-Rose, Defense Player of the Year Joe Kim, All-Star Lou, Booze, Rip, all of them guys. And the way that they used to talk to each other in practice is like, damn, you know, like if you can talk to MVP D-Rose like that, I know you gonna fuck me up when I do something wrong. Right. You know what I mean? So that's what I came into. Like you gonna be brutally honest in between these lines because we all trying to win. We all want each other to be successful. And I gotta know what you doing so this guy can know what I'm doing and what I'm supposed to do. So you're talking and all the time it's not gonna be like a, hey, can you please? You don't have time for that.

I feel like this—

Motherfucker, there's 20,000 people in the arena. You can't hear, hey.

I feel like now it's a, Everything is, hey, don't do that. You're not supposed to talk like, come on, bro.

Yo, I'm gonna say it, get right to the point. I'm gonna raise my voice a little bit. Might put a few F-bombs in there, but it's over with.

We all trying to work toward the same goal, bro. Like, come on, bro. Like we all come from different backgrounds. We all come, that's what the NBA is. It's people from every different walk of life you could think of.

Yeah.

As long as we all respecting everybody, each other's, you know what I'm saying? The way we come from and the way we are. Like, man, what you tripping for? You already like, everybody had a coach or, you know what I'm saying? A grade school coach, AAU coach, somebody, you know what I'm saying? YMCA, whatever, to be going off. But you know, he mean well, he love the hell outta the kids and everything. Don't do that.

Mm-hmm.

Don't be sensitive. Like, I feel like now everything is like, because there's so much access and there's so much, you could see everything. Like everything is so sensitive. Don't do that. Don't, that was, did you see that? That was, oh my, like, come on, man.

But I mean, at the same time, that's the world now. Social media ruins everything.

Like a big high school.

Oh my gosh. You can't say, do, act, go, nothing. Nothing. You can't.

Social media gonna get on you.

Things get blown outta proportion, outta, taken outta context. People don't even have the proper context for things. They just see a picture and go crazy.

So when they're a gap, they just gonna insert whatever the hell they want to insert.

There you go. Like, oh, I don't know what's going on here. I'm gonna just Jimmy Butler whatever I want to, right?

That shit be juicy as hell too.

Like, where do you— that's the thing I be sitting there sometimes, like sometimes just stuff come out, I be like, I have no idea if this is even remotely true, but like, if it is not, like who came up with this creativity of this story though?

Like, you know what I'm saying?

For this not to be true, like who sat down and thought of this? Like, this is some— you might be going to go do movies or something if you just creating stories like this.

Like, damn.

It gets real, I'm telling you. And that shit be funny, especially when it come to me. 'Cause I don't read nothing in the media. I promise you, I don't read nothing, but I know what's going on. Somebody always—

Yeah, 'cause it's your family. Yeah, we human.

Yeah, so I know what's going on, but I just be like, when they send me shit, and my thing is, if you know me, then you know that some of the shit that people be talking about, it's like, yo, He don't, he not that. Now that part, okay. But like, let's stop it. Stop it. And if you know me, you know where my heart is, you know what I mean? And how I do really play to win. I like that, that's the only reason why. I haven't won on any level. I can't say that I'm a winner. I don't want my career to end like that. Can you say that I'm a loser? No. I'm somewhere in there.

Nah, you not somewhere in there 'cause man, you know how much you overcome —to get to this place.

Yeah, but I want, like, give me like a championship ring, whether it be high school, college.

But we all can't win.

I'm gonna say it like this, 'cause I'm a person that didn't win a championship in the NBA, but I know, I think what made me a, you know what I'm saying, not, like you say, not a loser, you know what I'm saying? We weren't, everybody can't be like a world champion. I'm just saying, I just want— I know I wasn't a— We all want that. Nah, you definitely should want that. You should not ever stop working for it. But like, for me, I know you not a loser because of the, like he said, what you've overcome. And the way you work at it. You know what I'm saying? Like if you was out there dogging it, got a bag and sat on your butt and just looked like, you know what I'm saying? Collecting the check. Like, nah, you maxing out. You trying to leave it all out there.

All day.

And you frustrated that anybody is not trying to max out with you.

Yeah, that's all we can do.

So that's all you can do. You can only put everything you got into it. And then sometimes the chips fall this way. Sometimes they don't. Everybody know in this league and all sports to win a world championship, it ain't just— 'Cause it ain't just hard work, effort, it's luck, it's things happening, things going your way, it's all type of things. So that's like one of the hardest things in the world to do. So you should never feel like you a, you know what I'm saying, like a loser. Like you see, listen to Charles and all them, all the jokes, but like everybody know Barkley's not no loser or, you know, them guys that didn't win.

Like it's crazy. Charles Barkley's not a loser.

Killer players that didn't win a chip.

As long as you give it your all every night, if you put it all on the line, you put the work in and all that stuff, you can walk away from it, you know, with your chest up high, you know what I'm saying? No, I'm with you. And that's all that count. But we all proud of it. 'Cause everybody don't be in position to win championships. Everybody don't get a chance to be on the team. You got some players that play for bad teams their whole career. Every team that I went to my whole career, it was about starting over. So I ain't get a chance to play in the playoffs. None time, no time. And I used to see players in the playoffs and like, I know I'm better than dude. And he got the opportunity to play in the playoffs.

