The Keys to Glowing Skin (No Serums Required!) with Dr. Keira Barr

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When I've eaten a little too much sugar or I'm not hydrated, I'll get dry patches around my chin and my mouth. It's fascinating. Your skin. You is sending you signals all the time.

Here's jj, Virgin triple board certified nutrition.

And fitness expert and four time New York Times best selling author.

It's time to reignite wellness.

Hey, it's jj. So I am obsessed with skin. I've like, if you come in, come over to my house at some point, you look in my bathroom, you will see like I am like a hoarder of skin products. And it was because I struggled with my skin for years and years and years from like the age of 10, 11 years old until I finally was able to connect the dots and figure out that it wasn't just sugar that was creating the problems for my skin. That dairy was a massive culprit and that kind of spurred the birth of the virgin diet. And we go on from there. So I'm always seeking out super smart people to talk skin with. And so I was thrilled to run to Dr. Kira Barr at the Mind Body Green revitalize event out in Tucson, Arizona last July. Hey, shout out Mind Body Green. Friends, let's not do Tucson in July though. Let's like possibly do it in, I don't know, the fall. Anyway, it's a fun event and I was excited to run into Kira and I was like, all right, my friend, you need to come on the show and talk skin. So we're going to dive in today with Dr. Kira Boy Barr, who is a dual board certified dermatologist. She's also certified in integrative wellness and with her own health struggles, really kind of redid her entire career. How she approaches skin and health and has some really interesting things to share with us today on what to do with your skin. And one thing that I was so excited when she mentioned because it's something you probably would Never think about with skin that can make the biggest change. And I'm not telling you what it is. You'll have to listen to the interview. Also want to mention that she's got a great book, the Skin Whisperer. A dermatologist reveals how to look younger, radiant, radiate beauty and create the life you crave. Now I'm going to put her information up at jjvirgin.com forward/beauty code because today we're really talking about cracking the beauty code and about what you need to do for glowing skin. And it is not hint, hint what you're putting on your skin. Even though I love all that stuff, there's that's kind of secondary to the rest of it. All right now before we dive into that, I wanted to do a shout out to a Quinns from the Philippines. Oh, I just love, love, love that we have listeners in the Philippines. How super cool. All right, so five star review says one of the best podcasts for fitness and weight loss. This is for sure in my top podcast. Easy to implement strategies for weight loss. Each time I refresh my podcast feed, I'm hoping that I'll see new podcasts if you aren't already listening list. Rather, do yourself a favor and subscribe. Ah, thank you so much. So you can subscribe easily. All you have to do is go to subscribe to jj and while you're there, love to have a review from you so I can shout you out. Here's the deal too, what you're going to find. We're in a season two after. After a couple years, we've now done season two. And now what we're doing is a guest interview, a solo interview. I guess it's not really an interview if it's a solo. It's me. And then I'm doing Friday Q and A. So we've got three things coming out each week, so you'll definitely want to subscribe so you never miss an episode. All right, getting ready to dive into this interview. But first, a favorite.

Hey, J.J. virgin here. Okay, real talk. So often the holidays sneak up on me, travel gifts, hosting, you know, all the things. And suddenly it's like, wait, who spent what and where? And I know I'm not the only one who's looked at a bill in January and thought, wow, that escalated quickly. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch. It's rated the Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or on your phone. Monarch lets you link everything and gives you real time visibility so you're not shocked later. Right now, I've been checking the holiday spending category so I don't accidentally start the new year with that dreaded debt hangover. And honestly, just seeing everything laid out is already helping me stay more aware. This season, Monarch does the heavy lifting. It links your accounts in minutes, gives you smart categorization and super clear visuals. Yes, that end of year reset could be a real goal this time. Don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks. Use the code virginonarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year@monarch.com with the code Virgin.

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Ray Ban stores and other authorized retailers. Doctor Kira Barr, welcome to the show. I'm super, super excited to dive into all things skin with you.

Well, I am super excited to be here with you.

Okay, so something a little thing no one knows about me, like, I would love to be a dermatologist.

Really?

I think that if I was any type of doctor, I think GI doctors and dermatologists, but dermatologists especially, because, you know, you can. I looked, I think back to school and I always loved math in school because you could tell if you were doing it right. You got instant feedback. And when you think about skin, like skin, you get instant feedback. Is this helping or not?

