Jimmy Butler on His Falling-Out With Philly and Being a "Villain" in the NBA | The JJ Redick Podcast

We're now joined by my ex-teammate, Jimmy Butler of the Miami Heat. Jimmy, first of all, we haven't had a proper cheers. Congrats to you.

Thank you, brother.

On a great contract. Ended up in a great situation.

Oh, yeah.

All-Star this year. You guys are rolling.

It's solid.

I'm happy for you, man. Thank you, man. I told you this when I saw you in November.

I know.

But I'm super happy for you.

And for Duncan. You told me you were super happy for Duncan too.

Why was I super happy for Duncan?

He did, like, he shot a lot of threes in the game. It was like, damn, that was impressive.

Oh, he didn't make a lot that game.

He did something.

I think he shot like 15 threes in the game or 18 threes in the game or something crazy like that. I said, tell Duncan congrats.

And then you said, I'm happy for him or something like that. I gotta go back to my text messages. It's something. But you like me and Duncan on that one.

Who's the young guy that you have taken under the wing this year?

Tyler. Tyler Herro.

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about this.

He's a lot like you, man.

A lot like me?

In the sense of like, you're like a Black white guy to me. Like your stees, like how you go about shit. Like it's just like, when I first met JJ, I was like, this motherfucker went to sleeve? I was like, oh yeah, JJ got some shit to him. Tyler is the exact same way.

Right.

He can't swim, which is stereotypical. So I was like, man, when I first met him, Like even his mannerisms, the way he talks. And the part that really pisses me off, he got two younger brothers and they are just like him.

So there's three of them running around?

Yeah.

From the outside, I don't know Tyler, I've never met him. I haven't even spoke to him, but his swag is crazy.

It's crazy. It's crazy.

Just, it's different.

And he loves it. That's why I love him.

His fits are crazy, man.

He doesn't care. He's him no matter if he's in Miami, in Milwaukee, anywhere in the world, Tyler's gonna be Tyler.

Did you know right away, first time you met him?

I knew he was gonna be good because the way that he works, he works as though he's been in the league for so many years. But with that being said, like from day one, Coach Pat and Coach Bo was just nailing that in his head. Like, you're gonna work. We don't care that you are the, What's Tyler, the 13th pick? We don't care. We don't care that you were one and done. Like, you're gonna work, you're gonna earn everything here. And he's done that. He's done that.

You guys have a lot of good players. I mean, they have, the Pelicans have a little bit of the same issue where you have too, it's almost like you have too many players for the spots you have on the court. Like Duncan is another example of this.

But before you say that, were they good players before winning?

Yeah, I mean, it's a good question.

I don't know, I'm asking you. I'm on your podcast now, I'm asking you questions.

What you think?

I don't know, what do you think?

Y'all had good players, or the Pelicans got good players in Brandon Ingram, Jrue Holiday, Lonzo, Zion. Right, right, right. These guys are, you're talking top 5 picks, right? Like they're supposedly supposed to be the good players.

Yeah.

If we are, obviously if we're, I don't know, 20 and however many, are they still good players?

Are you saying that Miami Heat, like you guys are like all underdogs? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. Yeah. I would love to say that, but we do have really good players. Don't get me wrong. But I'm saying because we're winning, everybody gets the recognition that they deserve. Oh, for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

So if we were losing— But there's like this, I feel like it's, especially since like LeBron left, there's like this mentality and it's in every, it's, it's, there's an underlying sort of theme with like this underdog thing and this grit thing in every quote that I read on Hoops Hype that comes out of a Miami Heat person's mouth.

This shit is real. It's real. And I think Spo says it the best. This shit ain't for everybody. And it's not. The way that we move, the way that we operate is not for everybody and everybody can't make it. But for the people that—

Give me like a real world example of that. Like what in terms of training or preparation that's different? Well, you also played for Tibbs too.

Exactly. So, you know, I kind of got a little glimpse of it, but no matter if you're on a minimum contract or a max contract, Everybody's running that conditioning test at the beginning of the year. No matter if you're on a minimum contract, a max contract, everybody's showing up to the plane in heat gear. Like it's the smallest things that just show who that organization is. I mean, come on, Coach Pat is in every practice, at every home game. He's on a lot on the road, but it's like all hands on deck. Everybody's in this thing. And we're not ever talking about—

But you have to get, this is the NBA, you have to get buy-in from the best players.

Yeah.

So you buy into that?

Yeah.

From day one?

Day one. I like it.

You like it?

I like it. I like militant shit like that though. Like, fucking do it.

Right.

I like it. I like when everybody is able to be on the same page and nobody's more special than the next guy. Now don't get me wrong, there are levels to it. I'm not saying like, me and this guy do everything the exact same way? No. But majority of the time, that, that really do be the case. Like, we don't, we don't care who you are, what name you have. We're all doing it this way.

Are you surprised? I mean, Tyler's one, Duncan's another, who we're gonna have come down a little bit later. Are you surprised with some of these young guys that they've been able to sort of keep up with you? Because you're like, you'll whip the— you'll kick their ass. Like, you'll whip them into shape, and Spo will, and Pat, whatever, like that.

And so, like, to your point about not being forever, for everybody.

Like, I think for certain young players, you know, no matter where you were drafted or where you put in college or whatever, there's a learning curve about like, okay, now you're in the big leagues and you're with guys who are gunning for you all the time. Like, do you think that that's just the culture that was like, they're here, they're here for a reason mentally?

Yeah, without a doubt. But you gotta also think like, nothing really was, was handed to these guys. We're not talking about Nothing against number 1 picks, number 2 picks, nothing against those guys. 'Cause I was a number 3 pick. So I can't ever be mad at that. I was actually number 30. I was like, what the fuck? I know I was saying number 3 though.

It just fits.

It just fits. So the guys that we have, we legit think like, man, this guy, this is who you picked before me. And so we just, we go about everything every day like that.

What do you think it is about like the Heat though that they're able to identify guys like that?

I don't know.

'Cause they're like searching them out.

But Bam is like that too.

Bam is definitely like that.

Bam is the guy.

