The Power of Being Unfocused with Dr. Srini Pillay

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Hey, it's JJ Virgin and welcome to the JJ Virgin Lifestyle show. I'm thinking of calling this show Breakthroughs, you know, because what I realize is what we're doing here is really helping you break through blocks, whether they're food intolerance, sugar cravings or like today mindset stuff. And especially some of the things that can get in the way of you, like getting your healthiest life on. And I am really excited about this topic today. We're renaming this one. I'll tell you about a little bit and you'll understand why in a moment. But I have got someone who is just so dear to me. I met him I think five years ago maybe in New York City. I was invited to this networking dinner with Ramit Sethi and Michael Fishman and this guy, and this guy was sitting across from me and very flamboyant Indian guy with a lot of rings, bright clothing and I'm like who the heck is this guy? I didn't know anything about him and he's drinking a martini and we just became fast friends. I find out he's a world renowned Harvard trained psychiatrist and brain imaging researcher. He is unbelievable and hilarious and talented and super entertaining as well. And if you ever get a chance to watch him, he's been on a lot of the brain training live cast that my buddy John Assaraf does. But he is known as the guy who applies the doctor Rather who applies brain science to everyday psychological challenges to help people deal with stress, anxiety, productivity and time management. Now he has got a totally different take on things and there were a lot of ahas that were happening as we were talking during this interview because he believes in the power of being unfocused. And you're going to hear in a minute what when the Italians bought his book and published it in Italy, what they called this book, which I think is totally suiting. But we're going to talk about how being unfocused can Actually help you be healthier. Yep, you heard me right. So I'm super excited to welcome Dr. Srini Pillay to the show today. All right, let's do it. Dr. Srini Pillay, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here with me today.

Thanks so much for having me. It's really great to be on.

Okay, so this is super fun because prior to us turning on the recording, you told me the name of your new book. You've got this new book out, and it's Tinker Dabble Doodle Try Unlock the Power of the Unfocused Mind, which, knowing you, is like the perfect book for you. But then you're telling me that it's been published in all these different languages and. And then you told me the title of it in Italy, which we're going to do with a bleep. But I'm like, okay, this is so good. So maybe we should. I know today's topic. We were going to talk about how your brain can only take so much focus. But I'm going to say that today's topic is the Power of. And bear with me, because this is what it was in Italy, the power of effing around.

That's right.

All right.

Yeah. I think it was just such a nice interpretation of. Of the fact that when we have this off time, we don't really know what to do with it in a way that can really advance our lives. And that's really what the book is about.

Well, I love this because I always feel so guilty when I'm off fooling around instead of getting stuff done. I'm like, I didn't get anything accomplished and I wasn't focused and I'm like, beating myself up. But you're actually telling us that in terms of, let's say, health, that, you know, I tell people, okay, if you want, you've got your. If you want to do this, if you want to lose the weight, we got to set your goals and you got to focus. And you're. You're actually saying, and I love that you're being controversial here. And it doesn't surprise me that you're being controversial here, Srini. But you're telling. You're saying that that focus could be problematic. So, like, how is that?

Well, you know, in a couple of different ways. So the first thing is that most people live their days with sort of focus, focus, focus, fatigue. And what that means is that they're not operating with their optimal brain capacity. And what I'm asking people to do in the book is to re energize themselves between periods of focus and in those periods of unfocused, do things that have been proven to re energize the brain. So the first problem is that focus can drain the brain of energy. The second problem is that focus can actually make you have blinker vision so that you can't really see things, competition coming at you. If you're an entrepreneur, you can't really see what's going on around you. And so you have a very narrow view of the world. In addition to that, you can't really see what's coming at you in the future. So you're not able to predict things in your life as well. And so these, these three things, I think, limit our opportunities in the world. And if we can build in what I call cognitive rhythm, which is focus and unfocused into our days at critical times of the day, we are much more likely to re energize our brains. And really what I say to people is, there's a quick start to this. Identify the times in your day when you're going to have a slump anyway, which would be for a lot of people, mid morning, directly after lunch, mid afternoon, and then at the end of the day. And if during those times you would just be completely fatigued, learn some of these techniques and so that you can re energize your brain and activate your brain to become even more creative with solutions.