100%. Yes. I always say that your skin is. Can be your biggest cheerleader and it is also your worst confidant. It'll tell all your secrets.

Yes. So I'd love to know before we dive into all of this, you as the skin whisperer, which I love. And I know you have just a different approach. So I'm really excited about this interview. But I'd love to know how you got here in the first place, what made you decide to become a dermatologist and get into all of. And then. And then kind of take a different path than most of the dermatologists.

Yeah. You know, it's so funny. It wasn't until very recently it was actually after mindshare actually, and working with Chris Smith and working on kind of diving into my. My story that I really was able to connect the dots going backwards as to how I probably wound up in dermatology in the first place, because I was made. I had two birthmarks on one on each side of my face. And as a kid, I was basically bullied because of them. And they were called coffee stains. And I was just embarrassed by them and tried to hide.

So they weren't like a Cindy Crawford birthmark?

No, no. They're a little. But you know what's funny and ironic is they literally are cafe au lait spots. So those. Those kids actually were really smart. And if only I had perceived and had a different way of seeing things then. But I think my fascination with skin or not feeling comfortable in my skin was a big driver for when I went to medical school. You know, I just didn't put it all together, but dermatology, so there's that personal piece. But then in medical school, I couldn't make up my mind. I'm like one of those people, if you had, when I was eating cereal, had to have like 100 cereals, you know, I could never make. I need to have all the variety. And dermatology is that. It's internal medicine, it's pediatrics, it's surgery, it's cosmetics, it's pathology. And you didn't have to choose. You got to. It was like the best of everything. And it just. It just won my heart over. And so I'm also dermatopathologist, so. So setting skin on the surface as well as what's beneath it and, and being able to, you know, visualize, you know, when you see things underneath the microscope and then being able to know exactly what that's going to look like on the surface, I just geek out on that. I love it.

Wow. I.

It's.

I think it's super fascinating. And again, I had really, really bad skin starting, like, just literally the age. I think like the age of 11 or 12. Boom. I had bad skin my. My whole life until I really, really stopped listening to doctors telling me that diet had nothing to do with it. Right. And figuring that piece out. But, you know, I, I just. I just find all of this so fascinating. And especially now that, that we are starting to look beyond just. I mean, back. Back when I was having all these issues, it was all, what could you do topically? Never what was really going on. Right. So since you really wanted to be in something where you could look at everything and clearly with the skin. So much of what we do is reflected on our skin. What's your approach? Like, how do you approach this? Because again, you know, for so many years, I went to dermatologists and they told me just to try different topical things or take antibiotics. They never once said it could be something that I was doing or. Or a lifestyle habit or anything else.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, our. We were taught to just name tame or name blame, and tame. Right. So this is what it is. We think this is why it's happening. And this is the pill or. Or sab that you're going to use to deal with it. And honestly, it. My approach really stemmed out of my own health issues. Several years ago, my health really took a turn, a downturn. I thought I was doing all the healthy right things, but had diagnosing myself with melanoma and then had hormone issues and tore my hip and reconstructive surgery. You know, gut issues. I mean, it was a literal shit show. And I was going from doctor to doctor, and they were just giving me different pills and try this and do that. And I was just feeling sicker and sicker and. And my pain wasn't going away. I wasn't getting better. And I was like, wait a second. There's got to be. There's got to be another way. There's got to be something more than I can do. And that is really what led me on the path of really taking a deeper look at how I was truly living my life. Like, you know, it's true in dermatology, especially in the literature, there's been such a debate whether diet makes a difference. So far back as the 1930s, there were two dermatologists, Stokes and Pillsbury, who did a lot of research and really identified.

It's not Pillsbury, like Pillsbury the.

Not the Doughboy, but it is.

I was like, wouldn't that be ironic?

Okay.

