[Bonus Episode] Keto Fast with Dr. Joe Mercola

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90% of the people eat over 12 hours a day. 90% of the people, because no one's.

By the way, like, think back even five or ten years ago, no one was talking about the fact that we needed to do any kind of time restricted eating ever. You know, it was more. It was more people were concerned. Don't let yourself get hungry, right? You know, like, like some horrible thing would happen if you got hungry, you know? Hey, it's JJ and welcome to Ask the Health Expert. But this isn't just any old Ask the Health Expert session. This, this is your bonus session. Yes, it's the weekend and because it's the weekend, we are gonna take some time with an amazing expert. So be on the lookout for these.

Saturday Ask the Health Expert bonus sessions.

Where we're gonna go deep into an amazing subject with an incredible expert to give you actionable items that you can.

Put into your life.

Today we are welcoming back to, to the show one of my long, long time pals, Dr. Joe Mercola. I am super, like beyond excited and kind of obsessed with this topic. Today I'm obsessed with Joe's new book, Keto Fast and it is one that you are going to want to have. The hardcover of the Kindle of. This is so amazing. He sent it to me early, early on, said, hey, you know, review this, tell me what you think. And I'm like, oh, my. And I am just floored by the information in there. So I'm bringing them on today. I can tell we're going to be doing more on this because there's so much to talk about, but what Dr. Joe Mercola has done has really deconstructed fasting, ketosis, intermittent fasting, and put together an easy to use plan that will make a major difference in your life. So he's going to be deconstructing that with you today. We are really excited about it. Before we dive in, let me tell you a little bit about him. We're welcoming him back to the show. We did a show before on oxidative stress. We'll link to it in the show notes. You'll definitely want to tune into that as well. The show notes for today are jjvirgin.com ketofast and Joe has the number one natural health website in the world. He educates, empowers millions of subscribers to take control of his health. He has really been the force out there helping to make changes in our crazy healthcare system. He's a New York Times bestselling author, frequent media personality, and a wellness champion and visionary. And just all around. Can I say it? Cause I'm fortunate to call him friend. A generous, kind, giving soul. He's done so much to help me and my family and he is really one of the reasons that not the reason I've been able to get my message out to the world. Because early on we went out to dinner and he sat down and told me what I needed to do to impact more people. He is just a kind, awesome human. So I am super excited to have him with us today. Now, before I dive in, I want to share this favorite with you.

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All right, welcome back. Dr. Joe Mercola. I am so excited to talk about fasting with you. I can't stand it.

Me too. I love it.

Full disclosure, I have been obsessed with your book that's not out yet, Keto Fast. Although it might be when this podcast comes out and it is really digging into ketogenic diets, fasting, intermittent fasting. It is. Oh my gosh, it is fantastic. Fantastic. So great job on that. Thank you for that. It is the resource everybody needs. Let's dive in first about fasting because I see people going just like, okay, I'm going to fast. But just diving into fasting without the right prep can be really dangerous. Why is that?

Great question. When I initially decided to write the book Keto Fast, I was under the belief that the most important metabolic intervention I've ever seen in my 30 plus years of clinical medicine was multi day water fasting. And although I still believe that it's a powerful tool, I think it's dangerous for most people. And I do not recommend it unless under very specific unusual circumstances because. And so that's, that's the historical framework for it. And the reason I reached that conclusion is as I was studying it, compiling the literature and information, I realized that when you, that we live in the 21st century. So multi day water fasting historically has been done for centuries. I mean, for thousands of years, you know, cultures have done it and with great results. But guess what? 21st century, we have over 80,000 chemicals in our environment and most of them are fat soluble. They stick in our fat. So when you're multi day water fasting, you're going to release these toxins and you're not eating any food. So you're, you're not going to give your body the nutrients it requires to successfully change the mo. Those toxin molecules so that you can effectively eliminate them from your body. And instead they'll damage, they'll cause a lot of damage. That's one of the reasons.

