Freedom from Chronic Pain with Nicole Sachs

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Welcome to the JJ Virgin Lifestyle show with celebrity nutrition expert, fitness hall of famer, and four time New York Times bestselling author, JJ Virgin. JJ Ray is a warrior mom whose knowledge and expertise have helped change hundreds of thousands of lives. With over 3.5 million podcast downloads and appearances on Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz, the Today Show, Rachael Ray, Larry King Live.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This show is about you, not about me. I want to help you find practical, real world ways to dial in your health and mindset so you can finally lose that weight and feel strong and energized. Stop settling for less than your personal best. It's time to find out how to look and feel better than ever. And I'll be right here with you the whole way. Hey, J.J. here. And in today's show, we're going to be talking about pain, specifically, a new way to address pain. Now, if you've been taking pain pills, pain medications, you're concerned about the effects they might be having on your body or you're just in chronic pain and looking for other solutions. I've got someone amazing for you today because I'm always looking for different approaches and especially in the area of pain, where when you are in any kind of pain, you know how it impacts every area of your life. But also a lot of the different medications that you take for pain have crazy side effects that you just don't want to do. One of them being that a lot of the pain medications can lead to leaky gut, and then leaky gut leads to food intolerances, and food intolerances lead to more pain. Like, how unfair is that? So today I have Nicole Sachs, who's a speaker, writer, podcaster, and psychotherapist who's dedicated her work and her practice to the treatment of chronic pain. She wrote the Meaning of Truth and has the Freedom from chronic pain podcast YouTube channel website. And she has literally helped thousands of people around the world within a completely different approach to pain. She's helped them heal themselves and basically cure themselves with no medication or surgery. Sound enticing? I bet it does. And what's super cool is she's also got the first module of her course, her freedom from chronic pain course that you're going to get for free by going to jjvirgin.com listen now before we dive in today's show, I want to do a shout out to cap1289 from the USA who said talk about how to stay pumped. Five stars she gave the show and says I love the show hands down. So thank you so much for that. I super appreciate it. We love those reviews. They are literally everything to us. They tell us how well we're doing. So love that. And I want to share one more thing I love with you and then we'll be diving in.

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Nicole Sachs, welcome to the show. Super excited to have you with us.

So glad to be here.

So, big topic that we are tackling today because one of the biggest reasons people go see their doctors is because of pain. And so I love this idea that you can give people freedom from chronic pain. This is like super cool. So we are going to be digging into that. But before we go there, I always like to find out how you got to this place. So I know you're going to have a very, very different approach to pain than what we've talked about in the past. How did you, you know, what, what is your hero's journey here? How did you get into all of this?

Yeah, well, it's a very personal journey that I love sharing because I love being the example, like a walking around science experiment, the example of how this works and how I've carried it to other people. When I was 19 years old, I was diagnosed with a severe condition of the spine called spondylolisthesis. I had the degenerative variety, so I was told it would get worse as I got older. And I was basically given kind of a living death sentence as a 19 year old, which is no sports, no travel, no riding in the car for more than an hour because of the bouncy motion of the car. And the likelihood that I would have biological children was very slim because my spine was degenerating.

Wow. So back, back up. All of a sudden you got this diagnosis at 19. What was going on?

I was a freshman in college. I was pledging a sorority. I was out on my own for the first time in my life and I was just getting by. You know, freshman year, we're all.

But I mean, all of a sudden your back started hurting or what? Like what happened?

Actually, you know, if I really look back and a lot of people say this to me when they do the work that I, that I do, if I look back, I had back problems even as a young child, 10, 11 years old, my back would ache. And then of course, sometimes I would get stomach aches and sometimes I would get anxiety. So I always had like little, little tinges of it. But my freshman year, my back went out. So the people, people would understand it. As I was on the floor, I was in tears and I actually had to be physically removed from college. My parents had to come up and help me and drive me home. And that is how I began my journey, which is I went to all the doctors, I had an mri, I had X rays, I was on opioid pain medications. I was on steroids. So, yeah, So, I mean, I had what they call an acute pain incident.