Unbelievable. Nah, yeah. Bam got some shit to him too. Like he takes a lot of things personal, but in the right way. And Bam is a lot like me when he will cuss you out and he's cussed me out on countless amounts. Of on countless occasions because I may not be doing what he knows that I'm capable of. Not saying that it wasn't good.

Yeah.

But you got another gear and I know you can do it. I've seen you do it. And we expect you to do that every single game. And I think that's our biggest thing right now. Like we have some big time wins. And then we think that, yo, we're good, we're good, we're good. And we lay an egg so many times. Not saying you can't be beat by anybody in this league, but that's what I'm saying. Like we're expected to do this every single day, every single game. So when we don't, we're disappointed in ourselves. That's the worst. That's the worst. Like Spo don't even have to say nothing. He just come in the locker room and just look and we're all like, fuck.

Have you ever had a locker room or a culture like this before in your career?

Nah. At no point? Nothing like this. Nope.

Or like early Chicago days? Mm-mm.

Not like this.

Really?

Not like this, yeah. Chicago was way different because whenever I got to Chicago, you're talking MVP Rose, Joe Kim in his prime, Lou Will in his prime. So like those guys were moving way differently than a lot of other people. And with that being said, back in the day, like when I came into the league, the partying scene was like, out of this world. So I'm looking at it like, you know, these guys are at the absolute peak of the NBA and I can see how you could easily get lost in this thing. So it scared me. I was like, man, everything's right there at your fingertips. If you get lost in the mix of going and doing that and doing that, pretty soon you could be out of the league. And that's why I respected those guys so much 'cause they stayed— Yeah. In like tip-top shape and stayed away from that. Or if they did go do whatever, nobody ever knew about it.

Right. You think the party was crazier then than it is now?

Man, yeah.

Titan 2.

Without a doubt.

That's super interesting. I feel like it would be the— Why do you think that is?

I feel like most guys—

Back then though, I think—

Social media has something to do with it for sure. Phones, like just everything. Agreed. You don't wanna be bothered, especially like, night before a game, or even if you're staying in a city after a game, like you just don't wanna be bothered. Like, so you're gonna, chances are you're gonna go to dinner and have some wine.

Yeah.

Or participate in other recreational things.

But I think, I think it's more so like the league is so young now. So a lot of these guys just play video games and you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Back in the day, you grown men was in the league, like throughout, the entire roster on teams, like, I don't know what the average age would be, but majority of everybody was of drinking age. So you could go have a beer if you drink beer, have wine, hell, have 3 shots of tequila if you want. So I definitely think it was way more drinking and other shit going on back then.

It's interesting. It feels like it's like we're on the, because they said that they would've said that about the generation before them as well. Obviously the NBA in the '70s and '80s was way crazier than anything that happened. When you came into the league.

And so it's like, it's on the— Social media fucked it all up.

It's on the better trajectory 'cause of the phone.

What fucked it up?

Social media.

Oh.

Fucked it all up.

It really did.

It really did. Yeah, you can't do nothing no more. Camera's always on you.

You can't, also you can't party and do your 3:30 AM workouts. What, I wanna ask you a question. If I'm working out at 9:00 AM, but then I go really hard.

Yeah.

Does that mean I'm a hard worker?

Yeah, you are a worker.

I'm a hard worker?

Yeah. You can work hard at whatever point that you wanna work hard at. 3 PM? 3 PM? That's pushing it.

Is it too late in the day?

That's pushing it.

3 PM.

And if I wait till 3?

What are you doing before 3 PM?

I have no idea. I don't do that.

I know. I'm just saying like, I don't. The reason I do it, one, I saw Mark Wahlberg do it and I give him a lot of credit because that motherfucker has everything.

Yeah.

He has it.

So was it legit with him, the 2:30 AM?

Yeah.

'Cause I saw that schedule. The schedule was insane.

He did the sketch with Corden.

But I never know how much of it is like, I'm just putting it out there, how much is actually real.

He one of the realest human beings I've ever been around. And he works every single day like that motherfucker has nothing. And it's inspiring. It's so many other words. So when I saw that shit for the first time, I was like, look, man, this man is doing it and he got everything and I don't got shit. There's gotta be something in it.

Yeah.

And now that I do it, like, it's habit, and I got the rest of my day to do whatever I want.

So what's the, how does, hold on, what does he do to enjoy himself?

Who, Mark?

Yeah.

Be around his people, one.

Okay. Drink wine.

But he really does enjoy working, whether he's reading books or reading scripts, figuring out his car dealership, as you could go to his social media, check out Mark Wahlberg Chevrolet. They got some type of deal going on. I saw it. Uh, what? He do?

Mark Wahlberg has a Chevrolet dealership?

Yeah. Wow, he's hustling, man.

He's got his hands in everything. I saw, uh, he, by the way, he's fucking everything up for every watch collector because he's buying everything. Him, Kevin Hart, and Ellen. You like— you— I used to have a hookup with the Patek and Rolex place in Beverly Hills. No, they get everything. They're buying everything. It's sick.

So are they just stashing them?

No, Mark wears—

And K-Rob.

Mark and K-Rob wear them, yeah. It's unbelievable.

And he got me in that as well. Like, Watches and Wine, that's from that guy. Now keep in mind, I don't do it the way they do it 'cause my money's not the way that their money is, but I dabble in it a little bit.

For sure.

Yeah.

It's good to dabble.

Yeah, it's good to dabble.

What was the original connection with Mark? I know you told me one time, but—

Man, he was in Chicago filming for Transformers. And then he wanted to play basketball with like his guys. So they put him in the Berto Center, which was where the Bulls used to practice way up north. Now we're down, we, now they're downtown. I do that all the time. Like I'll sign 21 on stuff, 22 on stuff, 23 on stuff. Like— Yeah. But yeah, that's where they used to practice. And he was in there filming one day and then they called me back to go shoot with him. And ah, man, we end up hooping. Next day he's like, "Yo, come to the set." And then I go to the set. Then he was like, "Let's go watch the boxing match together." I go watch the boxing match. And then, man, just like a for real friendship just blossomed. Out of nowhere, but he's, you know, he works so hard where he's from. People not supposed to make it out, he did. He's always back there in the community, loves his family, his brothers, everybody.

He's had a crazy career.

