What books does Jim's Group CEO, Jim Penman recommend and read? with Joel Kleber

You recommended Crushing it too. And the only time you understood that I'd read it, it's like came back and started telling all the stuff we should do.

That's very, very. Well, that's very, very true. I did say to Jim, you should read this a couple of times. And Jim's come in and saying, I've been listening to Crushing It.

No, no, I didn't actually say that. What I did is I came into you and said, okay, now we should do this and this and this and this. And you said, you've listened to Crushing it, haven't you?

Well, that's. That's exactly.

That's how it happens. More like that.

All right, so welcome back to another episode of the Jim's Group podcast, which is called the Jim's Cast. And I'm here with Jim and we're. We're on a Monday morning in sunny Melbourne today after a weekend of hail on the farm. Didn't you, Jim, you just told me before off camera that you had a bit of hail up on there and you got hailed on a few times.

Yeah, I go out when it's not raining too much and do some farm work. And then if it gets really downpour, it starts to hail. I get inside and sit in front of my nice, nice stove, freestanding. What do you call it? The wood stove.

Let's talk about now about Jim's audiobook. So if anyone who's watched any content with Jim or listened to anything, everyone will know that Jim love, loves his books. And obviously now it's audiobooks. And Jim obviously does this when he's doing the treadmill or doing some vigorous exercise or doing all his gardening. He obviously has an audiobook on him.

Driving in the car.

Driving in the car.

As long as my kids aren't there, if I'm with my kids, I talk to them, but otherwise I've got my talking books on.

So he's always a consuming audiobooks and he's obviously got a lot of great recommendations which we're gonna share with you today. And we have actually put this list on the Jims.net website. But as Jim said, this is only the last couple of months, so Jim gets through a heap. So maybe at the end of the year we're gonna have to get his Jim's picks for 2019 as his favourite audio books and we'll put them out to people.

Yes, but whether they're useful for anybody else, my tastes are very strange.

Well, let's give me all this. Listen, Father, the taste is it's well, some of it's like. Some of it's I've actually heard of and there's a couple. There's actually one I recommended to Jim and he's got it in here, which is great. But there's some stuff which people will be able to know and recognize. But the other ones you might have to educate us a bit on, I reckon. So let's just talk firstly about maybe how many roughly audiobooks do you listen to a week or in a month?

I would probably listen to about one to two per week.

One to two per week, yes. And are they sort of the average length, sort of unlike eight hours, Are they a bit longer?

Yeah, yeah. Eight to ten hours. So Churchill, the last line was huge. That's a wonderful book. But that took me a while to get through. Well, when I say get through, it was a pleasure. I'm sure I'll listen to it again sometime. Often I listen to books twice actually. Sometimes twice or three times over. Yes.

Wow. Okay, so let's get into this list here, which is on jims.net on the website we did put on the Facebook as well.

I was trying to pick the favorite ones, but there's so many, it's hard. That's true.

Well, I'll show the camera here now. So I've got that up in front of me and I said to Jim, can you just mark next to maybe three or four and he's marked next to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, six of his favorite ones, which we can talk about today. Maybe he can tell us a little bit about them. So the first one you got, Mark, there is called One Second after and Sequels by William R. Is it forshan?

Yeah.

And you put here a realistic and frightening account of the aftermath of an emp, which is electromagnetic pulse which knocks out power in computers and most transports. Maybe you want to talk a little bit about that series.

Well, I do like I'm very interested in disaster type stories about how you cope with it. I mean, this is the farm too. Learning to be a farmer and to grow your own food and so forth is part of my preparation. But our civilization is frighteningly vulnerable. This is a story about a small town in Virginia which is affected by it. And actually it's one town that actually survives fairly well. But it gives a very vivid description of what happens and the different people that die for different reasons. Like the he's got a daughter who dies from who's a diabetic, juvenile onset diabetes and just the horror of trying to keep her alive as Insulin stocks run out and all the rest of it. And then the different kinds of diseases and then the violence that takes place with marauders and starvation and just. It's so plausible that our civilization is so interconnected and it's getting worse every year as more and more. As more and more electronics and stuff go into vehicles and they're less able to drive. I mean, EMP would drop out. Any modern car would be knocked out by any of the old ones that still work because they're not. Haven't got electronics in them. And then you look at it and you think, okay, well, what would I do in this situation? How would I keep my family safe and the people that I'm close to? So I just like hearing that. It's very frightening, but it's also very motivating.