Got it. Okay, so then what happened?

So then I got this diagnosis. And I still want to say that even now, if an orthopedic surgeon sees my mri, they go pale. Apparently, I have a very malformed spine at the base of my spine, but I don't walk differently, I don't stand differently. It's just internal. And so basically, I started on my life of living in fear. I lived very carefully. I didn't travel much. I was never able to lift a suitcase. I just kind of. I went on with my life because they did suggest that I would need spinal fusion surgery, but they said I could probably live to 40 without it if I didn't go into manual labor. So. So I just. Basically, I lived in fear. I lived small. I lived carefully. And it went on like that until I was in graduate school and I came across the work of Dr. John Sarno. And he, at the time, was an attending physician at the Rusk center for Rehabilitation at NYU Medical center, and he taught that there was a mind body connection. And the first book I actually read of his was called Healing Back Pain. But soon after, I read the Mind Body Prescription, which to me is the best one he wrote, and I understood that even though we all have what he called normal abnormalities, which is my spine is misshapen, I do have spondylolisthesis, for sure. I still have that diagnosis. It doesn't account for our pain, which is why back surgery and other structural surgeries have such a low success rate at reducing pain. And so I started on this journey of understanding that the mind and the body are so connected, and the reason they're connected is because everything works through our brain and our nervous system, and that's what's required to send pain signals. And so if our emotional processes are leading to pain signals being fired, that actually means that an emotional exercise can cure a physical condition. And so that's kind of where it started for me.

So you read his work, and then you what. What happened? You put it into your own practice, I would assume.

Right. So. So I wasn't actually, at the time, done with graduate school, so I wasn't a licensed therapist yet, but I was very.

No, no, I, like, forget the other people. Like, I mean, what makes this so amazing? I always feel that practitioners have a big leg up when whatever they're teaching, they've had that own experience because, you know, there's nothing that you can Trade for that. So here you were, you read his work. How did you incorporate that into your own life and what happened?

So, basically, what I came to understand through reading his work and through doing, you know, really good research on my own, was that we live in a mind body system, and sometimes we feel things in our hearts, and sometimes we feel things in our bodies, and they're literally interchangeable. And what is interesting is that most people who I speak to understand that this is true. You know, if I speak to a lecture hall of people, I'll say, raise your hand if you ever had a stressful day and you got a headache. You know, every hand goes up. Raise your hand if you've ever gotten bad news and you immediately felt sick to your stomach. Every hand goes up. So basically, I start explaining to people that what I'm teaching them is something they already believe. And so if we can understand that our minds and our bodies are that connected and every time we have an emotional reaction that we feel in our body, if you have that enough, and if your nervous system remains in chronic fight or flight, instead of rest and repair where we want it, you can get into a chronic condition like migraines, like fibromyalgia, and like my back pain. And so I set upon a path of doing the work to allow my repressed emotions to rise. And I was just astonished at how my back pain started going away. And this is what Dr. Sarno says will happen, but it's. It's so remarkable to have it happen in your own body. And so as I was developing my own practice, I started understanding new ways to explain, explain it to other people. And by now, at this part of my journey, I was already a licensed therapist. I actually started working with Dr. Sarno at NYU, and he started referring into my practice. So now I'm practicing with other people and I'm helping them understand a concept that I call journal speak, which is when you are able to fully reckon with the truths that live within you, which, you know, we can get more into it. And I can certainly explain this more, you know, eloquently in terms of the details. When you're able to get to that basic truth and your body is no longer fighting to repress it or to divert you with the pain from what you really need to feel, the nervous system and the brain literally stop firing these pain signals. The syndromes fail to be syndromes.

Well, yeah, let's dig into that, because that's huge. How do you know what these things are?

