Holistic Mental Health with Dr. Kelly Brogan

Hey, J.J. here. Can you believe how fast the holidays are knocking at the door this year? One minute it's pumpkin spice season, the next you're getting your guest room ready and wondering where their wrapping paper went. And that's when I turned to Wayfair. From bedding and towels to holiday decor and last minute stocking stuffers, Wayfair has everything you need to get your home and holidays together fast. And for way less. With Wayfair, I know I can refresh my guest room in no time. Maybe I'll add a soft new comforter or a few holiday throw pillows. With Wayfair, it's so easy and everything arrives super fast. Plus, there's free shipping for any order over $35 easy and total peace of mind. So whether you're hosting, gifting, or just adding those final festive touches, Wayfair has your back. And when the holidays wind down, Wayfair has everything you need to tuck it all neatly away. Smart storage solutions for every room from the kitchen to the closet. Get organized, refreshed and ready for the holidays. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Wayfair Every style, every home. That's W A Y-F-A-I R.com hey, it's JJ here. You know, I've been talking about environmental toxins forever, and laundry detergent is a sneaky one. A lot of them contain harsh chemicals like dyes, preservatives, and even UV brighteners. Those brighteners don't actually clean anything. They just coat fabric so your eyes think things look whiter or brighter. That's more chemicals I don't want on my family's sheets or skin. And if you've got sensitive skin or allergies around the house, this can be a big problem. That's what got my attention about Earth Breeze. It looks like a dryer sheet, but it's actually laundry detergent. You toss one in the washer and that's it. No pouring, no mess, and no heavy plastic jug. Their packaging is lightweight cardboard, which helps reduce plastic waste. And if you choose the fragrance free option, it's gentle, hypoallergenic, non irritating, and non sensitizing. I really like how simple it is and how fresh and clean everything comes out without those unnecessary chemicals. Right now you can try Earth Breeze for up to 40% off with free gifts@earthbreeze.com virgin that's earthbreeze.com virgin for up to 40% off plus free gifts on your first order cuando entras a Burlington.

Encuentras precios increibles irregalos geniales. Jeso es energia de protagonista porque and Burlington, los ahoros festivos nos unlo uni o que llama latencion descubria jazgos de calidar y regalos perfectos paratodos en tulista des de jugetes hijollas hasta nuevas marcas de. Hey, it's JJ Virgin. And welcome to the JJ Virgin lifestyle show where I give you the latest cutting edge intel to help you look, feel and think better. Now, today's show is all about depression, really, psych meds, what's going on with them, mental health mindset. And I've got someone who I just think is a hero out there in the field of mental health. She is being massively disruptive. Last year she came out with the book A mind of your own and literally she, she was black, you know, blackouted by the media because she's so disruptive and is basically telling people not to use psych meds and helping the toughest cases around through lifestyle interventions. So naturally I was super intrigued. And then I got the opportunity to meet her and hang out with her a couple of times, most recently at a functional medicine event. And I just love her story. You're going to hear how she went from being an Ivy League trained, very traditional psychiatrist to being a holistic psychiatrist and really what that means and how how she is just literally turning people's lives around and showing people how they can do this for themselves. So I'm really excited. As you know, that's kind of near and dear to my heart with a son with bipolar disorder and an adopted brother with schizophrenia. You know, the bottom line is all of our lives are touched here by mental illness. It's just, I think it's coming more out of the closet. It used to be that this was when I was growing up my schizophrenic brother, we weren't allowed to talk about it. And I think nowadays we recognize it for more of what it is, which is not some kind of choice illness. It's really, to me, no different than diabetes, heart disease or anything else. But the difference is between what we're taught is that this is something that you can take personal responsibility for your health and do something about. And you know how I feel about that. So I'm really excited to have Dr. Kelly Brogan on today. Let me tell you a little bit about her. She is the member of so many different organizations, teaches at so many different places, is on the board of so many different places like Green Med Info Functional Medicine University Pathways to Family Wellness, the New York State Perinatal association, the Price Pottinger Nutrition Foundation, Mind foundation, the Journal Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine, and the Nicholas Gonzalez Foundation. She's the medical director for Fearless Parent and a founding member of the Health Freedom of Health Freedom Action and a mommy of two and just brave and to go out and do what she's been doing for the last decade and, you know, get attacked and again blacked out by the media and just staying true to her message is really something. So I'm so honored to have Dr. Kelly Brogan with me today. All right, let's do it. Dr. Kelly Brogan, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here with me today.