So do you actually envision yourself in that situation? That's why you like it. You're constantly thinking about, what would I do if that scenario was presented to me?

I always do. Yeah.

So how do you think you would go with your farm? Obviously your farm set up well. How do you think it would go currently?

Well, obviously a lot better than most because I am used to growing my own food. And I often think about it like, in my vegetable patch, there's actually potato patch, there's actually a lot of silverbeet, which I've left there, which is from the previous owner, and that's just flourishing. So you've immediately got sources of that. Lee knows how to use wild greens and stuff, too. She could actually look at things and see what could be or could be used. And I'd like to be off the grid entirely if I can, one of these days.

So that's one of the first ones here, which is great. And obviously that can be downloaded. Put links underneath here where you can get these books.

I think everybody ought to have. Be ready for a disaster. Everybody ought to have a year's supply of food on.

Really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Everybody should. I mean, the difference between. The point of it is it probably won't happen. You know, 99 chances out of a hundred, maybe 909 out of a thousand, you won't get this thing happening. But as I say to people, you know, you probably won't have your house burned down, but does that mean you don't insure it against fire? Now, what are you insuring against? You're insuring against a financial risk. If something goes wrong with our civilization, there's so many things that could, like an electromagnetic pulse, like a genetically engineered plague, like Any sort of disruption, trade and so forth, which is very likely limited nuclear war, anything could happen that could completely disrupt our way of life. Now, the point of it is, what you're talking about is survival for yourself and your family. So if you're prepared to invest this much in surviving a five to your house, which is a financial problem, why wouldn't you invest even less in doing something like storing a bit of food? I mean, just putting a bit of rice or wheat away or these kind of things and living off that. The cost is trivial because you're just buying a little bit in advance. And yet if the one in a thousand chance happens, the disaster strikes, you're going to be alive and your family is going to be alive. And how much more important is that?

Have you seen the show Doomsday Preppers at all by chance on seven? No, I'm going to send it to you because exactly about this, they follow people in America and they call them doomsday preppers in America, and they've gone to extreme lengths to prepare for the worst. And I'll send you a couple of links.

But look, even basic things like a year's supply of food, if we had something like an EMP, probably something like 80% population will be dead within a year. But if everybody had a year's supply of food, you might lose 10%. That's the difference. And the difference is trivial. It's just a case of moving your consumption a little bit earlier. I say to everybody, prepare. And why don't you grow your own vegetables and just dig up some of your backyard? What's the use of lawn anyway? Part to keep humans mowing busy. You can get the humans guys to actually prune your fruit trees and so forth.

They do, yeah, they do a lot of pruning and they do a lot of fruit trees.

But how nice to have your own stuff and then to learn and be outside and getting physical exercise and getting healthy by doing things that can actually have a real beneficial effect and learning something about the way our ancestors lived.

Well, how'd that apply to inner city people then? Obviously I live in the inner city. So let's say people live in an apartment, for example. What could they do then?

What's your excuse? You work in Moorrabach.

I do work in Moorrabar, but I live in the inner.

Yeah, well, get yourself a place that's a bit further out and you can have a bit of a yard. You can grow a lot of food on a quarter acre.

I wouldn't be pathetic in the garden. I reckon I want to need your help with that one.

You might be pathetic to start with, but you'll certainly learn. And let me tell you the point about. We're talking about mood before about exercise. Mood is not just a matter of exercise, it's also a matter of where you exercise. If you exercise outside, sunlight itself, fresh air, even the smells of the plants has that effect on you. Which is one reason why gardeners are amongst the happiest people of all the professions.

Number one. Yeah, number one. They're in florists natural world.

So you see, it's not just the benefit of security, it's the benefit of fitness and it's the benefit to your mood. And I tell you what, when I spent a couple of days on my farm just working outside and the more time I spend outside, the better I feel. It's just great feeling of calm and peace. So it's a win, win, win, win everything. It's a great thing to do. Not everybody can have a farm, but everybody. Most people could have a block if they wished. Including you.

No, that's true. It's quite funny.

And you would find that you would really get into it. I believe that. It's just so much fun.

