Hidden Food Additives Sabotaging Women Over 40 with Courtney Swan

Courtney Swan, welcome to Well Beyond 40.

Thank you so much for having me, JJ. I'm so excited to be here.

Well, I have been listening to a bunch of your stuff, and first of all, I think you're one of my sheroes. I just want to, like, celebrate you for being out here. You've been at this now for 10 years, 15.

How long? It's been 14 years if you count when I started Real Foodology. But at the time, it was just, you know, it started as just a blog and it was just something I did for fun.

Yeah. Now you're at the forefront of all of this stuff, which I will tell you, it still blows me away that Make America Healthy Again is political. Like, why is making America healthy again political? It's still, it's just dumbfounding to me that this would be an issue. But then a lot of things are dumbfounding to me.

I agree. So we could go down that rabbit hole. It's sad. Yeah, it's really sad. It's unfortunate because I wish— I'm begging people to just see the greater picture here, to zoom out, that a lot of what's happening right now is for the greater good of Americans. And my messages stay the same. This is what I keep telling people. Anybody that comes at me and tries to say, oh, you know, you're just a right Republican— actually, I, I've been a Democrat my entire life, and then Maha came around, I was like, okay, we're doing this. This has been my message for 14 years, and now I finally have a platform and an opportunity to make real change, to actually drive policy changes. And of course, why wouldn't I wanna be a part of that?

Yeah. And yet when you, I, I spend a lot of time over the last couple years, I think as soon as we could travel again internationally, I'm like, I'm out, you know, and I've been all over the world and it is never more obvious how screwed up our food supply is than when you leave the country and you go, wow, I'm able to eat everything I possibly like, anything I want over here and I feel great. And yet at home I'm eating totally clean, healthy, and I never quite feel awesome. And what the heck is going on? And yet we need policies for it. So 14 years ago, how did you get interested in all of this?

Yeah, so I— it actually starts back to childhood. So when I was growing up, my mom was what we would call a '70s granola crunchy hippie. You know, all the names that we put on them back in the day.

Where'd you grow up?

I actually grew up in San Antonio, but before I was born, my mom lived in Boulder for a long time.

Oh, okay. That fits.

Exactly. Which was the mecca for all of it. Right. And then my dad moved her to San Antonio when they got married. And so I grew up in a household where my mom was baking bread from scratch. She was making pasta from scratch, like she was just doing everything from scratch. She was buying organic before it was a thing. I was getting the, you know, the off-brand natural cereals back in the day while all my friends were getting Frosted Flakes and Froot Loops and all that. So at the time, I didn't realize how amazing that was. And I really did not. Say, did you want Pop-Tarts and you were mad? Oh, I was very mad. I had a best friend who was getting Burger King for dinner every night, and I would basically fight my mom on it every night and say, I want Burger King. And she loves to bring that up now because she's like, aren't you happy that I didn't let you eat that every night as a kid? And I am. I'm super grateful now knowing what I know now. So not knowing how good and amazing I had it, then I go to college and I find myself eating at, you know, the school cafeteria and it's, you know, Cisco Catering or whatever it is that they're using. And I'm doing the fourth meal at Taco Bell and I'm just eating all the stuff that I didn't eat when I was in high school because I largely ate all my meals at home and I gained weight. I became lethargic. I just started making connections with, oh my God, what I'm eating and putting in my body is actually making me feel really terrible. And it's— I'm having all these horrible negative effects that I had just never experienced before. And I found a book called You Are What You Eat. And it's what really just— it's what I consider to be my light bulb, like, aha moment where it just really connected for me, something very simple that we should be teaching people in school and we don't, is the connection between what you're putting in your body and how it feels you and how it quite literally feeds your cells and builds your entire body. And so from there, I just got really fascinated by nutrition and the study of the body and health. And I dug into every book I could. I found Mark Hyman, I found Michael Pollan, I found all these amazing thought leaders back then. And it made me so inspired that I decided to go back to school. And I got my Master of Science in Nutrition, and then I started Real Foodology. And like I'd mentioned at the very beginning, it was just a blog in the beginning. It was really just a hobby because I felt like I needed an outlet. I was like, I need an outlet just to get all this information out that I was learning about that I largely felt like the American people didn't know. And I was— as I was diving deeper and deeper into it, I started realizing all the corruption that was happening in our food industry. And I just felt so emboldened to share about it and just let the American people know what was happening.

Yeah, I remember, um, I guess this was around 2007. I was, I was on the Dr. Phil show as their nutrition expert, and they decided to take over a town in Texas, Elgin, Texas, or Elgin, Texas. Anyway, out way out there in Texas, and, uh, and I remember driving in and the only hotel in town was a Holiday Inn Express. And literally, like, you walked out to go to the pool at night, it was covered with, like, beetles and stuff.

Oh yeah.

And the nicest, like, to go out to the restaurant was Subway. I mean, this was like where we were, right? And so we're taking over this high school and they're gonna put in healthy food. And come to find out you can't just do that because of the food contract. Like, like that was my first glimpse of, oh, this is a way bigger problem than we realize. You can't just say, hey, let's have some healthy food, because all these food contracts are there and they're going to keep the food in there. And, and guess what? Those french fries are going to stay as the potato and— or as the vegetable of choice, and you're not going to be able to shift it. And I think people don't realize that this is like— the roots of this are so deep. And, you know, if we started to look at this whole thing, we took the food industry and we said, okay, you have to be totally transparent as to what's really going on. What do you think would be the most shocking thing for consumers to find out about it?

I think the most shocking one is also the most simple to grasp. And once you get it, you really start to understand is that just because something is on the shelf does not mean that it's safe or that it's really been vetted for. Unfortunately, we do not have— we actually, we do now and I can go into that. But largely we've had an FDA, a USDA that have been asleep at the wheel. Last fall, people can actually go and look this up and watch it on YouTube. Bernie Sanders had a hearing with the the FDA commissioner of the time. It was before our new one, Marty McCary. And he admitted to Bernie Sanders that they're behind the times. He said, we're about 10 years behind the research that the UK is behind. He was specifically talking about food dyes when it comes to that. But he said, look, we don't have the manpower, we don't have the funds and the ability to be able to, uh, vet all the stuff that we have in our food supply. And that's because we've allowed through, under the GROSS, which is generally recognized as safe, we have allowed about 10,000 additives into our food supply. And now you look at that alternatively in the EU, they allow around 300 to 400 additives depending on what country you're looking at. 300 to 400 versus 10,000 is a large leap. It's crazy. Yeah. And so I just think that just because it's on the shelf, people think, oh, well, you know, our government wouldn't allow that to be sold if it was actually harmful for us. And unfortunately, we are at a time where we're realizing that a lot of our food is harmful and that it should never have been there in the first place.

