Smarter Sex Starts Now, with Emily Morse

Most of what we've learned about sex is simply not true. La nuit. Most women don't have an orgasm during sex. Only 20% have orgasms from penetration. Stress, trauma, and shame are 3 of the things that prevent our desire. I've been married for 25 years, and I've been faking orgasms the whole time. I can't tell you how often I hear that from women.

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There's been so much censorship over sex over the years. Sexual health Sexual health was like the stepchild of the wellness industry. Sex is wellness. The longer we go without having sex, kind of like going to the gym, you know how hard it is when you get out of the gym and then you gotta go back? The same thing happens for sex. I mean, honestly, we have to keep our own pilot light lit. How many times a week should we be having sex?

Right, what is the number?

What is the magic number?

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Welcome to Well Beyond 40, and we are going to dig in today everything sex after 40, which I'm super excited about.

Me too.

And I'm also going to get over my whole weirdness about saying vagina and all sorts of other sex.

Okay. A lot of people are not comfortable saying the word vagina. And in fact, when I started this podcast, Sex with Emily, 20 years ago, you couldn't say vagina on television. You couldn't say vagina.

You would say—

you would say female genitalia. I don't know. There's been so much censorship over sex over the years, and even policing of women's bodies or men's bodies, all of us. Like, sex has just been sort of shrouded in mystery and shame.

How did you get interested in all this? I mean, we all got interested in it, but you took it a step farther.

No, we all were down to have sex. It was 20 years ago. I was in my 30s and I was having sex, but I realized that sex just became really disappointing after a while. First, my partner was always having an orgasm and I was not. When I was with somebody for a while, I realized that I no longer wanted sex as often. It wasn't as hot as it was in the beginning, so I thought that was a problem. And also, I just realized I didn't have any information about what made great sex. And then I found myself comparing to others and my friends were like, "I was having orgasms all the time," or, "We have hot sex." And I thought everyone's doing it better than me. What don't I know? So I went on a mission to understand human sexuality and sexual health, and I couldn't find anything. No one was talking about it. It was Dr. Ruth, you know, may she rest in peace, but that was about it. And so I started a podcast in my living room, believe it or not, 20 years ago, interviewing people, everyone I knew, about their sex lives and their relationships.

And they were all gung-ho to do that.

Yeah, they really were. Well, there's something about the mic that gives you more anonymity, so I told people they could change their names. They could change their age. But what I found is, yes, people were really open to talking about sex. And then I realized this is my life's purpose and my mission. It was like my second career. I went back to grad school, I got a doctorate in human sexuality, and I just made it my life mission to make sure that other people had less shame, more pleasure, and make sex less taboo.

So when was the first time you kind of realized we've been like talking about this all wrong?

I would say it was pretty early on I realized that most of what we've learned about sex is simply not true. Everything from men want sex all the time and women are frigid, to women should have orgasms every time they have sex. Most women don't have an orgasm during sex. Only 20% have orgasms from penetration.

And is that just because they won the—

they won the lottery? They won the genetic lottery. In fact, they won the lottery where their clitoris is closer to their vaginal opening, and so it means they're more likely to have an orgasm that way. But most women are gonna orgasm from a penis or mouth or toys, fingers, but really not from penetration. So I think that was a big one. Also, God, centering sex on penetration, saying that that is sex when really so much of sex is the foreplay part, could actually be the main part. I learned pretty early on that that's why I became so obsessed with it, 'cause I was like, this is ridiculous that everything, you know, that we think about, and the fact that there was so much shame around it, that like, why are we so uncomfortable about this thing? Like, about our bodies? Like, this is how we have life. Like, life comes from like the women, like everything. Vaginas, but yet we don't know anything about our own bodies. And men— half my audience is men too. Like, I felt like everyone's looking for the answer.

So yeah. What about the desire part of it? Anything that you've had as an experience that shifted the way you thought about that?

