Preventing Heart Disease With Dr. Stephen Hussey

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Hey, this is JJ Virgin. Welcome and thanks so much for joining me. This is Ask the Health Expert here. I put the power of health in your hands and give you access to the top people in health and wellness. In each episode, I share safe ways to get healthy, lose weight, heal your gut, detox and lots more. So if you want to get healthy and get off the dieting for life merry go round, I'll give you strategies that will help you look and feel better fast. Hey, J.J. here. And today we are going to be diving into the heart. We have got some amazing insights for you into the evolutionary origins of heart disease and more importantly, why that matters to you and for women. 50% of women die of heart disease. So what I have to say on that is not on my watch and not with my guest today. And my guest today is Dr. Stephen Hussey who is a chiropractor and a functional medicine practitioner. He attained both his doctorate of chiropractic and his master's in human nutrition and functional medicine from the University of Western States in Portland, Oregon. He's a health coach speaker and the author of two books on health, the Health why Understanding Evolution is the Key to Vibrant Health and Understanding the Surprising insights into the Evolutionary origins of Heart Disease and why it matters. Dr. Hussey guides clients from around the world back to health by using the latest research and heart health attaining strategies. And in his downtime, he likes to be outdoors, play sports, read, write and travel. And again, we are going to be digging into this today because this is the single most important aspect to women's health is their heart health. And I feel like it gets the kind of kind of intelligence not paid as much attention to as things like breast cancer. So we have a great guest. Stay with me. We'll be right back.

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Dr. Steven Hussey, welcome to the show.

Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Well, this is a topic I just think doesn't get enough attention to it. It's like the number one killer of women and everyone seems to ignore it. I'm not quite sure why, but I'd love to know how you got interested in heart disease.

Yeah, so I mean, like many people in this space, as my own health journey really that kind of forced me into being passionate about heart disease. As a child, I had a lot of inflammatory conditions that were unexplained by my doctors. Everything chronic hives to inflammatory bowel disease to asthma to allergies, all kinds of stuff ultimately ended up with autoimmune type 1 diabetes. And you know, I found out throughout the years that that heavily predisposes me to cardiovascular disease. And so throughout my all my learning, whether it was formal or informal learning or independent research, I've been really interested in heart disease and what causes it and how to prevent it.

That Makes sense. There's been a lot of talk lately, and I have my own thoughts on this, because you hear the research that only 12% of the population is metabolically healthy. Then you hear that that was before the pandemic. Then I started to look into what they called metabolic health. And I'm like, I don't think that's optimally healthy. Let's talk about, first of all, how you define metabolic health.

Yeah, I mean, I can even step back and say, how do I define health? And that's the ability of the body to adapt to different situations, whether that's your nervous system adapting or your metabolism adapting to different fuel sources. But I would define metabolic health as the ability of the body to readily go back and forth from burning different fuel sources and, and, and not have to have an adaptation period. Period. Like, like people who go on ketogenic diets, they have to have this, you week period where they have this keto flu because there's body has forgotten to learn how to burn fats. So metabolic health would be not having that, having that period. And you can go back and forth and burning carbohydrates and fats easily. But also from a very, you know, I guess testing standpoint, it would be low triglycerides and low fasting insulin. That would be.

All right, define when you say that low triglycerides what your ideal number is.

Yeah. So for me, it'd be less than 100.

Right. I know that study was like triglycerides less than 150. I go, that's not ideal.

No. And that study didn't include fasting insulin, which I think is really important.

Tests don't include fasting insulin. I go, you just missed the bigger, more important part of the equation. So, yes, that's a great point. Why do people want and need to know their fasting insulin and what should it be be?

Yeah. So for me, a good fasting insulin is probably below 10, ideal is probably below 5. That would, that would indicate that your body is very insulin sensitive, responding to insulin very well. And the reason we want that to be happening is because insulin is the, is the hormone that signals for growth and repair. And if we become resistant to that, to that hormone, then we're not getting growth and repair, which can become very problematic in lots of different aspects in the body, because insulin signaling happens pretty much everywhere in the body. But the reason that fasting insulin is so important is because you could have normal blood sugar or normal A1C and then your doctor would be like, oh, you're fine. You're not even pre diabetic. You're fine. But you could have very high fasting insulin levels, which suggests that your body's having to use more insulin to keep that blood sugar normal, which suggests you're insulin resistant. So you could pick up that insulin resistance years before it ever becomes prediabetes or diabetes.

