Building Mental Grit and Physical Power After 40 with Gabby Reece and JJ Virgin

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I'm JJ Virgin, PhD dropout.

Sorry, mom turned four time New York Times Bestsel.

Yes, I'm a Certified Nutrition Specialist, Fitness hall of Famer and I speak at health conferences and trainings around the globe. But I'm driven by my insatiable curiosity and love of science to keep asking.

Questions, digging for answers and sharing the information I uncover with as many people as I can. And that's why I created the well Beyond 40 podcast to synthesize and simplify the science of health into actionable strategies.

To help you thrive. In each episode, we'll talk about what's.

Working in the world of wellness, from.

Personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to healthy aging and prescriptive fitness.

Join me on the journey to better health so you can love how you look and feel right now and have the energy to play full out at 100.

When you think of professional athletes, what usually comes to mind? Someone incredibly fit, always training, totally focused on their sport, right? Well, our guest today checks all those boxes, but she's also done something pretty amazing. She's taken everything she learned as a pro athlete and used it to make a big impact in health and wellness, literally redefining what it means to be a powerhouse both on and off the court. Volleyball legend Gabby Reese has been breaking barriers and redefining success for decades. From gracing magazine covers as one of the five most beautiful women in the world to winning Olympic gold on the volleyball court, Gabby has always defied expectations, but her latest impressive feat is seamlessly transitioning from sports icon to wellness guru, bestselling author and inspirational leader. Today, we're diving deep into the world of holistic health and longevity with someone who's not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. We'll explore how Gabby has maintained her incredible physique and vitality well into her 50s and the lessons she's learned along the way. We're going to explore her approach to mental resilience, work, life, balance and the art of aging powerfully in a youth obsessed world. From her innovative XPT training method to her insights on nutrition and recovery, Gabby will share the strategies that have kept her at the top of her game for decades. Gabby Reese brings a wealth of experience to our conversation today. As a New York Times bestselling author, podcast host, and co founder of Laird Superfood, she's living proof that the discipline and drive of an elite athlete can translate into success across diverse fields from wellness entrepreneurship to inspirational leadership. Whether you're an athlete looking to extend your career, a busy professional trying to balance health and success, or simply someone who wants to age powerfully, this episode is packed with insights you can start applying to your life today. So are you ready to learn how to thrive well beyond 40 from someone who's mastered the art? Let's dive into this game changing conversation with the phenomenal Gabby Reese.

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First order 1,800 contacts. Gabby Reese, welcome to well Beyond 40.

Oh, thank you for having me.

Oh, my pleasure. I have been following you for so long, and you were kind of the one that gave me permission and normalcy. Because back in the day, I mean, remember the 80s, and it was the era of like, skinny models, and I've always been athletic. And I remember looking at you going, oh, my gosh, here's a gal who's a model, athletic, like, everything.

So I would love you to talk.

About that because I know there was a time in there where you were doing both of those and they seem kind of 180 degrees, not so much anymore. But back then, right. You know, what made you decide? Because you kind of shifted out of modeling and went all for volleyball, right?

Yeah. I was playing ball in college on a scholarship, and then I had gotten the offer to model prior to that. So what I did was I kind of pursued it after my freshman year. And because it went well enough that it made sense to actually give up my scholarship and pay to play, I kind of did that dual those two things side by side for a few years because it made sense. I always say, no job do they pay you the way they do in fashion? And you don't need a real qualification, not really. Try to be on time, be cooperative, be able to get on airplanes kind of thing. And so I did that until then when I sort of fell into playing professional sports. I could, I could take all of that and sort of make a living in that pocket all by itself. But I certainly looked at it as a. As a big opportunity. But, yeah, it was interesting. It was like, how do I stay big enough and strong enough to play and not get, you know, eat my lunch from my opponents? But somehow. And I was already so, you know, I'm six three. I was already so much bigger. Be able to fit in the stuff. The clothes.

Yeah, the stuff. I, you know, I was telling you offline, being 6ft tall, I'm like, I should model. Never mind that I can't stand taking pictures and I'm not really photogenic. I hadn't thought it through. And going to a modeling agency and having them tell me I needed to weigh 120, which would have been a 30 pound weight loss. And, you know, tried. I lost 10 pounds and looked anorexic. And I went, this is not going to work. I can't work out and do this. And then I was helping modeling agencies in South Beach, Miami with their models, helping them lose weight. And I remember, like, they basically were on like cocaine and lettuce diets and their exercise was cardio and Pilates. They were deathly afraid of putting any muscle on. So I credit you for getting out there and showing women that you can be strong, sleek, you know, all of that. And you had a great quote. I was just looking in your Instagram while we were trying to figure out this tech thing about how sports provides girls with the opportunity to. Let me not kill this. Sports provides girls with an opportunity to develop a better relationship with their bodies. And you're a girl mom.

Yeah, I am. I have three daughters. And it's just funny too, just talking about shapes, you know, I have one daughter who's physically just a bigger person. Very, very powerful. She's not quite as tall as my other daughter, who. I have a daughter, for example, she's over 6ft tall and she's genuinely. She eats, she moves around, she's a size zero. Like, she's just one of those people and, you know, light boned. She has a size 8 foot. I have a size 12 foot. My other daughter has a size 11 foot. So what you start to learn, and I think I learned it in sports and I learned it in fashion, is like, we are who we are and we come into this world a certain way with, you know, the world makes all the definitions like, oh, this is good, this is bad, this is pretty, this is, you know, so it's a difficult thing to fit into. So the thing that was really easy for me to do because I was 63 is I didn't really have a chance to fit in. So I kind of just skipped all that and thought, well, I'll try to navigate and do the things that I find appealing, the things that I'm drawn to. And if I do that within that I think I will be successful. Meaning at least I'm doing what I want to do and things that reflect who I am genuinely, because you just realize we're all different. I would go to fashion and I did work with girls that were 6ft tall and a genuine 125 pounds because that's the way they were built. I was not one of them.

No, I've seen them. I remember standing next to Christie Brinkley and going, she is like my height and half of me. Yeah, like just a tiny. It's like someone just took a human and stretched them. Yeah, not me, man. Football player shoulders.

Don't put shoulder pads on me.

