The Mask of Masculinity with Lewis Howes

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Hey, it's JJ Virgin and welcome to the JJ Virgin lifestyle show where I give you the latest cutting edge intel to help you look, feel and think better. I have a returning guest today, someone who I totally adore. He is, gosh, just great on so many levels and if you haven't heard him before, you're going to probably fall in love with him on this show. He is talking about a subject that you might go, J.J. what is this got to do with health? And you're going to see that it actually has everything to do with health. And it's going to show you how to have better relationships with the men in your life if you're a man, how to have a way better relationship with yourself and others, but also how this impacts the choices you make in terms of healthy choices in your life. And you know, Tony Robbins says that mindset's 80% of of life and strategy is 20%. I'm thinking it's more like 95%. So this is super key. So today we are talking to Lewis Howes and I've had him on the show before. Absolutely love this guy. He's a New York Times bestselling author, high performance business Coach and Keynote Spe. He hosts a top 100 iTunes ranked podcast, the School of Greatness. It's awesome by the way. I've had the good fortune to be on it and he is amazing. You've got to dial into this. We'll put it in the show notes. He's had over 5 million downloads and 500 episodes. Oh my gosh. My hero. He's also a contributing writer for Entrepreneur and he's been featured on Ellen, the Today show, the New York Times, People, Forbes and a bunch of other media. And he's here with us today to talk about his new book. This is, you know, it's, it's so weird that you find something where it's like brand new Mind blowing information, but you're gonna get it here with this new book, the Mask of Masculinity. And so I'm super excited to have my buddy Lewis Howes with us today. All right, let's do it. Welcome back to the show, Lewis Howes. It's so good to have you.

I appreciate it, jj. Thank you so much.

Well, this is an interesting topic for my audience, and I am super excited about this book that you've written here, the Mask of Masculinity.

Thank you.

What made you do this?

Oh, lots of pain and suffering that I was facing as a man and didn't know how to get out of it. I constantly felt like this anxiety, this comparison, this lack of inner peace. And I just thought that was the way of life. And I thought that I needed to achieve more, make more, you know, get more girls, all these things in order to improve my self worth. And what I realized that none of it made me happy and that I had to put my self worth actually in my self worth, not on other things. And I realized that a lot of other men who grew up like me were suffering as well and who weren't. They weren't opening up and expressing themselves or having just normal, intimate conversations where they shared their fears, their insecurities, and other things that they were afraid of. 50% of men don't feel like they have a good guy friend, one good guy friend that they can open up to. And you know, as generally as women, you see women getting together every day, talking about their fears, their insecurities, what they're going through. And for men, at least the men that I've grown up with and kind of the men that I've been around in my life, it was never acceptable to show that you had a weakness or to show that you were afraid or to show that you had insecurities because it would look as weak or less than a man. And heaven forbid you have some fears or insecurities that you want to talk about. So for 25 years, I pretty much never opened up about the things I was afraid of, insecure about. And I suffered. I would suffer in the fetal position, literally in my bed many, many nights, because I didn't know how to communicate it to anyone else. And so I would just be alone, suffering. And it wasn't until four years ago I started to finally open up about just everything I was afraid of my whole life, everything I was insecure about. I got in a really bad fight, a physical fist fight on a basketball court, actually, as I was going Through a toxic breakup for eight months. I didn't know how to get out of this relationship. I didn't have the emotional communication skills to really say the things I wanted to say and to leave. And I used that kind of aggression. The things I was angry with about the relationship. I didn't take it out on her, but I took it out on other guys in the world. And it was like I was always looking for a fight. I just. Anyone looked at me the weird way. I just wanted to fight them, right. And because I would never hit a girl, but I will, you know, take it out and punch a wall or hurt myself or hurt someone else. And again, I just. I just thought that was the way life was. I thought that's. That's how I was. And it wasn't going to change. I didn't know there was another way.

