Exploring Fermented Foods with Summer Bock

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Hey, it's JJ Virgin. And welcome to the JJ Virgin Lifestyle show where I talk nutrition, exercise, mindset and lifestyle with some of the coolest people in the world. Plus, I give you tips that you can put into fast action to uplevel your health so you can go out there and live that big life you're meant to live. Now, today's show happened in the pool. So I was sitting in a pool in Cancun, Mexico with this guest yakking away, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to have you on my podcast with this. And it's someone who's been a friend for years, but we've never really talked much about her business. In fact, a couple years ago I was on her podcast when we were doing it by video and we actually did a pantry intervention because her boyfriend had all this crap in the pantry. It was hilarious. So I am excited to share Summer Bach with you today. She is really the queen of fermentation. And you know, that's been something that has been sort of on my New Year's resolution list and I haven't done for a long time. And we talk about it a lot. I talk about how important they are, but I, full disclosure, have not been so great about doing it myself. Kind of my gateway into it has been drinking Kavita drinks, the ones with low sugar, like the regular coconut one or the strawberry acai. But I am committed to getting into this and she's going to talk to all of us today about why it's so important to at least do this once, at least one time, make fermented veggies in your kitchen. Plus, she's got a way for you to do it. Easy peasy. So let me tell you a little bit about Summer before I bring her on. She's a ferment and she's the founder of Guts and Glory. How cute of a name is that? It's an online company dedicated to providing clients with the knowledge and actionable skills to heal their digestive issues naturally. She has based all of this on the premise and what we know to be true, which is good health really does start in the gut. She's a trained herbalist with a background in microbiology and is certified by Columbia University and Integrative Nutrition. She has amazing online programs all around the gut, things like Probiotic Power Cleanse or Gut Rebuilding. And she also does this very cool fermentationist certification program. In fact, I think she's the only person anywhere doing this. And honestly, she makes fermenting things not scary because I sat there and got inspired by her and everything she was talking about. And I'm excited to share her with you because I bet you're going to feel the same way. So, again, today's guest is Summer Bach. All right, so let's do it. Summer Bach, welcome to the show. I am so glad you're here with me today.

This is a great podcast. I'm so excited.

Well, when we sat in the pool. So Summer and I were just off in Cancun sitting in the pool, and you were sharing all this with me, and I'm like, all right, we have to get this out there, because you know my fear of fermented food, so we're gonna dive into that today. And you kind of made me not scared. So I'm excited for you to share this more with the audience and those of us who might be a little bit freaked out by fermented foods, which are so good for your gut. So let's dive into. Let's just dive into what the heck are fermented foods and why do we need them? How about that?

Sure. So fermented foods are foods that have been fermented using bacteria, yeast, or mold, which does sound kind of scary. In order to preserve these foods or in order to make them more digestible, those are, like, historically, those are the two main reasons, and we've been fermenting as human beings for at least 10,000 years.

All right? And so, I mean, when I think of fermented food, I think of wine and chocolate, but that's really not what we're talking about, right?

No, I mean, you know, sadly enough. Yeah, sadly enough. That's the thing. So, you know, we live in a culture where people get really excited and jump on a bandwagon. And so right now, people are hearing more and more about fermented foods. But there's some misconceptions. Not all fermented foods are going to be great for you. The ones that I really focus on are the fermented foods that contain probiotics, the fermented foods that actually help to build what I call the microbial diversity in your gut. And this is really important. The microbial diversity of your gut means that you're going to be leaner, you're going to be less prone to illness. And they have a ton of studies out there that connect your gut health to the risk of food allergies, environmental allergies, anxiety, depression, diabetes, weight gain, obesity, asthma, all the inflammatory bowel diseases, and even smaller digestive disturbances. And then because your gut has, they say between 70 and 90% of your immune system lives in your gut, that it also has a direct link to the development of autoimmune disorders.

Yeah, it's everything. I mean, your gut microbiome is everything. And it's amazing what you can do to control it, which is what's so super exciting. And I know this is one of the key ways to do it. So let's talk about your best fermented foods since we kind of got nixed on the wine. My favorite fermented food. What are your favorite fermented foods for helping get this great microbial diversity?

So my number one absolute favorite is fermented veggies. And the reason I love it is because it has a diverse array of probiotics in it. And because it's dairy free, it's easy to make, it's easy to find at the grocery store. So, you know, this is absolutely my favorite. The second favorite is dairy kefir. And you can get non dairy versions of that, but I call it dairy kefir because traditionally you use a certain strain of bacteria and yeast to make it.