So these periods of being unfocused, like I'm trying to picture this, like I'm trying to picture out, like how I focus on being unfocused. But so like, okay, so how is.

This good for us?

It sounds like it re energizes our brain. And is there anything else? And then how, I mean, how do we actually unfocus? Do I just like play, like, go get on Facebook, like, what am I doing during unfocused?

I'll tell you what this has to do with. So for a lot of people, when it comes to health goals or business goals, they have these great strategies and they believe that these strategies are going to work. But what a lot of people don't realize is that in the brain, about 90 to 98% of mental activity is unconscious. So most people are just using this 2% of the brain to get to their goals. And, and what I'm teaching you in the book is how to activate this unconscious. Because when strategy is a lot like a plant. And the plant takes its roots in the unconscious, in the brain. And by Learning how to actually till the soil of the unconscious, you can actually energize your strategy. Because sometimes strategies don't last. Sometimes they don't really have the oomph you want them to have. But if you learn how to plant these strategies in the unconscious properly, you can actually get to your goals. So I'll give you a simple example of this. Take daydreaming, for example. So a lot of people feel like daydreaming is a negative thing. And it really can be. If you slip into a daydream, it's like falling off a cliff. Or if you have this guilty, dysphoric daydreaming where you're just guilty about something that you did, that doesn't help either. Metaphorically, what you want to do is if you're jumping off the cliff, you want to have a parachute. And so Jerome Singer, who has studied daydreaming for more than 50 years, has actually, actually since the 1950s, has actually taught us that there's a type of daydreaming called positive constructive daydreaming, or pcd, which, which has three differences from just slipping into a daydream. The first is you can plan it so in that time when you're having a slump, you can plan the daydream for 10 or 15 minutes. The second is that you start daydreaming with a playful or wishful image. So you imagine yourself lying on a yacht or you imagine yourself running through the woods with your dogs. Whatever feels playful and wishful for you will get this unfocused brain started. And then the third thing is when you're daydreaming, studies have shown that it is much more effective if you're doing a low key activity like gardening and a low key activity like, like knitting. And when you're engaged in this activity, these three things, planning it, having a playful or wishful image and doing it with a low key activity will actually allow your brain to make many more connections and find creative solutions for you. So one of the questions that you asked was, what else does this do besides re energize my brain? And what I'll say is it helps you become more creative. It actually also helps focus when focus comes back on, and it also helps you predict the future. Now, when you have a strategy, let's say you've got a health strategy, you've got a business strategy, and you're trying to figure out how do I really make this work? Well, we all know that you've got to be super motivated to make this work because it's not easy to find solutions. Well, to be motivated, all of yourself has got to be engaged. Now, when you're focused, the parts of yourself that are engaged are the parts that you can pick up with a fork. Things like metaphorically. So things like what your age is or where you live, the more obvious things about you. But when the brain goes into unfocused mode, and we can talk about a lot of other ways you can do this, when your brain goes into unfocused mode, what happens is other parts of yourself come to the table. So the brain metaphorically invites a spoon to pick up the delicious melange of flavors of your identity. So, like the scent of your grandmother, which may have no real relevance to your business plan, but when this is integrated and it's online in your brain, it adds to your sense of self. Then it invites chopsticks to the table, which connect ideas across the brain, and as a result, you have more creative solutions. And it also invites things like a marrow spoon, which goes into all the nooks and crannies in your brain and picks up memories that focus could never find. So all of a sudden, you actually have a much more integrated and motivated and engaged sense of self that can take you to your goals. And so one of the main reasons I ask people to do these things. And aside from positive, constructive daydreaming in the book, there are some very simple things, like if you actually sleep for 10 minutes, if you nap for 10 minutes, it can increase your clarity. If you nap for 90 minutes, it can increase your creativity. So by knowing these little things, you can build this into your day. And right now, I'm also actually offering an app, which it's a desktop app that allows you to schedule as much unfocused time as you want on as many days as you want. And it will do this automatically. It will find a space in your calendar so that you're not booked back to back, and it will add this unfocused activity. And if any of these things sound a little complex, and I don't think they're that complex, but, you know, napping for 10 minutes, napping for 90 minutes, positive, constructive daydreaming. Other things we know is that walking can actually be a great form of unfocused activity. And studies have shown that if you walk along an unstructured path, you're much more likely to be creative than if you walk in a plain rectangle or in something that's very linear.