And also, I mean, when a thousand years ago we were more metabolically flexible, we used to skipping meals, we weren't getting up and going, it's breakfast time and then I have to have my snack, you know, Right?

No, no, and what keto fast does is essentially replicates ancient historical practices in a, in a, you know, 21st century framework. Because essentially, virtually, unless you're really clued in, almost no one that is eating less than 12 hours a day. I mean, Sachin Panda's work, who's out at the Salk Institute in California, great book. He wrote the, he did some research and found that 90 of the people eat over 12 hours a day. 90% of the people.

Because no one's taught, by the way, like think back even five or ten years ago, no one was talking about the fact that we needed to do any kind of time restricted eating ever. You know, it was more, it was more people were concerned. Don't let yourself get hungry.

Right.

Like, like some horrible thing would happen if you got hungry, you know, and.

It'S still taught by maybe the majority of dietitians to eat around the clock. That's what they're telling people to do. And it's the wor, it's the, it's a prescription for disaster. Metabolic disaster.

Yeah, craziness. But I remember way back when, when I was on Dr. Phil, it was like you had to have breakfast, a snack, lunch, a snack, and you needed to have a snack before you went to bed, which is the craziest of.

All, which is the worst time to have a snack before you know you don't want to eat any food three hours before you go to sleep.

Yes. And let's hit that real quick because we're going to talk benefits of fat. We have so much to talk about. But just I've said it, I want them to hear it from you. Why should you have that three to four hour fast before bedtime? Why is it important?

Because when you give your body fuel, it wants to create energy out of it. And if you're going to use energy, that's great. So that's why you need a big, healthy, good breakfast. If you're doing a lot of physical work and exertion is a great idea because you're going to use that energy, it's not going to go to waste. You're not going to create these excessive oxygen oxidative damage. But if you take it when you're going to sleep, you don't have a need for much energy. It's the lowest amount of energy. Use it in the entire day and you're going to back up the system and it's going to create these free radicals which are going to damage your DNA and your proteins and your cell membranes and you're Just going to die prematurely. That's just no way around it.

Snack at night, die prematurely. There it is.

Yeah, I mean that's essentially. Now it may be minimal. It depends on your snack and what you're eating and with your other level. So you can't, you know, it's not like you're going to die, drop dead tomorrow. But it's definitely not helping you. It's not pushing your body in the right direction.

And you don't need that.

No, no you don't. Well, you need it if you want to accelerate your death rate. But.

All right, now fasting benefits like, because I know as you started to get in this and you said it was one of the most therapeutic things and you're going to show us how to do this in a way that's simpler to implement and be compliant to. But what are some of the benefits of fasting?

Before we go into the benefits, let's just finish up on the keto fast because you can get these benefits which I'm going to talk about in a moment, like 50 to 100 times a year. When you're doing multi day water fasting, you can, I mean if you're really overweight, maybe you can do it once a month, a five day water fast, you know, so you do ten times a year. But most people are going to do that. So most people do it once a quarter, once every year or you know, maybe four times a year. So maybe 20 days. This way you can get these benefits 50 to 100 times a year. What are the benefits? Two primary ones. First, you and I are both interested in longevity. So it's going to activate your stem cells. That's going to, those are the cells in your body that can, can repair and regenerate the damaged tissue. Heaven. That's exactly what you want to do. So stem cell activation is one of the biggest in my perspective. And then secondly is the cleanup process. There's this word derived from the Greek words for self eating. It's called autophagy. Autophagy. And it is a process that your body goes through if you're healthy to clean up and digest these fragments within your cell, like damaged mitochondria and organelles and proteins that should, that don't function anymore. They're just hanging around and in many cases creating inflammation and oxidative stress. And you're just damaging your body, you can't get rid of them. But when you activate autophagy, your body is able to eliminate them. And then you've got your stem cells activated so that you can replace them. And there's a very specific timing sequence that I go to into that I think I've uncovered. Jp, you don't even have the newest version. I just edited it this week and had them insert the modification of a really important macronutrient. The protein content on that, which is a radical revision that I discovered. I figured it out myself and I didn't read it anywhere or you know, most of the stuff, we're just on the shoulder giants because most of the keto fast came from other people. But this one I figured out myself just through rigorous.