All right, so let's talk about fermented foods in general, because I know that I kind of jumped right in with this because this is a topic. This is one of those things, like every year I see it's New Year's, and I say, okay, I'm going to do yoga and eat fermented foods. And I actually even had Donna Gates make some with me. And I still kind of was like, oh, my gosh. But when we sat and talked about it, I thought, you know, you're really making this not scary. What are some of the big misconceptions about fermented foods that are probably freaking a lot of us out? Yeah.

Well, so one of the big ones, I would say, is that kombucha is really good for you. And, you know, that's one that I just want to put out there. I think kombucha is a great gateway ferment. It's good at helping you get used to the flavor. But you know what, jj? It has a lot of sugar in it. You make it with sugar and black tea, and even after a week of it fermenting, it still has a decent amount of sugar left. And when people are making it at home, they're usually making it sweeter.

Yeah. I love you're saying this because we actually constantly bash kombucha, and then we get everyone gets up in arms with us about it. But it's like, you know, that's when I looked at it went, well, this is not necessarily a good thing. It's amazing how in everything that we do, whether it's paleo or vegan or whatever diet, there always becomes this junk food part of it. And that's what I look at as kombucha, as.

I agree. Absolutely. And you know what? There's a time and a place for it. I've worked with some people who have gout. I've seen great results there. I've worked with people who have really struggled with soda addiction. Works great.

Yeah. I use Kavita for that.

Yeah, that's another great option.

I'm totally addicted. And again, the gal who created Kavita said, jj, there's ones with more sugar and less. So I know which ones have 1 gram of sugar versus the 4 per serving, and I choose that. So again, it just comes down to the halo effect on supposed health foods. You always have to check on that.

It's true. Well, and then you said some other misconceptions are really that, you know, the alcohol one. Let's just talk about the alcohol one, because you did bring up wine. The American Gut project is this really cool project where you can actually mail in a sample of your own contents of your gut and you can actually find out what's going on in there, and you contribute to their worldwide study that they're doing. And one thing they found is, like, this whole concept of microbial diversity. Right. Well, they found that people who drink wine or alcohol once a week generally have higher microbial diversity. So I don't think. I think your glass of wine is not going to be bad for you in this situation. And that can actually include beer. That can include liquor, too.

Yay. That's great news. Yay. I just want people to understand that, like, when we're thinking of, okay, we're going to add more fermented foods to our diet. You can't say, okay, well, I have wine, so I'm good. Right. I'm assuming there's more to it than that.

No, it really needs to be the probiotic rich ferments. And I Haven't mentioned yogurt yet. And there's kind of a reason. Yogurt is one of those ones where it still has benefit. Like the probiotics in yogurt are great. They usually add them after they've made the yogurt. So yogurt really is a food that's meant to be more easily digestible because it's fermented. It wasn't really considered like this probiotic vehicle for the most part. And so at this point in time, we're using it as a vehicle. We add like in the industry, we add more probiotics to the yogurt and then people are actually getting a probiotic supplement by taking that food in. It's not my favorite. There's only one or two bacteria in it usually. I really try to find fermented foods that have at least five to 15 different kinds of bacteria because again, that's the one thing that most people are missing these days. They're missing the microbial diversity. So that tends to be the biggest issue.

Yeah, and that's such a big deal. And I love that you're taking that one on. I think it's going to be the biggest thing out there is how we can change our gut microbiome. I got interested in it years ago when we discovered these firmicutes and bacteroides and that depending on your balance of them, you would either struggle with your weight or be lean. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And then we started to see what it was doing with depression and anxiety. I was like, okay, this is it. So it's super exciting. And one of the challenges with gut microbiome is there's a lot of stuff that you can do out there, there that doesn't necessarily make it better. But it sounds like with fermented foods that are probiotic rich, you actually. Because I know with some of these things you can actually create more problems. Is there a time when you shouldn't use these probiotic rich fermented foods? Like if someone had small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, do they deal with that first or what's your recommendation?

Yeah, I do think that there's a time when sometimes you're going to have to lay off the fermented foods. Definitely. Sibo, as you mentioned, small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Sometimes for people that have a yeast overgrowth, candida, some forms of dysbiosis, where the wrong kinds of bacteria are growing in the gut. And then for some people, they develop something called histamine intolerance. Where they can't handle histamines that are naturally occurring in food. And there's a lot of histamines in fermented foods. That's why some people, when they drink wine, their faces get flushed. It's the histamines in the wine that cause that. And so sometimes people have to lay off fermented foods until they deal with those issues first. But it's important. Those are all signs that the gut is not healthy and needs to be fixed before moving forward and getting the fermented foods into the body.

