How to Keep Your Eyes Ageless With Dr. Rani Banik

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We're with you all the way, Walgreens. I'm JJ Virgin, PhD dropout, sorry, mom turned four time New York Times bestselling author. Yes, I'm a certified nutrition specialist, Fitness hall of famer, and I speak at health conferences and trainings around the globe. But I'm driven by my insatiable curiosity and love of science to keep asking questions, digging for answers and sharing the information I uncover with as many people as I can. And that's why I created the well Beyond 40 podcast to synthesize and simplify the science of health into actionable strategies to help you thrive. In each episode we'll talk about what's working in the world of wellness, from personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to healthy aging and prescriptive fitness. Join me on the journey to better health so you can love how you look and feel right now and have the energy to play full out at 100. I've just finished recording this podcast and I literally can tell you that my mind has been blown and I can't think of the time I've ever said that. I just interviewed Dr. Ronnie Bonick, longtime friend. She's America's integrative eye doctor. She's a double board certified neuro ophthalmologist and functional medicine practitioner and what she shared with me are things that I never was aware of about when you need to have an eye exam, what type of eye exam you need to have, why these are so critical to do early, how they can help you identify and prevent different things like macular degeneration, cataracts, glaucoma, what types of things you can see in an eye exam, like different autoimmune diseases and Ms. And neurodegeneration, diabetes. Just incredible information. Plus we might have jumped over and talked about cosmetic surgery and Lasik and makeup and all of these things as well. We're also going to dig into a little bit of diet and talk about her new book, Beyond Carrots Best Foods for Eye Health A to Z. And some supplements can make a big difference as well. She's a Castle Connolly, top doctor, New York Magazine's best doctor, and she has been interviewed on Good Morning America, cbs, NBC, abc, the New York Times, and a bunch more. And now on the Wellbeing 40 podcast. You are going to love this podcast and you're also going to want to take her IQ test and you can do that@jjvirgin.com eyeq get it and I will be right back with Dr. Ronnie Vonnik. Stay with me. Hey, it's JJ here. Now, let's be honest. The holidays are basically a financial ambush. Travel, hosting, gifts, surprise holiday school, things. Suddenly you're wondering how December turned into a spending spree. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you you need to be using Monarch. It's rated the Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or your phone. What really grabbed my attention is how fast those little holiday expenses pile up with Monarch. Seeing everything in one place makes it a lot harder to accidentally overspend. And honestly, I I appreciate anything that keeps me from starting January with a money hangover. You'll love exploring the holiday spending category. Imagine how good it will feel to actually see what's happening before your credit card statement does that whole dramatic reveal thing. Monarch basically shows you exactly where the money is going in real time, and that level of clarity could change everything, right? Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use the code virgin@monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year@monarch.com with code Virgin.

Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger, and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and Reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately. And I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment, whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to Help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything. You'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and visit our website what Should I read next podcast.com to find out more.

Dr. Rani, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much, JJ. I'm so excited to be here.

You know what's crazy is somehow we have never talked about eye health. I just don't get it. And I especially don't get it because selfishly, you know, and I was telling you offline, like, I had to wear glasses from, like, early age all the way up. And they told me when I went through, like, my hormonal stuff, when I turned, like, 13 or 14, it would all be fine and go away. And it never went away till I had babies and it was perfect. And then, like, for a brief 15 years, I had fabulous, you know, eyesight. And then Boof was gone again. So it's been a thing because I've heard all sorts of things about why this is and what we can do to change it. So I'd love to dive in. You know, this is well beyond 40. What are the things that happen, you know, what happened with me, I'm surmising that some hormonal shifts happen, but, you know, what are the things that start to happen as women start to age beyond 40?

Well, first of all, vision is such a dynamic sense. It's changing all the time. And when kids are young, their eyes are growing. So it could be that back then when you were young, your eyes were not yet optimized for distance vision, and so that's why you needed the glasses. You mentioned that your eyes were crossed, but then you kind of outgrew that as your eyes grew to a certain their adult size, basically. But then after a certain age, especially after 40, other things start to happen. And they're also what we call natural changes in the eye. It's not that you're doing anything to trigger it or it's your environment, it's your diet, necessarily. There are some things that happen. Just like many of us have skin changes around our eyes as we get older, our eyes change also as we get older. So one thing that happens to most people once they reach their mid-40s, early-50s is trouble reading. And almost everyone goes through this. I mean, I've gone through it. You mentioned that you've gone through it. I would say 95% of my patients go through it. You know, you feel like you have to hold things further away and your arms just aren't long enough. So that's called presbyopia. And that happens because the lens inside the eye, normally it changes shape, it's dynamic, but as we get older, it becomes more stiff. And when it becomes more stiff, we have a hard time refocusing when we're looking from distance to intermediate to up close, that's what's happening. Probably one of the most annoying things that people have to go through because they're trying to read a menu in a restaurant, they can't read it anymore. They're trying to read their bottles. They can't read the small font. But there are lots of. We were talking about this earlier, but there are lots of options that people can explore to help manage it. Reading glasses are probably the simplest thing. You can just go get some over the counter reading glasses. Try some different ones on hold something, you know, small font that you're going to read, be reading and see what fits best for you. Otherwise you can do multifocal contacts just on your phone, on your devices to help you read better. And then of course, there are drops that can be used to help you see better for reading.