Yeah, I'm just amazed that that just isn't, like, standard. Well, there's a couple things that should be standard. Like, how is vitamin D not standard? There's a couple problems out there, but this one especially, you have to make a point of getting that in your lab test because you're just not getting what you need in the picture for this. So someone is insulin resistant and they want to become insulin sensitive. What do they do?

I think, number one, I mean, these are metabolic issues. So it all. It really comes down to diet. I mean, there's lots of different ways that you. Or things that contribute to insulin resistance, but diet is number one. And I think the main thing causing a disruption or breaking our metabolism, causing insulin resistance is the seed oils that are so pervasive in our food supply. And I'm talking about the canola oil, the corn oil, soy oil, safflower oils, those types of oils.

Yeah, name them all. I really want people to understand this, think this is not talked about enough. And what drives me crazy is you go to the health food stores and they're using these oils. And so you go in the health food store and you think everything is healthy because it's called a health food store. But then it's got canola oil posing in there. So let's go through them. And then I want you to really talk about why these are so dangerous and why just a little bit is not okay.

Yeah. And my favorite is Whole Foods. You go into whole foods and to, like, the prepared food bar, you know, and everything, and they have everything soaked in canola oil, which is. Or everything cooked in canola oil.

I mean, that is criminal, honestly.

Yeah. Because this is touted as being healthier. The store is generally touted as being healthier. So, yeah, there's a few reasons why we don't want even a little bit of those oils. The first one is that they're. They. They contribute to a lot of what's called oxidative stress or inflammation or damage in the body. I would say because these oils themselves are very easily damaged because they're polyunsaturated, which means that they're less stable when they get exposed to, like, Heat and light. And so somewhere along the line, they've been transported in a hot truck or they've been exposed to too much light. And so they're very. They become oxidized and they become this damaging molecule when they get into your body. But even when they get into your body, if they weren't oxidized, um, they're very prone to oxidation. So even as they get metabolized or as they're exposed to other free radicals and things in our bodies, they become oxidized and then contribute to this bigger issue, which is oxidative stress and inflammation. So that, that, that would be the first one you can measure, you know, peroxidation of different fats in the body, if you wanted to look for that kind of stuff. But to me, the bigger issue is that when you look at how these oils are metabolized in, you know, in our cells, um, you know, in a way that, you know, would allow us to make energy. When these specific oils are metabolized, they seem to break our metabolism. They send to. They seem to send signals to the fat cells that tell the fat cells to be insulin sensitive, which makes them take in more energy and get bigger and bigger, which can lead to weight gain. But also, when that happens, the body sends out signaling molecules, fatty acid signaling molecules, to the rest of the body, telling it to be insulin resistant. And that becomes the issue in the endothelial cells and the immune system all over the body for insulin resistant. Our body's not functioning like it's supposed to. So that's the bigger issue.

Yeah. So you just told. Showed your body how to become a better fat store.

Exactly right.

And not to be able to use any kind of stored fat for fuel. You just lock the door, so.

Yeah, exactly.

Anyone listening wants that.

Yeah. And when these fat cells, you start, you know, they become insulin sensitive, they take. Start taking in more energy. Everybody has this personal fat threshold. So that's why you can get someone who looks pretty skinny or healthy, but they could be insulin resistant, because they've reached their fat threshold, they're not going to gain too much weight. And you can also get someone who is overweight who hasn't reached that threshold yet and is not diabetic yet or is not insulin resistant yet. So everybody's got this different fat threshold. But when you reach that fat threshold, the fatty acids actually start kind of spewing out of the fat cells because it can't hold anymore. And that is what I think of as if I think of triglycerides high in the blood, that's when that's happening, there's fat spilling out into the bloodstream and we're getting high triglycerides, which is indicative of poor metabolic health, insulin resistance.