Opportunity.

And the world is looking at him and listening.

Opportunity.

But I can't dwell on that or beat myself up about it. I just gotta play the cards that they gave me.

Yeah.

And work hard at it.

Talk about how, like you say you from Tomball, like you being, I would say like a different type of superstar, singing country music, not being, you know what I'm saying?

Being me.

Afraid. Yeah. Like not being afraid of whatever that entails. Like you do you, whether it's like, I done seen you wilding out, going on the little ocean adventures in the wildlife and falling off the canoe.

I am who I am. You gonna like it, you gonna hate it, but I'm still gonna be me. I'm not changing who I am. I may change the clothes that I wear, the city I live in, but we do the same stuff. Like if you around the house, you ain't gonna wanna hang out with us. All we gonna do is play dominoes. Uno, some cards, watch the same movie over and over and over again.

Right.

So it's like, that's who he is. And then he gonna work on his game. That's me in a nutshell though, man. Like, I really don't give a fuck what anybody thinks of me. I really don't because I'm comfortable in my own skin and I like who I am. I like where I'm at. You know, and it's like, I say it all the time, like if you know me, if you around me, you know who I am, you know what I mean? That's like every time I come to Orlando, like, motherfucker, me and you link, like, yo, what's good? You know what I mean? Like now, whenever I'm in your city, like I'm be like, yo, what's good, man? Let's go have a drink. Let's go have lunch or something like that. Like, if you my people, you my people.

Right.

If you not my people, you don't know me. So I would expect you to, philipino vibe.

Filipino vibe, you don't really know nothing.

I get it, I understand it.

I'm not mad at you for it.

You sound exactly like us.

Yeah.

Like I really thought that.

That's what it is. When you understand that some people, like people gonna like you for no reason at all and people gonna hate you for no reason at all.

Don't even know you. Yeah. That's just life. They threw rocks at Jesus.

Man. Oh, as a perfect man. Like I know they gonna hate my ass. It'll be all right. I know they gonna hate me.

Let me ask you this. You know, you came from a poverty environment, you know, like us. And I know like when I, you be around people where I'm from, we in St. Louis, the farthest people done been is Chicago, which is 4 hours, Memphis, which is another 4 hours. And getting a chance to play basketball and this basketball taking me around the world and seeing stuff that people in my family would imagine seeing, eating some type of foods and all that. And just people, just, you never know who would have think that you would be cool with some type of celebrity or, oh, I got Kobe number, I can talk to Kobe or, I think Mark Wahlberg, the relationship you have with them.

I was with him last night for a very long time.

Like that's like somebody that we like all saw on TV, like from ever. And then it's like you like, he been a superstar, then you get to know him and get a relationship.

I just know coming from where you come, you came from to be in the luxury of all the stuff that you have, the luxury of—

And like you say, for you, you was a person who doubted yourself. You didn't see this. Like some people at a young age, like, oh, nah, he was like, he was on the COVID of Sports Illustrated. Like for you, you had to go, Juco this, no million dollars.

I couldn't even go to Sports Illustrated.

Yeah, no, none of this.

Ain't worried about it. Nah, man. I thank God every single morning and every night for the life that I have, for the people that I have in my life, man. Amen, yeah. And to know how fortunate and blessed that I really am, it's incredible. Like, there has to, like, God did this. You can't make this story up.

Word.

Of where I come from and how I got to where I am and the people that I'm able to break bread with and bring along with me, like, nah.

Yeah.

Like we're all unique and we all have our own stories.

Yeah.

But for me or for the next guy, like, come on, no, that is, it's not like that. So every day I wake up and I know that I could call this person or I could afford this food or I can go to this country.

Yeah.

Man, I didn't even know where the hell Paris, like I never looked at a map to be like, yo, Paris is in France and that's here. Or they're the one that gifted us That's the Statue of Liberty. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know all of that. And I'm going over there and they're teaching. I'm like, damn, never in a million years when I'm back in Tomball thinking like—

This little basketball boy.

What about like—

The little ball.

What about with your friends and family that's been in this small town their whole life and they starting to experience it with you eating the better foods and seeing this different water.

You know, sometimes you're country. You're not going for none of that. You want your steak well done. You not going with medium.

Jimmy, what that is you got over there, Jimmy?

Yo, my favorite is when somebody say, "Shit, no." That's the most country shit to me. Like, "Yo, how you want your steak? Medium?" "Shit, no, well done." Like, that shit is hilarious. Like, if you country, you can't help but to be country, bro. I'm telling you, "Shit, no" is some of the country shit I've ever heard in my life. But for real. But I'm glad that I get to bring some of my people along with me. And it's hard because you can't get used to it. I always tell everybody that the life that I live, that we're able to live, it's a fairytale. It's a utopia. There is some wrong, but there's a lot of right.

Yeah.

And too much of any good thing is a bad thing. I tell everybody that, man. That's real talk. Whether it's the jewelry or the food or the women or the way we travel, whatever it is, man, at any point in time it could be gone.

Yeah.

