Is Your IBS Really SIBO? with Shivan Sarna

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Hey, this is JJ Virgin. Welcome and thanks so much for joining me. This is Ask the Health Expert here. I put the power of health in your hands and give you access to the top people in health and wellness. In each episode, I share safe ways to get healthy, lose weight, heal your.

Gut, detox, and lots more.

So if you want to get healthy and get off the dieting for life merry go round, I'll give you strategies that will help you look and feel better fast. All right. I am super excited about today's interview. I have Siobhan Sarno with me. She's the author of Healing Sibo. She's a TV host and the creator of the Sibo SOS summits and Community, the Digestion SOS documentary series, the Gut and Microbiome Rescue Summit, the Lymphatic Rescue Summit, the Dental Health Connection Summit, and the chronic condition research 501c3 to 4 further research underfunded medical conditions and you're going to be blown away by her story, but more blown away by what can cause Sibo. I just, I had to get back up. I kind of fell on the floor when she was talking and then I thought, I need to order a test quickly so she'll tell her story. But basically she had a lifetime of health issues and she just made the decision she was going to figure it all out and now she's going to share that information with others. She does a lot of great research, she does a lot of great interviews and she gave us so much value in this. I am so excited to share it with you, especially to really kind of break down sibo, which still is relatively new out there. People don't understand what it is. I, I didn't know what it was until I encountered it with some of my clients who had weight loss resistance. And until we handled this, not was changing. So pretty fascinating, but I wasn't aware of some of the things that can cause it. And I'm not telling you, you have to listen. This is definitely one you're going to want to take Notes on. She also has her SIBO SOS guide that you can grab for free at jjvirgin.com SIBO S O S. That's S I B O S O s. So make sure you grab that as well. All right, I'll be right back with Siobhan.

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Siobhan Sarno, welcome to the show.

Hi jj. So good to see you. So good to be here. Let's talk Sibo and fly.

Let's talk Sibo. Because I know that this is why Sibo is controversial is beyond me. But you know, I know it can even be a little controversial. So I really want to unpack Sibo. I'd love to know how you got to be so into this, like becoming the expert on Sibo. What. What led you to this?

Well, I've probably had it since I was 5. I went to India with my parents on a, their business was importing and I went, you know, tagged along on a buying trip because I was five and got really sick with food poisoning. Came home back to New York City and we at Dalton Fancy School, we went on a country field trip and we went to a farm in upstate New York and we milked cows and it was like city slickers. It was really cute and fun. And when the teacher wasn't looking, a couple of us were like, oh, wonder what it tastes like. And we tasted the milk and damn if I didn't get sick. I had these episodes as a young person of getting food poisoning, which is the number one underlying cause of IBS and sibo.

Really? Wow.

Yes. That is the big thing I want to show you. Wow.

That is a mic dropper.

Yes.

Holy smokes. And why is that?

It is because of the antibodies that your body produces to the E. Coli and the klebsiella and the other things that cause food poisoning. They do something called molecular mimicry, and they confuse the sweeping wave of the small intestine known as the migrating motor complex. MMC for short. And because they look so similar, those antibodies confuse it, which is obviously layman's terms. And so that sweeping motion doesn't sweep out, it allows the small intestine to become like what I call a microbrewery. And to ferment your food with either the methane producers or the hydrogen producers or the hydrogen sulfide producers, which would normally just like move out. Right. But because you're migrating motor complexes and sweeping them out, they hang out there, they eat your food, they fart it out as either any of those gases, I just said, and that's what leads to bloating, constipation, diarrhea, alternating constipation or diarrhea, and a variety of other things that really, you should try to get this resolved as soon as possible because it can lead to a lot of other health issues down the road. And it's getting studied more and more. So it is caused by something else, but it also causes other things.

Wow. I'm just blown away about this. That.

Wow.

Okay.

Right.