This is crazy stuff, I gotta tell you. As I'm listening to this because I'm thinking, first of all, I've never had one brilliant idea at my desk. Never once, never has happened. But all my best ideas, in fact, I used to live in Fort Lauderdale, and I used to go rollerblading around this, you know, park, and I would have so many ideas that I would have to pull out my phone and record everything, because it was just like this flood, right? But all my best ideas happen when I'm out hiking, working out. That's when it all comes. It's never, ever sitting at the desk. And that's just exactly what you just described. And I think what the app would be great for is it doesn't. I mean, none of this stuff sounds complicated. It just sounds like it's not a habit. We're so built into getting stuff, it's focused and staying. This is like the antithesis of what we've all been taught, and it's crushing our creativity. From what you're telling me.

Yes, absolutely. In fact, you know, one of the things I actually recommend is doodling. So people often think, you know, at school, teachers are always screaming at people saying, pay attention. Stop doodling. Well, there's been a study that's shown that doodling can improve your memory by 29%.

Wow.

So in the study, they took two groups of people and they had them listen to a telephone call, after which they had to remember the names of eight people and places. And the group that doodled while they were listening remembered 29% more than the group that did not doodle. And that's because when you're doodling, your brain is less like a stiff sponge. It's actually much more relaxed, and it can pick up information much more easily.

You know, one of the things Grant did after the accident, you know, he had severe traumatic brain injury. My son Grant is. He started doing art. He'd never done art before. All these, like. I mean, we have all these art boards all over the house of him drawing this stuff. And, you know, it's just one of those things I think he intuitively, he just was like this. I need to do so really interesting stuff. And it makes me think of when I went to 40 years of Zen with Dave Asprey, and we were doing these things to raise our alpha brain waves, which raise creativity. And, you know, the first day, all you're doing is messing around to figure out, like, how it works, and they don't give you any instruction. So I'm doing my typical left brain JJ stuff, and I am making less than I'm doing and I am sinking my alpha brain waves lower and lower. Like, I was like, okay, well, I'm really good at lowering them, which is not the goal. But, you know, the only way I could get those things to go up was to stop focusing on it. And that's what they were like. You got to stop, just go into the tones. Don't focus on. And I was like, wow, it's everything you're saying.

Yeah, exactly. You know, and I want to make clear that I think like you, I definitely believe that some amount of focus is important and that we can all learn to focus more and focus more effectively. But doing this without unfocusing can really compromise our full capacity. I'll give you a really cool example of this, which is dabbling, which was Einstein and Picasso. Both existed around the same time. And Einstein had a think tank where he would listen to the mathematical theories of Poincare. So even though he wasn't a mathematician per se, he would listen to these theories. And Poincare developed all of these theories up until he could not find any data to support anything further. Einstein, on seeing Poincare's theories, asked, what's possible? He didn't need the data, he just asked, well, what else could I be doing? And extended this and discovered the theory of relativity by looking at a field completely different from his own. At the same time, Picasso also had this group of avant garde literati, a group of people we hung out with and talked about things. And he also heard about these great theories of Poincare. So when he started to hear about the mathematics of Poincare, he made a connection to his art and actually drew a picture that depicted a woman in two different dimensions, represented the fourth dimension. And this actually created a whole movement in cubist art, indicating that when you dabble in fields outside of your own, you can find some really cool ideas that can connect with what you're doing.

