#ASKJIM Jim's Group founder, Jim Penman and Joel Kleber - www.jims.net - 131 546

This is Jim's Monopoly. Great, great prize. Great with the kids. If you played Jim's Monopoly, you'll never want to play common garden Monopoly ever again. This is the best version.

It is.

Oh, I designed, I designed the thing myself. Green is mowing. Red is dog wash, doesn't surprise you. It's my turn. It's pest control.

There you go. Alrighty everyone, so it's lovely to see so many people here. We hope everyone has had a fantastic first day of Jim's group induction training. Now we're going to get ready to do our Ask Jim session. So who's first up?

Who has a question?

Yeah, come on up. Just come straight up to the microphone. Everyone who asks a question gets a prize. Jim will pick his top 3 favorites, but everyone gets a prize. So come up and ask away.

Facing this side here?

Yeah. Hi, Jim.

On the first day when Sel was doing the presentation and he mentioned about selling a split, which one got sold for $185,000, I think it was in Queensland. Straight away when I made my mind, that's what I'm going to beat. I'm going to get the work in the Maxwell area where there's no Jim's franchises yet. There's one couple in Coffs Harbour. So that's kind of made my mindset, that's what I'm going to beat. Do you think it's possible considering it's a new area, it's a regional of New South Wales, how much you have to work? Like, I mean, what's the anticipation for that one? Any, any ideas, any tips for that one? That's kind of set up my goal.

We work in quite small communities and it's often good. That's just one where you need to build your local knowledge. Do you have a local paper or anything like that? What's the local media like?

Look, I just actually got moved there 8 months ago, and I actually was hoping to get one in Coffey, but there was nothing available. The only one is available in Maxwell, which is probably 40 kilometers down towards Sydney. I haven't done that research yet. That's one thing I might do on that one.

Look, it's a great situation for using pay for work guarantee. 'Cause you can go into the community and be the good guy. They don't have to know your franchisor's paying for it, but just offer to do— Sorry, asthma. I'm not lying. Yeah, just offer to do— anybody in the community who needs things done, just put yourself out there as somebody who can help people and become known for that. And build a good reputation. We had a guy do that up in, where was it, Mildura or somewhere like that, and it got destroyed in the local paper. It just really, really went viral. So you have a great opportunity to build that local connection. Join everything you can in the community, just become part of them. Get to know people, go in with your uniform. What division are you?

Cleaning.

Cleaning. Yeah. Tell you what, who doesn't need a clean? Yeah. If you go out there and you say, who in the community needs I'll do a clean. Who do you know who's a pensioner or anybody else, widows, anybody else who needs some cleaning done? I'll do it for free as a community service.

Yeah, I know a couple of farmers up there and also they know actually a couple of real estate, they bought the farm. So maybe that can be a startup with them having a chat.

Get to know your local Facebook group and those kinds of things too. There's usually local community type pages that you can sign up, get online and get in touch with them. Local, local ones are very good for us, actually. It's often better in a small environment because you, you can become known.

But do you think it's possible to hit that mark?

To be able to—

5 years' time?

I don't know how many households are there.

I should have got that ready to ask you before I got that question. I don't have that info at the moment.

So a lot of elderly people, it's like a retirement sort of thing.

There are retirement people. It's like a kind of farmland. There are tyres up there, they live on acreages, but there are also farms there, and then also aged care facilities as well.

I knew one guy who had a business down near Geelong somewhere in a sort of a similar sort of retirement beach type place. He had 40% of a community, 40% of the households. He was a mowing guy who was actually doing the work for it. So in that kind of environment, you've actually got an opportunity to get a very, very dense business. You might find that you want to employ people if you do a split down the track.

That's what I'm hoping at, yeah.

Yeah, why not? All right, be the pioneer.

Yeah, have a look. Thanks very much.

Fantastic question. Who's up next? Absolutely, head up to the mic.

My name's John, I'm joining the mowing division.

Good choice, good choice.

It's actually my second time here. I was here 5 years ago when my wife and I, we joined Jim's Bookkeeping, and I've been an accountant for 40 years, but my passion has been mowing and gardening, so I'm back again. A discussion was happening at our table this evening about setting up as a sole trader versus a company, and it's a question that I got asked a lot as a in my bookkeeping time. I find it a difficult question to answer. I tend to lean to sole trader, not to overcomplicate things.

Isn't it a matter of the individual position that you're in, really? I don't think there's the same answer for everybody. I run it as a company, quite obviously, but for many years I ran it as a sole trader. In fact, I don't think I had a company until I started franchising. As long as you can distribute, I mean, being in business for yourself, as you know, for a bookkeeping background, is tremendously beneficial. There's so much you can do with your income, and you can split your income with your partner, all kinds of things like that. So you've got great advantages whether you're a company or not. I think it's more relevant when you get to a larger scale.

I think so, yeah, and that's what I tend to say to my clients. If they're not sure, is to start off as a sole trader, and as they grow—

Interesting you've gone from bookkeeping accounting to gardening.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, guess what I was doing at the weekend? Gardening. I was planting fruit trees and passion fruit vines. The greatest, greatest, amazing fun of all. I just love gardening.

Well, I worked as a finance manager for construction companies for 25 years with one group, and the last 5 years since COVID I've, I'm up to my 5th job in 5 years, and I'm in my mid-60s and approaching that sort of number of 67, and I'm not ready to retire. And I think the model that you're running here allows us to do what we want in the timeframe we want and how we want to do it.

Listen, you're just a kid. I'm 73. I might have a bit more hair than you, but I'm significantly older. I think it's great. Look, we have a lot of mowing guys are still up here in their 70s. I know one I know just passed his 80th birthday. It seems to be particularly for that division, we have a lot of people who are really 70-plus.

Yeah, I did my training with one, a 70-year-old, and I couldn't keep up with him that day. He sent me home halfway during the day.

Well, it'll keep you young.

Yeah, exactly.

See, I mean, I'm biased. I have to admit I'm biased. I can see all the cleaning people and the dog wash and everything else, but Mowing, gardening is a fantastic job. Why? 'Cause it has so many things that make people happy. Working physically, keeping fit, working outside, contact with nature. These are all really big positives if you look at the science of human happiness. So it meets them all. But then again, you know, other things. Dog wash people too. That's a great, if you love dogs, that's one of the best jobs you can possibly have. You're doing something that's fun. So if you love what you do, it's great, and your own business, why isn't it?