Thank you for having that moment with me and really hearing that, because I literally. A blog from a very well respected probiotic company, not Microbiome Labs, because he knows, but they were saying, you know, IBS has unknown causes. And I'm like shouting at my computer screen now. It doesn't.

Ah.

So I'm writing that it just makes.

You realize then that if you've had food poisoning. And I'm just thinking of all the times that I've had food poisoning, Right. That because you don't think about it, you think, oh, I had food poisoning, and now I'm fine, you know, And. And so now what it sounds like is if you have food poisoning, you actually need to actively recover. Like, you just think, oh, I threw up. It's out. Right, Right. And, you know, maybe I need some electrolytes. But you don't think you have to actually repair anything, you know?

And for some people with their immune system, they might be fine, their microbiome might be so robust that the, you know, gatekeepers can keep the E. Coli and Klebsiella, which Dr. Mark Pimentel from Cedars Sinais has proven are the main bad players. Maybe they can keep them in check, but when they're allowed to overgrow. And that also means, you know, the archai, which is the intestinal methanogen overgrowth known as methane. Sibo, but it's a nomenclature train change happening in the midst. But when, like, other like you and I go out to dinner and we have summer bok with us, right? And we all eat salad, and you eat it, and you're fine. Summer eats it, and she's like, oh, I feel a little upset, or she's totally fine, and I eat it, and I'm like, oh, I am sick. Your immune system and microbiomes might just be powerful enough to overtake whatever was naughty. And I, having been exposed to food poisoning so many times, are more susceptible to it. So the more food poison you have, the more susceptible to it you become. And there are other underlying causes, but this is the big reveal. This is the big surprise for so many people. There are adhesions and endometriosis and ehlers danlos, the collagen disorder and scleroderma and opioid use and traumatic brain injuries that can. And thyroid conditions that can all contribute to the slowing of the migrating motor complex. But most. But. And that. Very valid. But most people who have ibs, as a majority, are experiencing post infectious ibs, which is sibo.

Wow.

Yep.

Okay. This is like, literally, again, jaw dropping. I've never heard this. This is incredible. So let's unpack what SIBO is then. Since we just talked about this as a root cause, I want to know what other root causes. But before we go there, for people listening, what is sibo? How the heck do you know if you have it?

Great. So SIBO is small intestine bacterial overgrowth or intestinal methanogen overgrowth, and they're just generated by two alternative sort of microbes. And so are you bloated? Do you have constipation? Do you have alternating constipation and diarrhea? Do you have diarrhea and do you have rosacea? Do you have restless leg syndrome? And then, you know, a lot of people with GERD feel like it's connected just that. Do you have ibs? Have you gone to the doctor and he or she said to you, yeah, you got ibs. Eat low fodmap. See ya. Okay, bye.

Bye.

It's a diagnosis of exclusion, like, you know, which I was told and given an antidepressant and told to run three.

An antidepressant?

Yeah. And I. Yes. Well, I think that that doctor was trying to get my serotonin levels balanced, but he didn't say that to me. And so I just thought he thought I was being like, you know, a hyster woman. He told me to run three miles. Well, I also had mold exposure from the TV station for 20 years, so. But didn't know it at the time. So the thought of getting up and running anywhere other than away from the doctor was like, not happening because I was so inflamed and so sick. But I'd had SIBO way before the mold. The mold just makes it harder to clear.

Are doctors now recognizing that this is a thing and testing for it? Because, you know, I still, it still seems like one that people don't really understand or believe is real.

Correct. There is a larger and larger population believing that it's real because the data is there, the science is there. If someone says that it isn't real, with all due respect, I really want them to dig into Dr. Pimentel's science and then the hundreds of other research studies around the world that are supporting these premises. So it is real. There are tests that you can do and they're, you know, SIBO breath tests, lactulose as being the substrate. You drink the substrate. You, after a certain fast and special diet for 24 hours, this fast is 12 hours. And then you blow into these tubes periodically, this sort of schedule over two or three hours. You can do the test at home. There is one test that now tests for all three gases, which is a big development, and that is Triosmart by Gemelli Labs. And you can even, you know how like you can go online, I guess, and buy Viagra after you fill out a questionnaire even though it's prescription. Well, they small fee, you can fill out this questionnaire, have a chit chat with a doctor and get like screened. And yes, they will send you the test kit. Not probably in New York.