So, essentially, as a therapist, so When I was doing private practice for all the years working with people, I understood that people are often willing to tell the truth, but then they want to touch into it really quickly, and then they want to jump out of it, you know, and that is a protective mechanism from the nervous system. And I need to say, jj, I want to make sure to say this because I sometimes hear myself talk and I say, I hope people aren't going to dismiss this out of turn in terms of, like, how could an emotional exercise cure a physical condition? I do want to state that this is actually brain science. This is not that you're going to do an emotional exercise and feel better about something and so you're not going to feel pain. This is literally that as a society, we are the same as we are, you know, 2019 men and women, the same as early man. When we're in fight or flight, we only have a few parts of our systems that are working properly for us. And so many systems shut down when you're in sustained fight or flight, like digestion and circulation and things that you obviously need to feel well. And so one thing that happens when you go through these truths is your nervous system literally stops being in fight or flight. So that's what causes the cessation of pain. Just needed to say that so people aren't confused. But in any case, the process that I discovered in myself I called journal speak. And essentially because one of the things Dr. Sarno recommended that you do is that you journal. And so people have been journaling for the ages. And obviously journaling can make you feel like you understand a situation better or you feel better. But I understood very early on in my journey that kind of journaling just sort of just like gentle telling of my day, that wasn't going to be the stuff that heals. I was going to need to get raw because I just had an intuition, something deep in me that knew that just, you know, kind of gently touching on the subjects of my life wasn't going to be what is releasing my nervous system from the sustained fight or flight. And so what, what I teach people to do is to make three lists. Daily life, childhood, and personality. And so those three lists are just bulleted lists that kind of brainstorm the things that come up that you may have conflict about or you may have unresolved issues about. And the daily life stuff is just what we all deal with, right? Love, money, kids, work, moving, whatever it is that we have to deal with is daily life and then personality. Most people who experience any sort of Chronic conditions, and that includes anxiety. Chronic anxiety is something that I treat very successfully. They have the personalities that tend to inform those kind of things, like perfectionism. You want to be liked by everyone, you want everyone to be okay, so you're okay. You want to be seen as a good person. You know, society really fuels these personality characteristics in us and makes us feel like that's the way we need to be. You know, a lot of shoulds. And so people with these personalities, which is almost all of us to some extent, and then unresolved stuff from childhood, which is always informing daily life, we make a bulleted list of those three things and then I teach them how to journal speak it out, which is essentially letting that five year old kid inside of you who is still running the show in so many ways have his or her voice without a filter and without, without anyone ever needing to see it. So journal speak is a practice. It's not anything you're going to keep. Just like I say, if you want six pack abs, right, you're going to go to a trainer and you're going to find, get a regimen of what you're going to do for your six pack abs. If you do it every day for a long enough period of time, you'll get the abs. Journal speak is like that. It's just an exercise. You don't need to keep it, you don't need to share it. You destroy it right when it's done or erase it, you know, if you're doing it on a computer. And the exercise itself, as it informs the nervous system in the brain, slowly but surely the pain signals stop firing. And if you think this is too crazy to be true, I'm telling you, use your body as a science experiment, Learn about the work and do it. It's astonishing the way it works.

So how quickly, Because I'm listening to this and my questions are, how do you really identify? Because I think for a lot of people that have just kind of stuffed things and repressed things, they wouldn't even, they might not even remember some of the things from childhood that keep showing up for them. Or they might not be aware of a part of their personality that's creating the issues, you know, or even stuff going on in daily life. How do you uncover these things if you've kind of shoved them? I always used to laugh. This was, this was my perfect technique. It worked really well. You're gonna laugh at this. So the way I used to handle all the crappy things that happened is I always said I Just have this closet and I put them in the closet and I shut the door. Which of course does not. That does not work, by the way. Bad technique. Horrid. You know, so until you open the closet and like all, like, you know, smothers you. So how do you know? Because for a lot of this stuff, I would imagine it's like peeling an onion where you think, okay, like, I've handled all those things. And then you go, oh. And then that happened.