Yeah, a lot. When I said the first myth was about men want sex all the time and women are more frigid, the truth is we just have to understand our desire. And so what I learned is there's two kinds of desires. There's spontaneous desire and responsive desire. And spontaneous desire is the one that we all covet. It's the honeymoon phase of the relationship where we have sex 3 times a day, we're ripping each other's clothes off, you're throwing me against the refrigerator. It's like amazing sex and you have desire all the time. You know, and some people have that. I would say that many men, I don't even like to say gender anymore, but like a lot more often men, like, you know, when they're aroused, like they walk in the room, like my boyfriend would be like, let me guess, you're turned on, right? We can tell. But, and I'm like, I'm not, I feel bad about that. So, but most, many of us have responsive desire, which means that we are responding responding to something happening in our environment or something that happens to us, a certain touch, words, a certain environment, and then we will get aroused. Understanding our desire style, like what we actually require, meaning I talk about this thing called sexual intelligence, which is a paradigm I created for people understanding themselves as sexual beings. But like, it's so multilayered. It could be a certain time of month. It could be like, I haven't really connected to my partner well, so I'm feeling a lot of resentment right now. The last thing I want to do is have sex with them. One of the biggest killers of our sex drive is stress. So if I'm stressed—

I just went through this huge period. That's why I'm looking at him, because I just went through the worst period of stress that I literally said, really, I'm feeling like I might even be a little manic. He goes, oh no, you are.

Yeah. So listen, when we have a spike in cortisol, our arousal goes down, so they can't actually live in the same place. So just even just stress—

can they for men, or is that just— is that just women?

For men too, they can still probably get aroused. It's not that you can't get aroused, but it's not going to be your best sex, and you're certainly not going to have a desire. I think men have an easier time having sex with stress than women do. Like, for sure, if we're stressed, it's really, really hard to be like, I'm fully present and I'm here for the sex, when we have so many open tabs in our brain. So I think that that's a big part of it. I call it the pleasure thieves. Stress, trauma, and shame are three of the things that, that really prevent our desire.

Any other myths around intimacy that maybe you once believed that now you just think are ridiculous?

There's so many. Oh, that sex toys are only for women. Our bodies are covered in nerve endings and can feel wonderful when vibrated. Vibration is healing. So I think that's one of it, that, that lube— you only bring in lube when there's a problem. That's another myth. Women have better sex when you add lube. Everyone has better sex when you add a little bit of lube. Kinsey Institute did a study that said that women are 80% more likely to orgasm when you bring in just a few drops of lube to any sexual situation.

Do you have a favorite lube?

Oh my God, I have so many. I really like Playground, is a lube that's made by women for women. That's a great one. It's water-based and it's sort of like a facial for your vagina. It's like uses Ashwagandha, black cohosh, and vitamin E. I also like Uber Lube because it is slippery and it's silicone. It has one ingredient and it lasts longer.

You know, it's interesting. I heard you say, I want to have lube on every nightstand.

That is my— amen. Yeah, no, that is my dream. Like, lube on every— like, literally makes sex so much better all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. So why do you think it is, because this is well beyond 40, that— and I literally have some friends in their 50s and 60s and they never have sex anymore. They just, it's just not a thing. I'm like, yeah, but for a woman in a relationship, why do you feel like this gets deprioritized?

Yeah, I think because, oh, there's so many reasons. Well, first we can just talk about our health. We can talk about hormones. If we haven't gotten on HRT and we haven't had hormone replacement, that can be a game changer for so many women. You add some progesterone, some estrogen, you know, with our loss of estrogen, we're losing so much, like beyond like our bone strength and we lose elasticity. It could become drier. We can have more pain. Like our bodies are just changing. We are tired. Maybe we're more tired than other times. When we get older, it's that. But also, here's what I've also figured out. People love talking about menopause right now and how we don't have a sex drive and it went out the window. But what I've also found is that I go back to women in their 30s and then after they, they have children.

Oh yeah. That's, that's the worst time.

That's, that is the worst time. But it can also, for some women, they never really recover from that. The hormones were changed and they have small babies around the house and they're like, the last thing I want is sex right now.

The least romantic thing ever is little babies.

Yeah. But you know what? Exactly.

Right?

You're like, yeah, there's a baby cry. Can the baby hear us? Is the baby awake? But even when you've got like leaky boobs, I mean, the whole thing is— So I don't want that. So that's one thing. And then also I think that for a lot of women, sex was never that great. A lot of women have sex that's very performative. If they're with a man, it's for their male partners. It's really not even about their pleasure. And so the longer we go without having sex, kind of like going to the gym, you know how hard it is when you get out of the gym and then you gotta go back? No. And you're starting from zero, right? But you know, these people, they're listening. The same thing happens for sex. I mean, honestly, we have to keep our own pilot light lit. And what I mean by that is even if you're not in a relationship, or even if you are in a relationship, solo sex, aka masturbation, keep giving ourselves orgasms, remembering that we're sexual beings, keeping our arousal going. And then also It's multi-layered. Eating foods that make us feel good, moving our bodies. It's all about blood flow circulation. So then, you know, we have less blood flow. So maybe we're getting fewer erections. We're not having as many orgasms. We might also have some, you know, body shame. We might not feel great in our bodies because our body changed. It doesn't look like it once was. There's a lot of factors.