But they did identify a link, you know, the gut, brain connection and anxiety. Unfortunately, our specialty kind of just swept it under the rug for several decades. And thankfully, now Pendulum is swinging back and really bringing awareness to the fact that diet can make a difference, especially dairy and sugar, with regards to acne and just inflammation in general. But for me personally, you know, looking at my diet was one of the first things that I had to do. And I, you know, with a family history of heart disease, I had been under the impression you should be eating low fat and all, you know, and so. So really, you know, working with the nutritionist and starting with food and then the Second piece was sleep. You know, as physicians, we don't prioritize sleep whatsoever. And I trained during the time There was no 40 hour work week. You were at the hospital for 48, 72 hours. Whenever the work was done is when you got to go home. And I had, even though it had been like, you know, 10 years, I was still in a pattern of always being on the go and I'll catch up later and not realizing the stress that that put on my body.

I hope they've changed that in hospitals because although I didn't see it when my son was just in the hospital five years ago, it's like, I don't understand the point of working people to exhaustion in a place where you're hoping to get people healthy, but you're not starting with, you know, it's like, I don't, I don't get the reason behind that. It's just crazy. So hopefully, hopefully that's starting to shift. But so, so you figured out diet stuff now as you were starting to make these changes, and I know that it was overall a lot of different health issues. Were you starting to notice anything going on with your own skin, with it, like what was happening?

Yeah. So for me, my tell number one with regards to my diagnosis of melanoma for the decade prior, every few months I was getting biopsies for growing and changing lesions. My, my moles were funky, changing, changing color, and I just thought that was normal. As a dermatologist, you know, we just cut it out. What I noticed once I started really paying attention to all facets of my well being, I have not had to have a biopsy in seven years now, like, my skin has stabilized. So that's huge. That's number one, really focusing on antioxidants and decreasing the, you know, the stress load on the body. The second thing for me, my tell, when I've eaten a little too much sugar or I'm not hydrated or really not taking as good care of myself, especially with travel, I'll get dry patches around my chin and my mouth and, and you know, when I am more mindful and I'm hydrating well, I'm really focusing on taking good care of myself. Those clear up. So it's, it's fascinating. Your skin is sending you signals all the time. It is that idea that you want to hear the whisper, not the shout. And so that those dry patches are the whisper. Like, listen, you got to pay attention. What are you doing right now? Are you hydrating? Are you sleeping? Are you doing the things that are going to support your well being because the shout was the melanoma and I don't want anyone else to get there. So, yeah, your skin definitely gives signals and for mine, those were the two big ones.

And the thing you don't want to do is get the signal and just go cover it up.

Right. It's not just like, oh, let me just put a little foundation makeup on it. Let's just ignore it. Yeah, no, pay attention to that. You know, in this today's society, you know, thyroid issues are. I feel like everyone has thyroid issues, myself included. And I know that a lot of that is from years of stress. But you know, hair thinning, hair loss, thinning of the eyebrows, dry skin. There's so many signs and, you know, messages that your skin is sending you that can be clues to thyroid issues or metabolic syndrome. You know, there's something called acanthosis nigricans that usually on the folds of the skin, back of the neck, groin, axilla, you know, darkening and thickening of the skin, those are telltale signs that your body is struggling and is insulin resistant. So, you know, there are just so many opportunities just by taking a few minutes to kind of party in your birthdays here, right? Like get naked, just kind of look at yourself and see what is different, what is changing so that you can really tune into what may need more of your attention and get checked out by a dermatologist.

I'm like, I will tell you that I do like, you know, a magnifying mirror every single day and body check. I mean, okay, maybe I'm a little bit over the other side. And then I have my derm, who I have look at, like I see him every three to six months and have things checked because it's like, you know, catch these things before they become problems. But you can start to see any shift. Like if your diet shifts, your skin shifts. So super critical when. So for you, you're a practicing dermatologist, what are women coming to you most?

Yeah, so, you know, complaining. The last few years, I've actually not been practicing in the traditional sense. So I don't have a brick and mortar. So I am teaching women how to address their skin, both literally and figuratively. Because for me, you know, my story was that I just felt uncomfortable in my skin, didn't have self confidence and that really impacted how I was showing up in the world and the tools that.

But it really does, it impacts every. I think about all the things I missed in school because I was so self conscious about my Skin.

