#ASKJIM Jim's Group founder, Jim Penman and Joel Kleber - www.jims.net - 131 546

Cool.

So welcome to another #AskJim. So it's great, we're already in February. I can't believe it, nearly the end of February. It's gone really, really quick. Now before we get into the questions from everyone here, because I know they're hanging out to get some questions to Jim, do you want to tell people that don't know, if they haven't seen the mainstream media with your announcement, um, let's say during the week, what was, what was that about?

Well, I am, I've been pre-selected by the Libertarian Party to stand for the Victorian seat of Northcote. For the next state election. Yeah. The thing that really, really gets to me, which I think we can possibly do something with, is zoning. It's absolutely obscene. The government restricts and restricts and restricts and makes it so hard to build. We bring 500,000 new Australians into this country every year, which I'm totally in favor of because we get great franchisees. But the government then says you cannot build enough houses to put them in. So the house price of houses has gone up astronomically. They cost double what they should. Rents are high. People are dying in the street because they can't afford to rent houses. It is just an appallingly terrible thing. The people that suffer are those, the young people who want to buy houses, who are spending tens of thousands of dollars a year extra on mortgages, if they can afford to buy a house at all. And the benefit goes to wealthy property owners, which I think is just wrong. So that's a big, big issue that I think we need to fight as a state. I don't know if I'll get in, I probably won't. I'm fighting a deep green electorate. Which is not exactly closest to my way of thinking about things, but I just think it's important to make a point. I just think housing is a real terrible thing that we're doing to people.

So we always get Jim for Premier or Jim for Prime Minister online, so now there's a slight chance of something happening, so we're going to do it. So November, but the thing to make clear is you're just focusing on housing and zoning. That's the issue. That's the one. Bring attention to that.

Other things, cutting back on bureaucracy, that kind of thing, yes. We should do that, but housing is the big issue.

All right, so stay tuned for that. If you're in Northcote, you can vote for Jim. So if you're in the Northcote electorate, so keep an eye out for Jim Penman.

You could even be part of the team to stand at the doors and hand out—

You can just share his videos, share the videos.

Share the videos.

Share the videos. We've got a heap of them. Actually, I will tell people about that one video before we get into the questions that we did, because what you brought into the office for a prop.

Yes, I went to the office I went to the bank and they asked for $70,000 in cash because I wanted to show what people were losing because of the state government policies. And if you add up the cost of housing and the bureaucracy and all the other stupidities that's going on right now, it's costing the typical Melbourne— especially householders who are buying houses— something like $70,000 a year. If that wasn't done, then people would be so much better off. So what I did, I put it on cash, put it on the table, and I slammed it down and did it. And then I threw it all at the camera. So that was quite fun.

It was real money. We only lost 3 $100 bills, and you followed up with that.

I went back to the bank and, and, and, uh, to count the money back in, which is a bit freaky. They had to let me in after hours and stuff, and it was $300 short.

So I had to go hunting around the office to find the You wouldn't believe where some of the money got stuck, but yeah, we got it all back. That's actually bad for you. You've got it all back.

Cool.

All right, first question, guys. So the microphone's there. Just come up, ask anything you like.

Go for it. Jimpenman.com.au. You can actually see the link video.

It's on YouTube, Instagram, all that sort of stuff.

Yeah. Hi, Jim. One of the biggest advantages that I believe that we have as a Jim's franchisee is that the call center is here in Australia. Are there any calls being taken overseas at the moment? And do you have any plans on moving the call centre overseas? We've got 10 people answering calls in the Philippines, which we've frozen at that level. We're just trying to train them. Look, there's two reasons for that. One of them is we'd love to go 24/7, and because of the way Australian employment law works, that's almost impossible in Australia. And the other thing is you get a surge, and the great thing about Philippine staff is that you can put them on when you need them and then they go and do other jobs too, which you can't do in Australia as well. So we always intend to have the great majority of our calls taken in Australia, and it is better, but we are trying to train people in the Philippines to take them. It's quite difficult. It's a lot more hard to do it. Not so much the accent, it's more just the culture, you know, just knowing what to say to a client, how to deal with a difficult client, those kind of things.

But divisions like mobile mechanics, like 24/7 roadside service—

Yeah, we do miss out on work because of that, and that's a problem. It really is. But you just can't do it in Australia. There you go.

That's it. Good question as well. Nice first one as well. Really good one. If you got a question, guys, feel free to come and ask Jim. Yep, go for the mic.

Go for it.

Yep, just jump up.

Hi, Jim. My question is, since from a small beginning, you've been a true inspiration to all of us. So my question is, how do you remain grounded? You know, I spend a lot of time talking to you guys, actually. Funnily enough, I don't know any wealthy people outside of Jim's group, 'cause some of my franchisors have done very well, franchisees, but I don't have any connection with the broader business community. I just know you people, my franchisees, and I contact franchisees all the time. I just spoke to, I must have been about 4 franchisees just today. I had some sort of contact with them, so I'm always hearing from franchisees. I think that's very important too. People think it's very strange for a CEO to give their phone number and email address to, you know, nearly 6,000 people. But actual fact, it works really well because what matters to me is how you're doing, what problems have you got, you know, what issues. There's a guy rang me just today because he's had an accident and he wants to get his suspension suspended. So I was talking with him about that and about talking to the franchisor and what's involved, and he needs to send a medical certificate through. There's another guy who wants to transfer from one division to another, so he's been asked to pay a certain amount of money by the franchisors. So I've been talking to the franchisors and said, look, can we let him off this? Or if not, I'm suggesting that he could go to a different region where they won't charge him. I just give that an example, those two things that happened the last couple of hours. I must say also, in the last couple of hours, two people have rung my phone number who have no right to it, and I was very rude to them. I told them we would never do business with them at all. So never give out my phone number, all right?

Yeah, they're not— you get pretty— yeah, pretty, pretty aggressive.

Yeah, I'm very aggressive. I'm not nice at all when somebody rings me who's got no right to.

You always go, who gave you my number? Yeah, you get pretty, pretty fired up, with the final words being get lost.

Yeah, pretty much.

Come up, go for it. You got a question? Yeah, we've got heaps of time.