And the body shame thing, I think this is an important one because women get body shamed. And as far as I can tell, men could care less. Yes. Right? Don't you think? Well, you know how we are like, well, I'm a little bloated today. Yeah. You know, or I think my, my butt looks a little big. Guys don't care.

They, they don't care.

It's like, just take your clothes off.

I mean, this is even young women. You hear all ages like, oh, my left boob's bigger than my right boob. I have this weird freckle.

It's like, you've got boobs.

You've got boobs. Like they're really happy to be having sex with you right now and that you are naked in the room. Like a majority of men are not at all worried about what we worry about, what we tear ourselves up about.

Well, let's face it. When we're getting dressed, it's usually getting dressed for other women.

Yeah. Like the most terrifying thing is to go to a women's luncheon. It's so true. Yeah. The right bag, the right shoes, the right thing.

Oh my gosh. Versus like if you went to a nightclub that was all men.

Yeah. We know what to do there.

Does not matter. Yes. Short, tight, easy, done. Right. Well, in terms of the desire, because you mentioned desire is not spontaneous in most cases, and I'm assuming much more for women. So what do we need to do to shift that piece of it?

So a really important part of it is to say, is to prioritize your sex life just like you would your exercise, your health plan, your nutrition. Sex is wellness. And when we put sex on the back burner, or, you know, for so long sexual health was like the stepchild of the wellness industry. It was not even under the umbrella. I mean, last year, even at Eudaimonia, they had one sex doctor here, one person talking about sex. That's it. I mean, this year there's been a few sessions. If I'm not feeling sexually well and healthy, it means that I'm not prioritizing my pleasure. I'm not taking time for sex and making things that feel good. I'm not paying attention to my hormones and my nutrition. I'm not, you know, exercising. Maybe I have resentments with my partner that I haven't brought up. That's also going to impact our relationships.

But more for the woman than— I know we're not supposed to do the woman-man thing, but I would assume that I could do it for you. Yeah, women Like, if you're a little resentful, you don't feel like having sex. Yeah, but it doesn't feel like the opposite is necessarily—

so I have these pillars of sexual intelligence called Sex IQ. And when I was writing my book 2 years ago called Smart Sex: How to Own Your Pleasure and Boost Your Sex IQ, I realized that after all these years, when it started with my career, people were saying, what's the quick fix? Tell me the toy, what's the lube, what's the sex position? I need help with my sex life. I don't have desire. I've mismatched libidos with my partner. I don't have a sex drive. And they're like, gimme the quick fix. Like they're going to a dentist or something and they want out, like fix my tooth. But when I realized, guys, what came to me was like, it is sexual intelligence. 5 women can call me with low desire, can, can reach out to me or work with me, but there's gonna be different ways to work with them. Just like if someone comes to you and they're like, you got, you gotta look at different layers of it. Yeah. Right. So I start with, with the first one, which is embodiment. Are you in your body during sex? Are you feeling it? Are you looking into each other's eyes? Are you breathing together? Are you in it? Are you feeling it? Or are you like disassociated thinking about the laundry, the kids, like your body or whatever? That's the first important part. So working on being mindful, being present. A really helpful thing to do is to focus on your breath. When you find your mind wandering, which it will during sex, to say, "I'm gonna take a deep breath and go back to what I'm feeling. Okay, my partner's hands are on my body. That feels really good." Just like meditation, you keep coming back to it. The second pillar is health, which we've covered, and that's your mental health and your physical health. So hormones, circulation, nutrition, also mental health. First off, if you've had any traumas or you've had things, you know, always get therapy, work on it. But another factor of health is a lot of people don't realize the side effects of medications they've been taking for many, many years. How many people, like 1 in 3 people are on SSRIs? You might have fact-checked that, but SSRIs are notorious for side effects. The birth control pill, blood thinners. So checking your medications. The third pillar is collaboration, and that's how well do I actually communicate to my partner about our sex life? How it usually looks is something like this: we never have sex. When was the last time we had sex? How come you don't want sex? Why don't you go down on me? It's not, hey, what can we do together that would be interesting in our sex life? Should we take a trip? That's always fun. Maybe we should go buy a lube or buy a sex toy, or like, what would make it hot for you? Because I think if we really think about it, And we really learn, like, the next pillar is self-knowledge. So it's like, well, what do I act— if I wanna be turned on, so this is part of desire, what do I know? Okay. I know that I can't really be stressed. So I used to be the girlfriend who was like running a business, being a boss, being in my, you know, masculine all day. And then I'd be like, oh, date night. I'd be like putting on my sexy clothes in the car, putting on my lipstick, getting to my boyfriend's house and still having this stress. I'm like, I don't feel sexy and turned on. So then knowing, well, that can't happen anymore. I need a bath. I need to work out. I need to meditate. I'm not gonna go right into forcing myself. To be in sexy mode if I haven't taken care of myself. So self-knowledge is just like also knowing, like I was dating a guy, every time I went to his house, it's just a simple example, it was freezing. It was like really cold. He lived by the beach. And the second I went there, my body would shut down. I was like, no, you got, it's gotta be warm in here for me to want. Next time I went there, the fireplace was on, the heat was on, he had blankets out. For me, foreplay's a requirement. It's really, really a rare time where I'm just ready to hop into sex. I like, you know, I wanna make out sometimes, kiss my neck, give me a massage. Like my boyfriend knows, like massage my back for 10 minutes and I'm yours, or my feet, like I will, my body will soften. So again, that's part of self-knowledge. So I hear women like, I'm exhausted, I'm exhausted, I never want sex tonight. Don't have sex at night. Like I would tell, I would say, I will not have, if I'm already in bed and like the light's off or something, it's never happening after 10 o'clock on a Monday night, just know. So maybe it's Saturday mornings. We get to decide when we want to have sex. Like we're in charge of our arousal and our desires. So I don't think we ever permissioned it because it was so mysterious. Serious. So it's really getting deep on like, what's worked for me in the past, what works for me now, and like communicating that with your partner. And then the last one is self-acceptance. And that's really like, do I accept my body as it is now? Do I accept myself?