Are you going to share, Are you just going to keep this to yourself and let me age over here?

No, I'll share it with you. But I got to tell you what's a keto fast first. Right?

Okay, okay.

Got to know that. So the first thing, the most important thing in the book is we started to talk about. It's a compressor eating window. That means you eat all your calories within six to eight hours. Now you say, well, what if I just do 12 hours? Well, you're probably not getting any benefits. 14 is a little better. But Jason Fung, who is an enormously well respected researcher and friend of mine, and I Both agree that 16 to 18 hours is probably the sweet spot. So you do that every day now.

You do that every single day or do you rotate that?

No, you do that all the time. That's the base. That's the base. Okay, now, now if you violate it a few times a party, social events, whatever, fine, not a big deal. But normally that's your base, six to eight hours. So that means you maybe eat breakfast at nine and your last meal of days at three.

And I love the way you just did that because what I really look at with time restricted feeding and I think as we start to really understand more about individuals, circadian rhythms, it's always made sense to me. If you're going to like do this, skip the evening. Like, you know, I see people that are having their first meal around 12 or 1 and then having this thing at 7 or 8, I'm like, no, don't do that that way.

Flip it. Yeah, that's the wrong way. You got it. That is the wrong way for the reasons we mentioned earlier. So the first step is compression eating window for at least four weeks. Now if you've not done anything before, the first few weeks are going to be hard because you're going to be not metabolically flexible. You won't be able to metabolize fat so you'll be hungry, tired, and you can take some MCT oil, specifically C. And that would help, but in the, in those times. But you have to do that for four weeks and you cannot do. You can, but I do not recommend it or at. At all until you are metabolically flexible. So you're going into this. So say you've done this for a month, you're eating at nine, you're finished at three. So you, your last meal was at three. You wake up in the morning, you have a meal. That meal consists of a number of calories, anywhere from three to 600. And you figure it out by taking your lean body mass and you multiplying that by 3.3.5 and you'll come up with a number. Say it's 600 calories, you know, so 600 calories, you have that as one meal.

Okay, let's define lean body mass for everybody.

Lean body mass is how much muscle you have or actually the percentage of fat minus 100. So if you're 20% fat, you're 80% lean body mass. So then you would multiply the lean body mass, which is 80% times your weight, to get lean body mass. So if you're, you know, 150 pounds, multiply times 0.8 and that would be whatever that is, 30 or something.

And I'm having to do math on the fly, but super important for people to understand you cannot just take your weight here. It's very important that you're looking at your lean body mass, taking fat out of the equation. Okay?

So once you have that number, the number of calories, then this is the key. This is, and then you do, then you don't eat for 24 hours. So essentially what you're doing is you're creating this window of 42 hours where you're only having 3 to 600 calories. So that type of eating strategy, which you can do twice a week easily, you know, will deplete the stores of sugar in your liver called glycogen. You cannot, you will not deplete your glycogen stores in your liver in a, in an 18 hour daily, intermittent fast. You still have plenty of glycogen left. But when you, when you go 42 hours, you'll hit it, and then your autophagy will go through the roof. Your NAD levels, which, the whole area will go up by 30%. You get all this metabolic magic that occurs. You can do it twice a week and you'll just have, I mean, you'll, you know, you're you're, you just reap these benefits, you radically reduce your risk of chronic degenerative disease. So here's the key that I figured out. So what are those 600 calories consist of? Well, ideally you want have the least amount of carbs you can have. Ideally you can keep it under 10 grams of carbs. That would be the best because then you're not going to replete your glycogen stores. You just won't. So you wouldn't want to have like a grapefruit or orange or you know, a mango or something, is there 600?

So your carbs would come from non starchy vegetables?

