Radiant Relief with Brendon Lundberg

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This show is about you, not about me. I want to help you find practical, real world ways to dial in your health and mindset so you can finally lose that weight and feel strong and energized. Stop settling for less than your personal best. It's time to find out how to look and feel better than ever. And I'll be right here with you the whole way. Hello hello, welcome to today's Podcast. We are tackling a super important subject today and one that has been a big deal in my life for years and years and years and years. Actually, it's been a big deal and a small deal and today we're talking about pain. And I had an injury when I was 17 that literally resulted in a total knee replacement a couple years ago. But basically I was able to put off that surgery for decades. And part of it is I'm going to just toot my own horn. The Virgin Diet. But actually what you're going to hear about today in this podcast is how that initial injury actually motivated the Virgin Diet. And more importantly, that we've been really looking at pain all wrong. We've been addressing the symptoms, not the cause. That the cause can be something totally different than what you think and once you figure that out, you can actually fix this and hopefully avoid some of the things I've gone through. So I am really fired up to share our guest with you today. I met him at an event in Orlando, Florida last year. I was so fired up when I heard about with him that I got involved with his company and I sent my hubby Tim over to Go through his process, which you're going to hear about too. So if you're in pain, have ever been in pain, have a family member in pain, a friend in pain, or think that you might be in pain in the future. Yes. I just know that I listed everybody. You are going to want to listen into today's podcast. I'm going to be talking with my buddy Brendan Lundberg who has co founded Radiant Pain Relief Centers and he has been on a mission to change the way chronic pain is treated. And also he's got a lot of experience in healthcare management and marketing and business development. So you put the two together and honestly it's magic. Plus, he is going to be giving you a copy. You know how I always get everyone to give you something super cool as a gift? He's going to give you a copy of his best selling book, Radiant Relief A Case for a Better Solution to Chronic Pain. And in that he's also going to share some things you can do right now. We'll share them today too so that if you are hurting, you can start to turn that around quickly. By the way, he has gotten a bunch of awards for his companies lives in Portland and he's expanding this out throughout the country. So you'll want to grab his book. You can get that@jjvirgin.com forward slash relief. And of course you'll get the notes from today's show. We always put together great, great cliff notes of the show because I know you're probably working out right, or driving and I don't want you have to worry about being able to write it all down. So we got that all covered for you. Plus we've got the great gift@jjvirgin.com forward slash relief. All right, Brandon Lundberg, welcome to the show. I'm sorry. So excited to be talking with you today.

Thank you, jj. I'm honored to be here.

Well, this is a hugely important topic and I'm just going to preface this by saying, okay, today we're talking about pain and I think that if you're listening, you probably have experienced something that hurt you. Now, we're not talking emotional pain, although that factors in here. But you probably had something that hurt you acutely. And then if you're like most of us, the real challenge is those things that go on and on and on. When I was 17 kind of dictated a lot of my career, actually. I was a point ballerina, which is ridiculous. I'm 6ft tall, which is how this accident happened. I blew out my knee. I tore My acl. And it really kind of changed my whole life because I had a chronic pain problem. And then the chronic pain problem led to chronic GI issues from the resolutions back then. So today, if you're listening, if you have any pain, if you've ever been in pain, if you've got a family member in pain, or if you know that pain's in your future. So basically, I'm covering everybody. We have a brand new way to look at pain that offers a lot of hope and new solutions because the challenge is the over the counter medications can cause the food intolerance that I write about in the virgin diet. And the other solutions have created a massive addiction problem. So we are here today to talk to you to give us a new way to look at pain. And Brendan, what I'd love to dove in before we even go there is why did you get interested in this?

Well, that's a really good question. I mean, you know, from, from the standpoint of starting my business, to be honest, the initial, the initial motivation was an economic one, you know, to be an entrepreneurial and start a company that I was excited about.

You're like, everyone's in pain. I'll do that.

