Healthy Living with Katie Wells, The Wellness Mama

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Welcome to the JJ Virgin Lifestyle show with celebrity nutrition expert, fitness hall of famer and four time New York Times best selling author, JJ Virgin. JJ is a warrior mom whose knowledge and expertise have helped change hundreds of thousands of lives. With over 3.5 million podcast downloads and appearances on Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz, the Today Show, Rachael Ray, Larry King, Love.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This show is about you, not about me. I want to help you find practical, real world ways to dial in your health and mindset so you can finally lose that weight and feel strong and energized. Stop settling for less than your personal best. It's time to find out how to look and feel better than ever. And I'll be right here with you the whole way. Hey, it's J.J. here. I have really just super cool guest today. I'm like, I, my mouth's kind of on the floor. I sort of like jaw dropped so many times during this interview because of so many wisdom bombs that came out of Katie wellness mama's mouth. Katie. I've known her now for five years. She is a mom of six. Six. They're between ages of what I think 2 and 14. I mean, it's just crazy. So here's it get. But it gets better. Not only is she a mom of six, she homeschools them. She runs a very successful business. She's an award winning blogger. You've probably heard of Katie Wellness mama, podcaster and a real food crusader. And she's just, if you want any tips on like how to run a healthy home, natural beauty, real food, natural remedies. Her blog is incredible. She's an incredible resource. But the bigger thing today that I wasn't expecting that came out of this interview were like the ways that she is able to run a household, feed all of her kids, keep everything on schedule, and allow herself to take care of her health and stay sane and healthy. It's, it's stunning. And if she can do this for a household of six, think what you can do if you are say a household of one or two or three or four. Right? It's, it's really quite fantastic. And how to do this all on a budget as well. So she's been all over the place. She was recently named by Greatest as one of the hundred most influential people in health and wellness. She was alongside Dr. Oz and Dr. Mercola and Tim Ferriss. Katie, welcome to the show. I am so glad you're here with me today.

Thank you for having me. This is so much fun. I would chat with you all day, every day anyway. And I love that we get an excuse.

I know. So your whole thing, you are such an inspiration to so many moms out there in the world. And I just want to know. And for those of you listening, this is Katie, wellness mama. I want to know how you got that moniker.

I'll try to tell the short version because I know we are trying to keep it short today. Basically they say that people go into psychiatry to fix themselves. And that's, for me, the reason I went into health. And it was kind of one of those perfect storm things where I was super type A in high school and college and like valedictorian and in every single club and full scholarship to college, which meant, yay, I get to do way tons of extra work and take 28 hours a semester and what, sleep? I don't even remember what that is. And so like went through that for years. And pretty much like a lot of college students ate whatever I wanted and didn't sleep and had way more stress than any human should have and realized in hindsight that's the perfect way to create autoimmune disease and that if you then also get married and have a baby shortly after that, that like, it will really throw your body into chaos. So I was a new mom with a six week old baby, dealing with all kinds of health problems and feeling terrible and trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And at the same time read in Time magazine that for the first time in two centuries, the current generation of American children would have a shorter life expectancy than their parents. And since I like nursing the next generation like a six week old baby, at that point it really just struck me. And that type A, like, I've always been the type, if you tell me I can't do something, I'm like, hold my beer. And so that like, that rebel in me was like, no way. That is not happening to my kid and that is not happening to other kids in today's generation. But also at the same time, I have like zero energy and my hair is falling out. So I just kind of went on my own journey, went back to school for nutrition and Started trying to find my own answers. And thankfully, my husband was encouraging me to start a blog at the same time. And he was actually saying, you should start a political blog, which, thank goodness I did not do. That would have been, oh, my gosh. But I was like, no, I want to write about this nutrition stuff I'm learning, and just started writing about it. And I think it really resonated with a lot of women, because unfortunately, that seems to be all too common of a story, is women don't put ourselves first, and we stress ourselves out, and we do everything for everybody else and push really hard and then end up with a health problem. And so I think the story just really resonated. And my goal from the beginning was to create, like, a community, because I was this. I was isolated. I had. Well, My oldest is 11. My youngest is two. So I had six kids in nine years.

And how many do you have?

Six.

Six.

