Balancing Blood Sugar and Building Muscle with Kelly LeVeque

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Foreign. I'm JJ Virgin PhD dropout. Sorry mom turned four time New York Times bestselling author. Yes, I'm a certified Nutrition Specialist, Fitness hall of Famer and I speak at health conferences and trainings around the globe. But I'm driven by my insatiable curiosity and love of science to keep asking questions, digging for answers and sharing the information I uncover with as many people as I can. And that's why I created the well Beyond 40 podcast to synthesize and simplify the science of health into actionable strategies to help you thrive. In each episode we'll talk about what's working in the world of wellness, from personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to healthy aging and prescriptive fitness. Join me on the journey to better health so you can love how you look and feel right now and have the energy to play full out at 100. All right, today we are unpacking pregnancy protein. How much you need? Can you get it in one meal a day? Can you eat too much? We're also going to dig into blood sugar balance and do you need to do the hacks or is there a simpler way to go about this? And if you are using a cgm, what should you be looking for? We'll be unpacking seed oils. Are they bad? Are they not bad? Why? And even digging into some intermittent fasting. We've really gone all over the place today and with super useful information, very actionable tips. I've got Kelly Levesque with me. She's a clinical nutritionist, celebrity health coach and the best selling author of Body Love and Body Love.

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I got acquainted to her, introduced to her by our mutual buddy Dr. Tony Yoon who you've probably seen on Instagram and TikTok and it was she is just fabulous. I really enjoyed getting to know her better. She possibly is the only person I've met who really does live a balanced life life with three small kids. She lives in Southern California with her hubby and their beach loving kids and is out there doing amazing work. You're going to love this interview. And again, she has lots of actionable tips and she's also given a free guide. You can grab that@jjvirgin.com Kelly K L L Y and I will be right back with Kelly Levesque. Stay with me. Hey jj, Virgin here.

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Kelly Levesque, welcome to the show.

Hey JJ, it's good to see you again.

Well I'm very excited about this cause we are going to. We're gonna go deep but we're gonna major in the majors and that's why.

I've always loved you. Cause let's get the big stuff right first.

Well isn't it amazing that when you get the big stuff right, a lot of the little things just self correct and you don't even have to worry.

About them I mean, it's those macros that really weed out all the junk that gets in the way for sure.

Exactly. And we were talking offline about protein, blood sugar, intermittent fasting. I went, well, there's like three great things that we can get into. And I would love to start first with protein, because especially as a registered dietitian, I would think that maybe some of your training made you a little protein phobic to start with, and maybe not, but maybe has your whole idea about protein changed in the last couple years? What's your stance on protein?

I have always been pro protein because it's what I grew up with, it's what I love to eat. It makes me feel calm and satiated. And actually I took a class when I was going back to school for nutrition. I had an eight year career in cancer and genetics before going back to school for nutrition. And I took a class called Nature of Human Health and Disease and Food Mood and Behavior. So there were two classes and Nature of Human Health and Disease, the thesis that I wrote was on type 2 diabetes. So I understood how protein supports blood sugar balance. I don't think people really realize this, but protein breaks down to amino acids. And amino acids can be used to make glucose if we need it, if our blood sugar is dipping. But it does this amazing job of slowing down digestion, giving us the amino acids our body needs and making us energized and full. And so in that class, Nature of Human Health and Disease, I learned all about how protein actually supports blood sugar balance and how we need it as an essential food group. We can't get it from, you know, we can't just make protein. We have to get essential amino acids. And it doesn't matter if you're fruititarian or vegan, it doesn't matter if you're carnivore. You have to get your essential amino acids from your food. And so I don't really care what your lifestyle is, you gotta get your protein to feel good and satisfied. And then what was super interesting to me was food, mood and behavior was this course where I learned about how amino acids and protein regulate the majority of our hunger hormones and make us feel full. And so while we're in this era of Ozembic and all of these type 2 diabetes drugs supporting us to feel calm and full, we realize they're activating and working on these hormone pathways that are activated by protein. And in reality, if we're getting enough protein and complete proteins that provide us with our essential amino acids, we actually are gonna Feel calm and full for four to six hours between our meals, not needing to snack, and we're regulated and biologically feeling like I feel great. And so protein is the unlock that a lot of people aren't using. And it's just, I mean, even the newest research is really helpful. For me, when working with my clients, there was just a study we were talking about before this started where they compared 0 grams of protein, a placebo group, to 25 grams of protein, to 100 grams of protein in a setting in one sitting. And what they were looking at was muscle protein synthesis. And we know that our muscle is our metabolic currency, that is our metabolism. And so we want to hold onto it. Right. But in the past, they would say if you had protein, you had to have a bolus of protein every three to four hours. And that can be a lot for people to have five to six small meals with their protein and meal prepping. And what we know now is that between 0 and 4 hours, the 25 grams of protein versus 100 grams of protein, there was no statistical difference in muscle protein synthesis or holding on to that lean muscle mass. But from four hours to 12 hours, the people who were ingesting 100 grams of protein had a 40% increase in those hours of muscle protein synthesis. So what I always tell my clients is if you can get enough protein for your body mass. And for me, I'm looking for 0.75 at the minimum per pound of body mass to 1 gram to 1.25 grams, depending on your lifestyle, someone who's super active and working out, or maybe moving into perimenopause or menopause, you need to eat that protein to hold onto your lean muscle mass, and you need to lift heavy. And those are the keys to the kingdom there. And so all of this, when we get in the weeds around how much, how often, it really is just about looking at your overall day and getting those macros right over that 24 hour period.

