Rewriting Your Food Story with Elise Museles

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Listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.

Hey, this is JJ Virgin. Welcome and thanks so much for joining me. This is Ask the Health Expert. Here I put the power of health in your hands and give you access to the top people in health and wellness. In each episode I share safe ways to get healthy, lose weight, heal your gut, detox, and lots more. So if you want to get healthy and get off the dieting for life merry go round, I'll give you strategies that will help you look and feel better fast. Have you ever wondered why you choose some of the foods you do? Or if you're like Russian eating or not Russian eating but rushing while eating? Or maybe you just kind of do some things with food that you wish you didn't, but they just seem to be ingrained. Well, that's what we're going to be digging into today. We're going to be talking about how to rewrite your food story and it's all based on Elise Mussellas new book, the Food Rewrite the Way youy Eat, Think and Live. So Elise, who actually was an immigration attorney in her past life, is now deep into holistic health and integrative healing. She's on the Environmental Working Group Board of Directors and has been a National Institutes of Health Grant recipient for five years in a row. She's a sought after speaker and host of of the Popular Once a food story podcast. Her work's been featured in O the Oprah Magazine, Forbes, Health in Touch, Self, Elle, the Chalkboard, Mind, Body Green and other outlets. And you will be able to download her pantry list and it's this is really cool. You'll hear about this during the interview. What this pantry list is all about. You're definitely going to want to get it. You can get it@jjvirgin.com foodstory and I will be right back with Elise. Stay with me.

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Alrighty. Elise, I'm so excited to have you on the show and to get to know you.

I'm so happy to be here and I've been a big fan of yours for years.

Ah, well, that always warms my heart. I appreciate that. What I would love to know Cause I really literally know nothing about you. However, I was so intrigued with what you do, and I think the audience is gonna be intrigued with it too, and it's super helpful. So. And this whole idea of discovering your food story and changing your life. So we are gonna be digging into this today, and what I really wanna know is, like, how did you get into this? Like, where'd you start?

Where did I start with food story or just get into nutrition?

I mean, you know, I could say, how'd you get into food? But we've all been into food since the moment we were born. But, yeah, you know, what got you into nutrition and then down this path?

Okay, well, that's a really good question. Well, I grew up in la, so that is very telling and, you know, says a lot about where my passions came from. But I didn't. This is actually my second career. I practiced immigration law before I got into nutrition. And when I first started with nutrition, I was very fixated on the food, the what you're eating. And I soon discovered I was working with all these really smart and savvy people who could, you know, practically write their own books on nutrition, that there was just this missing piece. And I really think that the missing piece for me, because I was eating all the right things and doing the right things was the mindset part, just like how and why we eat. And so I got certified in eating psychology, and it completely changed my perspective on how I approach food and how I don't stress around food anymore because I used to stress about everything. I suffered from what I have. It's not a real technical condition, but I call it eating perfectionism. I wanted to listen to everyone else and do all the right things. But in doing that, I stressed myself out about food and became so confused and didn't always look at everything food could do for me. I was worried a lot about what food can do to me.

So, first of all, I love the eating perfectionism term. And I think we like a lot of this stuff. You just figure out what makes sense around it, make it up. Right? So it makes a ton of sense, and it kind of follows what I see happening out there. And I think it started way back when. I'm going to shout out and say, I think it might have started with Weight Watchers or one of those types of groups where we are counting points and we're totally disconnecting ourselves from how we feel when we eat things. Like, how does this make you feel? Do you feel better eating this, or are you just eating this because you want your points, you know, it's like, doesn't make any sense. So I like this idea of coming back. I'm all about, like, connecting the dots between what you're eating and how you feel and creating, like, great healthy rituals around all of this. So I think it all makes a ton of sense. So again, I think we have to go past, like, if it was as simple as knowing what to eat, first of all, you could go to the bookstore and be completely confused. I always say you get 10 nutrition experts, nutritionists in a room, and they're going to have 10 different opinions, and it could make maybe more, right? And I go, how does the public sort through this? They go to the bookstore and they're like, am I supposed to be a carnivore? Vegan keto? Like, are plants good? They're bad. What the heck do I do? So I think when you can kind of shift away from that and go and look this way, it's super helpful. So you came up with this idea of a food story. What the heck is this?

