#ASKJIM Jim's Group founder, Jim Penman and Joel Kleber - www.jims.net - 131 546

$500 voucher. We've already picked 2 people. They booked a car detailing service and laundry service, so they've got $500, which I rang them today. They're very happy about as well. And anyone who signs up to the Jim's Group newsletter for the customers gets into the draw for $1,000 a week too. So we're giving money away. So all you need to do is go to jims.net and make sure you book. Now, Jim, before we get into everything as well, we've started putting out a bit of your libertarian type content, and we had one clip that we put out last Friday because we did the interview last week. It was basically about politicians needing to work from home. And he basically said, they're making rules on me, you know, I need to be able to make—

They've never run a business. They have no idea what it's like.

Correct. And around 400,000 views at once. So it went pretty viral, which was good. I'm sure they'll be happy with that. But guys, you got a question for Jim, please come up to the microphone, which is right there over here and ask him anything you like. Who wants to go first? Anyone got anyone? First one's always the hardest. Everyone's always a bit shy, sort of going, who's going to ask? But It's real easy. Awesome, someone's walking up. Great, Dogwash. Great, awesome.

First, I just want to say that I'm from Dogwash.

We can tell.

We won the stubby cooler. Give me one sec here, I've just, um, I've made my questions up.

Bit of a silence there, Jim. I probably got to fill it with something.

Yes. Yeah. Anybody else got anything?

Okay, I'm good.

All right.

I'm not talking to this, am I?

Yeah, just talk to that. Get your camera up, get your face in the camera there, and it goes on TikTok, and away you go.

Okay, um, Jim, my first question— I've got a couple, but I'm happy to share.

Do a couple, it's fine. Go for it.

Okay, so my first question is to do with global pressures and the libertarian vision.

Global pressures. They're two very different topics.

Just listen to the question.

All right.

Okay.

Looking at the world stage right now with global security tensions and the economic squeeze we're all feeling, you're very vocal in your 2026 campaign about cutting government waste and red tape through the Libertarian Party.

Yep.

For the 72 of us in the course and for all the other franchisees in the Jim's group. These aren't just headlines. They affect our overheads and our customers' wallets. How do you see your political path helping the average Jim's franchisee navigate these external shocks and stay profitable?

I can say we've never had that question before, so it's a nice original one. Top marks for that.

Well, in various ways. I don't think it affects Jim's franchisees more than anyone else. We're probably in a good situation because let's face it, being in business for yourself, you've got a lot more ability to minimize tax, put it that way, than you would normally. People who are stuck on PAYG can't do a thing about it. But look, basically we're being impoverished by this ridiculous, wretched government.

We really are.

The red tape, the tide of red tape is rising. By the day, there's more and more stuff coming on. There's these health and safety regulations. They got no concept of what works. You've got the franchising code, which is an absolute dog's breakfast. It really is. This massive, massive bureaucratic thing, this disclosure document we have to do. Everybody has to do it. I have asked hundreds of franchisees who's read it. I've got one person ever read it. It's completely useless. Whereas simple ways of doing things like putting out a survey to all franchisees in every division and putting them on the web somewhere would do an incredible amount for franchising. But the stuff they're doing, all it does is enrich lawyers and financial advisors who produce nothing of value. Housing is just terrible. We're paying double what we need to for housing. We're paying much more for rent than we need to. So anybody who wants to buy a house or who's a renter, is stung by this zoning. There are just so many ways. You could cut government bureaucracy in half with the most basic efficiency, and that's not even beginning to think about whether the things they do are worthwhile. Simple efficiencies, you could put tens of thousands back into the pocket of every Victorian. We just pay more and more taxes, more and more borrowing, more and more interest on the debt, and more and more crushing business. Victoria is the worst state in Australia for doing business. It really is. It's the most complicated, it's the most burdensome. It's a really shocking thing that this, this government has done. And, and the Liberal government is so piss-weak, if you excuse the expression. It's so pathetic. They don't stand for anything. Now, back, um, in the past, Jeff Kennett He did some things. Liberals since then, they're so useless. And they won't touch zoning because they've got too many well-heeled supporters who are just covering them, who've got multiple properties. They might only be a tiny fraction of the population, but they support the Liberal Party for the funding. So Liberal Party dances to their tune. They can't do anything about it. When it comes to zoning, I mean, Labor Party is terrible, but when it comes to zoning, The Liberals are worse. At least Labor's trying to do a little bit to take off the stranglehold. It's just bad. It makes me very frustrated. If I was going to launch a business, I would not— I had a choice, I would not do it in Victoria. It is a basket case and it's going to get worse and worse and worse until something happens. And every ordinary citizen— look, I'm not saying there aren't people that benefit, the elites, The bureaucrats, the high-level lawyers and stuff, they're doing fine. If you're looking at that 2 or 3% population who are sitting up there pretty with their hands on all the wheels of power, yeah, sure, it's good. But what about the rest of the 97% population? It's just a disaster. It really is. I don't know whether we can do anything. But the way I look at it, we're not likely to win power, but every vote that goes towards the Libertarian is a message to government. People care about housing. They don't want super expensive housing. They don't want high rents. They don't want their standard of living cut by needless bureaucracy. I just hope it'll make enough impact people will listen. The governments will listen.

My second question is to do with biohistory and organisational ethics. You spent decades researching biohistory, epigenetics, specifically how societies can lose their vigor and decline.

Yep.

You've often said that Jim's group is built on a foundation of servant leadership.

Yep.

Do you see the Jim's group ethics and values as a practical way to fight back against the social decline? Is our business model essentially a microculture designed to maintain the integrity that you feel the rest of the world is currently losing?

Very well researched. You've never had that question ever before.

This is a man who knows a lot.

Very, very good.

Um, we are somewhat old-fashioned. Look, one of the things that people have lost now is the ability to do manual work. It's the idea that people have to have a career, you've got to go to school, you've got to go to university, and you've got to spend your life sitting in front of a computer. That's basically the thing. What we've done is look hark back to a time when people actually did things. Like they work with their hands, they do useful jobs, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, gardeners, people who actually make something and do something physically. Often physical work, which is very old-fashioned today. So I think we hark back to an earlier and healthier time when that kind of thing was good. People take pride in doing manual. I like having calloused hands actually, I spend a lot of time doing gardening. I think that's great. I wouldn't like to have soft hands even though I am a keyboard warrior these days. But it's good, it's good. As to whether that's going to turn around society, I wish I could say yes, but no, it's not. Our society is so deeply corrupt. The wealth, the prosperity, the ease, the social media, the porn, the drugs, the alcohol, all the other stuff that's just dragging us down and down and down. I don't think— be nice if we could do something to stop that, but I think it's not happening. It's just not.