I just didn't absolutely 100%. And that's a big component of what I work with women currently. So what, what I find most women are complaining just because I've shifted the focus of my practice is they are for the most part tired of being, being tired. They look in the mirror and they've got those dark circles. They are wondering why their skin is so sallow and dispigmented and they're getting more wrinkles and they're breaking out when they didn't used to break out before. And so much of that is a direct correlation to their environment and their lifestyle factors. And that's such a beautiful. It's frustrating on one hand because there is no quick fix, but it's such a gift on the other because there are so many opportunities to make changes and to then see big shifts.

Right. And in most things in life there's not a quick fix. But I think what's cool is there is a fix and it's not a $200 skin serum. I mean, those things can help. Hey, I've got a, like, I've got, I'm also a skincare junkie. But you know, I would think that it starts much more with diet and lifestyle and then those things can help. But without that key underlying stuff, 100.

And like, yeah, those serums can be really expensive. So if you want the best return on your investment, you kind of need to do all the things and then the serum is the icing on the top. Like you can't, you know, we always talk about like you can't diet and supplement your way to healthy. You know, that stuff will help, but it's, it's taking a more comprehensive approach.

Well, let's talk about a little bit of that. So like, if you were going to pick one thing, and I know it's really a variety of things that are going to help. And I'm going to put all the links to your information in the show notes and I'll do that@jjvirgin.com forward slash beauty code. But what would be like the first one thing, if people are going to pick one thing to shift sleep, that you would make the biggest impact. I love that you said that. Like, that makes me so deliriously happy. That's like, I am so in line with you. Because if I could pick one thing, people always, I'm going to say gluten or sugar and I'm like, no, it's sleep. And why is that?

Why is sleep such a key critical one for your Hydration, you know, like you do. There's transepidermal water loss, but it's the time of repair and growth factors and other things that keep your skin resilient and youthful looking. The most important thing is you generate melatonin when you sleep. And melatonin, you know, being one of the most potent antioxidants in our body is significant for skin research. And I'm kind of excited. It's kind of like the new, like, buzz ingredient that's in a lot of skincare products these days. Because what they found is that melatonin is significant with helping DNA repair from UV exposure. So they're actually doing studies using topical melatonin, even for skin cancer prevention and management. And you generate that potent ingredient in your body when you sleep. So. Yeah. Yeah. So I can't.

So it also declines as we age. So is this something that you're recommending people supplement as well? Like, could that be helpful especially with protecting against skin cancers, or am I making.

I think that I'm still. Still being done in terms of topical application. I don't typically recommend a lot of oral supplementation. I like to use other supplements that help support good sleep, like L theanine, magnesium, you know, valerian, things that help ease someone into sleep and get restful sleep versus giving them melatonin. Because not everyone responds well to it. They have that kind of groggy hangover feel. So I guess that's my.

Yeah, I find people who've got enough melatonin have a groggy hangover feel, and when they don't, they don't like. So I think it's actually kind of a good subjective assessment. I know back 20, 30 years ago, I couldn't take any melatonin. I'd be like, hungover the next day. Now I do great with it.

Yeah.

So I'm sure some of that. Sadly, the decline with aging. All right, beyond. Beyond sleep, which I love. What about, like, what are some of the.

I had mentioned earlier, sugar, which I, you know. Right. Right in your wheelhouse, and dairy. And they. They both. Yeah.

Yep. Dairy changed my. Oh, my gosh. All those years of eating dairy and. And then Kira, when the whole frozen yogurt craze came out and I was having non fat, was all non fat. I mean, I had cystic acne for what, like 20, 25 years until I figured out it was dairy, I was like, oh, my gosh. So, yeah, let's. Let's go after dairy and let's go after, like, sugar. What is it? Really doing to your skin. And why is it such a problem?

Both of them especially, they stimulate the insulin growth factor 1 receptor, which turns on, you know, your oil glands to produce more oil, which is one of the contributing factors for acne. So that's one of the biggest, you know, components. The other thing is inflammation. So especially with sugar, there's something called the accelerated glycation end products. And sugar. You know, sugar isn't the only thing that generates these cooking methods and things like that can as well. And they're naturally produced in the body. But sugar kind of accelerates the production of accelerated glycation in products. And what that, what these do is they kind of glom onto your proteins like your collagen and your elastin, and make them stiff and brittle. And your collagen and elastin are the supportive tissue structure of your skin that helps it look plump and useful and gives you that glow. And so sugar just kind of speeds up the process of their breakdown.