Okay, I love that you asked that. So what happened is I was started to work with people on their relationship with food, and I'd say, so tell me about your relationship with food. And I would get all these very similar clipped responses like, oh, no, let's not go there. Or that's such a loaded question. It, you know, and people would think about them and food. And it was very static, you know, and so I knew that I had to reframe the question. And that was this was in 2010. So there was a lot of people, a lot of experts even talking about, like, your life story, your money story, your love story. You know, there were so many story was really in our collective conversation. I'm like, well, we have a food story. And so when I started to reframe it and ask people about their food story and start to think about it myself, it made so much more sense. And it helped people release. Release a lot of the shame and blame that they felt around food because they realize there's different characters, there's heroes, there's villains. Diet culture, you know, that there are so many different chapters in their food story. There's themes, and so. And it's always evolving. And so you're never really stuck because it's a story. And this really helped people to see why they do certain things, why they have certain mindsets and beliefs, some limiting around food. And you could trace it back, because your food story doesn't just start where you are right now. If you're having challenges or issues, it goes back. And so this really gave a really nice framework for people to see how they related to food and to realize, you know what? I can, I'm the author of my story, so that's really where it came about. And even people like, you know, you, like, we all have different chapters. Like, I'm sure you can think about a chapter in your food story that you wouldn't want, you wouldn't be living right now, you know, but it worked for you then or it didn't work.

You know, I think, I think back, I, I've, you know, I've been doing this for, gosh, now like 40 years, which is crazy. And I think back to one person who would always say, first of all, I watched him eat. And you can see so much by just watching someone eat. And this was someone who didn't want to share their food. And, and it's like that food was down on the table and he was in it, in it to win it, right? And I'm watching this and anytime he would get hungry, he'd say, I'm starving out of my mind. And I'm like, wow, you know, talk about creating your reality. Starving out of your mind, really? That's a little like stream, but came to pass as we dug into this, that he grew up in a family where, you know, money was tight and so when they put the food on the table, that was the food. There wasn't more coming. And it was like every kid for themselves. And he was the baby, right. And so he like grew up with lack and scarcity and not having enough. And if you didn't get in there fast and gobble it down, you weren't going to have yours. And until he realized that way later, because I watch, I go, what the heck is going on here? You know, wild.

It's amazing how that's also ingrained in us. And you don't, you become sort of, it just becomes like a pattern or a habit that you're not even aware of, right?

Totally.

So what happened when he was able to connect the dots?

Yeah, when he was able to connect the dots, it became a non issue. And so I talk a lot about connecting the dots between what you're eating and how you feel, but it's also connecting the dots between why you're eating, the way you're eating. I'll give you another one that's kind of funny is I had a mom who you had breakfast, lunch and dinner. Well, we had, you know, you go to school to have lunch. I was a super athletic kid, and I'd come home around 5 and dinner was until 7, 7:30, because my dad would come home and they'd have cocktails. And when you're a kid and you ate lunch at noon and then you did a ton of sports and now it's 5:30. Like, you know, when you're a growing kid, this is. This is not okay. Right. And so I had to sneak food. Otherwise I wasn't gonna. I couldn't wait till dinner. So I got used to sneaking food. And that's not a good one either. Like, we don't need to sneak and scarf.

Right.

So, you know, you realize that way later. It's like, why am I sneaking food? I don't need to sneak food in my own kitchen. It's totally cool. But it is, it is interesting to look at. It's like, why are we doing these big, bizarre, weird things that we do? Well, there's always a reason. Right?

Right. And I think that when people realize it and like you said, you connect the dots, it just can help you feel like, oh, so that's why I do what I do instead of having shame about it.

Yeah. And there's so much, first of all, food eating. And early on. Do you know who Jeanine Roth is?

Of course I know who she is. So.