At any point in time it could be gone. So you have to enjoy, you have to live your life, but know that it ain't, it's not finna be like this forever.

No, that's a fact.

That's the hardest thing to try to get family to understand. I still say thank you. I'm still very grateful for everything that everybody does for me. So when somebody, and that's why I keep the people around I keep around, they'll let me know like, motherfucker, that's some bullshit. That's not you. That's what I like about my people.

Real black family.

Yeah, that's what I like about my people is they gonna let me know when I'm not being me. Like I expect when I do some bullshit, I want you to call and be like, yo motherfucker, that's some bullshit that you just did. Like I have my guys like that. And they can talk to me just like I would talk to them.

Yeah.

The way it's supposed to.

Let it go.

And it feel good when you know that person always got your best interest at heart. And it's okay to say I'm sorry or it's okay to be wrong. Ain't nobody to pay for it.

That's key what you said. 'Cause all of us been in this life, been in the league, doing all that. And we've had peers, teammates, opponents, whatever you wanna call it. And we see where they got the yes men around them. And they the ones just oblivious, got their head in the clouds, think they never wrong, think everything they do is the coldest and they perfect in this because all of they partners around them is yes men. They eat when you eat, they do what you do, they gotta wait for you on everything. It's like, that's the bull, you know what I'm saying? Like you say that we see that exist around and like, it's always cool for me to hear 'cause I feel like that's how we are. That's how we always were. We ain't never had people around us that was telling us BS or pumping our heads up. And that's why I feel like we were able to stay grounded within all of this. We never got to the point where we was feeling ourself for thinking we was better than anybody else because we in the NBA or we making some money.

And we never belittled the people that was around us. I don't get nothing out of trying to play my homeboy in front of no girls or in front of people.

And we've seen all of these wack things happen and it's like, yo, like I didn't fight. You too, we done been around MJ and he's the GOAT. He's the biggest, most money, whatever you wanna say, he's that. And like when you chill with him and you see how cool, how respectful, how mannerable, how he thank people, how he looking now, how sincere and all these different things.

Biggest thing.

Can't nobody else trip. Can't nobody else trip. Like, you tripping.

You know the part that I don't like about that? And it's tough. And social media does it a lot. I think you can name whoever, throw out a name. Throw out a name. Good dude. Mike, Steph, KD, whoever it may be. We're all human. So we all have bad days. We all have something that goes on in life that you can't tell. But just because they don't wanna deal with that right man, you never know what's going on in my life or in whoever's life.

In whoever's life.

So just because that one time, it's like, man, not today. They're not an asshole, man. You don't know what's going on in this person's life.

Not at all.

That's the part that bothers me. I get it that we're famous, that we make money, or that our face is on this billboard and that TV. But at the end of the day, man, you gotta understand that motherfuckers is human and go through life.

We deal with real life just like everybody else.

And the worst part about it is our shit is everywhere. So if something goes on in our life, hell, TMZ, it is on your website, it's on your TV show coming to a station near you. You gonna know what's going on.

5 miles over the speed limit, it's on TV.

Man, especially if your name is, if your face is on that billboard or you all.

And then the part they don't understand is that us being humans, we got the things that even with us being on the NBA, on all that, it's still things that happen in our lives that you don't know about. It could be affecting us that we going through that the world— like if we got a family member, there's something going on or anything, God forbid, anything like that that we've all been through in different scenarios, like, and the world don't know that and we in a crazy bad mood or dealing with it emotionally. Like, it's hard to do because you wanna, you wanna just this platform where it's right in your face.

I just said, I just said, you know, 90% of the game is mental.

Yeah.

Like, think of something is in your head and like, you just like, damn, I gotta think about this and I gotta play through that.

Right.

And my mental's already messed up.

Yeah.

It's hard to do. That's the part of the game that, you know, the fans can't see.

Yeah.

Is that, man, it's a mental grind. Your body, you can get over that physically. Like, oh, get in the ice, get in the ice bath, get a massage.

Like, 'cause your mental can be so tired and exhausted way more than your body.

And it just keeps adding onto it. Like, damn, mentally now I gotta remember what each one of these players do on top of that. At the crib is this, and I gotta deal with this person and that person.

Players who got wives, they have to know how to manage that with the players and all that stuff going through stuff. I'm telling you.

I'm telling you that part of it, that human aspect of the game and of life as a whole, This shit's hard.

I wanted to ask you, me and Q, coming from where we came from, we wore Jordans, we praised Mike, Mike was just everything to us, and we had an opportunity to be with Jordan Brand when a lot of players wasn't with Jordan Brand, and it was like a different day and age and era. Come from where you come from, I know you prayed for Mikes when you was younger.

Shh, I don't even remember that, what are you talking about? What are you talking about?

Where you at now and just be part of man, Jordan family, Jordan brand, the GOAT of all GOATs. You know what I'm saying? Like how do that feel? Like explain that more. Explain how you got signed to it and explain how hyped you was about—

I was super hyped. But you know, growing up we couldn't even afford Jordans.

Yeah.

Factually. So we just looked at it.

Same thing for us.