We'll have to check back in a couple of years and see if I do take that up. Okay, so that's the first one. And the next one here you've got Marx Is yous Future Self Will thank youk by Drew. Is it dyke or Dick? Christian orientated book on self discipline which I found inspiring and helpful. Wish I note on that one.

Yeah, I just, I just loved it. It inspired me. I mean it's a Christian point of view, so it spoke to me very clearly. There's a lot of books around about self discipline. I just thought that one was very practical, very inspiring, very helpful. It just talks about getting habits established, that it's difficult, you can't rely on willpower. Do everything. But the way the mind works is that if you start doing a thing and you push yourself, when you push yourself and you push yourself to do it and it becomes easier and easier, it becomes a habit and it's less and less and less effort. It's like my running or eating sort of quasi vegetarian food, those kind of things, it just gets easier, easier to use the longer you do it until it becomes hardly any effort at all. And then you can work on something else like maybe getting more sleep or getting up early or something, whatever it happens to be. So you just work on one thing at A time. And it shows how you can establish habits. As I said, it's practical and it's very inspiring. I don't know how it'd go to a non Christian audience, but I think it's one of the best books I've read on that particular subject. When I got it, actually, that was when I read that book. I was actually just on the cusp of hitting 68 kilos and I've lost two and a half kilos since then. So it had a big impact, really.

So you. So you attribute that weight loss to the book?

Yeah.

Well, what changes did you make then, based on the book?

I just. I just determined to eat more carefully, that's all. Mainly, I mean, I mean. I mean, I've always said exercise, but I just. Just, you know, just stopped. You know, we got a big problem in the office here, as you know, and it's just not fun. On your desk they always put chocolates and biscuits and stuff there. And I find that really, really hard because I love chocolate. And so you just gotta walk past it and not take any.

I know. I've watched you multiple times walk past it and you come back and you take.

I do take something, yes.

But the fruit's been a great initiative. I love the fruit personally. Cause I don't touch it either. I try and watch what I eat. But the fruit's been great.

But the fruit is good. Fruit is great. Because if you want to have a snack, the thing of it is, first of all at home, I don't have biscuits and stuff very much around, but there's a massive fruit there. So if you want to come out and you're feeling a bit peckish, you just have some blueberries or an apple or something like that. It's setting up that, setting up life to make it easier. You can't rely on willpower if you have chocolates and cakes and stuff lying around the whole time.

I think we should ban it. I think we should ban all chocolates and cakes in the office. I just have the fruit.

I sort of have a guide people to bring that stuff in. I say, come on, Bev.

Yeah, but then you take it and then you run off. But I gotta stop it.

And then I tell the girls, hey, I'm just taking this so to save you altation.

Yeah. You're being very altruistic.

Oh yeah. Just removing, moving these chocolates and stuff. But the fruit is good. And that's the same reason at home, you know, when I was a kid, actually one of my greatest dreams of wealth was to have a basket of fresh fruit that you could have whatever you wanted.

Well, we've got that coming in there every Monday from Jim's Home Fresh. So there you go. There's the dream fulfilled.

Jim's Home Fresh. Yes, that's a great company. You get involved with them and get your deliveries on a weekly basis and then. And then be healthy.

That's it. And happy. Better test. Well, what's better testimony than actually Jim himself getting the fruit in for this national staff from Jim's Home Fresh.

So definitely here we buy two big boxes every Monday and they come in, distribute.

They go pretty quick. I know because I'm always taking apples, I'm always taking bananas and mandarins. So they're the ones that love. Okay, so we got here. The next one is Zealot by Reza Aslan, putting Jesus into historical perspective by a non Christian. I've listened to this one three times, so it must be pretty good.

Yes, I know.

Reza Azlan. A little bit of bed. I was talking off camera before. I'm not a big fan because he doesn't. Him and another guy that I really like have a bit of issues.