And, you know, Louis, it's breaking my heart to hear this, because I just wonder how many more men are out there like this. And, you know, I have two boys. They're 20 and 21. And I have really worked with them to make it okay that you don't have to be strong and, you know, never cry.

Good. You're a great mom.

It was so cool, you know, just. Just at my wedding, Bryce, my 20 year old, was getting ready to walk me out, and he looked at me and he goes, I just love you so much. I just don't know if I'm going to be able to hold it together. And.

And literally that moment.

He is just the sweetest guy. And he. And he sat down, he walked me down the aisle. And our buddy Dave Asprey is like, my family walked my mom down the aisle. So he literally, he was, like, curled up almost in a fetal position with Dave, you know, going through this. It was so great to see that he had a role model of Dave who's absolutely willing to be vulnerable, as we both know. And, gosh, I'm hearing this going, this is so big, and it's big for us women, too, to create a safe place for our men in our lives, whether they're our friends or our husbands. Because you're right, so many men can't talk to other men about these issues they have, these superficial relationships. Right. But I've always had a lot of guys, friends, and, you know, this is a great thing for us to be able to support them through and create the safe place where no one's gonna judge them.

Exactly, exactly. And. And, you know, a few years ago, after this fight and after this toxic breakup, and just a lot was not working in my life, you know, where I thought I was in the top of the world. I made a lot of money, sold a business, you know, had this hot girlfriend. You know, all these things looked like they were working well, but I didn't know why I was suffering and internalizing it with this unfulfillment and just. Just constant pressure. It was like the weight of the world was on my shoulders. And I'm not sure if you could ever relate to that, but just like all this pressure. Yeah, right. And it was just like, it was like, you know, my chest was tight, I was heart palpitating. It felt like every other day just because I didn't know how to emotionally let go in a healthy way. I could let it go through working out and punching things and playing basketball and screaming at people and being aggressive, but that's the only way I knew how to get these emotions out. And so I started to do some. Some work, some emotional intelligence work. I went to therapists, I hired coaches. I was like, for the first time in my life, I was open to feedback. I was open to people giving me suggestions. As before, I had to wear the mask that I knew everything, that I knew the answers, that I didn't need help. You know, again, kind of that role of the lone wolf. I felt like no one could give me anything. And so much opened up for me when I finally allowed myself to get feedback from what was working in my life and what wasn't working in my life and how to improve. And that's when I finally started to open up about, you know, being sexually abused as a kid. About, you know, my brother was in prison for four and a half years. My three older siblings all attempted to commit suicide when I was younger because they were going through a lot of stuff because my parents were constantly fighting and, you know, similar stuff that a lot of kids went through with their, you know, parents struggling and going through divorce. But, you know, there's not many other guys that I knew growing up with who talked about being sexually abused. In fact, I never heard of another guy talking about it. So for me, I never felt like it was okay to share with anyone because it wasn't acceptable. It was. It was less than a man. You were, you know, an abused girl, essentially, is what the. The idea was. You were less than a man if you were sexually abused.

Yeah, it's bad enough for a woman, but as a guy. Right. And so, you know, probably your parents said not to talk about it.

My parents didn't know, I didn't tell anyone because I was so ashamed and embarrassed, and no one knew for 25 years. And, you know, I wish I would have told my parents because I probably would have been able to heal a lot better. I wish I would have told my family, but I was so ashamed and embarrassed that this had happened to me. And I was already trying to fit in as a kid growing up. I was already trying to be just accepted by my classmates and my teammates that that was challenging enough, just trying to be a, you know, a teenager. And it wasn't until I finally started to open up about these things four, four and a half years ago that it was like the weight finally started to come off my shoulders where I allowed people to see me for the things I've been through, for who I am, what I'm afraid of. And I didn't try. I didn't have to have it all put together all the time anymore.

And what happened when that happened, when you did that?