It's to me so ridiculous that we have to have a prescription for a lab test anyway. It's like, you know, and then so I. I'm really pro direct to consumer lab testing. I think this whole thing is silly, ridiculous.

Especially because lactulose is a sugar that is used just because the body doesn't absorb it. In other countries, you can go into like their version of CPS and get it. Anyway, so it is a breath test. You can do an aspirate when you're doing, you know, an endoscopy, colonoscopy type. But, you know, that is like a lovely gold standard. But for the rest of us, yeah, doing a sibo breath test is great.

Okay. So it's something you could do at home. You can order this test online. We'll put that in the notes. That's amazing. So you get diagnosed first of all, like beyond the food poisoning. What are, what are the reasons people get sibo and what are some of the symptoms? Like, what would be. You said constipation, diarrhea, bloating, bloating, bloating, bloating, bloating. And you know what? I've seen bloating. Whether you ate or not, you just bloat. Any other key symptoms?

I mean, weird ferritin levels, weird iron levels, weird B12 levels. Because the theories are that the bacteria eats the iron and that it doesn't allow your body to absorb the B vitamins properly. So there's some other like. But that wouldn't be like, oh, that's weird. On my blood test, I think I have sibo. There are other things that mimic sibo, like parasites and candida. So the symptoms are identical. So I always say test, don't guess. And therefore, like, let's say you think you have sibo and you get a negative test. Okay, did you do the prep diet and the fast properly and then did you do the test tubes properly and then. Okay, it's negative. Cool. Go get a parasite test and not from your usual quest. And labcorp. If those are positive, they're positive. If they're negative, it doesn't mean that you don't have them. Right. So you have para wellness. You have parasite testing. You have your GI map. Those are, you know, full of great information. And then, you know, check for your candida overgrowth because those two mimic it. But the other thing is, jj, I hear stories very rarely, thank goodness. But bloating can also be caused by ovarian cancer and other more serious things. So please don't let this go unchecked.

Yeah. I mean, bloating, constipation, diarrhea are not things to just let go.

Right? And we normalize them because we're not talking about them to our boyfriend, girlfriend, family. Like, we're just, like, hoping the loose top you're wearing hides it.

Well, not only that, and this is what's so ridiculous. So you can't, you know, they don't want you to be able to order lab tests, but yet you can go to the pharmacy and buy every single OTC thing to help with diarrhea, constit, constipation, gas, and bloating. I mean, it's like the biggest aisle in the pharmacy. And this is really problematic because you do not want to just cover this up.

It is a huge, huge business. And I. You know, I acknowledge conspiracies like that because they are real, but I don't spend a lot of time ruminating it. I just want to fix things. But, yeah, it's a big business.

So the.

What would it look like? Okay, I asked Dr. Pimentel this. I went for a big surgery. Let's say. Let's say you're in deep anesthesia. Then you get out and you're on pain meds because you had your knee recap placed or whatever. Could that lead to intestinal overgrowth in the small intestine? The answer is yes, because that deep anesthesia really closes things down. And then the opioids or the pain meds inhibit the migrating motor complex. And so you could literally get like, wow, you know, I had that surgery, and my knee's great, but my gut's kind of weird. Or I had that food poisoning, and I feel better, but I still feel like, a little funny. Those are signs. A third of the people that get, you know, SIBO get cleared up with one round of treatment, which is exciting, but for people who have maybe adhesions or any, you know, thyroid issues, it may take multiple rounds.

Mm.

