Optimal Men’s Health with Dr. Myles Spar

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You know you hear about toxic masculinity, right? But that doesn't mean just toxic toward women. It's toxic to ourselves. Countries where there's the greatest gender disparity and power, where guys feel the need to be so macho and put down women. They have the lowest life expectancy.

Here's jj, Virgin Triple board certified nutrition and fitness expert and four time New York Times best selling author. It's time to reignite wellness.

So this may be biased because I'm a gal, this is JJ by the way. But I've always felt like women are the CEOs, the healthcare CEOs of their family. And I've noticed that we have about 25% of our audience are men, but a lot of times it's the woman.

Bringing the guy on in.

So I was really fascinated when I met Dr. Myles Spahr this year. He was attending Mindshare and he told me that he had written a book coming out called Optimal Men's Health, your Guide to Being Healthy in Order to Win. But in a lot of it's like really talking the right language that's gonna get a man interested in health. Like walking him through the process. Because you know, we are we women and men are different and different things are going to be motivating to us. So this is a really cool podcast interview because we talk about that along with some of the other things that.

You if you know you as a.

Man or if you're a woman and you want to turn your significant other onto this could be using to get healthy. Let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Spahr. He's a board certified internist and integrative men's health expert. He's on faculty at the UCLA School of Medicine, Go Bruins, my alma mater and University of Arizona.

He's in LA.

He's the founder and CEO of Tac 180, an optimal health program for men, and also he is the new Chief Medical Officer of Vault Health, which is a integrative health company focusing on men and focusing on men's performance. He also served as a consultant to the NBA working with players on optimal health issues and is the recipient of the Bravewell Award for Leadership in Integrative Medicine. He edited a textbook for practitioners called Integrative Men's Health and as a consumer book again coming out that you'll want to grab and gift if you're a woman listening to this for your guy. And if you are a guy, you'll.

Want to get this and you're also going to want to get the downloads.

I talk about in this show at jjvirgin.com forward/dr. Spar D R S P A R and before we dive in, I want to shout out to Susan Neal Yoga who left this review. Very knowledgeable host. I love this podcast. JJ has so much information and helps us to apply simple tips to improve health and weight. The host is so much knowledge to share with our listeners.

Thank you so much.

I love doing these shout outs. I'd love to shout you out so leave a review rate and review. It helps a ton and be sure to put your name in there so I can do a shout out straight to you. It's super cool. Now I'll be back in a minute. I want to share this with you and then I'll be right back with Dr. Miles Spah and you are going to love this podcast. We have a ton of fun and there's great info. See you soon.

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Doctor Myles Sparr, welcome to the show. Let's talk about some dude stuff.

Great, thank you. So excited to be here. And yes, it's about time.

I know it is about time. We never talk about men's health on this show. And, you know, I just discovered that, like, I don't know, 25% or more of my audience are men. And then the other one are women who care about their men.

Right. They all have men in their lives. And, you know, I think in general a lot of my whole mission and the whole reason I do what I do is because I grown so frustrated by those of us in the integrative medicine, functional medicine in the caretaking field have really failed at talking to men and engaging men. We talk about these ideas that women really resonate with about wellness and prevention and doing these amazing plans full of different aspects of things they can do to improve their lives. And guys don't really work that way. You know, guys are much more.

Well, explain it. How do they work? Like, I don't understand that.

Well, first of all, I'm generalizing, right? So just apologies out there. Yes. You know, and I'm. I. I mean, obviously there are who think more stereotypically male, like, and there are men who think more stereotypically female, like, and I don't want to discount that. But typically, you know, guys, you know, you hear about toxic masculinity, right? But that doesn't mean just toxic toward women. It's toxic to ourselves. In fact, there was a really interesting report the World Health Organization put out last year. It said in the countries where there's the greatest gender disparity and power, where guys feel the need to be so macho and put down women, they have the lowest life expectancy.

Wow.

I was just.

So I was just in Iceland.

Yeah.

Have you been to Iceland?

I changed planes in Reykjavik.

Okay.

Next time you're changing planes in Reykjavik, turns out you can stay for a couple days and they don't charge anything. So I stayed in Reykjavik. I actually went to a place called the Retreat Hotel. And I got there and I canceled the rest of my stuff I was supposed to do and just stayed there because it was. I was like fell in love with this place. Everyone was so happy and healthy. And I started googling. It turns out Iceland's number four in the world in happiness, number two in health. They have the lowest gender disparity of the entire world.