Right. And wished like one day, one day I'm gonna have it. I'm telling you. It's coming. I don't know when. One day it will be mine. So whenever I did leave a former brand that I was with, motherfucker, you know, I had the opportunity to sign on to Jumpman and man, it's been a great experience. I've met, you know, incredible people, Mike himself. And like he was saying, he's just an incredible human being. He does, it's like a family, man. It's—

Word.

Everybody is in constant contact and you know, it's great whenever we all get to get together over the summer.. But just to know, I used to grow up like, man, one of these days I just want an A pair, A pair of Jordans.

Straight up. And for you, you like one of the dudes that like, you know, that they, they freak stuff for. They show love. Like he don't just get the little run of the mill stuff that come out. He get rare. Like they send him, they gonna throw him some retros or some this or some that.

Like, we don't got it like y'all had it though. Y'all. Yeah. Y'all had it.

I know you loving how they —like how they overload you with the seasons of— Yeah, they overload, man. —all that with your everyday wardrobe, and damn, it be Jordan. You forget to buy something else.

Look, and then I get to, you know, lace my people.

Your fam.

Like I said, I love my people, yeah. And, you know, the organizations that I'm with, like, I think that the people behind our organization are so fucking important, man. Like, I try to speak and know everybody name, whether it be the ticket sales or the PR. Shout out to Pat.

In the office.

Pat Reese. I really don't fuck with you like that. I'm gonna say it on here, but you my guy on Mondays and Thursdays. So it's crazy because like, I'm grateful for those guys. Like, 'cause they gotta deal with everybody, whether it be media, us as players, fans. So I want them to feel, as appreciated and wanted as possible. 'Cause that's, that's what any job is. You just wanna be wanted, appreciated.

Make it feel like you are important.

Part of something. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

So I try to do that to the best. Like I, I love the people behind the scenes of everything that like y'all don't get y'all's name on the billboard or on a little banner at the game. But y'all do everything to make sure that we good. It's the least that we could do.

It don't work without 'em. It don't.

Don't work.

I see the DT name, like I don't care what's going on. None of this stuff don't work if everybody ain't doing they part.

I couldn't do it. I'm telling you, they be typing stuff on computers and doing stuff with cameras. Like man, I can't lift this mic up and down to tell you the truth.

Nah, I'm like that too. I could talk from the custodian to the CEO at the top and be cool and make them feel personal with me when we go through. Go from locker to locker, from team to team, the bald guys, the little guys is helping. I'm gonna have jokes and nicknames for them to make them feel like I'm at least paying them some attention and not just—

They human.

Yeah, yeah.

My thing is they're fans of the game. Huge. Yeah.

They some of the biggest fans. Like they be so hyped to see you. When the OGs come in, like leave them a pair of shoes, they be about ready to fall down, bro. They be about ready to die. You leave them a pair of kicks or something or anything.

When they go home, they watching the game.

Man, let me hurry up and get home.

—and they be getting there early.

Like, man, we got such and such coming today. Should they know the scout report before we do? You know who you got tonight, right? He left, he go left, he hit that double step back. Oh, you talking about James? Who I'm talking about? Like, they know, they know. So I'm grateful for those people too.

Hey, so when you first, like, I know, you know what I'm saying? Like, you came in, you know what I'm saying? You had to wait till you got like some big money. Like, when you got, What was like the first thing you got with like, man, I'm in the league, I'm about to like, hey, I'm about to, I ain't never thought I was gonna get this.

What was the first thing I got? Or when was it like?

The biggest purchase, not like no house or car, nothing like a big purchase that you got.

Something like right away or when is the moment it was like, damn.

When you was like, man, I'm gonna get my money for that. Yeah, when it was something like, you know what, like this ain't a need, this is like a want. Like where it was like, probably when you got your first big money where it was like, well, I could go do something do some stunt tests, like something where I was like, man, I never thought I'd be able to spend this type of money on something like this.

Mm-hmm. To tell you the truth—

But we all did it at some point. I know, I know, I know. But I wouldn't, like, I probably won't never do that again.

Yeah, I know. I would probably say it was after the Olympics. You know, I've been in the league a while, but that Olympic summer and winning gold—

And using that company.

You finna treat yourself.

He was in that company though, that's what time out, he got the part, he got in that company, he got that around that conference session. He was in that atmosphere.

But I had a little bit of money at the time and to tell you the truth, coming into the league, who is Rip, Rip was telling me, so we was playing Boo Ray, right?

Yeah. Who was that?

Yeah, Cam'Blair?

But hold on, hear me out though, hear me out. We was playing Boo Ray and so I'm a competitor, so I never wanted to get out and I was getting boom, they was beating my head to the white ball. Yeah, boom, boom, boom. So Rip was like, yo, let me tell you something, young fella. Rip was a big help to me now. Yo, pocket's not like everybody else's pockets at this table. Either get out or don't play or you gonna be in debt. So I started, what you call it, and paid attention to it. So now I'm going through the league and I'm paying attention. I was like, yo, I can't do that. I don't have that. I can't do that. I don't have that.

There you go.

We won a gold medal.

Uh-oh.

So my financial advisor says, I ain't gonna say the amount of money, but he says, yo, I'll give you X amount of money. I don't care how you spend, you can give it away if you want to, but go do what you're gonna do with it. So I got some cars and some jewelry.