That's probably the hardest one, right?

That is probably one of the hardest ones. It's just like really just like kind of flipping the script and knowing that my, you know, if we feel like I don't like my body, well, I have some exercise called flipping the script. My body is strong and beautiful and deserving of pleasure. Like, you know, just, just flipping it and like having notes in your phone, mantras, things that make you feel better. Because, you know, we all know like working out helps and moving our bodies, but some of this stuff has been going on for decades and you just have— oh, if we're walking around all day and we are beating our bodies up, we're going like, I hate my thighs, they're rubbing together, I don't like my boobs, you know. And then we think that we should just automatically be ready for sex when we have really been like just criticizing ourselves. So it's— that's a huge part of it. Why would we want to be naked with somebody when we don't even want to be with ourselves? There's no quick fix for it, but it's understanding. And I don't say this all day, be like, oh great, now I got all this other homework. It's more like, so we can become our own sex experts. We could be like, well, what's actually going on with me now? And we can kind of start to work on these areas so we can become more sexually aware and know that we're deserving of pleasure.

There are big health benefits to sex. Yes. And what's funny is I used to do this in the lectures. If I was ever in a lecture situation with a bunch of men, I would always say this one because they'd all write it down and say they were going to go tell their wife, could I write them a prescription? But it was the— I think I got it from Daniel Amen. It was the sex 3 times a week, lowering your cardiovascular risk or good for your brain or something like that. But what are the health benefits of it? And the other thing that keeps coming up, because you brought the pilot light up, It's like, okay, what are the health benefits? And is there like exercise, a frequency dose type of thing?

Yeah. Well, I think the health benefits of sex is really intimacy connection. We get that oxytocin rush from an orgasm. You get like serotonin and dopamine. So there's, there's all of that that really fuels us. And again, there's just touch, like the science of, of touch. There's something called skin hunger. When we don't have enough touch, we can really start to have signs of depression and anxiety. And just having an orgasm like boosts our immune system. It helps with our mood. Say they can help, helps with your skin. We just feel better after we, you know, have an orgasm. As far as connection, intimacy, like otherwise, if you're not having sex with your partner, like you're basically roommates, which I hear all the time, like, oh, we're best friends and we've been together a long time. But when I really look at it, if both people are happy with that in the relationship, I'm not going to say tell them you have to start having sex. They're fine. But usually there's one person who's like not fine with it.

As far as if they were doing that, wouldn't they want to go somewhere to have sex? Like if they're not having sex with each other, something's got to give.