Right. And they're the healthiest as a result.

There you go.

I think. Yeah. I mean, it all has to do with the fact that when guys feel the need to be the stereotypical macho guy, it's actually not just bad for women, it's bad for men, it's bad for our health. And I think part of that is this idea of guys in terms of medicine want to know what do they need to do to achieve a goal to perform better? What matters to them? This abstract idea of don't eat hot dogs because maybe you'll have a heart attack in 10 years doesn't fly. No guy's going to avoid a heart attack. But if you say, you know what, it's going to affect the blood flow in your arteries and we all know where blood flow is really important to you. And so if you have blockage anywhere, you're going to notice it first there and you're going to have erection problems. You don't need the hot dog. And guess what? Guys are not going to eat the hot dog.

Okay. Oh, you're going to love this so much. So back when I saw people one on one as a nutritionist, I had about 60% of my clients were like high performing men. And it was either one guy would tell the next guy or the wives got involved and told, you know, got their husbands on board. And I loved having them as clients because all I did is I would go, all right, like, they'd come in and typical, like, and here we go with typical again. So forgive us, but typical male CEO, little belly bulge and, you know, getting a little bit out of shape, golfing as is like workout, doing cocktails. And, you know, I basically pointed out that that belly was going to impact his erections and I could. And that was how I got them in, you know.

Exactly. You need a hug. You need a hug. And sexual is always a good way to go because that's going to get a lot of guys. But these days you're hearing more and more about just performance. Guys want to perform better. And it could be sexually, but it also could be physically or cognitively. And we see there, you know, we see more and more guys, especially like the leading edge of millennials. Guys in their 30s are actually more concerned about losing their mental edge and their cognitive sharpness than they are about getting cancer. It's that much of this issue. And, you know, that's why you're hearing about microdosing of LSD and hallucinogens and doing nootropics and taking modafinil, like looking for these kind of hacking things. And I'm not really into hacking. I'm into actually making fundamental change that makes a difference. But to get guys do that, you still have to make it as simple as hacking sounds like, yeah, well, and.

Sexy hacking sounds biohacking. So it sounds so cool. You know, it's like doing the basics well does not sound so cool.

Right. But that's ultimately what you're trying to do. Yes. So that's my hope. I mean, I have a, a book coming out called Optimal Men's Health.

No, we are going to link to it and it's okay.

So.

But let's back up before we even get into that because we like dove in, we dove right into the deep end. We're going to go, we're going to tread back to the shallow end here and I'm going to link to your book. I'm super excited. I'm so excited that I could have someone come in and talk about men's health. I'm like, this is awesome. But before we get there, like, okay, you're med school and how did you decide? And just like you said, like, I'm thinking of all the functional medicine doctors I know and most of them are either doing like anti aging. If they are doing men, it's anti aging.

Right.

You know, that's actually it. Everything else is really women's hormones and stuff. So how did you get into this whole field? How'd this become your thing?

Well, I started out, I did regular medical school. I went to University of Michigan and was very well trained to treat acute disease, you know, and that was about it. And I did residency and felt fully in equipped to treat about half of the issues that were coming before me. So I ended up doing more training and getting what's called a general health services research fellowship. Doing research into how do you improve care, how do I really address the bigger issues patients have that still was kind of just more researchy and didn't really give me the skills I wanted. So I decided, you know, if all I know how to do is really treat acute disease, I'm going to go where it's most needed and work with Doctors Without Borders. Because I had this sense of kind of improving the health care system from doing that fellowship. I had this ability to treat acute disease. So I was like, I can't really feel satisfied in the American Health Commission. So I'm going to go do that. And when I was abroad, I worked mostly with tuberculosis and with HIV patients in all different parts of the world with Doctors Without Borders. And I found that there was this ability to be resilient and to maintain health using tools we didn't have in Western medicine and that I hadn't learned in medical school. So I really came back to the country dedicated to learning. What else can I learn that they're doing in other places when they don't even have pharmaceuticals that are keeping them not as sick as they would be otherwise? And that included things like having support from people around them and eating well, all the integrated medicine stuff. So anyway, long story short, that's what led me to do my integrative medicine training. But then I did the fellowship, University of Arizona, which I love, and I'm on faculty there, and it's a great fellowship. But I still felt like everything I was learning was something that was applicable only to people who have this very forward thinking sense and are already bought into the idea of integrative medicine. And that's largely women. And so when I went back and took it to where I was working, which is at a free clinic doing integrative medicine, I found everybody coming to me were women. And when I started looking more into it, I found the difference in life expectancy between men and women is largely due to preventable issues or largely due to the chronic disease illnesses that men are winning at. And so it just kind of led me down this path of finding out that we were not getting men to be engaged at all. And any of the advances we're making and kind of integrative in a more holistic approach. And so that's really where it started. So about five or six years ago, Andy Weil had this series. He's a big guru in integrative medicine. He's a colleague of mine and he had this whole series and he had integrated women's health, integrated pediatrics, integrative mental health, integrative gastrointestinal, integrated intestinal health. And nothing I'm into health. And so I just literally went up to him at lunch one day and I was like, you know, Andy, there's a big gap here and we need to get it filled. Somebody needs to write this book. He said, well, why don't you do it? So, cautionary tale, don't bring up if you're not ready. So that was like 10 years ago. And so it led me to editing the first textbook on integrative men's health. And really finding out how much the conversation needs to change if you really want to get people who think like guys to react and respond.