Cars.

That was—

That's on the end. Jewelry.

So that was— Big purchase.

That was a good day.

Oh, great day.

Good time.

I spent it all in one day too. Yeah, it don't take me that long to make some bread. You know what I'm saying?

That's history, pop. It don't take me that long. Nobody ever did that before in your family.

Man. And then I got another moment, which was great too. We was in Paris and I was with, like I said, now I'm fortunate to be able to be friends with D-Wade, with Mel. And we're all in Paris at Fashion Week. Let alone, I never thought that I would be there with those guys in Paris at Fashion Week.

Right.

I get traded to Minnesota and I got a trade kicker. And so my agent picks up the phone and he's calling me and we're sitting there and we're playing spades and D-Wade's sitting next to me, you know, we're teammates in Chicago at the time. My agent calls and he's texting me the whole time, but I didn't want them to think I was cheating. So I wasn't checking my phone and I pick up the phone and say, yo, what's up? I get up and my agent was like, you finna get traded to Minnesota. So I'm tapping D-Wade, yo, I'm finna get traded to Minnesota. He was like, man, shut the fuck up. No, you're not. And he's playing cards and the TV's on. And you know, nowadays, as soon as something big happened, ding ding, it's coming up on your phone.

Right.

So I'm like, all right, man, I'm trying to tell you. We playing spades and D-Wade was like, damn, you just got traded to Minnesota. I just fucking told you that. Like, and so, you know, I get up, Talked to my agent. He was like, "Yo, you gotta trade Kicker for X amount of dollars." Right. He was like, "Spend it all, fuck it." And so I go back to the table and I'm like, "Yo, I just got traded, but I gotta trade Kicker." My agent said, "Fuck it, spend it." Says, "Oh, bet, dinner on you, dinner on you." So I was like, "Okay, cool." So we going to one of my favorite restaurants that Mark Wahlberg introduced me to. L'Ami Louis in Paris. So we go in there, we did that.

There's some top shelf stuff going on.

We did that. We had a night, man. It was a good one. It was the first time being traded. So I took it kind of hard, you know what I mean? But I was fortunate to be there with Melo.

And they kept you in good spirits and they gave you a toast to it.

Just keep doing what you doing. But we had a good night. We drank a lot of wine, had some good food. That was another— Some expensive wine, I bet. Melo snuck out with the best bottle too. I'm never forgiving him for that. He ain't slick. I still remember it.

Straight up.

Stay mellow.

Who do you, coming up, like I know you start learning about this game and who did you see that you start patterning your game off? You start seeing moves or you be like, man, I liked how he played or—

Tracy McGrady.

I watched him. T-Mac.

Problem.

Problem. We guarding. You know?

Yeah, we aware.

Yeah, I didn't have to guard, —T-Mac. And funny story is, where was I at? I think it was in Atlanta at the time. And so I'm in Chicago, I'm a rook, and you know, like T-Mac, when he was in Houston or Atlanta, whatever, like he was my favorite player. And I subbed into the game one time, like this was, I think we was up by like 20 and T-Mac was in the game for Atlanta. And coach looks, yo, you got T-Mac. I'm like, what? Like, even though like there's 50 seconds left in the game and we're up by 20, I'm just like, damn, like shit.

You going with T-Mac.

I had all your posters on my wall back then. You know what I mean? And you telling me this is who I get to guard or have to guard. But that's who I modeled my game after in high school. I would shoot just like he would shoot. Wear his sneakers. Like he was a, yeah.

He had a 30. He had 30.

What's wrong with you?

He had 30 in his pocket. Every time he seen me, I seen 30.

Man, with ease too. Not saying that you can't guard him, but like he was a problem for everybody.

Yeah.

Including other people sitting at this table.

I won wars. I feel like I had to guard him straight up. I won wars against him. Like, like it's games that I, that he had 30 on me and I block his shot for game for us to win the game. You know what I'm saying? That's as a defender, you know, it's, it's about one, one possession. Ain't about— they gonna get the ball so much, so they gonna score. They— oh yeah, yeah, for sure. You just gotta win the one that count, you know what I'm saying?

Talking about like when he give you that look of respect, I get that look. Yeah, that's what I—

that's it.

I used to play him hard.

All of them know, because, because you know me, I was really ready to get scrappy. So we know it was gonna be a war that way. It was gonna— I was gonna—

Chicago would do that too.

I was gonna make it a war one way or the other. If you was way nicer than me, I was gonna go to my special move and just foul you real hard and try and intimidate you and see what we was gonna get from there.

Yeah. Uh, we, uh, wanted to just do some, uh, just like some fun silly stuff of about '90s and now.

Okay. Hit me with something.

All right. Uh, haircuts, better in the '90s or better now?

I'm gonna say now. I'm gonna say now.

It's a lot of nappy head motherfuckers around.

Exactly. And I'm one of them. So I gotta say now. Yo, relax. Relax, relax. I'm getting a haircut after this.

What would you call that? 'Cause like my 14-year-old, he wants to do this with his hair. He wants to cut the sides and sweep in. I call him the Wakanda Forever. I don't really know what they are.