I was just thinking about, I just spent some time with Naveen Jain, who's created this biome test and he's a billionaire that's created businesses in all these different industries. Never the same industry, because he says, you will get the best ideas. Like, you know, when we are too entrenched in our industry, we'll never get these great ideas. We're like already entrenched. He goes, so I look for people outside the industry to bring the ideas in.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the way that you can apply this to everyday life is think of hobbies. You know, studies have shown that people who have these hobbies actually do perform better at their primary tasks, with one caveat. You have to start thinking about how the hobby relates to what you're doing. So for me, for example, I'm not a great tennis player, but I love playing tennis. And when I'm playing tennis, I'm always thinking about strategy. I'm thinking about my mindset, I'm thinking about how I'm going to change stuff, and then I take it and apply it to the work that I'm doing. Similarly, I think if you have a hobby, figuring out a way in which this hobby. It's like when you're lifting weights and you're thinking, what do I do when I'm lifting to fatigue versus lifting to failure? And what's the space between fatigue and failure? And how can I apply this to my business strategy? It's thinking across different fields that can really be helpful.

So you mentioned a couple things, but looking at, okay, you've talked about this, what I'd love to know is how is this going to help me get healthier and what can I do to apply it? Like, what would be the things right now I'm listening, and let's say that I'm going to go on the virgin diet.

I'm someone listening.

I'm like, I'm going to go like, how would I use these concepts to get better results?

So a couple different things. The first thing is what I call possibility thinking, which is if you're going to go on the virgin diet, tell yourself that no matter what you think, the challenges will be in the way that this is possible. And studies show that when you use possibility thinking, which is just recognize that something is possible. There have been many people who've gone on the virgin diet who've actually succeeded. Once you register this, it increases the dopamine in your brain, activates the reward pathways, and also increases your natural opioids so that you're far less stressed. Which means when you're starting on the diet, rather than being freaked out and then making some big error, then falling off the wagon, you're going to start by using possibility thinking, a form of unfocused, to actually get you started. Once that happens, you use what I call the biology of imagination. So in the book, I describe some very specific things that sports figures, for example, will use to imagine outcomes successfully. And there are ways in which your brain can be more powerfully stimulated if you imagine biologically. Now, when you do this. Excuse me, when you do this in terms of the virgin diet, what you want to say is, I look like this now, let me imagine how I can look in the future. And you do this in the first person, in the third person, in a way that's believable, that's compatible. And studies show that they're just two kinds of images that actually will improve your confidence and decrease your stress. So, one, you can have images where you're holding up a trophy, where you're coming from behind, where you're drawing up a strategy on a board where you're relaxing. There are a whole bunch of images. And what the studies show is that the most helpful images of all are the images that involve you coming from behind. So you say, my weight is here. I want to get to a place where I've dropped my weight by X and I've improved the quality of food that I'm eating by Y. And already you've engaged two unfocused techniques. Possibility thinking, and then the biology of imagination. Then you might want to realize that motivation itself when it comes to being motivated to completing a diet. A few blessed people can start the diet and end the diet just because they want to and they want to do that. But for the vast majority of us, it's very hard to keep that motivation going. And what actually. The type of motivation that you need to succeed at a diet is actually called creative motivation. And what this means is if you build unfocused periods during your day, 10 minutes of napping, 90 minutes of napping, or what I call psychological Halloweenism, which I'll explain to you in a second, these are things that can actually get you all jazzed to be able to complete the diet and feel motivated throughout that time. Now, psychological Halloweenism is a technique that I named that because there was a study that showed that if you want to be more creative and you embody the full personality of an eccentric poet, you are much more likely to be creative than if you embody the personality of a rigid librarian. And so what we can do at times like this is think of your favorite person. If you're doing the Virgin diet, why wouldn't you think of jj? You know, it's not like you get to have the body you have because you just do nothing. I mean, you're following the things that you're outlining. But when you put yourself literally in JJ's mind, then you start to think, you know, what if she's at the table and she's looking at the bread? Like, I might look at the bread and be like, oh, my God, that looks delicious. But if I put myself in your mindset. I know, because I know you. I know you'll be thinking, yeah, that does look delicious. But what's more important, the deliciousness of that or the well being of you and your body? And so I start to think like you and I start to embody your personality. And this is a fun thing you can do. And in group meetings when you're hanging out with friends at the dinner table. And I think the way to get started with this is to use the app and to say, this week I'm going to start building unfocused into my day. Because I wanted to have possibility thinking. I want to let my brain follow the image of success that I have when I'm following this diet. And I want to have this creative motivation that keeps me going so that I can complete this diet. And once you use the app and you just start with 15 minutes a day.