And so what do you say to the person? Because I still hear this, they're like, there's this protein fear.

Yeah.

Where is it coming from?

There is. Well, I think we need to, we can address the elephant in the room. A lot of times when people are changing their diet, they're also changing the way that they're working out. They may start eating protein and lifting heavy at the same time. There is, and there can be some like, swelling that happens, some water retention that happens in the beginning of a training period. But there is no world in which a woman in, you know, for me, I'm in my 40s. When you're your 40s, your 50s, your 60s, who is eating protein and lifting heavy, they are not even in their 20s or 30s. You are not going to get bulky. You are going to be build lean muscle mass and lean muscle mass. I always give the example like a pound of fat is about the size of a football and a pound of lean muscle mass is a pound of ground beef. If you've ever cooked that in your house, the size is so much smaller and all you're going to do is lose inches over time. So we really can't look at the scale either because when people are ingesting enough essential amino acids, we can have organ weight that improves. We have muscle mass there, we have bone density. There's so much there at play that we, if we're using the scale as our barometer for how we feel, look and perform, we're working from the 1950s and 60s. We really need to move into DEXA scans, we need to move into measurements. You need to look at your strength over time. And you know this because you talk about aging powerfully all the time. That's how we can set ourselves up for success.

So the other piece of this, and you know when you talked about protein, you talked about muscle protein synthesis. That's just one role of these essential amino acids and amino acids, you look at all the other work they need to do and the fact that it's not like they're. I mean, sure, we stored them in our muscles. That's not where you want to go get them. And we've got what, 300 grams of, you know, amino acid turnover a day. So it's got a lot going on. What do you think? Think about. Because I've been very intrigued with essential amino acid supplementation and I've been digging into it a lot because as I started to recommend and really get, get fierce about people getting in enough protein and optimal protein, that thing I kept hearing, I heard two schools of thought, one were, one were protein phobic and the other just was like, I can't eat that much. Which I'm like, then just eat it first. It's how can you not eat a 5 ounce chicken breast? Come on, you can do it. But the other side of that I think is really interesting, especially for 60s, 70s, 80s is to supplement with essential amino acids. It just makes sense to me. What are your thoughts on it?

I've been really impressed with the research, actually, when we look at the research of essential amino Acids, we can see an improvement in lean muscle mass and an increase in muscle protein synthesis. It is so simple to mix into water, it dissolves almost like a collagen. They taste horrible. Just full disclosure, a lot of essential amino acids are covered with natural flavors, Citric acid, malic acid. And then you can get them in capsule form if you don't like the taste and you want unflavored. But the research is there and it has been for a long time actually. And there are even fermented blends coming from places in Asia like Japan. There's. The research is there and it's so easy to incorporate. Whereas an incomplete protein like a collagen or a bone broth might not get. It's not going to get you the leucine. You need to have muscle protein synthesis. And when we talk about essential amino acids, like you said, there's such a need for amino acids in our body, from everything from our neurotransmitters to our hormones to your epithelial lining. So when we talk about the development of leaky gut and autoimmune diseases, I mean even your immune system is requiring so many amino acids. And we think about getting sick or having leaky gut or having an autoimmune condition that is going to impact your ability to get in the gym and work out, to sleep properly. It's sort of a no brainer for me in regards to aging powerfully and what you talk about. Because there's kind of no excuse now at this point to hit your macros especially, especially your protein bucket because that's really gonna keep you in the game.

