The Fierce and Kind Woman

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Hey, it's JJ Virgin and welcome to the JJ Virgin Lifestyle show where I talk nutrition, exercise and mindset with some of the coolest people in the world. Plus, I give you tips that you can put into fast action to uplevel your health so that you can go out there and live that big life you're meant to live. Now, today's show is all about how being a good girl could be hazardous to your health. And guys, you need to listen into this one too. It's with my buddy Dr. Aviva Ram, and it all came up over a controversial article that she wrote that brought up a lot of my own stuff with my son's acne accident, which you're going to hear about during the interview. Super excited to share this with you. Let me tell you a little bit about our guest, Dr. Aviva Rahm. First, she is referred to as the face of natural medicine in the 21st century by Prevention magazine and named one of the top 100 women to watch in wellness by Mind Bodygreen, she's bridged the best of traditional medicine with good science for over three decades. A midwife, herbalist and Yale trade medical doctor certified in family medicine with obstructives as well, I can say that, but not three times fast. As well. As a graduate of Dr. Weil's Integrative Medicine residency at the University of Arizona, her focus is on the impact of stress on health willpower, with an emphasis on reducing unnecessary reducing disease and hormone imbalance in women and the prevention of chronic disease in children's health, with the emphasis on reducing unnecessary antibiotic use. She's an avid environmental health advocate, researching and publishing on the impact of toxins on fertility, pregnancy, women's hormones and chronic illness in women and children. And she's one of the nation's leaders in botanical medicine and the author of seven books on natural medicine, including the textbook Botanical Medicine for Women's Health and her latest book, the Adrenal Thyroid Revolution. She's also the author of the Integrative Medicine curriculum for the Yale Internal Medicine and Pediatric Residencies, and is on numerous scientific advisory and editorial boards, including Prevention magazine. She lives and practices medicine in Western Massachusetts and New York City, and she is an author, speaker, and. And, as you can tell, knows her stuff. So I'm excited to introduce Dr. Aviva Ram to you. All right, so let's do it. Dr. Aviva Raum, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here with me today.

Thanks for having me, jj. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.

You know, we've known each other, gosh, a couple years now, and when you sent me that article you wrote on why being a good girl can be hazardous to your health, I was like, it just struck such a nerve because of what I went through with my son in the hospital. So I had to have you on. Now let's dive in. And first, Stephen, because people are going, what are you talking about? So what do you mean, first? Just about women in general being taught to be good girls. And why are we taught to be this?

You know, from the time we're kids, really as little as 2 years old, even as girls, we're kind of expected to toe the line, be the polite ones, be the one that share our toys, give up our space and our seats and our things to be polite and proper. You know, it's much more expected for boys, even though gender differences have kind of gotten a little bit less far apart. Those old stories and those old role models of the girl being the polite one, the good one, the kind one, the nice one, you know, the girls made of sugar and the boys made of spice really still hold sway. And it kind of is a storyline that for many women, carries throughout our lives. And actually, it's even worse for those women who have grown up in environments where somehow being the good one in the family is actually a role of peacekeeping. So maybe there's dysfunction in the relationship between the parents, or maybe there's a mom who's got a lot going on, and so the daughter learns to sort of keep the peace and be easygoing and not make waves and not cause trouble. And it's something we internalize. And sometimes, and not sometimes, very often, women even feel guilty for speaking up for ourselves, for holding our own.

Oh, come on. When we do, we're called the B word. Aviva, you know that you know, you stand up for yourself and it's like, well, who does she think she is? Right?

Absolutely. You know, I was the president of a national organization, and at some point my husband was recruited by me to be the executive director of that organization. And we would show up at board meetings and I would say to my husband ahead of time, hey, can you present this idea or can you sort of take control of this? Because if I know I do, I'm going to be called the B word. Where if you do, you can kind of get away with murder. Basically, just, you know, everyone will respect you. And so it was like this.

Good cop, bad, you'll be a strong man.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But, you know, I learned my lesson the hard way. And I will back up and say that as a kid. My mom, fortunately, was a really strong role model as an independent single mom early on, in the late 60s and early 70s. But when I went into medical school, I found myself in a very different setting. It was almost like being a guest in someone else's home. And in medical school, the power dynamics are very old school. It's very patriarchal. And as a subordinate or. And then as a subordinate who's also a woman, to get through, one starts to learn to play the game, which is to kind of keep your head down, you know, keep a low profile, not make waves, not be the troublemaker. And so even though that was very counter to my nature, and I had been a pretty fierce home birth midwife for most of my adult life, I sort of acquiesced. And I ended up learning a really hard lesson in that I had an incredibly lovely patient who had cancer, had had a bone marrow transplant, and then got an infection, very serious infection. And I was a medical student or an early resident at the time and the program director and who. The person who was in charge of the department I was working in at that time was a world famous man who was, you know, one of those oncologists who kind of wrote the book, literally. And I kept saying to him, look, I think so, and so has a pretty serious infection. And he kept dismissing me. Oh, it's the chemotherapy, it's this, it's that, it's the other. And even when I tried to order some tests to validate what I really thought was going on over the course of several days, I kept getting dismissed. And, you know, horrifyingly, this woman actually died. And it wasn't my fault. It was that by the time we. By the time I literally kicked and screamed and jumped up and down to get this, like physically was jumping up and down in the hallway saying, we need to get this test. And we got the test, it was too late. And she went to the ICU the next day where she died. And a few days later I had another patient who I felt was critically ill based on some subtle signs and symptoms that I saw on her morning exam. And this time I jumped up and down and really pitched a fit like I had to really convince this doctor, basically saying, I don't care if you fire me. Which in medicine is actually a huge deal when you're a medical student or a medical resident. It's not like you can just look for another job if you're fired. Your career is over in that field. But I just had to stand by my conviction that this woman was in serious, in a serious situation and he was dismissing me again. And this time I got the test and it turned out to be a critical, life threatening emergency. She went in for emergency neurosurgical surgery within 30 minutes of those test results coming out. And it saved her brain and it saved her life. And he sort of apologized to me actually, which was a huge deal. But it was a life changing moment for me as a doctor in that I was never going to notice, fight for my patients needs, even if it meant risking my own career or my own professional status or anything like that.

