How a Low-FODMAP Diet Can Help Your Digestion with Julie Matthews

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Well, what is it that's underlying that person and their condition and which diet is going to be the best for them? We can use different diets and we can apply it not only to people with autism, but people with a wide variety of different chronic conditions.

Here's JJ Virgin triple board certified nutrition and fitness expert and four time New York Times best selling author. It's time to reignite wellness.

Welcome to today's show. So if you've done the Virgin diet, I hope you have and I hope you've made it something you do annually to figure out your hidden food intolerances and really dial in which foods work for you and which foods don't. Now, if you've done that and you're still struggling, maybe you still have some gas and bloating discomfort after you eat diarrhea or constipation, then this episode is for you. We are going to be talking about fodmaps today. Now you might be going, what the heck are FODMAPs? Well, I'm about to bring on my friend and expert, Jo, Julie Matthews, and she will walk you through what FODMAPs are and how to know if this is something that you should test out as your next, your next thing to eliminate and rechallenge back to see how you do with this. And again, this is all along our quest to really individualize your diet for you at this time in your life with the goals that you have. Right. Because a diet that works for you today may not be the same diet that works for you in five years or 10 years. So remember, this is constantly a process. We are constantly evolving. Okay, let me tell you a little bit about Julie, who I've known for, gosh, I don't know, 12 years, long time. She's a certified nutrition consultant, published researcher, author, and she is the author of a book that anytime I get a question about autism or Asperger's, this is the book I refer everyone to. It's called Nourishing Hopes. She specializes in complex neurological, immune and digestive disorders. And again, most notably her focus is autism. And she has done just loads of research and has lots of clinical experience and lectures all over the place, has an amazing reputation. She also founded the Bioidentical. Bioidentical Nope. Bio Individual Nutrition Institute to train practitioners in this approach as well. She has just been doing amazing work. I want to do a shout out too before we start to Molly RRFW said a must listen 5 star review in Apple Podcasts. Love this podcast. I started listening about a month ago and can't get enough. Well, guess what Molly? We have more coming. So now we're into season two. And season two means we have a guest interview, we have a solo show, and then we have Friday Q and A. So make sure you subscribe. If you haven't subscribed yet, subscribe to JJ.com subscribe to JJ.com see how easy that is? And all you do is go on over there, subscribe and while you're there, leave a review and I will shout you out. And also this week's show notes. You're going to want to grab them for this episode because as we start to talk through fodmaps, you will go, okay, I need all this written down. Well, we got it written down. Julie made it for you. So JJ virgin.com forward/fodmaps f o d M A P S There you go. All right, I'll be back in a moment. Just gonna share this favorite with you.

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All right, Julie Matthews, welcome to the show. Excited to have you here.

Thank you.

I'm so happy to be here.

So this question kept popping up in the community over and over and over, and I'm like, I knew exactly who to call. So we are going to dig in today on fodmaps. But before we do that, I would like to know how you got into all of this because you have really, like, gone deep in nutrition. And so what, what inspired you?

Yes. So I start my specialty is autism. And when you, at least for me, when I studied this one subject very, very deep, I learned autism a lot about the underlying factors that underlie the condition, from gut issues to immune issues and all these different areas. And so I started to figure out that certain diets really worked well for certain people, but not well for other people. So I started to look at, well, what is it that's underlying that person and their condition and which diet is going to be the best for them? So while I started out with a focus on autism, what I realized is that autism is a chronic condition, like so many others, where we're affecting the mitochondria, the immune system, the digestive system. And so as we look for ways to address those underlying conditions, we can use different diets and we can apply it not only to people with autism, but people with a wide variety of different chronic conditions.

So then let's dive into fodmaps specifically. Excuse me, and what it is, what it stands for, what it is, and how someone could identify if they're an issue for them.

Great.