Janine Roth. Yeah. She's amazing. And I went to one of her workshops probably 20, 30 years ago, and it was, you know. Right. I think When Food Is Love was really big then. That was her big book. And I walk in this room and she had pieces of paper, large pieces of butcher paper all over this room. And there were like a couple hundred people in there and they had to write down like all their food shame and body shame on these things. I was like, wow, this is truly something. But there's so much shame around weight, around what you eat, around, you know, trying to be perfect. Especially if you're a woman and you sit down and you don't have the salad and the, you know, sparkling water. You know, it's like, it's crazy.

So, yeah, we. We always think we're being judged. But what, what I want to say about that exercise that Janine Roth had you do, it's so powerful to write it down, even if you're just writing it down for yourself, because when you actually write something down, you're physically releasing it from your body. So you know how like your body keep in your cells, keep all of that inside. But when you can release it then you can also look at it and see it and you know, and then confront it instead of just suppressing it. Yeah.

Such a powerful exercise that are out and in. Right. So with that, what like when you did this for yourself, because I'm assuming that's where it started. What did you find?

Wow. I mean, I have so many different pivotal moments of my food story. But, you know, I understand now why I had such a like, controlling relationship with food. You know, I had thought I had to be rigid and have all the rules and I could tie it back to two events really. I mean, there are so many our food stories so, you know, multidimensional. But it has so much so it's complex. But when I was nine years old, I went to the doctor and the doctor told me I could get my ears pierced if I lost five pounds. And this is also like what watchers count crazy too. And it wasn't like I medically needed to lose weight or anything like that.

The doctor said you could get your ears pierced if you lost five pounds.

Because I had been begging at that point. Do you remember that doctors used to pierce with their.

Well, no, I remember. No, we went to like, you had the gun, but you went to like some jewelry shop in the mall. But why would the doctor say you had to lose five pounds, get your ears pierced?

Did your mom put him up to it or what?

I don't, you know, I'm sure adult conversations, but.

Oh my God.

Yeah, no, it was really bad. But then my dad would sleep, eat at night. And this is going to sound pretty unbelievable and it is really extreme, but he would sleep, eat, be totally like unconscious of his eating, and he'd wake up in the morning and feel terrible. And when he realized what was going on, he started putting a padlock around the refrigerator and we give my mom the key. And so every night it had nothing to do with us, but he'd say, do you want anything before I lock up? And so it was just sent this message. And so sometimes our parents food challenges they impact. Well, not sometimes.

I was gonna say sometimes.

I know. I always want to say that like most parents are. They're doing the best they can with this knowledge.

Exactly. This is not a slam. They didn't know this E. Everyone's trying their. No, no parent says, you know, I'm going to eat a bunch of crap so my kids will eat crappy.

Right. Or like I want to mess up my kids relationship.

Right?

Yeah.

For the rest of their lives. Yeah. So. But. But it's just really interesting how, you know, I didn't put two and two together until later on when I really, you know, went through that eating psychology program and started to, you know, Mark David, I think that I've seen you on some of his. His summits. But. So until I really healed my own relationship with food. But it just, it's amazing how far back we can trace some of our mindsets and habits. And then when we know why, it just, it's like your client you mentioned who was eating, you know, so fast because of the scarcity, you know, then we can say, okay, that's not my story anymore. That, that's not who I am now. And so I could let go of that sort of rigid, controlling behavior around food. But it's kind of crazy.

Well, so here's the big question, though. So let's take my friend who grew up that way. Is it as simple as going, oh, recognizing the situation, or how do you break something that's now so ingrained in you? Like with you thinking you need to eat something because you know the fridge is gonna get locked down or naughty.

Right. Control.

So whichever one. What, like, how do you then, now that you're aware, like, oh, okay, how do you break it?

Yeah, that's a really good question. So an example that a lot of our list, the listeners might be able to relate to is like, did you grow up with the clean the plate club? You know, how so many of us grew up and we're like, oh, you.

Have to eat starving children somewhere, wherever those starving children are.