And I look at this, I'm amazed this is not used more and especially not used say in hospital settings, rehab, like when my son was hit by a car. And in a hospital like I was bringing in, I had protein shakes going. But I also put in essential amino acids. Cause I knew he had a huge flux need for them. I look at essential amino acids and collagen completely different. Like I think we have to get. There's just this idea out here of collagen as protein. Think of collagen even though it's the most abundant protein for joints, for hair, skin and nails, for all of that. So I do that, but I don't do that for muscle building. Those are two separate things. How about all of the still prevailing misconceptions out there about protein that people are. And I'm just amazed, but it's still out there when I talk about it. People concerned about their kidneys, people Concerned about their bones. So what do you say to some of the myths out there?

Well, we just have to point it back to the research. Like I think the idea that we, you know, I think that terms like condominium, like meat, should be a side of your, on the side of your plate and not the main component of your plate. Like when we talk about cell turnover, when we talk about health of the human body, the most important thing that we need, the essential nutrient that we need is essential amino acids. It makes everything in our body, from neurotransmitters, like I said, to hormones to cells to muscle cells. And it's constantly turning over and majority of us aren't getting enough of it and we're seeing the side effects of that, like these chronic lifestyle diseases. When you look at things like people with type 2 diabetes, this is a lifestyle based disease based on eating too many carbohydrates. And the way to get our blood sugar balanced and to feel satisfied is ingesting enough amino acids. And so going back to the research and teasing out where some of those myths might have really started, maybe like the processed meat, a processed meat study that links processed meat to colon cancer. And then all of a sudden meat's being bucketed together. When we really look at nutrition science and we look at these studies, a lot of them are community based, they are survey based, they're not double blind placebo studies. We're not taking into account genetics, someone's muscle mass, how they work out their family history. And so making these conclusions on something that may be just simply correlated is what gives our news headlines. In reality, it's a disservice to so many of us, especially women, because we're the group that really listens to these headlines and starts to cut out protein in our diet or leans on. I mean, I can think about clients that, that I've had who have maybe dieted and worked out their whole life. And I sit down with them and they are in menopause or in perimenopause and they're having a hard boiled egg for breakfast. And there's no understanding that's only 6 grams of protein. And for someone who's 130 pounds, I want them to hit 130 grams of protein a day. We need to get strategic about where they can get those essential amino acids in a compact way. So if that means having chicken or salmon or steak for breakfast, that's a little bit more efficient than one egg at 6 grams of protein or a protein shake.

Yeah, well, you're Gonna have to do a lot of eggs and you'd overload your fat. So. Right. That's where food tracking can be so helpful. And you know, I'm actually adamant. That's one of my first steps with people because to food track and not just food track, but to food track with the food scale so you can really see, see it because it is an eye opener. You realize you're not getting it. And as you said, if you just lead with protein, like you're not hungry. It's so easy, right? It's like you look at, why are these GLP1 drugs working? What does protein do?

Right? And there's, it's interesting because there are so many hunger hormones that are activated when we're eating. And like, for example, like pyy is this peptide, YY is this hormone that if we aren't eating enough protein, we crave sugar. And so that's one of these misconceptions where when people lean into intuitive eating and they're like, well, I'm feeling like I'd like to have some sugar. And the reality is if they've probably been on a blood sugar roller coaster, they're probably under eating protein. Because when you are eating protein consistently at meal times and getting enough to regulate hunger hormones and keep you focused full and elongate that blood sugar curve over time, the sugar cravings go away, the afternoon crashes go away, the late night obsessive thoughts about food go away. And it isn't about controlling what you eat anymore. It's about understanding how to plate up what allows you to forget about food between meals.

Yeah, the intuitive eating. If I'd done intuitive eating when I was in college, I would have been living on frozen yogurt and popcorn licorice. No, seriously, because my body, I was like, oh, I need like a carb, carb, carb, carb. It's like it works when you've got a healthy metabolism and you've trained your taste buds and, you know, got everything under control. When you talk about pyy, it makes me think of that protein leverage hypothesis and how, you know, they first found it with locusts and then monkeys. And I think now they've proven it in humans that we will overeat in an attempt to get protein. And it sound, sounds like there's the mechanism for it 100%.