And that translates to life. And that's, you know, when I was still standing the first night of my son's accident. And my son had a torn aorta, multiple brain bleeds, 13 fractures. And the doctor said, you know, with all of these injuries, you need to just let him go. And we overruled him and airlifted him to another hospital where they saved his life. And I had someone working with me in my school social media department at the time. And a couple months later, her husband got diagnosed with cancer. And she went in to the hospital and you know, they were telling her, no, we can't do this and he can't have. She just went in. I go, you know what? You, this is not your time to be nice. You know, this is not your time to, to acquiesce. You go fight for your husband. You go do what you need to do. And she goes, God, I just am so used to trying to, you know, keep the peace and be nice. And I go, this is, if you do that, you will end up, you know, less than great care husband that could die. You're going to have to get in there and just, and just lay it down. And it's amazing because people feel so uncomfortable questioning authority, whether it's a doctor, an attorney, any types of things. They feel uncomfortable doing that. And quite often, if you're either the patient or you're the immediate family, like, you have intel that's life and life saving. So what have you seen? Like, you know, you just showed those things. I mean, have you seen this also in life? Because you've had a lot of patients. Now, what's the difference between a patient who will stand up for themselves and not. What are you seeing?

Well, it's a really powerful question, jj. The difference between a patient who will stand up for herself and who will not is often the difference between actually having a life that's enjoyable to live and isn't. So just for example, women with thyroid problems often are so fatigued that they are literally not able to function or live their best life or sometimes even get out of bed. And I've had patients before they've come to me who have spent five years trying to get a diagnosis because they know something's wrong with them. They know they're not well. They know that this isn't their normal energy level. They know they're not living their best life, and they know it's not just in their head, as they have often been told over and over and over. And yet they go from one doctor to another who basically says, you know, why don't you take an antidepressant? This is just anxiety. You're being oversensitive. I had one patient who was gaining weight. She had gained about 30 pounds in three months. And her doctor told her that if she just had better control of her hand going to her mouth with her fork in it, she would lose weight. I mean, this is how women.

Oh, my gosh.

There are many wonderful. I know, right? There are so many wonderful doctors out there, but there also are.

No. This just happened to my son.

Tell me. Tell me.

That just happened, literally. So my son, over the last four months, gained 20 pounds. He didn't change his eating. He eats really well, and he exercises. And this is the son with a brain injury. So he ran his labs. He's hypothyroid with elevated antibodies. And luckily, I have another friend, our buddy, Dr. Alan Christiansen, who also looked at it. But my other doctor said, he's well within range. Everything's fine. He just needs to exercise more. I'm like, do you know who I am? I know this is not an exercise problem. You know, someone doesn't just gain 20 pounds over four months without changing anything at the age of 20 when we know they already have a brain injury and so their, their pituitary function, their whole hormone system's off. You know, it's just crazy. But again, we have to go in there and thank, you know, it's so awesome, Aviva, that now we've got such great resources available online. Right. That people can, can start to go in there with some information. But gosh, if you get that, you know, it's time to change. To change doctors.