Okay, how did they find the app? Where's the app?

So I can send you a link for the site. And I do have a special offer right now in which we're just giving the app away free together with a quick start guide when people get the book.

All right, so tell you what we'll do is we will put this all. If you go to jjvirgin.com Tinker we'll put all that info there so you can get, when you get the book, you'll get the app and all this cool stuff. I didn't know you had all this cool stuff because I keep hearing about that going, I need the app, Shreeni. I need the app. I need the app. So cool. We'll make sure that everybody knows how to get the app.

So I'm psyched for people beginning to think about changing their lifestyles and taking care of their brains and letting their brains do the most for them. Because one of the things that I think unfocused does, and this is sort of on the more profound side, is that it really helps you coalesce a sense of purpose. And for so many of us, when we're doing something, we do it and we know we're a little bit off center or it doesn't quite hit the spot. And when you build unfocused into your day, these little bits and pieces of information start to come together and all of a sudden your sense of purpose starts to coalesce. So unfocused will do more than just re energize your brain. It will re energize yourself so that you actually feel fuller about who you are in the world.

Well, what I love here is you actually. I think a lot of us naturally take some of this time and then feel guilty about it. So you actually just removed all my guilt and made me realize that I need to do some of this throughout the day to be more effective, be more productive, and be more creative. So, like, I'm going to go screw off right now for a little while because the doctor ordered it, right? Shreeti. I love that so much. I'm going to throw one curveball over at you, and it is so for you, what's the one thing you do every day that makes the biggest difference in your life?

I actually spend in the morning. One of the things I ask myself is, what do I want that I think is possible? And close my eyes. And then literally, sometimes I'll have a minute. Sometimes I'll have 10 minutes. I actually just say to myself, imagine this like in basically in HD and 3D and put yourself in that position. Because I know that when I'm imagining this, it actually is providing information to my brain's navigator, my gps, to take me to my goal. And I'm not great about this. Every day I do this. On some days, it's the same with some of my meditation. But I think if you can do this on more days than not, you're actually feeding your brain information. Because a lot of us don't realize that all we have to do is really refine the image of what we want, and our brains will take us there. If we're uncertain, the brain is going to be uncertain as well. But the more you refine the image, and this is an image, not words, an image, the more you refine the picture, the more likely it is that your brain will take you to your goals.

All right, I want to remind everyone that we will have@jjvirgen.com Tinker you will find out how you can get that app for free.

Free.

And again, the book in the US Is Tinker Dabble Doodle. Try Unlock the Power of the Unfocused Mind. Although now that I know what it is, in Italy. Oh, my gosh, Dr. Sweetie, that's such a good title. And thank you so much for joining me today. You're so awesome and I miss you. Miss hanging out.

I miss you, too. Thank you.

You're fantastic.

Thanks so much.