So besides basically those fat cells being more receptive and welcoming, which is not what we want, is that the key way that that weight gain is happening or what else is going on?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's the key way that I would say that vegetable oils contribute to weight gain is because they signal the fat cells to take in more energy. But then if you look at the standard American diet, not only is it full of vegetable oils that are breaking the metabolism, it's also full of processed carbohydrates, the grains and the processed sugars and things like that, which is just throwing energy into the equation, which then these insulin sensitive fat cells just start soaking it all up and they get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Yeah, it's really quite stunning at this point. Now when you go into the grocery stores, if you try to, if you go in and you go, okay, I'm not going to get any damaged seed oils and I'm not going to do any kind of gluten grains and I'm going to stay away from like, you know, go to the vegetable section and go to the clean protein section and that's about it. What about atherosclerosis? Since we are talking heart health and let's, let's kind of dig into that. Atherosclerosis, cholesterol, how to look at things correctly.

Yeah. So the reason that, so there's plenty of research that shows that like the trig to HDL ratio or the fasting insulin markers of insulin resistance are way better biomarkers of if someone's going to have atherosclerosis.

Rather than first define atherosclerosis for everybody too, we're going to break this all down. So everyone has very specifics of what they can go and ask their doctor for. So first off, atherosclerosis.

So atherosclerosis is the, is the hardening of the arteries, you know, damage to the lining of the artery where there's, you know, ends up being a cholesterol deposition or mineral deposition into the lining of the artery which restricts its function. Right. But the curious thing is, is that there's a pathology book that I've read and it asked like 29 different so called experts in atherosclerosis what their definition was and they were all pretty much different. So we don't necessarily fully understand how this happens, but we do understand that it happens and that it's this hardening of the arteries. And so that's atherosclerosis.

Okay. And how does cholesterol play into that? And what should we really be looking at? Because you talked about the triglyceride to HDL ratio, I love to have you break down those different numbers that people should be looking at and understand how they. How they impact heart health.

Yeah. So the trig to HDL ratio is an indicator that we're insulin resistant. So there are triglycerides, like we mentioned before, we want lower than 100 HDL. I would want 50 or higher. But the ratio between the two is important. So we take that ratio. It should be. If we take triglycerides divided by HDL, it should be 1.5 or lower. That would indicate good metabolic health. Well, one thing that would indicate good metabolic health. And so the reason that that's relevant is because a, we're not looking at total cholesterol or ldl, which is what everybody's so hyper focused on. And when we look into that, there's really no sound evidence that those things on their own being elevated is indicative of any type of more heart disease or more heart attacks or whatever.

And that's such an important note, because that is still the thing that they're trying to drive down. When some studies show that that could create more problems.

Exactly. And some of the drugs they use to drive that down have been shown to actually create atherosclerosis because they inhibit the formation of K2, which is important for getting minerals where they need to go, which is not in the lining of the artery. It's in the bones and things like that. But the reason that this marker of insulin resistance is so good at predicting whether or not someone's going to have atherosclerosis, which is one form of heart disease, is because the key to atherosclerosis is that we get damaged in the lining of our arteries. This is just it almost normally supposed to happen. We get normal wear and tear. We can't get too much of it. In today's world, we have all this chronic stress and toxin exposure and poor diet and stuff like that that can lead to these insults to the lining of the artery. And the lining of the artery is supposed to be able to repair itself from this general wear and tear. However, the repair of those endothelial cells, the cells that line the artery, is dependent on insulin signaling. And so if we become insulin resistant, then we get that damage to the lying of the artery. And it cannot repair itself fast enough or at all because it doesn't have insulin signaling or proper insulin signaling. And that leads to this inflamed damage area that keeps kind of perpetuating. And so the body has to make a decision. It says, okay, we can just let this keep going, and the artery will rupture, which would be a very bad thing because then we'd bleed out. Or we could repair it with something, something else, you know. And so it takes cholesterol and other molecules, calcium, things like that, other minerals, and almost uses it as spackle to repair this lining or patch up this lining of the artery. That's not the best fix long term, but it's a fix in the moment that that works. And if we keep getting that damage, we'll keep getting more and more of this buildup of this narrowing of the artery in this repair. And that's when we get pretty advanced atherosclerotic disease.