Yeah. And those drops that you can use. And we were talking a little bit about this, so I'd love to put this on the podcast as well. The name of it is. Are there more than that? Just one brand name.

Right now there's only one that's FDA approved and it's called vuity. I have no financial interest in it, but I think there are going to be others on the market soon. But that was the first one to come to market, so you probably have seen ads for it on tv.

Any side effects? So I tried it and it was super cool because I could go to the gym and actually see my podcast and read things, which was great. But it also made me feel weird what was happening.

Yeah. So the active ingredient, what it does is it constricts your pupil. So it actually stimulates the parasympathetic system. It constricts your pupil, but it can also get absorbed into your body. So it can kind of stimulate the parasympathetic system in your body. So that may be why you felt a little bit off. The way we were talking about this earlier. The way you can prevent it from getting absorbed into your body is just to do a simple thing. Once you put the drop in, hold your Fingers right here by the middle corner of your eye, and that'll prevent it from getting absorbed into your body. So simple, simple, hack there. And then in terms of side effects, most people do fine with it. You know, on an as needed basis, I would not recommend using the drops every day. That's not really what it's meant for. It's meant for, you know, specific things. Like if you need to go to an event, you need to see something up close, you could use it for that. There are some more serious side effects that can happen. Like, for example, rarely, the drops can lead to something like retinal detachment, and that's something you definitely don't want to have. So just be aware. Talk to your eye doctor about whether it's right for you or not, and don't use it every day. Those are my tips for the drops.

So beyond just finding that you need longer and longer arms to read as you age, what about, like, are there any other things that can happen as we age? And especially things that could be warning signs of, say, macular degeneration or cataracts or something like that?

Well, first, start with something that's really common but not that serious, which is dry eye. And most of us, especially women after the age of 40, sometimes feel like our eyes are dry, and then that sensation may actually worsen over time. And the reason is because the tears on the surface of our eye, they just tend to evaporate. And in many cases, it's hormonally related, especially during perimenopause menopause. Our hormones are changing. And it's interesting. It's not just levels of estrogen and progesterone that go down. It's also testosterone. So we also have testosterone, estrogen, progesterone receptors on the glands inside our eyelids that produce tears. And because of those changing hormone levels, our tears just aren't as healthy as they should be, and then they evaporate. People have dry eyes, so that's a common cause of dry eye. Also, people are on screens all the time. You know, most of us are glued to our screens 8, 10, 12 hours or more a day. So that can also lead to dry eye, because when we're looking at a screen, for example, we blink much less like normally, we blink about 15 or 20 times a minute. When we're looking at a screen, we're only blinking about four or five times a minute. So when we're not blinking enough, our eyes are going to dry out. So think about all of that. Could it be hormonally Related. Could it be, you know, just being on a screen all day long? Could it be, you know, if you're driving and you have the car vents and they're blowing forced air right at your eyes, that's going to dry your eyes out too. So maybe you have dry eye when you're driving. So think about all those things and think about maybe how you can optimize them or talk to your eye doctor about what else you can do. In my practice, I start people off on different tiers of therapy for dry eye. So like tier 1, tier 2, tier 3. Tier 1 is the simplest thing you can do, which is just to get like over the counter artificial teardrops. Tier 2, sometimes I do some more aggressive therapies, like prescription drops. And then tier three, I actually go to compounded drops. I actually do like compounded hormone drops for my patients, like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. But it's again, something you really should talk to your doctor about.

If you were doing hormone replacement therapy, would that help your eyes? Or is it better to do this piece where it's really, you know, you put it straight into your eyes. And if you put it into your eyes, I'm assuming it's also going to be systemic.

So it's interesting you would think that if somebody is on hormone replacement therapy and they, they need to replace that estrogen, progesterone, testosterone for their eyes, that it would take care of it. But the studies have not shown that and we don't really understand why. Now that was with traditional hormone replacement therapy. Now with bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, we don't know. The study just hasn't been done. But in my experience, I've seen plenty of women who are on HRT or B HRT and they're not getting better with their dry eyes. That's why I started doing the topical, you know, the drop form, just to get it directly to the target. And it tends to do much better. People tend to do much, much better with that.