Well, yeah, he's a Muslim. He was actually a Christian at one stage and he's now a Muslim. So I suppose in a sense there's a certain commonality of worldview that at least having a sense of God. But the great thing I like about it is that he does take the history and puts Jesus into. He actually uses the Synoptic Gospels, which are Matthew, Mark and Luke, and sort of analyses them, put them in perspective in terms of who Jesus was at the time, what people thought of him. In actual fact, he's really much more like a populist insurgent than people would think. This whole message of. He did talk about the blessed of the peacemakers and stuff, but he was also somebody who was very, very critical of the priestly hierarchy and the wealthy people at the time. It's a very populist message and it's like a. It's quite revolutionary. Like a good example is the Good Samaritan, the story. Now that is a story about helping people. And we take it to mean that of course it is a story about how it's good to help people. And that's what Jesus said, go and do likewise. But the real hard part of the story was the actual fact. The fact that it was the priest and the Levite who was a kind of the peak religious people at Jesus time who were the bad guys and Samaritan who was like a scumbag of the Jewish world, was the good guy. And so even though it was a talk about. It was a talk about kindness to others and looking after others, it's had a massive impact on the world. It was also very much of an attack on religious hypocrisy and on elitism. And Jesus was very much a man of the ordinary people, of the poor. And it's that populist, radical side of him that I really appreciated. You also see the Letter of James, which is one of my favorite books in the Bible, which is very similar because James was Jesus brother, and he talks in very similar terms. So when Jesus said things like, it's easier for a rich man to enter a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, that's very meaningful to me because it talks about the dangers of wealth. So it's that radical populist side of Jesus that I really. I really liked so much. And Jesus was very revolutionary in a way that people could hardly comprehend. There was another book I read just recently which his name escapes me, talking about how Christian values were completely overturned. The whole thinking of the ancient world, which was very elitist. Like, there's one wonderful story he tells about the Emperor Julian. And the Emperor Julian was complaining about how the priests of Cybele, which was a sort of a God there, were doing themselves so much harm because they weren't any longer looking after the poor, but they were just indulging in all these ceremonies and fine eating and stuff. And he said, well, one of the problems was that Julian was a. This is after Christianity was established as the religion of the empire. Julian was called the Apostate because he turned against the. He tried to bring back paganism. So he was complaining about the priests of Cybele not looking after the poor. But what he hadn't recognized is that they never had. And there was in fact, no religious movement in the ancient world, apart from Judaism and then obviously Christianity, that actually did look after poor people. It was so elitist. I mean, they used to enjoy having people torture to death in amphitheaters. And it's that populist concern for the poor aspect I think Reza Askin brought out really, really well. It appeals to me very much, and I'm very, very aware of that aspect, because as somebody who's obviously quite successful, it's all the dangers that Jesus talked about were the dangers that I could be faced with. The danger that people can flatter you, the danger of Luxury, the danger you can spoil your kids, all the bad things that can come out of wealth.

You definitely put that in perspective. Obviously we've done podcasts and we've talked before and you say you obviously give, you do a tithing and obviously about your kids, you're quite open about just saying, no, you don't spoil your kids at all. So you both definitely put this stuff in practice. And I guess that was obviously interesting to you as a subject and obviously reaffirming some of those beliefs and some of those things you actually live by as well.

No, I really love Jesus when I look at that. He just comes across as incredibly human and inspiring. And that's what Aslan says too. I mean, he talks about it from a non Christian perspective and not as the believer.

Is that what you found? The most interesting thing though, was that from a non Christian, that's sort of what got you to buy in a bit more. Does that make it more interesting to you then, or more credible to him?

Well, Christian stuff has a certain kind of view about it, but he tends to treat Jesus more as a human. And as he says too, Jesus comes across through the gospels, if you really understand the history, as an incredibly admirable character. He really does. And so much of we just take for granted. We talk about humanism, but humanism is Christian values. And it was these peculiar values and this teaching that he had who has been so revolutionary. Understanding him as a man is wonderful, even though having a non Christian, a Muslim, say it's a bit strange, but it's different from what you get in church.

Okay, cool. So let's get into the next one and that one. We'll put a list of these books under there. If anyone's just sort of trying to write them down, don't worry, we'll put them on there. The next one here is something that I probably. My alley is surely you're joking. Mr. Feynman, which is an excellent automobile biography by a great scientist. So Richard Feynman obviously was a quantum, quantum mechanics, all that sort of stuff. And I love, I like Richard Feynman. The reason how I found him before actually reading this list is I listen to a lot of Neil Grass, Tyson, Lawrence Krauss, who are cosmologists and very famous astrophysicists. And they always refer to Mr. Feynman and obviously how much humor as well he had about talking about that stuff. So maybe tell us a bit more about that, what you found with the autobiography.