And it's the same with fashion. I would go, or it's a volleyball. You'd Go there and there'd be girls who I could lift all day long in the gym and certain things. I was never going to be as developed as muscular or as dynamic explosive as somebody who. That was part of their genetics. So I think learning to celebrate that in others and also a level of acceptance, but also kind of a refocus on, well, who am I? What am I good at? What can I contribute? And just kind of let it ride after that.

Yeah. So you went. You did professional volleyball. How long did you do that for?

Off and on for close to 10 years. And I had knee stuff. And quite frankly, what was hard about volleyball was it's a very small platform, and so to dedicate yourself to it, because what you have to do to be in a sport, it got increasingly more difficult, especially as I got older, where I realized, okay, I'm going to do this for how long? And if there's other things I'm going to want to do, that always takes time as well. So I did it for about 10 years, and it was really fantastic. But I always also have my mind that I understood the limitations of being in that sport. I always say, if I somehow could have been a tennis player and been good at tennis, you know, that had a little bit less of. A lot less of a ceiling to kind of dedicate yourself your sort of. How long can you go for?

How long?

What's the average kind of age for a professional volleyball player?

You know, quite frankly, that's the beautiful thing about beach volleyball in particular is, you know, you can be. It can really start to come together for you in your late 20s and even, you know, well into your 30s, because the sand is forgiving on your joints in a certain way. And so then you get all this time and experience, and you learn how to train well, you know, how to prepare for, how to eat, how to move, how to get ready for, how to travel. You know, how to stay healthy and productive when you're traveling and on the road. So you get all those systems in place, and that can all really work in your favor. So in that way, it's kind to you.

That makes sense. Boy, is it hard.

Oh, yeah. Nothing like trying to move around in the sand.

Wow. So I'd love to dig into, kind of look at what people would want to know most on our show. And I think in a lot of ways, we've got a lot of health voyeurs who'd love to know you had all that time you talked about the training, the diet, what did you bring into how you are now. And what is this because you're in your 50s, right?

Yeah, I'm 54.

You're a spring chicken compared to me at 61 here. What does your training program look like now? What have you brought forward from it? What did you learn from those years of being a professional athlete that you brought into your program?

Well, first, what I brought was momentum and discipline. Right. You know, this consistency is sort of a dominant trait over deathly long and deathly hard. Even though those things especially maybe the hard, has to be a part of the training. Regardless of how old we are, if we're going to continue to make progress or make gains, hard has to be a factor, but kind of intelligently so. It's not beat up and immobile. So what I think what I brought into or carried into is this momentum, but also living. My husband is also an athlete, and so what he does is. Has a creativity that I didn't have. I was sort of like times and tasks and very linear. Right. Think about it, points and all that. So, for example, opening up my mind to how can I train hard, but in a way that I could do it forever. It was so sports specific. When I was playing volleyball, how can I jump higher and be faster and get to the ball better? Where when I left the sport, it really became a bigger conversation of how can I be more balanced, how can I do this forever? How can I train? Also kind of not just the physical, but the organism itself. So how do I respond better to all things in my life? And so I changed and added that to my training. So, for example, we do pool training, underwater training. I can be highly ballistic. I can do hundreds of jumps, but yet I'm not crushing my joints. Let's say I still do a lot of land training, but then how do I have enough of that hard? A little bit of jumping, certainly resistance training and time under tension, but not to the point where I'm kind of really beating myself up. So what I brought with me, besides discipline, consistency, scheduling, is the mentality of I have a relationship with discomfort that I can bring into my. Actually all aspects of my life.

Right. Boy, when you can do a hard thing at the gym, you can do hard things.

Yeah. Because it's never fun. Right. And it's this thing where you just. My husband does it even better than I do his relationship with discomfort. I still try to, you know, slightly, or I'm a person. Like, if we go on a bike ride, I will say how long or how far and he just like goes, you know, so his relationship with discomfort, and that's the thing I've learned, is to embrace it. It's like hard times or hard feelings, whatever it is. Just it's better to get a relationship with it and to understand it and not try to push it off, because there really is no pushing it off. There's things in life that are hard and we need to know how to deal with it.

I just find it such a metaphor. Like, I look at this and I go, you know, and I want to talk to you about your knee. I blew out my knee too. I've got a fake knee as well. Getting another one too.

Oh, okay.

I know, Lucky me. But my whole take on that is when I blew out my knee, I thought, you know, I'm going to do these things because I've got this knee issue so that I can put off having surgery. And I think that the less we do, the less we can do. And the more we do, the more we can do. Right. So when I heard you had this knee injury, which, what happened, was it a volleyball thing?

Yeah, it was just repetitive trauma over and over and quite frankly, bad mechanics. So I probably was jumping incorrectly for 25 years or whatever and, you know, bad mechanics and most athletes, we are doing things unnaturally and usually too much one sided so you, you can get into trouble a lot faster. And so it was just one of those things. So at 46, I got my knee fully replaced.

Yes. So when you had this bad knee, what did you do prior to that? Were you doing things to help keep it strong, to put off that thing? Cause I know there's two ways I see people approach this. I see people go, I can't do that. I have a bad knee.

Oh.

Or I see people go, I have to do that. I have a bad knee. I'm assuming you're number two.

I continued to play volleyball actually that whole time. But what I would do is I'd enroll myself in pt. So when I saw my knee sort of really moving in a direction that was becoming unmanageable for me, I would go and get physical therapy. And so you did everything. You do stem cells, you do, you name it. I've done synvisc and all of that. So you become a good student. That's a great thing about injury is it makes us better students, we learn more. But I would tune it up with pt. So that's why the knee replacement came into play, because it became to a point where I was losing function and I couldn't PT my way out of it. I couldn't figure out a way out of it. And it was becoming where I couldn't do a version of all the things that not only I wanted to do, but I felt like I needed to do for the continuation of kind of my overall, the holistic element of health, which is, if you keep avoiding these patterns, you're really gonna create other problems in your body. And so I got to the place where I was like, that's not probably gonna work.

Yeah. Yeah. Had I had it to do over again, I would have had mine done sooner. Cause kind of messed up some other things trying to put off so common. Mm. And then you do it, and you're like, why didn't I just do this, like, years ago?

