Neuro Hacking Techniques for Stress with Tony Wrighton.

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Hey, it's JJ Virgin. And welcome to the JJ Virgin Lifestyle.

Show where I give you the latest.

Cutting edge intel to help you look.

Feel and think better. Now, today's show is all about neurohacking. All right, you're gonna hear more about.

That, what it is and how you can literally relax in a minute. What I love is you're going to hear today is it's all about those little hinges that swing the big doors. And one of the biggest things that you can do for your health is to chill out. In fact, you know, if you're stressed out, if you're not getting good sleep, you can be doing everything else right. And it's going to make your blood sugar wonky, can make you store more fat around your waist, it can make you crave more sugar.

And you're probably sitting there going, I know, I know.

But I've got the most awesome person to walk you through some simple NLP techniques. You'll learn why he's kind of reframed them as neural hacks today. And plus you're gonna love listening to.

This guy because he has got an.

Awesome British accent to make it even better. So I've got Tony Wrighton on the show today. He is an NLP trainer, he's a master practitioner. He actually got the highest level of training in NLP that there is. He's written three books published by Virgin Books, they're translated into 12 languages. And he has NLP audiobooks, have sold over a hundred thousand copies and have been top 10 bestsellers in iTunes in countries all over the world. He also, I just was a guest on his podcast, the top rated Zestology and he's just an awesome, I mean you're going to love, love hearing this guy. And I made sure cause we're talking to some offline, I'm like, oh, you've got to tell that story. So I got some dug into some stuff that I think he doesn't typically share, especially about how he really started getting into nlp. Plus you're gonna find that he's a buddy of our brother Dave Asprey's too, and he's been to 40 years of Zen as well. So today's show is all about how to relax in a minute and. And my guest is the awesome Tony Wrighton.

All right, let's do it. Tony. Righton. Welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here with me today.

Jj, how you doing? Thank you for having me on your podcast.

Well, I'm excited about this because we've actually never talked about NLP at all on this podcast. I can't believe it either. So I have the perfect person to talk about it here.

So.

So let's dive in just with how did you get started in. Well, first of all, what is nlp and how did you get started in it?

Yeah, what is nlp? Is an excellent question. I think that's my most clicked upon blog post because people are really interested in NLP and millions of people use it all over the world in kind of therapy and communication and sales and sports and everything else. But it's a very bad name. It stands for Neuro Linguistic Programming. It was invented in the seventies. In the seventies kind of computers were just becoming the big thing and therefore they felt like everything that was invented in terms of therapy had to have a computer re sounding name. And that's why it's called nlp. It's a bad name for an excellent set of skills. I sometimes think if you called it neurohacking instead, it'd be a little bit more clear on what it does in terms of changing the brain's reaction to emotions and getting the best out of your communication with other people and yourself as well.

Excellent. Plus that's much more zeitgeist Right now, the hacking word. So, all right, so we'll go with neurohacking. They're like, I want that. All right, so how did you discover it and. Cause you're like a ninja master in this, right?

I'm a ninja master. I've trained to the highest level in nlp and I'm a TV presenter here in the uk, but I use on a sports channel. But I used to be a radio presenter and I started learning this stuff about 12 years ago and I thought I've got the perfect playground to try out all these techniques, these linguistic techniques to make people feel better about listening to my show and perhaps get them listening a little bit longer as well. And after a couple of months, the boss called me into his office and it was on one of the days when I'd used quite a lot of these linguistic techniques and I thought I was going to get rumbled. I thought he'd listened to me. It was too obvious what I'd been saying. And he said to me, I don't know what you've been doing, but your listening figures have gone through the roof. And that was the first time that I realized that this nlp, this Neuro linguistic programming thing could be of benefit to me, but also, you know, make other people feel better about listening to my show. So that's how I first got into it.

Interesting. Now I know we were talking offline a bit, and then it's like, you always have these great conversations. Go, cut. We should save it. Because there's always some fascinating hero's journey behind the most successful people. And I know for you, you had a shift in all of this that involved a jungle. So, you know, we got to tell this story.