I mean, why wouldn't we just follow the EU's lead if we don't have the manpower and just do that?

I agree.

Simple, you know? And then you look at it and go, it's actually that 3,000, 300 to 10,000. Okay, that's frightening. But the other frightening part of that is, is something I was studying back when I used to, I used to teach this course called Overcoming Weight Loss Resistance, and one of the areas that could cause people to gain weight and become diabetic was obviously a toxic overload. And one of the scariest things is, especially when you look at these like generally regarded as safe, is they'll pull one ingredient out and test that, but they don't test that ingredient plus this ingredient plus that ingredient. And then what happens when these accumulate?

Exactly.

And so you look at it and go, okay, there's 9,700 ingredients that that they don't have in Europe that now are all that you're eating a bunch of them at once. Who knows what the heck is happening?

And you brought up a great point. Sorry, you brought up a great point. The compounding effect that I think so many people don't understand and they don't think about it because you're right, we haven't done any tests on what all of those do and how they accumulate on the body and then interact with each other. And it's quite frightening actually when you think about it.

Yeah, I remember hearing, and that, you know, 'cause everyone was talking about diabesity. Mark Hyman brought it, you know, coined that term, I think. And I remember reading in the NHANES study that it's not obesity that's driving diabetes, that actually what is happening is it's the toxic burden that's being stored in the fat cells. And it was only that if the toxic burden was high enough that it would cause the endocrine disruption to create diabetes. Which is a huge, huge thing that's really not talked about.

I agree. Yeah. And I think he also turned or he also coined that term obese— obesogens. Obesogens. That's what he was calling them, where those are those endocrine disruptors that are causing that overload on the endocrine disruptor or on the endocrine system. And these obesogens can be, you know, anywhere from toxic preservatives that are in our food, but they can also be, you know, the phthalates in plastic or BPS or, uh, PFASs that are otherwise known as phthalates that are plastic. Like, there's so many other things in our environment that could also be driving that obesity and the diabetes.

Let's go through some of them.

Okay.

And here's the thing, we're going to talk about some of the challenges and we're going to talk about solutions. So if you're listening going, this is not just like a, oh my gosh, there's actually solutions. So solutions are coming, but I think it's important to know some of the the basics, because one of the challenges I have is, okay, so, you know, again, spending time in Europe, you don't see people walking around eating ultra-processed food as they're walking across the street. You know, they actually sit down and eat real meals. We, I think it was in, in Spain, they were saying we eat like 20 to 30% of the food is, is ultra-processed. Contrast to 60 to 70% in the United States. I think it's unrealistic to say, hey, you're not gonna eat any processed food. I do think there's a difference between these ultra-processed, what I'd call dirty processed and some clean process, like, you know, some vacuum-packed lentils or something.

Yeah.

But what are some of the things that we should be absolutely looking for, like some disturbing ingredients that could be hiding in like just some of the everyday things we might be buying?

Yeah. So I would say the biggest offenders for me are these artificial preservatives and stabilizers and thickeners that we see because we don't actually need any of these. A lot of these are simply there, not a lot. All of them are simply there for the food companies to make profit. They want these products to be able to sit on the shelves for long periods of time, and they want them to look perfect and pristine every single time. So you have these stabilizers that, um, and emulsifiers where if you have, you know, fat and, um, water or something in there and it will separate, they don't want that to separate. So then they'll put it in to stabilize it or emulsify it so that it looks just like pristine and beautiful, which to me is kind of crazy how we got into this place where we just want everything to look exactly the same, pristine and perfect. 'Cause that's not how foods exist in nature. It's crazy. So that's a really big one for me. So those will look like BHT is a preservative that they use. A stabilizer or an emulsifier would be mono and diglycerides. I'm trying to think of some other examples. I could look some more up. I'm forgetting some of the names of the other ones, but usually it will say in parentheses, emulsifier, preservative, stabilizer. Any of those, I always make sure I put that back on the shelf. Another really big one is artificial colors. Which is one that we are largely getting rid of in the next couple years in our food system. But, you know, that looks like red number 40, yellow number 5, blue number 6, things like that. They don't serve any sort of nutritional purpose whatsoever. They're just there for aesthetics, just to make it look bright and again, perfect, beautiful. But why do we need to be dyeing all of our stuff? And what's crazy to me is that we're finding food dyes in salad dressings, pickles, they're in marshmallows. Like, why are we dyeing marshmallows? Wouldn't they just be white. When I make marshmallows at home, they're already white.

You make marshmallows?

I, I do.

How do you make a marshmallow?

You get gelatin and, um, vanilla and sugar, and then you just whip it until it becomes this kind of like gelatin-like texture. It's amazing, and it's really good, and they're super good for your skin.

Really? Yeah, make it with allulose instead.

Oh, I bet you could. Yeah, I've never tried it, but I'm sure that you could.

That would be incredible.

I know, that's a good idea.

Wow. I was at, total aside, we were at, down in Miami last week and we went to Leila Sentner's house for dinner and she had her chef made this dessert with cottage cheese, almond flour, monk fruit. I switched it over to RX sugar and then apples. And I'm like, oh my, it tasted like tiramisu. And now I've been on this like obsessive tiramisu cottage cheese trend. I'm like, Tim's like, okay. Stop it. But like marshmallow, I never would think of making a marshmallow. That's, that's pretty amazing. Yeah.

And you can look the recipe on up online. I mean, there's a little bit of a learning curve with making 'em because if you mix 'em too fast, too quickly, then it does this weird kind of like texture thing. But you can usually get it after 2 goes. Huh.

And then it's okay. What do you do with those marshmallows?

You, I mean, I put 'em in like my coffee in the morning sometimes, or I'll just eat them as like a little snack cuz I do them like super low sugar. Mm-hmm. And I don't do 'em all the time, but like if I feel inclined to make them, like during the winter is usually when I find myself wanting to make them. I've used them to make like Rice Krispie treats before, like once or twice. I don't really eat those very often, but they're just kind of like a fun little dessert. You can have them with berries and have them as a dessert.

Oh yeah, fun. Yeah. Got to try the RX Sugar part.

Okay. Good idea.

I know anything I can do, like I switch over to allulose, I'm on it. What about like food label claims? What? Because I'm always amazed, you know, they'll put natural, they do all these things. They'll put like green and grains and make it look like, you know, it's it's all this healthy stuff when it's not. But what are some of the things that are just like manipulative, outright lies? Like, how can we go and decode in the grocery store what's really going on?