Well, we get attached, and it's understandable, right? Like, there are certain injuries that people have that if they actually just got more information and the right person, they could get themselves out of it. Cause it's really there. Like, for me, it's not my knee that is the symptom. It's my tight hips and my other things coupled with the sport that I was in. So there. I do believe there's injuries that people have that have become chronic, that if they really got in the right hands, someone would say, well, you know, that left hip is messing up your right knee, and that other foot is not working and kind of unraveling it that way. I do really believe in that. And I also know people get attached to real body parts, right? Like, well, what if they come up with something even better in two years? It's like, yeah, they might.

Yeah. Well, that was why I put it off for a long time. Because, remember, it used to be they only last 10 years. I'm like, oh, well, I better wait.

I will tell you.

Interestingly enough, my husband, who was a soccer player, just had to have his hip replaced. And he for years had knee problems, but they weren't knee problems. And finally he went to my doctor in LA who was like, it's not a knee problem. It's a hip problem. Because he was playing beach volleyball all the time and always had hamstring issues. And it's like, yeah.

And that's. I think that's usually. Unless we have an incident, a traumatic impact or something at the actual location, I usually think it's. That's the symptom. But what is the real problem and the issue? And that's always the kind of the detective part and hoping, you know, you find the right therapist and the right person.

That's the hardest Part. Yeah, usually. Well, I love the idea because this is where my brain has been really for the last 10 years is like, what do I need to do to be built to last? What do I need to be able to do so I can do the stuff I want to do at 70, 80, 90. So what does your fitness program look like now? Because it sounds like you're on the same path.

Yeah, well, the. So I do a sort of a circuit Monday, Wednesday, Friday. It's kind of an all encompassing. So you've got resistance training, proprioception and balance, working a lot on one leg, cardiovascular. And I do that Monday, Wednesday and Friday, just so there's some impact and kind of really challenging the nervous system where you're fatigued and now you're doing things on one leg. Because I think as we get older especially we try to avoid working not only in uncomfortable planes, but avoid kind of things that require too much balance. So I make sure to force those into my weekly workouts. And then on that Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, if time permits, I do and I put sauna ing with it because our sauna's by our pool. So I'll do sauna and pool training. And so like today I started my morning with a call to Europe. So my morning was getting my training. Usually I do it early, get it over with when you have that energy and your mind's kind of clear. But it's just one of those things. So I had about an hour, 45 minutes to train and get it done. So I went to the pool and I programmed something that was pretty hard, pretty constant. So by the time I'm done, I've.

Done.

More than 150 jumps. I've worked in a hypoxic envelope coupling those two and I've done two rounds of sauna. So that's a big win. And the pool is really a gift for that. Built to last. Because also I'm in pressure. So lymphatic circulation. Like there's so many things that are positive about the pool. You're outside, you're in water, it's like kind of all these things, boxes that you're checking at once, even the rinsing your brain. So for example, our pool's about 10 or 11ft. When you jump and you have the pressure of the water kind of on the back of your lower head and neck, you will help push the fluid through your brain. So what happens when we sleep and things like that? So there's just a lot of things to it that go into this formula of what you're talking about, about Built to Last.

I've never heard that before. That's really interesting.

I have a friend. I can't even say his name, unfortunately, but he is part of. He kind of comes in, is a guest speaker at our xpt and he is involved in neuroscience, but he's also a military guy. And he really got into the pool training deep and started sharing with Laird and I some of the other benefits. And, you know, the water, I can't say it enough about the relationship and the lesson that you can learn from water because it's an objective teacher. But if your thoughts aren't right, the width of your eyeballs, the tension of your tongue, even how hard you hold the weight, you burn oxygen. And the water lets you know right away without any opinion. So when people talk about meditation, I don't necessarily want to sit and meditate. I appreciate doing breathing practices and things like that. But what the water does for me is its immediate feedback on when people say, oh, just notice your thoughts. So the water really trains you. You cannot do the task. You can't get there and back three times without a breath if you don't just notice your thoughts and feelings. So that has also been a really great adjunct to the training where it's made me more aware of all of the thoughts, all of the responses, because the water certainly lets you know this water training.

I'm thinking back when I lived in LA and I was working as a personal trainer. I went and took a water training class, and this woman destroyed us.

Destroyed us.

It was like. Cause we all kind of were like, oh, this is going to be like, stupid little water training class. Right? And she was training Olympic athletes in the pool. So she killed. I think her name was Linda. Huey.

Okay.

Anyway, and so I used it as, like, the way to rehab my knee because I was like, oh, I can do jumps. I can plyometric in the pool. But when you're talking about pool training, I saw some of the stuff you guys were doing where you have dumbbells and you're underwater. What are you doing in the pool? Because I've never seen this before.

Yeah, this was something. Listen, Laird always says there's no new ideas. There's just sort of new applications of old ideas. So whether it's Hawaiians carrying stones or military, you know, using water to kind of test the metal, the emotional metal of people, which also creates a lot of aqua trauma for a lot of these guys. But what it is is there's times that we're way deep, you know, 10, 11, 12ft and jumping and not getting a breath. But actually, the more powerful component is that you're doing these reps and you are getting a breath every time you come up. So you have to be ballistic at the bottom. And you're really navigating your breath. So the only thing that happens when you pop out between each rep is inhale, because you don't have time to exhale. Inhale. You're understanding your relationship with CO2 because you can do long swims with your dumbbells. So it makes you also. So for a guy like Laird, who wants to be better and more efficient in the water, he's moving through the water in a much more efficient way. But you're also learning how to work harder with less air. You're sort of expanding your lung capacity. And then you're also touching the curtain. Oh, I'm uncomfortable. Oh, I feel pressure. On this primal level, you have no air, so what you have to do is manage that. And so, again, if we talk about real training, for me, the only thing that interests me at this point in my life is how am I going to show up, like, as a spirit Better. Yeah. People go, I lift this, I do that. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the minute I put a little pressure on you in your life and you freak out. So what I also want to do is figure out, how do I get this pressure and try to get calmer. And the water lets you do that. So there's a lot of ways that you're being ballistic, but you're also doing a ton of cardio, if you choose. So once you're moving kind of horizontally, you're in cardio, and once you're moving vertically, you're sort of in this ballistic training. So I get NBA guys, NFL guys, rehab for injuries, things like that.