Yes. In India or China. Yes. We all, like, a lot of us have that. And so I think it's really asking, you know, is this true for me now? And even though it's something so ingrained, my husband still will eat everything on his plate, no matter what, not paying attention to whether he's full or not. Because he just grew up like that. And we'll talk about it, like, but could you put this, like, into a. In the fridge and use it in a salad the next day? And, you know, it takes a while and he feels guilty when he doesn't do that. But I mean, now we're past that. But he felt guilty when he didn't. Wouldn't do that because of the clean your plate club. And so I think really, it's just asking is that my story now is that is like, with the scarcity, if that's not really the issue anymore, then you can, you are in charge of. You're the author of your story. You can Write a new chapter, you know, and it doesn't mean, like, the past shouldn't have happened or it was a negative thing. It's just, it. It just isn't who you are today or your circumstances anymore. And I think really questioning, like, your beliefs around food. So many of us have limiting beliefs, like where they came from, and understanding all that gives us the. Like empowers us to make a change.

Right.

So we all have limiting beliefs. Right. I had a great mentor early on who was like, the only limitations are the limitations in your mind. And I remember thinking, well, of course there are limitations, you know, and it's just one of the biggest challenges is actually seeing them. Right. Because they are just in there. So it's great that you are just shining this light. Now I want to talk food noise, but first we're going to take a little break, and then we're going to come back and talk about this food noise and why it's so harmful. So stay with us. Food noise. What is this? Why is it such a problem?

Okay, this is a good one. So food noise is everywhere. And I want to start out saying that you cannot eliminate it, but you can change the way that you respond to it. So food noise is everything from, like, the messages you're receiving on social media, the message you're getting. Like when you walk into your kitchen and you see, like, the books of the diets that failed, or, you know, or, you know, that creates some sort of noise, but it's just loud. I mean, diet culture is the biggest culprit of food noise. And do you talk a lot about diet culture?

So I have a. I have a philosophy on diet culture. I am not anti diet at all. I'm anti diet the way that they're being used. I believe that we have a big. The problem with diets is that we have two very diverse things with the same word in that we have. I believe diets are tools, just like a scale is a tool. Although I think we should only do body composition. We have to know what our weight's made up of. But I believe that. And, you know, a scale is not a mean, shameful friend. It's a. It's a biometric tool to tell us if we are holding onto and building muscle, which is the key problem that we have right now in our health is that we're not doing that. And then with diets, diets always work. We're just trying to get the wrong information from them. See, if I go on, let's say a vegan diet And I feel crappy. That's fantastic. I just got really important information of this. Didn't work well for me. Or let's say I tried a keto diet and it didn't work. Okay, that's great. That's not something that works well for me. There is bio individuality. I think we need to reframe all of this and say, you know, we have the way we ultimately, and this is a moving target, have what's going to work best for us in terms of when we eat and how much we eat and, you know, why we're eating. And it might shift. Maybe you're dealing with a health issue. Maybe you're, you know, working on some kind of shift, you know, running a marathon or whatever. And so we use a diet therapeutically to learn things about us. Like, virgin diet was not written as a thing you're on forever. It was written as something that you do for three weeks, and then you go and challenge to see which foods work for you and which foods don't so that you can design an eating plan that works for you. That's my reframe on diets.

I like that. I think we're on the same page. But the thing that people have to know, though, is how to be connected to their body and understand the information that they're getting from the diet or whatever lifestyle or food plan or whatever you want to call it. Doesn't matter what you call it, but that's where I think the problem lies. So food noise disconnects you from your body, and you are listening to everyone else's opinion instead of saying, how does this feel to me? There are experts. I listen to you, jj. There are people who know a whole lot. There's a lot of research being done. But like you said, there's bio individuality. So the only way to understand whether those things work for you is to be connected enough to your body and not to accept it as gospel, but to be curious about it. So I want to try this new whatever it is, superfood new plan or. Or intermittent fasting, whatever it is that, like, piques your curiosity, but to know, like, you're trying it and that. And that you're going to test it out and see how it works for you. And if it doesn't work exactly what someone else's roles are, maybe you can figure out how to modify it and make it work for you. Like you said, you have to have some sort of measure. How does it feel like? There's also the external measurements that can give you information. But it always comes back to, how does this feel to me in my mind?