It's a wonderful. I mean, you look at this guy and you think, my goodness, he's so far above anything I could do. He was like repairing radios and stuff when he was just a kid. And he had this sense of fun, of life. He'd learned Portuguese so he could go and talk in Portugal. He learned how to be quite a significantly good painter. He learned to play these drum things. He just had this incredible zest for life and this interest in doing so many things. It's just very inspiring. There's a wonderful story that talks about Feynman at a time when he was. He was in a complete dead end. Everything seemed sterile. He was getting nowhere academically in his thoughts and his stuff. And he just went to this university cafeteria and he was watching somebody who was twirling a plate. And he looked at the plate and he was wondering, why does it wagwa like that? And so he started a line of inquiry which eventually got him the Nobel Prize. And it was just that. It was just his curiosity, his love of the world, his love of thinking. He was, you know, a mixed character. He was a womanizer and all the rest of it too, as Einstein was, of course, too. So, you know, I'm not saying he was a saint of some kind, but it's a wonderful, inspiring, entertaining book.

He's got a lot of really quotable quotes. Actually, you know, if you type in Richard Feynman and see quotes on Google, there'll obviously be a lot of quotes from him. And I think he's hard as the father of modern quantum mechanics as well. So obviously a very, very smart man. Okay, the next one here we've got is Everybody Lies. What we Can Learn from Google. And you've just got one word here next to it. Fascinating. So tell us a bit about that one.

That's such an extraordinary book. That one time I was driving to the airport listening to that and I got so absorbed in the book, I missed the turn off and missed my flight, really. I was due to give a talk, so I had to frantically ring ahead and say, could you put me. That's how bad it is. It's just looking at the. There's so many stories for that that's just absolutely fascinating. I've listened to it twice already and I'm sure I'll listen to it again. Looking at elements of why people support sporting teams. And as far as I can remember, for men, it's the team that was winning when you were about 8 or 10 years old. For women, it's the team that was winning when you were like 18 years old. So it Reflects the interests and then obviously relationships and stuff like that. It just uses these stats in really fascinating ways to come across all this stuff you would not. You would not imagine you could figure out just from looking at Google and the way that it. And all these different searches.

I have to get that one, actually, I didn't know that one too much about, but I'm going to have to download that one because that sounds very interesting. The next one we've got here is Grinding out by Ray Kroc and people who listen and absorb some of your content will know you're a massive fan. Obviously the McDonald's founder, and obviously there's a movie called the Founder or the Founder about it. So maybe you want to talk a bit more about your love of Ray Kroc and the McDonald's Story.

Yeah, look, I've read a fair bit about McDonald's. The only book I read about franchising before I launched the Jim's franchise was behind the Archers by Love, which is a great account too, and it's very. It's just a bit more. Because it's autobiography, it's a bit more personal. I love. When I talk about business, I like. I much rather read the story about what somebody did, particularly in their own words, rather than other people talking about what somebody else did. To me, that's. That's far more. I'm a very concrete thinker. I want to know what a person did. And just the way he thought about the whole thing and the kind of frustrations he had getting it going and the kind of passion that drove him. He was an immensely passionate man. He just had this quality, service, cleanliness thing that was just part of his. His DNA. Not literally, of course, but part of his character and just how he achieved it and what it meant and stuff. He wasn't. Yeah, I mean, obviously he's far more successful, wealthier than I ever will be. But that love of what he did, that just enjoyment of it and the fascination of the growth story and the fundamental principles behind it. He just looked after franchisees very well. His first franchisees were millionaires before he even made a dollar out of McDonald's. He just wanted to create something great. He wanted to provide something in a way that nobody else could.

What did you think of the. Did you see the movie at all?

Yeah.

What did you think of the movie?

It's good. It's good. They sort of made him a bit of a ruthless character, which I suppose he was, but McDonald brothers were the way he diddled them out of Their money. In a sense, he didn't really diddle them out of it. But, you know, the basic story, how he did it, he actually had this stream of royalties coming in. And the McDonnell brothers, whom he got the idea from and leased the rights to, they were getting a percentage, but they were stopping him from doing all kinds of really obvious things. They just wouldn't let him do this stuff, which was so important. But what he actually did was he started either buying or taking head leases on the properties behind the McDonald's. And that actually made him a lot more money than was coming through in the royalties. And with that financial strength behind us, he could then put pressure on them. So in a sense, it was a fairly ruthless thing to do. But, you know, I mean, if that hadn't got.