Yeah. I have a buddy who is a cardiovascular surgeon who stopped doing that because he said, I was going in and doing angioblasts and trying to fix this, and I'd fix it, and then they'd go back, then they'd come back and I have to fix it. He's like, we weren't getting anywhere. It's like, so you really have to make those shifts. How would someone know that they have this issue right now? How would someone know how much damage they currently have?

As far as damage to the lining of an artery, there are certain markers you take, like the LPP, La2 or myeloperoxidase are two markers you could take in blood work that would tell you, help you assess, you know, how inflamed the lining of the artery is or arteries are in general. But you could also look at your levels of oxidative stress or inflammation in the body. So you could look at a high sensitivity C reactive protein. You could look at a ggt, which is a liver enzyme that suggests more oxidative stress in the liver. There's lots of different other things you could do. Markers of DNA damage, or like I was talking about before, markers of lipid damage, these different things that suggest oxidative stress. But one that's become more popular recently is a CT scan called a CAC score that people can take of their coronary arteries, their arteries in the heart. However, that score is a ct, and it'll just tell you if there's calcified areas. It won't tell you how much soft plaque or Newly developed atherosclerosis is there. So it can give you an idea of, like, long term, how you've been doing. But really also, you know, a CAC score is like one snapshot in time. It's really more useful if you have multiple ones to see how you're going. Because I've had people who say, you know, have come to me and said, I've been doing all the right things for years now and trying to reverse, you know, or get better health or whatever. And I get a CAC score and it's like 200. What's going on? It's like, well, how do you know it didn't start at 800? You know, because you just have this one score. So I just remind people of that.

Yeah, I think what's important here is that you've got to go beyond the basic blood tests that you're getting. Yeah, there's a lot more to look at. I'm going to dig more into that and more about what you can do about this right after the break. We'll be right back.

Some people think nature is like this, but actually it's like this. That's why Columbia engineers everything we make for anything nature can throw at you. Columbia engineered for whatever.

All right, so what I would love to know next is so someone has some damage and can you reverse this damage?

Well, interestingly, yes, and I'm living proof. So I actually, one of the things that got me interested, and I'm type 1 diabetic, I'm heavily predisposed, I actually got some atheroscopic damage in my lower leg or my leg, upper leg, causing lower leg symptoms, peripheral artery disease. I implemented some different things and I have now reversed that damage. I'm happy to say that, yes, you can. And I'm living truth. But I'm not the only one.

You can't just say I implemented some things. Now, you know, I'm going to dig in and go. And so those things would be what?

Yeah, so those things would be. You know, when I think about the things that cause heart disease, it's the poor metabolic health, which. My metabolic health has been good for a long time because I'm strict about that and diet and stuff. But it was also oxidative stress. So things that cause oxidative stress. So that can be diet, but it can also be toxin exposures in your environment. It can also be chronic psychological stress, these things that contribute to inflammation, oxidative stress. So when I look at the five big things in your environment, you should pay Attention to. To reduce your amount of environmental toxins you're exposed to. It's your food, it's your water, it's your air, it's your cosmetics and your cleaning products. Those are five big areas. You want to make sure that the things you're using are the least toxic as possible. The least amount of plastics, the least amount of pesticides sprayed. Filtering your water, filtering your air, all those types of things. Is there mold in your house? All this different stuff contribute to inflammation, oxidative stress in your body. And that's the stuff that destroys the lining of the artery. And so it was. It was looking into my environment there. But then also, I think the biggest thing I did was the use of infrared sauna. And so, you know, how many days.

A week are you doing infrared sauna?

At least five. If not, wow.

Holy smokes.

Yeah, and I upped it because I was doing it a little bit, you know, before, but I upped it quite a bit when I got that diagnosis, so.

And what did you see happen from that? I love that so much. I have a sunlight and infrared sauna, but I do not use it five days. And I haven't figured out how to travel with it. So that's the other problem.

That's rough. That's right.

Yeah. It's not very portable. So what have you seen happen with that use of the infrared sauna and how long are you using it for?