That is amazing. How often do you have to use it?

Two or three times a day.

Wow.

Regular drops. You know, if you buy like, you know, over the counter drops, you're going to be using them two, three times a day, same thing.

Now I know that a couple years back it was interesting. I started to notice that my eyes would hurt and I thought it was dry eye, but that didn't take care of it. I thought I had a stye. I went to the doctor and I had some kind of weird little things that I had to use in antihistamine drop on that. Something that's a common thing that people get. And I don't remember what the thing was. I just remember that it was enormously expensive drops that I have to put in my eyes when it shows up. Yeah.

So I. It sounds like what you had were some allergies. And a lot of people suffer from eye allergies. Sometimes it's, you know, during certain seasons, like the spring or the fall, even the summer, less so in the winter. But eye allergies can make your eyes feel really uncomfortable. It can feel like there's something in there. They can be itchy. You could have crusting in the morning. They can be very red. And sometimes when we look in the inside the eye, when we do an eye exam, we can see like little bumps on the inside of the eyelids. And that's a reaction to something allergic. And so there are lots of over the counter drops you can use for eye allergies. And then there are some kind of heavy duty prescription drops. And it sounds like that's probably what you had was maybe some kind of a mild steroid drop or something for the allergy. But it's super, super common. Even kids get it too. Some kids, you know, they have such severe seasonal allergies and their eyes just get really red and puffy and they're rubbing their eyes. So one thing with eye allergies, if you feel like you have eye allergies, do not rub your eyes, which is.

Probably the hardest thing ever.

I know you probably want to tie your hands behind your back, so please don't. Instead, do some cool compresses. You know, there are other things you can do, but please do, because that's just going to exacerbate things. Like when you rub, you're causing friction and those little bumps are kind of like scraping against the surface of your eye. It's going to make things worse. So please don't do that. I know it's. It's tempting.

Just rubbing your eyes in general feels so good.

It does.

I know it's worsening. And I know we're going to talk about like cosmetic surgery and makeup and all that before we do. You mentioned screens. Being on your screen for hours every day can be problematic. Are there things that you can do like changing the screen settings or blue blockers or anything like. Like that? Will that make a difference?

Yeah. So what you're describing is something that we call digital eye strain. Where people are on screens, they get dry eyes, they have trouble focusing, they sometimes even have light sensitivity, they may develop headaches or neck strain. So that's all this umbrella syndrome of eye strain. Now what can you do? Well, I would say number one is to take frequent breaks. That's what we typically recommend. So if you can like set your timer every 30 minutes, just close your eyes, maybe do some meditative bre during those like 20 seconds of just closing your eyes and relieving your eyes of that constant eye strain. The other thing you can do is a lot of people turn to blue blockers. But there was really an interesting study that was just published of over 600 patients that showed that blue blockers don't really work. Not only proven to work and probably it's because most blue blockers, if you look at them, they have a light tint or no tint at all. They look, some of them look clear, some of them have like a light yellow tint. And that's only blocking about 20 to 30% of the blue light. So that's probably why most studies using blue blockers don't work, because you're not really blocking all the blue light. So if you're going to do blue blockers, get a deeper tint and I love, you know, like a deep orange or amber or red tint and you'll see the difference immediately. Like when you look at your screen, you almost feel like immediately like there's this relaxation that happens. And another tip about blue blockers, how do you know if your blue blocker is really working for you? Well, you put them on, you look at your screen and if you can still see the color blue on your screen, you know that it's not blocking most of the blue light. But if you put on one of those deeper tinted blue blockers, you'll hardly be able to see any blue at all. So that's a good indication if your blue blockers giving you enough blue blocking filtering ability, other things you can do. So this is where nutrition comes in and this is really fascinating. So our eyes have a natural ability to block and filter blue light. Just like they can also block and filter UV light. There are nutrients that get deposited in the back of the eye in the retina that can absorb blue light and filter it and basically neutralize it. So what are these nutrients? Lutein and zeaxanthin. Now many people probably have never heard of them. They're called the macular carotenoids. But they're so important for eye health. So if you want to enhance your eyes natural ability to block blue light when you're on the screen have foods that are rich in lutein, zeaxanthin. And the other benefit is that not only do they help your eyes, they also help your brain health. So there's lots of studies that show that lutein and zeaxanthin are great for cognitive health. They slow down cognitive decline, brain fog, memory loss, et cetera. So two benefits from these two nutrients.