So fodmaps is an acronym for fermentable oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides, and polyols, which basically a host of different fermentable carbohydrates. And some of these are digested better by humans than others, depending on the person. And some of them are not digested that well by any of us. And our good bacteria does it. So what happens when these fermentable carbohydrates are in our intestinal tract? They draw water into the intestinal tract, and they then create gas as the good bacteria feeds and ferments them. And then they can create a whole host of digestive symptoms. Gas, bloating, pain. They can create diarrhea or constipation or alternating, depending on the person. So they affect the gut quite significantly, particularly for people with irritable bowel syndrome, where their gut is sensitive, or when they have a sibo, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and they have sort of too much bacteria in the wrong place. And then as that gas is formed, it creates a lot of discomfort for people.

So what are some of the foods that are higher in these? Fermentable carbohydrates?

Yes. So for things like fructans, we have onions, garlic, asparagus, cabbage, Brussels sprouts. In the case of galactooligosaccharides, there's legumes, beans, lentils, onions, apples. And these two particular categories are things that any of us, if we eat too many beans or we eat too much.

Yeah, I was just gonna say we're.

Gonna get a little gassy. Humans don't have that ability to really fully break these down. And that's where our good bacteria comes in handy. So sometimes it's a matter of portion size and quantity. Then there's others. Polyols are sugar alcohols. So those can be things that are found in prunes and plums and apricots and apples, those kinds of foods. Things like sorbitol or even xylitol. And then we've got some that are fructose. So these are monosaccharidesaccharides, and then disaccharides like lactose. So that's going to be different types of dairy where the lactose is still remaining. So those are the five categories of fodmaps.

Now, does someone react to all of them or maybe just one category? How does it work?

Not. Yes, not necessarily all categories. So it depends on the person. So a more sensitive person, where maybe their gut is more sensitive, they might be more reactive to all of them. But there's some people that just have a fructose malabsorption issue, or they have an issue with lactose primarily, or one of these others. So it can be of one or more categories, depending on the individual.

All right, and how would you know?

So you do a dietary trial is usually the best way. So we take all the categories out and then we would add the categories in one at a time to figure out if somebody's symptoms reappear upon adding them back.

Got it. And so someone who's like, right now you talked about sibo and you talked about irritable bowel, but like, who, who would be appropriate to do a trial for a low fodmaps diet?

Typically, people that are having digestive upset where they are feeling bloated all the time, they. They feel like no matter what they eat, what time of the day they're feeling bloated, they are having digestive pain, maybe they've really been struggling with maybe diarrhea or something like loose stools and things, and they have maybe taken out some of the basics like maybe gluten or dairy, and they're still having it. In some cases, they haven't taken those foods out, and those foods would be taken out in this diet. But sometimes the people are already on a gluten free and dairy free diet and they're still having symptoms. They're thinking, look, I eat this really healthy diet. I don't eat any of the inflammatory gluten and dairy and things, but I'm still having this issue. So I find sometimes that will come up for people. Also sometimes when people are, they might be even on a grain free diet, not all grains are taken out on fob maps. Some like gluten are, you know, wheat and other gluten grains are, but maybe they've even taken out all grains and they're still having react digestive reactions and they're trying to figure out what next.

Got it. I love the, the, you know, I always love being your own personal health detective and going through and really figuring out which work and which don't. Is there any kind of test for this or is that really the way to do it?

Well, there are some tests for sibo, so there are some breath tests you can do for that, but for the most part, and you know, a doctor might diagnose somebody with ibs, let's say, but usually that's not always based on the lab either. That's more subjective. So often the best way to figure out if you're tolerating or not tolerating food maps is to do a low fodmaps dietary trial.

Okay, so let's like walk through and what I'd love to know is like.

Because I'm sure people are going now.

What do I eat?

Right.

But walk through how to do one and how long before you would then trial back foods. Like just kind of walk us through the basics of it. I know you're going to give us a handout, by the way, if you're listening, going, oh my gosh, which foods you're getting a handout. It will be at jjvirgin.com FODMAPS F O D M A P S. So you'll be able to get all this. So don't worry. But let's just get the idea down on how you would do this diet and then how you would rechallenge.