You can go ahead, go for it.

I do have a fourth, but it's to be asked right at the very end because it's going to involve the whole room.

Okay, right.

All right.

Okay, the third question is the Angel Wings legacy and the co-op proposal.

I haven't a clue what that means. What's angel wings?

We're going to find out. Okay, so you've shared your concerns about protecting the group's future once you earn your angel wings.

Ah, okay, all right, yes.

And you've opted for a family trust.

Mind you, if they, if they, if they manage to do anything to stop aging or reverse it, I'll be first in the queue, so I mean, quite a bit around another 100 years if I can make it, but go ahead.

And you've opted for a family trust to keep it safe?

As much as I can, yes.

But given your belief in serving the franchisees, have you ever considered a cooperative model? What if the 4,000+ franchisees across Australia became the true owners with equal shares, voting rights, and board eligibility? Wouldn't that be the ultimate way to make your values bulletproof and truly by the people, for the people, forever?

Well, yes, but most of my legacy goes to support my scientific research. So in effect, I'd have to give that away. I think the most important thing I can do with my wealth— listen, I don't spend much personally. We currently, my wife and I, live on about $300,000 a year, which is a good income. But it's not that different from a lot of my franchisees make. Most of my resources goes into my research project, which really has potential to help the world. That's what's going to happen. There's certain limited payouts to my children, nothing to make life too easy, just a little bit of help with housing and stuff. But most of it's going to the research, and I think that's the most valuable thing. Now, if that wasn't there, I could certainly look at a cooperative model of some kind. But as I said to you, we don't, we will put a, the way it's planned, the board of directors that will control Jim's Group will have a representative elected by franchisees and they'll have a full vote. And so they're going to be able to represent the interests of franchisees. But I have to say too, the actual profit that Jim's makes is not what you might think. We take about 1% of the turnover. Of the whole of Jim's Group. It's quite a tiny little margin, it's not huge financially. I think that's one reason it is successful, because we're not greedy. Fees are about 6%, our profit would be coming around about 1%. So yeah, look, it's a neat idea. I don't object to it, but at the moment my research would be the priority. And I don't know what's going to happen, there's a book coming out. Probably getting published about July this year called Birth Rate Crisis, which is an attempt to arouse public interest and support. If that's successful, things may change very quickly because people with much deeper pockets than me— we're faced with a terrible crisis right now. Our birth rate's collapsing. We're only having about two-thirds of the babies we should have just to replace ourselves in Australia. And Australia's a lot better off in South Korea, they're having about 1/3. And the birth rates continue to decline and it will decline because if you look at the opinions of younger people, it's just getting worse and worse. And there's other things too, like the rising rate of mental illness, the deaths of despair, those kind of things just getting worse as well. Economy is starting to stagnate and even go backwards. Richer people are becoming richer, which is not a good thing to happen. There's a lot of really bad things going on in the world right now. We're headed in a very bad direction. We've got to stop that. Otherwise we are so cactus. Now I won't be around to see it, but my children will and my grandchildren, and I don't want to see us go down the tube, which is what's happening. We've got a chance to fix it. If we understand what's going on, we know what to do about it, and there are solutions. But that's what JIMS is for, and that's why I developed it. I didn't do it to become rich. I didn't do it to have a fancy lifestyle. I don't have it. You know, these are $20 shoes from Kmart. It's not really— I don't live that well, but I have a mission. And I have a mission to look after you guys, but I also have a mission to the research project.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

I'll save that last question for the end of this time.

Keen to see what it is.

Thank you.

Very well-researched questions as well.

Yes, very impressive. Every question you picked You get one pick.

Yeah, you get one for each. Very, very good. Who's got the next question, guys? Feel free to come up and ask Jim anything you like. If you want to lighten up a bit, they're very serious, those ones. So yeah, come on, go for it. Yes, come up and ask Jim anything you like.

Yep.

That was pretty full-on. But, um, other than mowing, did you do any other services or streams in your career?

Nope. I'm a gardener. That's it.

What about carpet cleaner? You carpet cleaner one day?

Oh, I had to go at carpet cleaning once. I absolutely hated it. Really terrible. Terrible job. I hated working inside. I just didn't like it at all. I had a go, actually bought a truck pump machine, gave it away after a few weeks. It was awful. But it's just the case of what's horses for courses. I talked to cleaning people and I say, why would you want to work indoors when you could be outside in the fresh air and the sunshine? And they say, come on, Jim, why would you want to be out there when you're going to get rained on and you have dog poo and all the rest of it? So it's horses for courses.

And another one, um, how did— how do you decide what services to add? Because I said in the lecture theater, is it one service a year or something or rather? Um, and there's 50 divisions. Yeah, the divisions. So how do you decide what ones to add?

Oh, it's just based on who approaches me. Yeah, I'm very easy to contact, jim@jims.net. People just email me. So about a week ago, somebody approached me about caravan repairs. I had never ever thought about it, but they talked about what it was. They talked about the hourly rates, which was about $140 an hour. I thought, "Wacko, that's good." These people know the business very well. Training they can do only takes like a few days to teach the basic skills, so easy to train, so it's very important. And these people look like terrific divisionals because they're in the industry, they've got contacts right across the country. And they can see that their vision— because they've got a shop, they've got a place people come to, but they can't always bring the caravans in. So this is a mobile service. So good idea, very good potential divisionals. I don't know, they're booked in for May. I don't know if it's going to go ahead or not, but that's just an example that happened last week.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

People reach out all the time— LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok— and then basically, if it sounds good, the great majority I say no to.

And of those that I'm interested in, quite a few don't go ahead. At least half just don't go ahead. We had so many epoxy floors, for example, that were interested but they never went ahead. There's someone else looking at one of our mowing franchises, looking at that one. So many out there. We had somebody come up with battery recharging, which I thought was good, introduced them to a few franchisees who might be able to take it. It just went quiet, went off it. So you just don't know. But the main thing is you've got to have a basically division that doesn't compete with existing divisions directly, but you've got to have a great divisional. So there could be somebody in this room now today who might one day come up with a new division. Who knows? Yeah, good question. Good question.