Yeah, so we call that greenwashing. And what's happening there is these brands— I think people don't fully grasp the fact that the front of the package is just a billboard. It's really just an advertisement for the company. And what I have found is that the more words that they have on the front, generally the more they're lying in the back. So it'll be, you know, natural, low fat, low sugar, da da da da da, you know, all these different things. To me, majority of the time, those are all red flags because usually you'll turn it around and you'll see, you know, inflammatory oils in there. You'll see canola oil, you'll see some of these stabilizers, emulsifiers. It's so crazy to me. Like I'll see on a package sometimes it'll say no artificial ingredients and then I'll turn it around and it'll have, it'll still have like preservatives in there. And for some reason they're not, they're not tagging that as an artificial ingredient. I, I really—

How do they get away with that?

I don't understand. I think it's because there's not a ton of regulation that's happening for the front of the packages. There's a few words that they regulate, like USDA Organic, for example, that is federally regulated. If you were to put USDA Organic on your package and it wasn't actually organic, like you could have jail time or have really big fines for that. But a lot of these words are just not actually regulated. So like natural, for example, right? Any company could just write natural on the front. And then they can put whatever ingredients they want in the back. So I always remind people that no matter what, you always, always, always want to read the ingredients. I don't care how good it looks on the front. I don't care if there's rolling green pastures and chickens on the front. I mean, I, I've seen the craziest stuff, and then you'll turn around, you'll read the ingredients, and my jaw's on the floor half the time because I'm like, what? There— this is rolling pastures with chickens on the front, and like, how does this have, you know, fake meat and canola oil in it? So I just always tell people, read the ingredients. And my, my easiest hack for, uh, because I'm similar to you, I'm a realist and I don't think that there's a world in which we're never gonna be eating anything out of a package. I mean, we're busy. I need convenient food sometimes. So what I look for is just if you could technically, so if you're reading those ingredients and if you could technically buy all those ingredients in the grocery store, so you recognize all of them and you're like, oh, I know where almond flour is. I know where allulose is in the grocery store. I know where rosemary, whatever it is in there. If you know where you could buy all those ingredients and you could technically make it at home if you wanted to, then that would be something where I would say that would be fair game to buy. Where we get into issues is Cheez-Its, for example, or Fruit Loops. They have something called BHT in there, which is a preservative that I'm very concerned about 'cause there's concerning links to colon cancer. You would look at that and go, I literally have no idea where I would buy BHT. Where is BHT sitting in the grocery store? It's not 'cause they get it, you know, from a factory. So that would be an example of something that I would say put it back on the shelf and find an alternative that's similar to Cheez-Its that doesn't have all those nasty ingredients in it.

What are some of the other, like, worst offender ingredients, especially for things like, you know, this audience is peri- and postmenopausal. So things that would cause like weight gain, inflammation, any of that.

Yeah. So I think gums are really tricky one. I'm not inherently against them all the time. There's a couple of things that I will buy that has, for example, xanthan gum in there.. But I really, especially for women, if they're dealing with bloating and a lot of gastric upset, I always tell people, cut the gums out and you'll probably see a big difference. And that'll look like gellan gum, xanthan gum, and you'll see them in a lot of places. They're anywhere from non-dairy milks, they'll be in salad dressings, they'll be in soups. Sometimes they'll be in, you know, like I find them in tortillas sometimes. And I don't think, according to the research, in very small amounts, things like xanthan gum are okay. But if you're eating them a lot, and those can really add up quickly, like if they're in your tortillas and your, non-dairy milk, and then they're in your salad dressing. Like, you know, you just start adding up and then the compounding effect can happen. So those would be one that I would really look out for. Another one that leads to a lot of inflammation is these, you know, everybody's talking about seed oils right now, but let me give some context about it.

I know I was going to ask the seed oil question. We did have Cate Shanahan on.

So, yes, yes. The reason why they are so concerning is because we went from essentially not having them at all in our diet to around 20% of Americans' calories are now coming from these seed oils. And we've— 20%?

20%.

It's crazy. And we went— if you look at the graph, I mean, about— I don't know exactly when, but I think it was about in the '70s when they created canola oil. So if you look in just that small amount of period of time where we essentially switched all of these healthy fats and oils that we were using before for these seed oils. So seed oils will look like canola oil. It'll also look like vegetable oil, rapeseed oil. Those are all canola oil, but they'll be labeled differently on a package. There's also cottonseed oil. Corn oil, soy oil, grapeseed oil, and sunflower oil. Those are kind of the biggest offenders that you really want to avoid. Now, here's the thing. If you're eating out, chances are most restaurants are probably cooking with canola oil or a mixture of maybe avocado— or sorry, a mixture of olive oil and canola oil. Again, I'm a realist. I believe in community and being with your friends and going out to eat. So there are some times where you're probably going to be exposed to them, and I'm not super worried about that. Where I'm really worried about it is 20% of your caloric intake coming in in with these seed oils. So control the controllables. Don't buy them at home. If a recipe calls for canola oil, replace it with butter or replace it with avocado oil. Um, I love olive oil. I love coconut oil for baking. Um, beef tallow. We strictly make our steaks here in beef tallow. Yeah. And this is largely what Americans were eating up until we replaced all these fats with canola oil.

And there's so much phobia around beef tallow.

It's crazy.

I know.

Crazy. And there's beef tallow fries that are like my favorite thing in the entire world. Oh my gosh. Literally just had them yesterday at this restaurant here in Boulder and they Amazing. They're so good. Um, so yeah, and, and let me give a little bit more context too, because there is— there's just— there's some nuance there with the seed oils and why they're so inflammatory. So this is very basic nutrition stuff. So what we learned in school is that you want your omega-6s and omega-3s in a ratio, and you want them in a 4:1 ratio. And what's happening right now with these seed oils is that Americans are consuming anywhere between 15:1 to 20:1 in a ratio. And when that ratio is so skewed off, what happens is that it causes inflammation in the body. So are they inherently the worst thing ever and they're poison? I don't believe that if they're coming from sources maybe like sunflower oil, but it's more about this offsetting of the inflammation. And then not to mention, a lot of it is in the processing. Like, personally, I will not touch canola oil. I don't think it's like a real oil. If you look at the rapeseed oil, is genetically modified seed that it comes from in the first place. And then if you watch on YouTube and how they make it, it's like a 12-step process, and apparently so rancid smelling that they have to deodorize it and bleach it in order to even make it palatable. So to me, I just, I see that and I'm like, this is an industrial oil. Like I wouldn't wanna eat this or buy it or consume it. So that's why you wanna be avoiding things like that.

What about, you know, I just recently was super excited about a protein bar because of the grams of protein in it. Didn't assumed, and I know what they say about assumed, but I did, I assumed because of who was selling it, that it must be clean, didn't really scrutinize it, got it, and went, oh my gosh, sucralose!