Super excited to be here. Thanks, Jenny.

Well, I love your book A Mind of your own. You've been out there just being disruptive and it's a nice way to put it. Yes, I love it. But let's talk about because this is not typical. And you know, I've been to my share of psychiatrists having a son with bipolar disorder and it traumatic brain injury. So I have seen a lot of not holistic psychiatrists. And you know, so did you start this way, like what happened or was there a big aha? Tell us your story.

Well, I was absolutely one of those not holistic psychiatrists myself, totally dyed in the wool, conventional, you know, sort of Ivy league trained. You know, everything that I sort of was prescribed, I swallowed figuratively and literally. And I absolutely believe, believed, you know, the party line, that mental illness is something that you are born with likely. You know, if your aunt committed suicide or your uncle is schizophrenic, then that probably means that you're likely to struggle with similar issues. And I believe that, you know, these chemical imbalances emerge at a point of stress in your life. And after that time you really just have to take medication and there's no other option. I was specializing, interestingly in medicating pregnant and breastfeeding women. It's called reproductive psychiatry. And I did that, yeah, through my fellowship after my residency. So it was like a hyper specialization. And it was actually during that time that I became very aware of this concept of informed consent, which is basically, you know, how are we giving patients the best ability to make their own decision? Are we telling them everything that science has to offer in terms of the known benefits, the known risks and what are really the alternatives in terms of an evidence base. And so I became really interested in this concept. And it really wasn't until I developed my own health condition, which is of course the sob story that you'll hear from all of us turncoat physicians is that we really didn't delve into the nitty gritty of what we were taught until we bumped up against the ceiling of what conventional medicine has to offer because of our own health concerns. So it wasn't until I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis after my own pregnancy that I sort of said, you know, I don't want to take a prescription, you know, medication for the rest of my life. There's got to be another way out of this. And in reversing, you know, that condition, a lot of red flags were raised for me. And I have always been really comfortable with science, with statistics. And I just went back to the books and I said, you know, what else was I not taught? If I wasn't taught that this true.

What else isn't true?

Exactly. What else is there? And so I literally went down a rabbit hole for years, just nearly obsessively researching everything I had ever learned about statin drugs and birth control and antibiotics and vaccines and what about this medical procedure and mammograms? And I just wanted to know what was out there. What were we not telling patients in terms of the potential for any sort of over promising of these intervention and underreport of the known risks? And I put down my prescription pad entirely almost 10 years ago and never started another patient on medication. And since then I've learned a lot about the resiliency of the human body and the capacity for chronic illness to be completely resolved permanently.

Well, and especially like, I dropped out of doctoral school and switched over and started studying pharmacology. When my son got diagnosed with. Well, he was diagnosed. You'll love this, Kelly. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, adhd. I forget what else. Like the doctor, five minutes, he was like, da, da, da, da, da da. I'm like, really? Huh? You did, like, how can you say this? All right. And I started looking and talk about the most toxic drugs out there. Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, you said it because in psychiatry we don't have any objective testing, right? So you don't go to an internist or a psychiatrist and get a brain scan or some sort of electrical measurement or a spinal tap or even blood work sometimes. And so it's really an impressionistic label. And sometimes you can get stuck with that label seemingly for life. And I read this book, it came to me right at the time I was resolving my own health issues. It's called Anatomy of an Epidemic. And it's just was one of those moments in my personal history where everything slowed down to a screeching halt and I just saw my entire life changing course. And because of the information in this book revealed by an investigative journalist, Robert Whitaker, I learned that the very medications that we are using to treat long term mental illness conditions are potentially actually perpetuating the problem. So beyond side effects, they are actually setting people up to experience more disabling mental illness over the course of their lifetime. And that's so shocking and such a provocative statement. But the truth is that all of the non industry funded literature tells that story. That when we use it to depressants to treat depression, when we use mood stabilizers, when we use stimulants, when we use anti anxiety medications, if you get a short term benefit, it's at the cost of long term disability. And so maybe we need to actually go back to the drawing board and say that, you know, potentially doing nothing or even of course what I prefer to do is, you know, evidence based natural interventions could actually be a, you know, a healthier, more science based approach than the medications that have become a reflexive gold standard.