Yeah.

You think about the rapping and then—

The modeling.

The modeling and then all the different types of roles. He's not a one-note actor. He plays— comic, plays action, he plays drama, did producing. Did you watch Entourage when you were like coming up?

Nah, I didn't. I mean, I've seen it, but like—

Yeah, that was a whole thing that even though he wasn't even in it, that put him in a lane for, for a certain type of audience because they're like, okay, I don't know much about Mark Wahlberg, but I assume his life is like that.

And it's, it's something like that. Like, obviously they're, they're losing face off everybody.

Next episode we're gonna do a power rankings of Mark Wahlberg roles.

Look, Shooter is one to me.

Oh my gosh.

Shooter, I don't care what you say.

That movie—

Bob Lee Swagger is terrible.

Get the fuck out of here.

Don't tell Mark I said that.

No, Shooter is a born-on-the-road movie. When that movie's on TV, you watch it.

It won like 30 Oscars.

No kidding.

Holy fuck.

Did you ever see Departed?

Yeah. That's a good movie too.

Yeah, that's a good movie.

Departed actually won best movie.

It's a good movie.

Two.

Unlike the other one.

Two as in— As well.

Also, Mark was great in Shooter. I can't say the rest— for the rest of the cast, I'm just not—

that's all that matters. Bob Lee Swagger, he will shoot your face off.

The Fighter. The Fighter is like one of the best.

Christian Bale.

Yeah, that movie's crazy good.

He's Batman, so I like him.

Yeah.

Tell us a little bit about this wine. This is, this is only the second time I've ever drank while doing the podcast. The other time I did was with Kyrie Irving in London, and I said that I didn't believe in dinosaurs. So hopefully you said that.

I did.

Oh yeah, we were taping. He said the Earth was flat.

We were taping at 2 AM, 2 AM after a game.

We were a little delirious. Um, tell us a little about, about the wine.

About the—

this wine? This specific wine?

Yeah. I don't know too much shit about it. I told you that. Like, I can't— I can barely pronounce the motherfucker. I just know that it's from my birth year. Okay, it's, uh, it's from Bordeaux. All right, uh, that's basically all I got for you as of right now. Okay, I'm still learning though. I'm still— it's beautiful— studying up on it.

Thank you. It's beautiful.

I'm still studying up on it because I think that's a big thing that I want to do, uh, after my career is like start my own winery, legit, like go y'all never see me again type.

Like you're going to be the farmer, you're doing— you're winemaker, you're gonna hire a winemaker? Yes.

Okay, don't, don't do that. Don't, don't.

I'm just saying winemaking is farming, it's one and the same.

Yeah, but I'm not— yeah, I'm not gonna I don't do it. Like, you have a podcast, but you don't make the fucking mics. See what I'm getting at? Exactly. I don't do that.

What do you do— like, what would you be doing right now in New Orleans if you weren't taping with us? Like, what do you do on the road?

I'm playing dominoes with a few teammates. Man, other than that, I read a lot of books. I read a lot of books just to, like, update myself, especially on the wine stuff.

Yeah.

And then me and my trainer, James, he's always passing me different books to read. And it's—

What's the best thing recently?

To me? Look, I stick by this, uh, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari. Man, look, you read that book, it got you thinking about everything in life. And I read that shit, I started selling everything. For real. Because it's like, you don't need all of this stuff.

Yeah.

You really don't.

You don't.

You really don't.

You don't. Just because you can get it doesn't mean that you really need it.

Was there something you did when you signed your contract?

This one?

Yeah.

Nah. I did the same shit.

Yeah.

Oh, well, I mean, I celebrated a little bit differently. And I was turning 32, so it kinda—

Where'd you go?

I was in Barcelona.

Oh, nice.

I was in Barcelona, and me and the guys just—

You took a PJ?

Yeah.

Thanks for the invite.

No doubt. Look, let's go on the plane.

If there was room on the plane, I need a fucking invite, man.

Podcast, y'all hear me? Y'all see this? Let's go to Burgundy this summer.

I'm supposed to go.

Let's go.

But let's go, but you gotta pay for the PJ.

That's fine. Okay, all right, we'll go. Without a doubt.

We'll go.

Is there anyone else in the league who is at your level dominoes-wise?

No.

Mm-mm. How often, like, will you play guys on the team?

Yeah, and I'm gonna win every time.

So did they like stop wanting to play you?

Nah, you know, it is kind of like everybody cheers 'cause I talk so much shit that it's like when he does lose, which I have lost before.

Yeah.

But it's like, yes, he finally fucking lost. And then I get back on my win streak.

When we were teammates in Philly, I was part of the Boo-ray game. So Boo-ray, ideally you play with 4 players. We had 5 players. And then Jimmy, when he got traded, became the 6th player. And it took me all of one round to get the fuck outta the game.

Wait, who else was in the game?

He is the most reckless player I've ever seen in my life.

Who else was in the game?

Who was it? Amir.

Yeah, Amir.

Joel.

Joel. Bub.

Bub, our security guard. Bub.

Our security guard.

Bub broke ass.

Wilson Chandler.

And Wilson, yeah.

Yeah.

That was it.

And I played one round. And it's like, First of all, there's almost not enough cards if you have 6 players. It gets a little dicey with the cards, but because he would just stay in every time, the pot was just like, it was enormous. It is the goal.

It's a pot up there. 'Cause then everybody can get up.

He took the skill out of the game. It just became a random crapshoot. Play.

Get your ass booted back to the pot.

Do you do Vegas or any of those places?

No, I don't really gamble like that in casinos. I'll gamble with, my teammates, because I know whenever I lose, you're gonna treat me to dinner and I'm gonna buy 13 bottles just like this. So I'm really getting my money back either way it goes.

One of my favorite stories from last year was when we were in Salt Lake City and we, uh, we had dinner after the game.

Oh yeah, you're damn right.

And there was like, we probably had 13 of the 15 guys show up to dinner. A couple guys brought their people, uh, maybe one person brought their wife maybe. Yeah, I think there was somebody's wife was there. There was 20 people there, whatever. Killed it. Probably ordered 12 bottles of wine.

Yeah. And I had the, I had the company credit card for the Sixers.