Go for it. Uh, you spoke up this morning about how you started, and I'm seriously, um, inspired by your story. And you said something like, I didn't know that it's going to be this big, something like that. And now you, you said you don't have any, uh, uh, plan to take, uh, take down, resign, or whatever. I do intend to step down. No, no, I do intend to retire one day. Yeah, yeah, but you said you're not in about 20, 30 years. So you'll be here. We're going to have a ceremony, my retirement ceremony, and I'll be the guest of honor, and I'll be in a box, okay? I'll be dead. That's my retirement ceremony. So I do intend— I'm not going to live forever. I'd love to. I'll try it if it's possible. Yeah, so while still you're there, what are you— what do you see for the company, and especially for the— where the division I am going to be, the laundry, What do you wish, visions? We just need to get better. That's the one thing that's in my mind every day. How can we get better? Now, a good example of that is Jimbo. We've spent millions of dollars developing this program, which I hope you're all going to be using. And over the next couple of months, we're going to have some really significant changes. One of them is we're going to make it possible, if you wish, instead of promising the client a callback, to have it booked straight into your diary. So the client gets not a promise of a callback, but an appointment. Now we believe that alone could probably add something like 10 to 20% to your conversion rate. Just an example. Another thing we're putting through, it'll be through in the next couple of months, ability to sell regular clients, the rights to regular. Now that's a really valuable thing because what happens is our franchisees get, usually start working in a fairly wide area, and they get busy and they stop taking leads and that's not really good. What we want them to do is to take more leads close to home and sell off the surrounding areas. Now with this system, we're gonna be able to make it possible, really easy to flog off outlying clients and then take more and more close to home. That way, not only do you actually get cash which helps to pay your franchise fees, but you actually travel less and less and less and your hourly rate goes up and up and up. Now that's a big, these are just two big changes happen in the next couple of months. So we're investing very, very heavily. You'll see a notice in your bill saying technology fee. That doesn't even cover a fraction of it. We will be spending millions a year on developing a technology. So that's exciting stuff. So we're always looking how can we improve and in a year's time we'll do better than we are now. We'll have less complaints, we'll have hopefully a lot happier franchisees.

And the division the gentleman's going into is laundry services. Which has been a good story.

Yeah, Laundry Service is one of our great, it's been wonderful. We have a goal for a new franchise, new division to reach 30 franchisees in 3 years. Laundry reached 120 within 3 years. And it's a really good division because it's very, very good for, especially for women working from home part-time. 'Cause you got kids, it's quite difficult. You gotta go out and do a job And then you've got to come home and your kid gets sick and how do you handle that? Laundry is perfect because you pick it up, you bring it back home, you do your laundry. Now they can use laundromats but they can also use their own machines. So they're at home with the child and then they go out and deliver them. So it's a fantastically flexible kind of thing. It's very, very popular. Go for it.

Next one.

Hi Jim, so my question's not Jim's related but gym related. So if you could be any animal in the world, what would you be?

I'd be a rat. No, I really admire rats. I think that's a good question, actually. I like that one.

He's right, rats will remember it.

It's all right. I loved— look, the point about it is you look at pandas and, and, you know, elephants and all these, these exotic megafauna and stuff, and they're all only protected from by people, you know, otherwise they get wiped out in no time. The rats, everybody's against them. They try and poison them and trap them and do everything possible, and they still thrive. I reckon I really admire rats. I do.

Good question. Very good question.

Good question. Go for it. I definitely put that on my favorites.

I remember that.

Hey Jim, in your opinion, starting out a franchise, what would be the maximum amount of people you would try and service to maximize your time and profit without getting too—

What division are you going to do?

In the handyman division.

Handyman.

Well, it depends on the size of the jobs, basically, because handyman, you can get some fairly big— you've got to be aware if you haven't got a building permit, you can't do over $10,000. But you can quote a job for a couple of thousand dollars and you can work on for days. So it's really more a case of how many hours do you want to spend. My recommendation, unless you, you've got, you know, kids or something, but you need to go part-time, you should dedicate it 40 hours a week. That's a good, that's a good guideline. Now if you want to really get rich in a hurry, you can do more, um, but if you aim for that sort of time, you should be able to make a very good living but also have time for your family and other things too. One of the things I believe in too is that No other success can compensate for failure in the home. It's actually in the title of the book. And that's really important. And I think one of the things that we offer people, and it's very common for somebody to come from a corporate background where they get paid very well, for example, but they work ridiculous hours. And they travel an hour to get to work and an hour home and they don't see their kids growing up, this kind of thing. I think one of the great things about what we do is that you can earn a good living really good living and still have time for your family.

But the beauty of Jim's, you can turn off on Jim's Online how many clients you want. So if you're getting overwhelmed with leads, you can just jump in the system.

And being handyman, you'll probably get flooded. It's one of those divisions where we don't have enough people by a big margin. Dog wash is another one, actually. Um, others not quite as overloaded, but yeah. Good to have you. We need, we need more handyman.

That's right.

Yeah, we do. We could do with a lot more handymen.

Good one. Cool, we've got a question, guys. Feel free to come up and ask Jim. I've got one online here real quickly, which I'll read out. David's gone. Without zoning, what stops someone setting up a tyre recycling factory next to your house?

Well, they probably wouldn't want to anyway, because, because, um, the, um, it doesn't very suitable. You need similar businesses nearby, so it's very unlikely. I would say though, if you're going to have any zoning, it would simply be If you want to set up a factory, do it next to other factory. That'd be a very simple sort of rule. If you want to set up a big retail, do it on a main road. I mean, there's some very simple things that don't stop people from doing what they want to with housing. Nobody's going to have a— there's never going to be a system where there's no zoning at all. It should just be sensible things like, you know, well—

Come up, go for it.

This is Craig. This is Craig. Hello, Jim. How would you describe your leadership style, and what sort of leaders would you like to see in your franchisees? Okay, my leadership style is from the Gospels, and that is Jesus washing his disciples' feet. That is the idea of servant leadership. Washing feet in those days was a really degrading dirty job, only done by slaves and very low-caste people. Occasionally, a revered rabbi, his disciples would wash his feet as a sign of respect. Jesus washed his disciples' feet. That was a very radical thing to do. And that is the vision, that is the model we have for leadership in Jim's. We are not there as the bosses, we are there as the servants. Our job as franchisors is to help my franchisees to be successful. That's overwhelmingly, and that's the kind of people I want. You want franchisors who are dedicated. And on the whole, not 100%, on the whole, that's pretty good. We had some years ago, a guy called Brian Duckett came from the UK and he'd been involved in dozens and dozens of different franchise systems over the years. He came to one of our national conferences and he said, Jim's is like nothing I've ever seen. And the one attitude that was common is that the franchisors there were so dedicated to their franchisees. Culturally it's very different.

Awesome. And that's the same for franchisees at their level?

And yeah, and what we find is franchisees will react to that by helping other franchisees, which is very, very common. So when you go to a meeting, you actually are talking with people who are leaders in themselves because they're the ones that are experienced. And you've got a problem and they'll say, okay, how do I— you say, how do I do this? And they say, well, I had the same problem, I do this. That leadership thing, that mentoring thing is very powerful with us. I hear a lot of those stories.

