[Bonus Episode] Whole Brain Living with Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor

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Hey, it's JJ and welcome to Ask the Health Expert. But this isn't just any old Ask the Health Expert session.

This is your bonus session.

Yes, it's the weekend and because it's the weekend, we are going to take some time with an amazing expert. So be on the lookout for these.

Saturday Ask the Health Expert Expert bonus sessions where we're going to go deep.

Into an amazing subject with an incredible expert to give you actionable items that.

You can put into your life.

So today I am interviewing one of my heroes. I got introduced to her by a friend and she said, would you like to interview Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor? And I'm like, are you kidding me? So you may not have heard of her. However, gosh, I can't remember how many of her, how many millions of people watched the TED Talk. So most likely you have. This is a amazing Harvard trained and published neuroanatomist who crazily enough had a stroke and ended up really learning the difference between the right and left hemispheres. She was named as one of Time magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the World in 2008 and was the premier guest on Oprah's Soul series. I remember watching her TED Talk and I think I read her book to Stroke of Insight. When Grant was in the hospital, my son was in the hospital with a severe traumatic brain injury and he was in a coma. And it really made me realize I was so sure he could hear me and boy, that listening to her was like, okay, he can and gave me that hope. So I am really excited to share this interview with you. It is fascinating and Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor is fascinating. So again, she wrote Stroke of Insight. Now her next book is Whole Brain Living the Anatomy of Choice and the Four Characters that Drive Our Life. Wait till you hear about this. She's got a great gift for you as well. The 90 second reset. You'll be able to get that@jjvirgin.com Jill and here we go. Stay with me.

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Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Thank you, jj. I've been looking forward to this ever since we hooked up, so thank you.

I know when I got this email because we got introduced by a friend, I was like, they said, would you like to do this? I'm like, are you kidding me? Yes, yes and yes. So I'm excited to dive into your new book, but I feel like before we start talking about this, I really want to hear you've got the most amazing hero's journey, your story that I think I'd love to start there and then dig into your book and some of the myths we have about the brain. So would you indulge me a bit with that?

Certainly. So I grew up to study the Brain. Because I have a brother diagnosed with the brain disorder schizophrenia. And he's the closest thing to me that exists biologically. But emotionally and perceptively, he's completely different. So I became fascinated with what am I as a human being? What am I as a living organism? And how does our brain create our perception of reality? So, so eventually, I grew up to study the brain and was teaching and performing research at Harvard Medical School when a hemorrhage exploded in the left half of my brain. And over the course of four hours, I watched my own brain completely deteriorate in its ability to process all incoming information. So I had been left brain dominant. All that information that connected me to the external world was shut down and gone. And what I received, what I gained from this experience was an understanding of what is going on in the right hemisphere when there is absolutely no inhibition going on from the left hemisphere. So through the eyes of a scientist, it was an amazing journey where through the eyes of the hero's journey, my left hemisphere had a calling. It was going to get shut down. I was going to take this journey whether I wanted wanted to or not. So I. And then the. The monsters that the hero battles are the left emotional tissue, and that went offline. So I lost all my. My monsters and I shifted into the consciousness of blissful euphoria, where I was expansive and open. And it. The ultimate. The ultimate aim, the ultimate goal of the hero's journey is to find that peaceful euphoria and inside of our own selves. And then for me, the course of recovery would take eight years, and it would be actually a rebuilding of that left hemisphere so I could go back to living a normal life like a normal person again. And then, of course, the choice of the hero is to bring with them what they had gained or to just go back to living the life that they had lived before. And there was no way I could come back and not bring what I had gained.

I remember. And I wasn't sure if I was reading your book or watching your TED Talk. When my son was in the hospital in a coma, it was one of the things. Because I kept thinking, I know he can hear me. And everything that I got from you is like, yep, I know he can hear me, and I know he'll get through this. So thank you so much. And by the way, my adoptive brother is schizophrenic. Oh. So not only do we love to live on the water, we have this, too. So let's dig into this and let's. I'm Fascinated, of course. Like, I'm a much more left brain dominant person too. So I'm thinking, wow, what would happen if you could just shut that off for a little while and really kind of check in with that? Right? Let's talk brain myths, because I bet there's a bunch of them and I know you're going to debunk some of the big ones, so let's. Which, which would those be?