Wow. And is this something someone listening? Is there a way they could do this type of workout? Like, do you have them online or is it.

You know, we don't have them online. Cause if they're taught correctly, they're great. If they're not, you know, you have to be serious about this because there is air. No air.

Right.

And the more capable people are, the actually more dangerous they are. Like military guys that can go to blackout or deep, you know, free divers and such. So we do events where we do teach people this, and we're slowly starting to do this. But it's something that you really, you know, even after 15 years of doing it, it's always. It's sort of like being almost like in the military, you always are doing the extras to make sure you're being safe and being diligent. Because, you know, it's easy for people to think, oh, yeah, yeah, I have it. It's like, okay, let's stay responsible.

Yeah, it's interesting. I've never heard, like, I think back to what we were taught and we never went underwater. Everything was, you know, jumping from here up I go. It's an entirely different situation to be 10ft.

I know, and it's really fantastic. And if I have a 6 foot, 8, 7 foot basketball player who needs to stay tuned up for his season, but needs to try to take it easy on his joints. Cause he weighs 250 pounds. Well, here's a way to do it.

Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. Now, you talked about doing it and doing the sauna two times. Are you doing you putting the sauna sessions in between it? How are you incorporating that?

Yeah, I do 15 minute. Our sauna is pretty hot. It's like a 220. So what I might do. Yeah, I know it's unnecessary. If you go to 200, you're fine. Because also our sauna's that hot. Because a lot of times Laird would couple it with ice. So it's a way to really get it done quick in a compressed period of time. Because 15 minutes, you're like, let's go, you know. So what I do is I'll typically start in the sauna. So now I'm warmed up, the tissue's warm, I get in the pool. If the pool's at all cold, I feel good.

How long are you in the 2:20 sauna for? To start?

Probably about 15 minutes.

Wow.

Yeah. And then if you like, if people do it with ice, then you're like, oh, it's so great. It's 220. So I start there and then I'll do probably 45 minutes of work and then pop back in the sauna and then finish with a little bit more work. And there are days where I will add ice, but typically during the week, it's hard for me to get that all in. So that usually ends up getting pushed off to like a Sunday where we say, okay, today is a recovery day and we're just gonna go back and forth between. Between the heat and ice and do that.

Yeah, we have two saunas and one heats up to 180, like immediately, and then we have a cold plunge. But I'm like thinking, okay, I do 180 to like 50 degrees. That's about it.

You know what I want to also, I feel like more and more as we go through life, everybody has all these metrics and measurements and all these things, right? And what I just, like, wanna say, coupled with all this stuff I'm saying that I do, is, first of all, part of this is my job. You know, Like, I meant to. If I'm gonna share this with someone else or teach it, I kind of. I need to do it right, and I need to understand it. And so I just wanna remind people that you don't have to do all this to be built, to do this forever. And so, really, for me, it's about finding the things that are kind to your body, but that push your body in a smart way. And so whatever that looks like for people. Because sometimes I listen to other people, sometimes sharing, like, well, this is what I do. And it's like, yeah, that's cool for you. Who the hell has that kind of time? I have also made this a priority. For 35 years, this has been something that both Laird and I have said, hey, this is a priority for us. But I just want to encourage people that it's like, hey, whatever works for you. Like, get a rebound or, like, you know, whatever it is, just find those things.

Well, I keep wanting to do this post on Instagram of, like, the influencer morning and then the real influencer morning, you know? Cause it's like BS that people are actually doing all the stuff that they say they're doing.

And that's what I want to mean. We've been doing this a very long time. And so my whole mission is simplification. So what I have heard over and over is why people aren't successful. We can't add more things for them to do. We have to go, okay, let's take away the things that are keeping you from reaching your goals. What are those things and what really does have to happen? And I think that that seems to be a more important conversation than everybody. Like, okay, this, that supplement, this stretch, that band, this cream. And that's great if you remember from time to time, but it's probably not realistic.

Well, I also hear, I mean, you know, you're a professional athlete, so what it's going to take to push you and make it hard for you is very different from someone who maybe most of their life walked and maybe went to a couple Pilates classes.

Different places, you know, and different medicine, right? Like, I'm looking. I'm looking for that medicine, right? I'm looking for that because that's been the language that feels comfortable and works for me. But it's not the only way.

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Right. But I do think the important takeaway, you said a couple really key things here. The one that's simplifying, I think in simplification it is, what are those most important things? What are the needle movers? What are the big rocks? Because I see so much majoring in the minors out there, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're all concerned about the, whatever the lux of your red light is and you're not even moving 8,000 steps a day. Like could we get real here onto what is important? So you know what I loved is that you talked about some key things that I think are so important for being built to last. Resistance training, building muscle, putting in that power, the jumping, because that's the big thing, we lose power and then the proprioception and balance. And you said something else there. You said you do your balance when you're tired and I'd love you just to to talk about that a little bit more because that's so important.

Yeah, I think as we get fatigued we lose coordination. So I think it's also really important to add that into training of I'm not recovered now. I'm going to put myself in a safe compromise position. I'm not going to be deathly fatigued and do max squatting. I'm talking about doing some one legged deadlifts with a 30 or 35 pounds things that my structure isn't gonna get tormented, but focusing on form and really working the body when you're tired because that's closer to when somebody has a mishap in real life at the end of their day, they're distracted, they're tired, they're going down the stairs or they step off a curve. It's like, you know, those are the things that, it's like, hey, can we be ready for all of those things?

Yes. I think that's such a key thing because that is, I like to say we don't train to get better at training, we're training to get better at life. And what's gonna happen in life, we're gonna be scrolling on our phone and miss a step. I say that because I've done it twice, Broke a finger, sprained an ankle. I'm like, geez, how many times we have to learn this dumb lesson? All right, so that's the training side. What I didn't hear you talking about in there, and I think this is important too, is you focused on power, strength, you know, hypertrophy, balance, proprioception, all of these things and which are going to help our VO2 max, our power strength, hypertrophy, where I think most people are like kind of looking in the wrong direction.