So just before you go, a question for you. You've been here 5 years ago, how are you finding the training experience this time as opposed to 5 years ago?

Well, yeah, when we came it was the week that all these shutdowns began, and in Victoria we were— we probably had the strictest rules in the world, I think, in terms of So it was a little bit disruptive. We had some people on site, some were doing it online, and then we didn't have any, uh, any sort of, I guess, communal gatherings or dinners and meeting with others. So this time around, um, we didn't have to do the induction for the Jim's franchise model, but we, we wanted to do it again, so just to set ourselves up for success. But listening, listening to franchisors who are been out there and done it and learnt, it was invaluable, especially with John Govick this afternoon.

Yeah, oh fantastic.

Thank you.

Our training is very real, isn't it? People who've done it, it's not like in a TAFE where you've got people who just learn everything from textbooks. Everybody who teaches here is somebody who's actually done it themselves, including myself of course. Yeah, good comment.

It's alright. Well, yep, fantastic, coming up.

Had to write it down. How are you, Jim? I'm Justin, join the Marwa Division as well in South Australia. You've built one of the most recognised small businesses in Australia. What still drives you? It's a lot of fun. I love what I do. I couldn't think of a better job in the world. People talk about retiring. Let me tell you, you know what's really tough for me is taking time off. I go a bit stir-crazy. The toughest time of the year for me is Christmas to New Year when I can't be in business. I find that really difficult. I don't even know why anybody would want to take a holiday when they're having the time of their life. And what I do is deeply meaningful. I love to be able to help. I love seeing franchisees successful. Terrific. It's just really amazing. I just had a call just before I came here from a guy who started just a few years back. His turnover in the last year was $2.5 million. He's a mowing guy who's built this massive landscaping business. He's got 7 guys working for him and he said it's just completely transformed his life. That sort of stuff is amazing, that sense of achievement. And I have a research foundation that I'm funding, which I think could make a really big difference. But I couldn't do that if I didn't have a business. So I have a very strong sense of mission. I am really having fun. I don't believe in retirement. I just don't see the point. I love what I do. I hope you do too. Oh, I can't wait to get started. Like, it's just, I've spent all my working life working for someone else and to get an opportunity where you can just do it off your own bat. And have that drive and the passion for it. Well, I love being a mine contractor too. I thought that was a great job. I was very fit working outside. There's a sense of achievement of doing jobs well. It was just being in business for yourself is marvelous in my view. I know it's not everybody's taste, but just to me it's, it's so much fun.

Yeah.

And that endless challenge, how you can do better when you're out there. Doesn't matter whether you're whether you're running a business like mine or whether you're mowing a lawn or cleaning a house, how can I do a job better? How can I do it more efficiently? How can I give a better finish? How can I delight my clients better? How can I increase my hourly rate? Just the whole thing, it's marvellous. And then you've got that feedback, that sense of fellowship. If you use the system properly, not just with your franchisor, but other franchisees coming to meetings and that sort of sense of I've been out with 3 franchisees and they've all got that same drive. They've just set themselves up and this is what we do and we love it. So whatever you're doing, it's working. Thank you.

That's what we want to hear. Thank you. Yeah, come on up.

Hi, Jim. I'm JP from Handyman in Melbourne. Yeah, JP. If you could create a franchise in ancient Greece, What service would you provide and how would you make it successful? Oh, interesting.

I don't know.

Slave trading, maybe? The thing is, in those kind of societies, the manual work was largely done by slaves, so it's not quite— they were great traders. They were great at business in general. I reckon some sort of commercial franchise would be the best, of some kind. Greeks like that. You got a Greek background? Yeah, I do. Hence the question. I know you love ancient Greece. Yeah, I do. I do actually, I do. It's actually, if I go on Google, you know when you go on Google and you start going down, I was quite astonished to find out all these incredibly interesting things about human evolution and ancient Greece, because that's interesting topics to me. So I keep on asking things Google reckons, hey, you're interested in that, so I get some great stuff. Yeah. We're just reading stuff today. Yeah. What period in Greek history do you like? I don't know. I don't know. I haven't thought that far ahead. On the spot. Yeah, I know. You got me now. Whatever your favourite is. I love the Classic Age of Greece. It's just amazing. You know, when I was 14 years old, somebody gave me a copy of the Peloponnesian Wars by Thucydides at the age of 14, and it absolutely hooked me. I used to read every book I could find about that subject. Even before the age of video games, I had maps on the floor of my room, giant maps, and I had Greek city-states with armies and stuff fighting amongst each other and stuff like that. I was crazy about it. My research project that I'm doing is actually a direct— comes directly out of that interest. I was interested in history, Greek history, Roman history, and wanted to know why such brilliant civilisations actually declined. That led me to study of history in general and then into cross-cultural anthropology and biology and all kinds of things, coming up with a very different understanding. Amazing. Yeah, it is amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Greek history is the best. You know, there's a game called Rise of Rome. I try not to play too much computer games, but there's a game called Rise of Rome, and it's about how these three Roman factions are sort of, you know, trying creating empires, and there's all the others like the Greeks. I don't like to play the Romans, I like to play the Greeks. So I take on the Greeks, and when I succeed is when I sack Rome. That is my That is my wish in this game. And the second question, or more of a request, can we hear your fiendish laugh? I'm a great fan of villains. When I was at school, we did a play, a sort of review, and I was Munro Murgatroyd, who was an arch-villain who was basically— had this fiendish plan to take over the school. And sort of— I was trying to become the school captain. And I had a line that goes something like this. 3 years in the 6th form have I been, before which twice in 5th. 'Yet my experience is spurned. This manly do-good,' who's the good guy, 'standeth in my way and therefore must removed be. I will to lofty Merton Hall,' which is the sister school, and so forth like that. And that's why I developed the fiendish laughter. I used to, when I was standing out in the park, I used to go down to the shed under the house and practice my fiendish laughter. And they always want to know, what television are you watching?

What's your programme? The sound echoing under the house.

Yes, that's right.

Yeah, fantastic.

Villains are good. Villains are good.

Excellent.

My daughter and her partner actually got me a— what do you call it? A CD and a— what's the plug-in thing used for computers? With all the Simpsons with, yeah, with the CD-ROM. Yes.

Yeah.

So all the, what's the name of the villain? Sorry.

Mr. Burns.

Burns, Montgomery Burns. Yeah, Montgomery, everything with Montgomery Burns. When my kids will be listening to the Simpsons, if I hear the sound of Montgomery Burns, I would come out Listen, I'm known for being a great fan of villains.