And I look over as we're like kind of finishing up the bill, and Jimmy had ordered like 3 sick bottles to go.

We out of here. Give me the company card.

You got to do it. You got, you got the card, you got to take advantage.

Come on, man. It was a great team function though. It really was.

It was.

Took full advantage of it.

We've talked about this with Zach in Chicago. We talked with a couple guys about like how different teams have different dynamics in terms of like how social everybody is. Do you think it like makes a difference? Like, is the team like getting along or hanging out on the road? Like, can you have a good team if you don't do any of that or does it sort of not matter?

I don't think so. I really don't. Like, I think that you can get along with each other on the court and make it work, but sooner or later, like, if you don't like the individual, it'll start to trickle its way on the court. If you don't like to be around them, 'cause you're around them like so often that if you're not vibing with the motherfuckers off the court a little bit, like if you just like, man, I gotta avoid them, but I'ma just handle my business on the court, It don't work like that. It don't. 'Cause now in the back of your head, it's like, I really don't fuck with this dude, but he's my teammate. Like, I think everybody gotta be on the right page or you just gotta be honest about it. Like, if you honest about it, be like, yo, look, I don't fuck with you, but I'm coming to win. Which a lot of people not gonna say and do. I think that's okay. But people not just gonna come be like, yo, look, we here to win. I don't fuck with you, but let's win this championship. No, I don't work like that.

You've been in both locker rooms, right? You've experienced both sides of that. Yeah. Have you ever told someone, "I don't fuck with you"? Maybe not in those words.

I'm trying to think.

Nah.

No, no, no, no. 'Cause I, man, look.

Sometimes I wish that guys would just say that to each other.

I agree.

I think that's—

It's not that I don't fuck with you. You may not fuck with me. Yeah, yeah, but you want to say it. Yeah, that's a good one.

Say it. That's a good point.

Um, are they just scared to say it to you?

Probably so, probably so. But not too many people are like real ones, quote unquote, or that's going to tell you exactly how it is. I would like to think that I am like that. Like, I'm gonna tell you when you're on some bullshit, I'm gonna tell you when I think you could do better, yada yada. And I think, you know, people don't like that, but a lot of people aren't like that. Like, they're not— they're not gonna tell you like that.

Was last year difficult for you?

Yeah.

Not just getting traded, but the whole shit in the summer preseason.

Yeah. Hell yeah, it was difficult, man. It was so different. And on any given day, me as a person, as a player, I didn't know who the fuck was in charge. I think that was my biggest thing. I didn't know what the fuck to expect whenever I was going to the gym, whenever I go into the plane, whenever I go into the game. I was like, man, I, I would think I was as lost as the next [MASKED].

Meaning there was just— There was a lot of voices. Yeah, and a lot of influence from a lot of different places and just so much going on on any given day.

I was like, yep, I guess I'm just here to work. I didn't know who to talk to.

At what point did you like realize that?

At what point did— At that [MASKED] meeting in the office that I told you that. I told you that. I was like, I cannot believe.

Wait, when did he brought, when Brett brought, so Brett brings me, you, Joe and Ben. This is pre-Tobias trade.

Yeah.

Was this before or after the, like obviously I'll tell my side of the story about what happened in Portland with you in the meeting that got reported. This is before or after that? I don't remember. It was before.

It was before.

Before we went on that West Coast trip then.

Yeah, it was before. And we all sitting in there, And nothing got accomplished at all. So I was like, and I told you this as we walked out, JJ, why would I ever go back in there again? Like nothing's getting accomplished. Nobody's saying nothing to anybody. And we just sitting in here watching film and you can literally hear the thing just clicking. And we all just looking around. [LAUGHTER] And but you gotta think, now I'm just like, what, I may have been 2, 3 weeks there tops.

Yeah, it was the first month.

Yeah, easily.

So you know what, I'm sent back and I'm watching. I ain't saying nothing, 'cause don't nobody know me like that. When I first got to Philly, what did you think of me?

I didn't know, I didn't.

But if you go by what you read, what are you thinking about?

Oh yeah.

Yeah, right?

Yeah.

So I'm sitting back, I'm relaxed, I'm like, these motherfuckers think I'm an asshole anyways. Let me be quiet. So I'm sitting back, I'm hearing it. Click, click, looking around. Click, click. All right, guys, let's go practice. Why did we just go through this? That's literally what's going on in my head. So I come to you. I said, JJ, why would I go back in there again? We didn't do nothing. Nothing got accomplished. So now we fast forward to however many weeks is over there, and we're in Portland. And then that happens during the film session because once again, wasn't nobody saying nothing. So who was the individual that decided to finally say something?

Here's the fucked up part. You did one thing wrong.

What did I do?

Nothing you said about the team was wrong. I thought your interaction with Brett that day was like a normal interaction. I don't know why it got reported the way it did.

'Cause it was me.

Yeah, because you were coming off whatever happened in Chicago, whatever happened in Minnesota. Yeah, I get it. But nothing was weird. But so he's like, basically he's like, there's some tweaks to the offense. I think some other guys on the team feel the same way. And who did he throw under the bus? I didn't throw him under the bus. You threw the nicest guy. You threw TJ McConnell under the bus.

I did not throw him under the bus.

There he goes.

I did not say, I did not say his name. I did not say his name.

Jimmy goes, "TJ wants more pick and roll." I did not say that.

I did not say that. This is what I did, okay? I did not say TJ. He said, "Who else feels the type of way about it?" Now keep in mind, everybody comes to talk to me 'cause they know I'm not afraid to be the asshole. So obviously I talked to him. Brett asked a great question. Who else feels the type of way about something? All I did, I didn't hear nothing behind me. I just knew somebody was gonna speak up because I had talked to about 5 people. Crickets. So I turned around and the first person I just happened to lock eyes with was TJ. So Monty goes, yo, nah, for real, now's the time. TJ was like, well, you know, I was like, TJ, man, yo, say what you gotta say. And I love TJ. I talk to TJ all the time.

Right.

But I just feel like it's okay to speak your mind. Ain't nothing wrong with it. The worst thing that Brett could have said was, "Fuck you, no." And then you just go back to just being quiet. But at least you get to say what you gotta say.