Well, how do you feel like, how's your energy? How's your focus? Headaches, gas, bloating, all that. However, it's interesting. Like, I was just listening to a podcast today, Peter Attia. I'm kind of obsessed with him. And he was talking to another guy about the Carnivore diet and talking about how Paul Saladino's LDL cholesterol shot up to over 500 on it, and he had a lot more small, dense particles. And I was like, oh, you know. And so you look at that and go, it's also like, hey, you might feel great on a diet. And then you look at your blood markers, and now you've got insulin resistance or whatever. So we have to also check in with. And that's why I have an issue with intuitive eating works when you've done a reset so you can truly hear. Because if you can't truly hear, we've got a food industry that has created obesogenic food to make us crave it, right? And so it's one thing if you're intuitively eating and getting into, you know, vegetables and clean protein and healthy fats, it's a whole nother thing. If you're eating processed foods, dirty processed foods, you know, ultra processed foods, because they're built to make you crave them. And you'll think, oh, wait, you know, and you're not. So that's. That's where I think we have to make those distinctions. And it all does come down to that connecting the dots and realizing, like, you know, all my friends are diet book authors, right? Well, and what I see in common is that people write the book for them, right? So they write the book that worked really well for them. And there's probably pieces of that that will work for you. But, you know, the chance that one thing is going to be the all, end all, be all for everyone is zero. It's never, you know, so.

And to add on to that, it also may work for you in a certain season. You know, when I say season, season of your life. And that's the whole thing about a food story, is that it may work for you. When you're really active, something might work for you, but then you have a different time period where you're doing more gentle movement and you're not as active. And so you would have a different balance of macronutrients that could work for you. Or you have a health issue that popped up. And so you always want to just be connected enough to yourself, getting, you know, the, like you said, checking on your blood levels and all of that. But it really, it goes back to that question you said in the person. How does this make me feel? And how do I want to feel, too?

Right. And that's. And diets are tools. Diets are tools. Like, you know, it's just like any other tool that we would have. It's a tool, not an absolute. So I. We are totally on the same page with that. And I just think it's important in the intuitive eating world because I. I get afraid of intuitive eating meets, you know, big food companies.

Well, it also feels bad where people will show like, you know, a bunch of, like, like a bunch of junk food and say, well, I'm eating intuitively and feeling really, really proud of it. I think, like, it's important to be proud of letting go of rules that are making you miserable and you can't socialize and that are affecting your mental health. But at the end of the day, you want to feel good in your body. And whole real foods are going to make you better than any processed food.

Right.

And also I interviewed Michael Moore, who wrote that whole book on what actually the process food industry. Right.

How addictive it is.

Yeah. And it is addictive.

Right. It's set up to be that way. So you can't use, I call them dirty processed foods in the industry. They're called ultra processed foods. You can't use those as intuitive eating tools because they are set up to make you a food addict. They're set up like, I was just listening to something interesting about the Hadza tribes. And, you know, they take like a gazelle and throw it on the charcoal and then cut off the charred parts and eat that. They're not going to be like, no one's going to pig out on that. Like, it's like, no one. When I did the Freaky Eaters show, we didn't get one person that said, I'm addicted to salmon. Never happened. Right. So really look at how do I just incorporate more whole foods? Because we'd be doing you a disservice to not say that with now 5% of the population being metabolically healthy and the, you know, that change starts at the end of your fork. So.

And then the other thing with, with whole foods, there are foods that, you know, some whole foods that, like your grandmother's lasagna, like, it might be made with whole foods, but you know that you're. That it's going to Nourish you in a different way. And you can make a choice to have it, you know, at a special occas or whatever, because nourishes your soul, you know, but that's not what you're eating day in and day out. And I, I hope that people don't feel guilty about, you know, choosing to eat something that's like, you know, part of their culture or even if it's not like as clean, you know, as the food that you would choose.