Yeah, kind of. I mean, I saw an opportunity with a therapy that had been ignored and, but, but as the time has gone on, my why has certainly shifted. To see people reclaim their lives, reclaim hope, return back to joy and productivity and connection in their lives to a deeper level is so meaningful to me. And I'm a pain sufferer myself, so, you know, I have an insight to what that's like. But to see people who can barely function, they can hardly stand at the kitchen sink and, you know, wash the dishes or make dinner or go to work or get out of bed or be intimate with their companion and see those things restored back is, I mean, it's a life changing experience for those involved. And for those of us, it's something.

You don't think about. Like, I, I always had the knee pain and I just, I likened it to having dull toothache a lot of the time. But then I went and worked in physical therapy. I was an exercise physiologist. So one of my friends said an office, I'm like, sure, I'll come in and set up all your programs. Wow, that was a really, a really eye opening experience because people who are in chronic debilitating pain are not. It's impossible really to be happy.

Well, I mean, physically you hurt and then, you know, it starts to. You can handle that for a few Days, you know, following an injury, or a few weeks, you know, as you're recovering. But when it goes on for years or decades, it really does rob you of who you are. And so many of our clients that we see in our clinics and that I talk to across the country and throughout the world, they feel trapped in bodies that have, in their minds, kind of betrayed them, and they're baffled. And many times their doctors are baffled as to why this pain is lingering when, you know, they look under MRI or X ray and there's no clear pathology in the tissue that's warranting this pain experience. So it's really exciting for us to be able to champion and evangelize a message of hope and new science and hopefully help people get their lives back.

Well, let's talk about that, because I know. First of all, let's dig into first. What is pain? The most basic thing, before we talk about all the new changes. So what's pain? And I. And obviously, we just kind of said a little bit that there's this acute pain, which is not usually the issue because it goes away. It's the chronic pain that. That just wrecks your life. So let's kind of share what that is first.

All pain actually comes from the brain and not from the tissue. The tissue actually has no ability to feel pain. It just has receptors. Those receptors gather information, transmit it through the nervous system. Their brain interprets it and assigns value in the short term. Feeling pain because you've hurt yourself or there's a disease growing in your tissue is a protective function. It alerts us and causes us to take action and to try to solve the problem that's underlying it. But chronic pain is a little bit different. The brain essentially becomes habitualized or creates neural pathways to expect the pain and to generate the pain, really, regardless of what's going on in the tissue. And the tissue is actually kind of in a reaction mode to that expectation of pain that's being caused by the brain. But most of the therapies that people have prescribed to them or that they pursue or that are covered by insurance only address the tissue. Or they're a drug that has all these side effects and addictions and risks and complications that we see happening across the country.

I know we're hearing so much about. Well, I know the side effects. I mean, literally, it is why I wrote the Virgin Diet was chronic knee pain. And a doctor who told me I could have as much Advil as I wanted. Can you imagine? I was like, okay, you know, and, yeah, that. Then Creates food intolerance, and then food intolerance creates inflammation, and then inflammation creates more pain. It was a really bad. It's a vicious cycle. But hey, let's face it, the opiate, the opioid epidemic is way bigger than that. Like, how big is this chronic pain problem?

Well, in the United States, 100 million Americans have chronic pain. So that's more than cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease combined. It's enormous. Last year, in 2017, 72,000 people died of opioid overdose. And tens or hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people are addicted. And just like the over the counter, the impact of the body. And it's very common, I mean, frankly, jj, to hear physicians, our clients tell us that their physicians have basically said, look, we're going to keep prescribing these medications to you until one of two things happens. Your pain goes away, which really never happens, or the side effects become too intolerable, that you can't live this way anymore. And so the opioids, not only are they highly addictive, but they cause constipation, they cause disruption to digestion, and so it's hard to process and eliminate waste and to absorb proper nutrition. And inevitably, chronic pain sufferers, after years or decades of living this way become very complicated. Their sleep has been been compromised. You know, they've gained weight. They've been withdrawn from activities and people and environments that bring them joy and connection and make them feel human. And so, you know, it's really just unfortunate that we've had this problem kind of evolve. And I think it's part in part because everybody experiences pain, so we think we understand it. And because people don't typically die directly from pain itself, they may have another terminal condition. The research and education around it has been really kind of minimized. And much like we've seen in food science and nutritional guidelines, what science has been kind of commonly understood and promoted has been biased by industry.