So. But it sounds like to me that it's not that we don't know what to do with men, it's that they didn't know how to talk to men to get them to do what they needed to do.

Exactly.

When you look at integrative and functional medicine versus traditional medicine, one of the biggest shifts is that the patient has to be very involved in their care. They're going to have to do things like change their diet, change their sleeps, change their stress versus just take a medication. And so if you don't know how to speak to the. We know how to do that for men and women. I mean, obviously they're different, but we have studies for men. Right. It's just that we weren't talking to them correctly or using the type of marketing or outreach that would draw them in. Is that what's going on?

Well, I think what we weren't focusing on getting results. I think that's the results they cared.

About because we were talking about preventing, like, you know, heart disease in 30 years. And they're like, I just want to make sure I walk onto the court tomorrow and kill it.

Right, Exactly. And they. Or, you know, we just. It needs to start with, what are your goals? And let's look at one thing that you can do next. What's the next thing you can do? And then measure it. Guys really like measuring. They like markers of success or not or lack of success. And they like to compete and show that they're either beating themselves from a prior point in time or beating somebody else. I love Strava, and I have no ownership interest in Strava. I don't know if. Are you familiar with Strava? No, the app. So it's like a social competition app. It's like social media, but for runners and cyclists, where you get on to your app while you're doing a run or you're doing a cycle, and you can compete against yourself in a prior period of time doing the same run or cycle, or against other people in real time doing that. And so it's this competition community, and I think it's all those kind of tools. So it's both in regard to your question. It's the marketing, in a way. It's getting men to say, hey, these are the type of practitioners that are really speaking to me. But it's also in what we offer them. It's saying, okay, we're Going to give you this tip on diet or exercise or stress or sleep. And we're going to measure the impact it's having on the outcome of interest to you. So is it being better at basketball? Is it being more sharp at work? Then let's just have you rate it 1 to 10 and then tell me how you're doing with it. So I think it's really holding ourselves and that guy accountable to really making a difference in their life. And obviously that resonates with women too. So this isn't just for men, but it's much more specific and goal oriented as opposed to abstract, you know.

Well, and even the competition, you know, women are more tribal and collaborative. Men are, and it's just, it's in our DNA. So it's really just working with, with a man more on what he's going to understand, how he's going to respond. And you know, it's, it's. I just watch just how my husband and I deal with things. Like he's going to, he wants an immediate goal that he can go and get done, you know.

Right.

You know, it's just working, working that way with them. So you really focus on performance, which is the perfect word for them because again, it's perform. Bedroom, boardroom, you know, ballpark, wherever it is. And what's your process? Like, how, what, what do you do?

Well, so basically right now I am working for a company that's really focusing on performance for men. It's called Vault Health. I'm the chief medical officer. So we start with just what I said, asking guys, what's important to you? What is your goal? Say maybe you have 10 goals. Let's just focus on one or two. We're going to track that. You're going to get a coach or a trainer that works with you on that. And we're going to measure biomarkers that are related to that goal. So oftentimes it's going to include hormones because that affects all aspects of performance, cognitively, physically, sexually. It's going to include biomarkers about their cortisol and their stress, or about their heart disease risk, or about how fit they are. It could be body composition, but the measures we test are going to be specific to what your goals are. And then we're going to give you a personalized recommendation for supplements, medications, hormones, a diet plan and exercise plan. But one or two things at a time that are tactical. And we're going to measure how are we doing relative to that goal and using a coach or trainer to keep you on track and to hold you accountable. So we basically have, you know, programs around, especially performance sexually, performance physically and performance cognitively.