Great. So first you would start out by eliminating all of those foods in those particular FODMAPS categories we just talked about for about two to six weeks. And during that time you're gonna see how you're feeling. When your symptoms start to reduce and go down and you feel like you're at a good stable place somewhere between two and six weeks, then that's when you can get ready to do the reintroduction or the testing phase. And, and then the way the testing phase works is that you typically, you know, everybody, you know, people can kind of figure out what really works best for them. But typically what I will recommend for people is to reintroduce one FODMAP category every three days and they can choose one food from that particular category. So let's say that they were going to test the fructans category and they really wanted to get it. They let's say they're going to say test with cabbage. So the first day they're going to do a small serving, a very small amount of cabbage on that first day. The second day they're going to add a little bit more. And on the third day they're going to add a full serving of that food and they're going to see how they do in that three day period. And then at the end of that they're going to either get a sense of do they tolerate this food or not? And they're going to make a note of that. Then they're going to keep that food out of the diet and then they're going to move on to the next food category and they're going to test each of these five categories over a three day period.

Now when they do one category, if they felt fine with that category, do they leave it in or do they keep it out?

I usually like to keep it out until the end. That way just have a really pure, clean trial.

All right, so then how do we know if it's like a real reaction or it's low grade. Like, at what point is this something that you want to keep out?

So if it is just a, if you feel a little bit of something, you know, everyone will get a, might get a little bit of gas or something that's pretty normal. But if it's create, if it's got pain associated, if it's a strong reaction, if it's some of the symptoms that you were trying to get rid of at the beginning and you're having a strong reaction where it's, you know, it's affecting your quality of life or it's causing you discomfort, then that would mean to leave it out. But if it's just a little, a little something, there's a little bit of a threshold there. But yeah, if it's something you're feeling like, no, this is not a symptom I want to live with every day, then that means, no, that's not a food to add back in.

And here's another question with this. And I got this tip from our buddy, Dr. Alan Christensen, who's like, so with legumes, he said you can actually take a tablespoon a day and condition your gut, which I would assume wouldn't work if you were a sibo ibs, but with someone who maybe you just need to feed that bacteria so it's able to handle it. Is there any of that with any of these foods where if we're eating them consistently, we can tolerate them, but if we weren't and all of a sudden we sit down and eat a, you know, big raw cabbage salad, which I did once. Once. Only once.

We've all done that once.

Yes.

Well, that is definitely true. If you radically different at any time, you might get a reaction like that. And there is truth too, that your gut bacteria does change over time with the introduction of new foods. So you can support yourself. And these, these back, these short chained, short chain carbohydrates, they are actually really good for the gut. They help our bacteria, they're actually really good food to help our good bacteria thrive. So there is a point where if we can tolerate some of these, we do want to add in as we tolerate them and we might tolerate a tiny little bit of a symptom because if it's kind of supporting that growth of the good bacteria, that can be a good thing. But if it's creating discomfort, then that's something we want to avoid.

And so let's say that you go through this and you discover two categories really are Bothering you at the time. How is this a forever or is this, you know, a period of time and you re challenge, then what do you do? Do you do healing? What, what's next steps?

Yes. So once you determine that, let's say that you've got a problem with these two categories, then you would avoid those two categories for a period of time. Now, again, that's a little different for different people on how long they've been suffering and how extreme it's been. But you do want to retest because this is not a forever diet. This is a temporary diet. But I would say what I usually use any therapeutic diet for is to relieve the burden on the body for a period of to. You can heal that up to whatever extent you need to so that you're able to tolerate these more. So you do want to go back periodically and rechallenge some of these foods and see if you've gained a tolerance for them.

And if you have maybe at that point lower grade symptoms. Sounds like you could probably condition your gut a bit with eating small, like starting with little, small amounts of them.

Yes, yes.

Yeah. Because I think the challenge is like, you know, as you were naming those foods, it's like, these are really good foods. Brussels sprouts and onions. Oh, no.

You know, that's right.

May just be some of these need to be like. I don't know about you. First of all, I think raw broccoli is possibly one of the most disgusting things ever. I mean, ew. Who likes that? Like, whenever they serve the crudite plates and they've got this raw broccoli, I'm like, really yucky.

I know. And I had the raw broccoli thing that you had with the raw cabbage salad. I was in college once and I decided that I was just going to eat raw broccoli as my snack, and I must have eaten a whole head and I was in such discomfort. So, yes, not only does it not taste good, nobody wants to do that, trust me.