So if you look at everything that they're doing right now, it's just band aiding the problem. And if anything, it's making it worse over time. Like there's. This isn't doing anything to fix it. So the question is, I know there's that you've been digging into new information and is there a way to actually help this rather than just band aid it? And inside it's not even a band aid because it's actually making it worse.

It's making it worse. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think the first thing is I want everybody listening who's either in pain or, you know, somebody they care for and love is in pain, to know that there is hope. You know, the modern science of pain has changed so dramatically. And really, it's neuroscience, it's understanding the brain and understanding the brain's involvement in our physical experience and in the tissue. I recently wrote a book, and in the book I make the analogy that pain, even though we experience it certainly in the short term, is kind of a cause and effect thing. And we think of it as something wrong in the tissue. In chronic pain, the tissue could be fully healed. The pain experience is lingering longer than is appropriate. And a way to understand this is to think about phantom pain. You know, in phantom pain, the part of the body where the pain is being experienced doesn't even exist. It's been removed or lost in an accident. And so it's clearly not a problem of the tissue, because in that case, there is no tissue. So it's neurogenic or driven by the brain. So in the book, I make the analogy that chronic pain is really more like credit card debt. And it's an accumulation of different threat events or charges to a credit card, if you will. If you think of it that way, that happen over time. And if I have a credit card with $3,000 limit and I start using that credit card for routine things like gas and groceries and school supplies for the kids, everything's fine as long as I pay the bank the minimum payment every month. But if there's a triggering event, a significant event, in some cases, like all of a sudden the car breaks down and I have to spend $1700 for a new car transmission, and I only have fifteen hundred dollars of available credit on my card, metaphorically, this is a very painful experience because I only have a big bill, but now I'm over my limit. And if I was reliant upon that credit card to buy food or pay my utility bill because I don't get paid for another week and a half, then the impact of what that single event has costing me is significantly increased. And we think of it very cause and effect. Well, it's because of this dang car repair bill. But really, if we didn't have so much debt on the account already, then our body could have withstood that. So part of the fact that we have such an enormous chronic pain problem is that we have an enormous population of people who are just not very healthy either. And so, you know, my message is one of education about the neuroscience of pain and helping empower people with knowledge and tools that can really help Shift their pain a significant way, not just mask it with a drug.

I love that because I will tell you, you know, I finally had to have a knee replacement, but I injured my knee at 17 and I blew it out totally at 25. I had five repairs, but it never worked. And I literally walked into a doctor's office, I think five years ago, and he looked at me, goes, how are you walking? Like I've looked at your X rays, you're bone on bone, your joints collapse. And not only was I walking, I was hiking, I was working out like everything. And it was like a dull toothache, but it didn't stop me. And I know that the reason I was able to pull off what I was pulling off was because I kept it strong, I kept moving. I had an anti inflammatory diet, I took great supplements, I dealt with my food intolerance, you know, all this stuff. So I know this is possible. Even though that hadn't been my focus. It was interesting. When I was on PBS for the Virgin diet, I had a guy call in who was 80 years old and he wanted to call in to thank me because he had gone back to work. He was supposed to have a hip replacement. When he went on the virgin diet and he started dealing with food intolerances, his inflammation went down so much you didn't have to have a hip replacement. So clearly there's these things out there that were just not sharing. And I know that you're really like, this is your whole world, you're on the forefront of it. I want to talk about what you're doing with your clinics, but I want to also make sure that we give everyone listening something they can do right now, today that's going to start helping as well. So let's, let's kind of go high level of what you discovered. And I think a lot of it has to do with the neuroscience of pain. And then let's come back to some tips people can do right now.