Yeah, I think back when they put my son on Zyprexa and I'm watching this and what was horrible was I was going through a divorce and my ex husband would not let me. I was working with a very holistic psychiatrist and he would not let me go to him. Like he would not let. I had to go to court and order grant to be taken off a gluten and dairy. It's cost me 10 like $10,000 to get my son off gluten and dairy. And I mean just ridiculous. And I go, the Zyprex is actually giving him the, you know, the, the attacks. Like you can watch him and go, there he goes, his blood sugar's out of control. And it just, it was so frustrating. They gave him a five pound bag of M M's because he won a contest at school.

Exactly.

And I get the, yeah, I get the call, he's climbing the walls. I go, why? Why would he be doing that? You know, I find out he got, I'm like, you keep him if you were gonna give him five pound, you think exactly.

But nobody connects those dots. Just nobody connects them.

And nobody works to connect the dots. What you eat matters, people. So let's talk about depression because you have, I mean, first of all, I love the fact that you went through the journey yourself. I always find that the people who are really out there doing amazing work, they, they have that story. So they really get it at a whole different level.

Our greatest credential. Exactly.

Yes, it really is. It's that life experience. And then you can combine that with so much great education and then a questioning mind. So let's talk depression because it's such a massive problem. How do you approach it?

Well, it's important to just conceptually rupture one of the most embedded assumptions of our time, which is that depression is a disease. And there's good reason for us to have bought into that. And it has something to do with the fact that we are one of three countries in the, that allow for direct to consumer marketing. Right. So we allow corporations, profit based corporations, to speak directly to consumers about their health. And we are really sort of, you know, we marinate in this messaging. And a lot of the messaging, if not all of it around depression is that it's based on a chemical imbalance. A lot of hand waving around that, we don't know much of the details. Maybe serotonin, don't ask too many questions, but it's based on a chemical imbalance that is corrected by medication. And you know what's interesting is that in my research over 60 years since that meme has been born, very inauspiciously actually, through observations around the side effects of anti tuberculosis medications, this idea was born. And since then, thousands of studies have been chasing this concept. And literally there is not one single human study that validates that serotonin imbalance has anything to do with depression. So that was pretty shocking considering I had been for years telling patients that that's what was wrong with them. And in fact, many of them probably felt a bit better, sort of with this sense of validation. God, I knew I was sick. You know, I knew something was wrong. And in fact, something is off. In fact, depression is a sign, like a fever, that something is off and that the body is recruiting all of its resources to respond to a perceived stressor. The thing is that the stressor can be anything from, you know, a B12 deficiency to a food reaction to a medication side effect, all the way to a psychospiritual crisis. And only you really can divine its meaning. But first we have to allow for there to be any meaning in it for you. And in the conventional paradigm, it's a very impersonal thing. Right? You're the hepatitis case in room 104C, you know, and your depression has. It's just faulty wiring. It has nothing to do with the context of your life, with your lifestyle, with your relationships, you know, with your, you know, sort of blind spots. It has nothing to do with that because we just tell people it's this, you know, mechanical malfunction. And the limitation of that is that then you can't do anything about it. You know, then you become dependent on a model that keeps you sick. And if there weren't, you know, precedent for total and dramatic, complete and lasting reversal of these seemingly chronic conditions, you know, then this might seem like a reasonable medical perspective. But in fact, you know, it can't be a chronic disease and totally, you know, curable at the same time. It's one or the other.

Right.

And so my perspective has been that people need to know what's possible, and they need to know where to begin to explore what their symptoms actually mean for them.

So what are some of the. Because I know what you've done here. You have. You have your book, you have a great online program where you walk people through this. Like, what are a couple key components that you use to help people get better with whatever it is that's. That's affecting, you know, their mental health.

Yeah. So, you know, the good news is that if we start really basically and really simply, but with a very high level of commitment, you don't have to have even a theory at the outset of what's going on. Right. So you don't have to guess. You don't have to magically intuit. You just have to get started on the foundational basics. And it will emerge. It will become clear. And this is whether you have been diagnosed with, you know, schizophrenia or OCD or major depression or adhd. This is my exact same approach, pretty much no matter what. And that's why, you know, after I stopped prescribing and I started committing myself to taking people off of medication, you know, my wait list grew to over two years, and I was like, this is totally ridiculous. I'm not performing, you know, brain surgery on Madison Avenue in Manhattan. This is very basic. This is something that anyone can do without a doctor. And so, you know, I need to make this available because the more people know that it's an option, perhaps the more people will, you know, find their more authentic expression, you know, through this process. So the pillars are very basic, and I think that's why. And I'll explain them in a sec. But that's why the mindset, I have found is actually the key ingredient. So the mindset by that what I mean is that you've got to get to a place of saying yes to the concept that your body has an innate intelligence, that it knows better what it's doing than you could ever impose upon it. That it's, you know, sort of built to respond with wisdom to, you know, all of the circumstances around it, and that it's up to us to try to interpret those messages. Right? Because what we've been taught and told is that the body is basically a machine. It breaks down randomly, that genes are loaded with all sorts of bad luck, and you need to manage the body, otherwise you're gonna drop dead or have a miserable life. And this mindset is critical because we know that the power of belief is potentially the most relevant factor in any medical outcome, whether we're talking about surgery or the effects of pain medications, certainly in the psychotrop, psychiatric medication realm. The role of belief, or placebo, as it's called, expectancy is another name for it is more powerful than anything else. And it sounds, you know, like a wild claim, but I could show you a mountain of evidence that that's the case. So let's.