It was very kind of you to call me a hero. My hero's journey was that. Yeah. A few years ago, I went on holiday to the Philippines. It was a much needed break and I've been looking forward to it for such a long time. We went to this beautiful retreat outside Manila. It was called the Farm. And it was fantastic food and it was great weather. And you had nothing more to worry about in the morning than the sounds of the birds chirruping outside your little kind of log cabin and shall I do yoga or Pilates or just relax in the sun? It was just a paradise setting. But unfortunately for me, it wasn't a paradise setting because I contracted this tropical virus. I woke up one morning, I had. I mean, the main thing that was a real worry was that I had numb patches on my face, but I also had a rash and every bone in my body ached. And I had to fly straight home and see neurologists because, you know, the first thing is when you get a numb patch on your face, they're worried that you might have had a stroke. And I went to the doctor over there and they were like, yeah, we think you've got measles.

Which.

Which wasn't actually true. So I came over here and I ended up having three months off work, off my TV job, and in bed. Oh, my God, it was such a dark time. Yeah, because, you know, the doctors, they said, we know that you've had a tropical virus, but unfortunately, modern medicine hasn't worked out a lot of these tropical virus and hasn't just discovered what they are. So we can tell from your red blood cell count that you've had some kind of virus, but we don't really know how to fix you. So that kind of Kicked off a couple of months of intense soul searching and kind of going back to everything that I thought I knew about NLP and relearning it. Because I think one of the ways of describing NLP is doing what works, finding out what works for me and finding out what works for other people. And funnily enough, when I was interviewing you on my podcast a few minutes ago, you talked about that as well. Your desire to learn from people who've done stuff well that you would like to do well as well. And so I had to start working out what worked for me and other people in a similar situation, finding out what they'd done and modeling their success and applying it to my life.

So how did you get better? Like what did you do to get. If you were in bed with this virus? Like what, how did you get out of it?

Well, for a start, I had to reduce my stimulation levels. I mean, I was massively overstimulated. I think probably anyway, you know, working too hard, playing too hard. But then obviously when you get ill and you're a problem solver and you're someone who's used to kind of high achieving and a bit of a type A personality, what's the first thing that you do? You go to Dr. Google and if you're spending 12 hours a day on Dr. Google, it's just not very good for your well being. And I think my sympathetic nervous system was so pumped up that my parasympathetic nervous system wasn't able to kick in and relax and allow me to heal. But then in terms of nlp, what I did was I started modeling other people in my situation for finding out what they'd done well in terms of getting better. And it turned out that so many of them had great stories to tell. And almost all of them had said, when you've got a kind of a mystery illness and you don't quite know what it is, conventional medicine can't do very much to help you. But functional medicine, I didn't even know what that was at that point. Functional medicine and all these kind of alternative therapies can have a massive impact. And the thing probably that had the biggest impact on me was I spoke to someone who'd suffered from fatigue related issues, which was me. I was lying in bed and I didn't have much going on. And he said, oh, I went to see this guy that does tapping. Because I know that you've had Nick Ortner on your podcast, haven't you? Yes, and I really enjoyed that episode. And one of your sons liked it more than the other one?

Yes. When he was five, my, my younger son became a big tapping fan. But it's something we use in miracle mindset that I just, it's like one of those things that's so underutilized and.

So powerful and for me, you know, it was just, it was just a torrent of emotion that came out, you know, 15 minutes after going see him. I was crying and I felt kind of upset but relieved and I had this intense outflow of emotion because I kind of knew in that moment that it would be okay. So it was very powerful for me, the tapping and I thought it was all a bit woo woo before I went in there as well. So you have on a very basic level this kind of modeling other people who've been successful in the area that I'd wanted to do and you could call that neurohacking as well, that helped me massively in my own journey of recovery.

Yeah, I mean all of this stuff, I call it mindset hacking. It's neurohacking but it, you know, in first blush you'd think it was woo woo but the reality is like you can lower your cortisol 27% with hacking. I don't know anything else you can do that with. It's crazy. And that means that you've just lowered your stress. Now I know that you also use music you, it's one of the things that you use to help people relax and make instant changes. So what about that?