I mean, you have nerves that innervate your gut lining looking for essential amino acids, looking for essential fatty acids. And so, you know, there is. We shouldn't be throwing all of our fat out. We Absolutely have to get those omegas from our food as well. They're anti inflammatory, they support brain health, cognitive development in humans and have shown to support that over time. But when we look at the animal protein sources, a lot of them, pasture raised red meats, they're coming with source, they're coming with omega 3 doses that we need along with wild fish like salmon and halibut. I mean if you're, if you're plating up animal protein, it is. And it's interesting because my views have changed. Like I wrote my first book, Body Love was all about balancing blood sugar using what I call the fab four protein, fat, fiber, which is your non starchy vegetables and leafy greens. So it was a way to focus my clients on what doesn't break down to glucose, what doesn't break down to blood sugar quickly. And if you use that list, you're plating up essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and then what I would consider the essential fibers and antioxidants from plant based foods that support your gut microbiome and give you a slow dose of glucose while also slowing down digestion and keeping gut health at the forefront. But when we look at, like when we look at people not plating that type of meal up, they're not regulating their hunger hormones, they're not feeling full and like you said, they're not getting those essential amino acids and fatty acids that the brain is constantly looking for to make us feel full. So if they're not plating protein first. And like you were on my podcast and I loved your example, a salad with your sugary nuts and your dehydrated cranberries and it's like, it's really just dessert, A Snickers bar on a plate with a little leafy greens. Prior to your meal, you are going to fill up on the things structurally fill up. And so if you're filling your stomach and stretching your stomach, you are going to regulate some hunger hormones like ghrelin and you may really, that protein may take a back burner and then you're going to be hungry within, you know, three hours looking for your next meal.

So you mentioned one and I love your fab four. It's like the trifecta when I say eat by the plate, it's basically protein, fat and fiber. And I really look at this and I think the first place when we're thinking about fat, if you're eating clean, like you said, pastured wild, et cetera, you are getting healthy fats alongside the protein. When you look in Nature, animal, protein, seafood, they all come with fat. It's when you feed them incorrectly that you start to push the profile in the wrong direction. And then you look at, like, how do you get some of those? If you need more fat, how do you get some of those whole fats in nature things more like avocado and nuts and seeds. We didn't talk about this offline, but since it's come up, I just feel like I must address the seed oil situation. And I'd love to hear your take on it because you talked about essential fatty acids. And I think part of what we forget is that there's omega 3s and omega 6s that are essential, right? So there is a difference between.

Eating.

Nuts and seeds and eating a industrialized seed oil that possibly has been damaged and oxidized. So what is your take on seed oils?

I think it's unfortunate that they're so omnipresent in our food supply. You know, when we pull trans fats off the shelves. And industrial seed oils became a cheap and easy fat source to throw into our granola bars, using our chips, roast our nuts with. I mean, these weren't prominent in our diet, and we can't get our hands on them. I mean, the only one that you could potentially maybe get your hands on as a human being and not in the industrial world would be like grapeseed oil. But the majority of these oils are sunflower, safflower, corn, cottonseed, and unfortunately, they are predominantly omega 6. And omega 6 is a polyunsaturated fat that if you're eating an almond, those polyunsaturated fats come in. You have vitamin E, which is an antioxidant that protects the oxidation of that fat. When it's in a hormone whole food form, like you're having a nut, it's in the whole food form. Those omega 6s are coming in a lower dose. When we concentrate them and use these industrial seed oils, they're predominantly omega 6. Omega 6 is hot, can oxidize so quickly with light and heat. And a lot of these industrial seed oils are processed with chemicals like hexane, which oxidize them even further. And what we see in the research is over. Ingestion of omega 6 oils creates inflammation in the body, but it creates this toxic byproduct called hne, which is implicated in everything from heart disease to cancer. And now, I think was in 2019, my second book came out, and the numbers, when we looked at the body's levels of omegas, omega 3 to omega 6. Back then it was 1 omega 3 to 25 parts omega 6. And we're supposed to have a 1 to 1 ratio.

I thought it was 1 to 4.