I'm living with it. I'm like, you know, I don't know if you know the story of my son, but they literally told us to let him die. And I was like, oh, no, no. And we have just fed him with, you'll be 110%. You know, you can do this, you can come back from it, but we have to keep feeding it to them because everything around them is saying, oh, no, people with this never. You know, it just drives me nuts.

Exactly right. And that's why I liken it to, you know, this process of a health crisis. I liken it to, you know, a birth where you need a midwife next to you saying, you've got this. Like, you absolutely are built to do this. Everything that's happening now is for a reason, and you just gotta keep going, you know. Instead, what you're saying is so true that what is in the background, you know, blaring its white noise is, oh, God, what you're doing is dangerous. You should really start considering more urgent interventions. And what about the emergency room? And that's sort of the tape that's playing in the background for all of us. So you need to surround yourself with this messaging, and it needs to come from within you, a deep faith. So beyond that, the pillars are pretty basic. So I recommend a dietary template that I arrived at through my own experience and also through my work with my now late mentor, Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, who, you know, some of your listeners may have heard of, but was a radically holistic cancer doctor who, you know, had outcomes that have never been matched in medical history, you know, 34 year survivors of metastatic pancreatic cancer, et cetera. And his, you know, system really informed my own. And so the diet is, you know, obviously takes out all of the culprits you're very well aware of. It happens to be a red meat inclusive diet, which was a really challenging corner for me to turn because I myself was an ethical vegetarian before embarking on this journey. And it took a lot of suspension of my own dogmatic assumptions and judgment to sort of get with that. But that is a key component. Then there's the detox element, which involves coffee enemas as taught by Nick Gonzalez. You know, and I would have rolled my eyes at that, you know, before I met him. I would have said, well, that's like, you know, some blogosphere level trend, right? But in fact, the New England Journal of Medicine from 1952 has published cases on the reversal of symptoms of schizophrenia using coffee enemas alone. So it's extremely powerful. Detox methodology is very simple to do and you're in charge of it. So you do it yourself. You don't have to see anyone to do it. And it's eminently safe if done properly. And then the last component primarily is a meditation piece. And I, you know, am trained in Kundalini yoga, which of course a lot of people think of as being like super weird or, you know, somehow about like sex or it's like a cult or whatever. But in fact, I think of it as meditation for people who are otherwise really bad at meditating because you can have an experience in just three minutes. And that's what I ask for, is just three minutes, but every single day. And, and it's very busy. Like you keep yourself occupied with different hand, hand motions or breath patterns, sometimes even, you know, sort of sounds that you make that stimulate areas of your brain like your pituitary and hypothalamus. And it's very effective to send your body a signal of safety because you don't start healing until your body gets the message that everything is cool, even just for a couple of minutes a day. So it's, you know, it's quite basic. But in our online program we also have the community element. And I have come to believe that that's a major Major, you know, is sort of key to rapid shifts in. In healing and awakening is just to sort of have this container within which you can feel safe, to just, you know, let it all hang out. And that's.

Well, I'm seeing other people like you getting better.

Exactly.

Because everything you see outside of that points the opposite direction. That's exactly. So you gotta get around those people that believe like you do, too. So. Yeah, I. I think the power of connection that we so overlook. I loved that TED talk that that Dr. Alyssa Rankin did where she showed that that social isolation was the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. I mean, like, insane process. You know, it just shows you it's like the most basic things. I mean, one of the things my son's been using to heal, he's been going outside in the dirt and he's been meditating. And these were not things. And he came to them himself like, this is just what he needed to do. And that.