Thanks, that one. Got a question, guys? Feel free to come up and ask Jim anything you like as well that's on your mind. Got a couple online real quickly, Jim. Um, someone's gone, why is it called Jim's Mowing or Jim's Group instead of David's Mowing, David's Group?

Because that was my name. Well, when I left home, I, um, I decided to change my name to Jim. It's had a bit more— I don't know, a bit more—

that's when you're 19, 18, wasn't it? When you're up in— yeah, yeah, yeah.

I worked on a farm and there was a young guy my age called David, so I said, oh, call me Jim. That's my second name. And I kind of liked it. It's never been James. I would not be called James. James is like butler. Jim is kind of like a bit macho, a bit earthy, bit of a salt of the earth Aussie. I just like that, that image, so I've always called myself Jim. My parents never got used to it, and elderly relatives still call me David, but Jim's my name.

Yeah, thanks for that one, Sam Online.

David's Mowing wouldn't go across so well, don't you reckon? I just think Dave's Mowing has to be Dave's Mowing. Dave's group.

Dave's Mowing.

Yeah, I don't know, used to call me Daggy Dave at school.

It wasn't very flattering.

Hi Jim. Hi Joel. Good to see you both. I guess you've seen 5,500 franchisees or probably more when, you know, that have come and gone since. But if you break it down, what would you consider the top 5 traits of a successful franchisee?

Well, a passion for customer service really comes up pretty high. A lot of it's the attitude of learning. The biggest single thing, apart from customer service, is the attitude that you look at what you're doing and say, "How can I do it better?" That really is key. And good franchisees, the best ones, are people just always looking at it, no matter how good they are. Like I was talking to you this morning about the Tom, Dick, and Harry, the 3 guys who did the— about upselling. So that is probably the single most thing. You need somebody who's emotionally stable. We do have problems, people who get depressed go downhill in a hurry. That makes it very hard for them because you don't have the support of somebody like in a workplace where people alongside you and there's this secure salary and your boss telling you what to do. So you've got to be self-motivated to some extent. You've got to have a supportive partner. I would say if you're not, we love partners to come here actually, we don't charge. Well, actually partly we do that, it's very self-interested because quite often partners decide to get a franchise themselves. It happens a lot, different divisions. So we're not entirely naive about feeding you for free. But having a supportive partner is really, really important. But, you know, things like the standard stuff. Young single people are the most dangerous. If you've got somebody who's got a family, who's got a spouse, who's got children, who's got a mortgage, then they tend to be a lot steadier. I was pretty useless at business until I got married. So you've got a good partner back there, you're in support? Is that right?

Yeah, we work hard together.

That's good, that's good. Yeah, it's great. I work closely with my wife Lee, and that's wonderful. We're always talking about business and stuff. It's really interesting. So yeah, just one other question.

So what do you envision Jim's group to look like in, say, 10 years' time, and what role would AI play?

More and more, actually. The biggest change is going to be technology. We have some amazing things coming up with Jim Penman, and even by the end of the year, it'll be a different business, I hope. Things like, we have a big problem that you can't reach clients. You can't get through to them. You get the call and you ring them and ring them and they don't answer. That's quite a high proportion. We are planning to have a system within a couple of months where the job can be booked as an appointment into your diary. Now, it's based on what we know about where you're gonna be and so forth and how much time you've got and the rest of it. So it's very experimental, but That alone could increase their conversion rate by 20%. And it stops them bringing somebody else. Things like that. Ability to sell regular clients is going to be huge for divisions that have them, like dog wash, mowing, cleaning, and so forth. So one of the problems we have is people get filled up with work and they stop taking new leads. But they're traveling. So what we'd love to be able to do is to say, okay, why don't you sell off the outlying areas, clients, pay a couple, 2 or 3 months fees, so you don't have to pay any fees for too much, and then start taking your territory in close to home. Now that alone could be tremendously useful because you pay less fees but also travel less and you keep on doing it and you're travelling less and less and business starts to get better and better. That kind of thing is really helpful. The customer service things in gyms, like reminding franchisees if they haven't returned a phone call or haven't turned up, making it really easy to let clients know, those kind of things. If we can see the technology improving on that, that's going to be incredibly exciting because we can just produce better and better outcomes. That's the easiest way. Digital Jim, that's been very successful and that's going through. If you look at jimpenman.com.au, you'll see the— you can ask me any questions. And by jeebus, I tell you what, it's a good system. I ask questions myself about all kinds of things.

You do test it, I know. I know you test it all the time.

I test it. Well, I'll just give you an example. I asked a question the other day and I said, "I'm a husband who's cheated on his wife, what do I do?" And so the answer came back, which was that you've got to be honest with her, tell her what you did wrong, and then you've got to work on your relationship. Now that's a pretty good answer. As I said, 3 times divorced, I know all the things you do wrong in a marriage. Never cheated on my wife, never a reason for that. But that kind of stuff too. So I found myself giving quite— how do I even know these things, where it gets it from? That's, that's AI. That's got more than a million words, 1.6 million words.

What it does, it takes all this, what we do now, we call it a digital brain, and it feeds it into that, and it takes all the words from the transcript and it converts it, and then people can access it at any time. But the good thing about it is it's not, um, it doesn't bring anything external from ChatGPT. So people always trying to jailbreak it and all that sort of stuff, and they get frustrated when it doesn't work. So it just takes it all from this stuff. So if Jim said something that's online, it's basically accessible via there. The good thing about it is as well, gives a footnote to where it's got it from. So if it got it from his book, or if I got it from a YouTube video, if I got it from a podcast, it gives the actual source. Then we actually— journalists from the Daily Mail and stuff use it all the time now. And they did one, I think, Jim Penman gives his thoughts on Albo, or Jim's digital twin gives his thoughts on Albo, and there's a Daily Mail article on it or something like that. Or Jim's AI bot goes rogue and all that sort of stuff. And they run, they run a media story on every 2 weeks. You can tell it's a journalist in it because I can see the conversation, so I see what people write. You can tell it's a journalist because they're trying to get to say a particular thing or get him to say a certain thing. You just won't say it because he's never said it in real life. So they're trying to catch him out all the time, and the bot's really good. It doesn't do—

yeah, some people like to claim I'm in favor of eugenics, which is completely stupid. If you ask Digital Jim about that, he completely says it's rubbish and stuff. Isn't it? No. No way you can interpret anything I say to be in favor of eugenics, which is garbage.