So who's your Smithers? Yes, Joel. So sorry, Joel, if you're watching.

I think you make a pretty good Smithers.

Oh yeah, look, I'd agree. Sorry, Joel.

Sorry, Joel.

Yeah, I reckon.

Gotta love the villains, actually. Have you ever seen, um, you said the first, um, Spider-Man with Tobey Maguire. It's some great villains. I love, I love the Green Goblin. I just think he's, he's one of the best villains. He really is. He's so, he's so evil, but he's also understandable. I mean, if you had a company and people, your board of directors, tried to take it off you, wouldn't you want to kill them? I mean, obviously this is, this is, this is reasonable stuff. I can, I can so appreciate that point of view. So, you know, good villain makes something. It really does. You've got to have a great villain.

Okay.

Yeah, come on up. Yes, come up. Jim, my name's Aaron from Canberra. I'm doing the car detailing. Yep. I'm not one for change. So my question I guess we were chatting today and you were very set on, as you were saying before, you like going to work and so forth. And we've all joined this for obviously, you know, the attraction of what you do and so forth. Have you got a plan and succession for when you do? Like, have you got an heir to the throne, or that's someone that you've got set up to keep going as you? Still looking. I've got one daughter who's very strongly involved. She's running with her partner, she's running Jim's Removals. They're doing a very good job, very, very a very smart young lady. The rest of my family, I don't know. My wife's very heavily involved and she's 7 years younger than me, so I think she can play an ongoing role. Congratulations. Well, yes, she's also drop-dead gorgeous too, so double congratulations. But yeah, so I've got hopes. When I eventually do go to that, you know, the great Luang Prabang franchise in the sky eventually, I'm setting up a system with a board which is partly elected by my children, somebody to represent my research institute, and somebody elected by you to be on the board of directors. And there's also, as you heard this morning, there's a clause that says the majority control of Jim's group cannot be sold without the written consent of most franchisees. So I'm really trying to set up a system that will continue in some way the— most of the money is actually going to the foundation. A little bit's for my kids to help them with houses and stuff, but most of the money goes to the foundation. But I'd like to see it continue in my family. The one thing I don't want to do is to be taken out by some greedy capitalist who rips my franchisees off. That would be the ultimate nightmare. Yeah, I'll probably live another 20 years, so it doesn't go hard. Yeah, the, um, I guess back to you, like, you know, you've got a certain faith. Yes. Yeah, and back to the, I guess, the, the comment of the Greeks and the Romans, um, do you get offended by comedy such as Life of Brian, or? I love Life of Brian. Isn't it a good movie? Yeah. So fun. Monty Python is the best. I gotta say, The Holy Grail is one of the best films of all time. I think that is so brilliant. Who's seen Life of Brian? Oh, you've got some good taste out there. That's good to see. I don't know how anybody who's Christian could really think that was serious. It's not knocking Christianity, it's knocking, you know, cults and And just fantastic. Remember the scene where he's writing Romans go home? Yes. And the guy comes along and ticks him off for having the wrong grammar, which if you learnt Latin at school is so hilariously funny. So he ends up doing all this writing with paint on the walls. It's just so funny. It's a classic movie. My favourite. Brilliant. Yeah. Thanks very much. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll have to check it out. Okay. Yeah, yeah, come on up.

Hi Jim, I'm Jesse from mowing.

Uh, see a lot of mowing guys today.

I've kind of got two questions for you, one more so a personal route and one more of a business route. I'll start with the business route. What is your answer to essentially this new wave of undercutting workers on social media that are pushing out franchise operators with their lower costs. What would be your answer to combat that?

Sorry, what are they doing?

So essentially you've got people that are on Facebook or whatever and just mowing lawns for $20 because they don't have any overheads, they're not having fees to pay, they're not— how would you combat that as a franchise?

I don't need to. We had more than 200,000 unserviced leads in the last year. Why would you work for $30 an hour when you can make $70? That's my position. I don't need to. We actually, it's very, very rare for mowing franchisees to be short of work. Most of them are completely flat out within a few months charging full rates. Those kind of guys are no good. But why would a person work for so little anyway? Even if you're an independent, what— why is it— clients are not really fanatical about the cheapest price, especially when the service is so lousy. They want somebody who'll do a decent job, who'll make the place look good, who's reliable, who turns up, those kind of things. We have no trouble at all in finding clients who want service done at a good price. You know what our problem is? Finding the franchisees to do the work. We could put on another 100 franchisees tomorrow and we have no trouble finding work for mowing, for most other divisions too. Dog wash. We have got so much work in dog wash that we've actually stopped charging advertising fees for the last year because we just got so much of it. There's no point. The advertising is so much in surplus, we just don't need to charge it. So the same thing with mowing. People get too hooked on price, because they're thinking retail, they're thinking going into Myers and, you know, into Woolworths and buying cheaper stuff. It doesn't apply in the service industry. You don't need to cut prices. And I don't think it's a good idea because by charging properly, you actually get to attract and keep the best operators. And as far as fees are concerned, your average fee, the average franchisee in mowing according to a recent survey is turning over just under $3,000 a week. Now, for someone like that, your fees is around about 6% of turnover. But bear in mind this covers everything. It covers advertising, it covers support, it covers the buying group, it covers all kinds of things. So it's an incredibly cheap deal. 6% makes no difference at all. Especially by simply wearing this brand, you can charge an extra 10, 20% without any trouble. We've had people, there was a forum once where there was a, like one of these online things where there was a new franchisee, one of the gym things. He was actually asking, he said, I'm in a new area, I'm the only gym around. So I want to know what to charge. And you know what the answer came back with? They said, find out what the other people are charging and put at least 10% on top. Because simply by carrying that brand, you can put at least an extra 10% on. That's what they told him. And that's, and that's a lot more than what we charge in fees.

Right. So my, my second question being is, obviously with your found success How do you deal with the fact of the people around you being with you because they want to be with you or hanging around you because of what you have to offer?

That's a good question, actually. I like that one. I like that one. Yes, it's very good.

To be clear, I've been here 15 years. I'm here because I enjoy it.

We do tend to have very long staff, don't we?

We do. High retention.

Joel's been around for almost as long as you, about 12 years now?

Yeah, 13.