Yeah. And I think just to, just to comment on what you, what the point you just made about staying active and, you know, minding your diet and being as healthy and active as you are. So many people unfortunately get this diagnosis of a herniated disc or arthritis or whatever it is, and they identify with that. And because frankly, clinicians in our country have been so ill educated and informed by science. I mean, most of them are trained in something called the GATE control theory of pain, which was published in the 1960s. So they're operating on a really a fundamental misunderstanding of pain. To begin With. And so.

Well, what's that theory and why is it wrong?

Well, it's a very cause and effect theory. And one of the primary authors of that, Melzack, in the late 90s, basically created a whole new explanation for pain that's much more appropriate and that's really evolved. And again, it's more like credit card debt. Our nervous system's job is to keep us alive. That's its primary function. And so that means a couple of things. It means, number one, keeping us safe in our environment, and number two, keeping us upright and agile so that we can move and function and hunt and avoid danger. And so, you know, our nervous system, in an effort to keep us alive, records every event, probably from the time of in utero, you know, conception through our life, childhood illnesses and traumas. And this is not. We talk about pain being a product of the brain. This is not something that's in our frontal cortex, our conscious modern brain. I mean, this is deep, primitive, ancestral brain type of functioning. And its job is to keep us alive. So it records all these different threat experiences in an effort to know that in the future, if we come back to a situation like this, that we need to be vigilant or protective because we could be potentially putting ourselves in a place that's harmful. So in the hierarchy of needs of the nervous system, the first is our vision system. Second is our vestibular or our balance system, which is primarily located in the organs of our inner ear. And then the third is our sensory systems, proprioception. So that's touch and feel and temperature and. And those things. And so what happens is essentially there could be an event that happened as a child, you know, a bad ear infection that's disrupted the brain's processing of input coming from our vestibular system. And so in time, that will manifest later on down, down the life in a pain output. I'll just use myself as an example. If you were to look at me, particularly if I'm pretty tired or if I've had a few adult beverages, my right eye gets a little bit droopy. I'm kind of like, you know, that actor, Forest Whitaker a little bit, you know. And so because of that, my nervous system says if there's a threat in your environment and the woolly mammoth was to come out of the bushes, you're more vulnerable here on the right side because your right eye is not playing ball. So it creates a very subtle adjustment in my physiology so that my left eye is positioned to be able to scan the landscape just A little bit more dominantly. So there's a slight tilt of my head. Well, that tilt in my head creates adjustments throughout the spine, particularly in gait when I'm walking. And so the manifestation is pain that develops in my low back. And if I was to go to traditional routes or the gamut of alternative care, it's like, adjust, adjust, adjust. I'm going to the chiropractor. The orthopedist wants to operate and put in rods to help strengthen out my back. The pain doctor wants to give me injections, prescribe me medication. And so understanding the new neuroscience of pain, we can identify that this right eye of mine is really the culprit. It's the neurologic deficiency that's causing my body to.

How the heck would they ever figure that out, Brendan? Like I'm listening something about how many times I've gone to my chiropractor because like my back needs adjustment or something else. And what if it was that? Like how the heck they figured that out?

It probably is that. Yeah, I mean. Well, I mean, that's part of what, that's part of my effort right now is to evangelize these things that we think of. We were even, even the non invasive approaches like chiropractic. And I grew up with chiropractic care. I love it. But, but it isn't maybe necessarily hitting the mark because it's adjusting. It's addressing the dysfunction of output versus the neurologic input that may be causing, you know, the, the manifestation of dysfunction or pain to be present. So, you know, it sounds very complicated, but it's actually fairly elegant and fairly simple. And I think one of the most important things people can do is to be able to understand that pain is neurogenic. It's, it is trying to get our attention, but it's.

