The Mediterranean Method with Steven Masley, MD

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Sprite obey your thirst well, randomized clinical trials have shown that if you follow a Mediterranean diet, you have less heart attacks and less stroke, your cholesterol profile improves, your blood pressure gets better and your blood sugar gets better.

Here's jj, Virgin Triple board certified nutrition and fitness expert and four time New.

York Times best selling author. It's time to reignite wellness.

What do you think is the healthiest diet in the world? If you had to pick one, just one, one diet. Got any ideas? Well, I have the answer today. It's coming. It's coming. But not yet, not yet. I'm going to tell you all about my guest. We're going to be talking about the healthiest diet in the world and how it just even got healthier and easy to do. And I've got my buddy, Dr. Steven Masley. He is a physician, nutritionist and professionally trained chef. What's super cool, I actually met him taking my certified nutrition specialist degree and we've been pals ever since now for like gosh, 10, 12, 15 years probably. He created the top number one all time health program for public television, the 30 Day Heart Tune Up. He also wrote Smart Fats and the Better Brain Solution. He's been viewed by millions on PBS, Discovery Channel with his 10 years younger program and over 700 media interviews. And all right, this is going to give it away but we are going to dive into this, deconstruct it and tell you why. His new book is called the Mediterranean Method. And I am like ridiculously excited about this book. It's probably out if you're listening to this, but we also have something super cool to give you to go along with it. So if you go to jjvirgin.com forward/med method, med method, you will be able to get a kitchen guide where Dr. Steven will give you what you need to use in your kitchen to be able to make these recipes with ease. He makes amazing food. I've been over to his house with him cooking quite a few times. It's one of those times when you get invited, you always, the answer is always yes, yes I will. And so great recipes. In fact, I tested some of the recipes with them for this book. Unbelievably delicious. I am super excited about that. Now before we dive into the interview, I want to do a shout out to Sweaty Teacher. Okay. Sweaty Teacher. Sweaty Teacher. Five star review says. Thank goodness. I have been looking for an informative podcast on health and nutrition. With this level of intelligence and honesty, the topics are up to date, easily applicable, and not a blatant sales pitch. Her guests are real experts in their fields. Thank you so much for providing this podcast. Well darn straight on. They are amazing experts. Today of course is no different. Now I will tell you that we are going to do a little like fave of mine coming up next. Maybe maybe not a bit of a sales pitch. So. I heard that one. Ah yeah, we actually don't. We do. What I like to do in my podcasts is always do. By the way, three podcasts a week and if you aren't subscribed, you can make it simple. Just go to subscribetoj.com but what we do is one amazing expert interview with one of my pals and I have some of the coolest, smartest friends on the planet. I always think that the way that you get smarter is hang out with smarter people and then I do a deep dive on a topic you want to know about on my own. And then on Friday I do Friday Q A. And then on each each podcast I also bring up a couple of my favorite things that I love. And if you want to grab those, it supports the podcast. So there you go. Totally up to you. So I'm going to share with you one of those faves. Then we're going to deep dive into this new skinny twist on the Mediterranean diet. So stick with me.

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Dr. Steven Masley, welcome to the show. Super excited to have you back.

I'm delighted to be back with you.

Well, I gotta tell you, I mean, first of all, I feel so fortunate because I got the ultimate sneak peek to your new book, having you cook one of the trial recipes for me. So I feel so fortunate there. But I think this is gonna be your biggest hit yet and that's saying a lot after the 30 day heart tune up and what that did on PBS.

This, you know, the Mediterranean diet is rated by the US World Report as the number one diet on the planet and you know, for 2019. And there's good reason because it's great for your heart, prevents memory loss, it extends your lifespan. And it was, they rated it as the best weight loss diet if you're looking at one year results, best diet to follow. So, I mean, there's so much going for it, let alone that the food's delicious.

Right. And so for someone who may not know exactly what it is, because I think when people hear about the Mediterranean diet, if you were going to ask them, they'd probably say, oh, that's olive oil. What exactly is the Mediterranean diet?