Yeah, because epigenetics is obviously what it is, but they have—

Yeah, people get confused. But actually, I came to Joel with some ideas about how to expand that, to actually use it as a way of giving people general information about franchises and all kinds of things. So it's an incredibly great model. That's why the most exciting thing we've done with it lately— this was just Joel's— but how long ago did you do that? 6 weeks ago?

No, 9 months ago.

9 months ago.

Yeah, but it will get better. Like, we did have a digital twin where you actually call up a video of Jim, like it'd be a real-life avatar. And it would do it in real time, but it wasn't the best. So it's gonna, they're gonna hopefully be able to do that. But basically you can FaceTime Jim, his digital avatar will come up and you basically have a real life conversation with his digital avatar. And they'll get a little bit better when it, in maybe 3 to 4 months when it comes back. But now you can even voice call it, it doesn't do a bad job. So, but the good thing about it is you can basically, we've got franchisees currently and I know, 'cause they're asking questions in it, they're asking about, I've got an issue with a lead or something like that. And they're actually asking this thing and they're getting a really good response. So they're not emailing him, they're asking the actual digital twin.

I had a young bloke from New Zealand who just contacted me last week and said, you know, I want to spend 20 minutes with you. And I said, look, I can do a lot better than that. Go to this place here and go to talk to Digital Jim and he'll talk to you for hours.

But it's very transparent. Like, it's very— if you ask it some questions, like, it's pretty transparent. And I think the Daily Mail did a story and it's saying they're trying to liken it to when the Woolworths chatbot went rogue. And I was just like, this thing didn't go rogue. And I've taken screenshots of Jem's Jim's breakfast recipe and stuff, which is all in there and all that sort of thing. And they're trying to say it went rogue and how your morning routine with your cold showers and your 16:8 fasting, it was giving all this advice and they didn't know it was like a non-corporate chatbot. So it was quite funny.

It's good actually. It's going to get better down the track of it. Hopefully I'll be able to take franchise inquiries and stuff and give people advice on which division to go in for and all kinds of things, which is what I talk about all the time anyway. But you can get it from that. I don't know how many— have you ever figured out how many hours this thing has been talking to people? I think it's only I've had, it's been like 30,000 conversations with it. Yeah. I could work flat out like 12 hours a day answering questions and I couldn't do what Digital Gym's doing already and it's even started to get going.

But I was going to say with franchisee level, I think franchisees are already using it anyway, like to send emails or, you know, it's going to make your life running your business a bit easier and able to do more. There's a lot of good strategies. I've had some franchisees on the Jim's podcast recently where they tell me how they use ChatGPT. And literally just all day in the field, they're just basically asking ideas on how to improve their business or can you find this person's details, et cetera. And then they're using that to run their business a lot of the time using ChatGPT. So, you know, it's only going to get better as you keep going. And I think our franchise inquiries last 12 months were like 43,000 franchise inquiries, which is a big up from the year before. So I do think there's a bit of a fear in the market with office workers going, geez, what can I do in the next 10 to 15 years that AI is not going to be able to touch?

We reckon we're about the safest area you can possibly have. Most white-collar jobs are getting outsourced. Lawyers, accountants, all kinds of people are being outsourced. But how can you outsource dog washing? How can you outsource gardening? It's so complicated. You just, unless you have a completely humanoid robot, in which case we're all stuffed, you can't replace us. We're about the last thing in the world you could do for yourself because it's all about the contact with the customer and the travel. And the whole business-like organization is just something that you can't do. There are robot lawn mowers around, but they're very limited. You've got to install them and then they've got to be maintained. You've got to sharpen the blades, you know, and they're quite expensive too. We had some set up over here, and then they don't do the edges and they can't do the gardening or remove rubbish for you or anything like that. So it's Yeah, IT is very exciting actually. The kind of thing we do in gyms, even now, you really couldn't do without IT. The way we distribute leads, that's very heavily IT dependent. And it just gets better. We spend millions of dollars a year developing software. And I reckon you're going to see— I cannot imagine what's going to happen in 10 years' time, but I reckon even in a year's time you'll see a business that's very different from today. How can we make you more efficient? How can we improve your productivity? You should be able to know how long a job should take you and get guidelines as to how to do it more effectively. Jimbo's going to be absolutely core in the way it relates back to the FMS and stuff. It's going to be huge. And I think we can do a lot more to find leads for franchisees too, improve our service, cut our complaints down, all kinds of things coming through. Once we cut our complaints down, the lead volume's going to rise. We're going to have less and less franchisees that are ever short of work. But that kind of plan is really exciting. It does sound really exciting.

There's no one behind me, so I'll steal one more question.

Definitely.

So with your— as part of my research, I was just looking into, I guess, return on investment, and I guess it's incomparable to so many other, any other business really out there. So I guess, and don't take this as a complaint, please, but so how do you justify keeping the price of entry so low? And the reason I ask that is that I, after I made my initial inquiry, I went into my emails and just did a search of my emails and actually made an inquiry to join a franchise back in 2014. And funnily enough, the franchise cost was higher then than what it is now. So I just found that fascinating. So I just wanted to know a reason behind that.

A lot of things actually relate to the price of the franchise. To a large extent, franchisors make these decisions. Jim's is very anarchic in some ways. A lot of the decisions are made, like we never tell a franchisee what to charge for a job or how to organize their day. The standards of service, but we don't do that. A lot of what determines what you charge for a franchise is how much you're gonna spend to get the person off the ground. So if you know you're gonna have to spend a lot of money to get advertising done locally, push it locally, and to pay pay-for-work guarantee, for example, then you've got to charge more. Now, these days it's not that difficult to find leads. I know we did a survey just not too long ago. We actually tried to work out for dog wash what the average payout of pay-for-work guarantee is. It's well under $1,000. It's very, very small, and a lot don't even charge it at all. So for a division where there's a lot of A lot of work going begging. We tend to be very modest in our pricing. So if you actually take out the cost of the equipment and the training, like what you're going through here and that kind of stuff too, it doesn't often make a lot of money. But decent franchising is all about ongoing fees. Ethical franchising is ongoing fees. You shouldn't be making most of your money off sales. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, good questions.

This coin has been the same price for almost 10 years, hasn't it? A lot of the mowing and The franchise hasn't gone up at all.

Well, it's up to the franchisors, but generally speaking, we need franchisees so badly. I mean, we just got so many. We had 200,000 unserviced leads in the last year. That's painful. It's frustrating because it's money down the drain, but it's also not very good for our brand because people try a service and they can't get anybody to come and look after them, and they think they won't call another Jim's service. So we don't really want that situation where there's too much on, even though it's impressive when you want to sell a franchise. Somebody say, here's the unserviced leads for the past 2 months in your area. Wow, okay. But we don't, we don't particularly like having so many. At one stage, about one-third of our leads were unserviced. That was just after COVID. One-third. That was really something.