Well, yes, that's right. Primarily non starchy vegetables or seeds or nuts. You know, basically, you know, almost all foods have carbs unless it's pure fat like coconut oil, something. So. But you want to keep those really low. And then you keep, and then you figure out whatever your daily protein requirement is, which is typically if you're under 60 or so, about 0.8 grams per kilogram or half of half a gram per pound of lean body mass simply around there. And that's what's how much protein you eat in a day. Because you have eat too much protein, that's a problem. So whatever your normal protein intake is like in my case it's like about 100 grams of protein a day is what I typically 80 to 100. It depends on if I'm working out or not. So I'll have half of that. So 40 grams of protein. This is the key. This is the key because it's commonly thought that that would not be a good idea or strategy. I'll tell you why I went against the conventional wisdom on this, because protein, especially if it's not from an animal source, so you wouldn't want to have a piece of rib eye or whey protein because it's really high in these specific amino acids called branched chain amino acids like leucine, isoleucine and valine. And those specific amino acids are very anabolic. In other words, they activate this pathway called mtor, mechanistic target of rapamycin. And when that's activated, it inhibits autophagy. So that's the last thing you want to do, which is why most people recommend low protein too. But if you're careful with the protein.

But it's not low protein, it's low animal protein with and, and doing a moderate amount.

Well, more specifically low branch chain amino acids. So.

Got it.

And those are highest animal protein. So what would be a Good one. Even though it's an animal, protein is collagen. Collagen has very few branched chains. It, you know, and it's really great support. It's got mostly proline and glycine hydroxyproline and it's great support for your connective tissue. So you can have some that. We make a vegan chocolate protein that's out of this world. Literally tastes like a chocolate shake. So I have one of those, I have some vegan and I have some fermented chlorella. So like I have, I have 40 grams of protein, which is totally counterintuitive. And I notice I'm able to retain more lean body mass and I don't lose as much. Master my twice a week fast, partial fast. So. And then you make up the rest of it with fat. If you don't, if you need more fat, you can use some coconut oil or MCT oil and you know, then you're off to the races and you, and you just do that. And it's so easy because normally you're eating, you know, you stop, you eating at nine, saying you stop at three, well, you're finished at 10 and you're, you're not, you know, you're only skipping one meal and you normally stop eating at three anyway. So it's not like you're dead hungry and you wake up and you're in your normal routine. So there's, it's not like hardly any denial or sacrifice. It's just easy to do.

Right. Well, and the important thing is you've stepped into, into it. So what I, what I've been working with people on is step one, we need to stop you have you eating protein, fat and fiber and knock out the snacks and start drinking water in between meals. So you get used to having two to three meals a day and not snacking and having, you know, starting to eat breakfast, you know, hour two or three after you wake up and dinner, get that dinner down earlier. So that's the first step is to start to work on that, get metabolic flexibility. And so by the time you come here, this is easy. And I think the other thing, Joe, is people are so afraid of feeling a little hunger. And you know, I was, you're not.

Hungry when you doctor, you're just.

Well, but the other part of it too is what if you change that concept too? Because I think a lot of times we're thinking we're hungry, we're not hungry, we're thirsty. But I heard Dr. Joel Kahn say, you know, hunger equals younger And I thought, what if we start to realize a little bit of hunger is not a. Like we've been trained in society, don't ever be hungry. And I'm like, this is silly.

Yeah, but when you're metabolically flexible and especially if you have excess body fat, like most of the country, you're not.

Going to have that blood sugar dump that you have that.

Yeah. You're. You're the hunger. You. Your metabolic flexibility will allow you to metabolize that fat and burn it as fuel. And that hunger really isn't that big of an issue. You may. It's mostly psychological hunger. You're like, yeah, I sure would like to like this. But, you know, it's not like a craving, like a starvation hunger.

Right. Don't you think a lot of the hunger that you're feeling before you become metabolically flexible is not hunger at all? It's either blood sugar issues, insulin resistance, cravings. It's. It's not hunger.

No, that. No, I would disagree. That is true authentic hunger. Because you do. Your body doesn't have fuel. It's requiring fuel, is demanding you get fuel because. And the only fuel that can burn is sugar.