Go for it.

Go.

Next one. Who's next up? Yes.

Go for it.

Hey Jim, my question is like, you know, considering today's world with automation and everything, you know, people losing their jobs and all, has Will this affect Jim's Group in a positive way or a negative way?

Positive way.

And one more question is like, as we have— there are a lot of franchise businesses if you take like, you know, McDonald's or any Uber or anything. I have seen everybody having R&D departments. Has Jim's Group got one R&D department? And if so, what it is focusing on right now?

Have we got an idea?

R&D, was it?

R&D.

Research and development.

Research and development.

Yeah. Okay, first question. Automation is good news for us because we are not short of clients, we are short of franchisees. And the kind of work we do is probably the last thing in the world that would ever be automated. You could all sorts of white-collar jobs, they're very heavily— robots in factories, yes. But to go and do the kind of jobs that we do, going out, contacting clients, giving quotes, Unless you have a robot that's fully as capable as a human being, it's impossible to imagine. So we have actually seen as automation goes ahead, the good thing about it is this: we lack people. And our best times are actually recessions, not the good times, the recessions, because people get thrown out of a job and they need somewhere to go and they need an income. So we're doing particularly well in New Zealand, for example, for the same reason. We're growing very fast in New Zealand because the economy is bad. And we did really well in the '90s recession, the Keating recession. We did really well then. So that will help us a great deal. What was the other question?

R&D department. Do you have research and development department?

No, no, that's just me.

That's probably franchisees who come to you with suggestions and ideas as well and you develop them.

Yes, very, very grassroots. Our big expenditure is in IT. We have a whole lot of people working on IT, on better systems and stuff, but that's all feedback from franchisees because a franchisee has an idea for a change to the system. They'll come to me or sometimes go direct to IT, and then we'll look at that and we'll try and bring it in. So we get constant feedback from people. So that's kind of like our R&D, isn't it, really? It's more, more just what do you guys want.

And there's one last question, uh, it might sound silly, but, uh, You know, with such a billion-dollar revenue and 5,500 franchises of Jim's group, we have come this far. May I know the reason why Jim hasn't gone IPO or like, you know, public or something?

That's a really good question actually. The problem with the IPO, the going public, is that as soon as you do that, you've got shareholders who are focused on short-term returns. I'll give you an example. I've just finished reading a book about Nvidia, which is this great chip company. And reading back a few, you know, decade or so back, it was a public company and the investors were saying, look, you've got to stop this rubbish about going so much research, research, research. You've got to make more money. You've got to start buying back shares and giving out dividends. Stop investing so much. Do something to boost your share price so that we can get rich. Now, this Jensen Huang, the He said, "No, I'm not gonna do that." He just refused to do it. He said, "No, our company is by nature one that grows because we do great things." So they invest and they invest and they invest. And it's now a trillion, multi-trillion dollar company. That's the goal for Jim's. It's 100% owned by me. I have no shareholders. I have no need to reach certain profit targets. We don't have profit targets. We never think that way. So we need to spend money on IT, on anything at all, yes, we're going to do it. A simple question, what's in the best interest of franchisees? Now in the long term, we'll make more money that way, but that's never the goal and it never should be. So I think public companies have a big problem. It's a really good question.

Very good one. Thank you for that. Gaffit.

Hi, Jim. I have another Jim question. So if you could live forever, with guaranteed health, would you do it and why? And like, what would you want to achieve in that time?

Oh wow, of course I would. Yeah, absolutely I would. I would love to live forever. I very carefully follow anything about longevity, extended life. I'm an avid, avid reader. In fact, the Google— the Google, when I go and Google, it gives me those things because it knows I'm interested in them. So absolutely I would. I would find so many interesting, wonderful things to do. My life is very full right now. I've got my business, which gives me a real sense of meaning. I like— how amazing if I could go on making gyms better forever. That would be incredible, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it be amazing? Just constantly improve what we do. And I've got my research project, which is to do with changing people's character for the better and solving problems like drug addiction and those kind of things and depression and so forth. That's a real passion of mine. Most of my income actually goes to that. I only live on about 10% of my income. The vast majority goes— I live a good lifestyle, but not much different from a lot of my franchisees actually. Do my own— hang out the laundry, do the washing up, gardening is a hobby, hate travel. So I live a very simple life and I invest in research. So my life is full of meaning and I would continue to have that. I'd always find something really worthwhile to do. A good life is not one that's based on having a lot of money, let me tell you. It's based on doing something that's worthwhile, having a purpose in life, having a meaning. And anywhere you read about happiness, it'll tell you that. Don't think that you're going to be happy because you have a bigger car or a bigger house or fancier clothes or more expensive holidays. None of that. None of that's helpful. But having a sense of purpose, having connections, having people that mean something to you and you mean something to them, they're the things that matter. And I'm a very happy person. I could live for another 1,000 years very happily doing And more?

Very good question. I think we've had that one before asked that way.

No, that's very good. We're getting something.

I don't think your routine would change that much over 1,000 years. I reckon you'd be doing exactly the same thing.

Go for it.

Hi Jim, I'm Rosalind. I'm from Druun Dog Wash and a new franchisee, hopefully. Um, I guess you've just actually gone toward the topic I was going to ask you about, which was over the, the many decades of your business, your franchisees, um, what has been one of the memorable moments for you during that time?

It's difficult to point to one, but I think if you pointed to the thing that's most exhilarating is every month I sit down and I ring my veterans, people who've got 10, 20, 30 years. I get good stories, I pass on this guy, that's what I did last night, as I did just now, somebody from New Zealand who's just got 6 workers and he's just going gangbusters and he was so excited and happy. That kind of really just is a great sense of achievement. I don't think, I've never had financial goals, even number goals of franchisees. I just get enormous satisfaction from hearing those stories and we have Fantastic stories. You know, you get somebody who's going nowhere in life and suddenly they've got hope and they've got a future. And they, you know, people in their 50s who've never owned a house, they can afford to buy a house and a boat and their whole life turns around. They're seeing their kids grow up. That's the story that begins No Other Success, was one of those. They're the highlights to me, they really are. I get more joy out of those than anything else. You know, having the biggest franchise, what does that mean? But having people who are so positive. At the same time, sometimes people fail, and that's really hard to take. You know, I get told that I've got an extra million dollars tax to pay that I didn't expect, and then I have a chat with a franchisee who's failing and needs to get out. I mean, the second one upsets me a lot more than the first because this is money.

But if people are doing well, they should email you as well. That's what we encourage them to do.

When you've had one month, I want to hear from everybody here. And most of you are going to— you better all respond to me. And most of you will be telling me you're doing well.