You know how I feel about Brett. I love Brett and all that. I know your relationship wasn't the same, Sure was not. Towards the end of the year though, as we sort of, we did sort of tweak how the offense was run, especially in the playoffs where you were playing on the ball more. Did that relationship evolve at all or was it strictly a professional relationship?

I would say it was professional, but to this day, I don't think that that was, I don't think that that was fair to switch over like that. Even though I think we played great basketball like that, I don't think it was fair because the entire year Ben had the ball. The entire year Ben had the ball. So you mean to tell me that in one playoff series, you just switch it up like that? I would be like he was. I would feel a type of way. I would feel a type of way. I would think that it's fucked up to play one way the entire year and then be like, you know what? Boom, this is how we're gonna do it. And I used to tell Brad, I was like, Brad, I think we should mix in me handling the ball a little bit. No, we do A to B, we do this. Cool.

Yeah.

Cool. But I would be pissed and I didn't, I mean, I'm not gonna complain about it, but I don't think that that was the best way of doing it in my opinion.

When that Kawhi shot went in, what was going through your head?

What was going through my head?

Besides, I mean—

A lot. A lot was going through my head, man. And I already knew how I believe it would've worked out if that shot wouldn't have went in and we go into overtime and we win. So the shot goes in, we go back to the locker room. I'm in awe a little bit. And then after like everything settles down, The first thing that comes to my mind legit is, will I be back here? Will I have an opportunity to do this again with these guys? And to tell you the truth, I had a feeling that it would be a no. I had a feeling that it would be a no. But I would say that that's the first thing that ran through my head was, yo, are we actually going to be able to run this back? Yeah. And if I'm being honest, I was like, nah, it's not finna happen.

That was my first thought too.

Yeah.

Was like, well, not my first thought. There's a disappointment. There's the tears. There's the hug your teammates. But then like, it's like the realization, like, shit, I might not get this close again.

Right?

You think that? I knew I wasn't coming back when I had my exit meeting with Elton. And he didn't say that to me. Like, we don't want you back. I just knew like, they were gonna, I was only gonna go back there if they had no other options, basically. I really, that's how, I mean, that was the vibe I got in that meeting. So I kind of knew, I kind of knew. When did you know?

Oh shit. I knew I wasn't going back at one point in time. I, now before I say this sentence, Do you think I'm like just that hard to work with? Am I hard to work with?

Is this the phone call after free agency? Is this from the phone call? Is this what you're talking about?

No, no, no, this is before the phone call. No, I don't think you're hard to work with.

Right?

No, I'm not hard to work with. So I ain't throwing nobody under the bus since you think that I seem to throw people under the bus. Somebody told me, that a main reason that I didn't go back was because somebody asked, "Can you control him?" Like, "Can you control Jimmy? If you can control Jimmy, we would think about having him back." Yeah. I was like, "You don't gotta worry about it. Shit, can't nobody fucking control me." For one, I ain't just out there doing no bullshit, but the fact that You trying to control a grown man? Nah, I'm cool. Because I don't do nothing that's just drastically fucking stupidly crazy. I do not do that. So don't sit here and come at me with the, oh, we got to try to control him. You good. Don't even worry about it. And that was, that was my— what you call it? You ain't got to worry about me coming.

I'm not—

If that's what y'all worried about, if that's what y'all worried about, I think, man, good luck to y'all if that's what y'all worried about.

At what point in free agency? I mean, was this—

Oh, this was, uh, before—

Early?

Yeah, early. Yeah, super early.

Super early.

Super early.

And then it's all kind of changed my mind. You start have to exploring other things.

Shit, thought I was knee deep in that already. Shit, shit. Already, all right, already, uh, really knew what it was. Like when I heard about Miami, you know, we talked about it as a group, me and my family, me and my trainers and all of that stuff. It all, man, it all worked out. And then obviously when the meeting came around, we sitting in there, we talking, talking about the roster, man, talking about obviously, all right, Sunshine, what everybody already knows, but the way that they just do shit. "Yo, we work every single day. It's nothing drastic, but we do work. We expect you to come in here and help us win. We're not trying to lose. No, never." Yeah. "Every single year, we're in it to win it now. We ain't worried about 3 years. We can't control that." And that's how I think. I think like, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do tomorrow. Yesterday's gone, but right now I'm going to be the best version of me that I can be. And that's how Miami does it. I don't know how every other team do it. I could tell you how Chicago does it, Minnesota does it, and Philly does it. But Miami's way different than all of those teams that I just named.

You seem much happier.

Hell yeah. I get to be me. I ain't worried about nobody trying to control me, first of all. That's some fucked up shit, talking about you trying to control somebody. But I get to be me, and being, Who I am every single day is exactly what they ordered. I say what I want to say the way I want to say it. I think I've gotten better at relating to this guy, that guy, this woman that's walking around, whatever it may be. But they know that where it's coming from is from the heart, and it's because I want to win. Like, I don't have time. Like, Tyler knows.

Yeah.

And I think me and Ty have a mutual respect. If I see some bullshit with you, Duncan, Bam, whoever it is, I'm telling you right there, it might have some cuss words in it, but no, 'cause I know that you could do better. I know that you could be better. I've seen it. I've seen that. If I ain't seen it, I probably wouldn't get as mad as I probably would. But they know that, man, I care about winning and I care about them as an individual, legit.

You have any good Pat Riley stories?

Not yet, man. Not yet. I'm waiting for some shit to go drastically wrong where that motherfucker coming at you kicking shit.

I mean, he really is. He's one of the very few active sort of NBA OGs.

It's the best.

Like he'll do it eventually.

It's the best. I hope that it never comes to that point. I love having, like, you talking about a winner.

Oh yeah.

He's done it.

Yeah.

He's done it.

Did you say you had a question for him about TJ Warren?

Uh.

Did you tell me you had a question for TJ Warren?

No, it wasn't a specific question. I was curious, I was curious about you in general in those situations when like something like that happens and everybody is, everyone makes a big thing about it on Twitter for da da da. Are you thinking about it like 2 days later or are you just like, I don't give a shit? Like, because you're a competitor, so you're playing.