Yes. Okay, so that's a great question. What I would like people to understand if they're going to do this work is sometimes you just have to do left foot, right foot, breathe. It's, it's. It's about being in the process and signing up for the journey. So there's three facets of my work. Believe. Do the work and patience and kindness for yourself. And if you set your intention. So let's say you have chronic migraines, okay. And so you set your. And you've tried all the medical stuff and you don't want to get on the drugs and whatever the case, and you say, okay, I'm going to do, you know, Nicole's work for Mind Body Medicine. I'm going to do this. So your intention is. I'm fine. My nervous system is in inflamed fight or flight. I am not able to heal myself through just reasoning with it. Need to uncover what I need to uncover in order for my brain to stop sending these pain signals. Okay, all right, I believe that. I'm going to go with that. And even if you don't believe it, just suspend your disbelief. Just go on the ride, and then you're going to start doing the work. And a lot of people I know do not remember everything from childhood. And you don't need to, because what happens when you open yourself up to the work? And I do believe the work has a spiritual aspect, like, you know, the connectedness of all people and the universe and the energy just opening yourself up to healing. The things that you need will rise. And I have seen this happen. So, I mean, I've been private practice for over 15 years dealing with the most extreme cases you can imagine. People in wheelchairs that are now running marathons. No joke. I mean, really extreme, crazy recovery stories. People who are on disability for years and years that are now back to work full time. You know, I have one case of a girl who had traveled the world, including South Africa, getting experimental treatments on her head, you know, for her facial and head pain that did this work. And six months later was back in veterinary school full time, and she's now doing an emergency residency at Penn. Like, so these are these amazing stories, and they all came from people from all walks of life that don't necessarily remember everything and don't necessarily know, you know, every single problem that ever happened to them. But it's. What rises is. What's important is when you start partnering with yourself, you start realizing that things are not as complicated as you realize. You know, like, a lot of people are triggered daily, let's say, by injustice. I know I'm very triggered by injustice. Like, if I figure, feel like I.

Have a son like this, my. One of my sons, we've gotten him through it, but like, the whole. He had this whole thing around, life isn't fair. I'm like, okay, that's the story, you know, and everything wanted to be fair, and no one could cut in line. I'm like, honey, you know, really.

And that's a really extreme way to look at it. But if you are going to. If you're triggered by it, you know, let's just say he's triggered by it. Something happened at some point that made him feel like life wasn't fair, right? And maybe it's his birth order and maybe it's the place, the way the kids treated him in third grade. You know, this is not necessarily about fixing a problem or changing. You know, we can't change our past. We can't change what happened. This is simply about informing your very protective brain and nervous system that the predator. Well, you know, if we're in fight or flight, that means a predator is pursuing us. The predator is not dangerous. Because if your nervous system needs to choose between what hurts or what hurts worse. And let's say just in our imaginary example, the person who is very upset about injustice was treated very unjustly in elementary school. He was bullied. Well, then there's still a part of him that's still reacting to that. And there's still a part of his brain and nervous system that feels that. That is so painful to feel that he can't feel it. He needs to get a backache or a headache or a stomach issue or a skin disorder or, you know, however it's manifesting in his body. If that person can journal, speak and understand, even if he doesn't remember the players and the details, how it felt to feel left out or how it felt to feel marginalized, then maybe he doesn't have to go 10 rounds about, you know, a marginalized person that he met today. That, you know, it's not fair for that person because that is what happens. That we're triggered on in our daily lives constantly by unresolved stuff that we're still living through.

Makes so much sense now. How quickly can someone start to turn this around? And then is it an ongoing process or once you've gone through it, you're like, cool. What happens there?