Well, it's also, I think, I think you go for an A minus on your diet. Now, if you're, if you're going through something, if you are going through a health concern. This is not what I'm talking about. But once you've gotten to that stable place, like we just went off to Italy, we had this opportunity to go to Andrea Bocelli's private theater for his once a year opera thing he does. And we're like, oh, yes, we're going. But some of the dinners we went to were pasta. And that was it. Like, that was all pasta and cheese. And I'm like, oh boy. And it's always interesting Italy because none of the food hurts me like it does in the US because they do to the food there. But you also go, that's a whole nother, that's like a whole series. But you also look at and go, I'm not an A, you know, I'm in Italy, I'm in Tuscany, I'm at Andrea Bocelli's farmhouse and this is what I'm having. That's it. You know, so that's the important thing, people, when, when I start talking about like, let's go through the virgin diet, let's pull these foods out, see how you feel. They're like, but what about my birthday? I go, you know, it's not your once a year birthday. That's the challenge here. Right? Like, right. That's not the problem. The problem is, is the 364 other days. So, you know, this is. Go ahead.

I was going to say that on your birthday, that if you choose to have the thing, the cake, the whatever, enjoy it. Because the guilt does so much harm to your. I mean, you know, when you stress yourself out and you create a whole stress response in your system and then you don't even enjoy it. So if you make that decision to have it, enjoy it.

How about it? And you know, you brought up stress and it is such a key thing. Like you look at the blue zones and what really is going on in the blue zones. Because I know there's all this talk about diet, et cetera. And one thing, one thing it sounds like is lots of olive oil and. But when you really look at it and just coming back from Italy and being around this where dinners were three hours and you sat down for lunch and it's like, you know, I, we, we tend to, when we go on vacation, eat brunch and then we eat dinner. And so at 2 o' clock we're out like walking all over the place and every, everything is shut down and everyone's sitting down for a two hour lunch. It's like such a different culture. And then you go to dinner and it's the three hour dinner. And they're not stressed out trying to eat in the car. You don't see people unless they're tourists walking down the street eating. They take time for it. So what happens when people are stressed and stressed and trying to eat fast and do all that? What does it do to us?

Yeah, that's a good question. And that. So you create a stress response. And I want to also add a caveat to that because it's not just like the stress that we have in our daily lives because there's no way to avoid it. It's also the undue self imposed stress that we put on ourselves about becoming that a eater or whether we're following the rules or doing the right thing or eating too many carbs. And even if whatever you're thinking, will this bloat me and all those stressful thoughts, whether they're true or not, you can create a stress response in your system. And so I'm sure you've talk, talked about it here on this podcast, but you probably can't hear it too much. It's just what happens is you create that whole cascade of hormones when you release cortisol and then your metabolism isn't working as efficiently, you don't digest as well, and you aren't assimilating all the nutrients. In addition to not having pleasure from your meal, which I think is a huge part of that relaxation, is when you're actually enjoying yourself like they do in Italy, as you discuss. So if like one of my goals when I work with people is to have people understand that the opposite is true, how you want to feel relaxed before you sit down to your meal because then you will get the full nutritional benefits of it, you know, and when you're in that, not in the fight or flight or not in that stress response, your body can rest and digest.

You know, you see it. I'm always reminded when I go outside the United States, or even if you're in the United States, but eating in more of traditional culture areas that you can get to. I always like it when I'm the only person who's not of whatever. If I'm going to eat like Indian food or Thai food or Chinese food, and I'm the only person who's not Indian or Thai or Chinese, I'm like, I'm in the right place. And you always see such different food because of what they've done, because food is medicine for them. But one other thing that I. Yeah, you see, there is families eating together and another thing that you can do. And, you know, I was reminded of. I never remember to do this yet, but we were on our trip and our group did it was to sit down and they did a gratitude. You could call it saying grace, a prayer gratitude. But that can shift that stress down, too. And again, you're not going to digest well if you're stressed, you're going to have lower stomach acid. It's going to be a problem.

Yes.

And then the other really easy way to shift your body into more of a relaxed state is to just take three deep breaths wherever you are. If you're in the car, which isn't an ideal place to eat, but if you're just sitting at the table, even if you're with other people, you just take three deep breaths and it instantly kind of brings you back to your body and helps all those stress chemicals dissipate, too. So it's amazing how that. How it does that. Can I just say one thing? You were talking about how we eat and, you know, like you were saying, we. We hardly ever just sit at the table. And I've been saying this a lot, but we as a culture, we tend to eat. And, you know, we eat and drive, we eat and scroll through social media. We eat and watch the news. We eat and, you know, catch up and whatever it is where eat and. And like, if people could just put that stuff away, even just to have like your shake, you know, for five or 10 minutes, it makes such a difference when you are present at the table and you just eat, there's no.