That's such a beautiful point because once you get clear on the physical front with these pillars that I just mentioned, then you will be guided to exactly what you need. And no one can tell you that. I mean, that's the poetry of the modern time, is that we heal together. But you have your own individual path that only you can divine. So you have to get clear enough to feel that pull towards the modality, whether it's essential oils or some kind of energy medicine or just being out in nature. You have to get clear enough to know when that's exactly what you need to implement.

I know, and it's so crazy because when you think about what happens in medicine, it's the patient stopping to trust themselves.

Exactly.

Looking to someone else for guidance, completely disconnecting from their own healing. And it's one of the things we've told my son. It's like, you can heal yourself. You can heal yourself. It's like you're a master healer.

You can do this.

And I think we all have to get back. It's also taking that personal responsibility for it. I know we were together this last week, and it's like, you know, the whole insurance system just drives me crazy. I think we should only have catastrophic. Everyone should take responsibility for their health. It's, you know, but it's a controversial.

It's a controversial subject, and I've been criticized extensively for suggesting that people can control their experience of mental illness. But the thing is, if you're not responsible, then you can't change. Right. So when you give away that responsibility, it could Feel, you know, there could be an interim window where it feels good or you feel understood or you feel seen or, you know, but the truth is you've given away all of your power to radically heal. And I know this to be possible. In fact, we have a whole wall on my website of just video after video after video of people who were told they have to take medication for life and they're disabled and, you know, they have a chronic illness, and every single one of them is medication free, diagnosis free. And these are sick people. You know, this is not like the worried well as they're called. So, you know, it's. I love to reference this, you know, vanguard physicist Rupert Sheldrake when he talks about this concept of morphic resonance, which just means once it has existed, once it becomes more likely that it could exist again in the future. And so that's exactly what you're saying. You know, like, once there is this experience of healing for one person, it actually heals all of us and makes it more possible for any of us to get there. And so that's the purpose of this kind of conversation, you know, just sort of getting the word out so that people can make more informed choices for themselves.

Well, I want to applaud you on getting the word out, because what you're doing, I know you've taken a lot of heat for it. And, you know, as a parent with a kid going through this, my gosh, we need. We need the brave, courageous people out there crusading this, because, you know, hopefully within a decade, two decades, things will be treated totally different, but a lot of that will be be because of what you've done. So thank you for taking the. Taking the hit. Someone needs to do it. So yay for you. And I know you also have, because we only have a little bit of time here, and there's so much. So I want to encourage everyone to grab your book, A mind of your own that blew everybody away because you got ignored by the media and still hit the New York Times list, which was so awesome.

Power of independent journalism.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. And then you also have a free workshop for everybody. So I would. You know, here's the thing that people don't realize I grew up with. I'm adopted, but my adopted brother, schizophrenic, and it was a big secret.

Yeah.

And. Right. And I just. I still think that for so many people, mental illness is a big secret, which just breaks my heart because I just don't see what the difference is between that and diabetes and Heart disease.

Like, you know, it's, it's changing. And when you said 10 years, I was thinking, you know what? I think it's going to be faster than that. Yeah, I think it is. Because I've been in this activism game for 10 years and it's even in the past year I feel this reclamation energy of people video recording themselves, doing interviews, sort of fearlessly embracing.

Well, Internet's helping too, because now they can't. Internet's great equalizer. You can get this information out and that's. So you've got a workshop that's free that will take people deeper. So I want to let everybody know that's@jjvirgin.com and forward/doctorbrogan. It's B R O G A N. And we'll have that in the show notes too. And what can they expect to learn there?

Awesome. So while my appointments and my program is for sort of a greater interest in really a new chapter in your life, there are a lot of, as you well know, and so many of us in this arena exchange a lot of tips and tricks and tools for really quick wins. And I've never done something like this where I just took time to share some of the things that I find most helpful for the top complaints I get. So brain fog, anxiety. And then what is it that I'm talking about when I say mindset? And how do you actually open yourself up to really deeply shifting your mindset? And then in the fourth workshop, I sort of talk about exactly what I do in my practice and in our program. So it's totally complimentary and I hope that it's useful so that you can experience that little bit of exposure to what is possible with a simple thing like a little bit of a change in what you drink before you go to bed at night. That kind of hack.

Awesome. Thank you. So again, it's JJVirgin.com DrBrogan and Kelly, I want to thank you so much for joining me. Super appreciate it and I super appreciate everything you're doing out there.

Thank you for having the courage to stand with me, truly.

Oh yes, I am definitely standing with you now. After the break, I'll be answering a listener's question. So stay with me.