Well, they're cardio heads, right?

Yep.

Yeah. You're not going to spin it off and walk it off and run it off. And I think people are afraid of muscle, but it's like if you want to have your best friend, I mean, look at you. It's like muscle is. And especially for an aging female man, it is like learn to love it and hope that you can build some because it's just, you know, in every data point it's a win. And so, you know, for, for let's say a householder person who isn't coming from sport, who isn't gonna compete in a CrossFit Games, it's like you still wanna have it and I think being obviously mindful of the weight around your waist. But the thing is cardio, people don't realize it's. You'd be better off walking long distances and banging iron than just killing yourself on a cardio machine. Now having said that, I will do, for example, like let's say I'll do 30 minutes of cardio on a bike. You know, kind of every minute and a half or two minutes, I might do a 20 or 30 second sprint. So that's the way I try to incorporate cardio, is to try not to, you know, get run away from the sprinting component. And I'll do that if I go to the beach, I'll walk. Garbage can to garbage can sprint. Garbage can to garbage can walk sprint. So I think it's getting creative in there too, to add that a little bit of that explosiveness.

Yeah, I love that. That's, that's exactly the way I like to do things. I'm glad you brought up the bulk because I still, it is amazing to me that you still hear, I do not want to get muscles, I just want to get toned and I just want to tear my hair out. I don't even know what toned is.

Well, and the problem is when we're young, it's like we're there, and then we fall off a cliff. And then people don't have the skill set to sort of work their way to get their physique in the place that they're hoping they didn't develop the skill. And then they think, oh, if I just blast myself in cardio, I'll get there. And unfortunately, that's not the case. And whether it's hormonally or cortisol or what have you, but the other part of that is, then they have a kid or another kid. And I think for me, it's just about encouraging people to not be afraid. Afraid to be educated enough about dumbbells and weights that they really are a tool for you to help you.

Yeah. And if you are one of those people, having done this 40 years, I've yet to see a woman get big lifting weights. I see them get big not lifting weights, you know, sitting on the couch. But I've never seen it. I'm like, I've just never seen it. And I'm sure that if you were one of those amazing women who somehow started to really bulk up lifting weights, you could just stop.

Yeah. And I mean, granted, listen, some people, it's like myself and one of my daughters, it's like, I have always had a bigger thigh and glute area, and that's kind of the way it is. And, you know, other women don't develop that way. And then you'll see certain women, their shoulders will get kind of more filled out. But I don't think. I think we play games with ourselves that it's really so drastically different than when we don't lift. No, it's just probably a harder, more defined version of what's already sitting there.

Yeah. I could get, like. Well, now, if you have those defined glutes, you are very in style.

Yeah.

Like, I would kill. So our buddy Kerry Sissen, I was like, okay, what the heck have you been doing? We're all out. Like, what have you been doing? She's like, some crazy amount of squatting and hip thrusts. I'm like, all right. To get that. I'm like, it's not easy. Well, let's shift gears over. As we talked through exercise, I love your whole approach on it. What's your approach on the diet side of things?

I keep that really simple because I feel like people get very overwhelmed. And I always say plants and animals are the highest source that I can get my hands on. I definitely make sure. And it's not conscious. It's become just part of the way I do it to have enough healthy fat. So that seems to really keep me from wanting to overeat. So I'm not a big snacker. And again, I used to focus more on like, what's my protein. Now I try to focus. That's what I crave. That's whatever for whatever way I'm built. I'm actually almost also anemic. It's just the way it's been my whole life. I really gravitate towards protein. But what I try to do is build the meal around the vegetables and the fiber and then kind of round it off with a high quality protein. But it's not rocket science. And I do cook at home more than I eat out because I just know what's happening. But also I don't put a lot of stress around it because it's not worth it. So when I'm traveling, I'll do my best. And there are days where I'm like, it will serve me better not to eat than to eat what's available. And I will do that as well. So in that way, that might be the gnarliest thing I do, which is like, yeah, it's just better not to eat.

It's. I have to carry. I carry stuff with me because like I can't. I've never been able to fast.

Well, we're not supposed to really. If you listen to like Stacy Sims or even Gabrielle Lyon, most performing women perform better fed, they don't perform better fasted. I would say with fasting there's a. Like if you weren't trying to grab the reins, like let's say you were loosey goosey in your food or you are trying to do some sort of weight management, that might be an interesting way to kick your kickstart into kind of a really disciplined way. Because then you're so happy to have vegetables and non processed foods because you're like, I'm so hungry. Yay food. But generally I try to eat. I don't really eat a big breakfast. I have coffee with a bunch of fat in it. I train, I have lunch and then I have dinner. I probably eat a lot less than people would think. I used to eat a lot more when I played ball cause I was burning so many calories. But I think it's the snacking, I think it's the stress and I think it's trying to back my dinner as far away from when I go to bed as possible. Usually things stay in check if I kind of manage that stuff.

Yeah, I love the simple Animals and plants. Highest quality you can find. It is that simple. And on the recovery side, you talked about sauna and cold. How cold is you guys? Do you guys do your cold thing?

Well, we have an ice tub, so it's, you know, 32. 32. Oh, boy. We also have a blue cube which circulates and that's a little warmer. Technically it's probably more like 35 or 6, but it circulates. So in that way it's harder because the ice is still and the ice is full of air. So people don't realize when you sit in an ice tub, after about 30 seconds, you actually create a warm insulation around yourself. And when you go into like a blue cube where it's moving around, that's harder because it's like wind chill in a different way.

Yeah, I've gotten to the point now, 50 degrees. And I remember hearing I had Stacy, Stacy on. I know. I'm like, I had Stacey on the show and she's like, women should do 50. I'm like, I love you. 50 to me is totally manageable. I can get in there, you know.

Well, you're a lean bugger. You don't have a lot of fat on you. So that cold probably kicks your ass. And I.

A whole year I have been a. This is my body type and what's very interesting, and it took me until, what, in my 50s to go, this is my body type and finally get over it.

But what's to get over?