Was it the David bar? I wasn't going to say any names because I had the exact same experience with that particular—

okay, you made that boo-boo too? Because I was like, okay, hold on, it's like, it's Peter Attia, it's Andrew Huberman, it's Andy Galpin, it's like, are you kidding me? Or, or Lane Norton. Like, well, I know Lane likes artificial sweeteners.

He loves them. Yeah.

And I I, and I keep going.

I was bummed about that one because a lot of people that I respect in the health and wellness world really push those bars. I heard from somebody that they, they did a little swaparoo and it used to be a different, I think it might've been monk fruit before, but I can't 100% confirm that.

You can't get it to 30 grams. So I have a 20 gram protein, protein bar. I'm reformulating everything right now. Protein bars are the hardest thing to make.

I can imagine.

To not get moldy, to like, they're just, it's so difficult. And then to have clean ingredients and then you're competing against these bars that are a dollar. That have a bunch of garbage in them. So I was like, oh, I'm so appreciative they're putting this together. This will solve the problem. But I then went to my, um, manufacturer. He goes, you cannot possibly do this without artificial sweeteners to get that level of protein.

Really?

Yeah.

Is it a taste thing? Why is that?

I don't know. I don't know.

Maybe it's to keep the calories into a certain place and the protein—

it was the protein to calorie ratio. Um, that they were trying to hit, which they hit. They taste great. But then, and, and I was in, I was in complete, didn't pay any attention until someone brought it up and I went, oh, I just never dawned on me that this could be in there.

I know. And let me share with your listeners why sucralose is so concerning to me. So sucralose is also known as Splenda. And there was a study that came out a couple years ago finding that is a genotoxin. A genotoxin means that it damages our DNA. So that's why personally I avoid things like that. I avoid aspartame. I won't touch. What's the other one? Aspartame. Why am I totally broken up?

Phenylalanine. Oh, it's Ace-K. Ace-K. Yeah. Yes. Ace-K. What else is there?

Sucralose. There is that phenyl something, but I don't remember how to pronounce that one or what it is.

But I mean, basically artificial sweeteners. I think we can just blanket say it just— and, and what really doesn't make sense to me with the artificial sweeteners is we have amazing alternatives. I know. And especially when you look at allulose, that actually is therapeutic and helps you. Like, why would you do it?

And for the gum, it drives me nuts. All these gums have either the Ace-K or super low— or sorry, they have Ace-K or aspartame is the ones they use. Xylitol is actually amazing for your teeth. So I don't know why they won't just use xylitol. I love xylitol, but yeah, it's maddening.

Yeah. Although we manufactured years ago a xylitol brain gummy. Xylitol in small amounts is amazing. Eat too many of those brain gummies. I was like, oh my gosh, this is the stinkiest room of practitioners. Because it was like, okay, everybody stop eating these. They can be pretty disruptive.

Really funny.

So So someone listening to this, okay, now they're going to go grocery shopping. And I know you're going to give everyone your grocery PDF, but I think I'd love to switch into some solutions. I do want to make sure we talk, talk about what's happening in the Maha Movement too. But someone, let's just take someone. All right. Now they're going to the grocery store. If they were going to make one big shift in their cart, what's like the big ones that they could do?

Um, really, let's give them 3 things they could change in their cart. Okay, well, first of all, I would see how little amount of packages. So I actually play— I play a little bit of a game with myself now to see how many— how, how much real food I can get in my cart without not putting a ton of packaged goods, you know. And so actually, when I'm grocery shopping, the majority of my cart looks like fruits, vegetables, steaks, maybe some chicken. Uh, let's see what else. And I'll maybe have like a bag of chips or like a bag of tortillas or something, depending on what I'm making that week. So I would challenge people to get in the kitchen and cook more, you know, and hopefully a lot of your listeners do that already. But, you know, if it seems like daunting or that you're gonna mess it up or that you're not a great cook, what I remind people is we also live in this really amazing time of information and all you have to do is go on YouTube or on Instagram. All my favorite creators make these amazing recipes and they're like 20-minute recipes. It's not like you're gonna be in there doing a whole Martha Stewart, you know, 4-course meal. Like they can be really simple. Stuff. And then I would say the packages that you're buying, like I said earlier, and you'd mentioned this too, buy the clean process packages. Like, make sure that these packages really are just simple, whole, real food ingredients that you actually recognize. Because largely the issue that we're dealing with and why we're having so many, so many health issues is that people are largely just not eating food anymore. We're eating everything from packages. Everything is coming from a box and a bag and from plastic. And a lot of them have all these additives and everything in there that we, we shouldn't be consuming anyways. So I would just say, um, challenge them to buy more whole real foods, cut out those additives that we've got already gone over, and challenge yourself maybe to cook a little bit more at home.

We cook at— when we're home, because we travel half the time, we cook every single night, and we have got it down. Like, Tim's in charge of protein. Yes, I'm in charge of vegetables. And it's like, we, this is an under 30 minutes situation and mine's usually in about 10 to 15. It's like we've got it down.

Yeah.

And then we just make extra so that we have lunch the next day.

That's amazing. That's usually what we do in my house too. Hector's always on the steaks. I love it.

Yeah. The guys get the grill. I'm like, I got nothing over there. But he's also become like the master air fryer too.

Oh yeah. The air fryer is great. That's also a great tool if people have access to that. But be careful, don't get the Teflon coated ones. I have one from Our Place that's a non-toxic one and it's amazing.

Yes. Yes. That's, uh, that was our first thing is we didn't know, we did not know about Our Place to Start, which I think is what a great resource that is.

Yeah, it really is. But yeah, and I just wanna say one more thing too. I think, you know, in this country we've really overcomplicated it. We've made it, we've made it really confusing. We've made it hard to navigate all this. But, you know, ask yourself just really simple questions like, what have our ancestors thrived on for millions of years before we had, you know, all these studies and the scientific research? And, and look, I'm not saying that I don't believe in science. I think the studies and the research is amazing. Amazing. But we've also gotten to a place where we've inundated everybody so much with it that now everybody's confused. Now everybody's like, I don't know what to eat. Are eggs good? Are eggs bad? Is red meat bad? Is it good? Just ask yourself, what did your ancestors eat? What did they largely thrive on? Produce. So fruits and vegetables, maybe some grains. I personally don't really eat a lot of grains, but if you feel good on rice and stuff like that, then, you know, great. Meat, butter, eggs, just really simple stuff. And we don't have to overcomplicate it. And, and anytime that you're questioning and you're confused, just think, what have humans eaten since basically the dawn of time? And that's really what I use.