I mean, first it was. I was terrified to talk about it and really scared that no one was gonna kind of accept me or like me or things were gonna change with my relationships. But it was almost the opposite. It was like people started telling me how much they trusted me more, how much they really appreciated me for opening up. You know, when I actually did a, you know, a podcast about this on my podcast four years ago, and it was the most downloaded episode and hundreds of essays of men were writing me afterwards saying, thank you so much for giving me permission to. To share, because I've never told anyone, and my wife of 25 years doesn't know, and this person doesn't know and all these things. I was like, wow, a lot of men don't open up about us or tell anyone. And it blew my mind. I was like, there is something wrong here that we've been conditioned as men to not open up in general, to not communicate, to not express in a healthy way what we're going through. And I remember as a kid, jj, I cried probably more than any other girl. When I was like, 4 to 8 years old, I cried all the time. When I was scared, when I hit myself, when I fall and scrape my knees, I would scream bloody murder in the middle of the night because I was so afraid sleeping alone, I'd scream for my mom, and she would come and sleep next to me and sing lullabies to me. I was super emotional and sensitive and expressive as a kid. And then, you know, when kids start to slam you in lockers for Expressing yourself or they start to call you fag or gay or little girl or whatever. You just want to fit in. So you say, okay, I can't do these things anymore. Otherwise the other kids in class aren't going to be my friend. So I'm going to start acting like them or making fun of other kids or bullying other people with them or whatever it is, just so I don't get bullied. And that was kind of like the, you know, survival defense mechanism that myself and a lot of guys face. That continues to be a pattern in their 20s and 30s. And it's hard to break that pattern until you have some type of catalyst or you're willing to look at it. And for me, that was the catalyst. For me, it was that fight and that toxic relationship.

Yeah. And it's, I'm, I'm thinking now because my husband feels so strange to say that went through something very similar where he lost his dad at, at 10 or 8 years old. Knew, yeah, it was horrible. And then he lost his mom, died of ALS over the year when he was 16. He was only the, the only kid left in the house then. He was in a super toxic marriage, just abusive, emotionally abusive, and kept all of it in until he finally just left. And then that was that catalyst. And I remember when I first met him, it was like the first, you know, second week we were dating, like maybe our fifth date. And he sat and I, we were in Austin at the JW Marriott at the fire. I remembered this clearly. And he started to cry.

Wow.

And tell me about what had really happened. And I thought, I love this man. I love this man. I will do, you know, anything for this man. He is. And it didn't make me think he was weak. I realized that this is the strongest, kindest, best man. He'd done his work, he'd gone through all that pain and you know, you look at and go, gosh, if only, you know, he chose those toxic relationships because of the pain he was in. And, and I shared something with you earlier today. We were chatting offline. I'd love to bring up, because you look at this and you know, as we is, as you said earlier, of course, emotional health and physical health are comp, you know, are tied together. You can't separate them. But you look at this and you might just think this is about emotional health. But I'd forward you that article that I went, oh my gosh, this goes so much further because it can affect your physical health by this need to be, to, to look very masculine. And make these family decisions. Let's like, let's talk about that because it was so crazy to just. I saw it this weekend when my husband was at a frat football play football thing, and he got crap for ordering quinoa.

Yeah. You know, like the. The football booze and barbecue. Right. It's kind of like the manly way. It's like, let's see how much meat we can. Processed meat.

Oh, yeah. They were having beer and sausage and, you know, Mexican food at 2am and he sipped on a tequila and, you know, had a bunch of water and had a quinoa and veggie bowl and got just. You can imagine.

I mean. I mean, after football practice, go literally in college, and we would go to Chipotle and we would. Or we would see who could eat the most. Right. First off, it's always a contest. So it's an eating contest where, you know, when you look at the. The. The hot dog eating contest in Coney island, it's like 90% of the contestants are men who are competing. It's another way to put on a mask, the athlete mask. The need to. To win, to look good, all these things. We would go after practice and we would get two double meat burritos with double wraps, and we would eat both of these burritos and be like, who's gonna finish it first? Not only who's gonna finish it first, who's gonna finish the most first? And so it's just like, you compound that over time, and it starts to have negative results, like you said. So that's like a masculine way, as opposed to eating the salad and chicken, you know, whatever it is.