If you've got a question, guys, feel free to ask Jim. We've got one more online. I've got a few online which I'll get to, but go for it first.

Could you talk to how important Joel, Charles, have been with their content and that sort of thing, explaining how successful the franchises have been and sort of turning you in from a logo into a real person? I was a real person before. Yeah.

I didn't plan this question, so I've got no idea.

Yeah, the money will come later.

Yeah, I didn't ask myself that.

No, Joel's fantastic. He's revolutionized it. I don't know, I'm not particularly good at picking people actually. The best people I get are often those who come from within. Joel started 12 years ago?

15.

15 years ago, just in the most basic menial jobs, you know, hauling files around, stuff like that. And then got another job when that fell over, helping insurance. And then he got interested in social media and he's developed these skills by himself. It's been revolutionary. We, the difference between pre, before COVID we had about 3,800 franchisees and it was more or less static for a while. Since Joel got going, our profile has just risen and risen and risen and the leads come in better. We get a lot more leads than we used to. We've got this magnificent material. We get fantastic franchisee recruitment from it. I really can't overestimate how powerful— I sometimes worry about saying these things because he might think he's doing so well that, you know, I need to—

No, I never think that. Never think that.

No, he's great actually. He's great. I've seen this young man grow. He's been amazing. He was a rather feckless youngster. He used to have, like the manager of a small department, and it was called the party thing, like party place.

I've learned a bit. I've grown up a bit. I've matured a bit, don't worry.

He used to go up to Thailand visiting a lot of temples. Nah, nah, nah. He's now married. He's got his beautiful little girl.

Yeah, little girl.

Yeah, that's right. And I'm sure they're going to have another half dozen more. He's got it. He's trying. His wife is, she's wonderful, very beautiful, much better looking than him, but still. I hope so. And it's just amazing what he's done. He's changed for the whole company. I don't think there's anybody, including myself, who's had a bigger impact on Jim's than than he has. Very fortunate to have him.

Thanks. I didn't— I thought it was going to be for Jim, so thanks. But, um, now we've been lucky. We've got Charles, who's, you know, does all the video. I've had Jake and Ben and a few other boys. Greg, you know, it's funny, one of our franchisees actually used to work in the video team. So Greg used to come out with me, how much money the people, everyone was making, and he became a franchisee and quit on me. Now he's making 4 times what he made with us. So it's good to see that as well. But the good thing for us is I get to meet everyone through training, and then 3 to 4 years later, because I'm still here, I can then interview them in 3 or 4 years' time and I hear that person say, you know, I was a bit unsure about it, but the video's got me here. But then they go, now it's way better, I'm less stressed, I earn more money, you know, I can see my kid more, I've got a house, that sort of thing. So it's really rewarding as well because I've been here for so long, I actually see people who come from training and then 5 years later I hear that sort of stuff. So it's really rewarding as well.

He got— when he got married, we had, we had the ceremony out there. I shouted the, the wedding and I got to give a talk to everybody and just told everybody what an amazing guy.

I appreciate it. It was very, very good. But no, I appreciate that question. But look, in regards to what we've done, the thing that was the key was all the stuff you hear now, I used to hear internally all the time, but we never put it online. So it's just like, why don't we start putting this thing online? And we started doing that. Then people, as you said, they don't ask anymore, is Jim real? Like, it's probably one of the least. We used to hear all the time, is he real? They get disappointed when they see we didn't have a beard and stuff. It's all gone now. But We put all that stuff online and then from there people become, because you're buying a business, it's a very scary time. So how can we build more trust? Well, actually hearing Jim talk about all his values and stuff, which I hear all the time, is gets people.

You know, a very funny thing about it is I'm kind of like this legendary great figure. People get to know me after a while, it's very, oh, Jim, you know, like this. You lose all awe of me when you get to know me better.

You lose all the lust of it. Yeah, exactly. That's right. Appreciate the question. Thank you very much. I didn't ask him to do that at all, so I'm a bit embarrassed, to be honest. So appreciate you doing that.

Yeah, I believe you. Millions wouldn't.

No, no, it's true. You want to come up and ask a question, guys? This is for you guys to ask him, so please feel free to come up and ask him.

Come through.

Have a think. I've got a few more. So David's gone, why not just do AI with the call center online? David online, come up, go for it. David online's gone, why not just do AI for the call center?

I just— not good enough, not even remotely close enough to do AI efficiently. Now we keep on getting pitched for that kind of stuff too, but it's just, just not good. I've tried— have you tried using some of these things? It's just frustrating. You keep repeating, it doesn't understand you. It's like some moronic idiot. I mean, they're a long, long way away from ever being able to replace call centers, I can tell you.

We're getting pitched them really hard, those calling agents. Oh, they do, they do. It just wouldn't work.

There's some things that just need the human touch. They're just not going to AI is good for some things. It's efficiency. We can get our programming, for example, we can progress faster because of it. It's good for some things. It's good for a lot of the stuff that Joel does, but some things— go for it.

So today we heard the voiceovers for the app. They were very funny.

Answer the phone!

We think I know the answer, but Did you enjoy making those voiceovers?

I enjoyed it. We enjoyed it.

We did it with Charles in the office and I was a bit like, why, who would want to have this? But that's actually been received pretty well.

So yeah, it was super funny.

I have a lot of fun. I love— I come in every week and we do things like that.

We do.

And do the answers to the, uh, to the social media stuff and things.

It's, you know, it's funny, that warning, I was actually out on the job filming with the cleaning franchisee. We filmed with her and her husband, and then during the job, the actual warning come on "This is your 30-minute warning from Jim, and we've actually got it on camera." So I was a bit, "Where's Jim Penman?" I forgot about the ringtone, so we've actually got that on there. So please don't get that message, turn it off if you need to.

No, it was really, really funny. We really enjoyed listening to it. And it got more and more severe. Anyway, so my second question is, we hear you have a very sweet, timid, and well-behaved dog. So we're wanting to know, would you recommend that we perhaps approach you for the free dog wash experience? Your dog specifically.

Okay, the only thing I tell you is make sure you've got injections for tetanus and everything else, because my dog is known as being the worst behaved dog ever known in the dog wash division. We had one lady who was actually a specialized trainer. Yes, who came along. This was in a division that's now been rolled into dog wash, and she got so badly bitten there was blood falling down her arm. Apollo has bitten me, he's bitten everybody. This is a monster of a dog. Now I have to say that if he got run over, I wouldn't necessarily be grief-stricken, except that my children, my daughters would never speak to me again. So we're really, really careful to make sure he doesn't.

Why is the dog so aggro then? Why is it so aggro? Is it just protecting the horses?