I'm not thinking about the altercation. I don't care. Nobody's fighting, okay?

Yeah.

Nobody's fighting. I'm thinking about what's said in the altercation. That's what gets me. That's what took it there. You know what I'm saying? Like, we not fighting, we get it. Still don't understand why I got fined more, whatever. But what was said, is what got me. So I'm just like, yo, look, now I'm thinking about that. And that's what I'm saying. It's not about the foul and this and that. It's about like some stuff you just do not say.

Yeah.

I felt like the line was crossed. And that's what I was thinking about 2 days, 3 days, 2 months.

When do you play them again?

March 20th.

There you go.

It's on his IG page. Circled in red or black, whatever it's circled in.

Do you think that I think Philly's obviously might be an example of this, but do you think that teams can have just too many alphas?

Well, what's your definition of an alpha?

So, I mean, I think you could probably define it in a couple different ways, but you are obviously an alpha, not just in terms of like on the court production of an idea.

You talking about like really good players?

No, but it's not just really good players. It's just like the person who has to be the star. You're the star. Every team you go on, you're the star. But can it— if you versus JJ is an amazing shooter, but he's a— he fits in.

He's a really smart player. He's a very smart player.

I'm not a beta though.

But he's not— I wouldn't call him an alpha.

And so about an alpha—

but so player, he's an alpha off the court.

He's an alpha when it comes to food blogs.

Yeah, you do that. You're a foodie.

I'm watching this. And expensive restaurants. He's an alpha when it comes to—

What are you saying here, Tommy? You've dug yourself a hole here, guy.

You gotta deal with that.

I don't have to deal with that. I gotta deal with this after the fact. But, so, you know, obviously a team like Philly with you—

When you talk about really good players, not JJ, not JJ, right? Forget JJ.

Forget JJ for a second.

Why do they call him JJ anyways?

Is that a thing? Is that a thing now that you've been on, this is your fourth, locker room with all different iterations of this. Is that a thing where you can have too much of a good thing?

That's in everything in life to me. Too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing. Now I go back to what I'm saying. But if you, if you know, and you have like, okay, yeah, you can have 3 or 4 Alphas or whatever it is. But you gotta know which one is really the one, you know?

Yeah.

Like, I think whenever you put it in order and you make sure that everybody's playing their role and playing it to a T, it can work. But when everybody don't know what's going on on any certain day, you don't know. It's not gonna work that way. But you gotta boom, this is it, this is it, this is it, this is it. And I can tell you that it works because we do it in Miami. This motherfucker Spo would come in the locker room and, Duncan, why in the fuck did you dribble the ball inside the 3? Like, we'd be like, what? Like, he's hooping. Duncan, you're a fucking shooter. Shoot the fucking ball. But that's letting Duncan know, like, it's all right for me to shoot 23s. Nobody's gonna get mad at me 'cause that's what I do. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Like, if you supposed to go out there and guard, go out there and guard. Don't go out there and try to, I mean, if you could score 50, score 50, but don't go out there thinking like, "Ah, I'm not gonna guard." Nah, Spo gonna let you know. And I feel like on any given team, everybody gotta know their role from the jump. And if it changes, it changes. But then you talk about that as well. But if you don't know your role, it's different. It's difficult.

I feel like someone saying, "I don't know my role," is code for, "I don't like my role." Do you know what I mean?

I agree.

Because there's like, let's just talk about with like really good players as Tommy said. Yeah.

Like, so let's say a team.

I'm not talking about myself.

Of course, no, just for argument's sake, take him out of it.

B or C level. Okay, so for really good players, let's say there's 3 or 4 on a team, right? Obviously someone's gonna have to sacrifice. If there's not like a clear delineation And on a team, not like in competition between two different teams, but on a team, it's not necessarily you want to be competitive with those guys. That can lead to a little friction. So I think there's got to be someone, either a player, coach, someone that sort of delineates who that guy is or who that one or two guy is. And then ultimately you need to have guys who have the personality and are able to sacrifice. Great example of this, obviously, Miami Heat with the Big Three, right? Bosh had to be the guy that sacrificed. You saw early on with D-Wade and LeBron, they're friends obviously, but there was that sort of tug and pull, who's the guy? And then once LeBron became the guy, they win championships.

Yeah. But I would say all three of those guys had to sacrifice now.

Yeah.

Like not saying that like LeBron didn't have to sacrifice, he for sure did. But I think where me and you are like, I'm not having a disconnect, but you're saying if somebody says I don't know my role, that means that they don't like the role, right? I'm saying it shouldn't even come to that. Before you don't know your role, I'm in charge. I'm gonna tell you what your role is. So you don't even have to worry about not knowing your role. You see what I'm saying? Like, that's like whenever teams now, they're trying to, shoot layups or shoot the 3, right? If anybody on any certain team decides, you know what, I'm going to shoot mid-range jump shots. Okay. Let's just take the Houston Rockets, for example. Who shoots mid-range jump shots on the Rockets?

Russ.

Russ, right? Okay, great. Russ is the player that can do that. His role, yo, shoot that fucking mid-range jump shot. Now when Ben McLemore decides to shoot mid-range jump shots, he may get in trouble. That's not your role. But I think they had that figured out. So it's okay, they make that work.

Right.

That's what I'm saying. You didn't have to question if, oh, coach, can I shoot? I don't know if I can shoot. Nah, you be you. You be the player that you be. I'm saying like, if you don't know your role, yeah, you probably don't like your role. But if you know it, And you don't like it, that's your fault.

Correct, correct.

Ain't nothing nobody can do about that.

And you have to be willing to embrace and star in your own role.

Exactly.

Well, I guess my point was, not my point, but I guess my observation will be that it's not on every team that you know your role because it's not, there's not that delineation. The coach doesn't say it or the best player doesn't say it or the culture doesn't sort of adhere to that where it's a little confusing. Especially if you're a young guy.

And I was gonna say, if you're a young guy, that shit's gonna be hard.

You're trying to figure it out.

That shit's gonna be hard.

Was it like that with the Clippers?