Yeah.

I was just gonna ask you, what if you'd sat down with your buddies and said, you know, I'm gonna have the salad with chicken and the fajita vegetables with a little guac. What would have happened?

You would be made fun of. You'd be picked on. You'd be like, the little girl. What are you, a little girl? You eat like a girl, whatever it is. And this is why a lot of men drink alcohol. Again, I'm not saying alcohol is a bad thing or a good thing. I've never been drunk in my life because I just chose to. To not consume it because I have other vices where I have lots of sugar. And so I was like, I'm good there.

No, don't say that.

I used to have a lot of sugar. I went two months off, zero sugar a few months ago, and I lost 10 pounds. And I'm like, the leanest I've ever been. So I'm very minimal with sugar now, which is a huge.

I feel better because your book is all about that.

I know, I know. But the thing is, you know, alcohol is something that is a competition as well. Again, when you see, like, the. The movies of the frat boys, they're all competing to see how fast someone can drink and how much they can drink, it's the same thing. It's a competition to make you more manly, you're more masculine, if you can eat more or drink faster, whatever it may be. And even when I was in college, I committed to myself, to my. Which is funny. I made a bet with my siblings that I wasn't going to have a sip of alcohol again. Me needing to, like, prove and win and, like, look like I was bigger than whatever. And I didn't have a sip during my whole college experience. And as a football player, that's a really challenging thing to do because there are parties every weekend with all the football players, and there's tons of alcohol, and there's lots of people pressuring you to drink. And it was almost like they didn't know what to do with me because I wouldn't do it. So some people felt uncomfortable. They would make fun of me, all these things. And if I was susceptible to that pressure with alcohol, I would have probably just drank a lot and been gotten overweight and been unhealthy as well.

So that was a good bet to make there, Louis. Yeah.

Yeah, I should have done that with sugar.

Yeah, let's do that one now.

Exactly.

I already made notes. I'm like, sending you sugar Impact diet, sending you some of those shakes and bars. Okay. You know, in the book, you have these. All these different masks. And this is. I want to really emphasize this because, you know, I think at first blush, someone would go, oh, okay, I'm going to give this to my husband, my son, my buddy. But I actually think this is a super important book.

It's for women.

Women to really get, you know, men. Some of the. The biggest change in my life really was my ex husband, who was in my wedding, who comes and hangs out at the house and spends the night. We all do holidays together. You know, my ex husband, my new husband were. Were all a. An extended family. I'm super proud of that. But that was by really taking the time to understand him better, understand his fears, show gratitude and appreciation. I think there's so much here that women can really, like, deepen their relationship with their husbands and friends. And sons with this book. It's so key. So I'd just love to throw out to you as the last question is, we're. We're going over time, but I can't help it. What. What can women do here to support men with. With this. With their masks and really being able to, you know, step out and be more vulnerable and deal with their fears first.

First is understanding which mask the men in your life wear. Whether it's your husband, your boyfriend, your father, your son, your brother. What is the mask that they're wearing in that moment where you get frustrated with them or you feel like they're disconnected or they're guarded? So being aware of what the masks are and which one they're wearing, and then understanding why they're wearing it. So when you understand why, then.

Okay, let's go back. Wait, wait, wait. You're breaking up right here.

The most important part.

Okay, so for editor, we're gonna. We're gonna go right back to the. Answer that question, because this is like super important. Sure. Okay, here we go again.

Cool. So the first thing is to be aware of the mask that the men in your life are wearing, whether it's your. Your partner, your intimate partner, your boyfriend, your husband, your father, your brother, your son, a coworker. It's first understanding what is the mask they're wearing when they are disconnected or guarded or defensive or showing zero emotion in a situation, and then understanding why they're wearing it. So why they're wearing it. And we talk about in the book with each mask why they wear that mask, what something could have happened that was not.