All right, we're gonna talk about how you clear it up. I will be right back. Stay with me. The holidays are almost here, but there's still time to score great gifts at Dick's Sporting Goods. Find everyone's must have gifts from Nike, FP movement, Adidas, and more. Need your gifts fast. Stop by your local Dick's or shop Dick's.com for fast shipping, curbside pickup, or same day delivery. Every holiday starts at Dick's.

Thanks.

All right, so I know I left a cliffhanger, because the most important thing here is. Okay, now you can figure out if You've had. Seems like to me, and I didn't know that about surgery either. Like, so if you've had surgery, if you've had food poisoning, like, there are so many reasons to check this out. If you've got any of these symptoms and it's an easy thing to do now, someone checks it out and they discover they have it. Now what?

Okay, so you can get on a low fermentation Diet, like Dr. Allison Siebecker's SIBO specific food guide. And what that does is, and this is so important, it does not cure sibo. It controls the symptoms. So you can feel pretty miserable, right? Inflamed, you know, uncomfortable gut, tummy issues, hyper, visceral hypersensitivity is very common. And. But if you can control that fermentation load, which is, you know, unfortunately, fibers. So when I did my book, I put all the recipes in as vegetarian, because I'm a vegetarian. But also, like, if you want to add protein, go for it. But the hardest part is doing the veggies and stuff because they feed off the fiber. So if you can get your symptoms under control, that's like super relief right there. And that can be done through diet, but it does not cure Sibo because it does not reduce the overload of the bacteria. Then you do a treatment. There are two, three options. One is the elemental diet. And this is a liquid diet, which sounds insane. You do it temporarily. It is originally the amino acids for feeding tubes. And it tastes super disgusting. It was Vivinex by Nestle for ages. Not really designed to be consumed, to taste. It tastes like vomit. But then companies got like Integrative Therapeutics, Dr. Michael Ruscio, they made formulations that are actually quite. I'm going to go with tasty, which is a little bit of a push, but help do it. And so you do that for 14 to 17 days. And it's very important to retest to find out whether or not it's really down enough. And what that's doing is starving the. The bacterial overgrowth so it gets digested so quickly in the upper part of the gut that it doesn't even get a chance to go and feed the little bastards. So then after every treatment that is taking you to a negative SIBO breath test, you need to do a prokinetic, which might. Which stimulates and is like a symphony for your migrating motor complex. And that's what helps to reduce relapse because people will say, oh, you know, it comes back all the time. Well, a lot of those people are not Doing a prokinetic, which is the key to do preventing relapse and is beautiful at that job. And there are a couple of natural ones like the gingers and the modal pros, and then there's some prescription ones like procalopride, Zel, Norm, and then just wanted to throw that in because that little part about the prokinetics works for every treatment style, which is that and the pro connect.

So, so you use an elemental diet, then you do this pro or whatever it is that you did to reduce it. And the prokinetics. What exactly. What exactly is this and what exactly does it do?

It helps your migrating motor complex do that sweeping motion. So if your migrating motor complex is impaired because of an adhesion pulling it out, or scleroderma, or you've been on opioids for so long, it just is like, you know, gotten tired and doesn't really work that well, then it helps with sweeping the motion, getting that migrating motor complex to sweep out the small intestine. It's like a microperastalsis.

Hmm. Is there a way to know if that's working or not?

Great question. The not really. The best way to know is if you don't get your sibo back, which is not ideal, obviously. Iberogast is another good one that is kind of a miracle. It helps people with diarrhea, constipation, and the migrating motor complex. That's like a. A little bit more of an obscure one, but like a naturopath secret trick. And it also helps with nausea. So the other two treatments are antibiotics, but not what you think, because I thought, oh, heavens, no, not that. And then herbal antimicrobials. So for the antibiotics, it is the drug rifaximin that is for the hydrogen producers, which is also xifaxan, and it's what you get for traveler's diarrhea. So you see this little sort of pattern, like, yeah, the overgrowth. And then if you have the methanogens, which is the more constipation prone, and what's known as imo, previously known as methane sibo, you add either neomycin or metronidazole, and you have to do it in combination. So what's cool about xifaxan or rifaximin, is that it stays in the small intestine and it actually helps the microbiome. It's wild and wonderful and you can do multiple rounds.