And so that's a good one. Eat. And so what happens? And I think back to this, you know, used to be when I would go home in college, I would slip right back into all old crappy patterns I had. And it took a while to really break that, to be able to go home and not do that. So what do you say to someone who's like, all right, I've totally nailed this, but then I go back into that situation where it started, and I slip right back in. How do you have them not have that continue to happen?

Yeah, that's a really good question, because we saw that a lot over the last few years. I think with people being stressed, they would say, slip back into old ways. And, you know, everything's a teacher, right? So, I mean, you just have to, like, why? Why am I doing this right now? And start, like, instead of not judging yourself, but being curious about your behaviors, why am I doing it? Does this work for me anymore? Does this work for me now? And how do I even feel? And most of the time, you're probably beating yourself up and you feel crappy and you're upset with yourself for doing something that, you know isn't serving you. And so it's really about, you know, just being an observer and asking yourself, what? Why am I doing this? Because usually there is a why. And, like, how. How do I really want to feel? Instead of how do I feel? Also, how do I want to feel? And being really proactive because, you know, what makes you feel better? I'm sure when you go home and do the things that from however many years ago, how do I want to feel and what can I do to make myself feel that way? You know, And I always find out little things like taking a walk, you know, and can help you clear your head and not stay in that, you know, and give you a fresh perspective.

Taking a walk is just an easy solution for a whole lot of things.

Yeah.

Sending them an email, making the phone call, just go out and take a walk.

Right. But just break that whole, like, because otherwise you stay stuck, you're ruminating, and just, like, get outside, go for a walk, you know, and, like, that shifts everything, but. And empower yourself to like you. You can decide how you want to feel and what is going to help you feel that way. And it's probably not what. Whatever you just did.

So speaking of that, you have a food mood pantry list that we're going to put@jburgin.com foodstory and tell us about that. What are they going to get?

Okay, that. That is really also about. I mentioned this earlier. A lot of times we think about what food is going to do to us, you know, and that oftentimes brings a negative, like, is it going to make me bloated? Am I going to, you know, gain weight? Whatever it is, you know, we worry about that. And so when you. When you think about how food affects your mood, you're thinking about everything it can do for you. So it's really just giving people a new mindset around food. And I have seven different moods, and I picked some of the really easy, very accessible food to put on the list. And so the pantry list will help you stock your pantry with foods that have nutrients and that can support your. Your gut health. And to help boost your mood. There's calm. There's calm. Happy. Oh, my God. Essential, strong, which is really like more immune. Boosting food. And oh, my gosh, I'm forgetting, like, there's seven.

That's okay.

They'll.

They'll go to it and get it. And I love. I always love anything shopping list. Like, we all love that. And it's always fun to see what someone else has put on the list because, you know, you just forget things. So we get in food ruts, right? That's a whole nother, whole nother podcast. So I love that you did that. And again, it's JJVirgin.com FoodStory to get. Get the list, and then you can stock up based on the moods that you want to elicit and feel. That's very cool.

How fun.

Yeah. Yeah. So that it's really easy and. And it's accessible, too. So I hope that everyone enjoys the pantry list.

Perfect. Thank you. And I've enjoyed having you here, so thank you so much for your time.

Thank you so much for having me and for all the work that you do and love this conversation. Conversation and all your stories, too.

All right. Thank you for tuning into another interesting episode. I was super excited about this one because I had, like, really no clue what we were going to get into here. I knew it was going to be talking about more kind of food and why we do what we do. And I think that it's really interesting to start to take. Take a look at some of these things so that if you are doing something that you wish you weren't doing, now you know how to break that cycle. And again, I want to remind you to grab her food pantry list that helps you buy foods based on the mood you want to elicit. And that is@jjvirgin.com foodstory if you have not yet subscribed to the podcast. Come on. We have so much fun stuff going on, and you never want to miss an episode. So be sure to subscribe to JJ.com it is that simple. Just go to subscribetojay.com See you next episode.