Well, olive oil is a good start because that is the predominant oil you're going to use. But there's a huge variety. That's what's really cool. It's a mixture of recipes from Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Israel, North Africa. But it really focuses on using colorful produce, especially fresh local fruit and vegetables, beans and nuts, clean protein like poultry, and lots of seafood. Predominantly cooking with extra virgin olive oil using an abundance of herbs and spices. And you get some red wine and dark chocolate with it, too.

All right, what's not to love? Like, come on. It is. If I had to pick. If you said for the rest of your life, jj, you can only Eat based on one diet, hands down, no doubt it would be this. And I know in my travels, like when I'm in the, you know, the Italian Riviera or, gosh, Istanbul, and when I was in Santorini, you just feel great. I mean, it's the most amazing food. So for those people who are like, okay, great, this means that I can then eat loads of bread. And I'm trying to think of what are the things people probably think are part of the Mediterranean diet that may not be. I mean, if they're thinking of Italy or France, they might think you're loading up on pasta and bread.

Yeah, well, really good point. I mean, I think one of the myths is if you're eating Mediterranean, you get to have lots of pizza and pasta and bread. That's really not how it's intended, especially for people in this 21st century. We're not nearly as active today as we were, say, 50 years ago when we first started researching the Mediterranean diet. Back then, it was mostly a diet for farmers, for herders, goat herders, fishermen. I mean, they were active 8, 10 hours a day. And probably if you're active physically 8, 10 hours a day, you could eat more bread and pasta. But today, that's really not going to set well on people who are struggling to get seven hours of activity a week. So really, I think the 21st century version of the Mediterranean diet has to cut down on that glycemic load, the sugar load that we get, especially from flour. It's got to go along with sugar.

Yeah. And I know when we were sitting here, like, if you, you know, if you were looking at the Mediterranean diet, what would you cut out we're going to get? But as you were saying that, I was thinking about when I was in Santorini and we decided we heard about this amazing restaurant down at the pier, and we were staying up in the hill in this place called Oia. So we walked all the way down. Now, people were taking donkeys to go down to this restaurant, and more importantly, they were taking the donkeys to go back up. But we were like, we're not doing that. Like, we're gonna walk down there and walk back up. Which was very treacherous at night with all the donkey having gone. Yeah, donkey doo doo. I was like, well, you know, there are no lights on these stairs and there were a lot of donkeys here. But, you know, you look at just again, being in Istanbul and all these, like, all those places have hills. You're walking, you're moving around. So there is that component of us just being a lot more active. I know you were in Europe all summer. I just got back from the UK and Iceland and we just were flat out like so much more active. So I wish we could say, okay, the Mediterranean diet really means these foods and this amount of activity, because I think that is a key, important part of it. But if we could just pull the diet piece out because you started to mention some of the health benefits. Let's really roll through some of those health benefits and the science behind it. Like what have the studies been showing?

Well, randomized clinical trials have shown that if you follow a Mediterranean diet, you have less heart attacks and less stroke, your cholesterol profile improves, your blood pressure gets better and your blood sugar gets better, that it helps prevent diabetes. That when they randomize people to that Mediterranean diet, not only did they diminish dementia and cognitive decline, but their cognitive function actually got better. They were mentally sharper. And when they've done studies and looked at the one year results from weight loss one year studies. So really long term success, Mediterranean diet came out tied with the paleo diet for weight loss and it blew the low fat diet out of the water for long term.

Well, and there's some yummy things. Like I always say I'm paleo plus, which actually just means I Mediterranean diet because I like to eat the beans. Like, don't you think beans are probably one of the biggest superstars of this diet?

Oh, absolutely. They eat beans multiple times per week, if not every day. I mean, it's important to their fiber, their protein. They have the highest oxidation antioxidation scores or X scores on the planet. There's no food that does as good a job as blocking oxidation. That means like internal residue.

I didn't know that.

I didn't know that.

That's crazy.

Yeah. Black beans, kidney beans, lentils, all of them. They're off the char when it comes to stopping oxidation in the body. And they're loaded in fiber and B vitamins and calcium and I mean, what's not to like of it? Now I'll Admit there's probably 5, 10% of people who are lectin intolerant. You know, so sprouting them and soaking them and cooking them for a longer period of time helps. But if you're really intolerant. Yes, I'd give them up, but I would say 85% of people tolerate beans just fine.