I was doing that a lot when I was in bed, sitting there all day at my mum's house as well. I thought, I thought, I'm 37 years old, I'm at my mum's in my single bed. It's not quite where I envisioned my life going, to be honest. Yeah, the relaxed playlist is based on the theory that we can't necessarily flip from stressed to relaxed straight away. So when I wrote my book Relaxed in a Minute, we did loads of work based around music, you know, because we all know the power of listening to, I don't know, a song that reminds you of your favorite holiday or when you first fell in love, for example. But it's so hard to flip from stressed to relaxed that if I listen to, I don't know, one of my favorite songs, Bill Withers Lovely Day, for example, it doesn't just make me feel relaxed straigh. So the relaxed playlist works on the theory that you put four tunes on a playlist and it only takes a minute to kind of set it up. And it guides you from neutral or stressed through to relaxed. It's an NLP process called chaining anchors. So it means that you take your current emotional state and you slowly and carefully lead it by the hand to a better state. So you'd make a playlist on your phone and you'd pick one song that you feel neutral about, then one song that you find quite relaxing, and one song that you feel very relaxing, and then your all time favorite calming song, whatever that might be. And you might call it something like my relaxed playlist. And the reason that I started using this is I work with a woman who had a phobia of bridges. It's actually quite a common phobia, driving across bridges. And, and it turned out that some of the NLP techniques, whilst very good, weren't powerful enough to instantly flip her from stressed to relaxed. But 15 minutes before she arrived at this bridge, very famous bridge, big bridge in Scotland called the fourth bridge, she'd put on her relax playlist. So at first feel the song that she felt, yeah, it's all right, but you know, it doesn't feel that good. And it would lead her through more and more relaxing songs until she arrived at the bridge and she was listening to her all time most calming song and that would help her go over the bridge.

Now, what about long term stress? Like these are great, I love this. Cause to me this is like the uber state change. But what about people dealing with long term stress? What you got for them?

Well, it's all about how we experience the world. You know, our three main senses, our visual, auditory and kinesthetic sense. Sometimes when we've got phobias or fears or deep traumas that are resonating with us at kind of a conscious and unconscious level, it's because we're associating so much with the senses of what happened at the time. And when you can start to dissociate from that stress and that emotion and that traumatic episode. You know, you and I on my podcast Zestology, we were talking about Tony Robbins, weren't we? And what Tony Robbins does is pretty much pure nlp. By the way, he trained in NLP before he did anything else. And he was talking a lot about disassociation. And something that I like to do is a technique that I invented called the rockstar phobia cure, which is essentially disassociation. It's inspired by the countless rock stars that have thrown TVs out of hotel windows. And if only all those rock stars had Followed my technique and done it in their minds instead of actually throwing the TV out the window. Would have saved them a lot of money. But yeah, you imagine sitting in a hotel room looking at a small screen in the corner of the room. And I'll only go over the technique briefly, but obviously people are welcome to get in touch if they want to kind of hear a little bit more about it. And you watch the. The traumatic episode through in black and white. That's the disassociation bit. You make the TV pretty small and you kind of. It's like one of those 60s telly where the reception isn't very good. And then you pause it after the traumatic episode and you climb into the TV and it's, you know, when you rewind and you're watching television and it's kind of going very quickly, it's a bit like that. You're surrounded in color at this point and it rewinds, takes two or three seconds and takes you back to the beginning again. And whilst watching that negative experience, you then watch it again through in black and white. And if at any point this feels uncomfortable, you can step out of the picture again and return to your position in the kind of corner of the room. But all this is dissociation. Watching in black and white, making the picture not very good. Having a small TV in the corner of the room and then you step into it in color and rewind it and it kind of rewires your brain almost. And then the final step is you throw the TV out the window virtually. Yes. Don't actually go into a hotel room, just to clarify. Throw a tv. Yeah. And don't blame it on me. Yes, but the black and white TV makes it harder to associate with those negative emotions. And in fact, you know, I mean, whilst this is good for kind of deep trauma and deep stress, and I've used this a lot on people with phobias or episodes in their past that has causing them problems. You know, any. Any kind of. Anything that's stressing you out, any episode that has stressed you out and is giving you emotions that you would rather change, you can try this on.

So I love all these techniques and I know you've got loads more of them, so we'll, we'll share in a moment where everyone gig up more. But I want to address sleep because it's such a biggie in my community. I mean, we know if people are not getting enough sleep, they're going to be hungrier and not for salmon, and just sets up a whole host of problems. So what do you have to help people both get to sleep and sleep better?