Yeah, so I use it for about 20 minutes every day. And I have the little relax farm for a sauna. So it's pretty concentrated. It's not like a big space, and it gets you hot really quick. So one of the things the sauna does is it detoxes you, which is helping me get rid of those environmental toxins that no matter how hard I try, I'm going to be exposed to. But the other thing is that it energizes the water in my blood, which helps it form structured water onto the lining of the artery. And structured water on the lining of the artery does two things. One, it promotes blood flow. It might be the main reason or the main way by which blood moves. And the second thing is that the way that it structures itself, it forms a protective barrier on the lining of the artery, which nothing can really penetrate besides small hydrated ions. So small hydrated minerals, pretty much. So anything else that's not structuring water will not penetrate the lining, cannot insult the lining, allowing it to heal as long as we have good insulin signaling.

All right, well, five days a week, I now Have a new goal. Although I have been cold plunging every so single day. That's, that's my latest one. Okay, so beyond diet and sauna, what else have you done?

I also did a few supplements, just healthier nutrients for the lining of the artery. Things like vitamin K2 and taurine, which you find, you know, pretty high in animal products, which I like to point out because people like to say that animal products cause heart disease. But that's much higher in, in, in animal foods. And it's really good for the lining of the. Also some citrulline and L arginine which are helping heal the endothelial cells and help them function better. And also did a little serrapeptase. So things that are going to help break down clots and fibrous like tissue in the body, which is what that atherosclerosis can become. So I did that stuff as well.

And so you just threw one out there. I've got to pull up because you said there is such this thought process out there and I'll ask people what they're eating. I always ask everyone what they eat and it's almost like people are embarrassed if they eat red meat. But I'd only eat one or two servings a week and it's grass fed. What do you say about. Because there's so much misinformation out there, I think that animal products cause heart disease. When you really look at it and go, just like you pulled out damaged seed oils and processed grains are. If you really look at it, those are the problems. But somehow, you know, the grass fed cows have gotten beaten up. So what do you say about that? How, you know, why is there this big myth out there that animal fat and animal protein causes heart disease? I think part of it might be because. Because the challenge I always have is you cannot compare a factory cow to a grass fed and finished pastured cow. They're totally different things. But what do you say to all of that to put people's minds at ease?

Yeah, I say that when we look at the history of how that idea came about, it doesn't make sense. There was a lot of low quality science that was done that brought people to that conclusion about the saturated fat and cholesterol which is in animal foods. Does that cause heart disease? And the foundation for that argument is based on what's called epidemiological studies or associational studies that can't really prove causation. It can't flesh out the different factors that may be identifying those associations. Then when you Actually, look at it. When that theory was tested in the 60s and they did do clinical trials and stuff where they had people replace saturated fat with unsaturated fat, they did not get the result they were expecting. In fact, the people who ate more unsaturated fat had more heart disease and more all cause mortality. And so. But by that time this theory had taken off. There was a lot of, there was a lot of money and support pushing this theory along. And so it kind of stuck until the science started coming out even more and more and people started pushing back. And we're starting to see more and more evidence now that this is not the case. And unfortunately, it's almost like conventional wisdom now that people think that animal foods cause heart disease, which is a travesty to me, because animal foods, you know, in a, in a population that is severely undernourished, yet overfed, animal foods can be that food that provides you a lot of protein, a lot of minerals, a lot of good energy source in the form of fat. And people are avoiding it. And it's really sad to me because we need it more than ever now.

Right?

Yeah. I've been doing a bunch of interviews for a summit I'm putting on what to eat, when to eat and why, and I've been asking all the speakers, like, what are the three foods you would take if you were going to a deserted island? And you couldn't have anything, like there's no fish or anything else, and you could only have those three foods. And grass fed beef with all of them. It's like the majority like grass fed beef, some are wild salmon, but it's, you know, pretty much everyone's had animal protein in there. So pretty telling. But it is crazy how these myths take hold and then you just can't seem to shake them loose, no matter what. I mean, some of my closest friends will say, but I only eat red meat once or twice a week. And I'm like, why? Where did that come from? You know?

Yeah. And then like I said, there's all this industry backing into that idea. And so that's what we see on tv. That's what we see from academic institutions and government agencies. That's what they're recommending. So it's just people who don't take the time to look into it more. That's what they're getting bombarded with.