I was telling someone this the other day. Doc would, at some point in preseason, not necessarily like the first day of camp, but at some point in preseason, we would start practice and we'd come in for the, you know, 1, 2, 3 together at the jump circle. And he would stop it and he would just say, I'm gonna tell you your roles today. And he'd go around the room. Sometimes you didn't like what you heard or whatever. And one, my last, going into my last year, so the year before was Steph's unanimous MVP. And I had led the league in 3-point shooting that year. So going into the next year, we're in preseason and he's going through his role and obviously, you know, he's like, "Chris, you're the lead ball handler, you're a playmaker, defender, whatever." Goes through everybody, he gets to me and he's like, "JJ, you're one of our shooters." And I don't know why, but it bothers me so much that he said that. I'm like, "One of our shooters, man?

I'm fucking the shooter." Yeah. I don't know why that bothers me so much. I'm a fucking alpha. Alpha goddamn shooter.

I'm a really good player.

No, wow.

No, but Doc was great with that. Stan was great with that. Those two guys, at least my experience in the NBA, those were the two best with that. You knew exactly what you were supposed to, like Stan, you knew exactly what you're supposed to do. And you stayed within that. And if you start within that, maybe that next year you might get a little bit more. But it was like a gradual build. Yeah, for sure. Because it was like, if you do your role and he does his role and he does his role, we have a chance to win. And that's all that fucking matters.

Right.

Do you think your career would have been different if you hadn't come into the league with Tibbs?

Oh yeah, without a doubt.

Because he sort of taught you how to work?

Mm-hmm. He didn't play me. And I'm gonna keep saying that until he feels bad for not playing me. But yeah. And I'm not gonna say it was because of Tibbs. I came into the league with some really good vets. Like Luau, when I would get pissed off, he would be like, "You gotta keep working. Your time's gonna come, trust me." Yada, yada, yada. Booze, Joe Kim, D-Rose, everybody was like, "You gotta work. Your time is gonna happen. You're here for a reason, but you gotta be ready 'cause if you're not, it's on you." Yeah. As much as it was Tibbs, it was even more my teammates at the time that taught me you gotta work no matter what. So, you know, a lot of props and it gotta be said about them. They kept me in it.

That is some of the luck of all this stuff of like—

There's so much luck in everything though. Yeah. Like, luck is a part of life, you know, talent, skill, God-given, all of that stuff is part of it. But I got lucky to end up going to Marquette. Because if Buzz wouldn't have just came down to my junior college and had already had Joe Foles going, he would have never met me. I would have never met him. The chances of me going to Marquette, even lower now. Like, luck is a, luck is a part of everything.

Yeah, we did, we did a thing on the, uh, our last show with Drew. We were talking about top 5. What'd you call it, back alley?

I didn't call it anything. This was a Twitter question. I know the question.

Top 5, top 5, uh, basically back alley—

Guys you wouldn't want to run into in the back, in the dark alley.

James Johnson is number 1.

That's what we had.

James Johnson will kick your fucking face off, like without a doubt. James is, is a bad dude. Uh, I don't know, I never really fucking thought— I just, I know James is— look, that's my dog.

We had Pat, we had Beverly, We had James 'cause he can fight. Yeah. We had Baines.

Aaron Baines.

We didn't have the Morrises because you couldn't pick one of the two of them. So they were off coming off the bench. So they were like 6th and 7th men.

We had Smart, PJ, and you. I can't remember if you were in the starting 5 though.

Okay. I take 6th man.

Well, you were also definitely the, you're definitely the only All-Star. There's no one else.

There's those 8 guys.

Huh. Is there anyone who's like a low-key, just like a vet or something like that, that people wouldn't think about, but you're like, just don't fuck with that guy?

I mean, to tell you the truth, I would say UD. I really would. I would say UD. UD still go about shit like he's 17 years old. Like, in like, yo, look, I'm Miami to the death of me. This is This is what I do. Jimmy Butler Iii, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, rightfully so. He loves his city, he loves his state, then it's right back to him. But he's one that I'm glad he in my corner, I tell you that.

When was the last good NBA fight CP and Rondo? Like where there was actually punches thrown? Has there been one this year?

Not that I can remember.

I felt like there was.

There's a good college fight this year.

Yeah, that would be great. Maybe you could be right.

The only scuffle we've had for a while is the TJ Warren, Jimmy Butler scuffle.

But you're right, because no one wants to fight. There's too much money.

Ain't nobody fighting. Ain't nobody.

It's too much.

You got to do something like crazy, crazy in order to like—

like spit on someone.

Yeah, that, that might do it. That just might activate someone. Yeah, just a little bit.

What was that? What was the All-Star thing you were saying when we were walking in?

Man, I think All-Star is just, there's just too much that's going on. You know what I'm saying? Like, is it about the players really? I mean, I love the fans, but sometimes like you really do need a break. And then like, you know, everybody wants to experience All-Star. Like if JJ's an All-Star, man, you're alpha in my book, right? So all your boys, all your boys wanna come to All-Star, right?

Yeah.

So let's just say, give me a number of how many people you bring to All-Star.

Knox and Kai.

Okay, there's 2.

Chelsea.

3.

And then I'd probably, I mean, if I made the All-Star Game.

Yeah.

Oh, I've got like my whole family, all the cousins and nephews, probably some friends. I'd probably say like 30.

30 people, right?

Yeah, for the weekend.

Right. For the weekend, right. And you want them all to come watch you play an All-Star Game.

For sure. Experience the weekend with me. You know what I mean?

Why you gotta buy 30 tickets?

Why do you get one hotel room from the league?

That's what I'm saying. Like, it's All-Stars, supposed to be about the players.

Like, you kind of— They should have a whole hotel, basically.

That's all that I'm saying. I feel as though, like, we gotta go. It's not like it's optional. It's not like it's optional. Like, I think it's a— a privilege and a pleasure to be able to be an All-Star. But look, I'm a— I would rather spend my money on, on something else rather than All-Star tickets.

Well, I also think like, you know, the way the NFL does it is obviously different with the Pro Bowls after the season. And it becomes like, you can go if you're whoever and you make the Pro Bowl, you're Pat Mahomes. Oh, he's a bad example 'cause he was in the Super Bowl. Yeah, he's in the Super Bowl. But whatever. Like you can go and it's a vacation. Like you don't have to worry about going and playing again. Like, for you, it's like you just get up on a Thursday night, you have a crazy game, you're in this mental headspace, then you've got to go and deal with all this shit for 3 days. And luckily they gave you a couple of extra days off, so it's not— you're right back into it. But at the same point, like, you gotta now focus on playoffs.