So the people who are lectin intolerant, how would they know? They just would feel big gassy discomfort or gassy Discomfort.

I mean, anybody. I mean, here's the sad reality in the US that oftentimes people will eat beans in excess, like two bowls of chili, and they'll eat them once a month and they get really gassy.

Well, they probably had a lot of beer and some wings with it too, probably.

But the goal is to eat little bits regularly, and that really does make a difference. You build up enzymes and you tolerate them.

Yeah, that was a great hack that, that our buddy, Dr. Alan Christianson gave me when I wrote Sugar Impact Diet and said, okay, have beans. He goes, just have a tablespoon or two every day and condition your gut. Then you'll be able to handle them.

Yes, exactly.

So what were you going to say?

Just that.

Just that.

Start with a couple tablespoons, maybe work up to a quarter cup, have them every day. And there's actually studies you had to have a roommate and they kept track of in the study. And those people who ate beans every day for a month had less gas at the end than they started with.

Well, there's a rotten job to have. If you heard. It's like, wow, that's a hilarious study. Any other big benefits and what else are like, When I think of the big rock stars of this diet, I would assume it's the fish, the legumes, all the vegetables and the olive oil are probably the things that are the most important, right?

Those are big ones. Yeah. I think red wine is a minor player. It's really important, but I'm not gonna put it up there as important as your green leafy vegetables. But yeah, red wine adds some benefit. Chocolate has become a big part of Mediterranean lifestyle. So dark chocolate, those are all. And olives for an appetizer. It's hard to go wrong with a diet.

Like, what's so great? And everything you've just said is, there's nothing weird there. There's nothing where you're gonna go, oh, my gosh, okay, now you gotta go find this ingredient, build up a taste for it. Cause I know it's a little off the charts. Like, you know, if I said, all right, now you're gonna be eating some kimchi, sauerkraut and some sprouts every day. And you'd be like, you know, so what about that? Like, for following this diet, how have you found it in terms of using it with your patients, being able to be compliant on it?

Well, that's maybe one of the biggest benefits when they've looked long term at following a Mediterranean diet has the highest compliance of any diet. Ever offered. You're not having to cut out any major food groups. It's not like you're saying low carb or low fat or none of this or none of that. You know, there's. I mean, yes, you're not supposed to eat processed food. It's supposed to be real food, but there's not restrictions on, you know, if it's a holiday, you can have a festivity and live it up. The goal is to be in good enough health so you can just have fun once in a while. I mean, obviously, if someone has a food allergy, they shouldn't ignore that. I don't mean don't stick. If you've proven that you're intolerant of something, stay away from it. But otherwise, a Mediterranean diet, it doesn't eliminate entire food groups. And the food's delicious. It's generally simple and easy to prepare the recipes, so it makes it easy to stick with.

Now, you and I remember you asked me the question, hey, if you were going to modify the Mediterranean diet, what would you do? And I'm like, blah. You know, and you were like, that's it. And so you've done a twist on this Mediterranean diet. This is why I think like, this, to me makes so much sense as just a way, you know, we always talk about diets should be a lifestyle, but yet it's some restrictive thing that could never possibly be a lifestyle. Right. But this truly could. And with the twist you've made on it, you've really, like, brought it into the 21st century. So let's talk about what you've done to, like, upgrade it.

Well, the skinny twist on a Mediterranean diet is really to decrease the sugar load, the glycemic load, because that's the, you know, if you did anything wrong with this diet, it would be too much bread, too much pasta, too much pizza. You could potentially ruin it with too much sugar and flour. So I really dialed back on the glycemic load, the sugar load, and the flour load. So if you were to have pasta, then it's a tiny portion. In Italy, it's changing gradually, but traditionally it's been, you get this little salad plate, and there's maybe three top four twirls of pasta with this wonderful marinara sauce. And it wasn't this giant platter of pasta. So a couple times a week, if you had pasta, you're just having a taste and you're having as an appetizer, and then you have your main course with vegetables and protein and then some berries for Dessert and obviously with a little red wine on the way. So that's a very different way of approaching pasta or rice or anything else to think of it. Rice would be in a little tiny teacup portion or skip it. So my twist is a skinny twist, and that is a low sugar load, glycemic load for it. And I think it makes a ton of sense.