Pain is neurogenic. What does that mean?

Pain neurogenic? So it means that it comes from the brain. And so, you know, pioneers like Dr. John Sarno, maybe you've heard of, some of your listeners have heard of. He was scrutinized by a lot of his peers because, you know, he taught things like mindfulness and meditation to help shift pain. But the truth is those things can be very profound for people. You know, fortunately in our clinics and what we're building, we have a therapy that's pretty efficient to help accelerate that. But anything that changes the brain. So when we start to sleep better and move better and eat better, when we start to change our mindset, we become more mindful. We surround ourselves in environments that are conducive. And, you know, the ironic thing is because pain does rob us of joy and connection in our lives. If we can begin to shift back into that in even subtle ways like focusing on gratitude and focusing on the things that we have to be excited about in our lives, even if they're not as fulfilling as we'd like them to be, those things can change the chemistry of the brain and they can, you know, significantly and literally shift the pain experience in the body.

So what are you doing at your clinics?

Well, in our clinics, we prime. The primary thing that we do is deliver therapy that allows us to retrain the brain through artificial nerve impulses and restore it back to a more normal perception of pain. This is, you know, cutting edge technology and it's, it's remarkable. It's FDA cleared, but it's been ignored by most mainstream medicine because they, you know, most clinicians are trained, like I said, in old school science, and they don't really understand this most recent neuroscience of pain. And there's an economic disincentive in many cases for them to migrate away from the current therapies that people are, are doing because insurance pays for them or industry pays for them. And, you know, it's kind of the path of least resistance. But so, you know, we're building a kind of a disruptive approach, a whole new approach that, you know, is preceded by our, our need and our desire to educate people, including clinicians, more about the neuroscience of pain and empower them to be educated and then, you know, when it makes sense, deliver that therapy to them in person.

It's just, it follows everything I believe in, which is figure out what the heck is really going on and fix that. And you know, I am a big fan of chiropractic and naturopathic medicine, but I'm thinking, you know, I've been working on some things that just aren't getting better. And we're probably not really addressing this situation. It was, I was at a dinner party the other night. You got of a lot love all of us. We go to dinner parties because this is the stuff that happens. We were actually at a restaurant. There was, it was Dave Asprey, Dr. Pedram, Shai, Jeff Hayes, the filmmaker, another chiropractor, Warren Phillips, who's got this whole detox program. So we're all sitting around one of the guys, chiropractor. I'm like, oh yeah, my neck. So next thing you know, he is now adjusting everyone around the table, right? And I mean, you can Literally hear right. It's hilarious. I'm thinking the other diners must be going, what is wrong with these people? But he goes to adjust my neck, which had been bugging me for days. And he goes, this is not your. He goes, what are you so stressed about? My husband's smirking at me because of course he's not. He's like, oh my gosh, this is all stress because this is not happening at your neck, it's happening in your back. They'll keep adjusting your neck. It will never fix. It's here, you got to fix this. And I'm like going, well, darn. And then you just said that and it's, it just underscores the message that we've got to figure out what's really going on. And it sounds like that's what you're really focusing on, which I love. Now, you know, my biggest advice is run to your clinics. I know you're going to give everyone your book, which I'm super excited about because you have your best selling book, Radiant Relief Case for a Better Solution to Chronic Pain. And you've already kind of blasted out some ideas that we can do right now to get help. Tell us what's in the book and how that's going to help someone listening right now start to feel better.

The most important thing is empowerment and education. You know, so many people, again as I mentioned, I think when they get a diagnosis, they really attach identity to that and that becomes limited to their belief in their ability to be able to reclaim their lives. And because for chronic pain sufferers, the therapies that are have, you know, generally available haven't done uniformly a consistent and effective job at resolving pain. Most, most sufferers become really discouraged and then that, that compounds the problem. So I think education, you know, like I, like we've talked about the, the, the emerging neuroscience of pain is really empowering. Understanding the economic and industry drivers that have prevented innovation faster and then, you know, understanding our vision for changing the way that chronic pain is understood and how it's treated and, and then, you know, to the degree that we can help serve people in our clinics, we'd love to do that, you know, connect with people, help share our message of hope and understanding and you know, participate as we build things disruptive business and you know, shift, shift society in some.