So when it's going in there, it's not hurting any of your good bacteria.

Right. So the Other two, like the flagyl and the. Excuse me, not Flagyl, but the neomycin and the metronidrozole, those are, like, gonna nuke it. But, you know, like, you got to figure. Figure out what your target is here. So once, once you do a treatment, which is usually two weeks, you want to retest. And what's weird, what was weird for me when I first did it, I was like, I'm used to taking one round of antibiotics and having my UTI go away or whatever, fill in the blank. And this is about doing multiple rounds, trying to reduce that bacterial load and to get it to a place where you have this negative sibo breath test. And even then, you may have to, like, work on gut rebuilding and, you know, be careful with your diet and do that prokinetic. And within 30 days, many people have their symptoms resolved. But so that's. And that's a two week program. And okay to do repetitions of that. And then there is the herbals, which is really cool because the naturopaths have worked very closely with major medical traditional leaders. Like, and a lot of that is because Dr. See Becker and Dr. Pimentel have like, done conferences where they were both speakers. It's been a beautiful collaboration in many ways. And that is herbal combinations of, you know, berberine and oil, of oregano and allicin, the, you know, active ingredient in garlic. But don't eat some garlic because that can mess you up because it's high fodmap and you will ferment. But the allicin, which is the active ingredient, that works like a charm. There is Candy backed in AR&BR. There is, you know, neem is a little booster on top of all of that. So those have really, actually been studied really nicely and shown to give great results. But that's a four week protocol. Good news, you don't need a script. Bad news, it takes you a little bit longer. But is it nuking the microbiome? Probably a little bit, but not necessarily as much as some of the neomycin and the metronidazole. And because, I mean, I always say speak with your practitioner, but sometimes you're gonna have to educate that practitioner. But if you're like, well, shouldn't they.

Just find a practitioner? They don't have to educate.

That would be great. And that is our goal. No, believe me, that is our goal. But, but they're, they're. Yeah, you live in the middle of who knows where and telemedicine is not an option for you, and you've got a doctor who will write you a script for rifaximin, but they're not quite sure of the dosage, et cetera. You know, I would walk into the office with my studies and God bless Dr. Michael Shulman, Largo, Florida. Shout out to you, man. He was like, oh, thanks. They didn't teach me this in medical school. Yeah, where's my script pad? And we got.

So if you can't find someone who knows about it already, then at least find someone who wants to learn about it. Yes. Didn't you write a book on this?

I did. I'm sorry, I thought you did.

So they can just. Can't they just take your book in to the doctor?

Yeah, yeah. Healing Sibo. You absolutely could. And Dr. Pimentel's new book just came out like last week, and it is the Microbiome Collect Connect. Excuse me, connection. Your guide to ibs, Sibo and low fermentation Eating. I mean, between these two books, you're in fantastic shape. Seriously.

And so you could, theoretically, because you could test at home, you could do this purely at home. And if you can't fix it with either doing the elemental diet and the prokinetic, the natural ones, or just. Or doing the herbal plan, then you would go to the doctor, I would assume. And with the herbal plan, what do you need to do after the herbal plan to restore your gut microbiome? Because it's going to do a little bit. Wreak a little havoc in there, isn't it?

Sure, yeah. Yeah. So what you would want to do is test after your month, see how you're doing. If you're negative, awesome sauce. If not, maybe do another couple of weeks or a couple of rounds. It depends on how high your gas levels are. And then you want to get on that prokinetic. And some are not prescription like I listed before. And then.