Yeah, the biggest one is that we only use 10% of our brain. I mean, it's simply not true. Neurons, where did that come from?

Like, that just has been around forever.

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was the father of psychology who, who was writing a, a statement paper who said we are not using our full potential. And then from there, boom, it turned into this myth that we're only using 10% of our brain. And the thing about neurons is they are living creatures and they are social and they are connected in networks, communicating with all these other cells. And so I can guarantee you, if it's a lot, if it's, if it's in your head and alive, you're using it. So that one drives me insane because it's like, oh, well, we only use 10% and it's like, no, no, no, no, we're using all of it. So we may not have the know, the knowledge to be able to say what it's all doing, but you have to consider that we have this perception of ourselves as a three dimensional organism living in a three dimensional space, moment by moment by moment, not even thinking about any of the automatic functions inside of our brain. So I mean, I mean, we're amazing beyond measure. And I just like to give the neurons a little bit of credit for that.

I'm so happy you brought that one up because it's like, I even heard that a couple weeks ago and I'm like, I'm sure that's like some of the other crazy things we hear in the diet world. So it is. Any other ones like that out there? Yeah.

The other really big one is that the right hemisphere is our emotional brain and our left brain is our rational, thinking brain. And if we believe that that's true, then our emotions don't make any sense because, because they're all mixed together. We have positive ones, negative ones, we have internal conflict. So the fact of the matter is we have two emotional modules of cells evenly divided between those two hemispheres. And as humans, then we have two modules of thinking tissue in each of those hemispheres. So we end up with two emotions, one for the past and the present and the future and. And one of the present moment. And then we have thinking of the past and the future and the external world, as well as thinking of the present moment. And one of the most amazing powers we have as human beings is our ability to choose at any moment whether I'm in my past, whether I'm in my present, or whether I'm in my future. Now, how can that even be when I am life in the present moment? Which means a group of cells had to make a decision to step out of the consciousness of the present moment and allow us to have a past and project us into a future. It's just a wonder.

So when you say that, the first thing that popped in my head was, well, how conscious is that choice to, like, I think of myself, and I tend to, like, be out there in the future, hanging out out there. And I'm always having to remind myself, like, to be here, you know, be here now. Like, come back and focus here. Because I'll just stay out there and completely miss what's going on around me. So how conscious is that? Like, do some people just have a default? You know, I've heard that anxious people are focused on the future. And, you know, people who worry or are depressed are focused on the past. Like, how conscious is that?

It is as conscious as we want it to be. We have the ability to train ourselves. So when you consider neurons, neurons are just these beautiful little cells in circuits. And so every ability we have is because we have cells that are performing that function. So I have the circuitry that, when it runs, I experience anxiety. I have circuits that when those cells get stimulated, I feel rageful, I feel angry. I have cells that allow me to wiggle my right finger. I have cells that allow me to define the boundaries of where I begin and where I end. All of those abilities, as different as they are, are completely dependent on the brain cells that are performing that function. So you have the ability to create habitual automated running of whatever circuits you want. So you can train yourself to spend more time in the future, spend more time in the past, or spend more time in the present moment. Hmm.

Okay. Because I would assume then we'd want really to get out of spending more time in the past and being right. That if we have someone who's overly depressed, you know, part of would be to focus, teach them to in either which way. It seems like the smartest thing would be to learn how to focus on being present.

I think that the ultimate goal is to find balance between the right hemisphere and the left hemisphere. But you're absolutely right, because the left hemisphere is our stress circuitry. If I'm somewhere other than right here right now, I'm not paying attention to the present experience. So I may be in my pain from the past, I may be in my fear or anxiety for the future. And my left thinking tissue is actually connected to billions of details out there, controlling them, making it so that, you know, I can arrive somewhere on time. So they're all really wonderful opportunities. But learning who am I, what am I running on automatic and what do I want more of? That allows me to kind of hit that pause button and leap back into the present moment where my stress level goes way down. Because stress isn't in that circuitry. That's the way the left brain does the push, push, push. The right hemisphere does the pause. And we are push pause machines. And if we just run, run the stress circuitry, our adrenals just get even more drained out and people better go to you and figure out what they need to eat to lower their anxiety.