13 years? Alright, yeah. I don't have any problem with that. I have wonderful personal relations. I have the most amazing wife in the world. 24 years. Crazy in love with each other. Really crazy. It's sickening actually if you see us together. People are like, "Oh, come on." Children are always rolling their eyes. So I've got the most wonderful wife. We adore each other. I've got amazing children. We had a gathering last night too, a family gathering with some of my kids, another one on Saturday at a birthday party and just people get on well. They're just so happy and they're such brilliant people. And you know, the kids have always got issues. You'd like my 16-year-old son to work a bit harder sometimes and get his assignments in on time. But I've got amazing family. I've got a church family. I've got, um, we've got a life group that meets In fact, we're meeting on Wednesday. We'll be here, as a matter of fact. We meet every couple of weeks and we just spend time together. We pray together. We share problems and stuff. So I don't think of any problems at all with that. I feel very sad for people who are so rich, but they just don't know whether people care for them or not.

That's more so was that I was referring to. Did you find with your success that people's personal tendencies with you kind of shifted? As that, or was it the same from all the way through?

No, no, no. I don't believe that at all. My staff might be polite to me because they don't want to get in trouble. But personally speaking, I am very, very blessed. I have a very different environment. My kids didn't grow up rich. They sort of theoretically, the young ones know that I'm quite well off, but they don't see any sign of it. Dad, you're supposed to be rich. Where's the mansion? Where's the butler? Where's the expensive overseas trips? Where's the clothes? I mean, this is my shoes. This is $20 from Kmart, my shoes. And you can probably see my trousers aren't much more expensive than that. I live very simply. And in that kind of environment, which is based on real relationships, you know, talking about happiness before, one of my favourite topics, But it's a really good question. I love what you're saying. But relationships, quality relationships are actually probably the single most important thing to a good life. Whether it's family or friends. And I think if people become so arrogant in the chasing for riches, then they lose that. That's a terrible loss. You know, there's a guy, the brother of a close friend of mine who I still speak to him regularly. He committed suicide. This was the bloke who was much richer than I am, lots richer, and just killed himself because his family life and his personal life was so screwed up. Nothing's worth that. Nothing. Great question.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. All right, yeah, come on up.

G'day, I'm Nick from Gippsland doing pool care. Just wondering, now that you have branched out into so many different areas, was there one that sort of surprised you with how big it got and how much revenue as such to come in from it? Well, most of them actually, in a way. You just don't know. I mean, when cleaning started, it was just a sort of a trial thing. I didn't even think it'd work in the beginning. It's now closing in on mowing. They reckon they're going to be— Haydn reckons they're going to be past us in about 3 years, aren't they? I know. He's got a fight on his hands. But what are things too? I mean, test and tag, for example, that started with one guy. And I looked at it and I'd never even heard of this thing where you could test and tag electrical equipment. And I thought, wow, how big could that be? Maybe we'll get 50. We've got well over 200 now. Building inspections started by Paul Comfort, still run by him. It's the biggest company of its kind in Australia, by far the biggest. It just started from one guy. Laundry, Bill Cavanagh comes up with the idea of laundry. I didn't even thought about it before he did it. It's got like, he had 120 in 3 years. In fact, tomorrow We're having a presentation.

We are.

We've got Jim's IT, which has hit just past 50.

Just past 50. We've got car detailing, which is due for the next sign.

And that's 200, isn't it?

Oh, 200. Yes.

You know, you know that, you know, the signs in there, you, they're not at random. 50 gets you one, 200 gets you two. Is that right?

I think it isn't. 150 gets you two, and three is It's like 1,000. Yeah, it is. It's quite a high number.

Not too many, but it's kind of like a ceremony when you hit a certain target. I've got some amazing people actually. A lot of it depends on— it's not so much the idea itself, it's the right person. Having the right person. Anybody here might be somebody who launches a new division that has 200 franchisees one day. That's often our best source of entrepreneurs. In fact, we're looking, seriously looking for people to head up existing divisions now, to take them over and run them. And we're looking particularly to our franchisees because there's 5,500 entrepreneurs out there and some of them are really, really good. Thank you.

Thank you.

The wonderful thing about this business, you can start with very little and you can achieve anything. Hi, Jim. My name is Richard. And I'm from Canberra, and I would like to ask you, what is your motivation like to help people to be franchisees? Well, what do you say to yourself when you wake up, like, I help people like to be like their own bosses? What's the motivation? Yeah. It's very satisfying. Being a coach, helping people to succeed is an enormously satisfying job. You might think that franchisors make more money than franchisees. Quite often they don't. Somebody goes from being a franchisee, successful, to a franchisor, might have to take a pay cut, but the satisfaction of the role is something else. And when you spend time helping with someone, you can see their life turning around. It's really quite an amazing experience. Just like the conversation I told you about before. They're not my direct franchisee, but here's somebody whose whole life, and you could just hear the excitement and the joy, he just rang me to say how much he appreciated That's amazing. That really is good. At the same time, some people fail, and that's really painful. Really, really painful. So it's two sides, but it's a great job. It's being a franchisor, I reckon, is one of the best jobs there is. Yeah, and I would like to thank you too for the opportunity because it's gonna be my first business as a dog washer. And nowadays in this world, like, we can't find people like you, like, who is like all that to help other people to be successful too. Because they're already on top, but they don't look down like, oh, what about those guys? But I can see like on this day, like you here, you're very humble. You're like helping all of us and even the novice. I appreciate you. I'm going to write to you in a month's time. You better write back to me. Tell me how you're going. Okay. That's a very important letter. I tell you what, I really get— most of the people say it's going great. I'm doing well. I'm above paperwork. That's the normal response. And I write back and I say, well done, congratulate them, congratulations on surveys, all kinds of things. But sometimes people really need help and that's really important for me to actually say, hey. I had an email this afternoon actually and this is from a mowing guy who's saying he's not getting enough work. Now we had a look at it, myself and his franchise were together, we were sort of emailing back and forth and he's doing various things which are really crazy. First thing is, he's a mowing guy who's not taking mowing jobs. No mowing jobs at all. So what he's not done, he hasn't built a regular client base. Also, he's very limited. He's only looking at about 5 suburbs. So he's saying he's short of work, but why aren't you taking mowing jobs? Why aren't you building up your client base? And then you do your extras off those. So that kind of detective work, trying to say, okay, why aren't you making money? Because he should be. He's been going like about 4 years. At that level, the mowing guy should be absolutely flat out. And his customer service isn't bad, I checked that too. But the kind of jobs he's asking for isn't helping him. I get the same problem too with some cleaning franchisees who do a lot of things like they do a lot of vacate cleans, which are quite lucrative. But then they don't take the cleans that turn into a regular job. And you need that base of regulars. That means you've always got, you know, $2,000, $3,000 a week coming in no matter what. And that's the basis. And then you can make your really good art, how it looks, all that stuff. So it's that kind of stuff too. It's very, very rewarding. I get an absolute thrill out of it. When I wake up in the morning, I've got some purpose to— it's good. Thank you, Jim. Thank you.