So what'd you call it before Wakanda, before Black Panther?

I didn't know what to call it. I just called it nappy head box.

Back in the day. That's what I called it.

My pops done would've slapped me upside my head. I tried to go outside like that. Like, what's wrong with you?

Shit, no. You don't let it go. My momma would kick my ass.

I gotta go with now, but I don't know. I like the look. Yeah. You know, people getting their hair braided up top, none on the sides no more. Yeah. I'm rocking with it now 'cause I'm in with it now. I didn't do the high tops. I didn't do none of that.

Now it's kind of like y'all, like they still retro and now too. So it's kind of all of it. So I feel you.

I mean, it all come back around anyways, just like clothes. Clothes do.

So maybe in a couple years we'll stop wearing—

You got the ball.

Y'all gotta stop wearing tight clothes though. That's the player fashion. Was it better then or now?

Now, man. I want them big ass clothes.

Skinny jeans.

I'm not rolling with the skinny jeans now, bro.

Y'all be wearing capris and culottes and all type of stuff now. Like, I didn't— come on, man. Salmon color pants and whatnot. Like, but that shit hot, you feel me? Like D-Wade wearing straight looking like, you know what I'm saying? Like, bro, like y'all, and then, then I text him after this, what he hit me with. I text like, bro, what is you doing? Send him a picture. He like, I do it because I could do this. Nah, bro, I'm not about— nah, that's nothing that he would say. Y'all can't do this.

That's why y'all understand.

Like, nah, bro, I'm not— you just not just about to get away with that answer to be like, I do it because I can do this.

Like, he definitely said that.

What? You know he did.

Like, like, man, the clothing these days Crazy rap music in the '90s or now?

I'm going within the '90s without one. Yeah. Nice. Yes. Real rap B. Ooh! You had some people that was just going out saying their names and songs too. It wasn't no subtle— Man.

What's your top 5 albums?

My top 5 albums? He gonna come with it right here. Hey hey hey he asked me go ahead. He asked me my top 5 albums.

Albums.

Go ahead.

Your top 5 albums.

First off.

No genre, no genre. Your top 5 albums you want.

I just got through talking about this the other day and you can say what you want, but you asked me the question. Justin Bieber's Purpose album is, hey, I don't give a damn that you look away. I'm just saying he said my top 5 albums.

Bieber fever. The Biebs.

Yo, that shit fire. Lauryn Hill.

Okay, I'm rolling.

Fire. Luke Bryan, you know who Luke Bryan is? Country artist. He got a Crash My Party, tell you what, check it out. I don't know. That one fire. I actually like Drake's Take Care album.

Okay, Drake's winning.

I got one more. I got one more. I got one more. Who I've been listening to as of lately.

Is it a rap artist? 'Cause I don't think you named one.

Hey, hey, hey, this is my 5. It's my 5. Wayne, the whole Carters.

Oh yeah, the Carter Collection.

Yeah. I would say the first one or the second one is my favorite one. So I'll put that in. You didn't, let's just get this out the way. Y'all didn't sway me to say that. That was in there. I just, I had to remember it. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm with that. I'm with that.

Gotta rap artist out of—

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Where you at? Where you at?

I would, '90s or now, or you gotta throw in that kind of like the 2000s. Cause we was for real the Ice Age. I was gonna say Players Jewelry then or now.

Then or now. Then. Yeah. Y'all was— It was stupid. Flip it. It's crazy.

The Ice stage, people was coming in with like, come on, dawg, remember?

No.

Remember Keith Daniels with the whole, he had his face piece, man, kept it with the drips and everything. It was for 4 Rock. Yeah.

For 4 Rock.

Back then, y'all used to do it. And it was funny because now when you look back at it, you'd be like, that's just ridiculous and obnoxious. But you look back at it, it was like, that's what the times was.

AI had us tripping, bro. AI had us all going in.

He set the tone.

We was going hard, bro.

He set the tone.

Y'all seen AI, yo, I was like, I gotta do, you know.

I think he changed the game. Like how Steph basically changed the game with shooting threes. Like he did it in an off-the-court way with the braids, with the jewelry, with all of that stuff. Like AI did that.

Speaking of that, like, so what you saying? Like we got a question. Like who do you think was the bigger, like had the bigger impact on the culture? On the culture. AI or LeBron? It's a tough one, right? Because it's, it's different, but it's still huge on both hands, but it's just, it's kind of different.

That's a— man, they both do so much, man.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Both do indeed, just in different ways, but if the impact is—

I don't think you can, I don't think you can really pick one or the other. It's like the whole Kobe, MJ, LeBron debate. Like, I don't compare nobody just because, like—

So you can't pick one of them?

I'm not saying I can't pick one, but I don't compare. Like, this person can do that and this person can do that. I can give you my opinion, but I, um, I don't think that you can compare because I'm fortunate enough to be able to see LeBron do what LeBron is able to do and look back and be like, damn, MJ was a problem. And I never had to guard like Kobe, Kobe.