But if we were all, if we were only in the right sounds like we probably wouldn't get anything done.

Completely non functional, blissful, amazing, fun, exciting, interesting, creative, open, nurturing, supportive. But we have to have that left hemisphere. I believe that we have these two beautiful hemispheres that are completely different and separate from one another so that they can balance one another. And so ultimately, the goal is whole brain living. How do we identify the different parts of ourselves so that we can purposely choose who and how we want to be in any moment?

All right, that sounds good. And that's the good thing. So you can learn how to do this.

Yes, yes, you absolutely can. So, so after I gave that TED talk, I ended that TED talk by saying we have the power to choose moment by moment, who and how we want to be in the world. And I had literally 300,000 people write me and say, you did it because you had a stroke. How do I find the peace of that right hemisphere? And ultimately a whole bunch of left.

Focused people wrote that, right? Like a whole bunch of stressed out. But wouldn't you think hearing this, Jill, that living in the world that we live in, it's amplifying your left. You're learning from your. Like, everything's getting trained to be more left focused.

Absolutely. It's been this way for, yeah, it's been this way since really after 1918, following that pandemic, but definitely after World War II, because when that population, that generation had children, they had the boomers. And the boomers, you know, born between 46 and pretty much 64. That population got skewed into left brain dominance with a focus on the external and reward from the external world in the form of materialism. So the value structure of that left brain, which shifted to money. How big's my house? How big are my toys? How what's my education? All those things that we can buy with money really got skewed off into the value structure of the left hemisphere, which is about me, me, mine, my family, mine, my, me, me. So it's all about the me where the right hemisphere doesn't have the identification of me with self and individuality. So it cares about the value of us as humanity, as a group of people and our relationship with the planet.

So you talk about four characters. First of all, you say that we're feeling creatures who sink. So can we unpack what that means?

Yes, when you consider the anatomy, the evolution of a mammal from the reptiles. The reptiles have the sophistication of our brain stem, and then new tissue gets added on top, and then those creatures and the gifts that that tissue brings makes us a mammal. And so for the human being, then we add new thinking tissue on top of that emotion. But as information streams in through our sensory systems, it goes immediately into the cells of our emotions in each hemisphere. So we have alarm, alarm, alert, alert systems. One in the right hemisphere for right here, right now, and one in the left hemisphere that then takes us into the past and says, is there anything in our past that looks scary and give me a reason to push away and say no, and I will push away and say no and very loudly, and it won't be pleasant or, you know, very much grace. So we end up with emotions, information coming into the emotional systems, the amygdala, the hippocampus, and other groups of cells before it then gets processed into higher thinking tissue. So we are feeling creatures who think instead of thinking creatures who feel.

So it sounds like you want the left is going to keep you safe. Right. But it could also hold you back.

Absolutely.

So you need it. But if it's too much or you get rooted in some of this fear, something that happened to you early on in life that now you have this deep memory of, and you project it onto any other situation, you end up in trouble. So I'd love to. I think this has to do with your four characters you talk about in the emotional and thinking brains. Yes, you've walked through a little bit. Let's talk about that a Little bit more, because I really want to understand. Okay, now that we know this, is there a way? And I'm assuming this is the whole brain, you know, the whole brain living program, Is there a way? Is the ultimate goal to get them to interact or to calm the left down? Like what's the goal?

So the ultimate goal is, as you look at evolution. Evolution. New tissue gets added on top of a system that has been around for a very long time and has streamlined all the kinks out of the system between the new tissue and the older tissue. So in the human brain, the new tissue is the thinking tissue. So right now we are streamlining, working the kinks out between the new thinking tissue in each hemisphere with the emotion tissue located below it. We're working the kinks out between the two thinking modules of cells as well as the two emotional modules of cells. So ultimately those four different groups of cells, the two emotional groups and the two thinking groups, when they all come in conversation with one another, then we have the power to choose which of these do we want to have come forward in the next moment based on how I want to live and who I want to be. And that's how we gain true conscious living.