Okay, cool. So I have beyond carrots, which is such a cute name for a book, by the way, the best foods for eye health. Like, so cute in here. I know that you have a lot on nutrition. Which are the top foods for lutein and zeaxanthin?

Oh, there are so many. So I will start with leafy greens. Leafy greens have probably the highest concentration of lutein and zeaxanthin. And I would say if you're gonna choose amongst the leafy greens, the ones you wanna pick are kale, spinach, collard greens, Swiss chard. Those are probably my top choices. Let's say you don't eat leafy greens. Let's say you can't tolerate them. Maybe you're sensitive to oxalates. There are lots of other foods that can provide you with these. These nutrients. So you can look for anything yellow and orange. So, for example, I love orange bell peppers. They're probably the highest concentration of lutein and zeaxanthin, aside from leafy greens, yellow bell peppers. I know, jj, you're not a big fan of corn, but corn is a great source as well, and also spices. So people don't realize that some of those brightly colored orange and yellow spices are actually that color of lutein and zeaxanthin. So things like paprika, cayenne pepper, saffron, these are great spices to add to your diet also to get these nutrients.

Oh, here's the thing. If it was organic corn, fresh, right? That's one thing. But that's not how people are eating corn.

I know.

It's like the old processed food, right? So that's it. And I'm glad you brought up the oxalate issue that, like, there's so much sugar. So much now I feel like we're getting really food phobic. Instead of understanding that we have to see which foods work for us. And if they don't, why don't they? And let's heal our gut. Like, when I wrote the Virgin diet, It wasn't drop seven foods forever. When people see me 10 years later and they go, I'm on the virgin diet, I go, that was actually a process to take you through an elimination and swapping and healing process so you can figure out which foods work for you and which foods don't and if they don't, how to heal your gut. So at some point they might, with the exception of gluten, I don't feel like is a really great thing unless you're lucky enough to live.

Yep. Yep. Some people are sensitive to oxalates so they can't have the leafy greens. Other people are sensitive to nightshades and so they can't have peppers or any kind of spices that are coming from peppers. So you just have to figure out what your body can tolerate. And I agree with you a hundred percent. It's not forever. You eliminate them for some time and then you reintroduce and you see how your body reacts. And listen, listen to your body and figure out what you can, can take and what you can't take.

Yep. Just the voice of reason. But it is, it has been driving me nuts lately. Cause I feel like we're just making people scared of everything. Yeah, right. We'll be mono food diets. It's like this is not how, not how we have been on the planet for all these years. So back over, you were talking blue blocker glasses. Let's talk glasses. Glasses. Because as people age, I mean, how likely is it that they need to wear glasses? I've heard from several different people that they can train you so that you don't need glasses. Is that true? It always looks like a lot of work.

Not everyone needs glasses. It just depends on the power of your eyes. Like what is your baseline power. And sometimes people are given glasses when they don't necessarily need them or they're given a prescription that's too strong for their baseline power. So I'm going to give you a tip here. And this is something that you're going to have to ask your eye doctor. The next time you go to see your eye doctor for a pair of a prescription is ask for a cycloplegic refraction. Now it sounds like a fancy term, but basically what they do is they put certain drops in your eyes. They use those drops to dilate your eyes. But they should check your glasses prescription after you get the drops put in because that will give you your baseline prescription. You can't try to focus through it. You can't really try hard and strain your eyes and see through that because your eyes are basically dilated and paralyzed. So that's the best time to check a prescription. And oftentimes like I'll give you my Own story. When I was younger, my late teens, early 20s, I became myopic, meaning I couldn't see far away. So I needed to get glasses and contacts. And my prescription back then was a minus 5 and a minus 3. And for years I was wearing a minus 5 and a minus 3. And it wasn't until I got to my 40s and I was like, oh, I can't read anymore. And I needed to get reading glasses that I had that cycloplegic refraction done. And this is, I'm embarrassed to say this, as an eye doctor, I didn't get a proper cycloplegic refraction until I was in my 40s. But when I got that cycloplegic refraction, what happened was my prescription, my true prescription was not a minus 5, it was a minus 3.5. And my other eye was not a minus 3, it was a minus 1.5. So I was over what we call over minused for years. And so it is possible to decrease your prescription, but you need to ask for that type of referral.

What happens if you're over minused?

You can't see properly. So this is a reason why many people, especially after 40, have such trouble. You know, they may be corrected for distance, but all of a sudden they can't see their computer well or they can't read. It's usually because they're over minused. And if you just back off on that minus prescription, like what happened to me, you can function better. So right now I'm actually using, I wear contacts and I wear multifocal contacts, and I'm using an even lesser prescription than that because that allows me to see distance and allows me to read and I'm very comfortable. So you just have to play around with the prescription. And I always say, choose the lowest prescription you need. Don't go for the highest one or don't even go for like in between. Just try to lower it down as much as possible.