So I was kind of, for a lot of those years, stuck at home. Like, it's not really fun to take three toddlers anywhere. So I was stuck at home, and I wanted to build a community. And I realized there are probably a lot of other moms who are looking for someone else who's on this health journey, too. So that was always the focus of Wellness Mama. And I think that's partially why it was able to grow, is that it resonated with those other moms who are just looking for a community and someone who under. So that's why I always say that the blog has never been or never supposed to be about me specifically, it's supposed to be about the community of moms that are all on this journey together to make healthier changes for the next generation and also for ourselves, because that's where it really starts.

Yeah. And to me, you just absolutely exemplify a warrior mom. Like, you know, in my dictionary definition, there would be your face because of a couple things. First of all, six kids. Oh, my gosh. And you homeschool. So. So there's that. But also, you know, you've had this health struggle. You made sure you were taking care of yourself, as you kind of alluded to. I see so many women who kind of put their health on the back burner. That does not make you a good mom. Like, how on earth could you homeschool and take care of six kids if you weren't taking care of your health? There's no way you'd be able to do it.

Yeah, exactly.

Right. And, you know, then really, like, kids are going to watch what you do. And I know that you've really. I love that whole. I wrote down as you were talking, I was like, not on my watch. Like, the minute you heard that this was going to be the generation that was going to be less healthy and shorter lifespan than their parents, like, not my kids, not on my watch. That's not happening. And recognizing that the best way to have healthy kids is to start with being healthy yourself, because they're going to watch what you do. I had a client early on who was a smoker and I'm like, well, do you want your kids to be smokers? She's. And she's like, oh, they're not going to smoke. I go, sure, they're going to smoke. Like, because like, of course they're going to smoke. You're smoking. Like, what else would they do that you just said it was okay? So let's talk about like, first of all, you've got six kids and you've got healthy kids. What are some secrets to getting your kids to eat healthy and making all those healthy meals without this becoming its own full time job?

Yeah, that's a great question because it totally can take over your life. And I will preface by saying I don't have teenagers yet. I'm bracing for that, but I don't. I will have four teenage daughters at one time. So for anybody who thinks I will pay my dues when that time comes, for sure. But I think it's largely a lot of it goes into the mindset, no matter what their age is. I know from experience in my own childhood that the complete, like iron fist model of parenting isn't very effective. It works for a short amount of time and guilt can be a tremendous motivator. But if you're actually talking about lifelong habits or getting them to have a solid foundation, you have to start with something besides that because you have to give them the ability in their own way to make those choices. And that doesn't mean you ever provide junk and let them make that choice in your house. But just that mindset has been a really important, important thing for me. So I kind of mentally, I separated into like, what are the things that are my responsibility versus what are the things that are their responsibility and that no matter what their age, there's always going to be a division there. So I look at as first and foremost, like, our kids don't owe us anything. I always say, say that like we chose to have them, they don't owe us anything. Like, if anything, we owe them stuff. But that doesn't mean I'm going to do everything for them. So when, when I look at it and like the broad picture, it's that I am responsible for providing them a safe and clean home that doesn't have all kinds of chemicals lurking all over the place and providing them nutritious food that's going to help them grow and providing them like a stable emotional environment and all those things. But that's where my responsibility stops. So I'm going to cook dinner and I'm going to put it on the table, but I'm not responsible for making them eat it or like caring if they like it. Like, I will cook healthy food and hopefully everybody likes it. But we've always held the line that like, if you don't like food, you're welcome to not eat it, but I'm not going to make you a peanut butter and jelly sandwich just because you like.

This is so important. This bears so much repeating. I remember having one client who told me that her son, her three year old son would only, you're gonna love this. Would only eat microwave bake, oh my gosh. And I remember thinking, well, but he doesn't have a car, he doesn't have money, he's not cooking. So explain this one to me.