Fantastic. All right, we'll jump to an online question. So I've got Hayden Moulds here. More of a compliment for you, Jim. You have done an outstanding Doing a standing job growing your organization while still upholding your values and pushing them to your franchisors.

That was a compliment.

That's nice. All right, now where's a question? All right.

Anybody else? We've got some other people who had some questions out there before I was talking to you.

Don't need to be shy. Everyone gets a prize. Anyone who asks a question.

Come on, a lot of good stuff. Monopoly. Ah, there you go.

Come on, come on.

The more weird the better. Don't be scared.

Make it interesting.

Mike liked this one. You can even argue with me and tell me off if you like. I'm Joe from Brizzy. Hi Joe. My sympathy with you. I don't know how anybody lives in Brisbane. Too hot.

Yeah.

Nothing wrong with Queensland that wouldn't be solved by moving an extra couple of thousand kilometres closer to the South Pole. I was 32 when I left and about 12 when I got here.

Wow.

Enjoying our bracing weather, I bet you are. So you've invested a lot of time and money into your research into epigenetics. Yeah. Have you ever considered pouring some funds into cryogenics and maybe going on ice and coming back for the 22nd century, maybe keep the Jim's empire going? Quite possibly I will. Yeah. I'm all in favour. If there's any— look, I've got about 20 years left, but if there's any medical advances that can extend extend that, I'll be first in the queue, thank you very much. I enjoy my life very much and I love what I do and I feel a sense of purpose in it and I'll go on living as long as I possibly can. And quite likely, I talk about it with a couple of my kids too. Yeah, definitely frees me up. Why not? This is the world of medical treatment, you never know. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? Well, you die. Yeah, apparently that's already started. I've got a better place up there anyway, so. No big deal. Yeah. Cool. You like cryogenics? You think it's a good idea? I know very little about it, but apparently it's already started, and even in Australia, people are starting to get frozen in the hope they can be brought back later. It makes very good sense, actually. Why not? I mean, we do all kinds of things to— like cancer and heart disease and dementia. They're looking at all kinds of ways. Why not? It's just another form of medical procedure. Hey, not quite ready for you yet, mate, but just get into the icebox and we'll wake you up when we've got something, we've got it all fixed. How about that?

Yeah, sounds good.

Good question, thank you.

Good question.

Nobody's ever asked you that one before.

What about Botox, Jim? Would you ever try Botox?

Nah, I'm quite happy to be ugly. My wife's good-looking enough for both of us, actually.

Okay, come on up.

Hello, I'm Chloe from Townsville, Far North Queensland. It's very cold here compared to where it is at the moment. I've got 2 questions for you. First one is, what gets you out of bed in the morning? Yeah, it's a purpose. I have a very— I have 3 main purposes in my life. One is my family, my children. I've got 10 kids and I love them dearly and I want what's best for them. Second is my franchisees, which is you, and the third is my research project. So, I have a very strong sense of purpose in what I do, and that includes me doing things like first getting out of bed, but also keeping fit, exercise, diet, all kinds of things, living a good life. Yeah. But a life with meaning, with purpose. Yeah. Second one is, what is a hobby that you have that we would least expect you to have? Least expect? Or that would surprise us? I don't know. It wouldn't surprise you if I said I love gardening, would it? It's pretty obvious that I do. I read a lot. I read a lot. I try not to play computer games too much. I think that's a hobby, but a particularly good one. Okay, I love doing jigsaws in my— with my wife in bed naked. How about that one?

Definitely surprised.

That surprised you. Thank you for that vision.

Look, we said you could ask anything.

Anything at all.

I do have a question here from Michael Freeman on Facebook. Hi Jim, what is your favorite food? Do you have any health food hacks that have kept your energy up over the years?

Now, favorite food has different meanings. If you ask me what is my favorite food, if you ignore health? Nutella straight from the jar, alright. If you get me close to a jar of Nutella and a spoon, I cannot stop. To the extent that when they have Nutella in the house, they have to hide it because I can sniff it out. But they put it in obvious places like the bread maker, which I can easily find. Because once I get my hands on it, it's gone. So the only reason I'm not out to there is because because we don't have Nutella in the house or anything else.

So it's like when you got your— the gifts, you got sent Nutella as a gift, we had to auction it off to the staff.

We got somebody who like Nutella, so they got, you know what the catering packs are, they're about that big, they sent 4 of them to me. Now I do not need that around the place, so I raffled them off to the staff. Did you get one?

I didn't, no, no. I— we— Sharon and I helped hide them under the chairs, so we knew everyone who did though, so We should have rigged it. Next time.

Yeah.

All right.

As to, actually, foods that are good for me, which I like, which I eat a lot of, I like berries, actually. Blueberries and blackberries. I think they're really, really good. I mean, a lot of those, a lot of fruit, like apples, particularly Envy apples. You get them from Woolworths. They're really good. So I'm a big lover of fruit. My wife is a brilliant cook. Lee is just fantastic. She's— I know I keep on raving about her, but she's pretty amazing. She can cook vegetable stuff, because I'm mostly vegetarian, which is just so tasty. And sometimes it's basic stuff from my own garden. You know, I get a lot of stuff from the garden like potatoes and pumpkins and silverbeet and all kinds of things. And she can cook that into the most amazing dishes. So, yeah, a lot of things. I do like healthy food, but just keep me away from the Nutella. I'm right.

Anyone up next?

Of course, he's got a question.

Everyone gets a—

yeah, come through.

Come on, come on up.

Sharon, your dog wash people aren't asking a lot of questions. They've been a bit quiet. They told me they all had questions. They usually get triggered to ask questions like, what's your favorite division? We've had that one in the past.

So I've only got one question, but firstly, hi, I'm Jared and I'm from Wingdang in the Illawarra region, New South Wales. So yeah, it's a pleasure to be here and it's an honour to be here. Thanks, Jim, for everything, and good to have you. Thanks for all the help from all the other staff. My question is, because I'm actually moving further down south the coast for my franchise, so what are the challenges of a rural region with a smaller population? How would you go about that?