Totally. And you know what else it does? It takes out the trigger foods. The foods that we do tend to lose it on where no one's going to sit down. I've never heard anyone say, oh, my gosh, I lost my mind on that salmon. Or I really pigged out on those lentils. Or I so overate on that broccoli, I hate myself. Right? I mean, you're not hearing that or, man, I drank way too much olive oil last night. I mean, it's not happening. So it's like they are naturally satiating and you don't overeat on them. But that is not the case with some great bread or pasta or anything else. I mean, that's where we could easily. Those are great trigger foods. So it sounds like what you really did was take the potential trigger foods out or severely limit them. And what I would advise people is, you know, your triggers. Like, too much healthy food's unhealthy. So if you're the person who has a little bit of some kind of pasta, even if it's lentil pasta, and lose your mind, then, you know, knock it off. Right?

Yeah. Well, you'd like. This is kind of like the virgin diet version of the Mediterranean diet.

I love it. Now, beyond that, and again, I know you just spent a lot of time doing research. Right. Over in. Over in Europe. You have such a rotten job, Stephen. It's like, I feel so sorry for you. I know. Where were you this past summer?

So this summer, my wife and I sailed from Spain to Turkey. So up the Spanish Mediterranean coast, across southern France, around Corsica, down Italy, touched Sicily. Sicily cut across the Italian toe and boot on the south end, went down the west coast of Greece, across the middle of the islands to Turkey. And then after seven months, we left our boat. So we were looking for regional local delic dishes that I could write recipes with and tried to answer questions as they came up. Like, why did Spain just overtake Japan as the longest living country on the planet? Why are French so slim and trim and they don't have the lowest obesity rate in Europe? Why did the Italians get to eat pasta without gaining weight? I mean, it was between picking up local recipes and exploring some of these things that was. I had to keep pinching myself that I was really getting to do this.

So beyond the food part of it, and maybe some of it is even the traditions around the food, because I know that when I'm in Europe, and it is sadly starting to change, but I remember the first few times I'd gone to Europe, I didn't see anyone walking down the street eating anything. Like, no one was walking and eating anywhere.

That's pretty rare still. So, I mean, the exception in summertime and on vacation in the summer, you might see someone with gelato or ice cream or something like that. But generally speaking, you're saying something that's really culturally true, that the French, the Spanish, the Italians, they don't snack.

Yeah, they don't snack. They have meals and they have meals. They take time for meals.

Right. And it's a leisurely meal with people. There's no, there's, you know, there's no phone here. You know, I mean, I'm not trying to, you know, talk on my phone and eat at the same time. They don't watch television. They're not on their computer. They're with people. And for example, I would try to. I'm cooking in the kitchen when the mechanic's on the boat for the boat. And I said, hey, do you want to try this recipe? I just tried something. And he's like, well, no, I can't. I don't have time to sit down and have a whole meal with you. I'd love to, but I'm not. They don't just take a snack.

Yeah.

And generally you don't see people walking on the streets. When we've had European cousins come stay with us as kids, they lost weight because we would say, okay, there's nuts on the counter, there's fruit over here. Eat when you want. And if we didn't sit at the table with them, they didn't eat. And there's a lot to be said.

Over that kind of thing. That is huge. Yeah, huge. So, I mean, that was one of the biggest things I noticed is like, wow, you actually sat down and had meals and everyone. That's what you did. You didn't watch tv, you didn't read a book, you didn't do your. You sat down with other people slowly and ate meals. And it wasn't loads of plates. It was a little bit of food. And then you took a break and then you had a little bit more. It was like this long, drawn out thing where you ate Less food than most of us would eat on the run. Rushing around. So.

So, yeah, isn't that amazing? So, yes, you might have three different plates of food in a leisurely fashion, spread out. So first you might have a soup or a salad, and then you might have your main course, and then you'd have fruit for dessert. And you sit and chat and talk through the whole thing. You know, it's. And yes, we're talking. If you go to a restaurant, it's always an hour and a half. There's no 30.

Yeah. No, there's no express meal. I am sad to see, though, like, all these terrible fast food restaurants that we are just, you know, it's like, so, ugh. Hopefully they'll be able to hold onto those traditions. So beyond that, what else do you see there? Because you really got to spend a lot of time and get indoctrinated that we could put in. Because I think when we look at this Mediterranean diet, it's more than the food.