Yeah, exactly. I think that's the huge key is I think a lot of moms that I get it because it's an like a new mom. I had to wrestle with this myself. But we like, we're responsible for providing them healthy food, but we are not responsible for forcing them to eat it. And they don't have to eat at every single meal. Like throughout history, even children, they didn't necessarily eat three to six meals a day. And if you look at the actual data, most children are not even just eating three to six meals a day. They're putting food in their mouth at least 18 times a day. Which metabolically, like you talk about snacking, right jj, like you kind of put a hard line on this too. So literally our kids are never getting a time when they're not trying to digest food, which isn't actually good for the brain either. And that's a whole separate topic. But like it's okay if they don't like a food hunger. I always say hunger is a great teacher. And if they miss one meal, they're actually more likely to eat the next one. And they're not going to die because they didn't want to eat chicken and broccoli at lunch. And they'll be fine. They could eat at Dinner. They're not starving. They are not even close to starving. There are children in the world who truly are. And that's not any of our kids who are listening to this. So that's been a big thing. And also the same thing applies not just in the health realm, but to division of labor in the house. Like, we have a hard rule that we don't do things for our kids that they're capable of doing for themselves. And that applies to all aspects of life. Because like I always tell my husband and I talk about like, our job is not to raise kids. Our job is to raise adults. And we're not going to raise adults if we're like catering to them and cleaning the rooms for them and doing all these things for them. And then they have to go like at 18, fly out in the world. And we're also going to encourage them to like be entrepreneurs and start a business. But they don't know how to clean their room. So we're big on not doing.

I didn't know how to clean my room when I went to college. I actually conned my roommate into cleaning my room if I took out the trash.

That's impressive. See, entrepreneurship at work though, from the very beginning.

Yeah, but my mother was the one who always cleaned the room and did the wash. I didn't know how to do it, so.

Yeah, and my mom too, to some degree. Like, she focused. We were supposed to be really good in academics. That was a big thing in our family. And like getting perfect grades and scholarships was important. So she would do like all the cooking and all the cleaning and everything else so we could just focus on school. But I got married and could not cook a thing. Like nothing, and had to learn how to clean. And now, even to this day, my husband was the opposite. His mom was like the type to wake them up at 2 in the morning if they didn't clean well enough. So we're trying to find a balance. But I realized like, I don't know how to clean. And more importantly, it's not even like a remote compulsion for me. It's something I have to make myself do right. So I want that to be like a built in thing.

Except when I was pregnant, I got very into cleaning. I was like, you know, I got into the nesting, but that went away pretty fast.

Pregnancy is great for that. I'm like, I should, if I ever get pregnant again, I could like remodel the house.

I could like fold all the colors. It's incredible. Well, so what are some key things like, you know, making dinner for, you know, breakfast, lunch, and dinner for six. There's. There's some. Because this will translate to everybody, whether they're an empty nester, they're by themselves. Like those quick things. Do you batch cook? Like, how the heck do you do this so that you are not spending a fortune and not spending a ton of time?

Yeah, absolutely. So we do batch cook, but I also cheat and just have, like, about 21 meals per season that we rotate. So, like, trying to focus on seasonal produce whenever possible, which is cheaper. Like, if you want to save money, stick to cabbage when it's 39 cents a pound versus $3 a pound. So we do have a seasonal meal plan that rotates. And for years, what I would do is just have index cards with all those recipes on them and then the ingredients on the back per person. So not for the whole recipe, but, like, for each person you're cooking for, you need this amount. So then if we were going to have people over, I could easily multiply those out. So I would every week, sit, make the shopping list. I would only shop once a week, and I would just figure out all the recipes, put them in order, and then flip all the cards over and assemble the shopping list in order of how. I'd have to go through the grocery store, so that way I wouldn't spend very much time there. And I would really focus on, like, really budget friendly meals, like stir fries and soups. And we do a lot of, like, salads with proteins and all kinds of good stuff on top just to keep it simple, because you really can end up spending all your time in the kitchen if you're trying to be a gourmet cook. And so all my recipes that I use are very simple. Like, one of our family favorites is called Pakistani Keema, which is, like frozen vegetables, and it's a stir fry, and you cook it in one pan and you only have to wash one pan. Like, those are my favorite kind. They take 20 minutes or less and they're one pan. And I'm happy to send you some links to those if you want to put them in the show notes or anything.

Oh, this stuff is fantastic. I mean, I'm listening to all this, Katie, and I'm thinking, parenting. I know you have a cookbook, but I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, you have to write a parenting book. Like, just everything you've said so far, I'm like, oh, this is fantastic.

Oh, thank you. Well, and to be fair, like, most of the things in the cookbook are very quick recipes and easy. But even like I default to the same recipes and just rotate them by season because it's just easier.

Well, don't we all? I mean, one of the key things I do is I just have my freezer is just stocked with butcherbox and then I've got, you know, wild rice and potatoes and things like that in the pantry. And then I. And then I have my bone broth and veggies and it's like shopping so.