Something's got to give. Someone's going to want to have sex. You know, and there are some people who are just like, no, we don't want sex anymore. And if they're doing— and you're living a healthy life, not having sex isn't going to kill you. However, there are, yeah, many, many benefits to it like we just discussed. But also, you asked about prescription. So it's funny because another thing that, that comes up a lot is couples want to know how many times a week should we be having sex? What is the magic number? I don't like being prescriptive like that. However, once a week seems to be on average what feels good for couples. Once every 6 months, probably not. Once every 3 months, usually not so great. So doing something that is connective and intimate is redefining sex and not centering it on penetration. Maybe it's mutual masturbation one night. You're both lying in bed together. I get off, you get off. We know how to do it. It's great. Maybe it's a sensual massage or erotic touch, which just might lead to sex. Maybe it's just oral sex. So again, if penetration isn't the thing that's really working for you or feeling is great, sometimes we just need to define what it means in every relationship and everyone gets to do that.

The difference between sex with a partner versus someone who's on their own and they're trying to keep their pilot light lit, as you talked about.

Uh-huh.

However, it's the oxytocin difference, right? Yeah. Because they wouldn't get the oxytocin release if they were just by themselves.

That's true. They're not having oxytocin with, if they're just by themselves. But I would also say for those people, like, get massages, like, get frequent massages, get touch, do things where you can connect with people. Maybe it's like dancing or being around people. Even having pets can help with oxytocin. What are the things that make you feel turned on, alive, and sexy? Like, for me, I love dancing. I love moving my body. I love putting on oils that make me feel good, that are for me, like, not saving them for date night, but like my best body oil or my best lotions and like, Wearing fabrics that make me feel good, wearing things that make me feel sexy when I go out. So it's about just feeling into my sensuality, my sexuality as a woman is a, is a practice.

What do you think is the most confronting truth about intimacy that most people avoid?

There's a few that come to mind. Maybe one that I haven't mentioned is that sex is all about orgasm. You know, I think everyone's talking about this sex recession right now. We're in a sex crisis. I don't know if you see the headlines. They keep saying people aren't having a lot of sex. I believe that we are in a crisis of connection and communication. So I think a lot of times couples are like, we don't have enough sex, we need sex, but really they're craving intimacy. They're craving those deeper conversations. They were craving shared experience, like the novelty of doing something new together. And I think for couples who are like, ah, we've just grown apart, can they find things that they love doing together again? Can they bring back things they were doing in the beginning? You know, this stuff does take work. It's so easy to build resentments and to criticize our partner and to get to these places of like, I don't want him to touch me. But if it's, if both people in the relationship really wanna prioritize it, like we can create a spark, we can create that. So I think just knowing it's like, has to be like having intentional conscious connection.

Well, and I'm also hearing that there's an intimacy piece and if you were disconnected, just focusing on the intimacy, not even worrying about the sex.

Yeah. There's some couples who have found that their sex life, like sex has just gotten really boring, or they're not— are there a lot of pressure, I tell them, take, take sex off the table. Take sex off the table. And I, by, by, by that, I do mean penetration off the table for like a month and start kissing again. Start making out, start giving each other like, you know, massages, start doing everything but like you did when you were dating. Start to build up that connection and arousal again. And a lot of couples find that that does it as well. Like just, it's cuz it's new and it's novel. Yeah. And you're like rewriting the script and it's like you're dating again.

Like, why do you have that though?— the first, what is it, month, 3 months where it's just insanity. Yeah. And then it just kind of shifts into the next phase.

First off, we call that the honeymoon phase or NRE, new relationship energy. And during that time, we are sipping on the cocktail of the most delicious hormone cocktail of oxytocin, serotonin, dopamine, where we just feel like everything is amazing. This person is our everything. And it serves also a biological purpose for mating, for choosing our mates. I mean, that's actually why, like, this is our person. Like, most people aren't together unless they didn't— they don't have that early stage. But like anything, any great drug or anything in life, what comes up must come down. It's always gonna come down. And this is the problem I see is that a lot of couples are chasing that high from the first 6 months to 2 years. That's on average how long the honeymoon phase lasts. And they're like, well, it was really great in the beginning. And I almost wanna be like, RIP for a moment. Like, we are not going back to that time. We just won't. But you can create something that's even more connected, that's even more meaningful and even sensual and erotic than ever before. Like, it takes some, like, the stuff that I'm talking about, but that actually just like serves a purpose in time. But I think when we're craving this past thing, but that, that's actually why, why it happens. And every couple's gonna go through it. Maybe couples who are like been long distance for 20 years and we only spend a week together, or we spend a lot of time apart.