Yeah, so you don't have a big barrier to entry because it's going to put off A lot of people coming in, so that's the reason why.

It's a good starter business.

Oh, absolutely.

It's a business that you can pay off in, you know, 2 or 3 months depending on what you're making. So it's, it's, we just can't get people in.

But it's the potential is what's exciting for me, right? So you see the likes of, you know, your Dan Cahills and the like that, you know, make something significant out of it with such a low, low entry. I think that's incredible.

I think one of the great things about Dan Cahill, who now looks after those who don't know, he runs the whole of the mowing division. In Australia, he's looking at taking on New Zealand as well, is that this is a guy who's a high school dropout. This is a bloke that society says, "You're garbage. You're never going to achieve anything. You're never going to make anything. You can't even finish school. You're nothing." He's in his early 30s, he's a multimillionaire and he's done so much good for so many people. He's just a great guy. We give that opportunity which you wouldn't normally get. We call ourselves the Millionaire Factory because we really do give people the opportunity. Opportunity. I was talking the other day, one of my 10-year— I ring people on 10, 20, 30-year anniversaries, the big anniversaries. And this one guy who comes from Liberia, West Africa, and he's spending money from his mowing business launching a school and a clinic back in his hometown, back in Liberia. Isn't that fantastic? This guy comes with nothing, but he's done so well out of the business that we've built for him. Is it really just— I just found that very moving.

Thanks for those questions.

Yeah, thank you.

You know, the irony is Dan K went and gave a talk back to his old high school today to the year 11s. He didn't do year 11, so it's pretty ironic today, but that was all good. Yeah, he went well.

If you like, if you want to be successful, drop out of school. I don't know, I don't know the school would like that particularly.

True.

Go for it. Um, with my research, uh, because I was thinking whether to come with you, Jim, or with another franchisee I'd love to know what the reason— talk about afterwards.

Yeah, I, um, the first thing I did, I had a look at the reviews and I look at the lowest review and then I started watching you guys, how you respond to the negative reviews. And I thought that was the turning point for me to want to come here. And also, uh, with that is, uh, when I found out that, uh, I didn't know that you're Christian. So my question is, being a Christian, Um, is this— Job, Bible character, was very wealthy yet kept his integrity. Jim, as a Christian, how do you stay faithful and grounded as your business grows and wealth increases?

Yeah, wealth is inherently very corrupting. I always like what Jesus said about money. It's harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, which I take very, very seriously. You know, one of the nicest compliments anybody ever gave me, the single nicest compliment, is a friend of mine from church who knows a lot of wealthy people, and he said, Jim, you're nothing like them. Because people who've got money become proud. This is what typically happens, and I think that there's a danger. I think about Jesus' words pretty well every week, they come to my mind. You cannot let wealth corrupt you. You tend to be in a situation where people want to praise you, I suppose, and so forth. And, you know, that's Jim, you know, it's a big thing. You've really got to fight against that sort of thing to say, you know, I'm just a pretty ordinary, very flawed sort of individual. You've really got to— I've got to say, one thing that keeps me humble is my wife. She definitely, if I ever feel like inflated sense of ego, she'll put me down, no question at all. She actually said once, she said, "Jim has more faults than the stars in the sky," which is really nice coming from your intimate partner. But she did say, "Your virtues are few like the sun, but when the sun comes out, you don't see the stars." But she would tell me definitely. So a good partner is great for that. So thank you.

Thanks for telling us that as well about the transparency. We appreciate that. That's good.

Yeah, that's good. Appreciate that.

Guys, you got a question, guys, feel free to come up and ask Jim. Real quickly from one of your franchisees, Dylan in WA says, "Are you coming to the WA Trade Day for Jim's Mowing this month?" I know the answer.

Am I?

Yeah, he's asking.

No, I am not.

You don't like travel, Dylan. So it's not—

I hate travel. I really dislike travel. I got a small farm a half an hour drive this way. I go up there regularly and get gardening, get my hands all— that's my hobby. I do not like— don't want to go to the city. It's just too far away. Nasty, smoky. Yeah, that's getting in the plane and going somewhere. But you know, the interesting thing about is this: I do hate travel, but because I'm always around, I'm actually very easy to contact. I don't spend my time on airplanes, I'm actually here. So if somebody contacts me, and I probably had about 6 franchisees a day just contact me about something, all kinds of different things about problems with work or with the contracts, all kinds of stuff. I get it all the time, but I'm here. And if I'm at my farm, I've got a computer there too, so I can respond as well. I just, I don't think travel helps a lot. I remember going up to Sydney actually to give a talk and there was 20 franchisees in the audience. 20. So what's the point? You had all this trouble, but I can be much more easily contactable straight away.

Well, the WA Trade Day, if you're going to go in WA for the Jim's Mind guys, get along. So that's good, that's an initiative that the franchisors there have put on, which is really good to see as well. Got a question for Jim, guys, feel free to come up and ask. We've got some time for some more. Anyone asks Jim a question gets a prize. There's the front.

We've got multiple prizes for the people who've answered so many.

Yeah, 3 already for that gentleman the first time. You got a question, feel free to come up, guys. We got plenty of time. Cool, go for it.

Yeah, my question is, who's your favorite franchisor and why is it Mitch Blake?

Who's your—

how do that one again?

Who is your favorite franchisor and why is it Mitch Blake, that's an original question.

How much did Mitch pay you? Is he going to give you the free franchise or what's he doing? Nothing. That's my—

That's original.

I'm going to answer that the same way as they answer the question, what's your favorite child? No response. They're all the same. My franchisors are brilliant. Some of them do better than others, but they're all my favorites. All right, I'm not going to say the same. Mitch's favorite division? Well, sort of. My heart bleeds green, so that's probably not a fair one. But Mitch is amazing. I remember speaking to him as a franchisee. He's at Wagga, isn't he?

Yeah, sort of central.

Yeah, I remember speaking to this guy, I don't know how long ago, about a year ago, and he wanted to be a franchisor. I was talking to him and I said, this guy will be dynamite. He is incredible. He's got a great attitude. Great business, great customer service, just dynamic, full of ideas. I said, we've got to get this guy in. So we actually made a deal with him to help him to get into the region. And he's done— he's grown his region by 50%. He's just absolutely classic. He's an absolute standout in terms of what he's done. And it's great too, because it's something I didn't even know until I spoke to him on the phone. I just thought I was so right about him. I just thought this guy is going to be so good.