Why on earth wouldn't that just be the standard way that an eye exam is done?

Why is it not?

Or yeah, why isn't that just the way it's done?

Because it's time. And some people, they don't want to get their eyes dilated. But there are lots of great reasons to get your eyes dilated. So especially adults, we should be getting our eyes dilated every one to two years.

But when people are younger, why should we do that?

So many reasons. I don't want to take you down a rabbit hole, but throw that out.

There, that statement, I'M like, what is that statement? I don't even get it.

So there are things that can happen in the back of the eye that you may not know is going on. A lot of these conditions are asymptomatic, like, for example, macular degeneration. Many people have probably heard the term. They've probably seen ads on tv. Now there are all these new drugs out there for macular degeneration, but people may not know that they have it unless they get to a very advanced stage where they've actually lost vision. And it's really the earlier stages, the asymptomatic stages, that we can do something about. We can prevent it from getting worse. And the only way to know if you have it is to get a dilated eye exam. Glaucoma is the same way. A lot of people have glaucoma. They have no idea that they have glaucoma because they haven't had a dilated eye exam. Cataracts, too. So people can have cataracts. They may not have symptoms in the early stages. So that's why we recommend getting your eyes dilated. I know it's not fun, it's an inconvenience for a couple of hours, but if you think about your eyes, like, long term, it's worth it. It's so worth it to be blurry for a couple of hours, to be able to diagnose these things early. Because when it comes to eye health, prevention is key. You want to prevent it from happening. Don't wait until it happens, because once it happens, you cannot reverse a lot of these changes. You want to prevent them from happening.

Okay, this is so huge because I'm thinking about this going, okay, we're told to get a colonoscopy, a mammogram, all these other things, but never once have I been told to go get a checkup to check if I've got any kind of early onset of glaucoma or never. I've never heard this.

Can I talk to your doctor? Nope.

Unless they can't see. Like, their vision changes, they'd never go and get an eye exam. Right.

It's a major issue. Because it's not. We don't have an awareness about our eyes. Like we were talking when we started our conversation. You said, you know, a lot of people just don't really think about it until there's a problem. You know, if you think about our senses, the five senses. Vision, most people would say, is the most precious of them all. It's the most important of them all yet we just kind of assume we're going to be able to see. Okay. The truth is, a lot of these conditions that can happen are completely silent until they get to be an advanced stage. And you need to get just like you go. You were saying you go see the dentist twice a year. You get your eye exam once a year after age 40. Once a year.

Never heard this before.

There should be a major public service campaign.

Oh, my gosh.

And I'll tell you another thing, jj. So when people come see me, they get their eye examination. I've been able to diagnose so many other health conditions just from their eyes. Like, I can't tell you the number of people I've diagnosed with high blood pressure, with diabetes, with high cholesterol, heart issues just from their eye exam. Because it shows up in the eyes. Our eyes are connected to the rest of their body. They're not just on their own. And they reflect what's going on in the body. So go see your eye doctor because you could be shocked at what they could help you to uncover.

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I'm thinking about the eye doctor. I go, and I've gone to a lot of different eye doctors, so it's not like I've had the same eye doctor forever. No, I've had multiple different eye doctors because I've moved around the country, and no one's ever said this or said, I need an annual exam. It's usually just, oh, you need. You want a new pair of glasses. You have to get your prescription updated. And I don't believe. How would I know if they've actually done an exam to evaluate for any of these things?

Yeah. So usually not only do you get your glasses checked, but they put you in a couple of machines, and you put your chin in the rest, and they look at your eyes with a light. So that's telling. You know, they're checking the front of the eye. They do a glaucoma test, and then the key is they do the drops. And unless you're getting the drops, you're not getting the complete eye exam. So, please, if you haven't booked it already, get your eye checkups done.

Okay. And so for everybody listening, this is like. This is so huge. And I cannot believe, being in the field, this is the first time I've heard this. I don't know if my head was under a rock.

However, I think a lot of people just don't. They don't know.

And what would you ask your doctor? Like you're calling up the doctor, the eye doctor. What are you asking them for? Just an annual. Like, because we know about a physical checkup.

Yeah. Annual dilated exam. I need my annual dilated exam. And again, people don't like the drops, but they can be lifesavers. I can tell you. Like so many patients I've diagnosed with heart disease, with tumors. I mean, I don't want to scare anybody, but the eye is not just a window to our soul, it's a window to our health. That's the bottom line. And I think I counted once. I think you can pick up over 200 medical conditions from an eye exam, from lupus to thyroid problems, Hashimoto's autoimmune diseases like blood clotting disorders. So many things we can pick up from a simple eye exam.