It's the best, best way to look at this because honestly, we start to major in the minors and quite often I'll see people so concerned about the lectins and I'm like, but you aren't even getting enough protein in. Like, and you haven't even eaten enough non-starchy vegetables and fiber, and you're worried about this thing over here, right? I know. Like, let's, let's focus on the big rocks. And if you focus on those big rocks, a lot of that stuff goes away. How long do you see, like, someone making a shift, kind of now aware of how this has infiltrated their pantry and their freezer, and they, they make the shift? How quickly do people start to notice feeling better, and what types of things would they notice?

Okay, so this is a great question. I actually got to witness this with my fiancé when we moved in together, because when we first met, he was what I would consider kind of the more— he wasn't like fully eating the standard American diet, but he was kind of in the middle where it was like he thought he was eating really well. He was exercising all the time. He's drinking his protein shakes, this and that. But he just didn't fully understand. Like, he wasn't looking out for, you know, all these ingredients and buying a lot of stuff in packages. And when we moved in together and I started cooking for him every night, and he was just largely eating, you know, steaks and fruit and vegetables and just the, you know, the whole real foods that we've been talking about. I mean, I would say within like 2 weeks, but almost immediately what he started noticing is that he wasn't that bloated after meals and he started feeling really good. Like he just started telling me all the time, I will never forget this. He would like run around the house and be like, God, I feel so good. Like, I never, I didn't know I could feel this good. And it was so cool to witness that because, you know, as someone like myself who started digging into this almost 20 years ago, like, I forget kind of what it was like when I first started making my changes. And so to see that again through his eyes has been really cool and super fun because he just, he would always say to me, you know, and he still says this sometimes where he'd just be like, God, Courtney, I just, I never knew that I could feel this good. I have so much energy. I'm not bloated anymore. I just feel like, like cleaner and not so like heavy and like weighted down. And, you know, and it's not like he hasn't even really like, I mean, he's lost maybe, maybe like 5 pounds. It was never about weight for him. It is just, he physically feels the difference in his body. Like, he's like, I don't feel as heavy and inflamed as I once did. And I think that's what largely a lot of people start to realize. And then you— in my opinion, I think this is a healthy addiction— you get kind of addicted to that feeling really good, and then you just want to keep going, and you want to keep eating the healthy foods and, and eating the foods that make you feel like you're thriving.

Yeah, I, I've always felt that the majority of people have no idea what it feels like to really feel good between the sugar and the, you know, like, well, I, I love caffeine, but overcaffeining, and then they have sugar, then they have alcohol, then they get back up and overcaffeine, and, you know, it's just like round and round, and you don't have any idea what it feels like. And if you could just have that for a week, you'd never go back.

You would never go back. I mean, I've been doing this for almost 20 years, and I could never go back. You know what, you just, you touched on something that I did want to talk about too, because you asked me biggest offenders and I, for some reason, this just completely blanked on me. One of the largest things that I look for is sugar. And I know it seems like you do too, because you talk a lot about allulose. My favorite is monk fruit. I also have allulose that I love to use, and sometimes I'll use a little bit of stevia, but that's actually probably before anything else. So outside of, I read the ingredients first, and then the second thing I do is I look at the nutrition label and I see how much sugar is in there. Because sugar is hiding in everything now. It's in our peanut butters, it's in our non-dairy milks, it's in soups, it's in salad dressings. Like it's in places that you would never— I mean, I picked up a package of beef jerky at the airport the other day and this small, maybe 2-serving package of beef jerky had almost 30 grams of sugar in it. And I was horrified. Wow. It was crazy. So things like that where you just, you wouldn't expect it to be in there. And so I always tell people this, that I love to have my sweet treats. I love to have a dessert. I love to have, you know, a couple pieces of dark chocolate or a little bit of ice cream after dinner, you know, something like that. If, if I haven't had a ton of sugar throughout the day and you want to save your sugar for those times where it actually really counts, you don't want to be counting, you know, you don't want to be going over your sugar threshold in salad dressings and soups and things that you would never even realize if you took it out. So take it out of your yogurt. Yogurt is another really big offender. Get unsweetened yogurt and add a little bit of monk fruit in there or some berries. And then you don't have to get loaded with sugar in your, in your breakfast or whenever you eat your yogurt. So things like that where I think people would notice a huge difference where if you're just buying the unsweetened versions, buying the salad dressings that don't have the sugar, you will automatically reduce your sugar intake by so much and you won't even realize it because you won't feel like you're depriving yourself.

Yeah, that's such a good point. I literally When I wrote The Virgin Diet, the number one question I got asked afterwards was like, they couldn't get rid of their sugar. And I've never had a sweet tooth. So I was like, you know, my, I was raised, I'm adopted, my adopted mom, horrible sweet tooth. So if it had been training, I was raised on Pop-Tarts, Captain Crunch, you know, dessert every night after dinner. And at 12 I rebelled and I wouldn't touch any of it. So when I heard this, I'm like, okay, let me— I want to take all you big sweet tooth people and figure this out with you. And literally, I did a 2-week where I just had a 1-week taper, and then we took them off of everything. I mean, even lower fructose all the way down, everything. So they just— and started putting in a lot of sour because that takes your sweet tooth away. And just, it just went through it. And literally, at the end of 2 weeks, when they started to taste the things they used to eat, it was like, uh, Yuck. And so that's what we really have to get to, because it's just like being at a concert and the music's really loud and you walk out and you're talking loud. You just got to resensitize yourself. And we're just— we've just been desensitized, and it's just ridiculous. My mom, literally growing up, would take strawberries and throw a bunch of sugar on them. I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you sugaring the sugar?

You know, I know. I remember somebody in my family— I don't remember who it was, but somebody in my family did that too. And I— yeah, it's horrifying. Yeah, that's the thing. And you asked earlier too what people could expect, you know, pretty quickly. I don't remember. There's a time frame actually that we could look up, but I know that there's a time frame that's been clocked that it takes X amount of time. Is it 7 days maybe to change your palate? So if you can just get through that 7 days of, you know, retraining your palate, a lot of those ultra-processed foods and maybe the fast food and the super sugary stuff that you once loved, they won't taste good to you anymore. I mean, I have a perfect example of this. So I was at a a movie last year. It was— I go to the film fest every year in Telluride, and they were handing out free candy like before the movie started. And they— somebody handed me a box of Reese's Pieces, and I remember looking at them going, oh my God, these are my favorite as a kid. I kind of just want to try one right now because I haven't had one since I was 13 or 14. So I eat one. I almost spit it out. I was like, uh, like, ew, what? This tastes so gross to me. And I remember as a kid I loved them so much, and I couldn't even— I couldn't even eat one of them because they tasted so like not real to me.

Yeah. Yeah.