All right, now, after the break, I'll be answering a listener's question, so stay with me.

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Welcome back. This is the time where I answer a listener's question. I always try to find one that fits in with what's going on. I've got Leah from Riverside, by the way. We get some customer service email sent in@infojvirgin.com but a lot of these I pulled pull off of comments on my Instagram @jj virgin and Facebook @jj virgin official, especially when I'm doing some of my lives. So if you've got questions, I love if I don't have the answer, going out and finding the answers. So this one's from Leah in Riverside and she goes, jj, I just can't seem to get motivated and I really need to lose weight and get healthy. What do I do? You know, I actually wanted to answer this now because I'm going to give you my standard answer and then think, huh, you know, maybe there actually needs to be some up leveling Based on what Dr. Srini Pillay said today. So you know, one of the things I teach in all of my programs and it's really, you know, it's in the Virgin diets, in the sugar impact diet, it's in both of my online programs. But I really walk you through this in the miracle mindset and it's really the power of purpose. And I think if we're having trouble getting motivated, doing what we really need to do in terms of our health, in terms of our weight, you probably don't have a big enough why making you be courageous enough to go through the pain, discomfort and uncomfortability to get to that goal. So I always start with in all of my programs and I walk through this again in the Miracle mindset book is what's your big why? And most likely whatever you first come up with is not big enough. It's not scary enough, it's not inspiring enough, it's not going to make you push through the pain to go and get it. You know. And so I think back to in the miracle Mindset I tell the story of my son who when he was 16 was hit by a car, literally left for dead in the street. And I had, I went to the, you know, I was living in the hospital basically with him while he was in a coma, but also launching my Virgin diet book, which became a New York Times bestseller. And people like, what? And I go, but I had to. I had to make everything work because I had to be able to support my son as he came through all of this. And so I would look at this and go, all right, Leah, what's your big why, if you need to lose weight, if you need to get healthier, why do you need to do that? What? Because it's not about the weight loss. It's what the weight loss is going to do for you and your friends and your family and your career and your relationship, you know, and your kids. What is it going to do for you? What's the outcome from that? What's the feeling? What is it, you know, you're here now. Where do you want to be? And what is the shift that's going to happen because of that? That's the purpose. That's the why. That's what you've got to really get dialed in. And if you're kind of going, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, grab my miracle mindset book, read it, because that will help you tremendously. All right, now, if you have a question for me, just head on over again to my Facebook page. It's probably the easiest place. Go to J.J. virgin official there. Next up, and this is a part of the miracle mindset too, is the gratitude portion of the show. And this is where I feature a highlight, the review of the week, by the way, we read each and every review on itunes and I say we. I mean, our team does. This is how we get our grades. We take this super seriously. I mean, we're all in it to help make massive transformation out in the world. So when we see these reviews, it really means a lot to us. So I super appreciate you heading on over to itunes and leaving a review. And we especially love five star reviews with kind comments. Those we like the most, I will admit. And so this one's from five star review says really helpful and it's by Shea Fks. And here she says, I found this podcast really informative and motivating while I'm working to get healthier and lose weight. I love the range of topics and amazing guests on the show as well. So super cool. Thank you so much. And I'll tell you, the format now that we've been working on. Today's show obviously was a show with a guest and what I'VE been doing is one show with a guest, one show on a subject and back and forth so that I can dive deep into things that I'm getting more questions about on again either Facebook Live or in my Instagrams or YouTube. So if you're asking questions, if there's something you want to know more about, let me know and I will be do a Facebook live on that so we can dig deeper into it. Okie dokie. This is JJ Virgin signing off. I super appreciate you being here with me and I want to remind you to take courageous, inspired action. Get that big why out there and then use it to help you push through the fear. If you're feeling scared, that just shows that you're playing big enough. All right, until next time. See ya.

Now. Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week, I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything, you'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and visit our website what Should I read next podcast.com to find out more.