Way going to, I know, change the whole way we deal with pain. Because just for every listing, you have a way when people walk into your clinic that they can walk in with pain and walk out feeling remarkably better. In just one time like this is unheard of, you know.

Yeah. And even if there's not a total reduction in pain, many times they see a significant, if not total reduction in and pain most of the time in the very first session. But what we're doing is retraining the brain. So it's a process of neuroplastic change or neuroplasticity. And it's just like anything the brain is learning, it's repetition and exposure. So the process of really getting durable or lasting relief is one that's only achieved through a series of treatments, typically over a few weeks time. And then maybe they need periodic boosters. We actually sell it on a membership so that clients have access to it throughout the years. They need, need to get relief and then to maintain that relief. But you're right, I mean in the very first session we can typically get a significant level of relief. And I think even more important is that we rekindle hope. And when somebody has their hope rekindled, you know, jj, you've seen it in the work that you've done with helping people lose weight and get their health back from, from a nutritional standpoint, they become empowered. And that is such a beautiful thing. When somebody has their hope rekindled, you know, watch out because they're, they're, they're going to change their lives, which is going to change their world.

Exactly. And that's what I wanted to really get, get out to everybody is this idea that this, like I didn't know before, I, I, you know, I know that I was able to put off a surgery for decades because of just the diet, but now I wonder if I could have put it off all together just with this technology. So I love the fact that you are changing the way that we look at this. Getting to the root cause, helping retrain the brain and, and again, just what you said. I do see so many people myself, I include that just becomes, you know, part of your identity. It doesn't need to be. So I want to emphasize to everybody, I've put this, this bestselling book up for free at JJ vin.com forward/herior. Thought that'd be perfect. Brendan. So yes, JJ virgin.com relief you can grab your copy, a digital copy of the best selling book Radiant Relief. A case for a better solution to chronic pain. You'll have some things you can get started right away and also learn where some of these centers are where you can literally go in. And I think you go in right for the first time and get your first Session for free.

That's right. Yeah. The first session is totally free and we invest typically about two hours with our clients, getting to know them, understanding their why, and really anchoring back into their reason for wanting to reclaim their life. Sometimes they've lost sight of that. You know, they've just been in survival mode. And so we want to focus back on what is important to them, what are they fighting for, educating them about, you know, our therapy and the neuroscience of pain and then treating them for free.

Love that. That is just phenomenal. All right, so thank you so much, Brendan, for coming on today. I super appreciate you and I love the work that you're doing. It's amazing. Alrighty now, after the break, I'm going to be answering listeners questions. So stay with me.