Well, because, you know, it was. I have no curves. I'm very like, literally my hips and waist are about the same size. I can put. Bring something, pull something all the way down. It's easier to put it up, pull it up over my hips than it is to pull over my shoulders. And I met my birth mom in my twenties and I remember getting off a plane and looking at her exact same body type.

Like, just do any of your. Are any of your kids built like you?

So my ex husband is super lean. Like when I met him, he was 5% body fat. Tennis guy, tennis pro. And so my one son's a little bit more of a brick house, like, and then one's really tall. He's 6 2, 63 and super lanky. But both of them are lean. Ripped.

Great. Thanks, mom and dad.

Yes, yes. And I met my birth parents and they're like tall, you know, tall, lean. But my birth mom was very muscular.

Yeah, I think it's interesting and that I think the most important thing is when we, whoever we are male or Female. Sort of really embrace how we're going to go through the world. It makes it a lot easier. And it's so fascinating to me how women, we. As women, we're always looking over there. And, you know, I try to talk to my daughters about that a lot, which is, you've got to appreciate over there. And if. But we're not going to. You don't have to fit into that. And it is such an interesting. Must be a biological impulse to try to, you know, figure out how to be more like someone. How someone else has. Or. I don't have this, but I have that. And it's a. It's an interesting target to chase.

Yeah. It's like trying to chase that other hair color, the other hairstyle, the other body type, the other, like, you know, I mean, it literally took me to my 50s to go, oh, this is my. My body type. I think I'll just really, like, lean into it, you know?

Yeah. Because I think being tortured our whole lives seems unproductive.

Yeah. I just. Something happened at 50 where I went, okay, I don't care anymore. I was like, how come that couldn't have switched off at, like, 20 or 30?

Yeah. Well, I heard a great. Robert Waldinger. He's the head of the Harvard study. He's the fourth director of that study. And we were talking about this, like, you get all the information they have, all the books in your. You know, and you can read in your twenties every book that'll give you kind of the secret to happiness. I put that in quotes. Right. Or the secret of. Or essence of things in life that seem to be pretty important. I go, why can't we just read the books and do it? You know? And he goes, why have we continued? Every generation goes through the same cycle. And he goes, oh, Gabby, that's how we gain wisdom.

Hmm.

And I think that's why we all have to go through. Hey, the fire's hot. Is it? Is it really? I'm going to put my finger in the flame. Okay. And I just think that's the beautiful thing of life is we don't get to know until we get to know for ourselves.

And what they all say is, like. You know how they always say it's like youth is wasted on the youth or whatever. However they say, I get it now, I get it. Darn it.

But you need that horsepower to endure all those life lessons.

God, you know, it's just.

It's like the great beautiful balance and justice and harmony of nature. It's like, hey, you might be, your step might be a little slower, but you won't need to take as many or, you know, it's all those great things. And so I just have learned to really enjoy some of the real solid truths of how life works.

How is it, how old are your kids now?

I have a senior in high school, a 20 year old and a 29 year old.

Oh yeah, it must be interesting. I always thought of myself as a boy mom and said, I'll just keep having more boys because, you know, I was a teenage girl and I went, I don't want one of those.

Yeah, I thought I was only gonna have boys, but that wasn't my, that wasn't the plan.

It must be interesting raising girls and especially with all of this stuff and knowing that some of the stuff that you now know, they're not going to know for years. They're just going to have to go through the angst and pain of it.

I have only one who, the youngest who's still in that. My middle daughter and my older daughter, they got to it pretty quick. And my youngest I think actually, and I always say she's kind of the one who's most impacted by technology and social media. So her arc on her curve might be a little longer and maybe in some ways a little more painful. And she's a stunning kid, but.

She'S.

Gonna have to have some different lessons. And I always say the thing you can do is do a lot of listening. Cause it's really great if they're sharing with you. So when they share with you, it's like you can't go, why would you think that? Or why would you. It's like, oh, okay, you know, like, where does that feeling come from? And things like that. And then so listening and also just being the best example that you can because they are smart. And you remember being a teenage girl, people are smart, young people are smart and girls are wicked smart. So if you can hold your line and stay consistent, I think they find it quicker. Instead of you trying to teach them.

Or tell them now where's Your, is your 29 year old? Like where does she live?

She lives in Oregon and she has a real job. She reads LiDAR and LiDAR. Yeah, it's like radar, but kind of the next. And so she was, she's my stepdaughter, but she's my daughter. She was four months old when I met my husband. And she has also a great mother, but I can remember she was the first one. Her mother's quite athletic as well, and she said when she was about 15, very smart kid. She goes, I want to use my brain for my job. I go, oh, yeah, please. Absolutely. So it's always interesting when your kids kind of. And my youngest daughter also went the academic route. My middle's the only one who's doing sports. And for them to have to tell us, hey, I'm not doing that. And it's like, hey, if you know how to take care of yourself and be healthy, good enough. You don't have to do a sport as you're living. But it was funny how that was really our language of, this is the thing that's really gonna help you. It's like, well, no, that's the thing that helped us.

Yeah. I've got one who's an academic, too. I was like, huh? Like, professor level academy.

Yeah, I know. It took me a minute. I have a kid, my youngest daughter gets straight A's in school, and I'm like, oh, that's good. But I always joke with my friends. I go, I'd be more like. More like interested or a long time ago, like, oh, I scored 30 points. Oh, okay. It's been the lesson for me as a parent, which is to embrace their path, their way, and the way it worked for me. It's their life.

Yeah. It is the biggest thing as a parent. Like, I had these dreams when they were little of what I thought would be amazing because it's what I loved. And then I saw that they wanted things entirely different. And it took a bit to go, oh, stop. This is what they love. Like, you know, literally, I have a son getting a PhD in math who's then going to be a math professor. I was like, okay, this is. He does not want to go to the college with the football team and do all the things. The things that you think are so important, like, could care less. So it is interesting. Now, what I know you guys have a couple businesses together. First of all, how is that? Because my husband and I just started working together. So how is it working together? And what all do you do do together?