He's friendly most of the time, you know, he loves to have his tummy rubbed and he's always jumping around wanting food and everything else. He's like a normal dog, but he bites people.

We've got a few videos, how to train an aggressive dog, how to dog wash an aggressive dog, and it's actually using Jim's dog. So I'm going to put that video up.

Yes, very, very challenging. Actually, he's not as bad as he used to be. Getting him, getting— because he's a Kaboodle, so you have to shave him kind of thing, like a poodle. And that's really quite a challenge. He's getting a bit better. He's getting a bit less bad, put it that way.

It's like the final boss in Jim's Dog Wash with all the dogs, if he's Jim's dog.

By the way, if you ask multiple questions, you get multiple picks.

That's very true. So you got a question, guys, feel free to come up. We got plenty of time. Got a couple online, Jim, real quickly. So Melissa's gone. Melissa Lee from Jim's Dog Wash and Grooming in Wallan, so a franchisee, which is great. What daily habits have helped make you successful?

Running, exercise, very much so. Cold showers, moderation in eating. So I don't put on weight. I think it's really important to do those kind of things. I don't drink or smoke, don't drink coffee. I think they're all— drugs of any kind are bad for you. I just, yeah, a good life is a disciplined life, setting up really good habits of work. I have challenges, like I'm not an incredible workaholic by nature, but some things I need to do, like work on my book, I just make myself have a habit. You've got to do a certain amount every day, that kind of thing. So habits, doing what is right rather than what's easy or pleasant or whatever.

But that routine you're saying, you're real strict, you don't miss. Like, it'd be very rare that you miss anything what you're saying. It's not just 5 out of 7 days, it's 7 days every day.

Yeah, unless I'm really sick or something, but that's maybe once every couple of months. Yeah, no, I do it. It's personal daily habits. There's some wonderful books on this sort of subject. Actually, if anybody's interested, have a look at— I think it's on my website, jimpenman.com. Have a look at my favorite books. There's some really great books in there, things like Tiny Habits, Atomic Habits, those, a lot about how to live a better life. It's one of my big themes. So yeah, go for it. Along the same sort of lines, Jim, given the current climate and stresses that are out there that everybody's going through on a daily basis, what do you do to relax? Gardening. I love gardening. I've got a couple of acres, I've got a little farm out there, and I'm just going out there just digging. I just enjoy digging. I'm digging, trying to get rid of the bracken fern at the moment. I've got a veggie garden too, so I've just been weeding it and trying to grow tomatoes and staking them up and just gardening. But I don't— I'm not stressed. I love what— I love my life. I have a really, really great life. I don't really like holidays either. I just notorious for being anti-holiday, but to get out there and garden and think, it's just, it's just fantastic. I feel a real sense— I love being out in nature. I'm a natural gardener. I enjoy it. That's why I was a lawn mowing contractor, because it's such a great job. You're, you're in the—

among us, handyman.

Oh, you're handyman. Sorry, handyman. Yes, that's right. Yeah, it's good. You've got to do what you love. People often ask me which division is of cars. Are you an electronic man? Do you like fixing? Whatever. What do you like doing? Do that. In the end, you'll have a better life and you'll probably make more money too. Great answer.

Yeah, good question. If you've got a question, guys, feel free to come up and ask. We've got some time. You get a prize if you ask a question. So there's Monopoly, there's beers, there's shirts. Just ask anything you like to Jim. It's for you to ask him anything. Go for it.

G'day, Jim. So most franchisees, wide and varied skill set.

Do you think that it's more important to have a base of skills or a good attitude? Nice question, never had that one before.

Attitude. Attitude every time. I don't care where you come from. Look, I am no natural businessman. I have very major problems with lack of social skills, those kind of things. I'm pretty socially blind a lot of the time. I am not particularly knowledgeable about gardening even. I just don't know a lot of stuff. There's many reasons why I should fail, but I think the thing that I've got is I have this attitude that says I'm very passionate about customers or as a franchisor about franchisees and I always want to improve. And that sense of, I think one of the most underrated values in business is humility. You've got to be able to look at yourself and say, how can I do better? I'm not good enough. We've got to improve. We've got to do better. No level of service is ever good enough. And I see a lot of complacency. So attitude is everything. Character is everything. People grossly overestimate the value of intelligence too. That's one of my bugbears. They think because you're somehow born smart like a Lisa Simpson or something like that. I love, I love The Simpsons, but my real hero is Montgomery Burns. But the point of it is, it's this stupid idea that it's all got to do with brains. You're sort of born with it or you don't. No, I don't care about intelligence. I care about character. Character matters. You know, there's a study they did, a guy called Lewis Terman, many decades ago, did this experiment where they tested and tested kids to find the absolute most brilliant kids they could possibly find. And they were called Termites because they were done by this German guy. So he expected these kids were going to get special care and treatment and they'd become the leaders of tomorrow. Now you know what was astonishing? There were two people that he tested that later went on to win Nobel Prizes. Both of them failed. They weren't good enough to get into his group. Whereas the ones that did had respectable enough careers, you know, they were judges and stuff, they were smart enough, but they weren't exceptional. So this whole idea that intelligence matters, that what you inherited, you know, your looks and stuff like that— I mean, look at me, for heaven's sake. It doesn't matter much. Attitude, character is everything. And you look at— if you could pick character, you could pick people who are just brilliant, like this guy, you know, didn't know anything, honestly. He was trying to do a law degree, which is about the most pathetically useful thing you could possibly do in the face of the planet. I think you've got— have you got the order?

Yeah, I did do my law degree. Yeah, I've finished it.

You finished your law degree? That she could be qualified as a lawyer, but I don't think he's tempted.

No, definitely not.

The point of it is didn't know anything but was willing to learn.

Well, throw back to the franchisees, because I interview a lot of franchisees, and most of the franchisees I interview who are really successful, they all start from, you know, dropped out of school. They, yeah, didn't know what they wanted to do. So it's all Dan Cale.

Somebody mentioned Dan Cale is a perfect example, school dropout. He's the guy that society looks at and says, "This guy's useless. He'll never achieve anything." He's running mowing division right throughout Australia and I want him to take over New Zealand as well.

He's extremely well.

He's a multimillionaire. He's in his early 30s. I have no idea how far he'll have gone by the time he's my age or anything close. But he's just an amazing guy. It's all character. A lot of that was just— this is a kid who couldn't study. School dropout, high school dropout. I dropped out in year 10. Yeah, yeah. Worked for McDonald's for a while, which is good training, and bought a lawn mowing business 10 years ago.

No, I think it's like 8 years ago, 7 years ago.