Yes, absolutely. So when you think about it, like we talked about activity, they're very active, and they're not active like going to a gym. They're much more likely to be social. Two or three women or men will go for a bike ride, that they'll go for a walk together. And they're oftentimes outdoors in nature. So not only are they having more minutes of activity per week, and not only do they walk to the grocery store every day, which is active, but they're with nature a lot. They sit outside to eat meals, they go to parks. They go where it's beautiful, they watch the sunset. I mean, so nature, activity. And then they have this community bonding, like, over food. So they're very much into shopping most days, cooking together. It's not like someone's slaving in the store by themselves. The family gets together in the kitchen when food's being prepared, and then you eat it in a social community way. So between activity and nature and freedom from devices over food time and, you know, so they've got several things that help manage their stress and make them calm. And there's a lot to be said for that.

Now, here's the other piece of that that you just said that I think is interesting is that they grocery shop every day. And that's what I noticed too, is that, you know, people, and not so much in the uk I noticed this much more in France and Italy and Greece and Turkey is that they would just get a little bit of fresh food every day versus, like, you know, so we're sitting here trying to find foods with long shelf lives, which is not what you want, you know, so that was the other key thing, is making fresh food. And you want fresh. You want food that I had a great nutrition mentor who once said, you know, you want competition for your food. If your food is a long shelf life and bugs aren't touching it, there's a problem here, right? So good, clean, fresh food spoils and.

They don't use any preservatives. And when they do buy bread, it's. It's hard as a brick the next day. There's no chemicals in it to make it last. You know, it's. So it's. And then you're eating much more in season. And they're much more likely to eat, you know, seasonal fruit. That's local too, or vegetables. I mean, it's what's grown in their community. So that has benefits way beyond just our personal health, but for the planet as well.

Yeah, that whole idea. Another one I was taught early on, and I'm like this, we've so gotten away from this in the US where you have stuff flown in from all over the place. Well, God forbid, we couldn't have our grapes all year round in our bananas and all that. But to eat seasonal, local, organic, so that your diet varies naturally throughout the year, which is also important. So all key, cool, important things. So I've had the good fortune on multiple occasions to cook with you, but more often I'm standing there handing you a spoon. So let's be honest, watching you, because here you are, you're an MD and a chef and a nutritionist. Like the trifecta out there. I know you're going to be giving all of us a kitchen guide that will go along with this book. Do you know what you're doing in there with us? Can you give us a little insider?

I wanted to come up with what are the tools I use in my kitchen? I thought what would be really helpful if you're trying to get a jump start on using Mediterranean foods, what tools do you need? I tried to keep it simple. My kitchen here, I've got a lot of gadgets, but when I'm on the boat, which is half the year now, I don't have that much space. So what are the bare minimum tools you need to make fantastic food? So I put in my bare minimum list and a little more things for when I'm at home. But also, what ingredients do I keep on the boat and at home? If I looked at both places I live One in Europe on a little boat with not much storage here with a lot of covers in a pantry. What are those ingredients I always have on hand so that you could get those? And it's so much easier to cook when you know what things to have and when you go to the store. Kind of a mental checklist. I got to get a, B and C. I was thinking that would be the simplest thing to give people a jumpstart to following a Mediterranean lifestyle.

Well, we love checklists. So now it doesn't have to be a mental checklist. You can take the guide and you'll be able to get that@jjvirgin.com MedMethod that's for Mediterranean method. That's the book. So you'll be able to get the guide, you'll be able to get a link to the book because I know you also have some cooking videos that are going to go along with the book. So all sorts of of cool stuff that will make it easy to put this into practice. And again, if you had to pick one way to eat for the rest of your life, you know, I use the Virgin diet to figure out which foods work for you and which foods don't and Sugar impact diet to help you get the sugar out of your diet and keep it from sneaking in. And then. But those are not meant to be long term. Those are meant to be discovery diets. This is what it's moving you towards. So I was super excited. Again, I think, like, this is going to be your biggest, your biggest hit to date, which is saying a lot. And I honestly can't believe no one's done this yet when you told them, like, why hasn't this been done yet? So thank you for doing it. I also know that your recipes are always amazing. So you've got recipes in the book too, right?