And your palate really changes. And so you start craving and desiring these more whole real foods, which is—

so what is really amazing is, um, you've been at this now 14 years and now you're in the epicenter of all of this stuff going on, which must be thrilling.

It's very exciting.

Like, yeah, very exciting. I, when I first heard last year, we have a, a health Health Business Growth Collective group of all the health practitioners who are really out there doing books and podcasts and stuff. And we get together once a year, big event. And our last year was a revolutionary theme, and Mark Hyman was the last speaker. And we had him come out with a big— he had a— I think it was Make Food Healthy Again or Make America Healthy. He did something around that. We had different signs about this, but it was so at the early stages of it before all the weirdness came up with like it being I still am like, how is health political? Like, how could this be? You know, I'd love to get some insights into what is going on, where people might be able to lean into this, you know, etc.

Yeah. So we're, in my personal opinion, in one of the most exciting times of my lifetime. I mean, like I mentioned earlier, everything that I've been talking about and that I've been fighting for, for our food system and for our country is now finally being talked about on a political stage. And why that's important and why we shouldn't politicize this is because this, uh, is all with the best interest of Americans at heart. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. It— my personal opinion is that I literally do not care what politician or who is pushing this through as long as it gets pushed through, because ultimately we will all benefit from this. Um, there's really exciting things happening. I mean, we have, you know, Bobby Kennedy, who for some reason has become such a polarizing figure, but I remember 8 years ago, everybody loving him. And he was the darling of the environment because, you know, he got the chemicals out of the river. And with DuPont, he got DuPont chemicals out of the Hudson River. And he was on the litigation team for against Monsanto when the guardskeeper got non-Hodgkin's lymphoma from using glyphosate. So, and to me, glyphosate is like one of the things I'm most passionate about. And so for me, like, he's been a hero for so long. And if you look back at his track record, He has always been fighting for the American people against corporations and against the poisoning of American people. And to me, that's all I really care about. So at the end of the day, like I said, I really don't care who's pushing this through as long as things are getting done. There was an announcement being— or there was an announcement made 2 weeks ago with Bobby Kennedy of the HHS and Marty Makary of the FDA. I was actually standing on stage behind them when they made this announcement that they are removing food dyes from our food system. Now there is some rumors circulating online of people saying, oh, this is not actually a ban, they're just asking them to do it and they're not actually going to be forced to do it. And the reason that people are saying that is because when Bobby made his announcement, he said, look, we have already spoken to these large food companies, they have agreed to do it, and because they have agreed to do it, we're not actually putting in a full place ban yet. But he said, if we need to and these companies pull back later and they decide they don't want to, then we have the means necessary in order to fully push that through. But right now, we want to come to an agreement where everybody's doing this on their own accord. Now, the reason why they did that is because essentially what he was saying is that we can do this literally right now. Like, these companies can say, we're going to agree to this and we're going to pull them out by 2026. Or if they have to go through all the red tape and go through the voting and through Congress and everything, it's going to be upheld in the courts for years. So essentially what's happening is that these food companies are saying they're going to agree to do it. PepsiCo has already agreed to do it. Tyson also disagreed 2 weeks ago, I believe, or no, they announced maybe a week ago that they're removing all artificial dyes from their food by May, I think is what they said. Oh wait, no, not May. May. I think they said May. We got to look this up actually. Wow. Because I'm like, it's already May.

So they have packages out.

I know. So I actually— but they said something in a very small timeframe, I remember. But now I should flip this out.

You know, once a couple big companies do it, they all have to do it.

Well, so that's the other thing is that once a couple of these companies are doing it, they're going to be forced to. Plus, what a lot of people don't understand is that West Virginia just banned them. So they're no longer going to be allowed in West Virginia. There's also 26 other states that currently have legislation out and they— it's looking like they're also going to ban them. So essentially we're going to have 26, 27 states that have already banned them. Now these food companies are looking at, okay, so I'm going to have to make no food dyes food for these states and then the ones with the food dyes in the state. I mean, it's a logistical nightmare for them. So they're going to be forced to do it regardless. So the people that are pushing back saying, oh, it's not a ban, they're not actually going to do it. I mean, they're, they're, they're literally going to be forced to. And essentially all the FDA was saying is we can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way, and we prefer to not do it the hard way. So let's all come together and do it the easy way. So that's really exciting.

That's actually even more powerful than having to force them to do it.

I agree. Well, and you know, Bobby brought up actually a great point when he was on stage. He said, look, I sat down with these CEOs. Many of them have children and many of them are starting to get concerned. So I understand, like, and you know, if anybody's listening going, oh, we can't trust the food companies, like, I hear you. I have been literally advocating and championing against big food for the last 14 years. And in my opinion, they could not be like a larger enemy. So I get it, but I'm also giving them the benefit of the doubt that now we are— one, like, they're feeling the pressure of it from the public, but also they're starting to understand and realize, oh wow, maybe these are a bigger deal than we thought and they are affecting our children. And now they're starting to get concerned too. So I would like to give those people the benefit of the doubt. Now here's the thing, talk to me in 4 years and if none of this has changed, then I will be back on my soapbox yelling about Big Food and really upset. But in the time, you know, right now it looks like things are really getting done.

This is amazing. Well, you brought it up. I don't know how we could do this interview without talking about glyphosate.

Oh, yeah. We have to talk about that.

We have to talk about it because what I'll tell you is, you know, I wrote The Virgin Diet and what the reason that I wrote this was I was looking at a lot of food sensitivity testing and teaching for a testing company, and I saw the same foods keep showing up. And I thought, why are you making this hard elimination diet when the same ones— and it was gluten was causing the issue with leaky gut, and sugar of course was causing some of the issue, but it was, it was dairy, eggs, corn, soy, peanuts, and, and then of course gluten and sugar. And what I realized when I pulled the foods out— and I always looked at this now, I go, was it the gluten or the glyphosate? Yeah, was it the corn, soy, gluten, right? Or was it like— and was it all of that, or was the fact that it's really hard to eat, um, ultra-processed foods? If you pull all those foods out, you, you can't eat them. So it accomplished a lot of things at once, but that has always been one of the underlying things, is it's also a way to get the glyphosate out of your diet. So let's, uh, let's talk about why glyphosate is such a massive concern.