Yeah, well I mean it's interesting actually because when I did the book Relax in a Minute and I did a chapter on sleep and I thought, you know, as well as the NLP techniques that I know work for sleep because they work for me, I delved quite a lot into sleep research and I found that just a lot of people just drink too much caffeine to get a good night's sleep. I mean just purely and simply drink too much caffeine too late in the day. So this isn't nlp, but if you're listening to this common sense people, if you're listening to this at 5 o' clock in the evening you've got a large cup of coffee. Might be time to make that a decaf. Do you drink on a day to day.

You know you're not supposed to ask those questions. Well, no. So I, but I don't do coffee. I do coffee in the morning. I have my bulletproof coffee in the morning and then I switch over. If I'm going to go to the gym I like to stop off and get a little espresso on the way but that's usually sometime between 11 and 12 and then I do ice cream tea so. And I don't drink caffeine in the afternoon and evening, I just stop. So I do sparkling water and cavitas and things like that. And you know part of what you can find out genetically is what kind of caffeine metabolizer you are and if you're one of the slower. Yeah, so slow.

Caffeine 23andMe genetic testing.

Yeah, well I use pathway genomics, they have a test called pathway fit but it tells you that. And once you know that I know like there are certain people are fast caffeine metabolizers. They might be all have the coffee at 5 I used to think oh they just have burned out adrenals. No, it's, it's how fast they metabolize their caffeine. I'm not a fast caffeine metabolizer so if I'm going to have caffeine in the afternoon I'm done. I'll be up all night so I won't do it.

Yeah, I, my caffeine metabolism seemed to be fine. Some people have said to Me with the 23Me genetic testing or any kind of genetic testing. Oh but I wouldn't want to know because that would be so depressing, wouldn't it? But actually I'VE made a very small supplemental change to my regime from 23andMe, and it's had a huge impact on my health. So I would advise everyone to just look a little bit more into their genes and their DNA and see what.

Yeah, I mean, and it's so funny because you get very actionable information that helps you feel much better. It's the little hinges swinging the big doors. But you don't actually have to do anything with the information either. I love people go, I don't want to know. I'm like, well, if you knew something that would change your quality of sleep, which then would change the quality of your life and you make a little tiny hack, wouldn't you want to change it?

Yeah, okay.

But that was the caffeine thing. And what do you have more in your, you know, in your realm to use?

Well, when we eventually turn out the light, it's often the first time all day that we've had to just relax and think. So a lot of us can't get to sleep because our minds are racing. One of the secrets of getting to sleep in those circumstances, I think, is to prepare for sleep in the right way. So one of the NLP techniques you can do is properly occupying your brain. Because if you're on the go all day, you might find when you turn out the lights the first time, that you're worrying about everything from the big things in your life to when to do the washing up tomorrow morning. So what you do is you occupy the senses and you think about. And actually you can do this in the day to kind of chill out as well. So you think about three things that you can see. So if you're listening to this now, don't do this if you're driving, but otherwise it's fine. Think about three things that you can see. And if you're trying to get to sleep, shut your eyes and think about three things that you could see if your eyes were open. And then notice three things that you can hear. And again, go slowly and notice three different things. So it might be the tone of my voice, or it might be the hum from next door's air conditioning. And then notice three things that you can feel or touch. You know, for example, it might be the temperature of the air or the duvet on your back or the feeling of the sheeting against your skin. And you keep rotating, noticing three things that you can see, three things that you can hear, and three things that you can touch or feel. And you continue the process with your eyes shut. Where People often go wrong with this technique, is that they don't do it for the full minute. Their mind starts wandering much sooner, sometimes even after a few seconds. But if you do this for a full minute, your mind will be in a different place, ready for sleep. And actually, this is a technique that I use to great success, not only for going to sleep, but to relax me before big TV presentations that I'm doing. In fact, for the job that I've got now, I turned up on this. I wanted the job so badly. It's the biggest sports station in the country. I turned up. There were 60 other people all auditioning for the same role that day. And the minute before I went on screen for my screen test, I focused on three things that I could see, three things that I could hear, and three things that I could feel. And I keep going. And rather than thinking about all the things that I could be saying or how I should be standing or whether my hair was in the right position, I focused on these three things. And that just took me into a slightly more relaxed state where I was able to perform my best because it occupied my mind.