Yeah. So actually, that's great, because you could use fermented foods as a little bit of a trial to see if you've got candida or sibo. It's like your body can tell you or a high histamine reaction. So that sounds cool, too, right?

Absolutely. And then the interesting thing for me about all of this is the whole concept behind it is that you want to have a healthy gut. And, you know, and so you're really a home for all these bacteria, and you're communicating with them. You guys live in symbiosis. So you are feeding and nurturing a home for them, and they're in return, making vitamins for you, protecting you from other bacteria. Like, they produce natural antibiotics and antimicrobial substances inside your body to keep pathogenic organisms from growing and living there. So we have this amazing relationship with each other. And one thing that I think is a way that we're kind of missing the boat on the whole gut health thing is by focusing a little too much on the probiotics. Like, it's important. We need to understand and educate ourselves about it. But there's some studies out there and projects that. If you read these studies, it shows that the number one factor that influences what kind of bacteria grow in your gut are the foods that you eat, like, what you're eating on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, like, what are the foods that you regularly eat? Because these are the foods that are feeding your bacteria. I've worked with people who have enjoyed the Paleo diet. Of course, I work with a lot of people who try every kind of diet out there. And the one thing that I do feel like the Paleo diet is missing are some of the fermentable starches. And that's a big deal, because these fermentable starches, that means starches and carbohydrates that you eat. That bacteria then ferment in your gut and make short chain fatty acids, and they make the various vitamins, like Vitamin K and vitamin B on site in your intestines. And so if you're not eating those starches and those carbs, you're not getting that important growth of bacteria in your colon.

So I've always called it Paleo Plus, I think the new cool name is Pegan. It's like Paleo meets vegans. It's just ridiculous. But what are those ones that you just addressed? Like someone listening, what would be some of these fermentable starches that you would recommend?

Well, I'm a big fan of squashes. Onions are great for this. I really love it when people add a little bit of garlic into their diet. Banana actually works well in this way. And then, I mean, this is one of those ones where I think it's a little bit controversial because depending, it depends on your overall health, you have to be free of candida and things like that. You can't have yeast overgrowth to really go here. But I actually think white rice is a great, like rice and beans. Those are excellent growth medium for these bacteria.

Oh, my gosh. You just got kicked out of the Paleo community.

I did.

I know. It's like when Leanne wrote part time Paleo. I'm like, you're gonna get kicked out of the. Kicked out of the hood. But it's like we've got to look at all of these things. Food is medicine and it's a tool. So let's talk about someone going to the grocery store and they want to buy some of these things. I know we're going to talk a little bit too quickly about how to make them, but how does someone go into the grocery store and find some of these products? Yep.

So if you are going to go get fermented veggies, it's really important. You want to go to the refrigerated section first of all. And you want to read the label and make sure that it's unpasteurized. This is really, really important. If it's sitting out on the shelf outside of the refrigerator, it's been pasteurized, it's been heated. It means that all those bacteria have been killed. So make sure it's refrigerated. Make sure it says unpasteurized. I love Bubby's pickles and things like that. But they flash pasteurize their sauerkraut and they still sell it in the refrigerated section. So you have to really read the label still. And then another way to do this is to support your local companies. Look for the local ferments and maybe go to your farmer's market and buy local fermented veggies there, because then you can ask them, how are they making this? Is it unpasteurized? Are you using ceramic crocks and stainless steel to ferment in. I don't really advocate eating fermented foods that are made or stored in plastic.

So you also said it was super easy to do at home.

Oh, it's simple. It's really easy. It just takes. You can do it with cabbage, salt and a mason jar. And I actually really think that people should eat more, that eat more fermented foods in general. But if my life dream could come true, it would be that everybody makes fermented veggies at least once and gets it right. Because when you make fermented veggies on your countertop, you're basically, you're chopping up these vegetables, you add the salt, you stuff it down in the jar, and there's some more tips. And I'll share that with everybody. I'm happy to give them a video to teach how to do this. But when you do this and you let it sit on your counter for one to four weeks, and then after one to four weeks are up, you go, and you're ready to eat it and try it. I remember the very first time I did this, jj, I was like, I am not like, that has just been sitting here, what they call in the food industry, in the danger zone. And you're gonna. You want me to eat this now? Like, I was not on board with this whole plant. I didn't just, like, you know, come out of my mother's womb, like, fermenting and all of that. Like, it. There was a definite learning curve, and it was really scary. And every time I ferment something new, I still go through it. I get nervous about trying something the first time I've ever made it, because what if it has bacteria in it that could kill me? You know? Like, what about all the things that we do to sanitize all of our food surfaces and all of our surfaces everywhere and, like, our hands and all the, you know, this whole over sanitization we've gone through has killed a lot of bacteria, and it's affected our immune systems, and it's affected our ability to understand that these good bacteria actually are preventing the bad bacteria from growing. Like, in that crowd. Like, what happens is they start making lactic acid, which is what makes it sour. And that lactic acid won't allow pathogenic foodborne illnesses to grow in that Food so cool.