Well, I know you listed ginger. What other non descriptions, like Iberogast, which.

Is like an herbal formulation that has like Russian writing on it that you get on Amazon. Serious.

Well, at least you don't have to buy it with bitcoin off somewhere, which I've had to do with some of my stuff. It's like, oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

Russian peptides.

Yeah, you got to do what you got to do so you can do that for your herbals. And then. Okay, so rebuilding the microbiome. So the specialist that I've been talking to for these several years now, I started in 2015, the question for my mind was like, shouldn't I get my microbiome in really good shape first or like, shouldn't I get on a probiotic ASAP pdq, right? Like, like to rebuild it now? There are different, different theories and people have different experiences. I know some people, they get on Megaspore and they're like, boom. I'm all, well, because that's what they needed. I know other people are like, oh, I'm on a probiotic and first three days, I'm not sure if I can carry on. Oh, I stuck through it and I did it just a little bit less. And now two weeks and I feel amazing. Other people are like, this is not for me. I'm going to wait until I clear the sibo. So there's some controversy about when timing, but it's also so personal. So Dr. Pimentel is actually, by the way, like, he doesn't pay me or anything.

I'm just going to say, oh, my gosh.

I'm thinking like Nobel medical prizes in the future because he and Dr. Ali Rezai are mapping the small intestine microbiome. So all that stuff that happened in the 90s for the large intestine, they're actually, like, showing that it was not quite what we all thought and that the small intestine, by the way, has an entirely different microbiome than the large intestine. It's fantastic. And that once you resolve the sibo, that the disproportionate levels of the E. Coli and the klebsiella, for example, go back down to normal, because the rest of the. Without necessarily, like, he's not a huge probiotic fan. Without necessarily doing that, but simply having them lower the, you know, homeostasis of the microbiome and its brilliance often comes back into balance. So it's super cool. Yeah, it's very exciting. And the prokinetics, as I mentioned, herbal iberogast and other other, you know, easy to acquire ingredients are out there that, like, I. And, oh, this is good meal spacing. So, jj, you cannot have your migrator motor complex, migrating motor complex work if you have food in your tummy. If food in your stomach, calories taken in will turn off the sweeping motion of the migrating motor complex. Because it's saying, hey, food, I don't want to sweep that out too soon. And so you go for four or five hours, if possible, without any calories. And that also encourages the sweeping motion.

This makes me super happy because it's yet another reason to stop snacking. And you just wonder if, you know, we've just compiled the Problem since the. I was looking at. When did. When did all of this really bad misinformation start? I think it was probably the 80s. It was all the. Remember the big fat free. I was living in LA at the time. I was actually personal training people out of the Pritikin center, where they were teaching you to eat six times a day and to get your fat down to 10% of your calories. So you can imagine, you know, you were eating all day long, you were starving, but, you know, you just wonder if that just compiled the problem, too, you know?

Well, and then you hear about the intermittent fasting and how people's lives are so transformed for a variety of reasons, and maybe their SIBO clears up. I mean, I'd feel better, too, right? So the other thing is, I'm managing mine. So I do have those antibodies, and over time, sometimes those antibodies just resolve, which is exciting and hopeful. But my company's called Chronic Condition Rescue, because when I was in that moldy building, I had alopecia, I had psoriasis, I had sibo. I was old Lyme, old ebv, hot mess. And I was like, I want to tell. I'm figuring all this out, and I'm going to tell the world. So it's Chronic Condition Rescue sibo SOS was my first project. And it's like nine summits later now on all these topics like liver, gallbladder, and lymphatic system and fascia and chronic pain is coming up. And what happened for me was I got my whole situation under control. So an unmanaged chronic condition can lead to true living tragedy, whereas a managed chronic condition, you can feel 100% better. And so I had to get out of my head of this. Like, I want to be cured in the traditional sense. And just when I got through that grief that it wasn't going to be, like, you know, perfect on paper, I was like, I'm free. It was beautiful. So this is a message of hope for people, for sure.