Perfect. Those are the big. The big three. And we were talking offline and you talked about these impact factors for performing better.

Right. So I have, you know, on my website, I have a quiz that people can take.

We will definitely guide them to the quiz. So just as you're listening, we are going to put@jjvirgin.com Dr. Dr. Spar. Dr. Spar. And I'm going to put the link to your new book. And then I'm going to. In the new book, by the way, optimum Men's Health, your guide to being healthy in order to win. Yes. And then the link to the quiz. We also have a couple other cool things I know that you're going to be talking about, but let's dive in first. So they take a quiz.

They take this quiz, and it basically tells them of five general impact factors. I call them. What's the one you need to work on most? Because again, I like the idea of working on one thing at a time, not having this whole elaborate plan.

I love that. You have no idea how much we resonate. I am. First of all, I'm obsessed with Barry Keller, who wrote the one thing. Have you read that book?

Right. Yes. Yes.

And I think back to when I first started, you know, which is when we're all most dangerous. Like, we know just enough to really, like, mess things up. And someone would come to me, and I'm like, all right, we're fixing your diet. We got to get you exercising. We'll start monitoring your steps for, of course you need to sleep. We should get something for stress. Maybe you should do some meditation. Then we got to take some supplements. Why don't you do all these labs? And they're like, wow, you know, they do nothing. It's like, ridiculous. So it's like, you know those. Those 1% shifts that you do, all of a sudden, over a year, you're like an entirely different person. You actually did them. So I am, like, so on board with that. So these five impact factors, what are the five?

So one of them is nutrition and takes you through. If you take that, for example, the quiz, you find out that's really where your weakest point is, takes you through general things about nutrition. It's not, you know, I'm not the nutritionist. You're. It's not that specific, but it's more general. Intermittent fasting. How could you enter? How could you implement that? And how that's not a license to eat whatever you want in an eight hour window.

It's not. That's what they started teaching it with. I actually did a TV show, I did the Today show with David Chinchenko when he just came out with the eight hour diet and I just come out with the sugar impact diet. And, and so here I am like, you know, and I thought, here you're the dude that was like, eat this, don't eat that. Now you're like, just eat it during this eight hours. And I was like, this is so off brand, dude.

No, no. Yes. So, yeah, so. So that's your weak link. Then it goes into that. If exercise is kind of where you're really deficient, gives you some tips on high intensity interval training and some ways, you know, with exercise, I always talk about how there are four things. It's not just the cardio. It's also resistance and core work and flexibility and how you can do different types of things like yoga, Pilates, and incorporate more than one of those. And then a big one is the sleep toolkit, which I really, you know, I used to work with the NBA. So I worked with NBA players all around the country on integrative men's health. And they had asked to be talked to about more than just the basics of medicine. They wanted to know about sleep and stress and nutrition, and sleep was one of the biggest performance issues they had. So I took some of what I learned from them and put that in that sleep toolkit about how important it is and how many. Again, especially guys, but women too. I think it's like 60% get less than seven hours a night on average. Yeah, it's. It's an epidemic.

I'm a sleepwise person. Wow.

Seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. And whereas the actual data is that about 10% of people actually are fine getting that little bit of sleep, but 90% of us need more than that.

So I just had a male CEO that I was. We all went out to the hockey game the other night and he was arguing with me that he was definitely a short sleeper. I'm like, yeah, you know, everyone thinks.

They are maybe, but everything's there. Exactly. And it builds up.

Yeah.

And then. And then there's one on connection and how, you know, with guys we are really not great at maintaining our social connections, and yet not having someone that you can share some of your kind of concerned vulnerability with is actually a risk factor for early death as much as smoking. So it just talks about kind of creative ways of making sure there's somebody in your life and how to find, you know, kind of community. And then one is about purpose. Because like I said, you start with your goals. That's where it really all hinges on. So how do you kind of, you know, work through, maybe create like a little journal or do some kind of process to figure out what, why do you get up in the morning, you know what, what really matters to you? What difference does it make if you die or not? And if, if you aren't concerned about that, then you're not going to make a lifestyle change. But if you realize, oh, I really care about making sure I'm performing for my kids or for my ability to advance my career or for me to beat my friend in basketball, then you have a reason to then make some of these other changes. So it goes into those kind of five aspects of optimal living.