Well, you can, but would most doctors, are they trained to be able to do this?

So both. So there's two kinds of eye care providers. There's ophthalmologists who are MDs, and there are optometrists who are ODs. Both of them can do this type of eye exam? Absolutely. It doesn't matter who you see. Get your dilated exam.

Okay. And they can see all this other stuff. And they would bring it up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They should be able to see, folks. Okay.

This is amazing. I'm on it. Next thing then. The last time I went to the doctor, I actually went in because I wanted to see if I could get Lasix. Would love your opinion on. Which I'm not a candidate for, but I would love your opinion on Lasix. Is this something that someone whose eyesight shifted should look at? Is it a yay? Is it a nay? What's your opinion?

First of all, Lasik has been around a while. It's relatively safe. Hundreds of millions of people have probably had it and they're very happy with their eyesight. But what I'll tell you is that it's not for everyone. So it depends on whether you're a candidate or not. Depends on a few things. If you have severe dry eye, I would not recommend it because it's going to make things much, much worse. If your corneas are thin. They're going to measure the thickness of your cornea. You may not be a candidate if you have cataracts or if you have early cataracts, it's probably not a good idea to get Lasik because eventually you're going to need cataract surgery anyway. So there's a couple of different things, like a checklist your doctor is going to go through with you to see if you're a good candidate. But another thing I'll tell you, and I have this conversation at dinner parties, cocktail parties all the time. People ask me like, okay, so you're an eye doctor. Have you had Lasik? And I say, no. And they ask, okay, so why is it that you haven't had it? And what I tell them is this. If you go to any ophthalmology conference and there's, you know, 30,000, 40,000 ophthalmologists from around the world at the conference, you look around in the room, almost everyone is wearing glasses or contacts, and you have to ask yourself, why is it that the doctors who do the procedure don't get it done on themselves? And it's a very simple explanation, because we know what can happen. We know about the risk, the complications, and we're not willing to take that risk. So it is very, very low. Let's say it's one out of 5,000, where something's gonna go wrong and you may not have great vision or you may have an eye infection or something like that. So it could really affect you long term. So it's an elective procedure. Again, most people do great. Most people have an excellent outcome, excellent vision, 2020 or better. But if you're that 1 in 5,000 person, it's 100% to you. And so as eye doctors, we know what the risks are, and we're not willing to go through and basically make our eyes vulnerable to that risk. So that's what I tell people. And then people kind of pause and they say, okay, maybe I'm not going to do it. But, you know, I just try to give them a balanced perspective of it's a great procedure, yet when you're going into it, be aware of what the potential risk can be.

I think that pretty much says everything, though. If the eye doctors aren't doing it. Hello. That tells me what I need to know. Let's talk other cosmetic surgery. And, you know, what you see there with everything from. I guess it would be like, bless and that type of stuff.

Yeah, yeah. So as we get older, the skin around our eyes it's really, really thin. We can start to see, you know, sags and bags and wrinkles. And sometimes, you know, especially with the upper lid, if it gets really heavy, it can come over and block our vision, almost like a curtain over our vision. So that is correctable with surgery. And it's called the blepharoplasty. Most people get their upper lids done, some people will get their lower lids done. Like if they have puffiness down here, it's basically puffiness due to we have fat pads around our eye. Sockets of those fat pads are pooching forward. And so the surgery removes the fat pads and it kind of makes it smoother. So these are common procedures. Go to somebody who really understands the anatomy. That's what I would say, number one. So there are lots of people, different types of doctors who do the surgery. You can go to see like a plastic surgeon, but I would recommend somebody who specializes in oculoplastics, meaning that they're trained in ophthalmology and they've done a fellowship in the eyelids. So they're super, super specialized to the eyelids. Most people have a great outcome. And just a couple of caveats. Again, I just want to make everyone aware of what can happen if you have dry eye. Let your doctor know that you have dry eye, because if you get that surgery and they do a little bit too much, your dry eye can be a lot, lot worse. So just let them know ahead of time, I have dry eyes so they can be conservative when they do that surgery.

Sounds like you should just tell them that anyway, because wouldn't you want them to be conservative?

Yes, they just like want that wide eyed look and they tell their doctor, I just want my eyes nice and open and I can see. But you know, it's a balance. You don't want your eyes to be like wide, wide open because then it's just gonna make them more dry. Or maybe if you're light sensitive, it's gonna make you more light sensitive. So just be, you know, moderation is key, as with everything. Right.