Nah, I'm saying that the Kobe, like, like we, when we got drafted, we 2000 draft. So that's year one of the, the 3-peat. So, so trust me, like playing him, you remember the scene on Love and Basketball when she guarding, it's like the camera, like that's how it used to be like that. Guarding that Kobe, that was the Kobe where it was like, he'll do anything. Like for real, this the Kobe that was windmilling under the rim, shooting left-hand threes, doing anything.

Yeah.

Like literally doing, this was the most athletic, like he was, it was crazy, bruh.

So that's why I can't, I never compare the three, just like I can't pick, you know, who changed the culture, AI, like, man, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for all three that they are as a player.

Yeah.

D-Wade too. And everybody else that I've got a chance to play with, play against, or watch. Like, it's just like, man, it's an honor to be able to see these guys do what they do night after night after night against the best.

Yeah.

Against, we gotta stop this guy. You know what? We gonna double team him. Damn, double team not work. Yo, triple team him. —shit, that shit empty the bench. Everybody go try to stop him.

Get it out his hand.

You know what I'm saying? Like that shit's crazy.

So I feel like, I feel like you a person as a defender, you didn't got a chance to play against these guys in they prime. And I wanna know when I name them, I wanna know in your opinion, like put them in order, like who you would rather see, like who's the easiest to who's the hardest to guard. I know all of them hard.

Yeah.

But I wanna know like just in your opinion.

If you had somebody coming at me trying to score, for fucking 90.

Nah, nah, not like that. Not like that.

Oh, he didn't put me over him. I'm gonna show that motherfucker. That is kind of true though. Exactly. So you're not—

You can deal with it. You gotta talk to him.

You right, you right.

You straight, you ready? Talk to him.

So you gotta do 5. Can you just do like, do 3.

Do 3 or 4.

Do 3.

Let's do, okay, let's do 3. Let's do 3. Let's do LeBron.

Okay. KD.

KD.

Kawhi. Nah.

They all the same position. So you gotta throw in like a guard guard.

Yeah, let's do James Harden. Harden, KD, LeBron.

Harden, KD, LeBron. It'll probably be, respect to all of those guys.

Right, we talking respect.

Please don't try to score 90 on me. One, KD, as I said early on, like—

He's the hardest. Fuck.

Right. Especially with the team that he on now.

Facts.

2, probably Bron. 3 is—

Why, why, why? Explain that. Why Bron is 2 over Jimmy Butler?

Because with Bron, man, like he is just a, I mean, the motherfucker's 6'2". Hello. Like 270 pounds running a 4-flat. Like.

He said 4-flat.

Right. You gonna step in front of that? No. And now he hitting jump shots. He passes the ball on time, on target. He can set the screen. He can come off the screen, like everything. I mean, don't get me wrong. James is tough too.

That's interesting with him, him being third in that with the run he on right now.

Yeah.

Basically being not able to be guarded.

Yeah. You feel like them people just had to green light like James, it really would be a more—

Well, they had that mentality. Like, just that—

But you know, I think, what you call it? And the reason I say this is because KD, he guards.

No, LeBron is a total problem.

You know what I'm saying? Same thing. I think James can guard, I just think that, I mean, I get it. I mean, you're asked to do a lot.

Everything. Yeah, he's exerting all this energy on offense.

Offense, man, and that's how that team that he's on has opportunity to win games.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like defense is a lot of energy that you spending. Fucking go down there and be short on all your jump shots. Like, it's hard to do. So I get it. I'm not, and everybody got their own style of game., and you know, the team you are is built around whatever player it may be. But that's, that's the order that I put them in. All great Hall of Fame players though. Don't get me wrong. But that's just, just my take, my opinion on it.

How, how is it to be, you know what I'm saying, with the team you got now? Like, it's like, you look at a talent like Ben, like that kid is a problem. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, as big as he is, being able to play the point, And then you got, you got, you know, obviously JJ is one of the best shooters in the league. You got Big Embiid, who's probably the most dominant big fella we got going right now. It was just like, how do you feel like when you look around and you looking around like, man, I got, I got something to really work with. Like, we could be a problem.

It could be special. We can, and it looks good on paper, but we gotta go out there and we gotta do it. Right. I think everybody gotta be on the same page in so many aspects of the game. I think everybody has to do a good job of knowing where they fit in and how to get in and playing their role. It's crazy to think that you know what you're gonna get out of your quote unquote superstars, but it's the role players and the roles that they play that are really gonna win you the championships. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. The second that Draymond decides that, hey, I'm gonna shoot 12 threes per game like Steph.

It's over.

Not the same team. But I think he does a great job and that's why I respect him for it. Does a great job of like, oh, I'm open, but damn, Steph.

Right, I'm finna get hit.

Or Klay or— Nah, word up. You know what I mean? Or how many times does he dribble the ball down the middle of the paint? He could probably shoot and make a floater Jimmy Butler.

Jimmy Butler handoff or something. Boom.

Hits somebody.

Or lob to a big.

Yeah, whatever. Like boom, you know what I mean? Then he goes in and he just guards. You know, you can say what you will, but I do respect that part of his game. And going back to your point, like we can be really, really good. We have all the talent in the world. We just gotta buy into everything that we're doing on both ends of the floor. And that's when we gonna take it to another level. Man, you know, we, we watch film and we be like, damn, if everybody was on the same page just on, on, on this particular play on offense or on this particular play on defense. It's like if we all knew that he was gonna do that. And so we rotated this way or we put our hand like that's how we're supposed.