And a bonus is that sour takes your sweet tooth away. So it's like you're not only getting good bacteria in your gut, feeding them, but you're also getting rid of your sweet tooth. And you just did a total tease. Summer. So if someone wants to watch these videos where you show them how to do this, how do they do that? Where do they get those?

They can go to summerbock.com JJ and I'll give everybody listening to this the videos on how to make fermented vegetables. It's super fun.

That is so awesome. I thank you so much for that. And there's so much more that I want to talk to you about in terms of the gut because I know we're just scratching the surface here on this, especially after our pool conversation. So you will have to come back and I want to remind everyone listening that you can learn how to do this. It's easy. She got me over my phobia here. All you need to do is go to summerbock.com JJ you'll get videos on how to make veggies, fermented veggies at home. Super easy. And honestly, this is like the least expensive supplement for great gut health that there is. So it's like you got to do this now. After the break, I'm going to be answering a listener's question, so stay with me.

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Welcome back. This is the time where I answer a listener's question. And today's question is perfect for this topic. It comes from Barb and Barb says jj, we need to discuss gas. Painful gas. Bloating to the point of shortness of breath because of intra abdominal pressure. Is this food intolerance? Is this bad bacteria? If it is bad bacteria, how do I get rid of the bad bacteria and grow more good bacteria? Can you starve out the bad bacteria with a certain diet while promoting an environment for the good bacteria to take over. I've seen the video you did with Dr. Sarah and read a few of your blog posts on the topic. However, it left with more questions. I'm sorry, Barb. How to kill the bad bacteria before starting the probiotics to build the good one. Causes of gas, and how to eliminate it or cut down on it. I really feel like my stomach's an inflatable balloon that gets bigger as the day goes on. Alrighty. Thank you so much for this question, Barb. So, as you can tell, this is a little bit more complicated. And what I'd really recommend is you work with someone like Summer, some kind of functional nutritionist, functional practitioner on this. So here's the thing. Boy, does that sound like small intestinal bacteria overgrowth. It's so classic. I had a client early on. It actually was Suzanne, Summer's stepdaughter, Leslie. And she. And she lets me say her name, which is why I'm saying it. And she got more bloated as the day went on. It's how I first learned about small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Google that. Sibo. And doctors kept giving her more and more probiotics because she complained about her gut, which was making it worse because it feeds all the bacteria. So here's what you want to do. Step one, absolutely. Make sure that you've cleared for food intolerances. So virgin diet, do that. And make sure that you're also eating very low sugar impact, which I'm sure you are, because that feeds the bad bacteria, the gut. So that's step one. Along with that, make sure that you're taking enzymes. So the digestive enzymes that I have will work great here because you want to make sure that you're actually breaking down your protein and that you've got good hydrochloric acid in the gut to kill off some of the bad bacteria, too. Then before you add in fermented foods, before you add in probiotics, you've got to go and get rid of the bad bacteria in the gut. One of the great ways to do this is called bacteria for phages. And these phages are amazing because they actually go out after these bad bacteria in the gut. You can Google bacteriophage. We will be coming out with a straight bacteriophage product here soon. Right now we have one that's a combo of a phage and a probiotic. And, you know, as I looked more into this and realized how many people have sibo, I realized we have to just have a straight phage and then also there are some anti great antimicrobials out there and those are things like black walnut, things that are antibacterial and anti yeast, grapefruit seed extract, black walnut, garlic. There's a lot of these different things that you can use as well. But the real step here is that you've got is use enzymes, deal with food intolerances, but kill off the bad bacteria first before you start adding in the fermented food and the probiotics. Because again, you'll just start feeling more bloated as the day goes on. And one of the classic signs of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth feeling more bloated as the day goes on. Classic, classic. Alright, if you'd like to submit a question, just go to jjvirgin.com ask and you can leave a voicemail for me. I love hearing from you. And one more way I'd love to hear from you. I would hugely appreciate it if you could jump on Stitcher or itunes and leave a review for me. It helps a bunch and be sure to subscribe and share the show with your friends. Alrighty. This is Jake Virgin signing off and reminding you that you are worthy. Dare to live a life that matters.

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