Yeah. And I want to touch on what you just brought up because this is something that I'm personally very invested in because I was also affected by this. So I was diagnosed about 14 years ago, like right around when I created Real Foodology, with a gluten intolerance. And I have been gluten-free ever since. And it started me on a similar journey as yours where I was starting to look at all the other foods because at the same time my doctor had said, okay, we want you to avoid corn and soy as well. And the reason this happened was because I was having these debilitating stomachaches after every meal. I would literally be in a fetal position like, oh my God. Like, it was horrible, horrible. And I started questioning, okay, what are we doing to our food? And then a couple years later, I found myself traveling to Europe a lot because I was working for a Swedish woman for 4 years. I would go on, on tour with her, and I was working as her nutritionist. And we were going around to all these other European countries, and we would be there for, you know, a month or two on end. And then I would come home and I would realize all of a sudden that I would be bloated again, I'd be sick again. And while I was in Europe, I could eat whatever I wanted. I think there's a couple of things happening there and we'll go— I want to talk about the glyphosate, but I do think that I'd be remiss to not also mention this too. I think part of what's happening with the gluten piece too is that we have hybridized our wheat so much in this country that it's become really high in gluten and it doesn't look like what our ancestors were eating because it's become so hybridized that it's a very different looking grain than it once was and it's way higher in gluten. So I think that's part of it. And then I also think it's because we're spraying glyphosate on wheat to, after harvest to desiccate it. Because it dries it out. Now, glyphosate, if your listeners are not aware of what this is, it's incredibly concerning. And it's probably to me the number one thing that I'm most concerned about. And I'm trying to get to Bobby about this, and I hope they're going to address it. It's an herbicide that's widely used on our food supply. It was brought here after the war. It has very concerning links to the chemical companies that were using very similar chemical compounds as nerve agents in World War II. And also the gas chambers. And it's very similar, similar chemical composition. It's also made by the same companies that were creating these back in the war. And so it just, it has a very, very insidious background. And what happened was they brought them to America, told the American farmers that they could just spray everything with glyphosate. It's not harmful, it's safe for us, it's safe for the plants. And what they found is that it killed everything. So then they go back to the drawing board and they say, okay, we're gonna genetically modify these seeds to withstand the glyphosate. Glyphosate. And what that looks like is corn and soy, for example, they can plant these plants, spray everything with glyphosate, and then the plants withstand the glyphosate and they can thrive, and then it kills everything else.

Well, what should be enough of an alert.

Thank you. I have been saying this forever. I'm like, how did we think that that was okay? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? And then we're eating that. We're eating that. And then on top of that, there's another concerning level to this. So not only are we eating these crops that are being sprayed by glyphosate, but then there's also seeds that have, um, since they're, they're meant to withstand the glyphosate, they have a little bit of glyphosate in the seed. And then there's also another one that we're planting called BT corn, and it has something called BT toxin in there. When I started researching this, I was really concerned because what I found was that BT toxin makes the stomach lining of the insects explode. Well, what are we dealing with now? And, and what happens is it puts little holes in their stomachs and then they explode eventually. So what are we dealing with right now on a large scale? Leaky gut syndrome. What is leaky gut syndrome? Little holes in the intestine. So I can't help but think that there's a connection there. And I've read that there are people, there's scientists that are theorizing this, but I don't know that we actually have studies to definitively say whether or not that it's happening. But I just— me, I'm like, where, where do we leave room for common sense to come into the room, right, with this kind of stuff? So we're consuming this. There's very, very concerning links to cancer. I mentioned that Bobby was on the litigation team earlier against Monsanto. Bayer, the large pharmaceutical company, actually came in and bought Monsanto in 2018. Monsanto is the company that created and started glyphosate, otherwise known as Roundup. Many people probably have Roundup in their garage. If you do, I would throw it away immediately. It acts as an antibiotic, so it's killing off all the good and bad bacteria in our guts. We know that it's an endocrine disruptor, so it's disrupt— disrupting our endocrine systems. Can cause infertility. It is also linked to cancer. It is by the World Health Organization's IARC, which is the International Agency for Research on Cancer. They have declared it as a probable human carcinogen, meaning that we pretty much know that it causes cancer. So it's highly concerning and it's in a lot of—

it's still around. I don't— I mean, it doesn't even make any sense.

JJ, you know what's really concerning too? It's because they are so powerful and they have so much money and they have many tentacles in in Washington. They're actually going state by state right now and looking for liability from getting sued. Um, I know the governor of Georgia just signed this last week. It was just on his desk that, um, in Georgia, if it gets— so I know he signed it and I believe it has to go through one more, um, signature. And then anybody in the state of Georgia, if they get cancer from glyphosate, they are not allowed to sue them. It's crazy. And they're going state by state right now looking for this liability. So if anybody wants to get more involved in this, um, wow, Glyphosate Girl on Instagram talks about this a lot. I try to get the information out as much as I can. We've been trying to get people to call. We, we were just hounding the governor's office for the last couple weeks, like calling, emailing, like, please don't sign this. It does not benefit the American people, but there's lies going around saying that it benefits the farmers. But let me tell you one more thing. It is really, really concerning because there's many links to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Farmers left and right are getting non-Hodgkin's lymphoma from using these chemicals on their farmlands. And what happens once they get the non-Hodgkin's lymphoma? Guess who also makes the drugs that they get to treat the cancer?

This is so sickening. I can't even believe this.

Bayer. Bayer makes the poison and they also make the— I don't want to call chemo cure, but the drug that they get in order to combat the cancer. So it's all connected. It's very insidious. And the fact that it's still happening is crazy. But it's because they have so much power and money in Washington and they're getting to these governors and these people in charge and saying, You know, the farmers need this because without this, the farmers wouldn't be able to feed the world. But I mean, there's so much more I could go into this if you want me to.

But biggest, biggest places that you would get exposure to glyphosate, I would— and this has always been my concern is, is that it gets into the soil and it gets into the water and then it can go, you know, into the organic crops as well. But it's gluten and soy and corn primarily, right? But then you have— I remember being at Expo West going to all of the different chicken manufacturers trying to find a chicken company that wasn't feeding their chickens corn and soy, and I couldn't find one. Could not find one that wasn't doing it. And so, you know, you are what you eat and you are what you eat ate. So you look at and go, what's— if you were looking to avoid glyphosate, what do you need to do?

Yeah, I mean, look, it's— I'm gonna share a couple things because I also, I don't want to scare people, so I have some solutions. But look, it has become so ubiquitous that we're finding it in rainwater, we're finding it in our drinking water. I think it's now 98% of Americans are finding it in their urine. Like, we all just— we've at this point, we've been exposed to it. So the best practices that you can do is buy organic or buy local from farms that you know are not spraying and using glyphosate. Now organic has its own flaws. Do I think it's the best system ever? No, because it's also, I think, corrupt in many ways, but it's the best shot that we've got as far as ensuring that it has not been directly sprayed with glyphosate, because by USDA organic law, they are not legally allowed to spray things with glyphosate. So if you're buying things that are organic, it's pretty much guaranteed that it hasn't been sprayed. Now it still is showing up in organic foods. So what I look for, For example, like oats. So oats is one of them that's very notorious with glyphosate. So are chickpeas, so are almonds. I look for a little stamp on there that says glyphosate residue free because a lot of these companies are going above and beyond and testing.