Look, it's not as easy as going into a city where we've completely well known because you do have to launch it there. But as I was saying before, if you can build some strength with the community, you've got to become known. Regions are very personal. Having said that, we're probably stronger in regions than we are in the cities per household. But the reason for that is because places like that have great lifestyle. You've got laid back lifestyle, you've got relatively low cost housing and rents and stuff, unlike in the big city where they're exorbitant. But you can still make a very good living. So we have a lot of franchisees who want to live in a nice rustic or seaside area, pleasant environment, low cost of living, friendly, that kind of thing, but also make a decent living. And they don't always have the industries and stuff that you could do it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I looked in Wyan because it was sort of away from where I was living and there was there was no real serious competition down there and there was demand. So with the aging population down there, you know, a lot of people in aged care and, and things like that, and just the amount of clubs and stuff down there, and there's just so many different places that would need the services that you're providing. So I was really blessed with the opportunity.

So it's a very good market for us. Yeah, elderly people, people with all kinds of needs, and you can do a lot more than just your cleaning. You can change their light globes. We have franchisees who do shopping for clients, you know, even just banging a nail into or something like that. Yeah, yeah, providing that service for them, especially people who don't have family living nearby, which is often the case in those kinds of areas. So yeah, you know, like a surrogate son, it's quite good.

Exactly the way I think putting it. Yeah, thanks for your time.

See the cross there?

Yeah, do you like it? Thanks so much. Yeah, 18-karat gold, I love it. I wear it every, every single day. I never take it off. Yeah, I wear it in surf and I wear it to bed, it never comes off. So yeah, keeps me safe when I drive too. Thanks for your time, Jim. Thanks so much.

Fantastic. Thank you. So while we're waiting for our next person to come up, we've got Jason Smith, who looks after many of our and supports many of our Jim's Group divisions. Jim, are there any new divisions in the pipeline?

Jim's Towing is just starting off.

Jim's Tow Bars Plus?

Towing?

Tow bar? Oh, Oh, towing. We do have towing coming.

You know more about it than I do, which way.

It's Towbars. We've got Towbars Plus. Towing is interested, but we've just launched Jim's Towbars Plus. Towing is coming up shortly.

They've just got their contracts.

Yes. Yep, they have. So we've got two. So we've got Jim's Towbars Plus and looking into Jim's Towing. They haven't signed the contract yet, but very close. We also have, what else, Jim? We've had quite a few. Someone looking into taking on Jim's personal training again.

Really? Yeah, okay.

Yeah, so we've had inquiries about that.

You know more than I do about this. Yeah, she's the new division.

New divisions. Yeah, so we've got quite a few in the pipeline that are coming. Um, artificial turf, that's a new and exciting one that we'll be starting into.

So yes, yeah, yeah, we asked the mowing guys if they might be They said, no, we're very happy with the artificial turf. They do some of it, but they'll get a lot more too with this new division. So it's quite different. Yeah, but that'll be a good one.

Absolutely, yeah, it will be. So ever-growing. So any of you here could potentially be launching a new division at some point in time. Always open to new ideas.

I get a query about a new division probably at least once a week. Only a very few of them come through, but it's not that difficult. It's actually amazingly easy. To launch a new division doesn't cost much more than a franchise, mainly in the costs of just getting the website done, this kind of stuff too, but it's very achievable.

Absolutely.

Driving school's going very well. That started from the Moan franchisee in South Australia, Lance.

Yeah, Lance has done fantastic. He's got quite a few on board at the moment.

Anybody here from driving school this week?

No, I don't think we had any from driving school. This week. I'll have to crack the whip on Lance. Come on, Lance, next one's your aim.

Okay, yours.

Come on, you get it. Everyone gets a prize who asks a question.

Come on. Yeah, come on. Hi, Jim. Uh, my name is Dane from Mowing. Um, a bit of a personal question. I was listening to one of these AMAs a few months back, and you mentioned that you were raised more Mormon and you left that. Is that correct? I was not raised actually, but I was a member of that church for quite a few years. Well, the question was going to be what triggered leaving the Mormon church, because it can be quite a big deal for someone in the Mormon community to leave and become a Christian. Well, that's a rather ticklish thing to say. Most Mormons would consider themselves as Christians. They certainly have followers of Jesus in a very strict sense. I like— I'm not very theological. I am Christian. I treat Jesus as my rabbi, but I'm not really concerned about the details of theology. Mormons have a lot of very strange beliefs. They also believe things like Joseph Smith had the Book of Mormon given to him by revelation. Well, it's pretty clear to me even at the time that he wrote it himself, he made it up. So it's got some very different things about it, but it's a really, really good church. It's very disciplined. It's very structured. You have a very strong sense of community. It has really strong moral principles. Kids brought up in it tend to be much, much more straight, less likely to go astray. It's a brilliant church. I think discipline is very good. I still keep the word of wisdom. I don't drink tea, coffee, alcohol, tobacco. I just believe in that. I think it's quite right. Look, to a large extent, I have to say one of the reasons we moved house and then to be in the ward, we wanted to be in every second week would be, every second year would be having church on Sunday afternoon, which I don't like very much. I mean, it's as trivial as that. And just lastly, the study of epigenetics, I know it can be a bit of a grey area, or is it becoming more accepted in the mainstream yet, or is it still, you're still trying to break through there? Epigenetics is a very wide field of study. It's of great interest a lot of people, but people haven't the vaguest understanding of what it means for human society. Epigenetics and its effect on character is the key to everything. It's the key to why the birth rate's plunging. It's a key to why productivity is not rising. It's a key to the reason why the gap between rich and poor is growing. It's, it's a key to the, to the attacks on democracy, which you can see with a character like Donald Trump. Sorry, what is epigenetics? Epigenetics is the science— if you, if you, if you think of DNA basically as a series of little taps, which is, which is decided by your genes, that's in your DNA. What epigenetics does is it turns the taps on or off. Basically, it affects the way your genes function, and that has a dramatic effect on character. So for example, a lot of the things that we regard as positive about a civilisation, like people who are hardworking and disciplined and community-minded, are to do with something that's got similar epigenetic effects to the effects of food restriction. So we're studying that in rats and basically other animals too, to understand the effects of food restriction and how it changes epigenetically. It has effects on people. So a lot of the things that are going wrong in the world right now are epigenetic effects driven by certain environmental influences. Sorry, I don't know if that's a complete explanation, but yes. It's far more important than people could possibly understand. People have this touching faith in government. You just have the right rules and the right laws in place and everything's gonna be hunky-dory. In fact, it's absolutely not the case. What really matters is not what governments do, it's what ordinary people are, how they think, what they do, how they behave. That's what matters, and government basically just reflects that. So does the economy, so does everything else. So epigenetics is absolutely the key, and what we're trying to do is develop ways of triggering the effects of what's effectively mild food restriction to improve character, help people to be happier, help people to be more effective, better parents, better husbands and wives, better citizens, happier, more fulfilled. It's everything. Can change the world. Yes, absolutely. But then again, it's the effect of society. Wealth itself is very corrupting. Wealth, like the surplus of food that we have, especially junk food, is very, very corrupting. It changes character. Decline in sexual morals has effects, especially in the young. Things like the commercialism of society, the competitiveness, this idea, 'I have to be better than somebody else.' just going for instant wealth, the speculating, gambling thing, all these things, social media, these all have very, very negative effects. It's got to do with the way your dopamine system works. So it's a bit complicated. But there's an enormous range of influences on the way we behave and experiences of life which changes character. And you can be the best parents in the world, but your children are going to go out into the community and they're going to get influenced by other people. It's very difficult. Like, I am a regular churchgoer. Of my 10 children, one regularly goes to church. One. And we've done our best, but it's very difficult.