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So how do you do that? Okay, like simple. I'm gonna make it really easy steps like help me. I want to do this right now.

Okay. Okay. So think about the. The left hemisphere is this machine that relates us to the past and into the future. So it's a time machine. A group of cells in the left thinking brain. Character number one, left thinking. That's the tissue that is our rational mind in the external world. And there's a group of cells in there that define the boundaries of where I begin and where I am. So it's going to define me the individual. So I now, Jill Bolte T. Taylor I have construct and I am separated from the universe. I'm an individual separate from you, separate from everything. So because of that group of cells, with that comes then another groups of cells that create language and place meaning on language. So now we have language to communicate in the external world, the left thinking tissue organizes everything. It categorizes, it sets a plan. It likes to control people, places and things. It's punctual. It's all those wonderful things that our A type personality does in the world.

It.

It cares that my stapler goes back where the stapler belongs. It's the only part of our brain that actually cares about that. So that's our character one and jj I encourage people to name these characters because these are four separate identities inside of ourselves based on the anatomy of our brain. So I call my character one Helen. It's short for Hell on Wheels. She gets it done and she is a personality. And my friends can call and Helen picks up the phone and says, okay, what can I do for you? Because she's not feeling chatty. She needs to get the job done. And all my friends will say, well, hello, Helen, will you have some. Will you call us back later this evening? And they know they got Helen, whether or not they want Helen or not. So Helen is fantastic. She's functional in the external world. I. I lost her. She was a brain scientist at Harvard. I lost her details, I lost her abilities, and I became an infant. So we have to have that thinking functional part of ourselves. Do you want to give yours a name, jj? Do you know that part of yourself?

I know. I was like going, could. I'll be Helen too.

I'll let you think about it.

Because they need to be it really. But okay, I definitely have that one. And that's the one that usually picks up the phone and is usually out there on everything.

Exactly.

Helen's definitely my. Helen's definitely, definitely takes over.

Yes, exactly. Your one is a warrior, and she's needed to be a warrior, and she does warrior well. And warriors are actually peacemakers. So just to not confuse everybody, character number two is the emotion in our left hemisphere and the emotion in our left hemisphere is all of our pain from the past and our fear of the future. So if I feel resentment, it's about something somebody did in the past, or if I feel guilty over something I did, or I'm going to shame someone over what they did, et cetera. This is our alarm. Alarm alert, alert. Little 2 year old who is looking for a reason to say no, I don't like it, I don't want it. I don't want it anywhere near me. I'm going to push away and I'm going to do it very loudly or I'm going to run and I'm going to hide from it. So this is a very constricted part of ourself that is designed to save our life. And it's keeping the world of psychology and therapy very busy because we need to manage this part of our character, and we can learn to do that. So that's Little Character two. I call mine Abby. Abby is short for abandoned. Because when I was first born, just think about it, for nine months, I was in a symbiotic relationship with a beautiful warm environment that was liquid. I heard this. The heartbeat of my mother, and I had an environment. And then bam. At birth, whoosh, here I go. All of a sudden, I got air in my lungs. I'm separate. I'm being poked and prodded. Sounds are loud, eyes are. Light is no longer muted. To me, that was my original trauma of birth. And so I call her Abby. Short for feeling, for abandonment. And it's a beautiful part of me. It is the most horrible for my friends to ever encounter because, you know, she's not very nice, but she is designed to save my life.

She's bratty, right?