Easy because I'm like, the non perishables come from Thrive, the meat comes from butcherbox. And then I just go get vegetables at the farmer's and I'm done.

Yeah, it's like, it's so. It's so much easier now than it was even a couple years ago. And inexpensive. I mean, now all of these healthy foods have gotten pretty.

Yeah, absolutely. It has changed, I think back like 10 years ago when we first started. You couldn't even find things like coconut oil or like avocado oil in the store. Like that didn't exist. Or like a lot of these obscure health foods. Like we use coconut aminos all the time. Those didn't exist in stores years ago.

Like, no. I remember when I wrote virgin diet and it was like people were struggling so much to find these gluten free, you know, the gluten free things. And at that time, coconut was still evil.

Now you could like live on a completely gluten free junk food diet because they have every food imaginable. Gluten free.

That's a whole other conversation of, of bad, doom and expensive too. So we all know that if it says gluten free, don't eat it because real gluten free food doesn't need to.

Exactly. Although I did see some water the other day labeled gluten free and I'm like, what? Why would you even have to put that on one?

Come on. That's good. Gluten free, fat free, cholesterol free. That's really good. That definitely should be.

Although I did. So we have a group that gets together of just families several times a year. And I always do the meal planning for it. And this year it was like I got all the meal planning requests and it's like one family is keto and one family has like no mammal meat. And one family has. And I was like, literally like, here's your gluten free paleo water that we're all going to eat. Because that is all that fits every single criteria.

Yeah, it's funny, I just did a segment on Dr. Oz. And I was like, it's Paleo, it's vegan, it's fat free, it's GMO for. I'm like, okay, so you guys all calm down. Only it's not as cute.

So yeah, it's crazy.

Yes. So what about you? You know, six kids, you're homeschooling. I. I love the way that you do the meals. This is awesome. But like, how do you have time for you? How do you have like any kind of balance in your life? Or is balance just kind of a.

Well, I do think balance is a moving target for all of us, for sure. I'm also a big believer that balance doesn't necessarily have to happen on a daily basis, especially when you're talking about even food. But like anything. Like, you may not get every single food group perfectly in one day, and that's okay. Like, you may not eat seafood to get omega 3s every day. That's fine as long as you're gonna like, eat it. Throughout the course of variation. I think balance is a thing that changes day to day. So that's been helpful not to hold myself to the standard of like, every single health thing must happen at this exact time, every single day.

Yes. Today I'll have my water and I'll meditate, I'll tap, I'm gonna do my yoga. And yeah, I know, it's ridiculous. That's such a good, freeing one.

Yeah.

To think of first off, because honestly, I look at the whole balance thing and it could make you crazy.

But I mean, that said, I do really try to follow a routine as much as possible. Not just for the scheduling aspect. It's much more about the mental stress, which is like, if I don't have a, a time and a place for everything, then when I'm cooking dinner, I'm also stressing about I need to do laundry and I've got to do the lesson plans for homeschooling and I need to like, make sure this kid's doing okay with this. So I keep like a pretty tight just framework that I go through every day. So that way I know that laundry's happening on like Wednesdays and Saturdays. I'm not stressed about it the rest of the days because it. I know that it's going to happen. And so that's been a big tool for me. It's just creating my own framework in which more so than just having to follow a schedule, it's just taking the mental stress away. When it's not that that things time to be Concerned with, like, I just won't focus on something until it's time, and then I have 100% of my energy to focus on it. So kind of, for me, like an average day, I would do like school and stuff with the kids in the morning, prepare breakfast, prepare lunch, all that. And then when they either nap or do quiet time or play outside, I would work in the afternoon and get like some laundry and that kind of stuff done. Although also along the lines of I don't do things for my kids that they can't do themselves. I only do my laundry and my husband's. The kids, even the little ones, even the four year old, they do their own laundry.

And the babies, that is amazing.