Okay, I'm next. So another question is, yeah, I suppose more so for your home services. Should we be concerned about fuel prices, Middle Eastern oil?

Yeah, we should. You know, I'm not so much worried about fuel prices because, you know, one great thing about the price of fuel going up, you know what that is, don't you? It's an excuse to raise your prices. Okay. Back in the early days when there was big inflation back in the '70s, early '80s, that kind of time. It was great, 'cause I talked to a client, he said, "Look, I'm sorry, the price of petrol is going up, we're gonna have to raise your price so and so and so and so." Now, I would do something like put a $5 increase. Of that, probably about 2% is the actual cost of the fuel. So you can use the fuel as a reason to raise prices. And one of the biggest mistakes we make in gyms is we don't raise our prices enough. Very occasionally, a franchise will overcharge, but overwhelmingly, People don't understand. I was talking to a franchisee last week and they were concerned about raising prices. Actually had a conversation between me and them and the franchisor, it was all email. And he was worried that if he raised his prices he'd lose both me and his franchisor. It's the same thing. Just start raising your prices. Your customers love you. They're not gonna go somewhere else because you put a few bucks on. So no, I'm not worried about the price of petrol. The only thing that would worry me about petrol is that if it became short of supply. So a franchisee contacted me today and said, what happens if petrols become unavailable? If you can't buy it and we can't work, what are you going to do? And I said, if you're completely in a situation where you can't work because you've got no petrol, we'll suspend your fee, just like we did during COVID But generally speaking, it's not going to worry us because we have the amazing privilege of being in a high-demand business. We've got more clients that we can cope with, you can put your prices up 5% and that'll cover your petrol and you'll give you a nice holiday on the Gold Coast, okay? Wherever you want to go.

Are you Fred?

I'm Fred.

Yeah, he messaged me about you today. Do you want to tell Jim what you're doing prior to this?

Yeah, but yeah.

And you did 9 months as an independent roughly, or how long you been independent now? 5 years. 5 years?

Yeah.

So why have you decided to then come to this after being an independent?

Yeah, that's a great question. It just seems obvious and yeah, Mitch is doing great work out there and yeah, I'm excited.

We want to do an interview with you just shortly on the track and see how you go because the very typical response, as I said this morning, I have enormous respect for independents who achieve anything. To be in business after 1 year, you've beaten the odds. The people that have come across from being independent into Jim's group, their income usually rockets. Glenn Camilleri was one of my early franchisees who was an independent and he came across. I think he'd been going for 6 months and he was making $600 a week, which we're talking early '90s. I think his first week with us he made $1,500. He now runs EasyVenture, which is quite a major business providing tools and equipment for for, um, franchisees. So it's just, yeah, that's a very common response. If you're good enough to be independent, you'll be an absolute dynamo as a franchisee.

Yeah, I've interviewed a few of them who come independent and they come to us, and the one thing that always stands out to me is not, not only with mowing, it's other divisions as well, for independents, is, um, you know, one guy might go, I was an independent for 10 years, I never had someone walk up to me in the street. I've been a Jim's Mowing guy for a couple of months, I've had multiple a week walk up to me. I think that's the big thing is the trust in the brand. And that's, that's, that, that trailer at the front of the place. People feel comfortable and trust you to go up to you. And that's a big one as well.

And I want to see how your pricing goes too.

Sure.

Because one of the things you're going to find is it's a lot easier to get your price. You can charge at least another 10, 15% of what you used to be charging. Yes.

Yep.

Yep. Which is when you consider that our fees average about 6%, it's, it's quite major.

Yeah, I've been wanting to do it for, yeah, since I was 18 years old. So I still, I still remember your day out with Matt 4, 6 years ago watching that.

Yeah, cool.

So you've been watching us for a long time. That's good. There you go. Thanks for letting me know, Fred. Good luck. 23? Yeah, 23, 24. Good, good, good start. Good age.

Well, congratulations on what you've achieved. I take my hat off to you. I really do. You know, one of the nicest things during COVID was some of the independents actually contacted me and thanked me for standing up for them because nobody else did.

You're probably the most talked about man in their Lawn Mowing Contractors Association group, which is quite big on Facebook. If you're part of that group on the lawn industry.

A lot of them don't like me, obviously. You know, we're the big, big— but the other thing some people do say is that we tend to raise prices in the industry because we're known as being high charging. So that gives them more of an ability to increase their own prices than they would have had otherwise. It sort of professionalizes the business.

I think Luke from the Australian Lawn and Gardens Podcast did a survey over 700 independent contractors and the average hourly rate just keeps going up and it's like more than $100-something for the independents now, which never used to be the case a long time.

So I think we have helped the industry. I really do. But I'm always positive about those guys. I just think they're, I've got a lot of respect for them.

Absolutely. If you've got a question, guys, for Jim, feel free to come up and ask anything. We've got time for a couple of more. Anyone who asks him a question goes in the prize as well.

Awesome. Got a lot of good stuff here. There is.

Monopoly, beers, everything. Yeah.

Hi, I'm Brett. Um, before, I noticed you were talking about, uh, your concerns about mental health in society right now and things like that. I'm just wondering whether you see an opportunity. It's well known that hard work exercised outside, the benefits that that can give. Do you see an opportunity for us as franchisees to provide a place, a safe place for people to use that type of environment in order to pull themselves out of what has probably got nothing to do with their making in the first place, and whether we can't help people conquer that problem.

Well, look at mowing gardening as a classic example. If you look at what makes people happy, and I read a lot of this kind of stuff about what's happiness, okay, there's a few things that are really mood. First of all, flexibility, control of your own time is a very big driver for happiness. Working outside, seeing sunlight is a big positive. Being in contact with nature is a big positive. Physical exertion is a big positive. So if you look at something like a lawn mowing business, That's got so many things going for it. The only— and look, you look at most divisions, you look at dog wash, and if you love animals, it's a fantastic job. You're working all the way, but you've got the flexibility, you know, it's just a great job. Same with the car cleaner. I don't want to start picking on mine all the time, that's my trade. But the only thing about it is this: we are very concerned about about emotional support because it's so good in so many ways and yet it can be difficult. You can have problems with clients and stuff that gets you down. So we have an enormous emphasis in gyms on community, on the importance of having regular meetings and coming to the meetings and so forth and having points of contact. We have all kinds of things. We have a psychological psychologist paid for by Jim's, which is you can use them for free. We have franchisee mentors you can talk to, not from your own division. We have all kinds of stuff that we do. Everything we support in Jim's is always about mental health, particularly I have to say men's mental health because we need it. We have more problems, I think, overall.