Oh, sorry, you're right, it is supposed to be 1 to 4, but yes, but the 1 to 25 ratio, which is obviously close to five times what we want, was even in 2019. And now we're seeing it. Now we're seeing it 1 to 40 based on the amount of industrial seed oils being used from not just fast food, they're being used in a lot of healthy gluten free, paleo style snacks that they're all using sunflower and safflower oil as their frying oil and binding oil, which is tough to see because you want that balance to create an anti inflammatory body or at least to be able to handle the problems that you come in contact with, which you don't want chronic inflammation, you want inflammation for healing. And with those types of ratios, we're down the rabbit hole towards chronic lifestyle diseases and inflammation.

I had no idea I'd gotten into the 40 to 1 range. I knew we were at 20 to 1. I was like, oh my gosh. But 40 to 1 and I just did an omega quant and did one with my husband and my son too just to see where everybody was. And that's an easy thing that you can do. There are under 100 bucks that will look at your all your fatty acids, but specifically give you an omega 6 to omega 3 ratio to see where you're at. And then if you're overloaded, it takes a bit to correct because you've got to, you know, you've got these things stored. So got to give it a little bit of time and kind of push more on the threes, but makes a big difference. So that's very cool. Since we kind of skirted around it. Let's get into blood sugar and see specifically again, if you're eating protein first, if you're eating by your fab four, eating by my trifecta plate, which is protein, fat and fiber, we're gonna have good blood sugar control. But how critical is it? What made you look at this as such a big lever? Why is this something people need to pay big importance to?

Yeah, well, when we see an increase in blood sugar and you can, if you were getting a blood test, you're looking at your glucose, you can look at insulin levels, you can look at A1, which is a snapshot of your 90 day blood sugar range. What we see is an increase in blood Sugar causes an increase in insulin. An increase in insulin creates an increase in inflammation. That increase in inflammation creates a decrease in sensitivity to insulin, decrease in sensitivity to leptin. It increases the chances that someone would develop pre diabetes metabolic syndrome. And that inflammation is really just laying the foundation for chronic lifestyle diseases. And so it is normal for blood sugar to come up and come down, but with kind of the sad American diet and all these acellular carbohydrates. And when I say acellular carbohydrates, these are processed carbohydrates that have been obliterated from their fiber cell. So when you talk about your trifecta plate or I talk about the fab four, we're talking about fiber, whole foods. And in a whole food, the fiber cell wraps up that sugar or starch, right? Whether it's glucose, fructose, it's wrapped up. And so we have to chew and digest through it to slowly release those sugars. And that's, I think, nature's way of supporting our blood sugar balance. It truly slows it down. That fermentation happens in the gut with our microbes versus an acellular carbohydrate. Think rice flour versus rice, high fructose corn syrup versus corn. These are highly processed, concentrated carbohydrates that we aren't really prepared to handle. And they're in our diet, throughout our whole diet. Majority of when we look at Americans, over 70% of the foods that they're eating is highly processed. And so that causes a major spike in blood sugar. If you think about, I always use the example of if you were to say have rice and put it in a glass of water and try to see it dissolve, or versus rice crackers in a glass of water, it dissolves into a flour. And when you think about that lining, your epithelial lining and how quickly it is being digested, the speed influences the spike. So the speed at which something is digested increases the spike and our pancreas overreacts. It releases loads of insulin to bring that blood sugar down. And what we can see is a hypoglycemic reaction in clients who are trying to maybe eat healthy, maybe they're counting calories, they're not focused on the macros. This is a big disservice because their blood sugar will spike and crash. And intuitively eating, quote unquote, they would intuitively eat their way into another spike and crash. All they would be craving is more sugar, more carbohydrates, and so leaning more towards whole foods and Fiber wrapped cellular carbohydrates really helps us naturally elongate our blood sugar curve because that glucose is being released slowly through digestion and we're protected by that fiber cell. So it's, that's one thing to consider when you're thinking about carbohydrates and depending on someone's workout and you know, their activity levels, their genetics, their hormones, that's all going to influence how many, you know, their carbohydrate tolerance. But the reality is everyone's plate should first be built by the things that science tells us we need from our food. Those essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and then those fiber rich carbohydrates that slowly release our glucose.