Well, it's a. It's. You know, I feel fortunate. It's not always easy, but it's pretty good. I've been with Laird almost 29 years, and I think out of necessity, we have very different skill sets, but our values are similar and kind of coming from weird sports, volleyball and surfing. We've started other businesses that failed. And then we have now Laird Superfood, which is a food business, which is doing very well. And we Have XPT training. And so we respect each other. We have very different roles. It's almost like how we are as a couple, where it's like, you kind of do that. I'll do this because it's easier for each of us, and I'll trust you, and I'll stay in my lane, and you can trust me. And I just have to be really mindful because I am kind of the date and schedule keeper that I don't ever make Laird feel like either I'm telling him what to do, or I'm wasting his time or I'm bossing him around. So one thing we really keep alive in our dynamic is the relationship. And kind of we're not brothers and sisters. And, like, we keep the dynamic between us, the romantic dynamic alive. We talk to each other in a way that would be how kind of lovers would talk to each other, not business partners. And then we create a space separately. So if we're sitting at the counter and we gotta kinda go over stuff, then that's a different tone. But we just don't let it bleed into every aspect. Because I think that's maybe for certain couples would be the problem.

I think for any couple, that would be the problem.

Yeah. And I credit Laird for that, because Laird said to me early on in our relationship, his mother unfortunately passed away about a year and a half or two years after we were together. But one time, I might have come across firm, busy. You know, I am bossy, right? I just am a bossy person. I'm not here telling people what to do, but I'm sort of like, this is what's happening. And so I remember he said to me once, like, I had a mother, and she died, and I was in my 20s when he said that me said that to me. And I thought, oh, you know what? That's really important, because I don't want to be right. I do want to express that side of myself with him, which is the romantic and the partnership and the love and passion. And maybe if it got left up to me, I would have neutralized us. And then all of a sudden, I would have been like, that joke was inappropriate at that dinner we were at. And da, da, da. And with Laird, it's so clear. I never tell Laird. I don't tell Laird what to do. I don't talk nicer to any person than I do to Laird. And so that really made me a better person. And I think that that was the secret is how do we find a person that brings out the best sides of ourselves that we want to live in. It's not that we're different. It's like we get this opportunity to be in this other side. And so, by nature, I'm going to take charge. I'm going to do all this stuff. Well, here I have a partner who's like, yeah, yeah. And on the things that are big and important, he's in charge. He is in total, in control. So I have a lot of trust in him, which then I surrender. So it's an interesting dance. So I really credit him with being somebody who subtly was like, yeah, no, we're not doing that. And that really helped me.

Well, but you also heard it.

Yes. And I enjoy, like, being in my life and being kind of alpha and getting into work and business and coaching and all these things, but I really enjoy being my daughter's mother and being that person for them. And I do really enjoy being his partner. And in this instant, I'm the feminine energy, and I enjoy it because that's the only place I get to do that. And I learn more about myself. And I. You know, I always say in that entanglement is where we really learn who we are. And you can hide. I can hide what I'm scared about in life behind my go, get it done by achieve, push versus actually going into the vulnerability.

Oh, yeah. The easiest thing to do is go into alpha female, get it done. I'm working, I'm busy, and I've learned.

And if I'm honest with myself, I'm like, oh, you're hiding in that. So it's been like a really great classroom, and I feel lucky to have a partner that I, you know, we have a dynamic that can happen.

You are really. I love everything that you've said and how you just continue to evolve, grow, push yourself, whether it's sports or personal relationship, being willing to go into the uncomfortable and Right. To grow and to be a better person. It's super cool.

Yeah. Because, you know, one thing I've learned is we get brought here, and it's all of a sudden like, oh, you're the. You play basketball, or, oh, you're the smart one, and, oh, you're the funny one. And just all this stuff, and we spend all this time in these labels. Oh, you're the CEO. You're da, da, da. And what I realized is, and Laird and I talk about this a lot. We are who we are, and then we sort of express ourselves in all these other ways. So, yes, I'm Gabby, and I have played volleyball and I've done business and I've been a wife and all these things. So I think it's most important is how do we get that being, that essence, that spirit before female, before the labels and that other bullshit. How do we get. How are we clear and evolving and curious from that place? Because then we're liberated. Because then all of a sudden people will be like, oh, you're middle aged, you're old. It's like, okay, sure. You know, it's like, I feel like it makes everything else easier.

I love it. I'm gonna link. I wanna link to Laird Superfoods. I was looking around cause it looked like you had some really cool stuff over there. What are a couple of your highlight products over there?

You know, I have to say Laird and I are highly involved with this. And we have some very serious guardrails around. Ingrid ingredients and products. So we don't use natural flavors, obviously, we don't use artificial flavors, but we don't use natural flavors either. So categorically we have an instant line that I love very much. So if people are active or traveling, or let's say outdoorsy, we've got instant lattes, mochas, pumpkin spice lattes. That's a great easy product. All of our creamers are excellent. We put adaptogens in them. You can read all. You know, there's maybe seven ingredients. And so we try to make everything as functional. Like there's something in it, whether it's an adaptogen or turmeric or something like that, but also without sacrificing the experience. So we really appreciate that these rituals that people have, their matcha teas, their coffees, these are sacred to people. So everything, even our coffee bean, it's a Peruvian high altitude, low acidic, is really of the best quality that we can find. So those are my favorites. And our bars, weirdly, even though I don't want people to eat a ton of bars, I want them to eat food.

But they're great emergency food, so you don't get stuck somewhere.

And I don't have weird ingredients in my boat, which is very hard to do. So I'm very excited about those. And we have. We also have some greens and reds. This is how I start my morning. I do a giant glass of water and I put the greens and the reds. The fiber sits in your gut for about 48 hours. No fillers, just a kind of. I always say a first early win. And I really love that. And we have hydrate products. So if you have kids, you just add it to water. It's freeze dried coconut and tastes very good. And that's the other thing is we also try to be conscious on cost because I know you've experienced this being in, I put this in quotes, wellness, but I don't want. Laird and I grew up both very simply and nothing fancy. And I don't feel like health or wellness or high quality products should be an exclusive offering. It should be an inclusive offering. And so that's the other kind of one of our other pillars is like how do we get these best in class ingredients but try our best to make it reasonable.

Oh, I love that. I will put that, that your podcast, your podcast is Ask Gabby, is that right? Oh dear Gabby.

Oh no, I know. Can you imagine? I have no answers. The Gabby. It's just the Gabby Reese show.