I always tell people to think of the crust on bread.

Yeah, yeah.

Because that's definitely not what I want my skin to look like. So I know we're, we're getting a little bit over time, but I want, I have one more thing I'd love to just ask about because it's such an area, a challenging area. And that's the whole controversy about sunscreens. Like, what do we do here? You know, it's like you want, you want to be protecting yourself against skin cancers, but, you know, then you hear about all these bad ingredients. Sunscreen.

Yikes. That is such a loaded question. Yeah, that's a tough one. So I've always been a proponent of mineral based sunscreens. And zinc oxide has always been my hero ingredient number one. It can be used from your littles to your adults. So one bottle of sunscreen, the whole family can use. It's, it's tolerated for most skin types. It has broad spectrum coverage against UVA rays and UVB rays. And so. But sunscreen isn't everything. So it's when you get outside, use it on your exposed parts, but wear clothing that can protect, you know, the majority of your body. A hat, sunglasses.

Now, I know there's special, like, you know, clothing with spf, but does you need to have SPF clothing or does all clothing do it?

So all. So this is. So this was also one of my detours along my path was creating a sun protective clothing line, which I am thinking I need to circle back to that.

Do you have a protective clothing line?

So I made it for kids, and it was for everyday wear, because everything that's on the market right now, with all due respect, they're frumpy and they're ugly. And I was like, I lived in California at the time. The teachers did not have the bandwidth to put sunscreen on my kids. And my daughter was getting sassy and didn't want to wear what I wanted her to wear. So I actually created.

This is why I had boys.

You see, Boys are awesome. And just created pieces that were already in her closet but were made with some protective fabric. So to your point, all clothing offers some level of protection, but the average T shirt, the average cotton T shirt offers, we use the terminology UPF rather than spf, which is some protection factor, but essentially they're equivalent scale. So for a cotton T shirt, it's only a UPF of 5 or 10. So it will give you some protection. And depending on what your skin type is, how sensitive you are to the sun. Mind you, your sensitivity to the sun does increase based on any medications that you're taking, underlying medical conditions that you might have. Those individuals with autoimmune, certain autoimmune diseases like lupus, are going to be much more sensitive to the sun. So they'll give you. Your clothes, will give you some sort of protection. But if you know that you're going to be outdoors, like going for a hike and spending a lot of time outdoors, and your skin is really sensitive, you're going to want to find clothing with the actual UPF label on it anywhere of like 30 and above.

Ah, okay. And yeah, you're right. I've looked and it's so not cute.

I know.

So maybe you could, like, this is a great, like. Because I know you need another business.

I do.

Oh, you do? Because, boy, sexy, sexy UPF clothing. Here we go.

This is. I feel like that's in many ways my greater mission and calling. You know, it was always the focus of my practice, skin cancer and melanoma, then personally having to deal with it. And it's the most prevalent cancer in this country. 2 out of 3 people in Australia will be diagnosed with melanoma. I mean, this is a world I.

Did not know this was the most prevalent cancer.

Wow. Yeah, it's the most prevalent. And that's the thing. It's the most preventable and the most ignored.

Oh, my gosh.

Wow. Yeah, it's a. It's a big deal. And, you know, it costs over $8 billion a year to manage and treat. It doesn't get as Much attention because things like diabetes and cardiac disease are, you know, multiple billions, like, you know, 50, 30 billion, like so. So skin cancer gets knock down the pegs, but it's a quality of life issue. You know, people are having so many, you know, their faces cut open, chunks of their skin getting cut out and then scars. So granted the clothing is not going to help from that perspective. But eating a good diet, certain supplements that you can take. But you know, I feel that we.