They just took the 2 years and extended it out to 3 years.

Exactly. So couple— I found that couples who have some kind of distance, or they don't live together, I mean, which is very rare, they, they're like, oh no, it's still really hot. But I would say most couples have, yeah, suffered this sort of loss of early life. But then the reason why this is so important to talk about, and I'm so glad you're asking it, is because think about it, like in nutrition, if all of a sudden you were working out, you stopped working out, and then you felt like, I lost all my muscles, I got— I gained a lot of weight, like you would know exactly what to do. But with sex, since people haven't talked about it, we don't spend a lot of money on sexual health research, especially for women. It's always kind of been this mystery. So I really try to break it down for people so they can kind of troubleshoot and be like, okay, well, what is actually going on? Because we're all so different.

In terms of troubleshooting, like a woman after 40, What do you think a big misconception a woman would have about her own pleasure after 40?

I think that women after 40 might think that there's an expiration date. I'm no longer sexy, so therefore I don't feel desirable. You know, my best days are over. My 20s were such a hot, fun time. There's no partners for me. There's no sex for me. If they're not on, you know, taking bioidentical hormones or even using like hyaluronic acid suppositories.

Vaginal estrogen is like the greatest thing ever.

Vaginal estrogen is the greatest thing ever. And what I love is that even the research has shown shown that even women who might have risks, who might have shown that they have risk of cancer or something else, taking vaginal estrogen is a safe option for the majority of women. And it is a game changer, like game changer. Like it'll change because what happens is you're starting to have dryness, you're having like, you know, loss of tissue, you are having just so many things. So it just helps plump everything up. You feel better, you know, and women also don't realize that they can be in perimenopause for 10 to 12 years. You know, I just did a great interview with Halle Berry on my podcast today on Sex with Emily. We were talking about how she went to a doctor and she had pain after sex, like the craziest thing that ever happened, where she never— it felt like she was like having prickles, like she was having this like inner vagina, this rough spot. She went to the doctor, he thought she had herpes. He like misdiagnosed her.

She told it on, uh, yeah, Tamsen's.

Yes, she misdiagnosed her. So what I'm saying is like No, it was just dry. She took vaginal estrogen. She got— so I'm just saying, like, it starts— it can start young, and some women are, like, going through it really.

Yeah, well, and it could be— I mean, those are the symptoms that would be tied to sex, but it could be— mine was, like, a little bit of bleeding gums.

Yeah, yeah.

And I went to the dentist, I'm like, what's going on? He's like, estrogen. I go, what? So I was— I've been on hormone replacement therapy from that point. Like, it was literally probably—

how old? What age? What age?

Uh, mid-40s.

Yeah, yeah, same.

I started my mid-40s from working out. And I think that's the big thing, because there's still this myth out there that you have to wait till you're in menopause. I'm like, why? You do not have to wait a moment of suffering.

No, you, you can start estrogen now. It's safe for, safe for everybody. So definitely, like, talk to your doctors who, who actually know things about hormones though, not the ones that don't.

If I could have skipped over my 20s and 30s, probably even my 40s, and just jumped to 50s, especially since I found him in my 50s, I found my love of my life. I love that things are so much better. So I believe that your life, your health, your sex life, everything can be better.

Yeah.

At 40+.

Yes.

It feels like this is not a problem.

Absolutely. I'm glad you— I was just thinking about what could go wrong. I'm with you. I know that sex can get better in your forties and fifties and sixties and beyond. In fact, it usually does. So this notion that your sex life is over, I don't think it's just beginning because we didn't have the information. Maybe we have more confidence now to ask for what we want. We like really don't care what anyone else thinks. There is not any bone in my body that wants to do performative anything. I am not just doing performative sex. I'm not doing my partner if I don't want him. I just want you to like go down on me, give me a massage. I'm going to ask for it. And I don't know that I could have done that in my 20s or even in my early 30s.

I couldn't even ask someone to take me to the place I wanted to go for dinner in my 20s.

Yeah, same. Whatever you want, people pleasing. So I think at this time of life, we're doing it all, like zero fucks, all the things. And so So of course at this time of life it will only get better because the things I think we're worried about is like our weight or our hormones. Like we just said, you could solve for that. So the only thing we really have to learn is how do I know my body better? How do I ask for it? And how do I prioritize my pleasure? It's gonna get way better.