She's bratty, she's mean, she's bratty, she's loud, she's belligerent. She's all these horrible things. But she was willing to step out of the consciousness of the present moment. And the consciousness of the present moment is where bliss is. So the poor little part of our. That is suffering, there she is right there, and we gotta love her, okay? Character number three is the emotion of the present moment. So the right brain, it's right here, right now. Right here, right now is a perfect moment without that left brain coming in and placing negative judgment on what's right with it, what's wrong with it, what preconceived notion did I have, et cetera, et cetera. Right here, right now is perfect moment. So the emotion of the present moment is experiential. What does it feel like to have my. My clothing on my skin? What does. What do the glasses feel like on my nose? How much humidity is the in is. Is there in the air? And it's experiential. It wants an experience. And it's an adrenaline junkie because it wants fun and it wants excitement and it wants to be alive because it's just alive. And it's creative and open because it doesn't have that left brain saying, no, Jill, you have to. Inside of the lines. There are no lines to the right brain. It just is what it is. So that. And it can be explosive. And it's. It's. I. I'M not an individual because I don't have those cells of my left hemisphere. So it's communal and it's, it's, it likes, it actually likes committees. And it's actually very much what's going on in the brains of our young millennials, because that's another story about why. But they are more right brain than the boomer population, which is more left brain because of the way we were trained, teaching skills through the use of technology. So character three, I call mine Pigpen. Do you remember Charles Schulz with Lucy and Charlie Brown?

Sure do.

And there was this wonderful little character named Pigpen who was always in a dust of storm, right? And he's just present. He's present, he's happy, he's always around. He never says anything negative. He. And he's just there, he's just making a mess. And the first step of the creative process is chaos. And Pig Pen is chaos and good with chaos. And it's like, yeah, whatever is, is great. So that's the experiential character three. And then character four is the thinking tissue of our right hemisphere. And it doesn't have the boundaries of where I begin and end. So this is the part of us that is non emotional, non reactive, but open to the presence of everything. That is atoms and molecules of space blend in with the atoms and molecules of every soul, every cell in my body, and I share that consciousness of the universe through that right hemisphere. Thinking. So if we pray, we're praying to find that consciousness of that character four. If we're meditating, we are meditating to find that character four. So. And it's always there and it exists whether we exist or not. So we have these four very different groups of cells and four very different personalities. Oh, and I call my character four.

Can I tell you what is it?

Queen. Toad. Queen. So she's as big as universe and toad because she loves the water. And this is my lily pad.

I. It's. Of course, of course. And by the way, you may not know this, but we are doing this interview from. I wish I was there from Jill's boat. So she's on the water. I am thinking of two things, Jill. Like, one, when I was, I think maybe 15, 20 years ago, it must have been 15 years ago, I was hit head on and rear ended on the freeway and got carted out on a stretcher, had a massive concussion. And I remember thinking, like, I just was so present and I was so happy and, you know, like, I wasn't stressed about the things that normally would stress me out. I wasn't thinking and worried about stuff. I just was like present and happy now. It didn't last long. It lasted about four months. But I was like, cotton, go. Wow, I wish it could keep this thing. Like, keep it this way, because this is a lot easier to be this way than. But you can't. I couldn't hold onto it. Sadly, the other thing, having just gone to a seven day advanced meditation retreat, it strikes me that this is what meditation is really trying to achieve. Right?

Yes.

Which it took me till about day three to even be able to get into that and get out of my thinking about everything else. Exactly.

Well, and the silence is to get rid of the language. Because the language is all about that left brain communicating and running circuits. It's all circuitry. So really having the choice to choose which of these circuits I want to run is our power. And you ask me what's the ultimate goal? It's what I call a brain huddle. And a brain huddle is when at any moment in time, I can be in my unhappy character 2. I can be in my organizing Helen. I can be out playing as my little character three. Or I can be out in nature and just feel the expansiveness with incredible, intense gratitude that I exist at all. Any of these characters can call what I call a brain huddle. And in that moment, I purposely bring all my characters into my mind's eye, into my understanding, and they have a conversation. And in that conversation, they have to bring their minds to the present moment. I have them focus on breath. B, R. Of course my acronym is going to be brain, because that's all I have to offer, really is brain. R is to recognize which character called the brain huddle. A is to appreciate that regardless of whichever of those four I was exhibiting in that moment, I have all four available to pick from. I is to inquire, who do I want to come out next? Who's the appropriate response in the next moment? And then N will stand for navigate. Navigate moment by moment based on a circumstance. Maybe I need to, instead of using my character one, I need to jump into my three and bring some humor. But my character one wants to come in and fix everything. But the ultimate goal is to get all those characters talking to one another so that we do have the power to consciously know each of them, recognize the value of each part of us, and then in any moment, be able to step into that consciousness and bring that one forward. And to me, that's personal freedom.