I think that this can be turned. The initial resolution of pain is often abrupt, meaning people who have been suffering for a very long while can do this work and they'll have like, it's sort of like a moment where they can't believe that they go like, you know, an hour without the pain they usually had. Oftentimes there's a pretty quick situation where they understand that this is going to help them. It's almost like a little nod from your nervous system, like, okay, all right, we're calming down. We have new information and we're going to check it out. But I think it's very important not to rely on that and not to stop doing the work, because this is built up with, you know, however many years we've been repressing things that we need to sort of patiently. That's the third part of the work is patience and kindness for yourself, patiently and kindly work through these issues. But what I will say is people who operate in belief, who do the work regularly, as I suggest, which is a 20 minute a day journal speak practice, followed by 10 minutes of any kind of loving kindness meditation you choose, guided or unguided. People who do this work get progressively and progressively better. And the last little bit of healing usually has to do with releasing the fear of the pain, like releasing the fear that it's coming back for you. But there's so many resources out there. I have so many resources. There's so many ways to continue keeping positive on the journey, and eventually the chronic pain just fades.

Got it. So I look at this and I think, well, why wouldn't this become a first? Like, we talk about first line therapy in medicine and it's like you look at it and go, well, why wouldn't this just be first? Why isn't this out there more? I'd heard John Sarno's work and he is just amazing. But it's. It's like the best kept secret.

Well, I mean, if we're going to speak frankly, jj, yes, it's about frankly. Let's do that. It's about money. Listen, you know, I mean, here we.

Have an opiate, we have an opioid epidemic. And you know, why wouldn't we be working with people first on, on this? You know, it's crazy.

Well, it is crazy. And I'm going to tell you that, you know, I'll be 47 years old next week and my goal is before I leave this planet and transfer him into anything else, I'm going to be, I'm going to make a difference in this. I believe that this is the first line beyond, beyond. But the problem is, and I'm not an anti medical person, I'm not anti. I'm just reasonable that there are certain medications that are necessary and there are certain surgeries that are necessary. But the amount of medication we take as a society and the amount of unnecessary surgery is catastrophic. And the reason that it is being perpetuated is because this work doesn't make money for big pharma or for insurance companies or you know, it's really personal work. And that's why everybody listening today, anybody who is here hearing our voices, please know that the change for this kind of thing does not happen from the top down. This needs to happen in each one of us. Each one of us has to decide. I'm done suffering. I no longer want to suffer. I am ready to try something new because trying something new is the only way I'm going to change my life. And that's where it has to begin. And I believe this change will be very dramatic. But I think it's going to come from the bottom up because each person is going to need to decide for him or herself that they are ready for a new life.

Well, it's actually, you know, a good time in the zeitgeist because of all this stuff going on and people becoming aware that there's gotta be better solution. So I super appreciate you being out there driving this out into the world. And I also love the fact that you're going to give everybody the first lesson of your course so they can get started right away. I mean you've given us some tools to start working with, but now you have no excuse. This is like to me this is, it's like free. It's easy to do if you have any kind of pain going on. Like I can't see any reason not to get started doing this. So I'm gonna give everyone the link as to this course. You can get this@jjvirgin.com listen and I'll also put the link to your book as well so you can grab that there against JJvirgin.com listen and that will take you to the link to be able to get with Nicole's work. And this is just crazy. I'd love to end with one more really cool success story just to show people what.

Okay. All right.

Okay. I know it's always hard when you say one.