That's very funny.

Yeah, no, it's just the Gabby. I heard a great quote Byron Katie said once. Oh, I don't have any answers, but I have a lot of questions and I tend to, I can, I can share patterns that I've seen over, you know, whatever, 35, 40 years that seem to keep showing up. But I don't know, I feel like I'm just here to be an ally and a translator.

Well, I think you've done a really good job with some of this translation, especially today. The things you said in terms of fitness, nutrition, simple, super powerful, effective. And you know the interesting thing I've been like, I'm kind of interested in a weird way, it's like a voyeuristic way watching Brian Johnson, the guy who's spending like 2 million a year hacking his health. Cause what I find the most interesting about the whole thing is that the things that are most effective are exercise, sleep, they're the things that don't cost any money. I'm like, yeah, I could have told you that.

So I love the fact that I interviewed Brian and I even ate the food and the everything and I and people. It's funny, he really, people get fired up about him and I thought, you know, this guy wants to spend his life time, resources and maybe we'll get, we'll learn something about Brazil nuts, I don't know, like whatever, like some compound in there. Have at it. Knock yourself out. I think for me personally there's a lot of restriction in there, but I think it based on his personality and emotionality, it might be also a way to keep himself on a line.

Yeah, that's true. And that's what you have to look at with every single person is what's gonna work well, with who you are, how you live, but you look at it still. Cause I kind of go, God, I sure wouldn't wanna live like that. However you look and go, okay, what's important, don't be snacking. Stop eating before bed. Get good sleep. I'm like, these are all the things. And most of the things don't cost money. And the reality is eating good food is a lot cheaper than it used to be.

Yeah.

You know, like, you can now go get organic at Costco. So I think, too, to your point.

When you eat, like, if I eat meat that's been hunted, let's say Laird's gone hunting, or a friend sends us meat, I eat so much less of it because it is so nutrient dense. So people don't realize, too, if they actually get what their body needs, they will stop eating. And. And I think that when we get attuned to that, it can also be a really. Just a great emotional sort of resource of, like, I don't have to eat a plate or six plates. It's okay. I'll get it in and I'll eat till I'm full and I'll be done. And people don't realize this if they get in that practice, that habit like you talked about. They realize that they've only probably been overeating if it's not emotional because they're not getting the nutrition they need.

I think it's that whole protein leverage hypothesis that the guys from Australia. When I heard that, I'm like, I remember my vegan days. I could never get enough food in. It was like, never. Now I eat a steak and some vegetables. I'm like, I'm done. I'm done. Satisfied. I always say when you're eating protein vegetables, you're satiated and satisfied. You've got both. You're not hungry, but you also don't have cravings. And it's the cravings. I mean, we can be full and still eat garbage. So you gotta hit both of them.

Yeah, that's a good point. Yes.

Yes.

All right.

This has been fantastic. I so appreciate, through all of our tech stuff, behind the scenes of, like, worth the wait. So thank you again. And we'll link to your podcast and your superfoods and the. What was the training thing that you have? I know you have a spoon.

Oh, xpt. Yeah. And we have. Actually, what's cool about XPT is the pool is a little more specialized, but we have an incredible breathing app that myself and Laird and some of our other really talented movement specialists run people through if they need to downregulate or before bed or whatever before a hard workout. So we have all that on an app there. But also, I just want to say, if I could be as lean and muscular as you, that would have been, you know, heaven. So.

Well, I'll take your button thighs. You can have my. My shoulders and arms. How's that? I've always had arms. And the funniest part is, like, I've literally always had these. Get off the plane. My birth mom's got them, too. And I never have worn sleeves because I sweat so much that I'm like.

So if you have those guns, you better bust them out. Let me just tell you that. You know what I mean? Well.

And then, you know, you'll love this. I'm at the gym working out, and I watch it happening. I'm like, it's gonna happen again. A guy's gonna come over, and he's gonna say one of two things, or maybe he'll say both, and he'll go, wow, that's good. He'll want to do a fist bump. Cause he'll go, either he's gonna tell me I'm doing really well for a girl, or he's gonna tell me I'm doing really well for my age. Or maybe he puts them both together, and I'm just looking at him going, you know, he'll come over, you're really strong fora. And I'm like, don't say it. You know, just say you're really strong.

How about you look great?

How about, you know, you're strong? Not for. I'm like, dude, I just lifted more than you. So maybe just you're strong.

Yep. And I think that that's where we learn that, you know, the idea of other people, because they're seeing everything through their filter. So, you know, people make comments to you about that because they feel unsure about themselves. And as women. Women tend to take everything personal. And the great expression of what you think of me is none of my business. Can apply all the time. And even kind of indirectly with compliments, which is like, you could even be like, you're amazing. It's like, okay. Cause we still really have to know how we feel.

Agreed. I know. It's the snarky in me. Always wants to kind of just go, jerk.

I know. Well, I think, you know, again, it's having empathy that. That person, maybe they want to tell you, great job. They don't know how they feel uncomfortable. They say something stupid or they're not sure even about how they feel and they see someone like you and go, holy shit, she's ripped. I'm not ripped.

Anyway, my new answer has always been for this last year, my evolved 60 year old self is thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

I just shut it after that. So that's been a big thing. There you go. All right, well, thank you so much, Gabby.

It's been amazing and again, what a great example you are and that's the most powerful thing we can do. So thank you for that.

Thank you. Be sure to join me next time.

For more tools, tips, tips and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look and feel great and are built to last.

Check me out on Instagram, Facebook and my website, jjvirgin.com and make sure to.

Follow my podcast@subscribetoj.com so you don't miss a single episode. And hey, if you're loving what you.

Hear, don't forget to leave a review. Your reviews make a big difference in helping me reach more incredible women just.

Like you to spread the word about aging powerfully after 40.

Thanks for tuning in and I'll catch.

You on the next episode.

Hey JJ here.

And just a reminder that the well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness and nutritional information that's designed for educational and entertainment purposes only.

You should not rely on this information.

As a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

If you have any concerns or questions.

About your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional.

Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on.

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Foreign.

Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and Reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately. And I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything. You'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and visit our website what Should I read next podcast.com to find out more.