Yeah, just with great trepidation, just not sure whether it was a good mistake, good, um, decision or not. And just turned out to be absolutely brilliant franchisee, brilliant franchisor, great divisional. He's just got it. It's character all the way. And I haven't any idea how smart he is. He's not obviously not stupid, but he's got incredible character.

Check out the podcast, there's a good interview with Dan. Someone else had a question who was up there before, I think. The dreadlocks, I think you had a question. Can't miss the hair, like that's probably the best hair I've ever seen coming through here.

Yeah, my name is Pelle, uh, I'll be on, uh, Mobile Mechanic.

Mobile Mechanics.

So the question is, with the success of the business with Jim's group, um, have you had any uh, sort of regrets, or maybe something that you have regretted about, or the most, um, in achieving, uh, success in the business?

Yeah, I made a lot of bad mistakes. I, I have a bad habit of, um, going into businesses I don't really understand that well. They look, they look great, like Trade Exchange. You tried a couple of times, that was terrible. A factory to make fiberglass trailers, set up a psychology institute. I mean, there's a of the few things that I've done. I just, it looks attractive and exciting and you don't understand how hard they are. I've done best when I've stuck closely to what I know, which is basically my gardening business and out from that. I have made so many mistakes. I just, actually if you read the book, you'll see quite a few of them too. I talk about them. Interesting thing, I think that's important to recognize. One of the people I most admire is Warren Buffett and his partner Charlie Munger. Berkshire Hathaway. And if you actually— this is a guy about 1,000 times more successful and clever than I am, but if you look at him, he's a very humble man. He talks about the things that he's— mistakes that he's made and things he should have done differently. He doesn't big-note himself. He's a great guy. Lived in the same house for decades. So does Charlie Munger, who's dead now, of course. But that kind of thing I admire. People shouldn't be You know the nicest compliment anybody ever gave me? Somebody who knows a lot of quite well-off people, he said, "Jim, you're nothing like any rich man I know." Good question, got a question, guys, feel free to come up.

We've got a few online from people I want to get to as well, but if you've got a question, feel free to come up as well. Michael's going, "I'm currently using Jim's Jobs but want to swap to Jimbo, but I'm worried about the teething problems when you do think about, do you think it will be capable of changing over?" So he's on Jim's Jobs, which is the older one, and he wants to go to the new one. Will his data come across?

Yeah, we've got a good— we've got a program, and IT will help you all the way.

So email infotech@jims.net, get them to help you.

Infotech@jims.net. It's, it's— look, it's, it's great, and it's getting better, and it's got more and more features. Look, we've spent a lot of time developing it flat out. Um, we get to a stage where we aim to— we're going to actually continue and even accelerate the progress because there's more and more stuff it can do. And every week that goes by, this program becomes better and more capable.

I'm hoping zero integration is out soon, which is a big one. Zero integration.

Well, zero is being tested now actually. That's the last major thing. But within 2 or 3 months, we'll have an accounting program built into it, which will cost nothing. There's no zero, there's no mod, there's nothing. So anybody who uses Jimbo won't need anybody else except they'll need obviously the services of Jim's bookkeeping, which is a fantastically good But as far as the technology is concerned, you won't need anything except Jimbo and your Jim's Bookkeeper.

That's right. Got a question, guys, for Freak Out and Ask Jim? We've got time. I'll keep reading through online.

Yep. Uh, my name's John. Um, I saw you on one of the podcasts with regard to COVID and, uh, your comments that you made regarding the government at that time. I was wondering if you had any backlash, uh, regarding that and Moving forward, if that happens again, what are your thoughts? Well, I think there's a lot of backlash online. Two of my daughters wouldn't speak to me for months. That was the hardest part, it really was. And they're both wonderful now, we get on like a house on fire, but they really were upset at me. They got really angry at me at the time. That was hard. But it's funny, you know, in public people come up to me all the time and they often congratulate me and thank me for that. One of the things I most appreciate too is when independent contractors say that. They said, "You stuck up for us, you stuck up for the industry." So I haven't— I think overall it was good. The thing about it was when I first took that stance, it was very unpopular. I got a lot of very really negative—

The Seven News thing, because we did a big press pack in front of my old house, and then that's the one that went on.

They cut out, they made it seem like I was telling people to disobey the law, which I wasn't. In fact, we've been very careful since then ever to actually record all interviews complete to stop it being distorted. But the interesting thing is when I first took that stance, it was quite unpopular. There was a lot of flak. As time went on, people just started looking and saying, why have you got people in groups going out there doing gardening work together, and you've got individual contractors working by themselves without contact with anybody who are forbidden to work? That kind of stuff got people's goat after a while, and there was more and more reaction. And as time went on, what was quite an unpopular argument became overwhelmingly popular. And I think actually, when you talk about the next epidemic is good, because there will be another one. There will be something else coming on. And I think one of the things we've hopefully learned is these insanely restrictive lockouts don't work. They don't. It was just a very stupid overreaction, what we did. The one country in the world that didn't have any legal restriction at all during COVID was Sweden. And guess which country in the world had the fewest excess deaths? Sweden. I think we've learned a lot. And I know one of the reasons that I took such a stance is because it will happen again, and next time we're going to be a lot more sensible about it. I was just a bit shocked by the spinelessness of the Australian population. When that first came out. I mean, if you read stories about Tobruk and stuff, we were incredibly vigorous people. We were very, very— we were heroes. That generation was amazing. They just wouldn't put up with anybody, any garbage. They just, just irreverent to authority. What a great people we were. There's a wonderful book called by a guy called Peter Fitzsimons about Tobruk called Tobruk. Um, I just can't get over the way people were so spineless about it. And then you've got the ABC, which is supposedly representing Australians, just, just completely kowtowing spinelessly to the government without any sort of, of sense, without any science behind it or anything like that. I hope people will have a bit more guts in future. I really do. The second part of the question is moving forward, Libertarian Party nominee Do you think there'll be a backlash against you with regard to your stance previously and how that'll affect things moving forward? Well, the interesting thing is my one subject that I'm on about is zoning. I'm fanatical about zoning because it's a solvable problem. And one of the reasons that I think it's solvable is because our reaction, we have never had any stance that I've ever taken which has been more popular and less in terms of reaction. It's like 96% in favor when I say we should have zoning relaxation so we have affordable housing, affordable rents. Overwhelming majority would agree with me. We want a society which is fair. We don't want a society which plunders the income of ordinary people with massive mortgages and gives it to wealthy property owners. That's not what Australians want. I think it's actually, it's an idea whose time has come, and it can be changed. Back in 2017 in Auckland, they actually launched this sort of thing too, to relax the zoning. Not as much as they should have, but they did to some extent, spread throughout the rest of it. They reckon that the rents are 40% less than they would have been if they hadn't done that. Minneapolis in America did the same sort of thing. So it is possible. It's not necessarily a left versus right issue. I mean, I'm pretty much on the conservative side of politics, obviously, but when it comes to zoning, the Liberal Party is worse than Labor. Labor is at least making some steps. Liberal Party is stuffed full of wealthy capitalists, property owners funding it through these dinners and stuff like that. So they can't go against those people because they fund them. So that's why libertarians, because none of the major parties have got it.