So what about, you know, especially as we're aging, makeup, I hesitate a little.

Bit because I personally, I don't wear any eye makeup. And it's just a personal choice. It's not because it's not a good idea to wear eye makeup. But you know, there are some healthy eye makeup practices that you should be aware of. So first of all, a lot of people wear, will wear eyeliner on their lower lids or even on their upper lids, and they'll cover the Waterline. If you bring your eyelid down, you see where the lashes come out. And inside of that is the waterline. And there are tiny little glands there that help produce our tears. And when you wear eye makeup on that waterline, you're basically blocking all those glands. You're not allowing them to secrete tears, and your eyes are going to get super dry and irritated. I know a lot of people, when I tell them, don't do it, they're like, oh, but that's how I do it. But I tell them, don't cover the waterline. Put it on the under surface, just on the outside of there. In terms of mascara, mascara has a lot of tiny little particles that it leaves, and it can get into your eyes. It can get into the tear film. It can cause a lot of dryness. You know, experiment with different brands and just see which brand your eyes feel most comfortable with. But definitely, if you have dry eyes, try to stay away from mascara that's really thick. And also, if you wear, like, eyeshadow, especially, like, the metallic ones, where they have, like, the little minerals in them that can get into your eyes also and cause a lot of irritation. So try to stay away from that type of eye makeup if you're really sensitive. But overall, I think most people wear eye makeup. It's not an issue. Just be aware of these little things.

Okay, hold on. You have no mascara on?

No.

You look like this. So if you're not watching this video or seeing something on Instagram with Dr. Rani, that is amazing. Holy smokes. Talk about natural beauty.

You should see my daughter's eyelashes. Oh, my God.

She.

She's got these gorgeous long lashes, and she wants to cut them. And I say, why do you want lashes? And she says, because they keep curling in and going inside my eye and they're poking me. I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, just wait. Do not cut your lashes. Just wait until you're a little bit older. You're going to be so, so grateful that you have these long, beautiful lashes. But, you know, the truth is, I'll tell you why I don't wear eye makeup. This is kind of silly, but it's not because I know what can happen or a dry eye or any of that that I just explained. It's just because I can never get it right. No one ever taught me how to put it on correctly, so it's even and symmetric, and when it's not even, then it kind of really annoys me. So I just decide not to wear it. So that's my reason for not wearing eye makeup.

I just honestly can't believe you look this way and you haven't. I'm very jealous. Sitting here looking at Beyond Carrots that talks about the best foods for eye health, which this book is so great and so user friendly too, and beautiful. It's so pretty, all the pretty colors and everything.

But you know, my daughter, I keep talking about my daughter, but she actually did the layout for my book. She, she. Well when she did it, she was 14, now she's 15. She has a. An eye for. Pun intended, an eye for design and she helped me with the layout and I was like, wow, I'm going to use this. And I actually, I did it that way because I wanted it to be user friendly. Like I didn't want it to be bogged down with scientific jargon. I wanted people to be able to look through it with their families, with their kids and be able to pick out foods that they want, may want to try maybe something they've never had before. All these different foods can support your eyes. So yeah, that's the goal is to get it into as many people's hands as possible and get them to use the material and make a practical impact.

It is beautiful. So it would be remiss not to talk a little bit about food. I know we mentioned some things, but where I'd love to go with this is what would be some of the things we'd want to absolutely not do or limit that could be problematic for our eyes.

So we've all probably heard by now about the SAD diet, Standard American diet. And so we know there are studies showing that people who are on a SAD diet have higher rates of macular degeneration. So that's just a no brainer, like you want to avoid SAD types of foods. And then in terms of what we should do or maybe even promote even more, as I was talking about the macular carotenoids earlier, lutein, zeaxanthin. So it's estimated we need. I'm gonna get a little scientific and nerdy here, but it's estimated that we need about 6.5 milligrams of lutein a day to keep our eyes healthy. And most people are probably only getting one to two milligrams a day. So you really have to boost your intake of those foods with lutein and zeaxanthin to help support your retina, to prevent macular degeneration, to prevent cataracts. So it's really important that you have foods in your diet. Rotate through the foods, and then maybe even take an eye health supplement. So I'm a big proponent of supplementation for eye health because most people just are not getting enough of these nutrients in their diet as it is.

Well, I mean, here's the thing. Like, the minute you said that, I go, sounds like you should take a supplement just to ensure that you're getting it right, because what's the risk if you got some extra lutein versus not having enough?