I love it.

And I've never heard that before.

Oh, good. I'm glad. It's a great technique. It's known. If anyone wants to Google it and find out a little bit more about it, I call it the technique for getting more Z's in my book. But it's based on the Betty Erickson technique. And there's quite a nice story of Betty Erickson, if you want to Google that.

Love it. I love all these little simple. Again, I focus on the little hinges that swing the big doors, and these are, like, little simple things that make a massive shift. So cool.

Good.

All right, I'm gonna throw a curveball at you, Tony. Yeah, so it's not a curveball, though. But looking at you, what is the one thing that you do every day that you feel makes the biggest difference in your life?

Well, you and I on my podcast have already talked about meditation, and I went on Dave Asprey's 40 Years of Zen program in January, so about four months ago. And I had a pretty solid meditation practice before that. But then I went to this mysterious retreat in the mountains outside Seattle and spent a week, basically, in a dark room with electrodes attached to my head and did plenty of meditating.

And no coffee.

No coffee.

No coffee.

So I was having a kind of. I was having a fruit tea with butter and brain octane. It was actually really nice. It was tasty.

Yeah. I Like my coffee better.

I was pleased with coffee after that.

Yes. That was the first thing I did anyway.

Yeah, I actually made the mistake of after that. I flew to Tokyo and I met four friends and it was great. But it was such an intense holiday after this very relaxing Zen week in the middle of nowhere. Hanging out in Tokyo, which is pretty. You assault on the sense of stimulation. It was quite overwhelming for a couple of days. But what was I saying? Oh, yeah. So the meditation. Since I've come back, I've noticed at a direct level, it's making a big difference. I'm calmer, I'm more grounded, I get stressed less easily. But an indirect level, I feel like it's almost. I've almost opened up the channels to the universe to receive all the gifts that the universe might bring me. And I know that might sound a little bit airy fairy and a little bit woo woo, but there are things that are happening, there are opportunities that are coming into my life that I think are happening because my brain and my emotions are in the right place to receive them.

And that's not woo woo at all, by the way. Like after I went through 40 years in, that's when I met my fiance.

No.

Totally shifted everything. Totally shifted everything. So, you know, I mean, it is one of those clear things like if you don't believe it's possible, if you are not open to possibility, you won't. You don't see it, you won't, you know, don't believe it's possible. Won't happen. So it doesn't sound at all.

Yeah. I'm so pleased that you think that. Well, I kind of knew that you would think that anyway from listening to your podcast. One of the things that happened with me was in February, I went and presented a pool tournament. You know, a pool like Q Sports. And I did an interview with this Japanese pool player that went massively viral. I mean, it's probably been seen 75 million times worldwide. It was such a lot of fun. And I know that I did my best. I didn't actually have to do that much because this guy was so crazy and unusual. He started singing in the middle of the interview. It's great fun. If you Google crazy pool interview, you'll find this interview.

Can we craft you now what he's called now?

He was awesome, you know, I mean, I felt like I was at my best to allow him to shine. And I felt like the gift of the universe were coming to me because I was in the right place to make that happen.

Of Course I'm like pulling up crazy pool interview right now.

I can't say, okay, called Naoki Oi. But if you. Yeah. Or Sky Sports pool. If you google that, you'll find it. I mean it was so funny. And all my friends saw it, my friends in California and New Zealand. 15 million people watched it in China in one day alone. And this guy wasn't even from China, he was from Japan. So yeah, it was just, it was just a crazy opportunity. It was great fun.

That is great. All right, now let's go back over. So for people who want to get more neuro hacks, learn more about you, what's the best place for people to go?

You can check out my website which is tonywriton.com or you might want to.

How do you spell that? Tony? It's not a typical name.

It's a T O N Y W R I g h t o-n.com. and you can also listen to my website, which JJ has been on. We've just recorded an interview for that and my podcast which is Zestology. So if you want to listen to.

My podcast, I love that name. And you've got a book, you've got a couple.

Yeah.

You've got a couple books. Yes.

Yep. Three books published in 12 languages with virgin books. So confidence in a minute, relax in a minute and persuade in a minute.

Ah, I see a theme. But those techniques are fantastic. And again, it fits my whole philosophy. So I'm listening to this going, this is just fantastic. So.