Basically what I love the most about there's so many good things here. And what I really love is that you're looking at connection and purpose. And what I'm really hoping we're going to start moving to in the next couple years is realizing that you know, that without those you could be eating correctly and exercise correctly, even sleeping correctly and you could be unhealthy.

Yes.

You know, like that latest stuff. Looking at social isolation, I just read some stats that 50% of Americans are lonely. Yes, I know it is heartbreaking because someone I'm working on a TEDx talk and someone sent me this note about this community and I can't remember the name of it now but it had the lowest by 50% lower heart disease risk for men. Do you know which one I'm talking about? Where they smoke cigars, they drink copious amounts of wine, they don't eat really great. But they had, but they all lived in this very, they were immigrants, they all lived in this very small, tight knit community where everyone had like the same style houses. There were no have and have nots. They all were really tight community. And now it started to shift. Now all of a sudden developers came in and all of a sudden there's the haves and the bigger cars and all of a sudden all the stress came in and it's all blown up. But for like 50 years in there it was like this, you know, half the heart disease risk of anything else and it was that tight knit community connection. People all had something they had to do, you know, that, that purpose. I was reading the same thing about Iceland. Everybody had their thing, they did, you know, their different, like their purpose, their job you know, you hear about men retiring and dying because they don't have a thing anymore.

Exactly. Yeah. No, I haven't heard of that study. But the Blue zones, you know, was really where it. It became widely known. And, you know, as I'm sure you know, that was Dan Bueter from National Geographic, you know, researching where do people live longer and healthier than anywhere else on the planet? And some of the nine aspects that he attributes that are common to these Blue zones relate to connection and purpose and community. And so, yeah, I agree. Those are hugely important.

And, you know, I know just with my husband.

Excuse me.

I have.

That's okay. I have a like, incredible group of people I've cultivated over the years. And he really kind of had a couple friends from high school who really hadn't grown at all and done anything with like he has in the last couple years. I also forced him to sleep. He was not sleeping well, doing a little yoga. But he is so great. His connections are just amazing now. And that has shifted. You know, he's doubled what he's done in business. He's healthier than he's ever been in his life. You know, so you look at it and then you wonder, okay, well, which one was it? Was it the group of people that he's around that's lifting him up, or is it now he's sleeping? All of them work together. But I'm just thrilled that you have those two components in there, because they're probably the single most important ones and they're never talked about.

Right, exactly. Well, and with guys, again, it's a little bit different to generalize. It doesn't have to be face to face. Confronting a guy. Tell me about what's on your mind. Guys, you know, are much more about shoulder to shoulder, as opposed to face to face is one way it's put when it comes to men's health. And as long as there's some opening. That's why I love that we work with that we use a coach and we actually are maybe even going to call it a trainer instead, because that might be more something guys, really to who can just be there to say, you know, a very anonymous, in a way, by texting. It doesn't even have to be doing a video conference. Just, hey, what's going on? So you haven't exercised, I see, from your, you know, tracker at all. Even though that was the one thing we're going to work on. What's getting in your way and helping, you know, get the guys to open up a little Bit about what's going on in their life in a way that isn't quite as face to face. Let's. Let's process this.

Which just does not work. I have, I'm a boy mom, So I have two. I have a 22 year old and.

A 23 year old.

And I remember like trying to get them to talk especially, you know, I. One nearly died and the other one was there when this all happened. So he, I was like trying to get him to talk about this and it's like, that ain't happening. I had to go do things with them and sneak it on in there. And it's like we're doing something. If we're cooking together, we're working out. Like, then he's like, blah, blah, blah.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

But you never sit down and go, hey, what do you, how do you feel about that? Like, they don't even understand. I learned to say, never ask how you feel. Ask what you think about that. But like sitting here and asking what you feel about, he's like looking at me like, are you speaking the same language as me? And I go, I guess.

Exactly. No, exactly. It's not easy. No, it's not easy. One. Yeah, I mean one, one roundabout way, just like you said. What do you think about that? Or what's on your mind? Is a lot of times, you know, sometimes a good opening with guys, but.