And actually, like I said earlier, it'll help your brain health, too. And there are some studies, there's a couple of studies that show that it can help with patients with breast cancer and prostate cancer. So additional benefits, not just eye and brain health. So I think they're really powerful nutrients. They're. They don't get enough buzz, just like eye health doesn't get enough buzz in the healthcare world. These nutrients are so powerful. They're antioxidants, and they can protect so many different parts of your body. So why not?

Especially since people are scared right now. Like, there's veggie fear out there. That's not.

I know, I know.

It's making things worse.

I'll tell you one other thing. So veggie fear. Most foods that have lutein, zeaxanthin, are plant products, plant foods. But you can also get them from egg yolk. So you know that beautiful orange yellow color of egg yolk, that's because it's so rich in lutein and zeaxanthin. So if you love eggs, don't throw away the yolk. Eat the yolk, please.

Well, when you eat the yolk, you actually are gonna do better with your protein. Even though the yolk's where the fat is, it's gonna help you with bile production and protein absorption. And the big one, I say there because I like to say you are what you eat. 8. Like, you can just see the difference if you get a factory egg versus a pastured egg. And the difference. And I actually had a client tell me this once, Ronnie. They. I said, you've got to eat pastured egg. She goes, I don't like the bright orange yolk of a pastured egg. I'm like, what? You want that pale yellow wind?

Do you think it was radioactive or something?

But it was like, wow, I can't believe you just said that. That's the exact opposite. So I do want to talk about. Because you created a blend, and I'm looking through your book here, you created a blend. I think this blend is fortify. Is it fortify?

That's got Fortify. Yeah, actually, I have it back here. So this is something. Well, what I did was when I was writing my book, I was researching a lot of the I health supplements on the market. And what I realized is that there was no formulation that really had everything I thought an eye health supplement should have. So this blend includes lutein zeaxanthin, and then there's a third one too, meso zeaxanthin. That's probably the most important of all. So it has all three. It has astaxanthin and I think astaxanthin is also the hot new antioxidant out there. It's been around for a while, but people are using it for skin health, for their immune health. But it's got great benefits for eye health too. And it also has berry extracts. So berries are super critical for eye health. They have these dark, dark pigments, specifically, like blueberries, blackberries. These pigments get absorbed by the eye. They help protect your retina, protect against oxidative stress. So this blend has all of that in there. The specific berry blends that are shown for eye health, to help with macular degeneration and glaucoma and cataracts.

Very cool. So I'm going to put in the show notes, your beyond carrots book, and then we can link to these supplements as well. And we're also going to link to your IQ test. E Y E Q. Tell everyone what they'll find out by taking this quiz.

It's an online quiz. It's pretty short. It only takes about five, six minutes to do. And it'll ask you a couple of questions about your history, your eye history, your family history, your habits, and then it'll give you a score. And based off of your score, you will know whether you're at low risk, medium risk, or high risk for vision issues. And then I can give you some pointers and tips on what you can do, depending on which category you fall into. So it's kind of a quick and simple way to get an assessment of how healthy your eyes are. Even if you haven't been to the eye doctor in a couple of years, you can get a sense of, okay, am I, am I at like low risk for vision issues? What should I do for that? If am I at high risk for vision issues? What do I really need to do for that?

So fantastic. And then get your annual eye exam. Dilated eye exam. Who knew?

Yeah, I have to say, next time you're in New York, come and see me so I can do your Eye exam. I would love.

Oh my gosh, are you kidding?

I'm glad with that.

February, that's what I'll do. Because I'm like first of all to never hear you should be back every year. I'm just, you blew my mind with that. That I've never heard this before from any of the doctors I've seen.

It is the recommendation and I think you just maybe need to do a public service campaign teaching doctors like, okay, this is what you have to tell your patients and then they' do it just like they go for their colonoscopies and mammograms and everything.

So yeah, the primary care doc should be the ones orchestrating all of this.

They only really tell people who are diabetic, like, go get your eye exam because that is a, you know, standard of care. But regular eye exams are a standard of care too.

So yeah, there you go. You had so many one liners in this interview, by the way. You speak in one liners and that was one of them. You really. We've gotta be out. You gotta get out more because the world needs this message. I thank you so much for doing this with me. I'm totally taking you up on that because I'll be there in February. I'm coming for you. I'm coming in to see you. And for everybody listening, we're going to put all of this@jjvirgin.com IQ E, Y, E Q. And that will be the link to the book, link to this supplement that we talked about, link to the quiz. We will spell out that exam that you need, the way you need to have your exam done. The whatever you cycloplegic something. I wrote it down. And thank you again so much for your time.

Thank you.

Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look and feel great and more importantly, that you're built to last. And check me out on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and my website, jjvirgin.com com and make sure to follow my podcast so you don't miss a single episode at subscribetoj. Com. See you next time.