I was thinking also to the idea of a franchisor offering a psychologist or the opportunity to refer us to clients that would benefit from getting out in the outdoors and doing that type of—

Getting psychologists to— here's your prescription for your mental health problems. Buy a Jim Penman franchise. Now that will be very good.

But I mean, for example, it's quite well known that they will say exercise and all that type of stuff.

I do think when we do the iFranchise, I agree with you. 'Cause I'm doing a lot of interviews with ex-corporates and they always say mental benefits and, you know, health and stuff. And we don't really promote it as being a franchisee. It's like, you know, be your own boss and earn your income. We don't say mental health benefits and health benefits. We don't promote that enough. But in regards to franchisees, we've actually got some franchisees who are very passionate about it. A guy called Craig Smith in carpet cleaning, he's got his own custom shirt with like mental health hotlines and stuff on. And he's in people's homes all the time. And he reckons he's referred 8 people to like psychological support and stuff like that with his shirts and things like that. So we do have franchisees who take that initiative and we encourage that at a local level. That's great. A lot of them will do like trademark, you know, the nice colorful trademark shirts with "This is a conversation starter." A lot of them will have custom ones of those. Craig's got his own one, which is like Mates Incorporated, and he has like suicide prevention things on his shirt and that opens up a lot of conversations with his clients and he does that deliberately. He's helped a lot of people with that as well. So we do have franchisees who do their own initiative and franchisors who buy shirts and things as well. So yeah, we should promote more the mental health and the wellbeing benefits for sure.

I think one of the most wonderful things— sorry, I was going to say, we hear so many stories about franchises who do wonderful things.

Well, there is one that's fresh for me because I interviewed Craig 2, uh, 3 weeks ago. It's going to go out next week where he talks all about that sort of stuff.

We've got a mowing guy in Adelaide who spends all his time, spare time, working with the homeless because he makes a very good living out of 3 days a week. And that's what his mission is. There's another guy in Queensland I was talking to who I did do a thing on him. That was the one who was— did a lot of fostering of kids.

Yeah, yeah, that was like another guy. There's another guy in Warrnambool does that too.

Yeah, a secondary topic that came into my mind when you were talking about the trade show in Western Australia. I mean, is there anybody else in the world maybe that has had enough experience or enough contact with people who work with machinery every day, um, Are you—

is—

does Jim— has it ever played a role in recommending to producers how to improve their products and how to— like, for example, the life of a battery and all that?

It's a great question. This Dan— Dan K went up to Brisbane with Bushranger the other day, and they were asking him for his feedback on all that sort of stuff. So he was giving him feedback about, you know, this needs to be shorter, or this needs to be longer, and stuff like that. So we do have a lot of suppliers linked in with the divisions and the franchisors. And they will get feedback from franchisees and give them stuff to test in the field. That's quite common actually. A lot of the battery stuff that's made now, I would say a lot of the changes to the battery stuff when it first came out, it's pretty rubbish to be honest. Very easy to break, you know, all that sort of stuff. And a lot of the stuff has got way more commercial in terms of metal chassis and all that sort of stuff.

We often pressure them about battery life. That's the big thing. A lot of franchisees use electric stuff for their brush cutter and their peripherals. And they still use petrol for the mowers. So if we can get the battery life on the mowers up, that's a tremendous advantage, particularly when you've got issues like the, the current problems with the price of petrol and maybe the availability of petrol. I think if we can, if we can get ourselves off fossil fuels, it's very good for security point of view as well as what you might think of for the environment. And I think it's actually quite cost effective these days.

I think from my point of view, for example, I'll be starting with petrol. Only because I need to establish myself and that's, but my plan is to go electric and, but I would like to run a van. And so the whole idea of having a, not a van for driving a time bomb type of thing with fumes in the back, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, I interviewed a guy called George, which is coming out 2 weeks. He has the whole battery set up. So battery stand on, ride on, the whole Greenworks range battery in a van. And that's what he does it exactly for as well. He said the same thing. No smell of fuel.

Tell me, tell me, why did you choose to go petrol initially instead of, instead of battery? What was your, what was your reasoning?

It was, well, I've been an avid watcher of the, of the, of the videos. I thought I picked up really early in the, in the piece that when the grunt needs to be there, you can count on petrol more so than electric. Although I realise the gap is closing. Excuse me. Um, and I, I was also early on made aware, I think by one of your videos, is that, um, there are certain council jobs that will not be sort of even considered unless you are running electric stuff.

Other issues too, like the vibration is less. Now you get some people who actually get problems with RSI just from the vibration of a mower. You have less problems with that.

But also, I'm a 51-year-old bloke and I'm under no illusion that I've maybe enjoyed life a little bit too much.

And I would suggest you buy a uniform fairly snug. That's general advice.

My franchisor told me that I'll probably have to change my entire wardrobe at least 3 times in the next 3 to 4 months. So I look forward to those days. But just the general weight difference and the efficiency of those types of you know, on my body. I'm trying to figure out a way of taking my age into account and my, and because my fitness will come, I understand. However, you know, the initial impact, trying to minimize that.

Which area are you going to be? Which type of properties? Like what type of—

North Gosford.

North Gosford, okay. Yeah.

Paul King will be my—

Oh, Paul King, yeah.

Will be my franchisor.

Yeah, a lot of guys use Steel for the battery. And what brands are you going to be using? What type?

Handheld stuff, I hope to go Ergo.

Okay. Ego stuff. Yeah.

Um, forgive my pronunciation, is it Palanque?

Yeah, thanks. The French band with the battery.

Yeah, I'd love to look in pink, pink.

There's one, there's one out the front of the, uh, thing. Um, I've heard from, from Paul that they are—

it's the only commercial one that lasts the whole day on the one battery. That's why a lot of the guys love it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're quite, they're quite pricey, but I think if you, if you calculate the cost, it's like I bought an electric car 3 years ago, a bit over 3 years ago, and it did cost more. But, you know, I had to fill up my wife's car with petrol and I just thought, oh, that's so much. Yeah, I've only used sunlight to power my car for 3 years and it's very, very inexpensive. It comes off solar panels on the roof.