All right. Well, speaking of that piece of it, if someone doesn't know what they want, how do they get to know their body better? Where do they start?

A great place to start, like I said, is getting comfortable touching your own body. A lot of people grew up in environments where they were told it wasn't okay to masturbate, or they've been in a relationship and they think, well, I shouldn't need that. But there is so much to learn by touching your own body, taking a mirror, looking like what's actually going on. I highly recommend vibrators. I love vibrators.

Do you have some favorites?

I have so many favorite vibrators. I love anything by LELO. LELO makes really— L-E-L-O. I actually have a store on my site. If you go to sexwithemily.com, it's like shop with Emily. There's like a wonderful store.

We're gonna put all of this in the resources.

Yeah.

Do you have your lube there too?

I have everything. Yeah, I have a great store and I have my favorites and there's toys for really everything. So I think getting a great clitoral toy. There's a company called Jeju. They make a toy called the Mimi. It's great for partner play. It's great for your own play. Just use it to stimulate your own nerve endings. I mean, our clitoris has 12,000 nerve endings. A circumcised penis has 6,000 nerve endings. We just don't take the time to explore ourselves. And it's not just that little bud. The clitoris has legs. That go deep inside behind our labia. And when we just learn to like touch ourselves, I mean, I learned most of my own body by taking time by myself because I didn't have the pressure of a guy being like, are you gonna cum? What are you doing? Is it happening? And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna take a bath. I'm gonna figure this out. I was so excited to learn everything I could. So I tried every single toy. And what I love is something called mindful masturbation. And that is going in without the goal of orgasm. So this is, you take a bath, you light a candle, you take yourself on a date, and you, and this goes for men too, and I know that men are like, "Hit it and quit it, I know how to do it." But really when you just like, no porn, not that porn's bad, but you could turn off the porn and just be like, okay, I'm gonna close, like meditate, like what actually feels good? What kind of touch do I like? Do I like softer touch? Do I like harder touch? Do I like, what feels good all over my body? You know, and then you just start really focusing on that and then you start noticing, oh, I didn't know that the left side of my vulva left is more sensitive than the right. We just skip over things. Nipples— like, nipplegasms are so common, but most women have never had one because we never took the time. Nipplegasms. Our nipples and our clitoris are connected to the same region in our brains that cause orgasms. There's also something called the orgasm gap, where men are more likely to orgasm in like 8 to 12 minutes, maybe even sooner, maybe 6 to 9 minutes. And women take anywhere to orgasm between 20 and 40 minutes. Being people pleasers or not wanting to take so long, a lot of us just don't really take time exploring our bodies. On my website also, I have all these free guides, these free downloadable guides, and one is called the Yes, No, Maybe List. It has about 100 different sex acts on it. Yes, there are 100, and it'll be like everything from like oral sex to pegging to dirty talk to even cuddling, using toys together. And at the top, it says, is this a yes, is it a no, or is it a maybe? And then you take it, your partner takes it, and then you swap lists. You're like, I didn't know you wanted to talk dirty or have sex outside. I mean, it's just literally thousands of podcasts. I've been doing this for— I have so much resources on my site, but the guest is just a fun way to start. But how do you deeply, truly know what you want? I mean, that deep, like, what is my deepest pleasure? Another way is just thinking like, like about the touch, really having conversations. If you're in a relationship, like, what was the hottest sex we ever had? Like, what, what— let's talk about, like, let's write down the 3 most hottest moments you've had. I always say that, like, not in your life, but with your partner. And then exchange the list. Like, why was that hot? And then like, look at the DNA of that. Oh, we were on vacation, or we almost got caught. We've actually been having sex. So we actually know a lot more than we think. Yeah, there's so many ways to know what you want, but I guess it's just like, we don't— the reason I'm getting so specific is because I think we just don't really think about it. But we do know if we go a little bit more. And if we don't know, if you're a woman who's like— and I hear this a lot— I've been married for 25 years and I've been faking orgasms the whole time. I can't tell you how often I hear that from women. It's never been great. And to be honest, I think that that's what I'm saying, that for some women they're like, it was great in the beginning, but then we had kids and it's just, that ship has sailed. I firmly believe that it is never too late to start figuring out what— every woman can pretty much orgasm. I think it's like maybe women are pre-orgasmic, meaning they've never orgasmed, but most women when they take the time can figure it out. So even if you say to your partner, I mean, I don't know, that's, I've I've talked women through, I coach women through getting to their partners. But again, your partner wants to please you, and it's societal conditioning why we were faking it. So you could start today. You are capable of pleasure. Another thing, when I say pleasure, is this is just a more cultural thing. We tend to not do things that are pleasurable, and I'm going to take sex off the list for a minute. A lot of times we think pleasure, it comes with like, well, I will deserve to buy myself this thing if I jump through all these hoops, or I can only take, you know, go to a movie or see my friend. You know, we just put conditions on pleasure. But when we start to put things in our life that are more pleasurable, like pleasure begets pleasure. So I did this exercise once at a conference, like years ago, it was like a personal growth conference. And they had us write down everything we did in a week or everything that we loved doing that was pleasurable. I mean, it could be like, For me, it's like going on hikes, spending time with friends, you know? Um, it's a lot of outdoor stuff, being with my dog, being with friends, like, you know, cook. I mean, I'm not a chef, but some people like cooking. I'm trying to think what my, I have a li— I have a list of pleasurable things, massages. And then we had to do this math equation. And basically you figure out what percentage of your week are you spending doing these things? And mine came out to 3% I was doing for me. That wasn't about work, that wasn't about other people. And I'm like, and I talk about sex for a living, like 3%. So I really try to look at my calendar every week. I'm like, what am I doing for me? What am I doing that's strictly without obligations, without like having to do for someone else that I love doing? And so populate your life with those things because the more you're actually living in joy and pleasure, the more we're gonna be open to finding other pleasurable things. And a lot of that has to do with intimacy and sex. Giving ourselves permission is important.