Wow, I didn't know there was such a thing.

Yeah, and I know a couple oat brands that are doing it now. I've seen some almonds do it. I've seen a bunch of brands doing this now. So that would be your best bet. But also, you know, if you have the ability— I mean, I lived in LA for 10 years and I was so grateful to be there and have access to so many amazing farmers markets. And I would go to the farmers and I'd say, do you use glyphosate? And you just got to ask and find out. So if you have the ability and option to do that, start asking and seeing if they're using glyphosate. And then I would say this too, look, I do— I never want to instill and create fear. My, my purpose and my prerogative is not to get people to live in a bubble. I don't live in a bubble. I mean, we have to live and love our lives and not be freaked out and anxious and live in fear all the time. I do not believe in living in fear because that's going to have a totally different effect on your body and your health. And you're also not going to enjoy life. So we do the best thing that we can. We control the controllables, which is what I always say. Make sure everything you're bringing into your home is as clean and healthy as you possibly can find. And then you got to just, you know, you got to live your life and give it to God, you know? And some of the things that I do outside of that is like knowing that my body is resilient. I sweat almost every day. I got my sauna this morning. I take binders when I'm in the sauna to make sure it really gets stuff out. Get your body moving. If you don't have the ability to get to a sauna, pour Epsom salts in a hot bath and make sure that you get it hot enough to where you are working up a bit of a sweat. That will get it out. And just simply exercising and getting your lymphatic system moving because our bodies can and will detoxify this stuff. It's just we have to be a little bit more on it because unfortunately all this stuff that we're being exposed to.

Yeah, I think saunas are probably the single— if someone was going to look at one thing to invest in, in their health, health, I think a sauna is the single most important one.

I completely agree. I completely agree. My fiancé has been dealing with horrible psoriasis for like 10 years and we've been doing all this different stuff and it has really started going down since he started using the sauna. It's crazy the difference we've seen.

Yeah. Wow. Are you using a— which type are you using?

So right now we're— so, well, okay, I have a Therasage here that he like refuses to use. So I have the one that just our head is out.

Yeah, we've got one of those too. I won't use it because my husband has so sweated it out. It's like disgusting. So I have a Sunlighten one.

So that's our thing too, is that Hector won't use it anymore because he's like, oh, like, you sweat too much in that.

You need your own personal one of those because it's—

it is. It's kind of gross.

Yeah, it's kind of gross.

I mean, you know, but we're moving soon. We're actually moving to Austin and we're getting a Sunlighten in Austin, but we didn't want to get it here and then have to move it again. So he's been going to Perspire and I think they have a Sunlighten there and that's just what he's been doing.

Yeah, I kind of live in my sunlight and sauna every morning.

It's amazing.

Tim was going in the— he has a relax, and I was like, you stay over there. Now he's been infiltrating my sunlight. I'm like— but I just was at Leila Sentner Center, and she has this sauna space. Now I have another. I was like, now I want another one. Yeah, it's, it's got all these lights and looked really amazing. So we'll see. That's cool. Saunas, I agree, that is I think the most important thing we can be doing is, is just getting this out, getting it out. Yeah, better out than in, right?

Exactly, exactly.

So you have one thing that will help people here too, along with the tips you've been giving. You have the PDF grocery shopping list, which is— I, I know when I tell people to go get stuff and then they say, I just spent 2 hours in the grocery store, and you're like, sorry. So So what's on the list and then I'll share how they can get it.

Yeah. So it covers everything that you would possibly have questions about as far as how do you navigate, like what eggs do you buy, what meat do you buy, what are kind of the specifications for that? I go a little bit over the glyphosate and organic stuff and processed packaged foods. If you're, if you're wanting to buy things in packages, just I go through, kind of outline the, the rules, quote unquote. I don't believe in really having rules, but you know, the guidelines to go through them. Um, and then it's super easy. It's a PDF that you can just bring with you into the grocery store. And so if you're at any point in the grocery store and you're like, what did Courtney say about that one thing on the podcast? You can very easily just pull this up in your phone and you can reference it and hopefully it will help all of you guys. Nice. And it's just all of my tips and tricks and how I educate and, and what to look for when you're buying stuff at the grocery store.

Good. Cuz we've just set the entire podcast up that they now are like, I gotta have that list. So that list will be at jjvirgin.com/grocery. Swan, are you keeping your last name or are you changing your last name?

That's a really great question. I'm, you know, we're talking about it right now because we both actually really like it and we might just, you might switch him to me.

Wow. I know.

What's his last name? Llamas. So it's llama with an S on the end.

Oh, wow. Well, I've got a llama sitting, a huge llama on my boat dock. I love llamas.

Oh, you do?

Wow. You could, it's, how funny that you're Swan and Llama.

I know. Isn't that cute? We're really leaning into that too for some of the theme in the wedding because we thought it was so cute. We're like, oh my God, we're both animals.

That is so cute. Well, we are, um, my husband's last name is Organ and mine's Virgin, so we leaned into that at our wedding as Virgin Organ, but it's a little different than Swan Llama.

I love that. That's so cool though. So did you just keep your last name for public stuff, or how did you do that?

I kept my last name because, because I, this is my, I have kids with another, another guy, my ex- husband, so I didn't want to change my last name for my kids. Plus, I've been JJ Virgin for so long. I get it, you know. So, and he didn't care. Yeah, like, it's his, it's his second marriage, it's my third marriage. It's like, for like, it's not, it's not our first rodeo. Would have been different for sure.

Yeah, I get that. Yeah, I'm just, um, I'm torn. I may, or we've talked about too, I just take his last name and I just keep Courtney Swan public because I've, same as you, I've had this name forever. I mean, I'm 40. I'm getting start on this a little late.

So I actually think, you know, if I'd waited longer, I would have made, you know, well, I made a great choice in the kids that I got, and my ex-husband's an absolute doll. But I think that, that, like, I couldn't even take care of a cat when I was in my 20s, you know. So I think putting it off is a good thing.

I definitely feel that now. I feel more, more than ever equipped to, like, actually have kids and and do all that.

So yay. Well, congratulations. Thank you. So for everybody listening, she's engaged. I just happen to know this because you're going to your bachelorette party in Miami.

Yes.

Have the best time. The weather's fantastic here right now.

I cannot wait.

Fun, fun. And thank you again. And I'm going to put everything again at jjvirgin.com/swan. We'll link to your Real Foodology— Real Foodology— that's hard to say.

I know. Real Foodology. Yeah.

Podcast. And some of the great episodes and to the list. And thank you again for taking time with me.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this.