No, it kills you. So some of these, it just may be that you need to cook it.

Right.

Right.

And there is a difference, although we don't know all the differences yet in how cooking will affect all of these, but they have identified that pickling, and not necessarily that we think canned foods are the healthiest, but pickling things or canned things can change a little bit of that. And I do believe as well that cooking would change it some too. So as people are after, they're kind of on step three and they're doing the Diet, they might determine that, wow, I can handle a little serving of this or I can handle a serving of it cooked, or they might determine certain bio individual aspects that allow them to tolerate some of these things, because, as you said, they're really good foods. And so my goal in any kind of special diet is always taking out the things that are really causing a problem to relieve the system, but trying to keep the diet as robust and varied as possible, because these are really good foods.

Good.

I love that.

That's fantastic.

Let's do just a couple sample meals so people know that there are still plenty of things out there to eat that are healthy.

Absolutely.

Got a couple of your faves.

Absolutely. So I know typically meats and vegetables, and I just like to choose the low fad maps vegetables, and that tends to be how I like to eat anyway. So things like, let's say some steak with a salad. You can do arugula and lettuce and all sorts of good salad. Things like that. You could put a little bit of some red pepper. Or remember, portion sizes for some of these can be important. I also like celeriac, which is the celery root, which is a starchy ish sort of thing, but doesn't have all the same starches as, say, potato potatoes would. So just generally, if I'm going to like to stay on the more paleo side, some potato actually is technically allowed, but I tend to like to avoid those anyway. So I might do a celeriac mash with mine. Maybe I would do a roasted cheese chicken with some roasted carrots or parsnips or rutabagas. Kale and collard greens, which are so good for you, too, are good low fodmaps foods. So that's typically how I would put together some really good, healthy low fodmaps meals.

Okay, those all sound great, except, you know, I'm just coming out of the closet and I just think kale is icky tasting. So I'm one of those supertasters. I'm definitely a bitter taster, but I just don't like it. So there. I'm out of the closet. I am out of the closet. All right, so I'm very, very grateful that you put together a handout because I know this was. It was great. Because now if you were listening, you can walk through it. I think this is the perfect thing to do. You've done the virgin diet. If you've still got something going on, give low fodmaps a try. And so you'll have the handout to be able to do that. And that'll be at jjvirgin.com forward/fodmaps F O D M A P S. And Julie, thank you so much for being our guide on the low fodmaps diet journey. I appreciate you.

Absolutely. I'm thrilled to be able to do it. Thank you.

And after the break, stay with me because I'm going to give you your first action step from today.

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Welcome back. All right, this is where we put knowledge into action and I give you your challenge. I throw out the gauntlet for what we're doing this week. And first of all, you know that I am a big advocate of connecting the dots between what you're eating and how you feel and individualizing your diet for where you are right now, for your age, for your sex, for your goals, for your lifestyle so that it really works for you and so that your great health, great energy, the right body composition for you all just become effortless and automatic. And so if you have not done the virgin diet, I'm going to put the link up for our free seven day challenge to get you started there. Because to me, that is step one is to go through the virgin diet and uncover your hidden food intolerances. And once you've done that, you kind of check in and you go, how am I feeling? If you are still noticing that you get gassy, uncomfortable. And I'm not talking about that like every once in a while, teeny bit of gas, I am talking about like crippling, crampy, owie stuff. If you are noticing that, then this is where we want to go. We want to go over and give low fodmaps a try. And so that is why I was super, super excited to get Julie on the show and to walk you through it. So that would be your next thing to do. And you're very familiar. Once you've done the Virgin diet and the breakthrough food intolerance online program, you're very familiar on how to do an elimination diet and then challenge back to connect those dots. And as you could tell today as we were walking through it, it's the same. Which I loved because I really like you being your own health detective and you going through and you connecting the dots and really getting in tune with your body. So that's the next step. All right, so make sure you grab all the information jj virgin.com fodmaps and one more time, if you have not subscribed yet made it Easy, subscribe to JJ. Subscribe to JJ.com jump on over there so you never miss a show. And if you haven't left a review yet, leave one. Love to do a shout out for you. Thanks. See ya. Foreign.

Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger, and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.