Probably will get brought up, but we're focusing on that issue. So yeah, that's what happens. You might get a comment every now and again still from back then, which we do, but it's not that much at all. It might be one comment on a video which gets some views, but that's really it. But it's not that much.

It's a pretty popular thing here. I mean, if you look at it, there's not a lot of people really think that we should have houses getting more and more expensive and rents getting more and more expensive. You know, the really stupid thing about it is I'm actually the winner. You know, this property here and the one next door, I bought 23 years ago. It cost me just under $3 million. If it was kept in pace with inflation, which is reasonable, it would be worth $5.5 million. It's worth $10 million. Now what that means is that these zoning regulations have given me, a multimillionaire, $4.5 million worth of assets. Now I really couldn't give a stuff because I live here. And we lose this place anyway, so it makes nothing except security for loans. But why do that? And that does not make me happy, the fact that I have got an immense increase in my personal wealth, and we've got other properties too, my wife's a property developer, at the expense of battlers who could really do with that money a lot more than I could. So, I think it's possible, I do think it's possible, and I'm hoping that There were enough— Libertarian Party is a serious party. We intend to launch candidates in every electorate in Victoria. There's some really good people behind it. The policy is making extremely good sense. And I'm hoping— I don't expect us to win government or anything, but if we can put enough pressure on the major parties, the Greens and the Labor and the Liberals, to people to say, "Wow, maybe there's some votes in this sort of stuff." Maybe they'll start adjusting their policy and we'll have a fairer and better society. That's the big thing. I don't intend to become the premier. I'd be a terrible premier. I'd be even worse prime minister. And people always saying that, "Oh, Jim Penman, come on." I'm no politician. But by making a noise about something, there's potential we can really, really change society for the better. And I think we can. And even if we don't win, even if I don't win the seat, which I probably won't because—

Make a bit of noise. That's the thing.

—deep green election, the point of it, every time somebody puts a vote 1 for me, 2 for whoever it is. And the other person who wins, it doesn't matter because people look at that and say, "Wow, that's a popular stance. Maybe we should look at relaxing zoning." Yeah, good question.

I've got a question for Jim, guys. I think we've got time for a couple more. I've got a few online. If you've got anything at all, come up. I'll read the ones online real quickly. Melissa's gone. I'm going in order for those online as well, so trying to get to as much as we can. Melissa's gone. If you weren't allowed to run Jim's group, what would you do?

Who's going to stop me running Jim's Group?

Well, that's what I'm thinking. Who would do it? How would they do it? Who would they do it and how would they do it?

Well, I'd probably start another business of some kind, wouldn't I? I mean, business is fun. I think the better question is who would stop that? That's probably the better question. Who would stop me running Jim's Group?

That's right. Let them try. You got a question for Jim, guys, feel free to come up.

I'm a fairly cantankerous character when somebody gets in my way. I'm not all that nice. Good luck to them. Like somebody ringing me who hasn't got right to my phone number.

Now, Foot Patrol, Foot Patrol next up here's gone, ever thought of creating Jim's Venture Capital and offering some seed grants to try out some radical new divisions? Interesting question.

We don't need, we don't need money.

You sort of do it in divisions, you go new division. Start a new division.

I don't need money, I need people, you know, right in this room here. There could be somebody who's going to found a new division. Divisions tend to come internally at Jim's or somebody just approaches me. I'm very easy to reach by email, jim@jims.net. People just write to me and say, "I'm interested in doing this." If it looks good, I'll talk to them about it, talk about the business, does it conflict with other things, can we make at least $70 an hour, what's the potential? But then I look at the person, what's their experience, what do they know, what's their business background, if they're a franchisee, how good are they, how many people are they employing, Watch their turnover, watch their customer service rating, find a good person and the business can go. Like Bill Colburn, I agree with— Laundry. Laundry, or like the way Haydar, you know, Haydar Hussein started off. He was, when he came to us, he was cleaning. He was actually cleaning, he was mopping floors and cleaning toilets. That was his job. He was in it as a contractor, came to us, he's now running close to 2,000 restaurants. In the 2,000, yeah. And he's—

In 22 years, so not overly long. It sounds like it's long, but it's not really overly long to do that.

Well, no, but, but he's, he's, he keeps on buying houses. He buys a house every year.

He does all right.

He's got this, this holiday house in Cyprus and done well, which is great. It's a great guy, lovely guy. Go for it.

Yep. Um, I think this will be a continuation of that what you just discussed. Um, any plans on, uh, car refrigeration as a separate division?

Refrigeration? Car refrigeration?

Aircon?

Yes, but not cars so far, but we're doing heating and cooling Shortly, that's just starting up. But we'd do it if we had the right person to do it. The difficulty with things like that is it requires prior experience. So the divisions that, the big divisions are all ones where we can train you. You know, dog wash, cleaning, mowing, test and tag, fencing. You can teach people how to do those sorts of things. When you need to be previously qualified, we still have great divisions like plumbing, electrical, and those ones, but it's harder. So even though there's a demand out there, our problem is always finding franchisees.

Got a question, guys? Feel free to ask Jim. Yeah, go on, we're back again.

Yep, follow up on this one because, um, in my, in my case, I believe, um, car refrigeration or aircon is much easier to, to sort of run compared to a mechanic, a mobile mechanic, because it's basically a focused sort of skill, not Not like mechanics, we've got so many skills that we have to— or experience—

how long does it take to learn how to do it though? How long does it take to learn how to handle car refrigeration?

It's, it's, it's probably done— could be done in 6 months compared to being mechanic, which is probably about 2 years.

Yeah, but you still—

because it's only part of the system.

I know, but, but we— 6 months is too long. That's your problem. If you could do it in 6 weeks, that, that's barely possible. If you could work out a way to train refrigeration mechanic for a car in 6 weeks— I'm talking about a reasonably competent person which you want to be a franchisee— that would be a feasible division to actually get going.

I believe, I believe with the current sort of system and technology, maybe I think, I think, uh, 1 week is good enough. 1 week? 1 week?

Yeah, 6 months to a week.

6 days is enough, to be honest.