Yeah.

That was crazy.

That was big to me when I played and something that I didn't even know I was doing, but I was doing knowing my personnel, me being a versatile player, having to know positions from one all the way way to the 5 and then be guarding everybody. It was like I knew my whole personnel. I knew what he was gonna do. I knew if I, he on the post and oh, he, he, he's shooting up on him trying to deny him the ball, he gonna spin for the lob.

Yeah.

Like that personnel. Once y'all know each other personnel, I know what he can do. I know how to get him the ball. I need JJ to get the ball behind the 3-point line. I'm not putting Ben in position that he's uncomfortable. I'm putting putting them in the best position to win. That's why I love that with you and Ben, like I told you, that sealing under the basket, both of y'all be doing it. Y'all be hitting each other with them quick, solid, strong baseball passes, getting it down there, trying to get that easy layup.

You gotta, you know, you gotta try to play to your strengths and everybody else's and try to cover up everybody's weaknesses at the same time. That's part of, you know, what I say, being a good teammate and knowing what your teammate is capable of. Capable of. But with that being said, everybody gotta be on the same page no matter what. So you gotta know, oh, if he's in this spot, he is getting this ball. Or if he's here on a defensive end and if he gets beat or if he's getting posted up, I'm going to be there. That's the, that's the next progression for any great, you know, wanna win championship team.

How does it feel to come to two organizations Situations like you went to Minnesota and you with the 76ers and you have this responsibility to have the game on the line mostly all the time. Yeah, you know, you call some plays at the end of the game for a few players, but 75 to 80% of the time, that last play at the end of the game is gonna be called for you. Mm-hmm. And you got the responsibility to miss that shot, take that shot, and get all the glory work from that shot. So what's, how do that feel to have two organizations back to back? Like they label you as a, a game finisher.

Yeah.

That's part of your stats.

I, I love it, you know, because my teammates, my coaches, the organization have that much confidence in me to, to take that shot late in the game. But also to know that if I'm not open, I might pass it to the open guy.

No, 'cause sometimes in that position you got to be selfish.

It depends on how I'm feeling.

I remember hitting you after, who was that you hit the game winner on early?

Just came back.

'Cause it was right after we had had lunch in Orlando and then y'all went and played.

Charlotte. Charlotte.

Charlotte. And that's right, 'cause Kemba was going gang gang. That's what you say, you like, Kemba went crazy, but I got the shot off, man.

But Kemba, 6'9". Boom, right there. But like you said, it's about the one play.

He said that. I seen that, but you got that block and saved it back inbound.

I seen that.

Get one, you know what I'm saying? That was one of the game right there.

So man, but I think I work on my game enough to know, I think at any certain time I could probably shoot any shot and feel comfortable whenever I let it go, that it's gonna go in. Not saying that they all gonna go in, but I know when I get to my place or my spots on the floor, how effective that I can be. And I think they, all my former teams have done a great job of making me feel comfortable on both ends of the floor. But at the end of the game, man, it's on you. You know what I mean? I like that.

You're back to basketball.

It's driving.

Oh, I love it. Comfortable in it. That's a good thing right there.

I'm gonna take it and, you know, make or miss. I live with that. We live with that. But I think for the most part we're okay with it.

So that's what's up.

It's big that you don't beat yourself up about the misses. You know, you get some people who pretty much—

MJ missed one, at least one.

Yeah. I feel like LeBron kind of got caught up in that early on where he'll feel comfortable comfortable now in his career to take them last shots and don't care if he hit or miss it. He's just confident in taking it now. But I feel like early on, so much pressure was on him that he kind of shied away. You know, like you say, sometimes, yeah, I'll pass the ball, but sometimes you want your player, I want my best player to be selfish in that.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, Jordan could have passed it to whoever, but sometimes I want him to be selfish sometimes in the taking that shot. We dependent on him?

I mean, I look at it, I look at it two different ways. It, man, to tell you the truth, it all just depends. It depends on how you're playing, everybody else's strength, and more anything, man, if the person you pass it to can handle that, you know what I mean? Like if you pass that ball to a rookie and he misses that shot, like think about the mental.

Destroys his mental or something, yeah.

—so you gotta know that. But if it's the right play, you kinda gotta do it. Do what you're saying, yeah. And if he miss it, it's kinda like, yo, that's part of the game.

Yeah.

That right there is the right play. That's the right shot. If we do it over again, I threw it to you for a reason, or I threw it to you for a reason, or that person threw it to you for a reason. But you gotta always look out for your teammates. That's why a lot of the times I will take the shot because one, One, I know that I can make it. And two, if I miss it, oh well. I can ride with it. I'm gonna get another opportunity, I guarantee it. I'm gonna get another opportunity.

You'll see it again.

So.

Live to fight another day. Yeah.

All right, man, we definitely appreciate you coming through.

Appreciate you, family. Come on, come on. You know what I'm saying? My guys.

Keeping it real with us and you know what I'm saying? Came through, rock with us, man. Jimmy Butler Iii, Philly 76ers in the building.