Wow. Would you have had Any idea of this? Like, prior to the stroke, were you aware of any of this?

No. No, because then, you know, I was. I was a right hemisphere dominant child. My brother with schizophrenia was so smart, he was achieving all my parents accolades of a smart child. So I didn't have to be. So I was very musical, I was very athletic, I was very artistic, I was very good in nature. I was very right brain dominant. And my poor mother wondered if I was ever going to become scholastic and turn on my other hemisphere. And it wasn't until college when I fell in love with the subject of anatomy. And anatomy was so beautiful to me that that's then I just wanted to know everything about the human body. And I ended up being able to teach gross anatomy, cadaver lab, neuroanatomy, anatomy of the brain and tissue anatomy and all those beautiful cells you always talk about and what's actually going on visualizing those and how beautiful the physiology of the body is. So I fell madly in love with, with, with the anatomy of what we are as human. But to do research, the only real, you know, final frontier was the brain. So I chose neuro for research. And then I, you know, out of the blue, had this hemorrhage and I lost the left hemisphere. But I had a strong right brain to fall back onto. So I was okay with the fact, like with your concussion, I was really happy. I was sitting there drooling, I couldn't move at all. And my mother would say, child, how can you be in this condition and be so happy? And it was like, I'm alive. I was just so thrilled I was alive. Whether it could function at the level it ever did before didn't matter. What mattered was what did function. And that I did, under certain circumstances, the right circumstances, be able to recover and regain all those functions again.

God, what a gift that was for everybody.

People say to me, jill, if you could go back to that day and not have the stroke and just bypass this whole experience, would you do it? And I say, absolutely not. That stroke was the greatest gift of my life for several reasons. First of all, it gave me an opportunity to lose my. My traumatic pain from the past. What a gift that was. And then second, it gave me this clear understanding through the eyes of a scientist, the difference between these different parts of our brain and how they function. And that is the only way we would ever get to this specific information of whole brain living. And, you know, I was the right girl in the right place, with the right education, and I guess I had time on My hands to burn because it took a while, But you really.

Were like, what a perfect way for you to really see the anatomy in action. Like, it's so incredible.

And I'm good with that. I was focusing on how does our brain create our perception of reality. And it's like the universe said, we're going to teach you up close and personal and then go share. Sure did.

Yep. And now you are. So you do have a freemium that you are giving out to everybody. So I'm going to let everyone know you can get that at. We'll put it@jjvirgin.com Jill. And what that is is your 90 second reset. So you have a 90 second reset where you become anxiety free. Want to tell us real quick about that?

Yeah. So as we're looking at, every ability we have is based on cells and circuitry. From the moment we think a thought, that's thinking circuit. It stimulates the emotional circuit of anxiety or anger or fear or love or whatever emotion where it's triggering. And then that circuit stimulates a physiological response at the level of the brain. And so depending on which emotion is stimulated, something is dumped into our bloodstream and it flushes out of our bloodstream. So from the moment we think the thought until our blood is completely clear takes less than 90 seconds. Now you're going to say, jill, I can stay angry for a whole lot longer than 90 seconds. And it's like, but that's because you're rethinking the thought that's re stimulating the emotional circuit and re stimulating the physiological response. So that's the stress circuitry of running that loop over and over and over again.

Awesome. You'll be able to get that@jjvirgin.com Jill and I thank you so much for your time today. I'm like, beyond. This has been beyond thrilling to spend this time with you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And once again, I do want to say thank you, jj, for writing the warrior mom, because you were the warrior mom that my mother was. And it's women like you who really help heal the rest of us. So thank you for everything.

Aw. Thank you. Could be warrior mom and for a lot of warrior dads out there too. But I'll tell you, when you When I thought of that title, I knew every single person would go, I got that title. I get it.

So perfect.

Thank you. I appreciate it. All right, well, I hope you fell as in Love with Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor as I have. Oh, my gosh. Just what an amazing story. And gift and I am super excited to start incorporating Christmas her work, especially in my new meditation practices and getting my all my four talking to each other. I just want to remind you that you can go to jjvirgin.com Jill and grab her 90 second reset and I will see you next time.

Foreigners this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.