Absolutely. 50. And this book actually comes with photos, you know, so you can actually look at them. You know, 20 photos, you know, like for a coffee table, like, setting.

Oh, nice.

Along with 50 of my favorite Mediterranean recipes.

Fabulous. Awesome. Cool. Now, after the break, I am going to give you a couple things, a couple key takeaways from today that you can put into immediate action. So stay with me.

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Welcome back. All right, so this is where I give you top takeaways and we are going to put it into action. You know, it's like all this cool stuff with nothing, you know, and you don't do anything with it is like, so want to make sure that you do. There were a lot of takeaways during today's talk, and so I want to give you a couple things to think about. One of the things I loved that Stephen brought up was this concept of eating regionally and seasonally, locally, so meaning that, you know, if blueberries are fresh and in season where you're at, enjoy blueberries. If broccoli's in season, great. If they're flying it in from across the world, you know, skip it on over. So this is where you really do want to go to the local farmers markets or join a collective and make sure that you're getting whatever is fresh and local. I'm loving what's happening in a lot of the local health food stores. I know here in Tampa, where I am now a resident at both our Whole Foods and our Sprouts markets, they have local, seasonal produce. Awesome. So that's the first one is eat local and seasonal. Now the next one is really around timing and what you heard and what is always amazing to me. And I just. Whenever I'm in Europe, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna slow down. I'm gonna take more time with meals. We do at home do this. I was gonna say we do do this. I was trying to avoid the doo doo, but I just did it anyway. We do do this at home every night. It's now a ritual for my husband and I to shut down the computer, stop working. And this is one of the things when you work at home is you can just keep working all night. So we shut it on down, and we pour a glass of dry farm wines. Shout out Todd and David, and we make a really amazing dinner. And generally, our typical dinners are some kind of great vegetable, a little bit of a clean protein. We do a lot of our clean proteins from Vital Choice and Butcherbox. And then some kind of a slow, low carb.

Carb.

This is a simple. A simple one here would be some wild salmon and then some broccoli and then some lentils. I mean, simple. Using olive oil as your way to make everything taste a little bit better. A total Mediterranean treat. And then we always have a little bit of dark chocolate. So, I mean, we are absolutely living this kind of Mediterranean. Where I always said I was Paleo plus is I like to throw some legumes in. So there you have it. Take some time with your meals. Slow down and think about if you put one thing into place right now. It would be awesome of making that decision that I'm not going to walk and eat. That when I if I'm going to eat, it's going to be a meal and I'm going to sit down so that you really take your time with that, that you're not walking and eating. I'm making this vow with you too, because I will tell you what I'm tending to do more of now is eat a late breakfast and early dinner and then kind of a bar in between. But that means a lot of times I'm sort of hooked on my new keto bars and I've been eating them like while driving, which is such a no, no. Bad jj. So I'm gonna work on that too. All right, so I mentioned the kitchen guide that Dr. Steven Masley has. Well, so link to the Mediterranean method book so you can learn how to grab that and get the cool videos that he's done or showing how he's making some of these recipes. I'll also link to my buddies over at Dry Farm Wines and Vital Choice and Butcherbox, so you have all of those options available so that you can really store stock up on great stuff. Thrive Markets, another great resource. You know, it's like it is so much easier now than it used to be to eat healthy. And that's really it. Like when Stephen talked about how easy the diet is, it's got to be right, it's got to be easy, it's got to be economical. Otherwise we're out out. So it's really easy to do these things well. So again, I'll put all of that@jjvirgin.com forward slash med method. Med method. And one more thing, if you've not yet left a review, I would love, love, love to shout you out. If you've noticed, at the beginning of each show I do a shout out, so I'd love that to be you. Be sure to include your name in the review. We get some very funny names here, like Sweaty Teacher. So leave a Review Subscribe Share this with your pals. My big goal is to help a billion people get healthy and obviously I need some help with that. So thank you in advance and I'll see you next time. Bye.

Foreign.

Hello listeners, this is Ann Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading, though. Next Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And, of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now, wherever you're listening to this podcast, and Visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.