Must have you back to just go, no, seriously, to just dive into skin cancer. And as you're saying this, it's like my sister in law has got a huge issue on her face from, from this. And it's like. So yeah, let's, let's come back and we'll do a deep dive into skin cancer and everything that we can do because I know there's a lot of things you can also do internally that can help and you know, let's definitely do that because it's, we need to address this more. I had no idea it was the most prevalent cancer. That's, that's amazing. I know my husband who grew up in San Diego and played beach volleyball, you can imagine without his shirt on his back now looks like, you know, he's got chunks out of it. It's crazy. And has to go to the dermatologist every six months just to check things out. I'm always eagle eyeing it to make sure. But yeah, let's, let's go deeper in that. But for today, I know that we have, we have, for everybody listening, we have your glowing skin guide, your three keys to glowing skin. So that's a, that's a start. And we've gotten some really great information on, I mean, just the sleep alone. I'm so beyond excited about hearing you say that. And so I super appreciate that you'll be able to get the guide over@jjvirgin.com beauty code. And then we'll come back once, we'll set up another time to come back in and talk all things skin cancer, you know, how to identify it, what you can do about it. This is super important. Obviously not the tag end of a podcast. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for like also being willing because it takes a lot and a lot of times I find with people it's, it's kind of going into their own journey that makes them open up to really look at everything and go, all right, what, you know, what can I do? And, and then being willing to walk away from brick and mortar and take this message out to the world like, thank you, we need you out there and that's just fantastic. So thank you so much for that and for your time today. Super appreciate it. And again, grab that@jjvirgin.com forward/beauty code. Now after the break, I'm going to come back and give you some top takeaways. So stay with me.

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Okay, this is where I give you my action step. Your big challenge. Marching orders to make sure that with the information that you got today, you can do something with it that gives you, starts to give you results. And again, I think it's so fascinating with skin because your skin is your mirror and it's going to tell you what's going on. So it's really learning how to be your own health detective. You know, I'm big on that. And to start identifying these things, which is why it's so key critical to have a journal so that you're journaling what you're doing with your diet and lifestyle strategies so that if something does shift in your skin, you can go back and go, what did I shift in my diet and lifestyle? What's going on here? Now here's my marching orders for you. Number one, start to take some inventory of your skin. Now I literally have a magnifying mirror which can be a little horrifying at first. I'm going to tell you. So if you haven't been using a magnifying mirror, you might go, oh my gosh, what the heck is that? But I use this magnifying mirror, I check in every single day just to make sure nothing funky weird is appearing where it shouldn't be. And then also I just do a spot body check as well. So that, that's my first one I'm going to throw out there is just to start to get really familiar with your skin so that if something new does pop up, you are aware because again now that I had no clue that skin cancer was the most pervasive cancer. But that means that if Something does happen, you will catch it really quickly. Next thing is that you know how beyond deliriously excited I was to hear that sleep was the number one thing for skin. And so what I'm going to challenge you with there, I wear an OURA ring. And we'll put that in the resources and get some kind of tracking device. OURA Ring Fitbit. But you know what, you measure and monitor, you can improve. And so I check my OURA ring every single day for my sleep score and my readiness score. And I am committed to getting eight to nine hours of sleep a night, which means if I want eight hours of sleep, I can't go to bed at 10 if I'm getting up at 6 because I'm not not falling asleep the minute my head hits the pillow. So ideally, you're getting in bed 30 minutes before and at least and then you're falling asleep easily and then you're staying asleep throughout the night and then you're waking up without an alarm feeling rested. That's the goal. If you're snickering at me, we've got some work to do anyway. That's the goal. Let's start with that. So big takeaways from the day. Now you have yet another reason besides me harping on sleep for health and weight loss and insulin sensitivity and appetite control and growth hormone and anti aging is to put it in there for your skin as well. And then to really familiarize with yourself with your skin so that when you do see the shifts, you'll be able to go, all right, is this something that I need to go to see my doctor about or is this something that I need to shift in my diet or my lifestyle routine? What's going on? Okay, awesome. Couple reminders. Number one, jjvirgin.com beauty code. Get the show notes and also get the links to some of the things we talked about today. And I'll put my my sleep tips in there as well. And then we also will put Kira, Dr. Kira Barr's Glowing Skin Guide, Three Keys to Glowing Skin.

And.

Subscribe to JJ. If you haven't subscribed yet, make sure you do. All you have to do is go to subscribetojay.com and while you're there, I'd love a review. Let me know what you think. And if there's something you'd like to hear more about, let me know that, too. That's how we decide what's going to happen on the episodes, is we hear from you because this is your show. All right, see you soon. Ciao.

Foreign.

Hello listeners. This is Anne Bogle, author, blogger, and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next reads. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and visit our website. What should I readnextpodcast.com to find out more.