It's survival. They also do most of the dishes. Because I finally get a point. Especially with older kids, I'm like, I cook all the food in this house and I'm not giving that up yet because I love it. But I'm not doing all the dishes and all the laundry. That's ridiculous. I wear 18 of the clothes in this house and I use 1 8th of the dishes in this house. So we really do have. And so I'm not the only one, one with the schedule. The kids are involved in that as well. And that's made a huge difference in my stress level. Just knowing not only is everything going to happen, but I don't have to do every single thing all the time. And for our family, we made a decision that maybe probably won't work for every family, but that is that we don't do a ton of extracurricular activities just because, like, family meal time is really important to us. And having time with our kids is really important to us. And having them be responsible, responsible people, like members of the household, that's really important to us as well. So we don't want to book their schedule to where, like how my childhood was. I was running from activity to activity to activity to be like the perfect student and then coming home and falling asleep. We want them to be kind of engaged members of the household as well. And so that's been the really, the biggest key for me is just having that structure and having the kids involved so it doesn't all fall on me. And back to where we started. I think a lot of moms, it's so easy no matter what age your kids is to, like, try to take everything on yourself and just to want to do all this stuff because for one, yes, we can do it better. That's true. But, like, you would know I'M sure in business you can't do everything yourself. And if you let other people do things, you might. They might surprise you and be better than you at some of that stuff. So that's been a big mental shift for us last like five years.

God, such a gift for your kids, too. I look at this, I go, first of all, I love that line. Structure equals freedom. Like, giving your kids this, you know, whole framework now so they just know how to structure their days to get their stuff done and not stress about things is a gift that will serve them for their entire life. Like, I keep thinking you should write a parenting book, but not just for parenting. It really helps everybody in how they approach their life. Like, if someone else can do it, you shouldn't be doing it. That's a great business concept, right? Structure equals freedom. Great business concept. So it's like, whether you're running a family or a company, this is like, amazing. Just, they're just amazing tenants. It's really fantastic. And your kids are so lucky because they're going to come out of this and they're not going to get to college and go, I don't know how to do my wash. And, you know, I ate. I only ate popcorn and licorice today.

Right?

So which was my diet my first year of college was beer.

Oh, my gosh. I think I lived on, like, Cheetos and, like, sushi from the cafeteria. Like, it was. It was bad.

I mean, it's just disgusting.

You think about.

You're like, you know, really? Well, I. I hate to tell you, I ate popcorn and black licorice because.

They were fat free.

Right.

Well, I love that you love your avocados. That's a good tip.

I do. I've gotten over that whole thing. So back over to you. I'm going to just ask one more question, and that is about you. What is one thing you do every day that you feel makes a big difference in your life? Like, you wouldn't not.

Yeah, well, I will answer that. But first I also want to say, I want to give credit where credit's due, because when I met. I think it was about four or five years ago, you were one of the first people that's back in my heyday of, like, trying to do all the business stuff myself and run everything. And you were the one who was like, what are you crazy? Like, you can't. And I was already doing that with my household. I wasn't doing everything myself. But you're like, are you crazy? Like, you have to, like, have A team and inspire other people and have them on board. And that was a big mental shift. So I just want to give credit where credit's due.

Ah, and you were already doing it. You just, what you're doing with your family, all you had to do was transfer. That's why I look at, I go, gosh, all the stuff you're doing with your family is like, it's the best. It's like there's. They're the same principles. It's funny, you know, I, when I got a puppy, I went, well, these are the same principles as raising kids is what you do with your puppy. It's actually the same principles as what you do with your business. They all, you know, it's all just true.

At the end of the day, it's all about just all of us trying to be the best person we can and to be kind and love others. And I think that's what it comes back to. But so for my one thing a day that literally has made a huge difference in my life and it may not be like the most health related thing, although I think it is. Every morning I go through and make a list of 10 things I'm grateful for. And so that, that's the focus of the day where I start with everything. Because I think as a mom, as a business owner, or just as a person in general, like our attitude and our outlook frames so much of our experience and our success and everything we do in life. And so for me, just centering on that really helps. And even throughout the day, if I start getting stressed, like just coming back to and centering on the fact, like in today's world, we truly have more. Even those of us living on the tightest budgets have more than King Louis xiv, who was like the Sun King or then like Vanderbilt, who was the richest man in the world at the time and early, you know, at that time period. So we have so, so much to be grateful for. And certainly we all face challenges and I've faced my share of them. But at the end of the day, like, we can always, always find things to be grateful for. And I think that that's just a great place to start every day. It's helped me a time.

That's mine too. I totally get it.

I love it.