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You to suspicious texts, emails and deep fake videos. Learn more@mcafee.com online protection. What are your recommendations for fiber and carbs each day? Like, what's your range? I know it varies with activity, but where's your range?

Yeah, for me personally, I perform a lot better in the morning when I'm not overloading with carbohydrates. So I'm aiming for about 50 grams of protein. And like an example breakfast for me might be ground beef with like an egg, a fourth to a half of an avocado. And then I'll roll into lunch and kind of keep it lower carb. Maybe a salad with a full chicken breast. Homemade vinaigrette. I may do a light source starch, like a, a butternut squash or something like that. And then I enjoy, I'm. Or maybe I'll put some fruit on it and then I'll enjoy my carbohydrates post workout in the evening. Just based on my lifestyle with three young kids, I'm getting my workouts in in the early afternoon before pickup. I'm kind of.

You're getting your workouts in all the.

Time with three young kids working my schedule. But you know, for me, I would say I'm at like 6:50 to 75 grams of carbohydrate based on my workouts. And I feel, I feel great with that. I know also that gluconeogenesis, which is the product, you know, the creation of glucose from protein really supports my blood Sugar balance. If I'm eating enough protein, my carbohydrate, the quantity of carbohydrates in which I need to eat, I can really be flexible with that and. And still feel great. So. So that's kind of where I'm at. And I use a continuous glucose monitor. And when we talk about glucose, I put a lot of my clients on levels, which is a continuous glucose monitor app tool. And when we look at milligrams per deciliter, what used to be the range was 80 milligrams per deciliter to 120 milligrams per deciliter was the healthy range. Now we see with really active adults and looking at the research and, you know, it can be as low as 65, 70 milligrams per deciliter to 110. And what we want to do is maximize energy, the energy that we have throughout the day, our ability to focus our mood, and that's all influenced by blood sugar. And so if we can keep a tighter range, like a smaller spike and a slower crash, we're looking to elongate it. So it's not just about how high you go, it's how far fast does that spike happen and how slow does it come down. Because if we can keep that spike blunted but elongated over time by increasing our protein intake and mixing our plates with fat and fiber, which slow down the digestion of our meal, elongating it, we have more energy and we have less need to snack. And that's really my goal with clients is how do I get them in that healthy range where their fasting blood sugar is close to 75 milligrams per deciliter, they sleep really well, they have great energy, and they're getting the protein that they need over the day to keep them full between meals and hold onto that lean muscle mass.

Yeah, we are so in alignment with this. And I think that whole being able to make sugar from protein is just something people don't think about. That just makes it easy. Like, I pretty much eat protein and fat for breakfast and go off to the gym and feel great that way. You know, it's. I do very similar to you with the carb side of things and rely more on protein and feel much better. And I've actually always been like that, except for a brief stint into veganism.

I think what happens too, is people don't realize when you are eating carbohydrates, you might have great digestion that breaks those down really quickly and immobilizes them. Into your bloodstream. But what if you have insulin resistance and that blood sugar is hanging around in your bloodstream creating inflammation, making you feel like you have brain fog, low energy, you're not going to make it to your workouts, you're not going to feel as energized. Whereas when you are relying on protein, your body is so in tune and keeping track of your blood sugar and the available glucose for your cells and for your energy levels that when it needs to, it's so much better at creating glucose from stored amino acids in your liver than having to react to whatever you're eating. Which is really cool. It's the coolest part.

This is what I love when we were talking about this offline, the difference between creating a diet like this with exercise, the things that make your insulin receptors work well, that keep your blood sugar stable, versus using tricks, hacks so that you can eat the things. And I'm like, yeah, but that doesn't solve the problem. So can you talk a little bit about like, you know, what's the difference between say eating those things? Like I can eat the cake if I have the apple cider vinegar type of technique?