And for everybody listening and you're going in just a little bit. So understanding which mask. One things you do is, you know, grab the book mask of masculinity and we'll have it in the show notes how to get that and get some cool stuff with it when you do as bonuses from Lewis. But you'll see all the different masks, understand you know more about them, so you'll be able to identify this. So the first they identify which mask is creating the issue, then what.

Yep. Understand which mask is creating issue, why that mask creates the issue. So we'll go into the research on why that mask has affected that person. And then the next thing, which is the hardest, especially if you're in an intimate relationship, is and maybe they're doing something that's been upsetting you for a long time that you wish they would stop doing is having compassion. Is having compassion not saying it's acceptable, not Saying it's okay, but just having an awareness and a compassion around it that there may be a conditioning that that man in your life has been hardwired to not change out of, to protect himself. So just having a sense of.

I think that's so key because, you know, it's like that. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

Exactly.

You know, when. When I decided it was like I was gonna do whatever it took to make peace with my ex husband and we had a very acrimonious divorce, it was like seven years of total hell.

Oh, man.

And you know, he'd done some really creepy things. I. People are like, how could you forgive that? Go by? Because it was because. And now I recognize it was because of one of these masks. And it wasn't him. It was. And so I just looked past that. I had compassion. I forgave him. And that changed everything. So having this ability to understand these masks, to understand what that is and to have that compassion and support, gosh, it's a game changer for relationships.

Game changer. And then, you know, the last thing I think is having. There's a lot of steps for women with each mask on, what you can take action on once you aware, you're aware of it. But the simple overarching example would be to sit down and have an intimate, vulnerable conversation with the men in your life that you want to have a deeper relationship with and share with them, that you want to create that safe space, create a safe space for men to feel comfortable in opening up. And maybe that's you saying once a month, I would love to sit down on Sunday afternoon at 1pm for 30 minutes and talk about the things that I've been really, you know, going through personally in, you know, my inner world that I haven't shared with you. And I would love for you to share with me anything that's upsetting you or maybe you're afraid of or something you're going through as well. For us to have that time where we know once a month or once every few weeks, whatever it may be, starting very small to get him to open up a little bit and creating a space where you will not judge him, you will not make him wrong, and you'll make him feel like you're there to listen and. And really acknowledge him for. For taking that step when he does. Because even though it may not seem like a lot to you if you do that all the time with your girlfriends, for him, he doesn't think that's acceptable. He may not think that's, you know, manly. So you just need to be aware, have that compassion and then have that acknowledgment when you, when you guys have those, those moments together.

That's fantastic. And I want to remind everybody we are going to put in the show notes. First of all, you can get the book, of course, on Amazon and all the bookstores, but we've got something special that Lewis has put together when you get the book through his site where you'll get some cool bonuses too. So we'll put all that in the show notes as well as how to, like, get a hold of all of your amazing content, podcasts, et cetera. You have a fabulous podcast. I've been fortunate to be a guest on it and gosh, it is, it is world class. So we'll have all of that in the show notes. And I want to thank you so much for taking the time out today. I know you're super busy. I so appreciate it, Louis.

This is awesome.

So now after the break, I'm going to be answering listeners questions. So stay with me.