Good point.

Yeah.

Because you cannot access your stored fat for fuel. You can't get that.

Yeah, but. But when you are metabolically flexible and you can, then it's psychological.

Got it. That's awesome. I'm glad I brought that up and you corrected me there.

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So, all right, so that's the framework for it. That's all in the book. And have you been using this with people yet or has this been tested on yourself? Like, what do you. Like, what have you seen so far doing this? Have you been able to try it with some other people?

Well, this is a revision again. I didn't create this. This is a revision of a lot of other people's work. Kristen Varaday out of the University of Illinois, who. I've interviewed him previously in my podcast, came up with the alternate day fast. She is pretty clueless with respect to the details of nutrition that we understand, but she's a really good researcher and a sweetheart and. But she doesn't understand. I mean, she, she just about calories. So you could have a McDonald's and a Coke.

Oh, boy.

You know, so.

But.

But even doing that works. She would, she would have your regular calories and then go to 500 calories every, you know, the next day. And she, it's alternate day fasting. And she got unbelievable results with that. As did, you know, Jason Fung, I don't know if you saw his case report in British Medical journal. He had three patients with diabetes for more than up to 25 years who were on insulin. They weren't insulin dependent, they were just on insulin. Three patients, all they did was compress their eating window and change, you know, types of foods. All of them were off insulin. That's it.

Well, don't you think that was the big appeal? When the 5:2 diet first came out, it was like I did a. I did a little thing on the Today show with David Chinchenko and I thought, this is so confusing, David, because we, I was doing something around sugar impact that they put us together and it was an odd little segment. But basically he had moved to the 5:2 diet type of thing with his next book saying you can eat whatever. It's, you know how he was eat this, not that. Now he was like, eat that, but just eat it during this time period. I go, well, that's silly. What if you like, to me like look at time restricted eating and then eat the right stuff in the window. Don't go to eat a bunch of garbage, which is what selling.

It's the same thing with Chris and Baraday. You know, they got the framework right. They should understand that important details. So, and you're right, the 5:2 diet was, was essentially popularized by Michael Mosley, who's an md, who I also interviewed previously. And he had a brilliant title of his book he called the fast Diet, which is really brilliant if you think about it. Yeah, it was a fast diet. Anyway. This is a revision of that. Okay. It's basically the fast diet. It's five days a week you're eating regularly and then two days a week you're partial fasting. I just changed it up a bit. It compressed the eating window and gave real specific details on how to do it and help people understand the importance of how activating autophagy is such a key issue. And here's the other thing, jj, because after, after your partial fast, you will. You won't believe what happens. So you've got to probably got an aura ring so you can figure this thing out. But Sleep will go through the roof. Your resting heart rate, the lowest resting heart rate you have will occur very early in the night. Your recovery rate and your readiness index will go through the roof and you'll be able to crank. I mean, just do massive strength training and just have an incredible workout. The day after a partial fast, which is the day when you want to re regenerate and repair. So that's when you have the meat or the extra protein and you know, lots of carbs. You know, that's when you feast essentially. So this is like, you know, twice a week you're feasting. I mean literally having more food than you would ever have. So it's kind of fun. And then you actually gain more muscle mass, which is really important.

Yeah, especially, especially as we age to be able to do that. So I'm thinking back, I didn't interview with Walter Longo.

He's passionate. He advocated the fasting mimicking diet, which is what I was going to do initially. Then I talked to him and he said, you can't do that, otherwise we're going to sue the pants off you. Because it's trademarked.

Well, I mean it sounds like you've taken all of this information, synthesized it and then made it and made, upgraded it and updated it and made it very user friendly.

Yes.