Yeah. You know, I've been, we both have. I'm like, I've been in blood sugar for a long time. We've both been talking about macros and blood sugar balance for a very long time. And there have been some awesome hacks that have come out of the research. But I think we can't rely on the hacks to get us. It's not a get out of jail free card. So some of the things that can support blood sugar balance would be like eating your carbohydrates last or having vinegar with a high carbohydrate meal. And yes, it has shown some statistical significance in research in vinegar. Specifically, it's acetic acid that lowers the absorption of carbohydrates in our meal. Or eating carbohydrates last. If you're having protein, fat and fiber first, you're just slowing down the digestion of that sugar. But like I said, it's not a get out of jail free card when it comes to the vinegar. I think it's a great addition. It's a fermented food. It is giving you that acidic acid to slow down carbohydrate digestion. But it isn't your ticket for dessert when it comes to eating carbohydrates last. There was actually a research study earlier this year that talked about it took a group of pre diabetic individuals and said, all we're going to do is ask you to eat your carbohydrates last. And what it does, which people I don't think really understand about this hack, is when you're having carbohydrates last, it doesn't take the carbohydrates away. If you had a cup of rice, you still have to digest that entire cup of rice. It just means that that glucose is being absorbed slower if you've had protein, fat and fiber first. Right. But your blood sugar is still going up over time. And so they took this group of diabetics and just them have, or pre diabetics had them have their carbohydrates last. And it actually didn't improve fasting glucose, insulin levels or homa ir, which is a measure of insulin resistance. So it, even though it might have blunted the carbohydrate, spike it over time, kept the glucose going up. And so it's not going to reverse inflammation, it's not going to lower insulin, it's not going to improve their state. And we really have to say like what is their carbohydrate tolerance? Because just having these carbs last, the body is over, it's, it's being flooded with glucose. In reality, if they're type 2 diabetic, I've worked with functional MDs for almost a decade now. We can get most of our patients who are pre diabetic off diabetic type 2 diabetes medications with lifestyle interventions. And that actually means lifting some weights, sleeping well and da da, pulling some of those carbohydrates out of their diet.

So.

It'S not a get out of jail free card, but the recommendations to walk after a meal or that is high in carbohydrates, that is something that will support blood sugar over time. Because when you're moving your body after you eat a high carbohydrate meal, you're burning some of that glucose, bringing insulin levels and glucose levels down over time.

What's cool is if you eat protein first, likely you won't want that, but you'll be full. And that's the big goal too I find is if you're eating protein, then your next thing is a lot of non starchy vegetables. Like you're full.

Yeah, you're just full.

And so then, and I like walking after meals just for the digestive aid too. It's fantastic.

Yeah.

One last one let's tread into is intermittent fasting and where you are with. And I always say that. And I think the biggest challenge we have with intermittent fasting is the definition because I'm like, to me, intermittent fasting of 12 hours is normal eating. So when I think of intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding, I'm looking more at are you doing one meal a day or you know, eating within a really short window or doing straight, 24 or 48, 72 hour fasting. So kind of what's your feeling of all these different techniques and where they might have a role?

Yeah, it's funny, Omad, one meal a day. I remember my Nature of Human Health and Disease teacher who was in his 70s at USC was Omad and I had never heard of it. And I, you know, that was back in. And I graduated college in 2005. So that was like 2004, 2005 and that was an anomaly. It's interesting, I feel like the longer I am a nutritionist, not just working with my podcast or writing books, but actually working with clients. I think I like to make that different, like to be very clear that I work with clients and intermittent fasting, the more that I work with clients, the less aggressive I am over time. And that's all about getting those basics right. Because a lot of times I'll sit down with clients and they want to make all these sweeping lifestyle changes. They want to intermittent fast, they only want to eat two meals a day, they want to make all their meals, they never want to eat out, they're never going to have a glass of wine ever again. And then it all kind of falls apart.

Yeah, it's like. And then a week later they're like, hell with that.

You just can't get consistent like that. You're right. And we just can't get consistent. And so I have goals for those clients. And not eating in a 12 hour window like you said, is sort of normal eating. But I have a checklist for clients of the most science backed things that are going to be the biggest levers they can pull. Protein intake is number one there. Sleeping well and not eating super late at night is also going to have major benefits because you're going to digest that food. You're not going to go to bed with high blood sugar. You're going to get better sleep because of that. You're going to have better recovery from workouts, moving your body, keeping feeding to a 12 hour window. So a lot of times someone will want to fast and I'll sit down with them and they're having their first bite of food when they're feeding their kids or they're heading to the gym at 7:00am and they're eating dinner with their husband at 8 or 9:00 clock at night after people are asleep or their reservation was super late. And in reality, I always take people to 12 hours first and then I shrink it to 14. Say, how can you not eat for 14 hours? That's a phenomenal benefit for insulin sensitivity for also ensuring that if they are eating three meals a day, they're able to meet that protein requirement first. And so that takes hierarchy over intermittent fasting to me because I'm looking for them to hold on to their metabolic currency, which is their muscle mass.