And then I just think sometimes you just need— you need a break. Yeah, a break. You need it to clear your, your head. And you're talking from the All-Star break being from a could be a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday start for some people, all the way into that following Wednesday. That's 7 days. And if you, you know, gotta participate in All-Star, that's taken away. And now you only got that Monday and Tuesday, then you probably gotta go back. So you got, you was talking 2 days to spend it with your friends, families, loved ones, all of that. And then you right back to work. Like I would think that me being me, Yo, look, I wouldn't mind. I mean, I'm already in the sunshine, but going, you know, down to wherever.

The Caribbean.

Yeah. And enjoying 7 days with— You know where it is next year?

Cleveland? Cleveland?

Indy. Indy, that's where it's at.

They go Indy-Cleveland back to back, right?

Yeah, that's what it is.

I hope, by the way, I really do hope that you make All-Star the next 2 years.

I really hope that.

JJ's gotten in trouble on this show before for his comments.

No, I mean that. It'd be a huge honor, man.

Thank you, man. You know what, I hope you do too.

His commentary on the city of Indianapolis has, uh, gotten the show.

And it's a great city.

Great city.

Do you think the, uh—

It's a terrific city if you're into chain steakhouses.

Exactly. 3 steakhouses right next to each other.

No, no, hold on, hold on. Look, the best part of Indiana—

Can I just say something real quick? Sorry to interrupt. How is it— what year is this for you in the league, 9 or 10?

This is my 9th.

Okay, 9th. So this is 14 for me. How is it that we're going to Indianapolis and we're still staying at the Conrad? Can you explain that to me?

That is true.

How is that possible? There's another hotel there that's nice. The one right next to Elmo's is nice.

I don't know that hotel.

I don't know what hotel it is.

I don't know what Elmo's is.

How are teams still staying at the Conrad? It's the same, like the hotel has not been updated in 14 years, at least since I've been going.

—Some teams stay at the, uh, J— is it J. Alexander? Alexander?

The one near the arena? Yeah. Yeah, I stayed there one time. They didn't bring my room service. They didn't bring my room service pregame. I shot 2 for 12.

Back to the Conrad.

Back to the Conrad.

No, uh, what's the name of the bakery that's there? Uh, Long's Bakery? Donuts are to die for.

Oh, there is a bacon— there's also a breakfast place that's supposed to be amazing.

I heard that there's, uh, one of our trainers, Brandon/Brian, uh, told me about this right around the corner from, uh—

And then there's a restaurant called Bluebird or Blackbeard or Bluebeard. One of those three.

One of those three.

It's a 33% chance that you get that right. You got one of the words right in it. I've been there.

It's good. It's good. The food there's pretty good.

It's just everything's in the same 3-block stretch.

Yeah.

It's a very odd place. You know, I have a question. You don't have to answer this, but how the fuck do you fix the Bulls?

How do you fix the Bulls?

Yeah.

Uh— Because I was in Chicago. I was in Chicago and it was—

We're gonna edit this part.

I was in Chicago and it was bleak.

I do not know. I have no idea. Um, but I will tell you one thing. They got some players. They got some guys that can play. Now to get them to win, I don't know. I hope that they do though, because Chicago deserves it. Chicago deserves to like be in the playoffs and compete because that city cares so much. Those fans still come out to the game. And obviously I got a lot of love for Chicago, the people there, the organization. But I mean, I really do think that they're gonna figure it out. I really do. They're close. They're right there.

Yeah, they do have a lot of, they have a lot of talent.

Yeah.

They're right there.

They're right there to what?

To make the 8th seed. They're like a couple games back. Who in 8th right now? Cleveland, I said Cleveland.

Orlando. Brooklyn? Orlando and Brooklyn are really battling it out for the 7th and 8th seed.

Right.

Yeah.

I would think Chicago is what, 4 games outside of that?

Maybe.

4 to 12?

We'll look it up later. Look it up. Look it up. Who's keeping count? Who's keeping count?

Probably 9.

Are they gonna have 9?

They don't have 20 wins.

Yeah, they do.

I'm almost positive they have 19.

No. Okay.

Is there a young guy you played this year, rookie or second year guy, that you were just surprised by in terms of how ready they are?

There are a lot. There are a lot. You talking about Luka, my brate. That's Slovenian for brother. Goran taught me that. Trae Young is for real. Donovan Mitchell's for real. Who else is for real? Yeah, you got some young guys that can go. You really do got some young guys that can go. So you can go down the list.

Thank you for bringing the wine.

Appreciate you both.

And your wonderful sense of humor and candor. Tommy, cheers to you, bud. Cheers.

Mark Wahlberg Chevrolet, be there or be square.

Should we have Mark Wahlberg on this show?

Yeah, why not? I think it would.

Would you guys do it together? Yeah.

Bring the wine. Bring the wine.

What's it like when you got— with just the two of you at dinner? What's your— what do you guys talk about?

Any and everything. He one of us. Like, he just works, love life, loves his family, for real. Talk about wine. Uh, yo, you should get this watch. You should look into that. You should look into that. I mean, I look up to the guy crazy. Like, he's like a mentor to me. Whatever he gets in I'm probably gonna get in it. Like, just because he's, uh, he's so successful in all the business things that he does. But he's just, he's always looking out for me, man. So I gotta look out for him. Go to Mark Wahlberg, she'll be like, "Go get you a Tahoe, baby. Go get your Tahoe." All right, Jimmy, thank you for— Go get the Tahoe, JJ.

Jimmy, thank you for your time. It's really appreciated. And, uh—

He's getting the Tahoe. To be continued.

I'm not getting a Tahoe because I had a Tahoe for 6 years and I got the Tahoe pre-Uber. And then I, by the time I was done with the Tahoe, my teammates would come up to me in the practice facility and be like, "Are you my ride?" Pablo Prigioni did that to me every day.

Oh my gosh. Is it? No, a different car.