Oh good. I'm glad. I felt the same when listening to you. And I know when you, when you were coming on my podcast, I was, I was literally making notes for things to do after we've chatted to follow up on.

And me too, including looking at the crazy pool interview. But also I love the 333. I mean these are just awesome, usable techniques. So thank you so much for joining me. I so appreciate it.

Thank you jj. It's great to be on.

All right now after the break, I'm going to be answering listeners questions. So stay with me.

It's scary but true. Sugar is hiding everywhere in diet foods, packaged foods, dressings, and even sugar substitutes. It's not about cutting out all sugar. It's knowing which sugars to choose and which to lose. What if you could drop seven hidden sugars, lose up to ten pounds in just two weeks? JJ Virgin will show you how with a simple four step plan to cut cravings and rev up your metabolism to lose fat fast forever. Visit jjvirgin.com books and order the Sugar Impact Diet. You can shed up to ten pounds in two weeks. Visit jjvirgin.com books.

Welcome back.

This is the time where I answer a listener's question.

And today's question comes from Marcy in Tulsa. And she says, jj.

I get on your program and then I get off your program.

Then I get back on your program, and then I get off your program. What can I do to stop falling off? All right, I thought this would be a great question to include during this podcast because this isn't a challenge with a program. It's a challenge with the purpose behind the program. One of the first things that I do, whether you're following the Virgin Diet or the Sugar Impact Diet or any program that you're getting on, there's the piece before the program that's going to make the difference between you being successful or not. And that piece is your purpose. That piece is your belief. That piece is your why. So the big thing you need to do in order to really be successful in the program, get super clear on why the heck you're doing this in the first place. Okay, so you're here now, Marci, and where do you want to be? Get real clear on where that place is. Feel it, think it, own it. What's your life like there? Because the difference between where you are now and where you want to be, like, we've got the programs. My gosh, you know, if you're struggling with blood sugar instability, sugar cravings, diabetes, insulin resistance, heart disease, go on the Sugar Impact Diet. If you've got leaky gut, GI issues, autoimmune disease, joint pain, headaches, fatigue, go on the Virgin Diet. If you're not sure, just start with one, Pick one. Doesn't matter. But what does matter is that you've got the purpose behind it. Why do I want to do this? What's going to change for me when I change my life? Are my relationships going to improve? Am I going to be able to go for things that I didn't feel like I normally could go for? Is my confidence going to get better? Write that all down, really see yourself there, and then I'd say even take it a step further. And this is where I love the program. Mind Movies is a great asset. We'll make sure to include this in the show notes where you can actually create the place where you are already so you can see it, and then just keep that front and center. Every morning, pull out your intentioning journal, write down your big why, your purpose and See yourself there already. Talk about your life, where it is as you're going through this. Then when the going gets rough and you need to show up with courage, you've got your purpose to push you through. And every single time you do, you build resilience. That's that mindset, cpr. Courage, purpose, resilience.

Okay.

Every single time you do, it's going to get easier and easier. Easier. Okay, so there. Step up first with your big purpose. Now, if you'd like to submit a question, head over to my Facebook page at JJ Virgin Official. That is where I do my Facebook lives. I jump in, I grab questions. I grab questions from my wall. You can also messenger us. So love those questions. Keep them coming. And the other thing that I'd love.

To have you keep coming.

This is the gratitude portion of the show. One of the things that I appreciate so much. In fact, our whole team does. We all read the reviews on itunes and I wanted to read this five star review from the Cat with Claws from the usa. And she says, best podcast for weight loss inspiration. Okay, I have to admit I'm a fan. But honestly, this is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard for getting motivated and staying there. Tons of great info. Yes. Stuff you probably don't know and tools to be. Well subscribe. It will change your life. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. The Cat with Claws. Super Appreciate that. And again, our whole team reads these and I, I really, really appreciate them. And I appreciate you. Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope that this has served you well.

The best way that it can serve.

You is for you to get into action. So think about the couple things that we talked about on the show today and put one into movement. And if it scares you a little bit to do it, even better, push outside of your comfort zone. All right, thank you. I will see you next time. How does it feel?

Hello listeners. This is Anne Bogle, author, blogger, and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week, I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately. And I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and visit our website what Should I read next podcast.com to find out more.