If you want to lose weight even faster. Here's the two word. Extra. Extra fiber. JJ Virgin's Extra fiber fights hunger. It's detoxifying, and it's the secret to a healthy gut. JJ's extra fiber is grain free, paleo safe and doesn't contain any harmful irritants or allergenic proteins so you can happily and more safely move toward your weight loss goals. Visit jjvirgin.comproducts to give your body the well rounded consumption of fiber it needs to help balance blood sugar, support healthy digestion and stay fuller longer. Visit jjvirgin.com products and get your fiber.

Welcome back. This is the time where I answer a listener's question. And today's question comes from Jake in Houston. And he says, jj, I've seen what's been going on with your son and, and I've read your book the Miracle Mindset. I'd really love to know what you think are the critical things to help with healing a brain injury and also helping with a better mood. So I've been pretty public about the fact that my son, when he was 16, was hit by a car while crossing the street and left with a severe traumatic brain injury. He was in a coma and prior to that he had bipolar disorder. So it's been a very challenging time bringing him back and we have done a lot of different things to help. But a lot of these things, just like Dr. Kelly Brogan just talked about, there's a lot of things that are foundational that no matter what you're doing, where you're at will help you. And this is, this is a key point because when you look at what's going on with mental health, it's a massive, massive issue. And so much of it is, I think we're not connecting the dots between what we're eating and how we're living and how we feel. And there's so many things that you can do and that Grant naturally started to do to help him get through this. So I will tell you that right away I started giving him higher dose fish oil in the hospital. I was giving him 20 grams to help heal his brain and now we keep him on 5 grams of fish oil. So one of the things that can really help with brain health is fish oil. And the best thing that you can do is get an omega 3 index test and really optimize your balance of omega 3, 6 and 6s. But if you're not sure, probably somewhere between 2 and 5 grams of fish oil a day is going to be good for you. And it's great to work with the functional medicine practitioner there if you've got anything going on to really dial in that dose. The other things that we've done that have really been helpful is to balances blood sugar. Now, one of the things I talk about in the virgin diet and the sugar impact diet is not only pulling out those hidden food intolerances. And we did that early on with him. We got the gluten in the dairy out early on because we started to notice gluten, dairy, and sugar created problems anyway. So that was a piece of it. But the other piece of it was just making sure that his blood sugar was very stable. I teach everyone in those programs to eat with protein, healthy fats, and fiber to keep their blood sugar very stable. And I started to notice early on that we had issues when his blood sugar dropped. So stable blood sugar, good, healthy fats are two key things there that can really help. And then I'm going to give you a third. That has been really helpful for Grant and really helpful for me. And it took me a long time to get into this, and, gosh, I don't know what my resistance was. Now I look back and go, I should have done this a long time ago. So that's why I want to share it with you. I got into meditation, and it's because I have a girlfriend, Emily Fletcher, teacher who started Ziva Meditation, who just stayed on it for a year plus. And finally I relented, and she took me through her training process. And what's interesting is Grant had started meditating two years before. It's something that he's been doing to help him calm down, relax, and heal. And it's been amazing for him. And I now can say that I totally get that. And it's been amazing for me, too. So the key takeaway here as well, there's a lot of other things, things that we've done to heal his brain and to help him with his mood, including cbd. But the key thing here is, is it's pretty foundational stuff that whether you're working on a better mood or working on lowering your risk of heart disease and cancer and diabetes, or you're looking at better focus and energy. You know what? Wow. It all seems to be kind of the same stuff. It's like, it helps in all of these arenas, like, talk about great side benefits instead of side effects. So that's what I would like to encourage for you, is to just look at all the things that we talk about in both the sugar impact diet and the virgin diet. All these things are foundational that, yes, will help with weight loss and, yes, will help with energy, but they also help with mood, they help with focus. So that's the foundation that we start at. All right, thank you so much for that question. And again, if you'd like to submit a question. Just head on over to my Facebook page at JJ Virgin Official and you can also send in to my Customer Experience team. But I especially love it. I do Facebook lives every week. Love having you on there and we always look for those questions that fit so well with what we're doing on the podcast. And thank you so much for joining me today. I hope that there was something in here that you went, oh, I need to do that. Maybe you're like, okay, I'm gonna start meditating or it's time to really focus on getting the fish oil into my diet. As always, all this stuff is awesome information when you put it into action. So grab that little hinge and go swing the big door with something that you heard today. And I will see you next week. Bye Bye.

Hello listeners. This is Anne Bogle, author, blogger, and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.