Absolutely. I mean, I think there's a really important distinction between being nice and being kind, which is something that I tried to import, impart to my daughters and share with my patients and my students. Nice is the good girl thing. Kind is something that we always want to be, even if we're delivering the truth. But I think that we need to think about owning our fierceness a little bit more. You know, an article came out in the New York Times recently showing that Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola are paying off major public health organizations. They are paying them off to the tune of millions of dollars and dictating the policies that are actually influencing what shapes health care, what shapes what our doctors are saying to us. And often our doctors don't even know that this on high level of policy shaping is happening due to higher level economics that actually have nothing to do with them. And they're just trying to do a good job following the policies that they're being told and they're assuming are based on evidence. And, and there is some medicine that's based on evidence. But it's very hard as a patient or a consumer to know which is which. So I, I think that we have to shift from being nice and kind to being fierce and kind. We have to take this mama bear attitude toward our kids, but also toward our own self selves and our own health. And you know, from the time we're young, we are taught to respect authority and expertise without question. But the reality is medicine is just one story and it's not all just based on the best available evidence and the best knowledge or the best expertise. It is, as I said, shaped by economics and other politics that may influence what's happening to you. It can be really scary to question your doctor, and it's especially hard when you're vulnerable and uncertain about what's going on with your own body, which is an important reason to, before we go into the doctor's office, to be prepared ahead of time with the questions that we want to ask. I even tell people script out those questions. Because when you're in a Johnny, you know, with your back, your butt flapping out because you're put into this gown waiting for a medical exam, you're sitting in a chair that's a foot lower than your doctor. Your doctor's not making eye contact because he or she is looking at a computer screen. It can make you feel very vulnerable, and it can make you lose your center and make you lose your power. So having those questions actually written out and going back to them and staying on task and also bringing an advocate with you can be enormously transformative in making sure that you get the care that you deserve and that you need and that it gives you a chance to kind of remember, remind you to step back into your own power and not become kind of infantilized or at the mercy of an expert.

And I love how you just said that, because it's not. It's not about being a bad person or a difficult patient or the B word. It's really about coming in with knowledge, being prepared. And I love the kind and fierce. It's. It's often awesome. And honestly, it is the difference between life and death. And it does start with us, because if our. If our children see us behaving this way, I mean, my kids, when they saw what happened with my son Grant and what I did, it's like they stand up for themselves, you know? So it's. It's the best way to be a role model, too. So I love what you just said, and it's so great to hear that from a medical doctor encouraging people to go out and do this. I want to also let everybody know that you have a book. It's either out or just on its way out. And it's the adrenal thyroid revolution. Super exciting. Now, if people want to learn more, Aviva, where should they go?

They should come join me over at the hub of the revolution, which is my website, www.avivarom.com. because it's really more than a book. It's a movement. It's a movement about taking back our health. And it's not just for women who know they have a thyroid problem or know they have adrenal problems. It's really for all of us who realize that we need to be able to hit the pause button, put on our own oxygen mask, and start to take back our health, because a lot of what's going on in our society drives us in the direction of adrenal and thyroid problems. So this is all about treatment, but it's also all about prevention and I'm.

Betting people don't know how to spell your name. So it is a V I V A r o m m. So www.a v I v a r o-m dash com great information there and I love what a powerhouse for good you are out there in the world. Thank you so much and thank you for joining me today. And I want to remind everyone listening to visit avivarom.com now after the break I'm going to be answering listeners questions. So stay with me.

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This is the time where I answer a listener's question. And actually what I'm going to do today is a little different. I'm going to do a compilation question because what I've noticed happens every time I do a Facebook live or I do one of the Q and A calls for my community is I always get asked for a referral for a functional medicine doctor and an integrated practitioner in their area. So I want to give you a little bit, since we talked about this during the interview, about, you know, getting a second opinion, what to look for. So the first thing you want to do is make sure that you're going to the right doctor to begin with. And when I say that, I mean someone that is going to go to the root cause with you and really take the time to listen, understand what all is going on. Because a disease is not one specific thing that's interrelated. And you've got to find out, go through the matrix of all of the things that can be going on. Your genetics, your diet, your lifestyle, your personal history book of what's happened with your body, your environment. And then put that together with assessments, labs, symptoms to be able to really make an integrated plan for what you need to do. And that's a very different approach than traditional medicine has done. And it is the approach called functional medicine. So what I recommend to people when I'm, when I'm doing either my again, Facebook lives If you're not watching my Facebook lives, jump on with me at my on my Facebook fan page. I've been doing them a couple times a week. Love it and I'll answer your questions live. But first thing you can do is go to the Institute for Functional Medicine or the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine. And those are both two great places to get people who've been trained and certified in integrative functional medicine. But it goes further than that. And this is where I really like to get a referral from a friend or a practitioner. Because you also want to make sure that you're with someone who you connect with because ultimately you're going to need to spend the time with them. They're going to need to understand what's going on with you. And so you want someone that you connect well with. You don't feel intimidated by, if you're, if feeling intended by your healthcare professional, that's there's something wrong there. This is someone you need to be able to connect to, share your story with, feel comfortable telling everything to, and then know that they're listening, truly listening and putting that all together in that care plan. So what you can do if you're looking for one again, Institute for Functional Medicine and A4M are great places to go look. But also if you go onto my Facebook page, we get requests all the time for this and I have an amazing community of of healthcare professionals that I can tap into. So if you are looking for one, you can also just go to Facebook jjvirginfanclub and say jj, I'm looking for an integrated practitioner in this area and we will do our best to find one for you. How's that for service? Alrighty. If you'd like to submit a question, just go to jjvirgin.com ask and you can leave a voicemail for me. I love hearing from you Mew. And one more way, I'd love to hear from you. I would hugely appreciate it if you could jump on Stitcher or itunes and leave a review for me. It helps a bunch. And be sure to subscribe and share the show with your friends. This is JJ Virgin signing off and reminding you that you are worthy. Dare to live a life that matters.

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