Fantastic.

Good question.

Alrighty, so I've got one here from Matthew Nash online. "Uh, what are some key components that you think gives Jim's such a reputable brand? Why do you ask your franchisors to honor the paid-for-work guarantee for their franchisees instead of Jim's Group?" Jim's is now a global brand— oh, he's asked 3 questions in one, so let's just stick to those 2. Why do you ask your franchisors to honor the paid-for-work guarantee for their franchisees instead of Jim's Group?

Because it's a very effective way of getting them to build a business. It's actually shown that if you— we don't always have enough work. Sometimes we do have enough work to keep people busy from the word go, which is fantastic. We don't always. What we have found out, if a person's giving even reasonable customer service and they go out and offer freebies, they will always build a business. It really, really works extremely well. In the early days, we used to just give them income to a certain level. We found it didn't have much effect. We found we get off on a much higher level of pay for work guarantee, and by the time they've started doing freebies, then they start to get— build a regular client base and a repeat client base. It's just very effective. And we— what we want to do is have people succeed. We have a pretty good success at that, and pay for work guarantee is one of the keys.

Following the systems. Alright, now another one. What are some key components that you think gives Jim such a reputable brand?

Well, with the public, we just give better service than most. That's pretty simple. And if you've listened to my talk this morning, you will find the, uh, it's a pretty tough system, isn't it? I did, I did warn you, it's a very, very tough system. And sometimes it presses on people. Things like lead fees and complaints and surveys can be quite challenging at at times, but that constant pressure that we put on people to give the best service actually does work very well. It works for the public, it also works for the individual. So we don't apologise for that. We have a system called BIZA which actually sells some of our surplus leaves to independents and they find it very difficult because they're not used to our standards and they don't on the whole— some of them are very good— but they don't on the whole give as good service as our franchisees because they're just not used to this kind of environment that we have where customer service is so emphasised. We have good people. The great overwhelming majority of the response from the customers is really, really good. What else? Who else had a question?

You'll get to pick a prize. Come on up. This is your opportunity to ask anything you like.

Yeah, good.

Come on up.

Dan from Townsville in mowing. We're coming up to rain season up north, so what would be your advice for having possibly 2 to 3 weeks worth of rain and you have so much downtime in between? It rains in Melbourne too, believe it or not. Yeah. Probably a bit more often than it does, because you tend to get torrential downpours, where we tend to get drizzle. Let me tell you, I would not, as a mowing contractor, have lost more than an hour a month out of wet weather. Because basically speaking, if it was a drizzle, I would simply be out there pushing the lawn mower around. If it absolutely bucketed down, I'd go and sit in the car for a while. But don't be scared of getting wet. You're going to get so wet and sweaty there in the hot— in that's going to be your biggest problem, not the rain, it's actually the humidity is the hard part. Yeah, been up there for a while now, so not, not afraid of the heat. So yeah, no, you wouldn't be, would you? No, no. So it'd just be, yeah, with after that monsoonal trough that gets dumped up there, you've got probably maybe a few days where you can't even mow because the ground is so wet as well. So I guess you could just try and— you could do an amazing amount with the mower. If you, if you, you can cut quite wet grass if you just cut with the right-hand side of the mower where it pushes back and keep the catcher open. You can actually cut quite wet grass clean with the right technique. There's a video on the website about that which shows me using using that technique to cut very long grass and picking it up clean. It's the same principle with the web. Interesting place, Townsville. I know a story about— there was a guy who lived in Townsville who was a drug addict. I'm not saying everybody in Townsville is a drug addict. Most of them are. This guy was a drug addict and he was in a really bad way and he got to a stage one night where he was just— felt so bad about the way his life was going down that he was thinking about committing suicide. But he rang up this suicide support line and he got talking to this lady who helped him to get through it and just gave him advice and so forth. So he got through that and then later on he went to church, started going to church and became a Christian. And also became an actual pastor. During this process, he actually met this young lady and he married her. And then one day he said to her, "I would like to have a ministry to help drug addicts, the druggies." She said, "Why would you do that?" He said, "Well, there's something you didn't know about me," because he never told her his past. He said, "I never told you, but I was in a really bad state because I was in that environment. I was an addict. And he said, I could have died except one evening I rang up. I was so just on the verge of committing suicide when I rang up this helpline and this lady told me, and then she said yes, and then I said to do this and this and this. It was her, his wife. I didn't even know. Yeah, that's a good story. Yeah, small world. That's cool. Thank you.

All right, I reckon we've got time for one more question.

He's probably still a pastor there, actually. I don't know who he is, as a matter of fact, but I know the story. A friend of mine.

It's Aman here again, cleaning division from Coffs Harbour. Do you think in your early days when you were struggling you have made some mistakes or you could have done things differently, like a tip for us?