I know. Let me think. Okay, so I'm going to tell you the story of. Her name is Mouse, and that's a nickname, but it is the name she goes by. I think it's because when she was a little girl, she was very much younger than the rest of her siblings, and she used to hide in the corner when they had their boyfriends and girlfriends over, and they would be like, there's a little mouse in the corner. So she became Mouse. So, Mouse, she was referred into my practice from a doctor that I work with at Northwestern in Chicago, and she had just attended her son's wedding in a wheelchair. She had severe. I think that her technical diagnosis was plantar fasciitis, which a lot of people do experience very severe pain of the feet. And I think she also had pain in her legs, and it was so bad that she had. I think she was in her early 60s, had been an incredibly athletic, very well woman. And she had this. You know, the problem was so bad, she hobbled down the aisle. But the rest of the wedding, she had spent in a wheelchair. And so we started working together, and she was very, very polite. Very polite. Very good girl. Right. She had always, like, done as she was told. She's from Minnesota. She had just been a good. She'd been married to her husband for, like, over 40 years, and she had three beautiful, amazing, successful children. She had the whole package. And I remember telling her, well, you know, mouse, when you do journal speak, you're gonna have to really let it loose. Like, you might have to swear. You might have to use the F word in your writing. And she was like, oh. Oh, really? Oh, I don't know. It was adorable. And she was obviously very repressed. So basically, you know, we went. I'm not going to share, obviously, the personal issues in her life, but we. We went through her life. We talked. She had an abusive, alcoholic father and a mother who was chronically ill herself, and a lot of other issues that were going on. And little by little, she started to understand that she had just made herself very small, ironically, like a mouse, in order to let everybody else have the stage. And the inner child inside was screaming, screaming for attention. And what she realized in her feet is that she was not going to be permitted to just go on and Walk on. Until something was changed. She was being stopped in her tracks by her own brain and nervous system saying, no, no, life is too short. And you are living without enough joy and without enough presence for the fact that you're important too. And we did this work together. She was a warrior with journal speak. She did her journal speak every day. She meditated. And it was only maybe. I mean, I don't like to ever put a timeline on it because I never want people to be frustrated because everybody's journey is their own. But I believe it was a few months before it started getting significantly better. I don't remember exactly, but I know a year later, when she was looking back at her son's wedding picture, she was playing 18 holes of golf on a regular basis. She was back to her long, long walks with her husband at night. She's absolutely, completely chronic pain free today. I actually interviewed her on my podcast a few weeks back and so, you know, people can check it out if they look at my podcast. But yeah, she's. She's an absolute success story and she is ordinary in my practice. That's what people need to realize. This sounds like it's awesome success story. You know, all her pictures at her son's wedding were in a wheelchair and now she's playing 18 holes of golf. This is normal. People, like, have this transformation all the time. Because if you think about it logically, if your nervous system is in fight or flight and everything's shutting down and all these pain signals are being fired because it's protecting you from your repressed emotions, when the emotions rise, there's nothing to protect you from anymore. And so it makes sense that these are like cataclysmic shifts in people's wellness.

And I would imagine I'm going to take it one step further is I would imagine it shows up in every area of your life. So this is a huge thing. This is going to help with pain, but when you start to resolve these things, everything gets better. So it's a huge thing you're doing. And I like the framework that you've just put out. So I want to remind everyone, go to jjvirgin.com listen, you can get started with the first module in the course and stay with me because I'm going to share my top action step from today so you can put it into immediate action. So I want to share some key takeaways. It's kind of my debrief time. As you can tell, I'm rustling papers because I was taking notes while Nicole was Talking. And I really loved the way that she talked about journal speak because I'm a, I'm a big journal gal. I love to journal my goals. I use journaling in all of our breakthrough carbon tolerance and breakthrough food and tars and detox and fast fitness programs because it is such a great success metric. But I love the idea of journaling about your daily life, about your childhood and about your personality and really doing the work and going through those to identify those pain points that could be creating the pain issues for you. So I just wanted to give you those three areas again to incorporate into your, into your journaling and then to think of it in terms of journals speak where it's really that safe place where you can just like blah, get it all out. And I had a friend who always used to say, it's better out than in. So again, that was the three areas, daily life, childhood and personality. And then she gave kind of three key concepts to remember as you're going through this. Number one, believe. Number two, do the work. And number three, have patience and kindness for yourself. And you know, I look at those and I think we just gotta put that into everything we do in every part of our life. So I just love that. Wanted to do a big share on that. I also wanted to remind you that we have great show notes from this with that link to the getting started on our course for free. The first module. And you can get that at jjvirgin.com forward/listen. And then I want to remind you, if you haven't subscribed yet, please remember to so that you don't miss any of this goodness. And while you're over there, leave a review because I'd love to shout you out. All right, see you next time.

That's all for this episode of the JJ Virgin Lifestyle show, which marks another step towards a healthier body and mind. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the show and we'll talk to you next week.

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Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their Next Read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading. Next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And, of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now, wherever you're listening to this podcast, and Visit our website, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.