John Wilds, you've got in training on— in your mowing training, done a calculation of how much he saved by going battery from his fuel. So he's actually got the dollar amount for it. So ask him in training when you—

it's also— it's also the maintenance is a lot less too.

Yeah, and I live in a unit and I'm figuring I'm going to have to have a venue for me to be able to do oil changes and all that type of thing. Yeah. And the, the just the basic requirements for, for maintenance and stuff like that.

Yeah, a lot of guys would be like Sunday, they might do an hour on the thing, maintain, maintaining it. So obviously doing the batteries reduces that quite a bit. So you take that into consideration as well.

I use, I use a, a, a electric battery powered brush cutter on my farm quite regularly and it's really good. I love it.

Cool, thank you.

Got time for one more question, guys. Anyone at the last one? The gym? One more? Cool, go for it. That's longer ones tonight. Longer questions is good.

Yeah, this one will be short. Um, I'm only saying this one because you just brought that up, which I really appreciated. I'm assuming a lot of people would appreciate that. Um, it's a bit heavy, but So when I came into this idea, my partner was 100% supportive. So she wanted to do all my books. Not that that's what she did as a profession, but she just loved it and she enjoyed it. I was supposed to be here 3 weeks ago. My partner unfortunately passed away 1 month ago. Yeah, so I know it's a bit heavy. But yeah, that's why I wasn't here. Not that I'm sure you got it. Yeah. But, um, so my question is, I'm still all in this, and I just realized that I have to learn how to do my own books now. But what would you recommend when it comes to someone that's dealing with grief but is still 100% in, in it?

Would—

should they go all in headfirst, or should they start and go a bit, you know, easier and not take on too much, or just get the support first off?

Look, I can't begin to understand what you've been through, but I can tell you something. I've been divorced and I didn't enjoy the process, especially not losing contact with my kids, and it's very hard. But one thing I find very useful is to keep busy. And I think one of the things that kept me sane through the worst of those times— the worst thing was when I lost my kids for 2 years. That was really shocking, the worst 2 years of my whole life. But I had a sense of responsibility and it kept me going. And I think that's a pretty powerful idea. The last thing you want to do is to sit around and feel sad if you're out there working. But I think it's also what really matters too is what relationships you can forge. Now this is at 2 levels. First of all, with clients, it's important actually. Sometimes people really depend on you. But also if you can get to know your fellow franchisees, go to meetings, get to know them, build relationships with those. That is the best thing. Keeping busy, developing strong relationships. Yeah, it's a terrible thing to happen really at your age. That's just, that's just shocking. And look, it's great you're doing it, but just reach out for help if you need it. Yeah, we have psychologists on tap. It doesn't cost you a cent.

People reach out to them for grief as well, so we'll say that. So we've got TX. I do know people use them for grief. So that's happened before.

Yeah, and that we get— they never tell us who's using them, no information, it's completely confidential. But we have had some really good feedback from those people, so it's kind of a benefit. Your franchisor would know about this, obviously.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, you can treat you.

And with the books, maybe if that's a concern, use Jim's Bookkeeping, who we've got. They've got $11 a month solo with 2 months free of bookkeeping with that. It's a really good option. Um, yeah, I'm not trying to plug them, but that's, that's their that's really handy to have if that's gonna be a challenge or takes your mind off it as well. Really good people too, Jim's Bookkeeping, but definitely use that.

I know it'll keep me busy. That's the main thing. And that's, yeah, I don't wanna be stooling around at home. So, but yeah, no, appreciate it. Thank you.

Sorry to hear. Sorry to hear. You wanted one more question?

Yeah.

I'm interested to see what this is.

Just for your information. I was a mental health nurse for quite a long time, so I've dealt with a lot of death, both, both as a mental health nurse and also as a police officer. So yeah, if you wanted to talk at all. Yeah, but I agree with everything Jim said. Yeah, it's, it's grief is something that's personal. How you handle grief and how I handle grief will be different.

Yeah, thank you.

Okay, this one, this one is, um, it's called The Super Secret Informant. Okay, and it's, uh, it's going to involve people here, not, not, um, in what I tell you, but I'm pretty sure it's going to get a reaction from the group. And we want your honesty, Jim.

Okay, I never answer questions any other way. Okay, nor does my AI, my digital Jim.

So on a slightly serious note, a super secret and confidential informant recently reported seeing you wearing a red Jim's Group polo shirt. Was this a deliberate admission or a Freudian slip declaring that your absolute favorite division is in fact the loyal Faithful and unconditional franchisees of Jim's Dog Wash.

Jeepers, you dog wash franchisees, they don't want to blather about you.

I'm just, I'm just looking—

you're known for it, you know this, you've got a reputation.

Can I finish? I'm just looking for a bit of clarity for the rest of the divisions. Here tonight.

Okay, well, that person is slightly colorblind because what they probably saw was me wearing a Libertarian shirt, burgundy, which is a burgundy color, okay, not dog wash, thank you very much. I know Sharon had a go today. She said, oh, you're wearing a red shirt. I said, that's Libertarian. I love the dog wash division, love all my divisions, but No, no, I didn't. It wasn't me.

It sort of feeds into yours actually, what you started with before.

Yeah, no, thanks for that.

All right, thank you.

So what we'll do is, Jim, pick up your 3 favorite questions. They get first pick at the prize. I have to use this guy.

He's just—

Yeah, I've never had anything like it.

Never had anybody ask 4 questions.

So come and grab it if you like. Next one there, Jim.

And look, it's hard to say, but I'd love to talk about AI. That was really good.

AI question.

Yep.

Who asked the AI question? Still here? Yep. Come and grab your choice. Take the first one.

And the corrupting effect of wealth. That was a great question.

I think that was you in the front, corrupting effect of wealth.

That was you, wasn't it? Yep.

Come up and grab anything if you like.

We talked about the Bible and— that was you. Yeah, come and grab one.

Now, if you asked a question as well, guys, you can come up and take anything from the end too. So everyone else as well. So thank you very much for your attention tonight, guys. If you want, you can take if you want. Yeah, we've got some of these in the office if you want to give one.

Yeah, cool.

If you want a photo or anything with Jim now, it's a big rush tomorrow, so now it's probably a good time if you if you want to chat with Jim anything as well, please.

Those who've asked multiple questions, you can come and get more. You get one for every question.

Absolutely.

Yeah, just come up and grab your—

thank you very much for your time tonight, guys. We appreciate it. Thank you.