I have made so many mistakes. I've made more mistakes than the normal fighter would make in a whole lifetime. Actually, if you read my book, you'll see a lot of them. I often went into businesses I didn't understand. So many different businesses I tried that failed, like a Mowistop. I tried Amway at one stage, hopeless at that. I tried a computer shop. Tried a tourist development, I tried trade exchanges, I tried a shop to build trailers, a factory to build trailers, I've tried— what else have I tried, Steph? I mean, there's so many things that I've gone into that I should never have gone into. I made so many mistakes. I tend to rush into things. I tend to get excited about business I don't understand very well and jump into them. But it's just a case of learning. You look at what you did wrong and you say, how can I avoid making this dumb mistake again? And gradually you become wiser. And I'll probably look in 2 years' time and look back at what I was doing in 2025 and say, 'Jim, you idiot, what were you doing that for?' I just keep on trying new things and learning. And don't be afraid of making mistakes. I reckon it's— I was listening to a tape of a talking book about Warren Buffett concerning some of his talks, and this guy is amazing. He's 1,000 times more brilliant than I am. To me, but he talks about his mistakes very openly, about the foolish things that he did, businesses that he got into that he shouldn't have got into, businesses that he got out of that he shouldn't have got out of. He just talks quite openly about all the things that he's done wrong. This guy is the most successful investor in world history, pretty much, and he just talks quite openly about his mistakes. If he can make mistakes, well, we all can, can't we?

What would be your kind of like a one top advice for someone like us starting new? One advice, the best one.

Stick to what you know and build from there. The biggest thing is you look at other businesses and you look at other opportunities and you say they look so good. Like things like crypto, for example, you look at people getting rich on crypto and you think, well, maybe I could do that. 'Put some money into that.' That's a terrible idea. Gambling is really, really bad of any kind. You should never pay anything, buy anything that's based on somebody else paying more. That's basically a mug's game. What you should do is look at what you're doing and say, 'What are the opportunities where I am?' Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger talk about the circle of competence, the things they know. That's why they don't get involved in things like technology, for example. But they don't understand it. But they understand certain things very well like reinsurance and like See's Candy and other businesses they own which are great businesses. Coca-Cola, they're big investors in Coke, so they understand that business. So we've all got an area of competence. Mine is very much in the franchising area, not the things I mentioned before. So I should stick to that. You should look at what you're doing. What's your division?

Cleaning.

Cleaning, yeah, okay. What's the opportunities that you can see in cleaning? What could you do? There's a lot of bright lights out there. You can look at somebody else doing this and they look so good. The fact is, the matter of you understand what you're doing, there's infinite opportunities where you are successful at cleaning, improving your hourly rate, maybe taking on workers if you're ambitious enough, building a major business, then going into auxiliary areas, different kinds of things that you could do. And then look around you, what's the opportunities and then you come across something else that you really understand and you know and you go into that. A lot of people start with a service business and then build other things. One of my first franchisees, Andrew McIntosh, one of my founding franchisees actually, one of the first dozen who joined, did quite successfully, became a franchisor, started the fencing division actually. So he was successful in gyms but then he went on from that. He's now a builder, he owns several nurseries. This is all stuff that come out of what he was doing. So I said there's amazing opportunities where you are, looking for where you are, what you understand, and moving from that. And I can't think of any better area to be in than where we're in right now.

That just brought me to one last question, I'll say, and I'll take a seat.

Final question.

What do you think, how important is attention to detail? I got OCD. What do you think about that? How important is that? I'm gonna grab a seat.

You've got to do your job very well, but also one thing to recognise is that we're not all good at everything. Like, I was a very successful mowing contractor, no question about it. I could do a really good job of mowing lawns. Also things like gardening. I can turn over a garden bed in no time flat. Beautiful edges. I'm very good at that sort of area. There's a lot of things now that I'm not particularly good at. Like, I'm not particularly good at finance, figures. I don't have that kind of skill. So what I do is I try and find people like my wife and others who are good in that kind of area that I'm not so good at. And I focus on things that I can do. So you will find there's some things that you are particularly skilled at. That's your circle of competence, the things that you're best at. So you try and work on that, what can you do and you find somebody else to do. It depends what you want to achieve. I mean, you sound like a fairly ambitious sort of guy, would that be correct? I think that's everybody.

Yeah, hopefully.

Not everybody's going to become a millionaire but some of you probably will. You'll do very, very well. That's just not uncommon with us. Thanks very much. But look to improve. The biggest thing is to look at whatever you're doing and saying, how can I do it better? Every day you ask yourself that question, how can I improve? That's the one thing that you most do. And it's tempting to look at other things. It's all the bright lights, people making money out of this, make money out of that, man, that business looked good. What are you doing right now? And in a sense, it's like, it's like what I've done. You know, this is, I started the garden business back in 1970. Charging $1.50 an hour. Everything I've done since then is just built from that very, very limited start. Even back in 1970, $1.50 an hour was not a lot of money. It was ridiculously cheap, but I didn't realise that at the time. But then I just learnt and I learnt and I learnt and I just got better. And it's no great breakthrough. So you can do the same thing if you have that mentality that's says, how can I improve? What can I do better? How can I get better? And the same thing with Warren Buffett. I mean, it's very interesting. Buffett and Munger are both amazing figures, just talking about that learning process and the mistakes they've made and how they've learned. And they've done this wrong and that wrong but learned this lesson here. It's very interesting. Great believer in books. I read obsessively or listen to talking books, probably on average a couple a week. I keep on learning and reading and thinking and talking to people. I talk to my franchisees trying to learn what people are doing. There's a lot of people in gyms who are smarter than me and I always try to learn from them. People like the cleaning guys and people like Bill Kobanoglou and Haydar and Ali and those. There's some really amazing people in gyms and I'm They do things a lot better than I do. But you can learn from everybody. That's the great thing about this environment where you, where you, you've got so many people to learn from which I didn't have myself in the early days but you do. There's great videos. Go to meetings, talk to people, ring people up, make contact. You'll find people like Bill will talk to you. Yeah, a good question, great question.

Fantastic. Do you reckon you've found your favourite 3?

Yeah, I get some such— it's very hard to pick actually. I love the story about success and friendship. Who said that? How do you know people?

That's right.

I love that. Nobody's ever asked me that before, but I think it's a great question about what's the meaning of success and money can be such a barrier. Love that one. You get to come up and choose whichever you like.

Come and choose.

The question about Sirogenics is good. Who asked that one? Yeah, yeah, that was a great question.

Come on up.

No one's asked me that one before.

Pick whatever you like. And one more.

Who mentioned the life of Brian? I thought that was such a classic statement. That was you.

Come on up.

All right.

Come on up and pick your prize.

Very good question.

Thank you.

All right.

And thank you everyone for taking the opportunity to come down and do Ask Jim Penman Live. We're looking forward to day 2 tomorrow of induction training.

Enjoy that. Feel free to email me.