And you know, and kind of pulled all the best science together like time restricted eating, but let's eat the right stuff during the time restricted, do the fasting, but let's get in protein so that we won't lose muscle mass. Like what are the, you know, you pulled that all together in an absolutely brilliant and a way. And the thing that I loved about this book that's so key is helping people understand why you don't just go on a fast that you must prepare. I call it priming the pump. If you want to do a ketogenic diet, if you want to do fasting, you don't just go, I'm going to start that tomorrow. When you've been eating a crappy diet, you're insulin resistant, you have to, it's a continuum to get to that place. And that's why people try these things and fail because they haven't done the prep work to get there right so that they can do them correctly. So I really love that you took that time to put that in there so people will understand what that is and what they need to do and then made this so clear as to why you want to do it, but how to do it in a very, I mean, you can do this. This is a very easy thing to put into place.

It's a lot easier than a fasting mimicking diet as promoted by Longo. And less expensive. I mean it's $300 for his five day thing prolonged, which is like, you know, really, really expensive. And it's, it's only a few hundred calories. You know, so it's not like a lot of food. And you are hungry and you still have all the metabolic challenges of detox. Because the other thing that that protein intake does on that partial fasted then neglected to mention is that it fuels your detox pathway so that you're able to properly metabolize these toxins that are released while you're fasting.

Yeah.

Which is hugely important. And that, you know, people just aren't talking about that. So glad to hear all this. I know that we're also. We have a surprise for everybody. Yet to be determined surprise that you will be getting. Yeah.

You know what I might do, it might be. I created this weekend because I just put it in the book. It's the end of chapter eight. It's a, it's a one page eight point summary of how to do this. Eight point.

Oh, that's perfect. I want that now, by the way. So I need to review that, Jo, before we give that to everybody. Kidding. But I'd love to see that as soon as you have it. We would love to give that to everybody. That's fabulous. So we will put that in@jjvirgin.com ketofast all the notes from this link to the book. This book. This is the book. And I was telling Joe before I get sent books every single day and most books I just go put on the shelf. This book has been the book that I've been obsessed with. I think he gave it to me last year and I was just like, oh my gosh. And I don't normally read on my computer. It's on my laptop. So then I had to like make a point. But I was like, it is that good. I was like, I. It is incredible. So I can't wait to have it where I can drag it around with me in a real book.

Let me give you the tech workaround for that. You just get a Kindle and you can upload word files or PDF files as a to your Kindle and then you could read on your Kindle.

I have a Kindle. I just never thought of putting it over there.

Yeah.

Yep.

But I still, I'm old school, man. When I get a book, I really love. I want to have the book on my Kindle, but I also like the, the real book. I like to highlight it, earmark it. I like the book.

If you send me an endorsement for the book that we can put on Amazon, I will send you a draft, a print book as soon as I get it. Okay, you got it. All right.

I sent you an endorsement already.

Okay, then you got it.

Okay, I did. So send it on over. Okay. So again, you'll be getting that@jjvirgin.com ketofast Joe, we have to have you back more and more and more. You're going to be a regular. You just are fantastic. You have such a gift, first of all, for being an amazing researcher and really bringing the science out in a world where it can get really confusing, but then making that so easy to use and easy to understand. So thank you for that. You are a gift to all of us.

Yeah, thank you for those kind words, but all I can say is you haven't seen anything yet.

I'm a little afraid of this, of this thousand, of this thousand page book that's only halfway through.

It's going to probably take me a year to translate because it's like crazy. But I'm reading. I figured out this RSS feed that I could have access to that every day I'm searching like 80 terms on PubMed and I find about five to 10 papers that were published today on those terms. It's like. And it's. And it's seamless. I just present it to me in one feed. It's just crazy.

Wow. Wow. Well, all I have to do is keep in touch with you and then it all comes to me in easy digestible points that I can put into action and give to the community. So there you go. Win. Win. There was your deep dive bonus episode of Ask the Health Expert. We will be dropping these bonus episodes as amazing experts and incredible titles come to us. You don't want to miss out on this, do ya? Stay in the know. Be the first to know. Go to subscribetojay.com and I'll hook you up.

Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't and what they've been reading lately. And I recommend three titles and they may enjoy Reading Next Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And, of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything. You'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast, and Visit our website, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.