Right. And you always have to look at where those recommendations came from. That's why I love the fact that you went back and did Evolutionary Origins of Heart Disease. It's like, why did this all start? What's changed? I mean, you look at what happened around the turn of the 19th century versus now and the change in our diet, and it's like, okay, what's changed? Right? I mean, exactly. You know, so much has changed. It's kind of crazy, but.

Yeah. And that's, you know, how I understand things from evolutionary perspectives, what helped me to understand stuff. And so I went back and I, I looked at all that in my book and, and, and, and I hope people realize that all the time. I went through evolutionarily to build up to this. Then in 1950, we decided fat was bad hardener and saturated fat was bad. It doesn't make sense.

No, it doesn't. It was. Well, when I was writing Sugar Impact Diet, I went back and pulled everything I could find. And it is, it is so clear the case again. Sugar is so clear. And this one horrible human, that's all I can say. Because, I mean, I think, you know, he is responsible for hurting so many people. This Ancel Keys. He really is the person that made the shift to make us think cholesterol is bad. Like misinterpreting the study. And that sugar makes, you know, that, that sugar is not the problem. Fat makes us fat. And everything flipped and everyone got afraid of fat and everyone started thinking sugar was okay. And I was like, hold on, you know?

Yeah, scary.

Yeah. Now look where we are. And, you know, it's. You look at the metabolic damage that's happened and, you know, it doesn't happen overnight. So you make these shifts and it seems like it's okay because these things, you know, diabetes happens over a decade, not over a day. And all of a sudden you go, gosh, now what? Now what do we do?

Yeah. Which is why that fasting insulin number is so important, because diabetes does develop over a decade. What if we caught it in the second year? Yeah, yeah.

Then we could give them more medications.

That would be the approach.

Pre diabetic medication. Oh, my goodness. All right. We won't even go down that path. Now, I know that you have a great handout for everybody because it is confusing going to the, the store. And I think that, you know, unless you know which oils you should be looking for, which or shouldn't be buying and which fats you should be looking for, what you should be eating, what you shouldn't be. You know, one of the most therapeutic things you can do is I call it making an oil change kind of a play off a car. But it's really making Shifting fats and knowing what are the good fats and what aren't. So you've got a grocery shopping list with studies to back it up. Right. That you're going to give everybody.

That's right. Yeah. Just kind of going through the. The top five fats you should be looking for and shouldn't be looking for. Perfect. In the grocery store.

Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, you just really need a couple go tos, a couple staples. What do you cook with? What do you put on your salad? And by the way, those salad dressings and especially. And I'm still. I went to the health food store. I was looking at all the salad dressings. I'm like, they all. Except for my buddy Mark Sisson's primal kitchen. All the rest of them have crap.

Exactly. Yeah. And they're touted as being healthy. Yeah.

Drives me nuts. I'm, I'm gonna do my best to expose that because this is really hurting us and it's just, it's just wrong. So we're gonna put that fat guide. We'll make it simple. We'll put it@jjvirgin.com FatGuide There you go. Don't like to overthink them. So again, you can grab that. Go arm to the grocery store with this so you'll know exactly what to do. Get it@jjvirgin.com fat guide. And Dr. Hussey, thank you so much for being with me today.

Thanks for having me.

All right. There's so many crazy things out there in the world of heart health that again, started, started back in the day when all of a sudden fat was bad. So that really triggered a whole lot of problems, as you can see. So I want to make sure you do go to the grocery store knowing which oils you should be running away from and which oils and fats you can be focusing on. There's just a couple. Once you learn them, stock your pantry, you're golden. Right? And again, just like sugar hiding in so many sauces. Same with bad seed oils. They hide in a lot of these dressings and sauces. So the easiest thing is to make your own. And by the way, in the sugar impact diet and virgin diet, I have like amazing recipes, recipes for salad dressings. So that's a little, a little tip for you. Okay? So remember to get that guide@jjvirgin.com forward slash fat guide. And if you are not a subscriber yet, I don't want you to miss anything. So go to subscribetojay.com so that you can subscribe and review and I'll see you next time.

Foreigners this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things Books and Reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website whatshould I readnext podcast.com to find out more.