Yes. And the other great thing is that allows you to have a life and to have eat within a normal circadian rhythm.

Right.

I just say eat within the daylight hours and if you're looking for some quote unquote magic pill, you know, have a fast for 14 hours a day instead of 12.

Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think about your professor at USC. I think, oh my gosh, 70 years old. Omad. Yikes.

Yeah. I mean, he was, he wasn't, there wasn't a lot of muscle mass there, we'll put it that way. He was, he was more frail. I'm sure that his glucose in A1C was perfect. He focused a lot on that being, you know, pet professor. That taught us a lot about type 2 diabetes and, and our pancreas and all of that. But yeah, it's not how I want to be at 70. I want to be a lot stronger than that.

Well, it's like that's why you have to have that big picture. I love everything you've talked about because it's so okay. Blood sugar balance is important. Insulin sensitivity is critical. Muscle mass is critical. You have to look at all of these things and I look at diets as tools and sure, Omad could help with insulin, insulin sensitivity, but at the expense of muscle. And great muscle can really help with insulin sensitivity. So there's better, probably healthier, safer ways to do things. Now, I know you have a guide for everybody. Your Fab four Guide. I'm so excited. Your Fab four is the place thing that we do. We are so crazy in line. It's fantastic.

Yeah, no, I just. The Fab four guide is a two page guide on how to get you exactly what you need on your plate, the right portion sizes for your weight and age, and it gives recommendations based on what's easy. I think a lot of times, like we said, if you're looking to meal prep or you're downloading 20 new recipes for the week, we really need to simplify. Like, how can you make sheet pan dinners, a whole chicken, things that you can simply set it and forget it and have protein for the week. I mean, that is key for me and my life and majority of my very busy clients.

Yes. I haven't had anyone ever say to me, could you give me a really difficult recipe? I'd love to do that. It hasn't happened yet. I don't know. So I love that I know you. Also, I've been following some of the stuff on Instagram. Don't you do a bunch of sheet pan dinners?

I do so many sheet pan dinners. I mean, I have three little kids, five and under, so this dinner needs to be ready in 20 minutes, and I need the Fab Four on their plate. So that's how we get it done.

Nice, Nice. All right, so that will be@jjvirgin.com Kelly. It is. K, E, L, L, Y. Tell us where else people can find you because you've got a lot of fun stuff going on and you're a busy, busy mom, too.

Yes. So I'm on instagram and Facebook. WellByKelly. My website is Kelly Levesque or bewellbykelly.com I have the Be well by Kelly podcast. JJ was a guest. It was one of our favorite episodes. Mine for sure, because you're the goat, and I have and built my business looking at you as an example and knowing that a career as a nutritionist outside of a clinical setting, outside of the USDA guidelines was possible. And so I'm forever grateful for you being a North Star. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Thank you for being a guest and definitely go listen to that episode. JJ shows up like she always does.

Ah, well, thank you for that. I didn't expect that plug back. Yes. You are doing amazing, amazing work. And I know you're just. I mean, literally, I look at, you're just getting started. You're what, in your 30s? Little spring?

I wish. I am 40. I am officially 40.

Oh, my gosh. You're 40 now. Okay, well, now you're in powerful aging mode.

I actually feel very. Yeah. Laser focused and clear on what's to come. So I'm very excited.

Yeah, it's a great time, I'll say, to be in your 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s. Like, the information we now have. I am, like, more fired up now. Like, I just turned 61 and I'm like, all right now. Now let's really get the power training in. So I fully intend to be full full court press in my 80s doing all of this. So thank you again and jjvirgin.com Kelly be sure to get grab that guide and I'll put all of your other channels up there too so people can check them out.

Thanks jj.

Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look and feel great and are built to last. Check me out on Instagram, Facebook and my website jjvirgin.com and make sure to follow my podcast@subscribetoj.com so you don't miss a single episode. And hey, if you're loving what you hear, don't forget to leave a review. Your reviews make a big difference in helping me reach more incredible women just like you to spread the word Word.

About aging powerfully after 40.

Thanks for tuning in and I'll catch.

You on the next episode.

Hey JJ here. And just a reminder that the well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness and nutritional information that's designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes. The use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk.

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