It's interesting, too, because, you know, you describe this as, when I was five years old, this happened, and then this happened. And I remember hearing. I'm trying to remember who it was. I think it might have been Bob Rowntree talking about, like, if you're. If you did antibiotics in the first year, two first two years of life, like, your gut microbiome is, like, going to be messed up forever. And it's like, okay, you know, we have these things that, sure, we might not ever be able to cure them, but if we've Gotten everything. So we feel great. Okay, cool. You know, and you might just find that certain foods, like, just don't work for you. Right. Are going to be problematic. So. But I think it's really interesting because, you know, the fact that things like food poisoning and surgery could, could be, you know, the precursors to this and this is not talked about is so key, critical. You know, it's, it's, it's, it.

Seriously. I had a nail tech that I would go to religiously every two weeks because I had like to have TV lady hands for selling jewelry. And like, I spent more time with her. I like did many people I know and love and she's a lovely person. But two years in, we started talking about our health and I'm like, wait a minute, you have gut issues. Wait, I'm like building this platform to teach people about gut health. And she taught me some things and I taught her some things and we just don't usually talk about it. Right. So I wanted to open that conversation up. I'm not into poop emojis. I'm not into that. I'm not going to like, you know, that's just not me. I am into like a respect for the body and let's be grown ups and get this out there. And great news is that, you know, we've had millions and millions of downloads, which is just so fricking rewarding. But it's only the tip of the iceberg, right? Only the tip. So what you learned today, what you learned from J.J. tell everybody who will listen to you, they will thank you for it.

Well, and there's just no reason to suffer. And I think that's the most important thing. Especially, especially so many of these things that no going to talk about. I, I still remember I was walking through a department store when I was in college and shortcutting through this department store to get back to school after teaching an aerobics class. And this girl asked me when I was due.

Oh, jj, you never forget those moments.

Never, never. First of all, it made me go, I'll never ask someone that ever. Unless like, you know, unless they're wearing a shirt that says baby. And as an arrow, I'm not asking. Right. But you know, I mean, those types of things where you feel shame and like, why I didn't do anything that would have caused that, you know, wasn't like I was sitting there going over to the corner donut shop and eating 20 donuts. Right. So it is, it is interesting. I love the fact that you've Got a guide you're giving everybody so you can download this immediately and get some information here. Of course you're going to want to get healing sibo as well. But tell us what's in the sibo IBS SOS guidelines.

It's basically an overview of some of the things I just talked about and how to get the next steps for testing and some resources. And just walk into your doctor's office with this guide that will really help. I mean, it's just a beginning of this conversation, but it does talk about how IBS is primarily caused by food poisoning and then a description of the different types. It's a primer. It is a great springboard for next steps.

Nice. It really feels like to me if you've got those symptoms that you should do an at home test. There's no reason not to that I can see. And like you would definitely want to know if this is an issue. So I super appreciate you making it so simple for people to do that. You'll be able to get that@jjvirgin.com CBOsOS so that's s I B O S O S and I know you're probably trying to scribble notes and write down some of these things. You're like, I don't know how to spell it. Don't worry, it's in there. And then I'd also recommend grabbing healing sibo as well by Siobhan sarna. And again www.jjvirgin.com Sibosos all right, well, thank you so much for like, this was a very enlightening interview to say the least. Holy smokes.

Thank you JJ for all you do and for having me today.

So you see what I mean here? Like, I had no idea that surgeries and food poisoning could cause sibo. So I'm definitely ordering the test and I would highly recommend you you if you have any of those symptoms and have been in any of those situations, do too. And again, make sure that you grab her free guide. It's at jjvirgin.com forward/sibo SOS and remember to subscribe so you don't miss any of this amazing content. See you next time.

Foreigners. This is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I check all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And, of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast, and Visit our website, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.