Man Speak, man speak by Dr. Miles Spahr. It's so good. And you know what's great about this book too, in this podcast is I'm going to encourage, if you are a woman, female listener to share this with your significant other. But also this book, like this is going to be a great book book for women to give the men. Because often we women are the healthcare CEOs of our family. I will tell you that I still am for both my husband and my ex husband who I'm like, you know, making sure he's going to get his physicals and he's going to his physicals and I'm overseeing all of that and their supplements and their whole bit. Right. And my kids, you know, because they just, it just isn't. They don't think about it as much. So this is going to be a great resource for both. Both of them.

Exactly. Yeah. No, it is. We're, we're definitely hoping that women gravitate to it because it's a very easy how to really get men to engage in their health. And it can be for men or for women. And it's a very Practical, what to ask at doctor appointments, what kind of resources can you use? And everything from heart disease to prevention to sexual issues to physical, you know, fatigue and other body composition issues. All of that. But I agree with you. I mean, you know, a lot of the audience is women because like you said, even if it's not your partner or your children, if it's your parents or your brother or, you know, your friend, it's, you know, the statistics show that men have less than half of likelihood of having an identified primary care provider as women.

Wow.

And so we. Yeah, no, I mean, men just don't go, you know, and that's. That's what we're trying to build here at Vault Health. We're trying to be really, you know, those kind of like gynecologists for men. Kind of like women have their lady doctors.

Yeah, that's what you.

Like, we have our lady docs. Like, that's such. Yeah, yeah. Like, I moved to Tampa and the first thing I did was, like, get all that dialed in and Tim's like.

What are you doing?

You know.

Yes, exactly. Why are you doing that now? Let's just wait, and if something breaks, then we'll figure it out.

And if it's really, really broken, like if the engine's on the ground up till then, I'm like, that's a duct tape.

It's fine.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God, it's so tr.

Oh, but we love you guys so much. So it's all good. So I'm going to lead everyone to this quiz. You go be able to go to jjvirgin.com doctorspar D R S P A R. That's a great name, too, for a performance stock, by the way. Like, what a great name. And so good.

So thank you.

Yeah, like, couldn't have planned this better. Anyway, you'll get the five impact factors. You get the quiz, we'll link you to the book. All sorts of cool stuff. And thank you so much for being with me. This is so. It's so fantastic. I'm so excited that you're putting this out there and getting this work out there. Gosh, do we need it?

Oh, well, thank you, jj. I love the work you do and I so appreciate you having me on. It's been great.

Ah, my pleasure. Okay, now after the break, I'm going to give you some action steps, so stay with me. Saving on your education should be a right, not a competition. At University of Phoenix, you'll get the best scholarship or savings you qualify for. Simple as that. Explore Scholarship options at University of Phoenix. All right, welcome back.

I want to jump in with a couple key highlights.

There's so much goodness in this interview.

But I wanted to grab a couple things I just love. First of all, I loved his 5 impact. What did he call them? He called him his impact factors.

Loved those. The fact that, you know, nutrition, exercise, sleep.

Okay, yes, yes, please. But then connection and purpose. So good.

And I've been kind of obsessed reading.

About those as the missing ingredients for health. But there's a couple things that, whether you're a man or a woman, are so key critical for success in any kind of health program and actually in life, number one is measuring. And what you measure and monitor, you can improve. So you gotta measure things. I get a lot of pushback about getting on a scale, but, you know, I think we need to take the judgment off the scale and look at just the measurement piece of it. Because one of the things we do know is that people who weigh in every day tend to keep the weight off. All right, next one.

One thing at a time.

You're gonna see some stuff we're launching this coming year all around doing one thing at a time. And so I am big shout out for that. And then having a couch and having a coach and staying accountable. And again, this is something we've built into our membership with our coaches who have different focuses. We have a testing coach, mindset coach, nutrition coach, exercise coaches, so coaches in there and also a group that helps hold you accountable. So key, important, those are such key things that are elements for success. And success leaves clues, as we know, in any health program.

Now I have an ask and I.

Would love to shout you out like.

I do everybody at the beginning of the show.

I do the shout outs for reviews. I'd love to shout you out. So if you haven't rated, reviewed this.

Show, because you can rate and review.

Every single show, by the way. So if you've done it once, come back, rate and review and leave your name so I can shout you out. I appreciate it so, so much. And I will see you next time. And oh, one more thing. JJ vi.com Dr. S. P, Dr. Spar. Grab the show notes. They are awesome. See you next week. Ciao. Foreign.

Hello listeners. This is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week, I tag all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next reading. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And, of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast, and visit our website what Should I read next podcast.com to find out more.