Well, he had an unstoppable vision, didn't he? He had an unstoppable vision which of what he wanted to do. And this was. That was. Unfortunately, there was a roadblock in the way and he sort of worked out a way to get around it to make sure his vision came to fruition.

He did. But, you know, he made them a lot of money too. And if they'd been had a half grain of sense, they could have made billions of dollars out of the deal they made with him. They were just unreasonable. So, you know, he's a tough character, but I admire him, I really do. And I find him very inspiring. And as I said, I still admire McDonald's. I think it carries some of the same spirit today.

Yeah, that's true. The next one here is We've Got Gun, Germs and Steel, an excellent book about why civilizations develop where they do. Fantastic book, one of the best. I've listened to it several times. So based on this list, this is the one you listen to the most. So what do you like about this animation?

Well, that's because I've listened to it. Well, actually, yes. It talks about why civilizations rise in certain parts of the world. It talks about why the Middle east, for example, was such a great area because you had all these animals that were suited to domestication. And he goes through all these sorts, sorts of reasons why certain animals can be domesticated, why certain plants are more suited to domestication, why certain environment helps farming and so forth. So he looks at the effect of the environment and just traces the way civilization rises in different parts back to this. But it's kind of beautifully written too, because Jared Diamond's lived in a lot of different places and he often talks about his New guinea friends. Which I think is quite genuine about how they see things and how they can understand about how the Europeans have all the cargo, all this wealth and stuff. I can't really describe it very well except that it's one I pull it surprise. And it doesn't surprise me one little bit. It's beautifully, beautifully written, entertaining, and it's one of the most deeply meaningful understandings about how civilization arose and where it arose and why it arose and so forth. Just fascinating book.

So there we go. So there's a little brief overview of the list that we put out on Jim's.net about what Jim actually listens to. This list will obviously always change because Jim obviously listens to a lot of content. This is from the last couple of months when Jim gave the list. So we might do something at the end of the year where Jim picks his best favorite five books or something. Recommendations. We'll give that as a recommendation to everyone because it's quite well known now that CEOs and very high powered executives are avid readers or consumers of audiobook content. So. And Jim's no different. As you can see, one to two books a week and even he's listening to books which have made him miss a flight. So he's obviously an avid listener. So if you've got any suggestions for Jim, maybe, or you want to share with us what actually audiobooks you're listening to inspired you. Before we go, I'll give you one that I recommend, I've actually given to Jim and I hope he does listen to it. It's called Can't Break Me by David Goggins. I think it's one of the best stories and the best life advice books you will ever, ever listen to. And it's not a life advice book per se, it's a story. But what you can get out of that will change your life. And I'm taking stuff out of that I'm actually implementing.

You recommended Crushing it too.

Crushing It.

And anytime you understood that I'd read it, it's like came back and started telling all the stuff we should do.

That'S very, very well, that's very, very true. I did say to Jim, you should read this a couple of times. And Jim's coming in saying, I've been listening to Crushing it and these.

No, no, I didn't actually say that. What I did is I came into you and said, okay, now we should do this and this and this and this. And you said, you've listened to Crushing it, haven't you?

Well, that's that's exactly.

That's how it happened.

That's more like that.

You figured it out.

That's true. Yeah. That's how I figured it out. So I've given Jim one, which is Can't Break Me by David Goggins. I hope Jim does listen. I think a lot of the stuff that David Goggins says Jim actually probably does, but I'm actually buying exercise box and putting in my living room based on this book because I want to improve my cardio, because my cardios are something that I always avoid. So I might want to go to things I don't avoid. All right, so make sure you subscribe to the iTunes podcast, the Jimscast on iTunes, Spotify and other places, obviously on Jim's.net as well, and YouTube. And if you've got any suggestions or comments or questions for Jim, you can DM the page or social mediams.net or obviously there's Ask Jim as well, the Ask Gym box on the website where you can ask him a question and we'll get to it.