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Welcome back. All right, this is the time where we answer a listener's question. My favorite. So I get these on my lives. I love to go live on Instagram and Facebook. Hopefully you're joining me over at both of those places. Instagram is JJ Virgin. Facebook is JJ Virgin. Official. Hang out with me and ask questions. And so we're always pulling questions off of there, off of my direct messages. You can always shoot me a little one there. And here's one because I like to grab them when they're specific to the show. Here's one from Nancy and Corona, like very close to me and she says, I've got your fast fitness program. I am wanting to work out, but I've got knee pain. What can I do? All right, so here's the deal. And I kind of mentioned this on the show with Brendan. I used to work in a physical therapy office and these were actually old clients of mine. When I was a personal trainer, I moved to the desert. They brought me in their work with them. And I have a very different philosophy on working with pain because back then it used to be all right, if something hurt, avoid it. I'm like, well, how's that going to help? It's just going to make it worse over time. So what I always try to do is strengthen the area in a controlled environment as much as possible. So one of my favorite things to do to help strengthen these. Now I always have to say consult your doctor, work with your physical therapist. I especially love if you can work with your physical therapist to design an exercise program. But I know I was able to put off the inevitable on my knee for years and years and years because of a couple of things that I'm going to give them to you. Number one was the virgin diet. It was kind of in a way a silver lining that I was told to use as much Advil as I wanted because that gave me leaky gut. And because I had leaky gut, my body started creating an inflammatory response to the most common food intolerances. Gluten, dairy, corn, soy and when I eggs. When I pulled those out, my inflammation went down to dramatically. So first thing is to to focus on healing your leaky gut. That's the virgin diet. We've got a free challenge that'll help you there. Jjvirgin.com forward/challenge. Again this will all be in those show notes. Don't stress out. If you're like I'm driving, you can get that@jj virgin.com forward slash relief. We'll put this all there. But that's the first thing. Then the next thing was I was doing besides doing an anti inflammatory diet, I was doing things that helped reduce inflammation. Fish oil is a biggie here. Two to five grams of fish oil a day can help dramatically. Antioxidants are very beneficial and curcumin is amazing. We'll put in the notes a way for you to get a curcumin chew that is just delicious. It's something I use every day. And of course antioxidants can help lower something called highly sensitive crp C reactive protein, which is a measure of inflammation in the body. But it's first the diet, then essential fatty acids, especially fish oil. Omega 3 is anti inflammatory. And then I did very carefully controlled exercises to help strengthen the muscles. And I loved using the exiser and I still do for this and I know that's why I was able to put this off for so long. Again I told the story of I walked into the doctor's office and they're like, how the heck are you walking? Well, because I'd strengthened everything. I was on an anti inflammatory diet. I was doing a lot of things to reduce inflammation in my body through supplementation and then I was keeping the area strong through exercise. I was using the exciser and then I talk about this a lot in my fast fitness program. We'll link to that too where I modify exercises like doing a ball wall squat to really keep everything strong. So that is super duper critical. And then of course, grab the ebook from my awesome guest Brendan today and he's going to give you more things you can do. And I mentioned that my hubby has chronic knee pain. We cannot figure out what the heck it is. And we are working with one of his clinics to get that out of there because again, like, when we went and looked at what it really was, it's not what they said it was. So clearly there's something else at play. And that's the most important thing, is figure out what's really causing the pain in the first place and fix that. All right, now we're on to gratitude. Gratitude first for my guest Brendan, just for being so generous and then also for being generous with my husband and helping him. And then gratitude to Antoinette. Antoinette 0217 and Antoinette says love this podcast. Five stars. I have had JJ's Cookbook for about two years. I occasionally would make a recipe. I recently bought her Paleo shake and I'm extremely happy with it. Her podcast is interesting. She has lots of interesting guests and focus on topics relevant to my health and wellbeing interests. Well, thank you so much, Antoinette. We love to feature someone every week on the podcast. Big gratitude. Big thank you for this. And so if you have not yet done a shout out, my gosh, can I, like, entice you to do so? I'll, I'll share your love back on the show. And it helps so much. So many podcasts, so much stuff going on out there. And when you say how much you love it and subscribe to it and share it with your friends, guess what happens? We get the message out there even, even bigger. And I'm working on now going to two per week and bringing on more awesome guests. And I need your help to do so. My goal is to help a billion people get healthy. And that's not a goal I'm going to accomplish on my own. It is by getting the message out and sharing all of my cool friends with all of you with immediate things that you can put into action so that not only are you listening to great information, but you've got something you can do right away after each show. So that's my big advice today, is you heard something that you, you can do, go out and do it. And I will see you next week. Bye.

That's all for this episode of the JJ Virgin Lifestyle show, which marks another step towards a healthier body and mind. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the show, and we'll talk to you next week.

Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things Books and Reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading Next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a the page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.