I tell you what, my friend, You get going in your division and you have a good business and you get great customer service rating, you give me an email and come and talk to me.

Because Jim will look at your rating, right? Customer service rating.

Yeah, I'll look at your service rating, first thing I do. Like when Dan put you up for being a franchisor, the first thing I did was look at your service rating. 5.0. Turning over close to $1 million a year. Good start. So I'll look at you, you're making good money, great service. That sounds interesting. It really does. You're right.

Why not? Got time for one more question, guys. Who wants to be the lucky last? Got a few online as well. We've got one more question for Jim. I'll read a few online, Jim, real quickly. So I'm going in order for those in line, so I'm not skipping anyone. Michael Rothery's gone, within a division, do franchises all pay the same fees or does it vary based on the time in the group, etc.? Within a division? Within a division, yes.

It depends on the franchisor. You can have— generally speaking, they tend to be the same, but franchisors do have a latitude. So you might have different fees in a rural area, for example, for most people. The lease fees can be different. Yes. Hi, how are you going? I'm a partner here, which is really interesting. So I'm not here as a business owner and my husband is the future business owner. My question is, and I'm sure it's been asked before, the startup costs that can be an obstacle for any business. How do most people do you find go about that? Managing that? Um, most people have the money or they can borrow it. When we're not— most people talking about 30 grand or so, 25, 30 grand is pretty typical, so they're not big costs. Um, our, our, um, our franchises have a fairly low turnover rate, so it's actually not too hard to raise. We've got a group called Button Finance which has been providing finance, and I don't know how many they've done, but we've just had the first one fell over That was all. And he made an accommodation with them. So it's actually, we have a very, very high success rate because of the pay for work guarantee. On the whole, we can get even unsecured finance for you because it's a solid business.

That's reassuring. Thank you. Good question. Got one more question? Yep. Yep, we'll make this the last one. Yep. Hi, Jim Penman.

I'm from the laundry division. Just wanted to ask you, So Bill's been going for about 5 years with this division. How's it going? Is it moving quite rapidly? Is it quick? Or—

well, it's a great division. Like I said, it's got— it's hit over 100 in 3 years. I don't know what it is right now, but it's, it's a great division. Bill is a very, um, 130, 130, 125. He's an amazing leader. It's, it's, it's complicated in a sense because, um, We tend to have really high turnover, which is just the nature of the people who do it.

Yeah, so I'm basically, I'm in Sydney. I own 2 laundromats at the moment. My aim was to do wash, dry, fold for personal use for my own business, but it's not going as I planned. That's why I've come for Jim's Laundry to expand my business, and I'm hoping it will work.

They've had a few videos online, I don't know if you've seen, with franchisees who've done exactly what you're saying, they've had existing laundromats and done this as a tack-on and stuff. Have you seen those videos online with the day in life and stuff? I'd check him out 'cause it's literally in that. Guy called Zach and another couple of guys. Yeah, I've heard about Zach. Yeah. But he's got his own warehouse. Yeah, he's got his own warehouse. There's another guy who has a laundry business which they did a Day on the Road with, with Berkey, I think last couple of weeks. That's a good one probably to watch too. And he has that set up as well.

I think there's only 23 franchisees at the moment for New South Wales.

Yeah, it's gotta look good opportunity. Yeah. I think it's 125 or 130 in 5 years is amazing. It's really fast growth. But I think that as the services that demand, I think it's something Australians are finally getting, they're feeling a bit more comfortable to outsource, which I think for me it makes way more sense to outsource that than the lawn, right? Yeah. So for me, but that's me anyway. But I think it's something which is picking up a lot more popularity now as well due to a few other things. Yeah.

We've got a lot of regular clients and it's good. Commercial jobs are especially good too. Well, that's what I'd like to target, commercial.

Um, well, the commercial— having the, having the brand when you do commercial and EOS type stuff is a lot. It's a bit— helps you with conversion.

Commercial is different. Commercial is usually where you provide the actual sheeps or whatever they are yourself. So, so they, they rent them, I think? Yeah, basically.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's how it's done.

But those, those commercial contracts are very popular, and, and if you can go out and get them, there's ways of achieving that, doing things through, um, like using LinkedIn. To find decision makers. That's good to know. Yeah, there's some good videos on that sort of stuff. Have a look. If you look at Jim's videos, you'll see a section under laundry.

Have you spoken to other franchisees in New South— in the area, New South Wales?

Um, there's one here. Yeah, cool. Um, there's another one, Julie. She's in the Reesby. Yeah, nice. Um, territory. Yeah, it's, it's quite new to me as well.

I think talk to just heaps of franchisees as possible is probably what you would say, wouldn't it?

Yeah, look, the great majority of franchisees are doing well. They've got good or satisfactory income. Some are doing spectacularly well, and we've had a few failures too. Just a case of looking at the business and just saying, who's successful, what are they doing, and learning from those and just starting. You sound like if you own a couple of laundromats, you're fairly experienced in business already, which is a plus, and you've got an obviously It's a feeder thing.

Self-serve is not feasible, it's not enough. You need to do more. So that's why I've—

well, you've got this expensive machine sitting there just idle, so to be able to use as a feeder. You can also approach other franchisees in the area and offer them a discount, which I know some of them do as well. Yeah, that's what I'd like to do. It's good. And that's— it's nice too, because if you can put the sign up, Jim's Laundry, a few of them branded as that.

Yeah.

That's a very powerful thing because customers have comfort and it spreads the brand, it gives them awareness.

Yes, good question. Thank you, guys. Well, thanks for the questions tonight. What we'll do is Jim picks his 3 favorite. Now, I'll just— before we go on, so Jim picks his 3 favorite, you get the first pick of the prizes, but everyone else who asks the question tonight, you get a prize at the end.

So take what you like, and if you ask more than one question, you can have more than one pick.

There you go, you have more than one. Yeah, that's right. And if you want to take a photo with Jim or anything, we can do it here tonight as well because is a big rush tomorrow.

Also, if anybody wants to chat to me, I've got no time. Sky, I have to be home, but he's allowed to stay out, so just come and talk to me afterwards. It's a good opportunity.

So what are your 3 favorite questions?

Actually, we had some fantastic questions today. I like the one about the animal, the rat.

Yep, I remember that one. So come up and take what you like. That's definitely what you like.

What was the next one? The question about the IPO, that was a good one too.

Why, when you listen to the ASX, I think it was you then.

That'd be an IPO.

I like that. And what's the next one?

And the one about living forever, 1,000 years. I thought that was fantastic.

Living forever, it was you again. Okay. All right. Everyone else asked a question as well, please feel free to come up and get it from Jim Penman. Thank you for your attention tonight. We do appreciate it. Thank you.