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Welcome back. This is the time of the show where I get to answer a listener's question. And these are super fun because what I do is I have us kind of troll the Facebook and Instagram sites and see what questions have gotten asked during my Facebook lives and on my Instagram posts. So you can either go to JJ Virgin official or JJ Virgin at Instagram, JJ Virgin Official at Facebook and jump in there and participate in the community. We do a lot of cool, fun stuff, but we also, I also also grab questions off there, find things that are relevant to whichever show I'm doing, and I've got a perfect one today. I love it when the universe provides. And it's from Sarah in Richmond, Virginia. And she says, jj, I can't stand the fact that I have to make two meals every night. How do I get my husband to eat healthy and eat what I'm eating? Okay. Like you see why I just simply had to grab this question. Sarah, thank you for asking that. And the study that I was talking about that I read this morning before I got on The. The line to record this with Lewis, I was like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. Sent it over to him and went, lewis, look. And it was really about how men choose foods to be more masculine. And just like he said, with being the athletic mask and wanting to win. And I learned this early on when I was working with kids because you can't say, oh, you know, honey, I want you to eat that salmon or eat the broccoli because it'll make you healthy. They're like, huh? You know, but if you. Especially with boys and men, you know, this is how I started to work with my boys early on. And then my, you know, young men is I presented things in a way that we're going to help them be a better athlete, to perform better, to be able to be smarter. So I always put it back to something that was important to them. And so that's how I would present it with him. Is what's important there is. Is he working out at all? Is he tied to anything there that this could help him with? And that's how I've always positioned it. Because just in a vacuum or gonna be like, eh, you know, now you understand that's tied to eating meat and potatoes, steak and potatoes and a beer might be very tied to me feeling like a man. So I would recommend grabbing the book. And again, we'll have all the details in the show notes and at jjvirgin.com forward/mask, we'll have all those informations in the. In the show notes and you'll be able to get some cool extra stuff when you grab the book. But read the athletic mask and I think you'll understand more on how to present this to your husband. And then what you can do, of course, is just make sure that you're. You can always add, like, I'll make every night I make a good, clean protein, some kind of vegetable and a slow, low carb. So example might be wild rice, broccoli and wild salmon. I say that as an example because it's like. That's like standard fare at my house. And so he will have a bigger serving of wild rice than I do. I have half a cup. He might have a cup and a half. So you can do that as well. You know, make the basic dish and then add a little bit in to help with him. Alrighty. Hope that helped. Remember, jump on over onto my social accounts. Leave a question, and when they fit in well with the show, we answer them either which way, because we're all over our Social media, but we'll also throw things up on our our podcast as well. And by the way, like, thank you so much for being engaged in the podcast. Hugely appreciate it. And one of the things that the whole team appreciates, and this is our gratitude time, is the reviews that you leave. Oh my gosh. First of all, they really help other people make the decision to tune in. I figure if they tune in once, they'll probably tune in again. And so not only are you just giving us an A plus grade and we really appreciate it, but you're also helping others. So I'm going to do a little highlight here for shout out to Zora Benhamu from Spain. I'm going to Spain. That's like on my bucket list as one of the next places to go. She says easy to digest health hacks. I just discovered you JJ through Dr. Sarah Gottfried. Love her and I'm so pleased I found you. You make big concep, easy to understand and are on the top of the latest research. Your philosophy on nutrition, exercise and lifestyle are totally in line with mine. I'm sure we will collaborate one day. I love your upbeat personality and truly a fun listening to you and your awesome guests even though I'm halfway around the world in Hong Kong. Oh, you're not in Spain, you're in Hong Kong. Okay. I'm so excited to hear 90 more of your podcasts all downloaded in my phone for easy access. I have no idea how many podcasts I'm done, so I guess I've done 90 and counting. Keep up the good work and sharing your incredible health hacks and best of luck to your son in his recovery. Thank you so much, Zora. And for those of you who don't know, of course I wrote the miracle mindset about my son's traumatic brain injury in the hopes that our story can help everyone facing adversity, whether it's, you know, something like that or what we all like. It's what how we all, we all face stuff every day in life. That's just the way it is. But recently my son re injured his brain with a toxic metal, heavy metal toxicity, acute poisoning. And so we are getting him back from that. And I just say you're like a cat with nine lives. It's crazy. But, you know, never once have I looked at it. I went, oh, oh gosh. I guess, I guess that's it. It's like, all right, now what do we need to do? And we just keep peeling the onion. So, you know, never give up is my takeaway on that. And again, I want to thank you so much for joining me today. I hope that this served you well and gave you some fresh, awesome new information that you can take action on. You know, I strive to give you just the latest awesome scientifically based information and this information is super powerful when you put it into action. So that's my big mantra for today is go out there, take something you learn, put it into action and make a difference. Alrighty. See you next time. Bye.

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This is Anne Boeckle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next reading. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.