I love the list. The list is fantastic. What's another thing, like one sentence? That could immediately improve your communication in bed?

Well, I always say communication is lubrication. I've been saying that for 20 years. So the more we talk about sex, the better sex we're going to have.

It seems a little challenging. That's why I like the list, because I was like, oh yeah, it's not— it's not a thing that we generally sit and talk about sex. No. Well, women talk about sex with other women.

Well, then I would have to give you my 3 Ts for any conversation. Timing, tone, and turf. These are my 3 T's for having any awkward conversation about sex, which most conversations about sex are awkward for most people. The first one is timing. You want to find a time when you are not HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. The second T is your tone. You don't want to be on the defensive. Why don't you ever go down on me? How come we haven't had sex in a while? You want to be curious, compassionate, chill. Hey, I realized we haven't really talked about our sex life in a while. Would be We should talk about our sex. What's good for you? And then the third one is turf, and the turf is outside the bedroom. So when you're going on a walk or on a road trip, this way you're not making eye contact, which could be awkward, so you can still have the intimacy. And then you just say like, I'd love to, you know, start talking about how we could be great lovers to each other.

Okay, let's do a little rapid fire to round it all up, tie a bow on it. Something every woman should unlearn.

Unlearn that you should immediately be in the mood for sex.

A belief about sex you've changed your mind about?

25 years ago, I thought that I was broken. I believed that I should have, that I should have an orgasm from a penis. Some women can, but most can't.

Yeah, I have like one friend who can. Yeah. One thing that improves sex instantly?

Lube. Lube and communication.

Something you wish men knew?

Slow down. I think sex goes really fast sometimes, and I think if men went 5 times slower there would probably be more connection and more, more pleasure for everyone.

One message to women over 40.

The best is yet to come. I feel like people probably always say like, oh, it's going to get great, but I really mean it. So for women over 40, I would say your best sex life is starting today.

I think it's your best everything life.

Your best everything life is starting today, especially your sex life.

Start now. Especially if lube's involved. Exactly.

Yes. Today's the first day of the rest of your sex life starting now.

So I am going to link to— I'll put it at jjvirgin.com/emily. Also, you have your book Smart Sex, you have Sex with Emily podcast, and I have a membership.

I have a membership. It's called Smart SX, and it is a monthly membership where people can come and meet. Like, I bring in experts every month and it's on— it's all virtual. But the thing I'm most excited about is I have a few slots open for my VIP coaching, which I just started as well. So I can, um, I stopped that for a while, but now it's happening. So if you either want coaching with me or you want to join the community of SmartSX and just find like, how can I have more conversations like this? How can I find the best resources? How can I have support? That's in the community.

Thank you for doing all this.

You're so welcome. I love what I do.

It shows. We need much more of this out there. I think we'd solve a lot of the world's problems if everyone just ate well, exercised, and had great sex.

I'm so with you, JJ Virgin. Thank you for having me. I appreciate y'all.