I'm with you now. I'm excited about this because we were talking. You have so much. You're just like a content machine. So not only are you homeschooling and making all the meals, you're also just a content generating machine. It's super impressive. And we were trying to figure out for everybody listening, like what is the thing that we should give everybody? And there were so many things I was like, oh my gosh. But when you mentioned that you have a guide to magnesium, I'm trying to remember what you called it. You're gonna tell me but everyone's gonna love this because it is one of the biggest questions I get asked when I'm doing Facebook lives and on Instagram is which type of magnesium. So we're gonna give you all this, Katie, I'm gonna have you explain it. But just so you know, go to jjvirgin.com forward/wellness mama. You're going to be able to get this for free. Tell them about your magnesium.

Yeah, absolutely. So it's called magnesium, the master mineral and it delves into all the different types of magnesium and how to find a good source and how to use use it correctly. And also there's some like really budget friendly ways that you can get magnesium on the cheap at home and how to make your own like beauty products that have magnesium. It's all in there and addresses all of it. So whatever budget you're on, whatever type, like whatever health problems, everything is all in there.

That is so cool because literally I do, I get asked pretty much every time I'm on Facebook live about which type of magnesium because there are all these different types and you use different types for different things. So you're going to get all that info and you are such a fact finder that I know this is going to be super good for everybody. So be sure to grab that again. JJ virgin.com forward/wellness mama and Katie, awesome having you and I want to have you back. So we have got to figure that out. We will get that scheduled because we just. Alrighty now after the break I'll be answering the listeners questions. So stay with me.

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Welcome back. This is the time where I answer a listener's question. And you know, I'm always coming. My social media sites, JJ Virgin Official on Facebook and JJ Virgin on Instagram are where I look the most. And I'm looking for questions that fit what I am talking about. And all right, so this was just kind of a lay down when Marla from Moreno Valley, which by the way is just down the street from my Palm Desert house and Marla says JJ trying to eat healthy but I'm on a budget help now. If you've been in my community at all, you know, I always kind of get on a rant about this because I believe and know for it to be true that it's cheaper to eat healthy and cheaper long run for your health to eat healthy than not. It's the processed food, the packaged food, you know that gluten free junk food, all that stuff, that's the stuff that's expensive. Today on the show, Katie and I talked about Butcherbox. I'll be sure to put that in the show notes. Remember, get those show notes. Jjvirgin.com wellness mama but butcherbox has been amazing as a great resource for inexpensive grass fed pastured produce. And they're adding in some wild fish here too. So that's one of my key things. I also love Thrive Market, another thing Katie mentioned, it's sort of like Costco meets Amazon Prime. So it's Costco prices for whole foods style organic GMO free food. So I do Thrive Market and I do my butcher box and then I go buy seasonal produce. And that is what's so key because you will spend a fortune buying produce out of season and it's not good for you. You want to eat seasonal, local and organic. So go to your farmer's markets, find those farmers, talk to them, find out how they're actually growing their stuff. Get the organic. Sometimes they will be doing things organically but they won't have it certified because it's more expensive. So just get to know your farmers so you know what you're getting. But that's one of the easiest ways to save money is to eat seasonal local and make sure you're doing organic for the foods where it really matters. And you can go to environmentalworkinggroup.org, it's EWG.org and find out what the latest Clean 15 and Dirty Dozen are. And make sure with the Dirty Dozen that you are buying those organic. That's really important. But that is one of the key things that Katie talked about today was eating seasonally. That is huge for saving money. So unprocess your diet, eat real food and eat local and seasonal and you'll save a bunch of money. All right, I want to do a little shout out of gratitude for the podcast review of the Week. It's from Jay Meadows and it's a five star review and Jay says JJ is very passionate about health and shares information we all need to know. She's like, oh, thank you so much Jay. And easy to listen to. Love the show. Thank you so much. I super appreciate that. And again, big ask from me is if you feel the same way, would you please jump on and leave a review? These things help a bunch, you know. Everyone wants to see if other people are checking it out before they make their decision to listen. So you by leaving that review can be changing a bunch of people's lives. Thank you in advance and I will see you next week.

That's all for this episode of the JJ Virgin Lifestyle Lifestyle show, which marks another step towards a healthier body and mind. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the show and we'll talk to you next week.

Hello listeners, this is Ann Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next reading read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment, whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, school, everything. You'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.